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Editorial
See other Editorial Articles

Title: Birthers Defend Obviously Fake Kenyan Obama Birth Certificate
Source: [None]
URL Source: [None]
Published: Aug 3, 2009
Author: http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2009/08/bir
Post Date: 2009-08-03 22:20:07 by tom007
Keywords: None
Views: 1328
Comments: 134

Birthers Defend Obviously Fake Kenyan Obama Birth Certificate

* 8/3/09 at 6:02 PM * Comment 8Comment 8Comments

Over the weekend, the leaders of the Birther movement forged a Kenyan birth certificate that they claim proves that Barack Obama was not born in the United States, and therefore is not legally president. Even though this was rapidly debunked, even by supporters of the Birthers, leaders like Orly Taitz, the Zsa Zsa of the lunatic fringe of the right wing, have still taken to the airwaves to proclaim victory. Of course, they're getting an increasingly hostile reception. In this clip, watch as Taitz goes off against MSNBC hosts, calling them "offensive," linking their behavior to Hitler's paramilitary "brownshirts," and proclaiming that they "will not be on TV for too long." Watching this video, we realized that it's not just the famous Hungarian actress and socialite that Orly reminded us of. There's someone else close to our hearts to whom (at least vocally) she bears an uncanny resemblance. If only we could put our finger on it.

Visit msnbc.com for Breaking News, World News, and News about the Economy

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#1. To: All (#0)

"Satan / Cheney in "08" Just Foreign Policy Iraqi Death Estimator

tom007  posted on  2009-08-03   22:47:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: All (#1)

Well this proves it for me. Obama is an alien from Mars.

With the "Swiftboaters" behind a lot of this, I really do not know what to say about the birthers.

Obama may be just crap or not, but this is just Nuttery. Evidently Zionist inspired Nuttery.

"Satan / Cheney in "08" Just Foreign Policy Iraqi Death Estimator

tom007  posted on  2009-08-03   22:53:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: tom007 (#1)

I love her accent.

Anti-racism is code for white genocide

Prefrontal Vortex  posted on  2009-08-03   23:01:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: tom007 (#1)

"Obama was born in Hawaii, the proof is there."

Does it matter? The guy is a sitting president.

buckeroo  posted on  2009-08-03   23:04:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: tom007 (#0)

Your reference doesn't work, ie, it gives HTTP 440

...with the power of conviction, there is no sacrifice.

rack42  posted on  2009-08-04   0:06:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: buckeroo (#4)

Does it matter? The guy is a sitting president.

Nobody takes an oath to the President. They take an oath to the Constitution.

If a usurper is in the White House, the Military, the FBI, the Federal Marshals, and DHS are all bound by their oath to oust him.

Assuming this pans out, you may see a civil war erupt within the FedGov.

Now, assuming this pans out (which I doubt, but it makes for good theatre) then the Supremes will have to get involved. If Congress and the Supremes maintain that Obama is President even though he is not qualified, watch the streets carefully. It will be a riot.

"We're looking for [Obama] supporters," said DeHaven of Hoover, one of the event's organizers. "We're not looking for a fight. That will come later, when we have an army."

mirage  posted on  2009-08-04   1:11:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: buckeroo, tom007 (#4)

"Obama was born in Hawaii, the proof is there."

Does it matter? The guy is a sitting president.

It is an established legal principle that the person who has committed a fraud should be allowed to profit from the fraud.

If Obama is proven to be not a natural born American Citizen then he is not and never has been President but is instead a Usurper.

The Oxford American Dictionary defines it thus: usurp verb - "take (a position of power or importance) illegally or by force." "Richard usurped the throne"

OR (my own) Obama usurped the Presidency by fraud.

There is no credible evidence in the public record showing that Oh'bummer was born in Hawaii. The Certificate of live birth does not count as it could be granted to someone born somewhere else such as Kenya - or like his sister, born in Indonesia, who also has a Certificate of Live Birth.

Explain why someone who is innocent of the charge would spend in the vicinity of one million dollars to hide the evidence of their innocence.

"I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician

Original_Intent  posted on  2009-08-04   1:30:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Original_Intent (#7) (Edited)

TwentyTwelve  posted on  2009-08-04   1:36:19 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: TwentyTwelve (#8)

Of course to the Kook-Aid drinkers there is no evidence - not even a Kenyan Birth Certificate is or would be sufficient to combat their delusions. However, they are funny to watch as they try to avoid the obvious conclusion: Oh'bummer is con-artist and is in the knowing commission of felony election fraud.

"I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician

Original_Intent  posted on  2009-08-04   1:52:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: TwentyTwelve (#8) (Edited)

Regarding the complaint that the birth document made public by Obama's office in 2008 had a blacked-out registration number and didn't have a seal: FactCheck.org went to the trouble of examining and photographing the document themselves.

