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Science/Tech
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Title: Global Temperature Is Dropping, Not Rising
Source: The New American
URL Source: http://www.thenewamerican.com/index ... h-mainmenu-30/environment/1404
Published: Jul 11, 2009
Author: Ed Hiserodt
Post Date: 2009-07-12 14:22:56 by farmfriend
Ping List: *Agriculture-Environment*     Subscribe to *Agriculture-Environment*
Keywords: None
Views: 386
Comments: 46

Global Temperature Is Dropping, Not Rising

Written by Ed Hiserodt
Saturday, 11 July 2009 19:40

Environmental doomsayers may still be claiming that we must radically reduce carbon-dioxide and other “greenhouse” gas emissions in order to prevent catastrophic global warming, but they cling to that position despite the fact that the warming they’ve been forecasting has not occurred. In fact, the average global temperature has gone down, not up, in recent years.

The graph at this link from icecap.us shows that the average global temperature has been dropping since at least 2002, even though the concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere has been increasing.

A graph based on satellite temperature readings can be found at the appropriately named “algorelied” website. Here the data is put into a 30-year perspective. Markers indicate that the temperature has decreased by 0.74°F (0.39°C) since January 24, 2006. The significance of that date? That’s when Al Gore’s sci-fi-thriller An Inconvenient Truth was released at the Sundance Film Festival. The data showing this cooling trend was taken from thousands of satellite measurements encompassing the entire lower atmosphere of the Earth with an accuracy of 0.01°C. The satellite data is far more accurate than surface temperature measurements, which are limited to the 28 percent of the planet not covered by oceans. (Even in the United States, where one would expect the surface temperature measurements to be more accurate than elsewhere, a recent survey found that only 11 percent of the monitoring stations meet the National Weather Service’s siting requirements.

If we were to extrapolate the change in temperature in the last 42 months since Gore’s movie debut to the year 2100, we would forecast a decrease of 19.9°F (8.8°C) — temperatures not seen since the last Ice Age 12,000 years ago. Is such an extrapolation reliable? Of course not! But that’s the kind of extrapolation game global-warming alarmists like to play.

Still another look at global temperatures and alarmist predictions comes from EPA analyst Alan Carlin, who shows graphically in a March 2009 report (pdf) how IPCC temperature projections and reality diverge. Carlin’s graph is located on page four of his report. As he explains on the following page, the red, purple, and orange lines on his graph show IPCC temperature predictions assuming different emission scenarios; the yellow line shows what the IPCC claims would happen if the CO2 concentration were to remain the same; and the blue and green lines show the actual temperature records based on ground and satellite readings respectively. The blue and green lines — the lines reflecting the actual temperature records — are the only lines dropping instead of climbing on Carlin’s graph. In fact, the actual global temperature has fallen by 0.3°C in just the last three years according to the satellite data.

The EPA document also notes that the actual data conflict with the theory that CO2 causes temperature to rise:

What’s really rather remarkable, is that since 2000, the rates at which CO2 emissions and concentrations are increasing have accelerated. According to Canadell et al. (2008), fossil fuel and cement emissions increased by 3.3 percent per year during 2000-2006, compared to 1.3 percent per year in the 1990s. Similarly, atmospheric CO2 concentrations increased by 1.93 parts per million per year during 2000-2006, compared to 1.58 ppm in the 1990s. And yet, despite accelerating emission rates and concentrations, there's been no net warming in the 21st century, and more accurately, a decline.

And finally some climate tid-bits from the Climate Depot that keeps up with such things:

Why don’t global-warming alarmists address the issue of the recent decline in global temperatures? It raises questions about their real agenda, does it not?


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#4. To: grace_is_by_our_lord (#3)

Just remember that in the last 24 hours you discussed CO2 decreasing in modern times. Why the change of heart?

LOL. No what I said was despite the recent increase we are at historic lows for the planet. We have about 100 ppmv putting us at 380+ ppmv but this is a drop in the bucket compared to past levels.


