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Title: Cal Thomas: Unions, overregulation drove American Dream into a ditch
Source:
SacBee
URL Source: http://www.sacbee.com/opinion/story/1920481.html
Published: Jun 5, 2009
Author: Cal Thomas
Post Date: 2009-06-05 16:06:01 by farmfriend
Keywords: None
Views: 1612
Comments: 137
By Cal Thomas America is asking you to call. Drive your Chevrolet through the USA America's the greatest land of all. Fifty years ago, those words set to music each week on NBC's "The Dinah Shore Show" reflected an America and an automobile industry that is no more. That time and that industry were laid to rest this week when General Motors filed for bankruptcy and the government effectively nationalized GM and Chrysler after wasting billions of our tax dollars on a failed bailout. Despite disclaimers from President Barack Obama that the government doesn't want to be in the car business, it is hard to see what it has bought with our tax dollars other than two of what used to be known as "the big three." Government by default or determination will choose the types of cars the companies it owns will make. Government will buy a lot of them because not enough customers will unless they are made offers they can't refuse, not by a car salesman in a loud sport coat, but by a government bureaucrat in a suit. It's difficult to let go of an American dream. When I was growing up, every kid wanted to drive his own car. Our frugal parents (who had just one car) would let us drive it, but with restrictions, including a set time to bring the car back in the same pristine condition in which we found it. A car was a rite of passage. It conveyed independence and status. Each September we salivated at the prospect of new models. There was always a big buildup and we'd go to the Chevy (or Ford) dealer early on the morning they were for sale. Sometimes they would be covered with sheets and a dramatic unveiling would take place. TV commercials would show parts of new models in a kind of striptease before their debut. Some believe the models between 1955 and 1959, especially the 1957 Chevy Bel Air and the 1958 Impala, are unsurpassed, though Ford devotees have their Mustangs and T-Birds. Pontiac's GTO and some Dodge and Plymouth models were also great. Chrysler had the Imperial, which resembled a boat with running lights, and the New Yorker for "old rich people." And then there was the one beyond our reach, but not beyond our dreams: the Cadillac. The song "Pink Cadillac" became a hit, in part because we saw Elvis in one. America's relationship with its cars has rightly been called a love affair. Though some have tried to replicate the smell of a new car in spray cans, there is nothing quite like the feeling of sinking into new faux leather and later, if you could afford it, the real thing. Much if not all of those thrills will be gone, thanks to greed by the unions, government overregulation and bad management. The customers, who once were always right, have been cheated. All one has to do is look at government-made cars to see they are about as attractive as government art, government architecture, or many other things government does poorly. The Skoda (when the Czechoslovakia communist party made them – they're nice now thanks to free-market capitalism) had its own jokes: "How much is a Skoda worth with a full tank of gas?" Answer: "Twice as much." East Germany's Trabant, a major polluter, was little more than a two-cycle engine encased in the thinnest veneer, and the old Soviet Union cars were about as appealing as a Siberian winter. These are the kinds of cars governments have produced. Obama says all of those laid-off autoworkers will have to "sacrifice" for the sake of their children and grandchildren. So much for their American Dream. If a Republican president had said that, he would have been denounced as insensitive and uncaring. Performance is sweeter Nothing can beat her Life is completer in a Chevy. Not anymore. Bye-bye Miss American Pie; drove my Chevy to the levee but the levee was dry. This is the day GM died.Cal Thomas: Unions, overregulation drove American Dream into a ditch
Published: Friday, Jun. 5, 2009 - 12:00 am | Page 19A See the USA in your Chevrolet
On a highway, or a road along the levee
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#31. To: Deasy (#30)
You do realize that Unions are monopolies.
Good point. But I will say that one bad deed begets another.
Unions started in the pre-WWI era. Are you really arguing that everything is the same now that it was One Hundred Years ago?
Worse, because the dollar is even less reliable than it was then.
So why are you arguing to keep things 100 years in the past and saying "Its probably a good idea" ?
Absolutely true. Abusive labor practices generated labor unions. And yes the unions abused the system.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" No one can "keep" a union except the workers. It's really up to them. If they think it helps them, they'll probably do it. It may hurt them in the long run, but that's how it goes. I'll point out that unions took root after the industrial revolution had turned to militarization, and when we had committed to empire. Around the same time, the Fabians nationalized our public lands and curtailed homesteading. We talk about the symptoms. They just don't matter as much as the root causes do.