FactCheck did produce photos showing the certificate's registration number. It had been blacked-out only because an Obama staffer worried that the number was an SSN or could otherwise be used for identity theft. It turns out (having checked with the Hawaii Health Dept) that the number is just a serial number of the certificate and can't be misused, so FactCheck had no qualms about showing it. FactCheck photos include an oblique view of the impression seal on the certificate, demonstrating that it was an original with the seal of the Hawaii Health Dept.

However anyone wants to quibble about the different title of this "Certification" - there is no legal distinction, and in fact the form itself cites two Hawaiian laws that say that this certificate is the legal equivalent of the original (1961) birth certificate and satisfies all the evidentiary requirements of that original. The document made public by Obama turns out to be the one and only certificate anyone born in Hawaii can currently obtain, and anything more elaborate requires a court order.

Regarding some other accusations made on the same list: The Executive Order issued by Obama dealt with Presidential records - not the Hawaii Health Dept records nor some school files - and updated a previous EO worked up years before in the wake of the Iran Contra scandal. Old Bush (number 41) had fudged on that old EO by simple bribery of the National Archivist, and this revision of the EO was done in an effort to prevent similar hankypanky by the departing Bush-Cheney administration.

Shoonra  posted on  2009-08-04   7:09:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Shoonra (#10)

People believe whatever they want to believe. About 20 to 25 percent of the public, including the majority on this 4um, did not ever want this man to run for office, much less be elected.

Another 25 percent are uneasy with him now that he is in office, especially at a time of nearly unprecedented economic crisis.

About half the public is invested in his presidency and will defend him, to some extent, from the lunatic GOP base (whose "Man of God"™ predecessor GW had a little something to do with causing the crisis, hard as it is for them to believe). But they will do so only half-heartedly, especially if the economy doesn't improve.

Polls have been done recently showing that the intensity level of the detractors far outweighs those of the supporters. And you can see this reflected on this 4um as well. As a nonvoter, I really do not understand the vitriolic passion against him just as the Southern Baptists who thought "Lord" Bush was a quasi-deity did not understand my vitriolic passion against him (although the vitriol, in retrospect, was more appropriately directed at Cheney, especially during the first term when he was running the entire shooting match).

The two personalities have this in common: the Constitution is a dead letter and a stage prop (only people living in the 19th century continually cite it as authority, in their world view).

So, to sum up, I'd say there's reason for hope for you chronic "aginners," as we may soon reach a point where the "center does not hold" and you will have your long-awaited civil war or something and can fight against all the returning war veterans as they try to haul you to the camps or something. They have already proven beyond any reasonable doubt that they WILL mindlessly follow illegal orders.

“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston

Sam Houston  posted on  2009-08-04   8:28:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: mirage (#6)

Now, assuming this pans out (which I doubt, but it makes for good theatre) then the Supremes will have to get involved

The US Supreme Court already had a hand in this matter. Didn't you watch in horror as John Roberts swore the new president into office? My God, he did it twice, too.

Last updated: 3:56 pm
January 20, 2009
Posted: 1:04 pm
January 20, 2009

WASHINGTON - Chief Justice John Roberts swore in President-elect Barack Obama as president of the United States on Tuesday with a slight stumble over the wording of the oath of office in the first of what could be many important interactions between two men who rose to their positions of power quickly and who have some background similarities, but whose politics differ.

Separated by a Bible used by Abraham Lincoln at his first inaugural, Roberts asked Obama: "Are you prepared to take the oath, Senator?"

The former Illinois senator indicated he was, and Roberts started reciting - and Obama repeating - the 35-word oath that is prescribed by the Constitution.

But at one point, Obama paused abruptly after Roberts reversed several words in the oath.

The oath includes the phrase "that I will faithfully execute the office of president of the United States" but Roberts didn't say "faithfully" until after saying "president of the United States."

Obama apparently realized that something was out of order.

With Obama not reciting, Roberts then repeated the phrase correctly, the brief awkward moment ended and Obama was back on track.

He was then the first to congratulate Obama on his new job.

The inaugural oath is the chief justice's sole responsibility on Jan. 20 - although it is a traditional role, not one set forth in the Constitution. But the affable Roberts and his conservative-leaning Supreme Court could have much to say in the years to come about Obama's most important policy choices.

Former President George W. Bush left the court with two relatively young and reliably conservative voices, those of Roberts, 53, and Justice Samuel Alito, 58. Roberts took his seat in 2005 and Alito joined him the next year.

Roberts is the youngest chief justice in more than 200 years. He easily could still be in his role a quarter century from now, long after Obama has left office.

He and Obama are similar in many ways. Both are late baby boomers. Roberts is 53, Obama 47. And both got their law degrees from Harvard and made rapid ascents to power. But their politics diverge sharply.

Roberts was an official in Republican administrations before becoming an appeals court judge and then chief justice under Bush.

Obama was one of 22 Senate Democrats to vote against Roberts' confirmation to the Supreme Court in 2005 - the first time a Supreme Court justice has sworn in a president who voted against him.

As president, Obama will try to use Supreme Court vacancies to counter Roberts' influence, either by replacing aging liberals with justices as young as or younger than Roberts or by changing the court's balance if a conservative justice retires unexpectedly.

