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Editorial
See other Editorial Articles

Title: Birthers Defend Obviously Fake Kenyan Obama Birth Certificate
Source: [None]
URL Source: [None]
Published: Aug 3, 2009
Author: http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2009/08/bir
Post Date: 2009-08-03 22:20:07 by tom007
Keywords: None
Views: 1583
Comments: 134

Birthers Defend Obviously Fake Kenyan Obama Birth Certificate

* 8/3/09 at 6:02 PM * Comment 8Comment 8Comments

Over the weekend, the leaders of the Birther movement forged a Kenyan birth certificate that they claim proves that Barack Obama was not born in the United States, and therefore is not legally president. Even though this was rapidly debunked, even by supporters of the Birthers, leaders like Orly Taitz, the Zsa Zsa of the lunatic fringe of the right wing, have still taken to the airwaves to proclaim victory. Of course, they're getting an increasingly hostile reception. In this clip, watch as Taitz goes off against MSNBC hosts, calling them "offensive," linking their behavior to Hitler's paramilitary "brownshirts," and proclaiming that they "will not be on TV for too long." Watching this video, we realized that it's not just the famous Hungarian actress and socialite that Orly reminded us of. There's someone else close to our hearts to whom (at least vocally) she bears an uncanny resemblance. If only we could put our finger on it.

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#94. To: IDon'tThinkSo (#80)

The fake Obama COLB has already been proven to be a fake.

Which "fake" are you talking about, and who "proved" it?

Does the State of Hawaii know this?

IDon'tThinkSoGood, are you an idiot in real life or do you just play one on Freedom4um,com?

packrat1145  posted on  2009-08-16   21:55:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#95. To: packrat1145 (#92)

Yes, but they have done so in large degree because we allowed them to.

Sadly, We The People have not been as vigilant as we should have been in paying attention to what has been happening; and, have allowed it to become the norm that our elected officials not only do not follow the Constitution, but to also not even understand the contents of that document. Indeed, far too few of us do, either.

absolutely.

There is not even one shred of evidence that he did so except for third hand heresay. It was a rumor started by a leftist blogger who had no way to have any first hand knowledge of what was said in the meeting during which he claimed it was said. His claim was that someone in attendance at the meeting had told another person and that second party told him, the blogger. Like I said, third hand information with not a single one who supposedly repeated it (except the leftist blogger himself) ever being identified. I could prove that to you; but, it's not worth it to me now to worry about what Bush may have thought or said.

oh? i wasn't aware of that.

christine  posted on  2009-08-16   21:59:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#96. To: packrat1145 (#94)

I see you're as big an asshole here as you are at LP.

IDon'tThinkSo  posted on  2009-08-16   22:04:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#97. To: packrat1145 (#92)

Whether or not anyone along the way dropped the ball; and, regardless of how many votes he got, no part of that process negates the Constitution. Nothing personal; but, neither does your belief.

Honestly, packrat, by that token a newly elected sheriff may continue to hold office even though subsequently it becomes known that he has been convicted of a number of felonies that would have prevented him from running or taking office.

I have no damned idea where this man was born or not born or what the citizenship was of whoever was screwing his mommy. Every day I care less and less.

But let's be clear on this: You cannot profit from the fruits of a fraud or other crime. A fraudulently elected official cannot continue to hold office - sheriff or president - even if he is elected unanimously.

Join 2x4 Tuesdays & protect your RKBA.
www.righttokeepandbeararms.com

randge  posted on  2009-08-16   22:06:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#98. To: WEAVER (#89)

It's a technicality; but, Obama, Sr. was a Kenyan citizen and a British subject Please Stay Focused America!

Obama, Sr. was a Kenyan citizen and a British subject

Fortunately, millions of Americans are focused.

Unfortunately, the media is ignoring that fact.

Fortunately, we have the Internet where we can learn the truth.

Bottom line: We have the advantage, IF we use it properly. Start emailing the facts to everyone on your contact list and asking them to do the same. If only ten people email to ten friends and those ten pass it on to ten of their friends, that will result in one hundred people being exposed to the truth. If those one hundred do the same, that's a thousand people seeing the truth. If that is repeated through ten levels, the email will have been sent to billions of people.

IOWs, long before the tenth level, many more than the total population of the USA will have had the opportunity to learn the truth.

"Other than God Almighty Himself, there is no greater force on earth than the collective strength of a properly informed American citizenry." - - - JT Mims

packrat1145  posted on  2009-08-16   22:10:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#99. To: packrat1145 (#98)

It's a technicality; but, Obama, Sr. was a Kenyan citizen and a British subject Please Stay Focused America!