… in the past CO2 (or water) was pumped, at some cost, into depleting oil and gas fields to get out more. This will continue, but the taxpayer will contribute to these costs as the oil companies will be paid for taking the unwanted stuff off governments emission balance sheets! No wonder the oil companies are keen on CCS…

farmfriend  posted on  2009-07-12   14:50:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: farmfriend (#4)

I found this on an Obama forum

The planet's future: Climate change 'will cause civilisation to collapse'

Authoritative new study sets out a grim vision of shortages and violence – but amid all the gloom, there is some hope too

By Jonathan Owen

Sunday, 12 July 2009

The report praises the web, which it singles out 
as 'the most powerful force for globalisation, democratisation, economic 
growth, and education in history'

reuters

The report praises the web, which it singles out as 'the most powerful force for globalisation, democratisation, economic growth, and education in history'

An effort on the scale of the Apollo mission that sent men to the Moon is needed if humanity is to have a fighting chance of surviving the ravages of climate change. The stakes are high, as, without sustainable growth, "billions of people will be condemned to poverty and much of civilisation will collapse".

This is the stark warning from the biggest single report to look at the future of the planet – obtained by The Independent on Sunday ahead of its official publication next month. Backed by a diverse range of leading organisations such as Unesco, the World Bank, the US army and the Rockefeller Foundation, the 2009 State of the Future report runs to 6,700 pages and draws on contributions from 2,700 experts around the globe. Its findings are described by Ban Ki-moon, Secretary-General of the UN, as providing "invaluable insights into the future for the United Nations, its member states, and civil society".

The impact of the global recession is a key theme, with researchers warning that global clean energy, food availability, poverty and the growth of democracy around the world are at "risk of getting worse due to the recession". The report adds: "Too many greedy and deceitful decisions led to a world recession and demonstrated the international interdependence of economics and ethics."

Although the future has been looking better for most of the world over the past 20 years, the global recession has lowered the State of the Future Index for the next 10 years. Half the world could face violence and unrest due to severe unemployment combined with scarce water, food and energy supplies and the cumulative effects of climate change.

And the authors of the report, produced by the Millennium Project – a think-tank formerly part of the World Federation of the United Nations Associations – set out a number of emerging environmental security issues. "The scope and scale of the future effects of climate change – ranging from changes in weather patterns to loss of livelihoods and disappearing states – has unprecedented implications for political and social stability."

But the authors suggest the threats could also provide the potential for a positive future for all. "The good news is that the global financial crisis and climate change planning may be helping humanity to move from its often selfish, self-centred adolescence to a more globally responsible adulthood... Many perceive the current economic disaster as an opportunity to invest in the next generation of greener technologies, to rethink economic and development assumptions, and to put the world on course for a better future."

Scientific and technological progress continues to accelerate. IBM promises a computer at 20,000 trillion calculations per second by 2011, which is estimated to be the speed of the human brain. And nanomedicine may one day rebuild damaged cells atom by atom, using nanobots the size of blood cells. But technological progress carries its own risks. "Globalisation and advanced technology allow fewer people to do more damage and in less time, so that possibly one day a single individual may be able to make and deploy a weapon of mass destruction."

The report also praises the web, which it singles out as "the most powerful force for globalisation, democratisation, economic growth, and education in history". Technological advances are cited as "giving birth to an interdependent humanity that can create and implement global strategies to improve the prospects for humanity".

The immediate problems are rising food and energy prices, shortages of water and increasing migrations "due to political, environmental and economic conditions", which could plunge half the world into social instability and violence. And organised crime is flourishing, with a global income estimated at $3 trillion – twice the military budgets of all countries in the world combined.

The effects of climate change are worsening – by 2025 there could be three billion people without adequate water as the population rises still further. And massive urbanisation, increased encroachment on animal territory, and concentrated livestock production could trigger new pandemics.

Although government and business leaders are responding more seriously to the global environmental situation, it continues to get worse, according to the report. It calls on governments to work to 10-year plans to tackle growing threats to human survival, targeting particularly the US and China, which need to apply the sort of effort and resources that put men on the Moon.

"This is not only important for the environment; it is also a strategy to increase the likelihood of international peace. Without some agreement, it will be difficult to get the kind of global coherence needed to address climate change seriously."

While the world has the resources to address its challenges, coherence and direction have been lacking. Recent meetings of the US and China, as well as of Nato and Russia, and the birth of the G20 plus the continued work of the G8 promise to improve global strategic collaboration, but "it remains to be seen if this spirit of co-operation can continue and if decisions will be made on the scale necessary to really address the global challenges discussed in this report".

Although the scale of the effects of climate change are unprecedented, the causes are generally known, and the consequences can largely be forecast. The report says, "coordination for effective and adequate action is yet incipient, and environmental problems worsen faster than response or preventive policies are being adopted".

