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Title: Pastor Hagee in Washington Today..Says World will end in 20 Years
Source: [None]
URL Source: [None]
Published: Jul 23, 2009
Author: By Stephen K. Ryan
Post Date: 2009-07-23 19:31:12 by Brian S
Keywords: None
Views: 1958
Comments: 122

John Hagee brings his show to Washington D.C. this week.

Over 4,000 Christians are gathering in Washington this week to advocate for Israel  and simultaneously the end of times on Capitol Hill.

The fourth annual summit of Christians United for Israel (CUFI) has brought together Christian leaders and supporters of Israel from around the country, starting Monday and continuing through Wednesday. Pastor  Hagee, and his new political action committee, Christians United for Israel (CUFI) launched in 2006, represents perhaps the most peculiar cast of characters ever assembled in Washington D.C.    Many Washington insiders have great difficulty getting their arms around the whole CUFI phenomenon.    CUFI is a tremendous supporter of Israel,  yet its founder, John Hagee, a former anti-catholic bigot and current megaTV evangelist,   has his flock pray,  if not for Israel's nuclear annihilation, certainly some sort of end of times catastrophe involving Jerusalem.

Pastor Hagee is on the record saying he hopes to deliver his followers  to heaven in a biblical moment of Rapture. What is so confounding to many are Pastor Hagee's pronouncements and prophesies,  which are clearly at Israel's expense,  yet Rev. Hagee is cheered on, unbelievably, by prominent Jewish leaders like ex-VP candidate and US Senator Joe Lieberman and TV commentator William Kristol. Senator Lieberman went so far as to call Mr. Hagee some kind of modern day "Moses"

Here  is what Mr. Hagee had to say on CNN in an interview with Glen Beck.

HAGEE: Well, there are ten Bible signs that we`re living in the end of days 

CNN Glen BECK: End of the world as we know it in five years, 10 years, 20years? 

John HAGEE: I don`t think we`ll get past 20 years.   

for complete transcript  click http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0710/12/gb.01.html 

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 104.

#2. To: Brian S, all (#0)

Hagee is so full of shit.

Not the angels, not the Son, but only the Father knows the 'time.'

Lod  posted on  2009-07-23   19:49:01 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Not the angels, not the Son, but only the Father knows the 'time.'

That is true lodwick. But he didn't say it would be 20 years. He was guessing about 20 years after a direct question was put to him. Even though you are exactly 100 percent right that we don't know the exact time. We do know when it is near by the signs. The bible even talks about you will know it is near when x x and x happen. That it is the season. Matthew chapter 24 is a good read. Disclaimer. I don't mean to stick up for Hagee but people should be accurate. There is plenty of accurate ways to describe Hagee.

A K A Stone  posted on  2009-07-23   20:10:44 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Matthew chapter 24 is a good read.

Yes my little zionist once again quoting from the Scoefield Reference Bible

This might come as a shock to many serious, Bible-believing Christians, but the doctrine of dispensationalism was totally unknown to the Puritans, Pilgrims, Congregationalists, Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians and others who were the early religious settlers of our nation. It was unknown to our founding fathers who were Christians. In fact, it was an unknown doctrine until the middle of the 19th century, yet almost all fundamental Christian denominations are espousing this product of John Nelson Darby and Dr. C. I. Scofield.

Basically, the idea that national Israel has a key role in all end times events, that Israel must exist as a nation to bring about the end of this present age and the second advent of Christ comes straight out of the dispensational handbook as written by Dr. Scofield and promulgated by Dallas Theological Seminary. No such ideas ever prevailed in the early Church, the Reformation, or the Christian faith as practiced in the first hundred years of this nation's existence.