That is a profound and accurate observation.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" True... With that view, you surprise me. It is not a knowledgeable, self disciplined, well thought out position to abide. Public servants are just that, working at the will and whim of politicians and their minions. Long ago it was called the "spoils system", a system kept afloat by widespread corruption that used public money as their own private piggy bank. The people demanded change and a promise was made to civil servants, work for so many years and certain age, and you will receive a pension, in return we demand loyalty, we set your wages and working criteria. That left open the opportunity for mischief, in that one could work to near pension time and end up with nothing. Thus Unions.
Mark If America is destroyed, it may be by Americans who salute the flag, sing the national anthem, march in patriotic parades, cheer Fourth of July speakers - normally good Americans who fail to comprehend what is required to keep our country strong and free - Americans who have been lulled into a false security (April 1968).---Ezra Taft Benson, US Secretary of Agriculture 1953-1961 under Eisenhower
thanks for the insult.
We've seen the concept of "working for a living" (you know, for sustenance and prosperity throughout one's life) turned to dust. I've heard so-called "conservatives" lambasting workers who demand a decent retirement pension. If we respect the value of life and property, then we must be willing to compensate people for the portion of their lives they give up in work. To do otherwise is theft. And that's what we see now creeping upward from the poorer classes (who are often the ones to experience it) to the middle class.
That is incorrect given the NLRB and how Union Bosses operate through intimidation. Federal Law protects and enhances Unions. You should look into it some time. In many States, workers have no choice but to join a union and then have little say in what happens to the union dues that they are then forced to pay. For example, the 'benefits' that unions negotiate are typically of a one-size-fits-all type. Like Health Insurance. Where I am, the local teachers' union did a marvelous job of it. You pay $1000 per month or more regardless of how many people you place on the policy. Single people pay $1000. Families of 20 pay $1000. Oh, and did I mention its a closed shop so you have no choice in the matter but to sign on for the whole kit and kaboodle?
You can always look for a job somewhere else, or start your own company.
Funny thing, that. I actually tried that once. The price tag was over $50k before we actually did anything - and that was in Government fees, regulatory compliance matters, and such. Still think that throwing a lot of people "in the way" is a good idea?
So we're back to the original problem, aren't we? You can't fix the problem by addressing the symptoms. Unions are a symptom.
"so called" conservatives? Why is a company required to give you a retirement system? Isn't that your own responsibility? Isn't that what 401Ks are for? Now if a company adds money into a retirement system as part of your wage package fine but to see this as something you are "owed" is ridiculous. Worse if we are talking about government. If a company can't get decent workers at the wage they are offering they will raise the pay. To force this with a union is wrong and to then close it to workers who don't want to join the unions compounds the wrong.
History is replete with volumes written about serfdom and slavery. Something most of us care not to envision.
I didn't offer any details as to how workers should be supported after retirement. It doesn't really matter how it works to me. What's obvious is that more and more people are going into retirement in poverty, and more and more organizations are actively searching for ways they can avoid the problem. It's really just a symptom of a larger issue. We don't hear any real solutions from the left or the right about it, because they have a vested interest in keeping people divided and their attention off the real sources of our problems.
That will be me.
Yet that is what government unions make of me, a slave. I can not put money away for my own retirement because I have to pay for your union coerced retirement. On top of that I'm supposed to believe that the unions were good by protecting you. Sorry, ain't gonna happen.
You and millions of other Americans who were promised the "American dream" if they only worked hard.
Unions are not a symptom. Unions pressure Government to put into place ridiculous rules that restrict competition. They CAUSE problems. Going back, the real solution is to whack Government back to practically nothing, but, over time, it would simply grow back again because pressure groups like Unions would simply re-invent the same crap we have today. Thus, you have to deal with the problems as they arise while chopping back Government. My hope is that the current collapse in tax revenues will cause Government to shrink.
I disagree, and I think this position is part of the phony left/right divide. The left inculcates its adherents that unions are their only recourse to hated capitalists who are out to deprive them of the value of their labor. The right inculcates its adherents into believing that companies have a right to defend themselves against organized labor. Meanwhile, America's industries are collapsing. You all can act out on the stage, pointing fingers at each other, but I'm looking for the man behind the curtain.