Jerome Glenn, director of the Millennium Project and one of the report's authors, said: "There are answers to our global challenges, but decisions are still not being made on the scale necessary to address them. Three great transitions would help both the world economy and its natural environment – to shift as much as possible from freshwater agriculture to saltwater agriculture; produce healthier meat without the need to grow animals; and replace gasoline cars with electric cars."

Jethro Tull  posted on  2009-07-12   14:53:04 ET  (15 images) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: farmfriend (#4)

I suppose ice melts with some new phenomena other than temperatures rising?

"This planet can easily sustain far more than 6.7 Billion people. It's a big planet. There's an endless supply of oil. More water than we need and ample room to grow all the food required plus more." -- wudidiz, circa July 12, 2009

grace_is_by_our_lord  posted on  2009-07-12   14:54:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Jethro Tull. all (#5)

...produce healthier meat without the need to grow animals...

Hello - earth to moonbeam.

Notice how the catch-phrase has had to change from global warming to climate change.

The warming dog was no longer able to hunt.

Iran Truth Now!

Lod  posted on  2009-07-12   15:02:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: grace_is_by_our_lord (#6)

Yes, ice melts in the heat of the summer, and it reforms in the cold of the winter.

Iran Truth Now!

Lod  posted on  2009-07-12   15:04:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: lodwick (#8)

LOL ... obviously you aren't aware that the Arctic is now an island. Moreover, international trans-world shipping lanes between Europe and Canada are being planned. The Arctic is almost gone.

"This planet can easily sustain far more than 6.7 Billion people. It's a big planet. There's an endless supply of oil. More water than we need and ample room to grow all the food required plus more." -- wudidiz, circa July 12, 2009

grace_is_by_our_lord  posted on  2009-07-12   15:07:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: lodwick (#7)

The warming dog was no longer able to hunt.

How can you say that, Loddy??? You & Chrissy are fryin' like eggs down there!

The only thing that will save you is O'boingo's taxes. Submit to the power of the One True Messiah! Pay up sucker!

And you better hurry up about it before all your trees end up kiln-dried while still in the ground.

Godfrey Smith: Mike, I wouldn't worry. Prosperity is just around the corner.
Mike Flaherty: Yeah, it's been there a long time. I wish I knew which corner.
My Man Godfrey (1936)

Esso  posted on  2009-07-12   15:14:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: grace_is_by_our_lord (#6)

I suppose ice melts with some new phenomena other than temperatures rising?

Actually yes. According to NASA it was due to a change in ocean currents and wind. I can get you the links if you wish. Currently ice is increasing.

The Cryosphere Today - Compare Daily Sea Ice

their main page


… in the past CO2 (or water) was pumped, at some cost, into depleting oil and gas fields to get out more. This will continue, but the taxpayer will contribute to these costs as the oil companies will be paid for taking the unwanted stuff off governments emission balance sheets! No wonder the oil companies are keen on CCS…

farmfriend  posted on  2009-07-12   15:22:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: grace_is_by_our_lord. all (#9)

Moreover, international trans-world shipping lanes between Europe and Canada are being planned. The Arctic is almost gone.

I guess that we'll just soldier on without it then.

Iran Truth Now!

Lod  posted on  2009-07-12   15:22:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: farmfriend (#0)

Great polar melt-off feared

By William Mullen
March 19, 2009
For the last 5 million years, the frozen polar ends of the Earth have melted on a regular basis, raising sea levels dramatically to heights that, if achieved today, would inundate most of the world’s major cities and coastal areas where billions of people live.

Scientists studying those polar freeze/thaw cycles reported in two papers in Thursday’s edition of the research journal Nature that it appears Earth is headed toward another thaw—and this time, it’s being hurried along by carbon dioxide pollution in the atmosphere.

The research dealt specifically with the ice sheets that sit atop West Antarctica, which contain enough water that world sea levels would rise 16 feet if it all melted. Such a thaw would take a thousand years at least, a long time in human terms but a blink in geological time.

The new papers both drew on core samples extracted from the Antarctic Ocean floor in 2006 as part of the ANDRILL project, one of the largest scientific undertakings ever for the continent. The project involved 53 scientists and was co-directed by Northern Illinois University geologist Ross Powell.

By examining millions of years’ worth of sediments, researchers found that the ice in West Antarctica collapsed and melted about every 40,000 years during the Pliocene epoch 3 to 5 million years ago—a time when there were warm spells “similar to those projected to occur over the next century,” Powell said.