Darby's theory of a "secret rapture" of the Church and of the separation of Israel and the Church were treated as oddities in Biblical teaching by his own Plymouth Brethren in England. Prior to that time, established doctrine treated national Israel's mission as bringing forth the Messiah and once that was accomplished, there was nothing more for national Israel to do in the service of the Kingdom of God. The Resurrection of Christ, as explained in the New Testament in detail by the Apostle Paul, had brought forth "one new man" from among Jews and Gentiles, and henceforth the earth consisted of two groups of people, those who were in God's Kingdom (the saved) and those who were not (the lost). Even St. Paul, in Romans, laments the fate of his Jewish brethren for rejecting their Messiah.

What Darby produced was a doctrine of two "second comings" of Christ, one secret for the purpose of "rapturing" the church to heaven prior to the end times, and the second advent at the finale of end times prophecies for the judgment of the world. No hint of any such double advent is given by Jesus in His description of the end times given in Matthew chapter 24 or Luke chapter 21.

From Darby's work, Dr. C. I. Scofield set about to advance his theories and produced an annotated "Scofield Bible of 1909" in which his dispensationalist doctrines, first devised by J. N. Darby, are set forth in the form of notes "explaining" the meaning of various passages of the Bible. For the past seventy years or so, the dispensationalist explanation of the book of Revelation and the 70th week of Daniel have dominated nearly all fundamental Christian denominations. They are, as a rule, rejected wholly by the liturgical churches that retain the Christian faith in its post-Reformation state of believing in the Church as God's people, whether in heaven or on earth (sometimes called the Church Universal), including both Jew and Gentile, and rejecting any role of a national Israel in Bible eschatology (end-time events).

Having begun in late 1968 to find out about Christianity, my schooling has included just about every form of belief and doctrine being taught, but today the dominance of dispensationalism is influencing not only forms of belief in the Church, but in the way that Christian people look at Israel and the duties of the United States of America with regard to the nation of Israel.

Do I anticipate a one-world government? Yes. That is entirely possible whether Israel exists as a nation or not. Would I be surprised at the rise of an antichrist at the helm of the one world government? No. Various forms of antichrists have existed since the birth of the Christian church, so to have one final world ruler, a position to which many have aspired throughout the ages, is not dispensationalist. Do I believe in a "zap rapture" of the church before all the troubles begin? No. I find that most people who are preoccupied with such a rapture are people with deep and serious problems on earth and who find that path of escape the most desirable idea presented in the churches that adhere to dispensationalism. It would be a magnificent exit to simply be swooped up by the Lord with all His people on earth and carried away from all our problems, pains and other sufferings here in this short lifetime. I simply do not believe that such a secret "second advent before the real second advent" is in the Bible. It has been put there by Dr. Scofield and taught with absolute authority by some of the most prominent Bible teachers and theologians in America, particularly those from Dallas Theological Seminary. Authors Hal Lindsey and Tim LaHaye have advanced the cause of dispensationalism with their books, some of which have gained the status of a latter-day gospel among their fans.

While that's a normal flow of religion and delusion, it is not "the faith once delivered" or rightly dividing the word of truth. As a matter of fact, it is a form of "Christianity" that would have been labeled total apostasy during and after the Reformation and until the early 20th century when it took hold in America.

All of this information regarding Scofield, Darby, dispensationalism and Christian thought is for a single purpose. It is to demonstrate that if American Christian churches had stuck to the faith of our fathers and the early Christian settlers in the colonies, even the faith preached from the pulpits through most of the nineteenth century, the United States would not be under the pressure it is today from the Christian churches whose adherents are ardent dispensationalists and believe in a restoration of Israel, the building of a third temple, and dozens of other tenets of dispensationalism.

Without dispensationalism, we would have a nation still largely believing in the theology of the Reformation and hence Israel as a nation and political entity would have no influence on the Church, "the Israel of God" and the "one new man" of God's Kingdom, bought with His own blood.

Dispensationalism places the Church under the delusion that Christians must support the nation of Israel at all costs in order to put things in place for Christ's secret return and eventually, at Armageddon (one of the most misunderstood words/ideas in the Bible) the final conflict between good and evil, Satan's minions and God's people. Almost every major error in the Church has either originated with a misunderstanding of the book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ to St. John on the Isle of Patmos. Other errors do occur, such as the snake handlers who "prove" their faith by handling vipers, but essentially the Book of the Revelation has been the source of most of the major doctrinal errors in the Christian faith, at least those arising after the Reformation.