Obama added the words "so help me God" to the end of the constitutional oath, following a practice established by George Washington and followed by most presidents.

The last time a chief justice swore in a president of a different party was in 1997, when Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist, a Republican, swore in Democrat Bill Clinton for a second term. Two years later, Rehnquist would preside over Clinton's impeachment trial in the Senate which resulted in an acquittal.

Obama didn't actually finish taking the oath until 12:05 p.m., five minutes after he actually became president under the Constitution. Clinton, in his first inauguration in 2001, also was five minutes late in taking the oath.

The Lincoln Bible used by Obama was on loan from the Library of Congress.

buckeroo  posted on  2009-08-04   10:11:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Original_Intent (#7)

There is no credible evidence in the public record showing that Oh'bummer was born in Hawaii.

Really?

So how does he have his Kenyan relatives dancing around a big_black_POT in the middle of the Lincoln room in the White House? Do you think the US government gives the front door keys to just any rif_raf wanting to stew some missionaries for a mid-night snack?

buckeroo  posted on  2009-08-04   10:16:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: buckeroo (#12)

Didn't you watch in horror as John Roberts swore the new president into office?

Assuming things check out, then he took the Oath of Office fraudulently. It would cause a Constitutional crisis because a usurper would be in the White House.

Whether or not he was sworn in would be irrelevent. He would be disqualified from office. The Constitution DOES have provisions handling this.

"We're looking for [Obama] supporters," said DeHaven of Hoover, one of the event's organizers. "We're not looking for a fight. That will come later, when we have an army."

mirage  posted on  2009-08-04   10:22:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: tom007 (#2)

Obama may be just crap or not, but this is just Nuttery. Evidently Zionist inspired Nuttery.

Could be. Orly gave several interviews from Tel Aviv yesterday and apparently is an Israeli citizen.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpLplBV8ybU

lucysmom  posted on  2009-08-04   10:35:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: lucysmom, bluegrass (#15) (Edited)

from Tel Aviv yesterday

well, well. i haven't listened to the youtube in its entirety yet, but one thing Orly said that was correct is the definition of native citizen as opposed to natural born.

otherwise, the fact that she was in Tel Aviv (and an Israeli citizen?) makes her suspect, imo.

christine  posted on  2009-08-04   10:47:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: tom007 (#0)

My take on the birther issue is that the 2-party fraud is using it to distract activist conservatives from the actions the Republicrat party has taken over the last 8 years. Keep them busy over an issue that can never be settled because the very same 2-party fraud refuses to produce the documents needed to put the issue to rest.

Once again, the 2-party fraud is playing the American voter like a Stradivarius.

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976

The purpose of the legal system is to protect the elites from the wrath of those they plunder.- Elliott Jackalope

F.A. Hayek Fan  posted on  2009-08-04   10:53:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: Hayek Fan (#17)

My take on the birther issue is that the 2-party fraud is using it to distract activist conservatives from the actions the Republicrat party has taken over the last 8 years. Keep them busy over an issue that can never be settled because the very same 2-party fraud refuses to produce the documents needed to put the issue to rest.

Of course the flip side, this issue undermines the authority of government and the press.

PaulCJ  posted on  2009-08-04   11:02:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: PaulCJ (#18)

Of course the flip side, this issue undermines the authority of government and the press.

The majority of voters are going to vote Democrat and/or Republican regardless of what happens or what the two party's do. Both party's know this.

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976

The purpose of the legal system is to protect the elites from the wrath of those they plunder.- Elliott Jackalope

F.A. Hayek Fan  posted on  2009-08-04   11:15:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: tom007, all (#0)

Orly Taitz

... it's not very far to Oily Taint.

High Hopes  posted on  2009-08-04   11:17:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: High Hopes (#20)

I'd still do her, if she ditched the wig.

Anti-racism is code for white genocide

Prefrontal Vortex  posted on  2009-08-04   11:33:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Prefrontal Vortex (#21)

and the false eyelashes ;)

christine  posted on  2009-08-04   11:54:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: christine (#22)

Ah well, I don't really mind a few illusions. I might not have noticed if you hadn't pointed it out.

Apart from the lack of a nasal sill, the only things I really can't stand are fat hands, fat feet/ankles, a fat face, and penciled eyebrows.

Anti-racism is code for white genocide

Prefrontal Vortex  posted on  2009-08-04   12:25:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Hayek Fan (#17)

Once again, the 2-party fraud is playing the American voter like a Stradivarius.

Keep one's opposition running in circles and stomping out small fires. This issue is a perfect foil for the easily distracted.

mininggold  posted on  2009-08-04   12:52:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: Original_Intent (#9)

Of course to the Kook-Aid drinkers there is no evidence - not even a Kenyan Birth Certificate is or would be sufficient to combat their delusions. However, they are funny to watch as they try to avoid the obvious conclusion: Oh'bummer is con-artist and is in the knowing commission of felony election fraud.