Obama, Sr. was a Kenyan citizen and a British subject

Fortunately, millions of Americans are focused.

Unfortunately, the media is ignoring that fact.

Fortunately, we have the Internet where we can learn the truth.

I meant everty word when I said "stay focused America", I'm not talking about what the media is "ingnoring', we, those who are focucsed, we already know for a fact, they don't give damn, so why rehash old news?

You're only right about one aspect, the internet! How refreshing! As if this is a new revenue...

I do not mean to sound disrespectful, but please, for the multitudes of those who may be just awakening to what is unfolding in this country....keep it simple, don't polute your messeage with a lot of unnessessary garbage of no importance...just keep your message simple and the audience you seek will understand!

WEAVER

WEAVER  posted on  2009-08-16   22:26:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#100. To: packrat1145 (#98)

BORN IN THE USA?

Obama mama: 6 lost months
No documented record of whereabouts, activity leading up to baby's birth in '61

www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=106942

Itistoolate  posted on  2009-08-16   22:29:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#101. To: randge (#97)

I have no damned idea where this man was born or not born or what the citizenship was of whoever was screwing his mommy. Every day I care less and less.

And yet he's your president? You 'randge', got exactly the leadership you deserver, unfortunutely, your sort of ignorance fits perfectly in some communistic country...exactly where you should be!

WEAVER

WEAVER  posted on  2009-08-16   22:33:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#102. To: christine (#95)

bush was candid when he declared that the constitution is just a goddamned piece of paper.

There is not even one shred of evidence that he did so except for third hand heresay. It was a rumor started by a leftist blogger who had no way to have any first hand knowledge of what was said in the meeting during which he claimed it was said. His claim was that someone in attendance at the meeting had told another person and that second party told him, the blogger. Like I said, third hand information with not a single one who supposedly repeated it (except the leftist blogger himself) ever being identified. I could prove that to you; but, it's not worth it to me now to worry about what Bush may have thought or said.

oh? i wasn't aware of that.

Only because I believe you are a true seeker of truth... here is the orignal source for the rumor:

Bush on the Constitution: 'It's just a goddamned piece of paper'
By Doug thompson

Last month, Republican Congressional leaders filed into the Oval Office to meet with President George W. Bush and talk about renewing the controversial USA Patriot Act.

Several provisions of the act, passed in the shell-shocked period immediately following the 9/11 terrorist attacks, caused enough anger that liberal groups like the American Civil Liberties Union had joined forces with prominent conservatives like Phyllis Schlafly and Bob Barr to oppose renewal.

GOP leaders told Bush that his hardcore push to renew the more onerous provisions of the act could further alienate conservatives still mad at the President from his botched attempt to nominate White House Counsel Harriet Miers to the Supreme Court.

"I don't give a goddamn," Bush retorted. "I'm the President and the Commander- in-Chief. Do it my way."

"Mr. President," one aide in the meeting said. "There is a valid case that the provisions in this law undermine the Constitution."

"Stop throwing the Constitution in my face," Bush screamed back. "It's just a goddamned piece of paper!"

I've talked to three people who were either present for the meeting that day or had knowledge of what happened inside the meeting and they all says the President of the United States called the Constitution "a goddamned piece of paper."

None, unfortunately, are willing to go on the record in a White House known for retribution against those who leak information.

*************

"...in a White House known for retribution against those who leak information..." Convenient red herring, no? Trouble is, even if that were a true statement, it can't replace the proof that Thompson fails to provide for his claim of what Bush supposedly said.

Now... let's take a look at who apparently really is of the opinion, whether stated or not, that the Constitution is just a 'Goddamned piece of paper.'

Obama's citizenship: Another loony conspiracy theory
By Doug thompson

In the loony world of conspiracy theory nutcases, anything is possible and the most ludicrous of claims too often get passed off as fact.

Case in point: The incredibly stupid debate over President Barack Obama's citizenship.

Started by the right wing in a failed effort to prevent America from electing its first African-American President, the so-called "birthers" movement -- fueled by hatemongers, racists, bigots and the incurably stupid -- continues to spread discredited lies that Obama was born in Kenya or some other non-American locale.

Our current President was born in Hawaii, an American territory that became our 50th state. Hawaii confirmed it and, for normal people with a working brain, that should have closed the case.

But conspiracy nuts don't have functioning brains. They have out-of-control fantasies, fed by terminal insanity, driven by inane beliefs that anything that involves the government is a dark, X-Files conspiracy to destroy us all.

I recently ordered a certified copy of my birth certificate from the state of Florida. They sent me a computer generated document that looks a lot like the one produced by Hawaii to confirm Obama's birth. I took that document to my local Social Security office and asked if that provides proof of birth and citizenship.