When the polar ice began melting on a massive scale, atmospheric carbon dioxide levels were up to around 400 parts per million, Powell said. “We are now at 386 parts per million and rising,” he said, and it grows by one part per million every year.

The concern, he said, is that the current rise in carbon dioxide levels—driven by human activity over the last 200 years, mostly the burning of fossil fuels—is causing unprecedented global warming and putting West Antarctica on the fast track to melting.

The Earth’s average annual temperature has risen 1.4 degrees Fahrenheit in the last 100 years, but over Antarctica, which holds 70 percent of the world’s fresh water as ice, it has risen 4.5 degrees.

“Even if it might take a thousand years or more for the West Antarctic Ice Sheet to disappear, the melting before then could be significant enough that humans should really be taking note … as we worry about our future generations,” Powell said.

Natural polar freeze/thaw cycles occur because of a periodic shift in the tilt of the Earth’s axis, known as the Milankovitch Cycle.

“The tilting changes the amount of radiation absorbed into each hemisphere of the Earth, depending on which hemisphere is tilted closest to the sun,” said Powell. With the change comes a gradual buildup of atmospheric carbon dioxide that ANDRILL records show eventually caused drastic loss of ice in West Antarctica.

But now, human activity appears to be having its own effect on the world’s climate by driving temperatures higher than they otherwise would be, said Northern Illinois University geologist Reed Scherer, also on the ANDRILL research team. Some climatologists believe global temperatures should even be slightly cooling at this time.

“If something is an external cycle, it should be predictable,” Scherer said. “But it is much more complicated than that, and we seem to be throwing the pattern off balance now.”

Also in Nature was a report from David Pollard of Pennsylvania State University and Robert DeConto of the University of Massachusetts, who used ANDRILL data to simulate Antarctic ice sheet variations over the past 5 million years.

The two climate modelers found that the ice sheet atop West Antarctica could move between full, intermediate and collapsed states over only a few thousand years.

Today, even a partial melt-off raising sea levels by 4 feet would put at risk an estimated half a billion people who live along shorelines.

DeConto said warming ocean temperatures play a key role in how fast polar ice melts, both the ice sheets and the floating ice shelves to which they are attached. The shelves extend for miles into the ocean around Antarctica.

“The next big step,” said DeConto, “is to determine what is happening to the ocean temperatures under the ice shelves and around the ice sheet. We really need that information.”

wmullen@tribune.com

"This planet can easily sustain far more than 6.7 Billion people. It's a big planet. There's an endless supply of oil. More water than we need and ample room to grow all the food required plus more." -- wudidiz, circa July 12, 2009

grace_is_by_our_lord  posted on  2009-07-12   15:25:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: grace_is_by_our_lord (#13)

We are just coming out of the ice age that was caused by the flood. Nevermind you are just a taker of the lords name in vain.

Old Friend  posted on  2009-07-12   15:32:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Old Friend (#14)

What flood and which Ice Age?

"This planet can easily sustain far more than 6.7 Billion people. It's a big planet. There's an endless supply of oil. More water than we need and ample room to grow all the food required plus more." -- wudidiz, circa July 12, 2009

grace_is_by_our_lord  posted on  2009-07-12   15:35:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: grace_is_by_our_lord. all (#13)

Today, even a partial melt-off raising sea levels by 4 feet would put at risk an estimated half a billion people who live along shorelines.

The most outrageous of all the warmers' lies.

Water as a liquid displaces less space than it does when frozen. Check your own freezer if you doubt this reality of physics.

Iran Truth Now!

Lod  posted on  2009-07-12   15:37:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: grace_is_by_our_lord (#13)

First you will notice that they specifically address only West Antarctica. Why is that? Because ice is increasing in Antarctica because temps have been getting colder there. The ONLY place in Antarctica that has shown ANY warming is the western peninsula. The ice sheet that shattered there recently is in a horseshoe shaped bay and can not calve as most glaciers do. This builds up pressure when ice increases and it shatters like a piece of glass relieving the pressure. Check the satellite photos.

The two climate modelers found that the ice sheet atop West Antarctica could move between full, intermediate and collapsed states over only a few thousand years.

Computer models are not scietific studies.