You won't find one. There is no single 'man' to track down with all of this. What you will find is a basic fact of human nature; people want others to obey them. Its that simple and it is historical. The SYMPTOM of the problem is the result of this. The CAUSE is people getting together, acting like a biker gang, and shaking others down - legally, of course. The CURE is Liberty. Unions are just gangs of organized thugs.
Until the advent of ...UNIONS...there was but a tiny middle class, very tiny. I can only say I did not enjoy working for 25 cents a day as a child. Oh Yes, I was eight years old and could quit if I did'nt like the pay and working conditions. Indeed. Capitalism and socialism are one and the same, the ruling elite own and operate both to their advantage.
Yeahs, but were you really worth anything more than that Reason the middle-class was so small was very few pepole fit into it.
on a mission from todd.
Summers, during the depression, my dad worked at a family friend's CO ranch for a dollar a day plus his room and board. And thought himself very fortunate to have the job.
And what, all because of "unbridled exuberance?"
I see a more complex variation of this analogy. Some powerful people who own and control the press, can afford to lobby congress, steer the direction of public education, and even influence foreign trade and diplomacy, create the illusion that shakedowns are going to help the ordinary people. They got their wealth by analyzing how our system works and gaming it for a century and a half. Where the shakedown bureaucracies are established, more power is transferred to the powerful people, who manage to steer the shakedown machine toward their affiliated banks when the shakedown machines run out of money. Given a choice between strictly limited government and what we have today, I will take limited government. But I fully understand that the cycle will repeat itself given conditions of "pure liberty." Pure liberty can easily be gamed. What's more, partisan politics can easily distract people from that fact on both sides. The left wants one type of freedom and the right wants another. Meanwhile, we're not really free. We won't be until we learn to think in new ways.
Buggy whips were useful in their day as well.
Farm... Your analogies seem to not hold water.
The managed trade, open borders crowd uses those analogies.
I am NOT a managed trade open borders person. I have a very long reputation for being otherwise. I'm insulted that you would think I was. Instead of arguing the points you have both resorted to insults. Thanks, appreciate it.
I didn't mean to insult you. I'm just reporting what I've seen. Free trade and open borders advocates have used the buggy whip analogy for as long as I can remember.
A letter making the request to State Fund from union local President Yvonne Walker contrasts with an e-mail she sent to members in April. At that time, San Francisco Superior Court Judge Peter Busch had just ruled from the bench that Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger illegally furloughed the 500 State Fund members of the state legal professionals union, CASE. "(State Fund's) so-called independence for decisions about furlough signals a dangerous tone and could do long term damage to the civil service protections enjoyed by (State Fund) employees," Walker said in the April e-mail to members. SEIU did not participate in the CASE lawsuit against State Fund. Now Walker wants fund President Jan Frank to restore full hours and pay to the 5,000 or so SEIU-covered employees at the fund based on the CASE lawsuit, which, she says, didn't include SEIU workers because of "a legal technicality." "Local 1000 attorneys are preparing to file an action against State Fund and the Governor to compel State Fund to comply with the court's judgment should State Fund fail to take immediate action to apply the judgment to employees represented by SEIU Local 1000. I hope that State Fund will take action rendering these steps unnecessary and thereby avoid the time and expense of additional litigation on this subject." You can read Walker's letter to Frank by clicking here. It seems unlikely that SEIU folks at State Fund will get furlough relief with just a letter. CASE members won their lawsuit, but still had to wait weeks for a formal judgment from Busch before the Controller's Office would recalculate their payroll. And now, with that out of the way, the fund's "legal team is reviewing the order and working with DPA the Controller's Office" to apply the ruling, said State Fund spokeswoman Jennifer Vargen. A couple of other issues: We've asked the Controller's Office to confirm that yesterday's judgment means that those CASE employees directly impacted by the ruling will get full pay for June. (Click here for a primer on figuring out the state's payroll change submission deadlines.) From what we can tell, it shouldn't be a problem, but we're checking just to be sure. And how will the fund will make up the lost hours and pay to CASE members? Stay tuned. The lawyers are figuring it out. UPDATE 5:17 P.M.: State Controller's Office spokesman Jacob Roper sent an e-mail reply to our question about whether CASE-covered workers at SEIU will see their checks restored to full pay this month: By Ryan Lillis The vote was 66 percent against, 34 percent in favor, according to the union. Sacramento officials asked that firefighters forgo a 5 percent raise due to them next month in order to slash $5 million from a citywide $50 million deficit for the 2009/10 fiscal year. If an agreement is not reached before the city council meeting on June 16, the city will have to decide whether to cut the fire budget or transfer those cuts onto other departments. Non-public safety departments already face millions in cuts and more than 100 layoffs. The last day for firefighters and other city workers laid off would be June 19. Earlier today, fire union officials charged the city with trying to intimidate members by sending out layoff notices to 68 employees this week, two days before voting on the tentative agreement began. Those pink slips were sent to 50 firefighters whose jobs were in jeopardy, as well as 18 high-ranking fire officials who face demotion. City officials said earlier this week those layoff notices would be rescinded if the fire union agreed to salary concessions. The notices were sent out this week to give at-risk employees three weeks' notice that their jobs could be slashed. June 19 represents the last day of the final pay period of the current fiscal year. Still, union officials questioned the timing of the notices. "There's a great amount of mistrust and now confusion since those pink slips were already issued," union spokeswoman Robin Swanson said. "They're trying to create intimidation. This is a plan that has definitely backfired." I'm just thinking about the economy after these people start spending a lot less money. It's another bubble.