I'm sort of surprised you are this easily distracted by fluff. This issue is an energy waster and probably directed from overseas. And using Ms Orly as the lead queen can't be more telling.

mininggold  posted on  2009-08-04   12:59:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: mininggold (#24)

Keep one's opposition running in circles and stomping out small fires. This issue is a perfect foil for the easily distracted.

It would appear so

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976

The purpose of the legal system is to protect the elites from the wrath of those they plunder.- Elliott Jackalope

F.A. Hayek Fan  posted on  2009-08-04   13:00:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: mininggold (#25)

I'm sort of surprised you are this easily distracted by fluff.

Marguerite is pushing this stuff all the time on elPee - it must be in her mossad monthly work plan.

Fred Mertz  posted on  2009-08-04   14:02:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: rack42 (#5)

Your reference doesn't work, ie, it gives HTTP 440

Sorry.

"Satan / Cheney in "08" Just Foreign Policy Iraqi Death Estimator

tom007  posted on  2009-08-04   22:01:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Original_Intent (#7)

It is an established legal principle that the person who has committed a fraud should be allowed to profit from the fraud.

Well OK then. Maybe the word NOT was missing here?

"Satan / Cheney in "08" Just Foreign Policy Iraqi Death Estimator

tom007  posted on  2009-08-04   22:03:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: Original_Intent (#9)

and if found guilty of election fraud will McInsane and madam mukluk be charged for aiding and abetting?

The best gun to have, is the gun you have, when you need a gun.

IRTorqued  posted on  2009-08-04   23:08:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: tom007 (#29)

It is an established legal principle that the person who has committed a fraud should be allowed to profit from the fraud.

Well OK then. Maybe the word NOT was missing here?

Thank you. I stand corrected. Yes, there should have been a "not" there but instead it is not there.

"I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician

Original_Intent  posted on  2009-08-05   0:00:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: IRTorqued (#30)

and if found guilty of election fraud will McInsane and madam mukluk be charged for aiding and abetting?

Upon what grounds? McNutz may well have known as he obviously "took a dive" but proving it is another matter. Sarah appears to have figured out the score and objected to being so used - which is why they ramped up the smear campaign against her.

"I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician

Original_Intent  posted on  2009-08-05   0:03:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: Original_Intent (#32)

as neither one of them said jack about obammy's questionable origins prior to the election.

what do obammy, biden, McInsane and madam mukluk have in common?
they made the CFR approved candidate list. never mind not a one of them could legally be on the ballots in Texas.

The best gun to have, is the gun you have, when you need a gun.

IRTorqued  posted on  2009-08-05   0:17:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: Original_Intent, Tom007 (#31)

there should have been a "not" there but instead it is not there.

lol


"The trouble with people is not that they don't know but that they know so much that ain't so." ~ Josh Billings

wudidiz  posted on  2009-08-05   0:30:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: mirage (#14)

Assuming things check out, then he took the Oath of Office fraudulently. It would cause a Constitutional crisis because a usurper would be in the White House.

And Congress is empowered to handle the matter. They can play around as they empowered Ken Star, pussy-footing for blue dresses with some presidential anointment imbued on a few thread fibers or cut to the chase.

But this Congress is all Democrats, even the so-called republicans except for Ron Paul. Don't worry, even if your cracked-upped scenario were to pan out, they would refuse to impeach the liar in chief.

buckeroo  posted on  2009-08-05   22:07:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: buckeroo (#35)

Congress is empowered to handle the matter.

So are We the People if you remember your 9th Circuit rulings.

"We're looking for [Obama] supporters," said DeHaven of Hoover, one of the event's organizers. "We're not looking for a fight. That will come later, when we have an army."

mirage  posted on  2009-08-05   23:20:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: mirage (#36)

Dismiss any court jurisdiction(s)on the matter. They can't even keep up with the new laws such as Congress giving away America to the Chinese based upon unrestrained rubber-stamping by "legal-authorities" in Washington DC.

buckeroo  posted on  2009-08-05   23:35:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: buckeroo (#37)

Dismiss any court jurisdiction(s)on the matter.

This was a 2A case.

"We're looking for [Obama] supporters," said DeHaven of Hoover, one of the event's organizers. "We're not looking for a fight. That will come later, when we have an army."

mirage  posted on  2009-08-06   0:22:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: mirage (#38)

Where? I have heard of nothing of the sort.

buckeroo  posted on  2009-08-06   0:28:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: mirage (#38)

I think you are the same fine person I have known on the Internet chat channels for years. I can tell by your bearing but not by any authentication process so this gives you capability to exploit me in any way you want.

Still, you are a mighty, fine poster. And I recognize your perspectives and if, even by chance and if I remember incorrectly you are "mirage" from the old liberty forum, man what a great day 'tis for all of us on '4um, even if some don't respond.

Are you the same, "mirage?"

buckeroo  posted on  2009-08-06   0:49:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: buckeroo (#40)

Are you the same, "mirage?"

I don't think I've been over to LF, but I have been on LP. I'm not into exploiting people so you have nothing to worry about.