… in the past CO2 (or water) was pumped, at some cost, into depleting oil and gas fields to get out more. This will continue, but the taxpayer will contribute to these costs as the oil companies will be paid for taking the unwanted stuff off governments emission balance sheets! No wonder the oil companies are keen on CCS…

farmfriend  posted on  2009-07-12   15:37:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: Esso (#10)

Yes, central and south Texas have stolen the rest of the world's heat this summer.

Iran Truth Now!

Lod  posted on  2009-07-12   15:42:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: lodwick (#16)

You don't seem to understand scientific fact much less common sense. Lets suppose you have an ice cube suspended above the surface of water in a bowl. As it melts (that is to say the height above the water level decreases) the overall water level increases.

"This planet can easily sustain far more than 6.7 Billion people. It's a big planet. There's an endless supply of oil. More water than we need and ample room to grow all the food required plus more." -- wudidiz, circa July 12, 2009

grace_is_by_our_lord  posted on  2009-07-12   15:46:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: lodwick (#18)

We have used AC two days this year instead of usual two months.

Cynicom  posted on  2009-07-12   15:47:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: grace_is_by_our_lord (#19)

You don't seem to understand scientific fact much less common sense. Lets suppose you have an ice cube suspended above the surface of water in a bowl. As it melts (that is to say the height above the water level decreases) the overall water level increases.

Floating ice melting does not change the water surface level at all.


… in the past CO2 (or water) was pumped, at some cost, into depleting oil and gas fields to get out more. This will continue, but the taxpayer will contribute to these costs as the oil companies will be paid for taking the unwanted stuff off governments emission balance sheets! No wonder the oil companies are keen on CCS…

farmfriend  posted on  2009-07-12   15:49:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: farmfriend (#17)

What is a scientific study then? I mean can't computer models reveal treand analysis similar to mathematical statistical models which tie your automobile insurance rate of payment to your local area?

"This planet can easily sustain far more than 6.7 Billion people. It's a big planet. There's an endless supply of oil. More water than we need and ample room to grow all the food required plus more." -- wudidiz, circa July 12, 2009

grace_is_by_our_lord  posted on  2009-07-12   15:54:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: farmfriend (#21)

But I didn't say it floating. I said it was suspended above the surface of the water. Anartica's ice shelf lays on hard rock above the current level of the ocean.

"This planet can easily sustain far more than 6.7 Billion people. It's a big planet. There's an endless supply of oil. More water than we need and ample room to grow all the food required plus more." -- wudidiz, circa July 12, 2009

grace_is_by_our_lord  posted on  2009-07-12   15:55:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: grace_is_by_our_lord (#22)

I mean can't computer models reveal treand analysis similar to mathematical statistical models which tie your automobile insurance rate of payment to your local area?

If they knew everything to input and if they weren't guessing at half of what they input yes. But this is not the case.A prime example is the fact that the models didn't predict the recent cooling.

The sun drives our climate plain and simple. Recent solar activity has been the highest in 1000 years. Cycle 22 and 23 were extremely active. Cycle 24 is not and more closely matches cycles during the Dalton minimum.

JUNE BREAKING NEWS: THE CYCLE GOES AT THE MOMENT BELOW DALTON LEVEL.

The yearly spot value of 2007 was already only 7.6 which is below the previous minimum in 1996 (with 8.6). The value dropped to 2.6 in 2008 and the smoothed value at the moment is 1.7 (December 2008). (In December 2007 it was 5.0 .) We must go to the year 1913 to find a lower smoothed value (1.5). The November 2008 value means that the cycle 23 has at least a length of 12.6 years.

There has been only 2 cycles since 1749 longer than the cycle 23, the cycle 4 (1784-1798) just before the Dalton minimum and the cycle 6 (1810-1823 or the second of the Dalton cycles). The cycle 9 (1843-1856) had about the same length as we have now achieved (12.5 years). It began the series of 5 Jovian cycles and a cool climate in 1856-1913 (the Damon minimum).

Now what do we have: 1. Livingston-Penn observations that the magnetic strength of the sunspots irrespective of their amount has linearly declined since at least 1990 leading the spots vanishing in 2014 or 2015 if the trend continues. 2. A 50-year low in solar wind pressure: Measurements by the Ulysses spacecraft reveal a 20% drop in solar wind pressure since the mid-1990’s. 3. A 12 year low in solar irradiance: the sun’s brightness has dropped a whopping 6% at extreme UV wavelengths since the solar minimum of 1996. 4. A 55-year low in solar radio wavelengths. The lessening of radio emissions seems to be an indication of weakness in the sun’s global magnetic field. 5. The all-time low (since Maunder minimum) of Gleissberg cycle in 2005 (72 years). 6. Ap Index very low. 7. TSI (Total Solar Irradiance) at its lowest since satellite observations began in 1979 (1365 Watts).