Yes, they said. It does.

But proof of birth will not satisfy the lunatic fringe when it comes to supporting the conspiracy du jour. They need to feed their lurid fantasies that Obama is a puppet of Saudi Arabia, a pawn of the mythical New World Order (otherwise known as NWO) or part of some Zionist conspiracy cooked up by anti- Semites to support their hate and bigotry.

Sadly, the Internet -- which could function as a medium for spreading real, fact-based information -- is a hotbed for half-baked conspiracy theories, hate, racism and outright lies. Those who question Obama's birthrate will claim they are not racist, but many of them are. You find misinformation about his birth certificate on many white supremacy web sites but you will not find one credible shred of evidence that supports the birther movement on a site devoted to hard, cold facts.

As an American, I have serious problems with some of Obama's policies. I feel he is pushing the country that I love too far to the left and spending this nation into irreversible debt.

But I do not, for one second, doubt his birthright.

He's an American.

Anyone who buys into the claims of the birthers is a gullible fool.

*************

Is Thompson an honest journalist who really and truly believes in the Constitution himself? Or... is he just another leftist who will tell any lie to keep the liberal agenda alive and well?

I'll let you decide; but, I can you one thing... as many times as his claim about Bush has been repeated, not one person has ever come forward to say, "I'm Doug Thompson's source. I was at that meeting and I personally heard George Bush say what Doug Thompson claimed."

BTW, as I was finding all this once again (I used to have all this stuff bookmarked, but my HD crashed a couple of years ago), I remembered that at one time I had found where Thompson actually issued a retraction for his story about Bush. Shortly after that, he hid the link to that retraction and issued a statement saying he stood by the story... A few references can still be found to it by doing a search for "Bush on the Constitution" "Doug Thompson" +retraction; but I can't find an actual link to it now.

But, let's forget for a moment what Thompson believes and even overlook his politics. Just how good is his judgement as far as choosing what sources to rely on for his claims? I'll even allow Thompson to answer that question for us... Here's what he himself says about a source he claims to have depended for a period of twenty years...

packrat1145  posted on  2009-08-17   0:10:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#103. To: IDon'tThinkSo (#96)

I see you're as big an asshole here as you are at LP.

To paraphrase Popeye...

"wherever I yam..."

;-))

packrat1145  posted on  2009-08-17   0:20:44 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#104. To: IDon'tThinkSo (#96)

The fake Obama COLB has already been proven to be a fake.

Which "fake" are you talking about, and who "proved" it?

Does the State of Hawaii know this?

IDon'tThinkSoGood, are you an idiot in real life or do you just play one on Freedom4um,com?

I see you're as big an asshole here as you are at LP.

Oh, wait... now I get it!

You're probably a little miffed because I didn't give you credit for playing an idiot both here and at LP!

My apology for being so careless... ;-))

packrat1145  posted on  2009-08-17   0:24:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#105. To: randge (#97)

Whether or not anyone along the way dropped the ball; and, regardless of how many votes he got, no part of that process negates the Constitution. Nothing personal; but, neither does your belief.

Honestly, packrat, by that token a newly elected sheriff may continue to hold office even though subsequently it becomes known that he has been convicted of a number of felonies that would have prevented him from running or taking office.

Nope... I have no reason to doubt the honesty of your comment; but, that is the exact opposite of the meaning of my words. Please read my comment again.

I have no damned idea where this man was born or not born or what the citizenship was of whoever was screwing his mommy. Every day I care less and less.

I refuse to believe that you really mean that.

Because if you do, it can only mean that you either also do not care about what the Constitution says or you do not understand what it says relative to requirements for the office of president.

But let's be clear on this: You cannot profit from the fruits of a fraud or other crime. A fraudulently elected official cannot continue to hold office - sheriff or president - even if he is elected unanimously.

I am clear on it. I said as much... Please re-read my comment.

packrat1145  posted on  2009-08-17   0:38:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#106. To: packrat1145 (#102)

ok. you've convinced me. Thompson failed to source. i'm glad to get this information. i'll not repeat that "rumor" again.

Started by the right wing in a failed effort to prevent America from electing its first African-American President, the so-called "birthers" movement

and that tells me all i need to know about Doug Thompson and his bias.

christine  posted on  2009-08-17   0:57:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#107. To: christine (#106)

ok. you've convinced me. Thompson failed to source. i'm glad to get this information. i'll not repeat that "rumor" again.

Thanks.

Started by the right wing in a failed effort to prevent America from electing its first African-American President, the so-called "birthers" movement

and that tells me all i need to know about Doug Thompson and his bias.