The theology of the Reformation as held by the LCMS (Lutheran Church Missouri Synod, of which I became a member some years back) is basically the same doctrine as held by the founders of our nation, who were largely Calvinists. Luther and Calvin were contemporaries and had their differences, so the Lutheran church has some doctrinal differences with the Calvinist theology. But both reject the dispensationalist view as a latter day delusion brought about first by the popularity of a "rapture" that would allow Christians to escape all the world's evils, and then developing into a complete reliance of the Church's mission on the existence of a national Israel. This persuasion is so strong among fundamental Baptists and Pentecostals, Nazarenes and unaffiliated Bible and charismatic churches as to be the primary Christian doctrine in America today.

The tragedy of all this lies in the influence of Darby and Scofield not only on the basic theological construct of the Christian faith as taught in fundamental Christian churches today, but in the influence those churches have on the national policies of our nation, without which the United States may very well not have the commitment it does to the Middle East and its myriad problems. Of course the commercial interests regarding oil would still influence both our foreign policy and our foreign strategy, but undergirding the US policies abroad are the dispensationalist Christian beliefs, just as fundamental Islamic beliefs underlie and provide underpinnings to their Jihads.

Unfortunately, most Christians who go to church haven't a clue as to what the above essay says because they haven't the foggiest notion of theological constructs, never heard of Darby, might have heard of Scofield, and are just seeking the Kingdom of God and following their leaders. Come to think of it, that seems to be the reason we still have Republicans and Democrats who have changed their political constructs and no one notices or thinks it matters.

Religion and politics really shouldn't mix with one another, but they do because of human nature. It is just well to remember that both are inflammatory and can produce, in fact will produce, a new holocaust on earth. Just give them a little more tim

robnoel  posted on  2009-07-23   20:18:56 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Do I anticipate a one-world government? Yes.

All the so-called 'pastors' of 501(c)(3) businesses masquerading as churches will instruct their 'congregation' to turn the other cheek and render unto Caesar at that point. Throw in a little "You'll burn in Hell for questioning authorities!!" and the 'pastors' will have done their job.

X-15  posted on  2009-07-23   22:19:48 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

All the so-called 'pastors' of 501(c)(3) businesses masquerading as churches will instruct their 'congregation' to turn the other cheek and render unto Caesar at that point. Throw in a little "You'll burn in Hell for questioning authorities!!" and the 'pastors' will have done their job.

I have a problem with the 501 c's also. But do you think they are all bad?

A K A Stone  posted on  2009-07-23   22:23:46 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Absolutely. Once they take on that tax-status they forfeit their ability to function as a real church and criticize the immorality of politicians and FedGov.

X-15  posted on  2009-07-23   22:30:00 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Absolutely. Once they take on that tax-status they forfeit their ability to function as a real church and criticize the immorality of politicians and FedGov.

I used to go to a church. It was 501 c. The pastor critiized the govt. This was back when Clinton was Prez.

A K A Stone  posted on  2009-07-23   22:46:01 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

#111. To: A K A Stone (#104)

Group asks IRS to investigate churches for hosting Democratic leaders' speeches

By Robert Marus Wednesday, September 08, 2004 WASHINGTON (ABP) -- A religious-liberty group often accused of attacking conservative churches for political activity has criticized two progressive Baptist congregations for Democratic advocacy.

Americans United for Separation of Church and state is asking the Internal Revenue Service to investigate New Birth Baptist Church in Miami for hosting what the group called a "Democratic rally" during an Aug. 29 worship service.

At the service, which featured Democratic National Committee chairman Terry McAuliffe and Democratic political activist Al Sharpton, speakers urged the congregation to defeat President Bush in his bid for re-election.