Autocorrelation of the sunspots since 1760 gives the highest correlation as 210 years. The Dalton minimum began in 1798.

The yearly sunspotnumbers of 1795-1798 were 21, 16, 6.4 and 4.1, the corresponding values for 2005-2008 were 30, 15, 7.6 and 2.8. The first full Dalton year or 1799, had a SSN value of 6.8. The SSN of the first 6 months of 2009 is 1.7.


… in the past CO2 (or water) was pumped, at some cost, into depleting oil and gas fields to get out more. This will continue, but the taxpayer will contribute to these costs as the oil companies will be paid for taking the unwanted stuff off governments emission balance sheets! No wonder the oil companies are keen on CCS…

farmfriend  posted on  2009-07-12   16:01:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: grace_is_by_our_lord (#23)

Anartica's ice shelf lays on hard rock above the current level of the ocean.

Huh.

I didn't know that.

Iran Truth Now!

Lod  posted on  2009-07-12   16:04:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: farmfriend (#21)

Antarctic glaciers melting more quickly

David Perlman, Chronicle Science Editor

Saturday, January 26, 2008

Antarctica's massive coastal glaciers are quickly melting into the sea as the oceans around the continent grow warmer - and the pace of ice loss is speeding up.

An international satellite network measuring the thickness of the glaciers as they shrink year by year has found that the glaciers have melted so rapidly during the past 10 years that the continent is losing almost as much ice as Greenland, according to researchers gathering the satellite data.

The team from Chile, England and the Netherlands is led by Eric Rignot, a radar engineer and glacier specialist at UC Irvine and NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory who has watched the shrinking glaciers and gathered data for the past 15 years from Canadian, Japanese and European polar-orbiting satellites.

Those satellites carry radar instruments that can measure the thickness of each glacier with remarkable accuracy, and they have now mapped more than 85 percent of the entire coastline of Antarctica, covering all the continent's major glaciers.

Unlike Greenland's coastal glaciers, where meltwater from the ice on the surface seeps down to the base of each glacier and lubricates it to speed its flow to the sea, the glaciers on Antarctica move down from the land as huge ice sheets and spread out over the ocean, where the thick glaciers are known as ice shelves.

For many years, scientists have watched some of these giant ice shelves breaking apart and crashing into the sea, and now more and more of them are melting as they move out over the ocean.

The cause: Antarctic waters like the Bellingshausen and Amundsen seas are warming, and as their water temperatures rise they melt the undersides of the ice sheets so the sheets become thinner and the seas intrude farther and farther inland - to melt still more of the ice, Rignot explained in a phone interview.

Although the effect of all this ice loss on global sea levels is still small - measured in a rise of only a few thousands of an inch each year so far from the melting in Antarctica - that increase has nearly doubled in the past 10 years, he estimated.

"We're concerned that the rate of glacier melting will double rapidly," Rignot said.

Ice loss is most pronounced in Antarctica's Pine Island Bay region, where three major glaciers are losing ice fast, and on the northern tip of the Antarctic Peninsula, Rignot and his colleagues reported.

Glaciers in those two regions alone lost about 212 billion tons of ice from 1996 to 2006 - an amount very similar to the total loss of ice on Greenland, Rignot and his team calculated.

The east coast of the Antarctic Peninsula is where two major ice shelves - called Larsen A and Larsen B - disintegrated in 1995 and 2002. Those immense events were among the most convincing early signals that global warming is real and dangerous.

The researchers calculated the increase in mass of the glaciers as snow has piled up on them, and compared those numbers with the losses due to melting into the sea. The calculations yield what Rignot and his colleagues term the "ice sheet mass balance," and the overall result is increasingly negative, they report.

"Large uncertainties remain in predicting Antarctica's future contribution to sea level rise," Rignot said.

"The ice sheets are responding faster to climate change than (anyone) anticipated," he said.

E-mail David Perlman at dperlman@sfchronicle.com.