Right. Surely, there's not a serious journalist in the country who doesn't know by now that Democrat Phil Berg is the one who first filed suit against Obama in the matter.

If any Republican had ever mentioned the issue before that, I'm not aware of it.

packrat1145  posted on  2009-08-17   2:44:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#108. To: Original_Intent, Prefrontal Vortex, mirage, buckeroo, tom007, Prefrontal Vortex, rack42, TwentyTwelve, Shoonra, Sam Houston, christine, Hayek Fan, PaulCJ, farmfriend (#47)

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962). Couple of fine points:

The Constitution comes first.

The qualifier: "...according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. ..."

According to the UCMJ it is a Courts Martial offense to obey an illegal order.

So, this presents an interesting legal situation.

If a servicemember believes that the President is illegally in office and is not legally the President then accepting an order therefrom is accepting an illegal order and a punishable, under the UCMJ, offense.

As well since the Constitution of the United States is the Supreme Law of the Land one must make the decision when such a conflict arises as to which will be obeyed?

Were I still in uniform I know what my decision would be. The Constitution comes first, and the usurper is not legally President and thus any order emanating from him is an illegal order.

The question that the Officer Corps is morally, and by given oath, bound to resolve is do they have a duty to follow the orders of a President they believe to be falsely installed in office? Do they have the courage to actually defend the country against a domestic enemy when that enemy is, however falsely, infesting the highest office in the land?

I read your above comment earlier; but, I don't think I ever got around to acknowledging it. I just wanted you to know I agree with you 100% on your synopsis. I will only add that what you have stated was the basis for Dr. Orly Taitz's Cook v. Obama et al.

packrat1145  posted on  2009-08-17   15:17:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#109. To: Original_Intent (#7)

"Obama was born in Hawaii, the proof is there." Does it matter? The guy is a sitting president.

It is an established legal principle that the person who has committed a fraud should be allowed to profit from the fraud.

If Obama is proven to be not a natural born American Citizen then he is not and never has been President but is instead a Usurper.

The Oxford American Dictionary defines it thus: usurp verb - "take (a position of power or importance) illegally or by force." "Richard usurped the throne"

OR (my own) Obama usurped the Presidency by fraud.

There is no credible evidence in the public record showing that Oh'bummer was born in Hawaii. The Certificate of live birth does not count as it could be granted to someone born somewhere else such as Kenya - or like his sister, born in Indonesia, who also has a Certificate of Live Birth.

Explain why someone who is innocent of the charge would spend in the vicinity of one million dollars to hide the evidence of their innocence.

Very good post. However, if I may, I believe a couple of corrections are in order, as follows:

Per, "It is an established legal principle that the person who has committed a fraud should be allowed to profit from the fraud." I thionk you probably meant to say, "It is an established legal principle that the person who has committed a fraud should NOT be allowed to profit from the fraud."

Also, where you speak of a "Certificate of Live Birth;" it appears you are referring to the COLB Obama's minions posted on the Internet. As such, when spelled out, it would be a "Certification of Live Birth" rather than a Certificate.

packrat1145  posted on  2009-08-17   15:31:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#110. To: packrat1145 (#109)

My bad - I intended to say "Not" and didn't catch when proofreading my post.

And yes to the second: COLB = Certificate of Live Birth.

Short on time gotta run.

"I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician

Original_Intent  posted on  2009-08-17   15:41:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#111. To: Original_Intent (#31)

It is an established legal principle that the person who has committed a fraud should be allowed to profit from the fraud.

Well OK then. Maybe the word NOT was missing here?

Thank you. I stand corrected. Yes, there should have been a "not" there but instead it is not there.

Sorry, I did not see the above to know you had already been made aware of the missing "not." I had assumed that were you aware of it that you might have corrected it via that great little feature called "Edit." ;-))

Seriously, that's one thing that freedom4um and GOPachy.com has that I love and miss having at LP. By the way, I sure could use some help at GOPachy discussing the Obama eligibility issue if you ever have some extra time. There aren't a lot of those articles posted there; but, the ones that are are mostly found under the category called "The Fourth Estate."

packrat1145  posted on  2009-08-17   15:51:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#112. To: WEAVER, packrat1145 (#105)

Every day I care less and less.

You 'randge', got exactly the leadership you deserver, unfortunutely, your sort of ignorance fits perfectly in some communistic country...exactly where you should be! - WEAVER

I refuse to believe that you really mean that.

Because if you do, it can only mean that you either also do not care about what the Constitution says or you do not understand what it says relative to requirements for the office of president. - packrat1145

In truth, I care a lot. This character in the WH, I hate to even say his name, makes me ill. The whole situation with the penumbra under which his record is cloaked is a travesty. I'm so white hot, it's giving me migraines, and sometime I wish the entire matter would go away. But it won't.