To get back to the issue at hand, there was an opinion issued in a 9th Circuit ruling a few years ago where one of the justices stated that 2A was a "Doomsday Clause" written into the Constitution for those days when nobody would enforce the decisions of the Courts or a Government refused to stand down when voted out of office.

"We're looking for [Obama] supporters," said DeHaven of Hoover, one of the event's organizers. "We're not looking for a fight. That will come later, when we have an army."

mirage  posted on  2009-08-06   3:03:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: mirage, buckeroo, tom007, Prefrontal Vortex, rack42, Original_Intent, TwentyTwelve, Shoonra, Sam Houston, christine, Hayek Fan, PaulCJ (#6)

Nobody takes an oath to the President. They take an oath to the Constitution.

If a usurper is in the White House, the Military, the FBI, the Federal Marshals, and DHS are all bound by their oath to oust him.

Assuming this pans out, you may see a civil war erupt within the FedGov.

Now, assuming this pans out (which I doubt, but it makes for good theatre) then the Supremes will have to get involved. If Congress and the Supremes maintain that Obama is President even though he is not qualified, watch the streets carefully. It will be a riot.

For what it's worth...

strategyandwar.com/united...y_oath_of_enlistment.html

The wordings of the current oath of enlistment and oath for commissioned officers are as follows:

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).

"I, _____ (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God." (DA Form 71, 1 August 1959, for officers.)

packrat1145  posted on  2009-08-14   18:42:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: packrat1145 (#42)

good to see your handle again.


"If, from the more wretched parts of the old world, we look at those which are in an advanced stage of improvement, we still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised, to furnish new pretenses for revenues and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without tribute." --Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, 1791

farmfriend  posted on  2009-08-14   18:48:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: packrat1145, all (#42)

I tend not to bother with this issue for the same reason that I do not bother with the 9/11 issue, the OKC bombing issue or the JFK issue. Do I believe in each case that there were some government shenanigans going on? Hell yes. However, whatever those shenanigans are is being covered up by both sides of the two party fraud using the full force of the government to cover up what they chose to cover up. On top of that, it doesn't matter what evidence is found and presented because the government will either completely ignore it and act as if it's not there or they will investigate themselves and find nothing wrong. An example of this can be see in the Waco investigations.

As long as people continue to vote for the two party fraud the crimes perpetrated by this fraud will not see the light of day the the perpetrators will not face justice.

That's how I see it anyway. I'd just as well focus my energies on replacing the two-party fraud.

Welcome to freedom4um.

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976

The purpose of the legal system is to protect the elites from the wrath of those they plunder.- Elliott Jackalope

F.A. Hayek Fan  posted on  2009-08-14   19:25:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: packrat1145 (#42)

t I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform C

Well that is informative and interesting. Thanks.

"Satan / Cheney in "08" Just Foreign Policy Iraqi Death Estimator

tom007  posted on  2009-08-14   22:55:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: packrat1145 (#42)

It's like the three laws of robotics.

Anti-racism is code for white genocide

Prefrontal Vortex  posted on  2009-08-15   0:44:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: packrat1145, mirage, buckeroo, tom007, Prefrontal Vortex, rack42, TwentyTwelve, Shoonra, Sam Houston, christine, Hayek Fan, PaulCJ (#42)

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).

Couple of fine points:

The Constitution comes first.

The qualifier: "...according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. ..."

According to the UCMJ it is a Courts Martial offense to obey an illegal order.

So, this presents an interesting legal situation.

If a servicemember believes that the President is illegally in office and is not legally the President then accepting an order therefrom is accepting an illegal order and a punishable, under the UCMJ, offense.

As well since the Constitution of the United States is the Supreme Law of the Land one must make the decision when such a conflict arises as to which will be obeyed?

Were I still in uniform I know what my decision would be. The Constitution comes first, and the usurper is not legally President and thus any order emanating from him is an illegal order.

The question that the Officer Corps is morally, and by given oath, bound to resolve is do they have a duty to follow the orders of a President they believe to be falsely installed in office? Do they have the courage to actually defend the country against a domestic enemy when that enemy is, however falsely, infesting the highest office in the land?

"I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician

Original_Intent  posted on  2009-08-15   1:11:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: farmfriend (#43)

good to see your handle again.

Hello, old friend.

It's nice to see you, too. I probably won't be here a lot. I mainly stopped by because of the update on LP that I found posted here by palo verde; but, I'll probably post a little here until it's back up and running.

packrat1145  posted on  2009-08-15   21:29:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: Hayek Fan (#44)

Welcome to freedom4um.

Thanks.

I tend not to bother with this issue for the same reason that I do not bother with the 9/11 issue, the OKC bombing issue or the JFK issue. Do I believe in each case that there were some government shenanigans going on? Hell yes. However, whatever those shenanigans are is being covered up by both sides of the two party fraud using the full force of the government to cover up what they chose to cover up. On top of that, it doesn't matter what evidence is found and presented because the government will either completely ignore it and act as if it's not there or they will investigate themselves and find nothing wrong. An example of this can be see in the Waco investigations.