Featuring the original photo captions by Lewis W. Hine. Faces of Lost Youth Left - Furman Owens, 12 years old. Can't read. Doesn't know his A,B,C's. Said, "Yes I want to learn but can't when I work all the time." Been in the mills 4 years, 3 years in the Olympia Mill. Columbia, S.C. Mid - Adolescent girls from Bibb Mfg. Co. in Macon, Georgia. Right - Doffer boys. Macon, Georgia. The Mill Left - A general view of spinning room, Cornell Mill. Fall River, Mass. Mid - A moments glimpse of the outer world. Said she was 11 years old. Been working over a year. Rhodes Mfg. Co. Lincolnton, N.C. Right - Some boys and girls were so small they had to climb up on to the spinning frame to mend broken threads and to put back the empty bobbins. Bibb Mill No. 1. Macon, Ga. Left - One of the spinners in Whitnel Cotton Mill. She was 51 inches high. Has been in the mill one year. Sometimes works at night. Runs 4 sides - 48 cents a day. When asked how old she was, she hesitated, then said, "I don't remember," then added confidentially, "I'm not old enough to work, but do just the same." Out of 50 employees, there were ten children about her size. Whitnel, N.C. Mid - The overseer said apologetically, "She just happened in." She was working steadily. The mills seem full of youngsters who "just happened in" or "are helping sister." Newberry, S.C. Right - Jo Bodeon, a back-roper in the mule room at Chace Cotton Mill. Burlington, Vt. Newsies Left - A small newsie downtown on a Saturday afternoon. St. Louis, Mo. Mid - A group of newsies selling on Capitol steps. Tony, age 8, Dan, 9, Joseph, 10, and John, age 11. Washington, D.C. Right - Tony Casale, age 11, been selling 4 years. Sells sometimes until 10 p.m. His paper told me the boy had shown him the marks on his arm where his father had bitten him for not selling more papers. He (the boy) said, "Drunken men say bad words to us." Hartford, Conn. Left - Out after midnight selling extras. There were many young boys selling very late. Youngest boy in the group is 9 years old. Harry, age 11, Eugene and the rest were a little older. Washington, D.C. Mid - Michael McNelis, age 8, a newsboy [with photographer Hine]. This boy has just recovered from his second attack of pneumonia. Was found selling papers in a big rain storm. Philadelphia, Pa. Right - Francis Lance, 5 years old, 41 inches high. He jumps on and off moving trolley cars at the risk of his life. St. Louis, Mo. Miners Left - At the close of day. Waiting for the cage to go up. The cage is entirely open on two sides and not very well protected on the other two, and is usually crowded like this. The small boy in front is Jo Puma. S. Pittston, Pa. Mid - View of the Ewen Breaker of the Pa. Coal Co. The dust was so dense at times as to obscure the view. This dust penetrated the utmost recesses of the boys' lungs. A kind of slave-driver sometimes stands over the boys, prodding or kicking them into obedience. S. Pittston, Pa. Right - Harley Bruce, a young coupling-boy at Indian Mine. He appears to be 12 or 14 years old and says he has been working there about a year. It is hard work and dangerous. Near Jellico, Tenn. Left - Breaker boys, Hughestown Borough Pa. Coal Co. One of these is James Leonard, another is Stanley Rasmus. Pittston, Pa. Mid - A young driver in the Brown mine. Has been driving one year. Works 7 a.m. to 5:30 p.m. daily. Brown W. Va. Right - Breaker boys. Smallest is Angelo Ross. Pittston, Pa. The Factory Left - View of the Scotland Mills, showing boys who work in mill. Laurinburg, N.C. Mid - 9 p.m. in an Indiana Glass Works. Right - Some of the young knitters in London Hosiery Mills. London, Tenn. Left - Young cigar makers in Engelhardt & Co. Three boys looked under 14. Labor leaders told me in busy times many small boys and girls were employed. Youngsters all smoke. Tampa, Fla. Mid - Boys in the packing room at the Brown Mfg. Co. Evansville, Ind. Right - Willie, a Polish boy, taking his noon rest in a doffer box at the Quidwick Co. Mill. Anthony, R.I. Left - Day scene. Wheaton Glass Works. Boy is Howard Lee. His mother showed me the family record in Bible which gave his birth as July 15, 1894. 