And anyone who propagates the ignorance that WEAVER shakes a stick at DOES deserve to live in a commie country.

BTW, sorry I misinterpreted your stance, packrat. I shouldn't post when I'm physically exhausted. I've been following this discussion for over a year now, and I'm really frosted over the fractiousness of the debate. I put the blame squarely on 'Bama and his men. Their actions constitute a vicious and unconscienable assault on our constitutional order.

Join 2x4 Tuesdays & protect your RKBA.
www.righttokeepandbeararms.com

randge  posted on  2009-08-17   15:56:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#113. To: Original_Intent (#110)

My bad - I intended to say "Not" and didn't catch when proofreading my post.

Short on time gotta run.

No problem, I didn't realize you were already aware of it.

And yes to the second: COLB = Certificate of Live Birth.

Right... COLB = Certificatecation of Live Birth. ;-))

From http://www.flick r.com/photos/23580873@N05/3201196892/:

"This is a copy of Barack H. Obama's Certification of Live Birth that he released through his web-site. It is clear to any person with reasonable intelligence that there are many glaring problems with this document. Furthermore, any educated person, who is willing to do a certain amount of research will soon realize that a Certification of Live Birth is not quite the same as a Certificate of Live Birth. The former is a short-form for the latter. The latter includes much more information such as the name/sig of delivery physician.

Barack Obama is not a Natural Born Citizen regardless of the authenticity of this insufficient document. According to his own smears web-site, he was a British subject at time of Birth because of his father's citizenship. He admits this on his OWN web-site."

packrat1145  posted on  2009-08-17   16:11:12 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#114. To: packrat1145 (#113) (Edited)

How many dozen times have I linked you to that pic and yet you still trot out the old picture to prove your case? Why are you intentionally bringing out old evidence instead of addressing the high quality evidence?

**Edited for piece of shit outdated browsers.

Rhino369  posted on  2009-08-17   16:33:32 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#115. To: Rhino369 (#114)

Could you make that a little bigger please? I can't quite make it out.

All of a sudden dissent is no longer patriotic.

4 givan 1  posted on  2009-08-17   16:37:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#116. To: 4 givan 1 (#115)

Could you make that a little bigger please? I can't quite make it out.

Upgrade to a real browser, it works fine in Firefox and Opera. You can check my html if you want.

Rhino369  posted on  2009-08-17   16:39:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#117. To: randge, WEAVER (#112)

I believe that when all is said and done, all three of us, and many more here and on other forums, are all on the same side. Hopefully, we can all resolve our personal differences over details.

BTW, speaking of details, I made the following statement in an earlier comment to WEAVER...

"It's a technicality; but, Obama, Sr. was a Kenyan citizen and a British subject. But I believe your underlying premise is that because Obama'a father was never a US citizen of any kind, Obama never was, is not now and never can be eligible to be president; and, that premise is 100% correct."

...however, after a little thought, I realize that WEAVER was correct in his statement that Obama was a British citizen. While I, too, was right in saying Obama was a Kenyan citizen and a "British subject," it appears that Obama was also accorded British citizenship via The British Nationality Act of 1948.

My point is that we are all different and sometimes see details differently. Sometimes we can be completely wrong on certain details; yet, be dead on in the greater scheme of things. Other times not entirely wrong; but, still slightly out of kilter; as I was in the above instance.

The most important thing to know is that Obama is a danger to America and we must somehow make sure he is removed ASAP; and, I believe we three can agree on that.

packrat1145  posted on  2009-08-17   16:46:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#118. To: Rhino369 (#114)

How many dozen times have I linked you to that pic and yet you still trot out the old picture to prove your case? Why are you intentionally bringing out old evidence instead of addressing the high quality evidence?

**Edited for piece of shit outdated browsers.

You conveniently forgot to mention that the "old evidence" came from the same source your "new evidence" does; and, that it was brought out because after they brought out the "old evidence" people were immediately able to see obvious discrepencies in that "evidence." This new evidence you so gullibly keep trotting out is just another fake they hope will make up for the mistakes they made in the original. Unfortunately for them, it only serves to prove the fakeness of them both.

packrat1145  posted on  2009-08-17   16:54:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#119. To: packrat1145 (#118)

Got any expert to show show these are fake? Or are you just pulling that out of your ass. Because it Obama showed fake documents, thats probably impeachable. Lets see it. An MS paint image circle things like assuming they called black people negros doesn't cut it. One expert please, just one. If you can produce a legit expert, with real credentials I'll never challenge you on birth bullshit again.