As long as people continue to vote for the two party fraud the crimes perpetrated by this fraud will not see the light of day the the perpetrators will not face justice.

That's how I see it anyway. I'd just as well focus my energies on replacing the two-party fraud.

Please don't take this as a personal affront; but, there is a huge amount of principle involved and that is extremely important because a lot of the very probems you describe are the result of politicians not standing on principle. How on earth are we to expect them to do any better if we fail to let them know how important it is to do so and show them by example.

A lot of the principle that is involved relates to the Constitution; which is the supreme law of this land we call home. How important is the Constitution?

packrat1145  posted on  2009-08-15   21:41:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: tom007 (#45)

I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform C

Well that is informative and interesting. Thanks.

You're quite welcome, Tom.

packrat1145  posted on  2009-08-15   22:03:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: packrat1145 (#50)

OMG! Look at what the cat dragged in ... it's a rat!

buckeroo  posted on  2009-08-15   22:21:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: Prefrontal Vortex, mirage, buckeroo, tom007, Prefrontal Vortex, rack42, Original_Intent, TwentyTwelve, Shoonra, Sam Houston, christine, Hayek Fan, PaulCJ, farmfriend (#46)

It's like the three laws of robotics.

The difference being that, so far at least, no robot exists with the capability of living up to any one of those three laws; whereas man has the capability to live up to all three. The only exception would be Law #2 if a case were to arise in which two humans gave the subject human opposite orders; in which case the subject human would have to choose which one to follow, thereby breaking that law regardless of his choice.

And that, my friend is why the Framers of the Constitution added the criteria that one must be a natural born citizen to that document's requirements for the office of president.

That is, no man can faithfully serve two masters. Ergo, no president can be allowed to be put in the position of having to choose between the USA and some other nation. If a man has dual allegiance split between the USA and any other country, there is no way to know which he would choose in a situation wherein if he choose the wrong course of action, great harm could come to this country and/or its citizens.

Being a natural born citizen and the presumed allegiance that comes with that status adds a measure of protection for America that cannot be gained in any other manner. While it is not guaranteed, it has been used for centuries as a qualifier; and, for more than 200 years, it has worked satisfactorily for us; yet, it is a protection this country can never have as long as Obama is allowed to remain in office because he has dual allegiance due to the fact that his father was a citizen of Kenya, a foreigner who was never a US Citizen of any kind.

packrat1145  posted on  2009-08-15   22:39:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: buckeroo (#51)

OMG! Look at what the cat dragged in ... it's a rat!

Hey buck.

packrat1145  posted on  2009-08-15   22:41:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: packrat1145 (#53)

Aren't you the protected LP defender of GWBush whom basically claimed time and again he was GREATEST President America ever produced for marching into Iraq for the claim WMD?

Or did you forget?

buckeroo  posted on  2009-08-15   22:57:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: buckeroo (#54)

This is getting to be like the solitary beach bum bar on the coast left with its lights on in a hurricane.

Every last refugee is banging on the doors.

Join 2x4 Tuesdays & protect your RKBA.
www.righttokeepandbeararms.com

randge  posted on  2009-08-15   23:10:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: randge (#55)

Every last refugee is banging on the doors.

It is a public forum and Christine DOES believe in giving people their say.

"We're looking for [Obama] supporters," said DeHaven of Hoover, one of the event's organizers. "We're not looking for a fight. That will come later, when we have an army."

mirage  posted on  2009-08-15   23:20:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: mirage (#56)

Oh, hell, I was just joshing.

This is Christine's place and not mine. The more the merrier & welcome all.

Tho' it does brown a fellow off a bit that some on the other place denigrate "4dum" and then show up here looking for their mates.

Join 2x4 Tuesdays & protect your RKBA.
www.righttokeepandbeararms.com

randge  posted on  2009-08-15   23:31:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: randge, packrat1145, christine (#55)

Packrat is one of the reasons why a number of us flew the "LP coup" back in 2004-5. Then, it was unamused whom got smacked and quickly created FU. Christine, later created 4um.

Although, I pray I am not intimidating, I do want others to know there is a history of comments on issues that have lead to our demise today. And playing or praying for one of the two sided head of the evil beast in Washington DC is not an answer or even a reasonable dialog; praying or laying with the two party system is only an excuse for future failure in America.

Today, packrat pretends the president is lying about credentials in office when in fact it is just an accentuation of his own perseverance of GOP flag waving.

buckeroo  posted on  2009-08-15   23:32:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: randge (#57)

Tho' it does brown a fellow off a bit that some on the other place denigrate "4dum" and then show up here looking for their mates.

No doubt said people will be reminded of this, correct?

"We're looking for [Obama] supporters," said DeHaven of Hoover, one of the event's organizers. "We're not looking for a fight. That will come later, when we have an army."

mirage  posted on  2009-08-15   23:36:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: mirage (#59)

I ain't said nothin' & mum's the word.

I love you like a another brother.