"Bush has misled us for four years and will not mislead us the next four years. Get out and vote, and we'll send Bush back to Texas," McAulliffe said, according to Americans United.

Churches and other non-profit groups organized under Section 501(c)(3) of the federal tax codes are not allowed to endorse political parties or candidates without risking loss of their tax-exempt status. However, churches may host voter registration drives and educational activities as long as they are done in a non-partisan fashion.

In his complaint to the IRS, AU's executive director, Barry Lynn, said New Birth's actions went beyond that. "This event seems to have gone beyond legitimate voter education about issues," he wrote. "Rather, the event was partisan in its approach and included only Democrats. It promoted Democratic candidates while disparaging Republicans.… I urge you to take appropriate action to correct this abuse of the law."

Americans United also criticized -- although it stopped short of asking for officials to investigate -- an Aug. 29 speech by former President Bill Clinton at the famously liberal Riverside Church in New York City. Clinton's speech, which was timed for the beginning of the Republican National Convention in New York, was highly critical of Bush's policies. However, Clinton did not directly endorse Bush's challenger, Massachusetts Sen. John Kerry.

Riverside Church is dually affiliated with the American Baptist Churches and the United Church of Christ.

"The difference between the Florida and the Riverside cases is that you in Florida, you had the chairman of the Democratic National Committee basically telling people how to vote -- not just criticizing the shortcomings of a candidate," Lynn told an Associated Baptist Press reporter. "Bill Clinton's speech…came right to the edge of the cliff, but stopped short of a direct candidate endorsement."

AU has regularly criticized -- and sometimes reported -- conservative churches and ministries for appearing to endorse Republican candidates. In recent months, the group has asked IRS officials to investigate Virginia Baptist pastor and television preacher Jerry Falwell as well as Arkansas Baptist pastor Ronnie Floyd for endorsing Bush. It also criticized an Aug. 24 chapel speech that Falwell gave at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in Fort Worth.

"I'm appalled by both of them," Lynn said of Falwell and Clinton's respective speeches. "I think that it's deplorable when political leaders or religious leaders -- a Jerry Falwell or a Bill Clinton -- kind of skirt the law and turn a religious institution almost into a political entity."

Several conservative groups have pushed in the last two years to pass legislation, sponsored by Rep. Walter Jones (R-N.C.) that would end the ban on politicking by churches and other houses of worship. AU and other church-state separationist groups have strongly opposed the bill.

Bill Murray, a Virginia-based conservative religious activist whose biggest claim to fame is being the born-again son of the late atheist Madalyn Murray O'Hair, is one of AU's fiercest critics. He backs the Jones bill, and recently started a satirical organization to "rat out liberal churches" for political involvement. He told Associated Baptist Press that Lynn, through AU, "does nothing but attack conservatives in order to help liberals get into political office."

Murray also accused AU of reporting the Miami church only to avoid criticism that the group only attacked partisan churches. "This is just grandstanding to pretend that he is being non-partisan," he said, noting that the conservative Catholic League reported the political activity at New Birth Baptist a day before AU did. "As of two weeks ago, [AU] had only reported two liberal churches" to the IRS, he said.

AU spokesman Joe Conn told ABP that his group hadn't waited on the Catholic League to report the Miami church to the IRS, but simply took longer to investigate the situation carefully before deciding to report New Birth for violations of the law.

Conn also called Murray's accusations of partisanship on AU's part unjustified. "Our first interest in this was [church endorsements of Democratic presidential candidate] Jesse Jackson back in '88, so it's hardly a partisan effort on our part," he said.

According to a document the group provided to ABP, of the 52 churches AU has reported to the IRS since 1992 for inappropriate political activity, 31 were accused of activity in support of conservative candidates, while 21 were accused of activity in support of liberal candidates.

Source: http://www.abpnews.com/index.php? option=com_content&task=view&id=1823&Itemid=117

X-15  posted on  2009-07-23 23:14:14 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

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