Rhino369  posted on  2009-08-17   16:57:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#120. To: 4 givan 1 (#115)

Could you make that a little bigger please? I can't quite make it out.

You should be able to click the image to enlarge it, 4G1.

Miss congeniality should have mentioned that since it's not noticable unless one happens to drag their pointer arrow across the image... But that wouldn't give him the opportunity to typically badger someone for something that is his own fault.

packrat1145  posted on  2009-08-17   17:00:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#121. To: Rhino369 (#119)

Got any expert to show show these are fake?

And we should take as gospel the forensic abilities of some Hawaiian bureaucrat who claims all is well with Barry's paper work?

Who else in government do you trust?

Jethro Tull  posted on  2009-08-17   17:04:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#122. To: packrat1145 (#120)

I was being facescious(sp) since the pic he posted showed up so big it whacked out the entire thread.

All of a sudden dissent is no longer patriotic.

4 givan 1  posted on  2009-08-17   17:24:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#123. To: 4 givan 1 (#122)

I was being facescious(sp) since the pic he posted showed up so big it whacked out the entire thread.

Gotcha. No problem...

packrat1145  posted on  2009-08-17   17:37:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#124. To: Itistoolate (#100)

Obama mama: 6 lost months

No documented record of whereabouts, activity leading up to baby's birth in '61

www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=106942

Interesting. Another example of how little real documentation we have about Obama's past. Thanks for the link.

packrat1145  posted on  2009-08-17   17:42:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#125. To: Rhino369, 4 givan 1, Jethro Tull, Original_Intent, randge, WEAVER, Prefrontal Vortex, mirage, buckeroo, tom007, Prefrontal Vortex, rack42, TwentyTwelve, Shoonra, Sam Houston, christine, Hayek Fan, PaulCJ, farmfriend, IDon'tThinkSo, Itistoolate, Tony Two T (#119)

Got any expert to show show these are fake? Or are you just pulling that out of your ass. Because it Obama showed fake documents, thats probably impeachable. Lets see it. An MS paint image circle things like assuming they called black people negros doesn't cut it. One expert please, just one. If you can produce a legit expert, with real credentials I'll never challenge you on birth bullshit again.

Happy to oblige. I'll be looking forward to hearing the "Golden Sounds of Silence" from you on this topic in the future.

Meet Sandra Ramsey Lines....

She's an expert Forensic Document Examiner whose Curriculum Vitae can be found here. Be sure to check out the links near the bottom of the page there.

Here is what Ms. Lines says about the image of Obama's COLB posted on line by his operatives:

"I have reviewed the attached affidavit posted on the internet from “Ron Polarik,” [PDF] who has declined to provide his name because of a number of death threats he has received. After my review and based on my years of experience, I can state with certainty that the COLB presented on the internet by the various groups, which include the “Daily Kos,” the Obama Campaign, “Factcheck.org” and others cannot be relied upon as genuine. Mr. Polarik raises issues concerning the COLB that I can affirm. Software such as Adobe Photoshop can produce complete images or alter images that appear to be genuine; therefore, any image offered on the internet cannot be relied upon as being a copy of the authentic document.

Upon a cursory inspection of the internet COLB, one aspect of the image that is clearly questionable is the obliteration of the Certificate No. That number is a tracking number that would allow anyone to ask the question, “Does this number refer to the Certification of Live Birth for the child Barack Hussein Obama II?” It would not reveal any further personal information; therefore, there would be no justifiable reason for oliterating it.

In my experience as a forensic document examiner, if an original of any document exists, that is the document that must be examined to obtain a definitive finding of genuineness or non-genuineness. In this case, examination of the vault birth certificate for President-Elect Obama would lay this issue to rest once and for all."

The above statement can be found in the sworn affidavit from Ms. Lines that has been entered into evidence in at least one of the Obama lawsuits. A still more detailed listing of Lines' credentials can be found by scrolling down below her statement. Please note that should that case go to trial, Ms. Lines would be subject to being found in contempt of court at least, and possibly guilty of purjury, if the information in that affidavit were to be found untrue.

packrat1145  posted on  2009-08-17   17:46:28 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#126. To: packrat1145 (#125)

"I have reviewed the attached affidavit posted on the internet from “Ron Polarik,” [PDF] who has declined to provide his name because of a number of death threats he has received. After my review and based on my years of experience, I can state with certainty that the COLB presented on the internet by the various groups, which include the “Daily Kos,” the Obama Campaign, “Factcheck.org” and others cannot be relied upon as genuine. Mr. Polarik raises issues concerning the COLB that I can affirm. Software such as Adobe Photoshop can produce complete images or alter images that appear to be genuine; therefore, any image offered on the internet cannot be relied upon as being a copy of the authentic document.

http://barackryphal.blogspot.com/2009/07/meet-ronald-jay-polland.htm

Polarik has been debunked as a fraud. That your nonexpert confirmed his findings only confirms she is a fraud. She has no credentials. No degree, she is just a former cop. She would not be accepted as an expert witness with this resume. She doesn't even list her employers. You'll have to do better than this.