Join 2x4 Tuesdays & protect your RKBA.
www.righttokeepandbeararms.com

randge  posted on  2009-08-15   23:57:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: randge (#60)

I ain't said nothin' & mum's the word.

Don't stay too quiet!

"We're looking for [Obama] supporters," said DeHaven of Hoover, one of the event's organizers. "We're not looking for a fight. That will come later, when we have an army."

mirage  posted on  2009-08-16   1:30:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: mirage (#61)

No, I won't if it gets too dark and wierd.

Like your tag line. It has some bite.

Join 2x4 Tuesdays & protect your RKBA.
www.righttokeepandbeararms.com

randge  posted on  2009-08-16   1:33:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: randge (#62)

Like your tag line. It has some bite.

Assuming the link is still active, its an actual news article there.

I notice that all the so-called "Progressives" are now all fired up to boycott Whole Foods because their CEO came up with what looks like a workable alternative plan to HR 3200.

It must be worth looking into if the statists are up in arms over it.

"We're looking for [Obama] supporters," said DeHaven of Hoover, one of the event's organizers. "We're not looking for a fight. That will come later, when we have an army."

mirage  posted on  2009-08-16   2:33:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: buckeroo (#54)

Aren't you the protected LP defender of GWBush whom basically claimed time and again he was GREATEST President America ever produced for marching into Iraq for the claim WMD?

Or did you forget?

No...

packrat1145  posted on  2009-08-16   3:03:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: buckeroo, randge, christine (#58)

Packrat is...

Buckiepoo, you've been banned from enough places that most people know you well enough to understand why there's no need for me to even dignify your comments with a rebuttal.

packrat1145  posted on  2009-08-16   3:20:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#66. To: packrat1145 (#64)

No what? That you are are GOPer? Or that you begged for war around the world like Cal and Goldie-locks or what ever the fucking name she calls herself?

Why are you so humble? Did I crumble your self-image to just crash the party while Goldie exclaims her hardware and software don't work anymore? Why are you actually here on 4um? An't you permitted to view her new website? The all new LibertyPost website she is single-handledly creating while you lied for years and perpetuated dogma and stigma?

What kind and benevolent poster are you, anyways? Just a chum of Israel and the two-party system?

buckeroo  posted on  2009-08-16   3:22:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: packrat1145 (#52)

Packrat, you're here
great!
I am so happy to see you
Love, Palo

palo verde  posted on  2009-08-16   3:23:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#68. To: packrat1145 (#65)

So go .. and tell Sally .. another few thousand are coming to her from a benefactor. But you have never backed upped your goddamed claims leading America into illegal wars and duress other than your chants, "GOP is good" ... "DEM is bad"

Man, get the fuck away from my screen.

buckeroo  posted on  2009-08-16   3:26:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#69. To: palo verde (#67)

Packrat, you're here
great!
I am so happy to see you
Love, Palo

Hello, sweet Palo. Thanks for the kind welcome. It's always nice to see you!

packrat1145  posted on  2009-08-16   3:28:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#70. To: packrat1145 (#69)

sweet dreams my darling
see you tomorrow
Love, Palo

palo verde  posted on  2009-08-16   3:31:58 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#71. To: Hayek Fan, packrat1145 (#44)

As long as people continue to vote for the two party fraud the crimes perpetrated by this fraud will not see the light of day the the perpetrators will not face justice.

That's how I see it anyway. I'd just as well focus my energies on replacing the two-party fraud.

i agree completely. the other major issue that so many choose to ignore is the vote fraud perpetrated by the system. we do NOT have honest elections. we the people do NOT elect anyone. the presidential candidates are selected, imo, years in advance by the PTB.

read Votescam: The Stealing of America for a huge eyeopener.

christine  posted on  2009-08-16   11:16:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#72. To: packrat1145 (#52)

good post. you might enjoy this very well done explanation~

OBAMA ADMITS HE WAS BRITISH CITIZEN AT BIRTH - AS SUCH OBAMA IS NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN OF US (a clear explanation of the issue)

christine  posted on  2009-08-16   11:23:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#73. To: christine (#72)

good post. you might enjoy this very well done explanation~

OBAMA ADMITS HE WAS BRITISH CITIZEN AT BIRTH - AS SUCH OBAMA IS NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN OF US (a clear explanation of the issue)

Thanks for the kind words, Christine. I appreciate the link, too; and, have bookmarked it for future reference.

From that article:

"Don't be distracted by the birth certificate and Indonesia issues. They are irrelevant to Senator Obama's ineligibility to be President. Since Barack Obama's father was a Citizen of Kenya and therefore subject to the jurisdiction of the United Kingdom at the time of Senator Obama's birth, then Senator Obama was a British Citizen "at birth", just like the Framers of the Constitution, and therefore, even if he were to produce an original birth certificate proving he were born on US soil, he still wouldn't be eligible to be President."

That is all true.

However, while I agree the BC is irrelevant to Obama's eligibility, I think it would be a mistake to ignore that issue entirely.