"This planet can easily sustain far more than 6.7 Billion people. It's a big planet. There's an endless supply of oil. More water than we need and ample room to grow all the food required plus more." -- wudidiz, circa July 12, 2009

grace_is_by_our_lord  posted on  2009-07-12   16:07:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: lodwick (#26)

Please read above.

"This planet can easily sustain far more than 6.7 Billion people. It's a big planet. There's an endless supply of oil. More water than we need and ample room to grow all the food required plus more." -- wudidiz, circa July 12, 2009

grace_is_by_our_lord  posted on  2009-07-12   16:09:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: lodwick (#25)

I see by the weather map that Texas is being char broiled. Just maybe God is getting you Texas sinners prepared??????? hehehehehehehehehehe

I did summers of 50/51 in Texas, I knew then that God was unhappy with Texans.

Cynicom  posted on  2009-07-12   16:15:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: grace_is_by_our_lord, farm friend, all (#27)

Before hitting the Ignore Thread hammer here, thanks to everyone for all the information that is gathering about our planet.

The mystery remains: how can we have empirical evidence that we have been cooling for over ten years now, and also have empirical evidence that the ice-melting at both poles (and elsewhere) is accelerating?

For whatever reason, it seems that the various oceans and seas, are warming and causing the melts.

Iran Truth Now!

Lod  posted on  2009-07-12   16:29:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: Cynicom (#28) (Edited)

I did summers of 50/51 in Texas, I knew then that God was unhappy with Texans.

Even as a child of 4/5, I remember those summers.

It was so hot and dry that the land would have cracks big enough for the cattle to step in and break a leg. The cattle that were not sold had to be hayed both summer and winter those years.

'Showers of Blessings' was the number one tune in many churches down here.

Iran Truth Now!

Lod  posted on  2009-07-12   16:35:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: grace_is_by_our_lord (#26)

The east coast of the Antarctic Peninsula is where two major ice shelves - called Larsen A and Larsen B - disintegrated in 1995 and 2002.

The peninsula sticks out into warm water. Like the arctic, ocean currents are the main cause of ice changes. Certainly there is some uncertainty. But there is no question that hundreds of years will be needed for any significant ice loss in either Greenland or Antarctica. The glaciers in Greenland are all now slowing down after spurting forward in the late 90's, particularly during the strong El Nino in 1998. The rate on the biggest glaciers is back to pre 1997. See for example http://jennifermarohasy.com/blog/2009/01/no-reporting-of-slowing-greenland-glaciers-shame-on-the-msm/

It is much wiser to wait 100 years or so and see if we need to do anything then.

Money problems do not come from a lack of money, but from living an excessive, unrealistic lifestyle

purpleman  posted on  2009-07-12   16:49:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: lodwick (#29)

also have empirical evidence that the ice-melting at both poles (and elsewhere) is accelerating?

Glacier speed in Greenland is slowing greatly (see my previous link). It was one of the most ignored stories in all of climate study late last year.

Money problems do not come from a lack of money, but from living an excessive, unrealistic lifestyle

purpleman  posted on  2009-07-12   16:51:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: lodwick (#29)

For whatever reason, it seems that the various oceans and seas, are warming and causing the melts.

Actually the seas are starting to cool as well. ENSO and PDO are both in cooling phases.


… in the past CO2 (or water) was pumped, at some cost, into depleting oil and gas fields to get out more. This will continue, but the taxpayer will contribute to these costs as the oil companies will be paid for taking the unwanted stuff off governments emission balance sheets! No wonder the oil companies are keen on CCS…

farmfriend  posted on  2009-07-12   17:11:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: farmfriend (#0)

Why don’t global-warming alarmists address the issue of the recent decline in global temperatures? It raises questions about their real agenda, does it not?

Then they'd have to be global-cooling alarmists.

There'd be a global governance to deal with global-cooling instead of global-warming

.


"This planet can easily sustain far more than 6.7 Billion people. It's a big planet. There's an endless supply of oil. More water than we need and ample room to grow all the food required plus more." -- wudidiz, circa July 12, 2009 (I think the world of this by-line. It's just too kewl. ~grace_is_by_our_lord)

wudidiz  posted on  2009-07-12   17:16:51 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: purpleman (#32)

Glacier speed in Greenland is slowing greatly

Until that stupid f**ker w/a flaregun, eh?

No matter what
we get out of this
I know we'll
never forget.