And if you actually read your copy and paste you'd see she only confirms the picture was saved in photoshop.

"In my experience as a forensic document examiner, if an original of any document exists, that is the document that must be examined to obtain a definitive finding of genuineness or non-genuineness. "

One exists and I've provided a photo of it.

Rhino369  posted on  2009-08-17   17:59:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#127. To: packrat1145, I DontThinkSo, all (#125)

Well done pack.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2009-08-17   18:00:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#128. To: Rhino369 (#126)

Ping to #121

Jethro Tull  posted on  2009-08-17   18:01:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#129. To: Rhino369 (#126)

Wednesday, July 29, 2009

Meet Ronald Jay Polland

Allow me to introduce you to someone you may already know:



This is Dr. Ronald Jay Polland. He received a BA in Psychology from Florida State University in 1970, a Masters in Educational Research from FSU in 1972, and a Doctorate in Instructional Systems from FSU in 1978. His curriculum vitae lists the other accomplishments he finds noteworthy. He holds himself out as an expert on surveys and market research.

As of a few years ago, he worked in the Office of Institutional Research at the University of North Florida, where he helped conduct surveys and generate statistical reports. For instance, he wrote this Satisfaction Survey of A & P Employees. Polland is not currently listed as being on staff with that office, and it is unclear what his current occupation is.

However, surveys and statistical reports are not the only aspect of his life. He is the "President and Founder of Dr. RJP Consulting, an international consulting firm," begun in 1989. Polland's previous corporation, Innovative Systems, Inc., was involuntarily dissolved by the state of Florida in 1988.

Polland also has deemed himself an expert on dating. As he writes on his MySpace page, he is an "Expert advisor on relationships, romance and .. dating," and describes himself as "a psychologist by training who has devoted part of his life to helping others with questions and issues related to .. relationships, romance and dating."

He writes the following about how he came to find and recognize this expertise:
"His interest and research into Internet dating began in 1995, the year following the end of his 23-year marriage. His search for a woman to date also brought him into contact with many others who had previously used the Internet to find romance. From his own experience and the experience of others, he noted that both men and women often misrepresented themselves on the Internet. He found that people often lied about their age, looks, background, and occupations to others they met online."

With its talk of online misrepresentation, I imagine this passage is more autobiographically ironic than it was perhaps intended to be. Because if you have not realized it yet:

Ron Polland is Ron Polarik.

As you can see, Polland/Polarik does have the educational degrees he named in his anonymous declaration. He does not hold the other degrees he has claimed: a Masters in Statistics, a Masters in Experimental Psychology, and a Doctorate in Experimental Psychology. Additionally, the proper title for his doctorate is Instructional Systems, not Instructional Media.

It is, perhaps, ironic that the one and only time Polarik accurately named and represented his degrees was in a document that he refused to sign either his real name OR his online pseudonym to.

Also, despite specific (yet contradicted) claims that he was writing under his real last name, or that "I never said that Polarik was a pseudonym," it can now be firmly acknowledged that 'Polarik' is not his real name. Which is, of course, in agreement with the other occasions when he did say that 'Polarik' was a pseudonym.

Given Polarik's history, I fully expect him to respond to this revelation by trying to direct attention to the discrete details he's given that weren't lies. The degrees that he does have, as opposed to the ones he made up, or the false insinuations of technical expertise that he tried to draw from his educational resume. If he addresses his naming at all, I expect him to attempt to convince people that a mere history of misrepresentation shouldn't make him untrustworthy. That people shouldn't doubt his expertise in computers and scanners simply because he's not actually an expert in those things.

Because as is readily evident from his C.V., his education, and his work history, Polland/Polarik has no discernible expertise in computer forensics, digital imagery, or document examination.

I feel I should repeat that with emphasis: Ron Polland/Ron Polarik has no discernible expertise in computer forensics, digital imagery, or document examination.

His trade is in statistics and surveys. He has no degrees relating to computers or technology. He is not a computer expert; he has used computers. He is not a scanner expert; he has used scanners. At best, he is an amateur photography buff. He may have a doctorate, true, but it is in a field wholly unrelated to computer technology. Just see Florida State University's program profile. Even had he signed his real name to his 'XXXXXXXXX' declaration, he still would not have qualified as an expert in the field in which he was attempting to provide expert testimony. Polland would never survive a Daubert challenge, and any lawyer would be foolish to attempt to pass him off as an expert on these matters.