15 years old now, but has been in glass works two years and some nights. Millville, N.J. Mid - A boy making melon baskets in a basket factory. Evansville, Ind. Right - Rob Kidd, one of the young workers in a glass factory. Alexandria, Va. Seafood Workers Left - Oyster shuckers working in a canning factory. All but the very smallest babies work. Began work at 3:30 a.m. and expected to work until 5 p.m. The little girl in the center was working. Her mother said she is "a real help to me." Dunbar, La. Mid - Shrimp pickers, including little 8 year old Max on the right. Biloxi, Miss. Right - Johnnie, a nine year old oyster shucker. Man with pipe behind him is a padrone who has brought these people from Baltimore for four years. He is the boss of the shucking shed. Dunbar, La. Left - Manuel the young shrimp picker, age 5, and a mountain of child labor oyster shells behind him. He worked last year. Understands not a word of English. Biloxi, Miss. Mid - Cutting fish in a sardine cannery. Large sharp knives are used with a cutting and sometimes chopping motion. The slippery floors and benches and careless bumping into each other increase the liability of accidents. "The salt water gits into the cuts and they ache," said one boy. Eastport, Me. Right - Hiram Pulk, age 9, working in a canning company. "I ain't very fast only about 5 boxes a day. They pay about 5 cents a box," he said. Eastport, Me. Fruit Pickers Left - A berry field on Rock Creek. Whites and blacks, old and young, work here from 4:30 a.m. to sunset some days. A long hot day. Rock Creek, Md. Mid - Camille Carmo, age 7, and Justine, age 9. The older girl picks about 4 pails a day. Rochester, Mass. Right - Norris Luvitt. Been picking 3 years in berry fields near Baltimore. Little Salesmen Left - After 9 p.m., 7 year old Tommie Nooman demonstrating the advantages of the Ideal Necktie Form in a store window on Pennsylvania Ave. in Washington, D.C. His father said, "He is the youngest demonstrator in America. Has been doing it for several years from San Francisco, to New York. We stay a month or six weeks in a place. He works at it off and on." Remarks from the by-standers were not having the best effect on Tommie. Mid - Joseph Severio, peanut vender, age 11 [seen with photographer Hine]. Been pushing a cart 2 years. Out after midnight on May 21, 1910. Ordinarily works 6 hours per day. Works of his own volution. All earnings go to his father. Wilmington, Del. Right - A young candy seller in Boston, Mass. A Variety of Jobs Left - A Bowery bootblack in New York. Mid - Bowling Alley boys. Many of them work setting pins until past midnight. New Haven, Conn. Right - George Christopher, Postal Telegraph, age 14. Been at it over 3 years. Does not work nights. Nashville, Tenn. Left - A boy carrying hats in New York City. Mid - Young boys working for Hickok Lumber Co. Burlington, Vt. Right - Three young boys with shovels standing in doorway of a Fort Worth & Denver train car. Struggling Families Left - Mrs. Battaglia with Tessie, age 12, and Tony, age 7. Mrs. Battaglia works in a garment shop except on Saturdays, when the children sew with her at home. Get 2 or 3 cents a pair finishing men's pants. Said they earn $1 to $1.50 on Saturday. Father disabled and can earn very little. New York City. Mid - A Jewish family and neighbors working until late at night sewing garters. This happens several nights a week when there is plenty of work. The youngest work until 9 p.m. The others until 11 p.m. or later. On the left is Mary, age 7, and 10 year old Sam, and next to the mother is a 12 year old boy. On the right are Sarah, age 7, next is her 11 year old sister, 13 year old brother. Father is out of work and also helps make garters. New York City. Right - Picking nuts in dirty basement. The dirtiest imaginable children were pawing over the nuts eating lunch on the table. Mother had a cold and blew her nose frequently (without washing her hands) and the dirty handkerchiefs reposed comfortably on table close to the nuts and nut meats. The father picks now. New York City. Pastimes and Vices Left - Teaching the young rider how to start. A common scene in pool rooms. St. Louis, Mo. Mid - Messengers absorbed in their usual game of poker in the "Den of the terrible