In 2007, the FBI reported on concern about white supremacists recruiting soldiers, saying "hundreds" of neo-Nazis were in the active military. But in April, a Department of Homeland Security report on extremism that reiterated much the same point was widely criticized by veterans groups and some conservative politicians as being unpatriotic, leading the Justice Department to retract the DHS report.

Critics acknowledge that extremism in the Army is a touchy political subject.

Dakmar  posted on  2009-07-12   17:28:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: wudidiz (#34)

Then they'd have to be global-cooling alarmists.

There'd be a global governance to deal with global-cooling instead of global-warming

Oh man, a return to the 70s. Yikes!


… in the past CO2 (or water) was pumped, at some cost, into depleting oil and gas fields to get out more. This will continue, but the taxpayer will contribute to these costs as the oil companies will be paid for taking the unwanted stuff off governments emission balance sheets! No wonder the oil companies are keen on CCS…

farmfriend  posted on  2009-07-12   17:55:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: grace_is_by_our_lord (#15)

What flood and which Ice Age?

Nevermind your not smart enough. Go rant about Bush.

Old Friend  posted on  2009-07-12   18:58:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: lodwick (#30)

It was so hot and dry that the land would have cracks big enough for the cattle to step in and break a leg.

From there I won an all expense paid tour of Guam where it rained ten times a day and the humidity was 110 per cent.

I think I had loser stamped on my forehead.

Cynicom  posted on  2009-07-12   19:52:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Cynicom (#38)

I think I had loser stamped on my forehead.

I think that your tombstone should have 'Winner' in there somewhere.

You did what was 'required' at the time, you survived, and now you see the light.

A loser, you are not.

Iran Truth Now!

Lod  posted on  2009-07-12   20:50:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: grace_is_by_our_lord, farmfriend (#23) (Edited)

But I didn't say it floating. I said it was suspended above the surface of the water. Anartica's ice shelf lays on hard rock above the current level of the ocean.

Except that the Antarctic Ice Sheet is growing. The measured thickness of the Ice Sheet has increased over the last several years and is now back at 1970's levels. A few icebergs breaking off does not diminish that fact. Because the PsyOps media selectively plays pro-GloBULL Warming Sensationalism and selectively omits "Inconvenient Truths" is also a known fact.

GloBULL Warming is just that BULL. That is why you see all of the major Propaganda Outlets now touting "Global Climate Change" as the new Propaganda Tag. As always follow the money. The "Carbon Tax" money would go to the usual suspects - the Banksters who are already looting the treasury and Algore stands to make a lot of filthy lucre with his Carbon Trading Company - while real environmental problems - depletion of aquifers, toxic residues getting into the water table, sulfur and mercury emissions from coal fired power plants, etc., are buried under the phony premise that we are creating too much CO2 (which is used by plants in their respiratory cycle and more CO2 benefits farming and tree growth) which is a beneficial gas. Our atmospheric CO2 levels are at a historical low. During the Cretaceous and Tertiary Eras the CO2 levels were much higher.

"I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician

Original_Intent  posted on  2009-07-13   0:25:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: farmfriend, grace_is_by_our_lord, lodwick, christine, Cynicom, Wudidiz, All (#24)

Lots of good data on the reality of Global COOLING:

ICE AGE NOW

"I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician

Original_Intent  posted on  2009-07-13   0:42:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: Original_Intent (#41)

"My choice early in life was either to be a piano player in a whorehouse or a politician. And to tell the truth, there's hardly any difference." - President Harry S. Truman

Hahahahahahaha....


"This planet can easily sustain far more than 6.7 Billion people. It's a big planet. There's an endless supply of oil. More water than we need and ample room to grow all the food required plus more." -- wudidiz, circa July 12, 2009 (I think the world of this by-line. It's just too kewl. ~grace_is_by_our_lord)

wudidiz  posted on  2009-07-13   1:57:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: Original_Intent, lodwick, farmfriend, wuditiz (#40)

Because the PsyOps media selectively plays pro-GloBULL Warming Sensationalism and selectively omits "Inconvenient Truths" is also a known fact.

"This planet can easily sustain far more than 6.7 Billion people. It's a big planet. There's an endless supply of oil. More water than we need and ample room to grow all the food required plus more." -- wudidiz, circa July 12, 2009

grace_is_by_our_lord  posted on  2009-07-14   0:43:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: wudidiz (#42)

I think I'd rather be the piano player. I likes girls.

"I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician

Original_Intent  posted on  2009-07-14   2:08:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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