Thus, when Polarik was identified by Phil Berg as one of "three (3) Document Forensic Experts", this was a gross misrepresentation. A gross misrepresentation that Polland must not have minded, as he had his reports posted on Berg's website, without any comment or correction.

Contrast this lack of technological expertise with the credentials of one of his leading critics, Dr. Neal Krawetz. Krawetz holds a Bachelor's in Computer and Information Science, and a doctorate in Computer Science. His specialities are in computer security, software development, and computer forensics. Krawetz has given presentations on how digital images can be manipulated.

And what was Polland's response to this critic who has immensely more education and expertise with computers and digital forensics than himself? "[Krawetz is] a charlatan who falsely used his credentials to fool others into thinking that he is more than qualified to critique my research;" "He doesn't know what scanners can or cannot do;" and "I can say, flat-out, that Krawetz does not have anything close to the research skills I have."

Admittedly, Polland is correct on that last point; Krawetz does not have skills that are comparable to Polland's. Krawetz's relevant skills are far, far superior to Polland's. I refer any and all interested readers to Krawetz's criticism of Polarik's 'research'.

If all of this sounds comparable to the TechDude incident from last year, that's because it is. TechDude passed himself off as an expert in a field where he had no such expertise, declared that he'd made a bunch of stunning discoveries, a lot of people bought into his armchair 'forensic research,' and he was eventually exposed as a phony. They both even doctored their evidence. The reason why Polarik defended TechDude right up until the day he was exposed as a fraud was that Polland simply lacked the expertise to recognize TechDude's errors. Errors that Neal Krawetz, incidentally, did not miss.

The key difference between Polarik and TechDude is that TechDude only managed to pull off his charade for a month. Whereas Polland has managed to stretch his out for over a year.

Don't let him continue it any longer.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2009-08-17   18:12:00 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#130. To: Rhino369, 4 givan 1, Jethro Tull, Original_Intent, randge, WEAVER, Prefrontal Vortex, mirage, buckeroo, tom007, Prefrontal Vortex, rack42, TwentyTwelve, Shoonra, Sam Houston, christine, Hayek Fan, PaulCJ, farmfriend, IDon'tThinkSo, Itistoolate, Tony Two (#114)

How many dozen times have I linked you to that pic and yet you still trot out the old picture to prove your case? Why are you intentionally bringing out old evidence instead of addressing the high quality evidence?

**Edited for piece of shit outdated browsers.

By the way, if you click that pic to the max and look at the image thereon of the stamped "pressure seal," you will note that the outside ring formed by the seal is a perfect circle.

It doesn't take an expert to know that it is impossible to use such a seal on a flat piece of paper (the paper is automatically flattened via the application of the seal), fold the paper across the seal, take a photo of that paper in the folded position and end up with an image of a perfect circle such is portrayed in that photo.

In a legitimate photo, the arc of the circle on either sides of the fold would be slightly off kilter with one another due to the parts of the paper on opposite sides of the fold being at different distances/angles from the camera lens.

There are only two ways to create such a photo showing a perfect circle.

One would be to apply the seal to a previously snapped photo of an already folded paper and then take a second photo that would include the perfect circle seal.

The other way would be to use a computer program to create all or parts of the image.

Either way, that photo is a fake.

packrat1145  posted on  2009-08-17   18:14:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#131. To: Jethro Tull, Rhino369 (#127)

Well done pack.

Thanks.

The problem is that no matter what evidence they are faced with, the opposition continues with their neverending barrage of misinformation as Rhino will prove...

packrat1145  posted on  2009-08-17   18:19:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#132. To: packrat1145 (#131)

The problem is that no matter what evidence they are faced with, the opposition continues with their neverending barrage of misinformation as Rhino will prove...

The art of the leftist mole....

Jethro Tull  posted on  2009-08-17   18:35:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#133. To: packrat1145 (#130)

A good analysis of the purported impression seal. To my mind, one could emulate an impression seal with pressing the paper against a coin.

The document made public by the Obama office last year had the bona fide impression seal - made with such pressure that tiny holes occur in the paper; FactCheck, among others, published a close-up of the seal from BOTH sides, there's an additional rubberstamp on the back.

This document on a red tablecloth has a very vague seal, perfectly round - like a coin, and not so sharp as to put holes in the paper - also like a coin, and not completely readable.

Shoonra  posted on  2009-08-26   20:29:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#134. To: Jethro Tull (#132)

The art of the leftist mole....

sss


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-08-26   20:45:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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