nine" (the waiting room for Western Union Messengers, Hartford, Conn.). They play for money. Some lose a whole month's wages in a day and then are afraid to go home. The boy on the right has been a messenger for 4 years. Began at 12 years of age. He works all night now. During an evening's conversation he told me stories about his experiences with prostitutes to whom he carries messages frequently. Hartford, Conn. Right - A.D.T. messenger boys. They all smoke. Birmingham, Ala. Left - A group of newsies playing craps in the jail alley at 10 p.m. Albany, N.Y. Mid - 11:00 a.m. Newsies at Skeeter's Branch. They were all smoking. St. Louis, MO. Right - Richard Pierce, age 14, a Western Union Telegraph Co. messenger. Nine months in service, works from 7 a.m. to 6 p.m. Smokes and visits houses of prostitution. Wilmington, Del. Group Portraits Left - Getting working papers in New York City. Mid - Children on the night shift going to work at 6 p.m. on a cold, dark December day. They do not come out again until 6 a.m. When they went home the next morning they were all drenched by a heavy, cold rain and had few or no wraps. Two of the smaller girls with three other sisters work on the night shift and support a big, lazy father who complains he is not well enough to work. He loafs around the country store. The oldest three of these sisters have been in the mill for 7 years, and the two youngest, two years. The latter earns 84 cents a night. Whitnel, N.C. Right - Some of the workers in the Farrand Packing Co. Baltimore, Md. Left - At 5 p.m., boys going home from Monougal Glass Works. One boy remarked, "De place is lousey wid kids." Fairmont, W. Va. Mid - A few of the young workers in the Beaumont Mill. Spartenburg, S.C. Right - Fish cutters at a Canning Co in Maine. Ages range from 7 to 12. They live near the factory. The 7 year old boy in front, Byron Hamilton, has a badly cut finger but helps his brother regularly. Behind him is his brother George, age 11, who cut his finger half off while working. Ralph, on the left, displays his knife and also a badly cut finger. They and many youngsters said they were always cutting themselves. George earns a $1 some days usually 75 cents. Some of the others say they earn a $1 when they work all day. At times they start at 7 a.m. and work all day until midnight. Copyright © 1998 The History Place™ All Rights Reserved
American history has always had a sordid side to it and it seems some people wish to ignore what they never experienced, nor know anything about.
These very stories were used to justify the Federal Reserve. People grew up believing it was protecting them. And then for many, there were no jobs in the Great Depression. And of course the hunger and cold struck children very hard then. When the masters of the universe are making their plans, they forget to build in a failsafe for the children.
At least the country had jobs back then.
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestThe right has only served to protect the monopolies with its union busting.
#32. To: mirage (#31)
#33. To: Deasy (#32)
Good point. But I will say that one bad deed begets another.
#34. To: mirage (#33)
#35. To: Deasy (#34)
Worse, because the dollar is even less reliable than it was then.
#36. To: Cynicom (#25)
It was for self protection that Unions came about.
#37. To: mirage (#35)
#38. To: Deasy (#30)
What passes for the American left or the right: it doesn't matter. The traditional language used to describe political factions and viewpoints all lead back to the same thing: great masses of power and wealth accumulated where it doesn't belong, and moving away from the citizens quickly.
#39. To: farmfriend (#28)
Except the freedom to find a different job if you didn't like the one you had.
#40. To: farmfriend (#0)
#41. To: Cynicom (#39)
It is not a knowledgeable, self disciplined, well thought out position to abide.
A little known fact.... The first testicular guard "Jock strap & Cup" was used in Hockey in 1874 and the first helmet was used in 1974. It took 100 years for men to realize that the brain is also important.
#42. To: Cynicom, farmfriend (#39)
#43. To: Deasy (#37)
No one can "keep" a union except the workers.
#44. To: mirage, farmfriend, Cynicom (#43)
Oh, and did I mention its a closed shop so you have no choice in the matter but to sign on for the whole kit and kaboodle?
#45. To: Deasy (#44)
You can always look for a job somewhere else, or start your own company.
#46. To: mirage (#45)
The price tag was over $50k before we actually did anything - and that was in Government fees, regulatory compliance matters, and such.
#47. To: Deasy, Cynicom (#42)
I've heard so-called "conservatives" lambasting workers who demand a decent retirement pension.
A little known fact.... The first testicular guard "Jock strap & Cup" was used in Hockey in 1874 and the first helmet was used in 1974. It took 100 years for men to realize that the brain is also important.
#48. To: farmfriend (#47)
#49. To: farmfriend (#47)
Why is a company required to give you a retirement system?
#50. To: Deasy (#49)
What's obvious is that more and more people are going into retirement in poverty,
A little known fact.... The first testicular guard "Jock strap & Cup" was used in Hockey in 1874 and the first helmet was used in 1974. It took 100 years for men to realize that the brain is also important.
#51. To: Cynicom (#48)
History is replete with volumes written about serfdom and slavery. Something most of us care not to envision.
A little known fact.... The first testicular guard "Jock strap & Cup" was used in Hockey in 1874 and the first helmet was used in 1974. It took 100 years for men to realize that the brain is also important.
#52. To: farmfriend (#50)
#53. To: Deasy (#46)
You can't fix the problem by addressing the symptoms. Unions are a symptom.
#54. To: mirage (#53)
Unions are not a symptom.
#55. To: Deasy (#54)
You all can act out on the stage, pointing fingers at each other, but I'm looking for the man behind the curtain.
#56. To: farmfriend (#51)
Yet that is what government unions make of me, a slave.
#57. To: Cynicom (#56)
I can only say I did not enjoy working for 25 cents a day as a child. Oh Yes, I was eight years old and could quit if I did'nt like the pay and working conditions. Indeed.
#58. To: Cynicom. fellow slaves (#56)
#59. To: lodwick (#58)
#60. To: mirage (#55)
The CAUSE is people getting together, acting like a biker gang, and shaking others down - legally, of course.
The CURE is Liberty.
Liberty without protection for the interests of the people, will only lead to the same place we are today. The old saying that a democratic society will only remain free until the people discover that they can vote benefits for themselves is incomplete. The main threat in any free society is corporatism. It's a dilemma because no matter who is in power, wealth transfer becomes a part of the process, all in the name of democratic values.
#61. To: Cynicom (#56)
Until the advent of ...UNIONS...there was but a tiny middle class, very tiny.
A little known fact.... The first testicular guard "Jock strap & Cup" was used in Hockey in 1874 and the first helmet was used in 1974. It took 100 years for men to realize that the brain is also important.
#62. To: farmfriend (#61)
#63. To: Cynicom, farmfriend (#62)
#64. To: Deasy, Cynicom, lodwick, IndieTX, Original_Intent, christine, critter, turtle (#63)
The managed trade, open borders crowd uses those analogies.
A little known fact.... The first testicular guard "Jock strap & Cup" was used in Hockey in 1874 and the first helmet was used in 1974. It took 100 years for men to realize that the brain is also important.
#65. To: farmfriend (#64)
#66. To: Deasy, Cynicom, lodwick, IndieTX, Original_Intent, christine, critter, turtle (#64)
UPDATED: SEIU Local 1000: Don't furlough our State Fund members
SEIU Local 1000 wants its represented workers at State Compensation Insurance Fund immediately excluded from twice-monthly furloughs.
Sacramento firefighters reject salary concessions
rlillis@sacbee.com
Published: Friday, Jun. 5, 2009 - 3:16 pm Members of the city's fire union have rejected their tentative agreement on salary concessions, setting the stage for 50 firefighters to be laid off.
A little known fact.... The first testicular guard "Jock strap & Cup" was used in Hockey in 1874 and the first helmet was used in 1974. It took 100 years for men to realize that the brain is also important.
#67. To: farmfriend (#66)
#68. To: farmfriend, mirage, Cynicom (#66)
http://www.historyplace.com/unitedstates/childlabor/
#69. To: Deasy (#68)
#70. To: Cynicom, christine, lodwick (#69)
#71. To: Cynicom (#69)
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