There is no denying that, real or not, Obama's posted COLB will not make him a natural born citizen. Existent or not, an original long form BC will not either.

Still, IMO, legally proving the COLB to be a forgery would in turn prove that Obama is legally guilty of fraud; and that could well be the chink in his armor that might convince a court to take a closer look at what we know to be the greater fraud.

I think we need to go after Obama from every possible angle, leaving no stone unturned. We ought not to make things easy for him by limiting what we go after him on to just a few issues. We need to make him fight on every front possible.

Every million dollars he has to spend fighting the BC issue is a million he will not have to buy ACORN's help in getting relected in 2012.

I also have grave concerns that if Obama is allowed to remain in office even for the remainder of one full term that he will have so corrupted the system that he can't be defeated at the polls come 2012. If he's allowed a full eight years in office, I sincerely believe there will be no hope for America.

packrat1145  posted on  2009-08-16   13:34:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#74. To: packrat1145 (#73)

"Don't be distracted by the birth certificate and Indonesia issues

the author's point is that it doesn't matter where barry himself was born. he is not a natural born citizen because his father was a British citizen at the time of barry's birth. that is what defines natural born so he is ineligible.

christine  posted on  2009-08-16   18:39:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#75. To: christine (#74)

"Don't be distracted by the birth certificate and Indonesia issues

the author's point is that it doesn't matter where barry himself was born. he is not a natural born citizen because his father was a British citizen at the time of barry's birth. that is what defines natural born so he is ineligible.

Yes, I understand exactly what the author's point is, thanks.

However, that in no way changes my point of view that we should not give Obama a pass on any transgression, no matter how small.

By proffering the fake COLB, Obama is guilty of fraud. Fraud is a crime. No public official, including the person holding the title and occupying the office of president, is above the law and should be held liable if he/she commit a crime, any crime.

Regardless of its relativity to the eligibility issue, it would be wrong to ignore whatever other crimes Obama has committed, including the crime of fraud.

packrat1145  posted on  2009-08-16   19:49:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#76. To: packrat1145 (#75)

By proffering the fake COLB

Of course, you're fully prepared to prove that, right?

Tell me how you're going to do it. I'd love to know.

IDon'tThinkSo  posted on  2009-08-16   19:58:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#77. To: christine (#74)

the author's point is that it doesn't matter where barry himself was born. he is not a natural born citizen because his father was a British citizen at the time of barry's birth. that is what defines natural born so he is ineligible.

It may not matter today where this man was born, but it will eventually. To the most obvious idiot, his father is a British citizen, any person in this government who excuses this little known fact, is a TRAITOR to America!

If we remember their names, then we will know who to get rid of in the near future.

WEAVER

WEAVER  posted on  2009-08-16   19:59:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#78. To: WEAVER (#77)

It may not matter today where this man was born, but it will eventually. To the most obvious idiot, his father is a British citizen, any person in this government who excuses this little known fact, is a TRAITOR to America!

You only have one problem in life. Prove your allegations. So far all you have dome is point a finger at everyone but yourself.

buckeroo  posted on  2009-08-16   20:03:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#79. To: IDon'tThinkSo (#76)

By proffering the fake COLB

Of course, you're fully prepared to prove that, right?

Tell me how you're going to do it. I'd love to know.

The fake Obama COLB has already been proven to be a fake.

packrat1145  posted on  2009-08-16   20:07:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#80. To: packrat1145 (#79) (Edited)

The fake Obama COLB has already been proven to be a fake.

Which "fake" are you talking about, and who "proved" it?

Does the State of Hawaii know this?

IDon'tThinkSo  posted on  2009-08-16   20:07:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#81. To: buckeroo (#78)

You only have one problem in life. Prove your allegations. So far all you have dome is point a finger at everyone but yourself.

Apparently you have me confused with someone who gives a shit what you think I should prove. Explain yourself more indept and I might know what the hell your talking about.

WEAVER

WEAVER  posted on  2009-08-16   20:10:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#82. To: IDon'tThinkSo (#80)

Here ya go, here ya go

Tony Two Times  posted on  2009-08-16   20:26:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#83. To: Tony Two Times (#82)

Factcheck disagrees with you.

"Summary In June, the Obama campaign released a digitally scanned image of his birth certificate to quell speculative charges that he might not be a natural-born citizen. But the image prompted more blog-based skepticism about the document's authenticity. And recently, author Jerome Corsi, whose book attacks Obama, said in a TV interview that the birth certificate the campaign has is "fake."

We beg to differ. FactCheck.org staffers have now seen, touched, examined and photographed the original birth certificate. We conclude that it meets all of the requirements from the State Department for proving U.S. citizenship. Claims that the document lacks a raised seal or a signature are false. We have posted high-resolution photographs of the document as "supporting documents" to this article. Our conclusion: Obama was born in the U.S.A. just as he has always said.

Update, Nov. 1: The director of Hawaii’s Department of Health confirmed Oct. 31 that Obama was born in Honolulu."

You can also go here to see that actual copy with seal, fold, and everything.

IDon'tThinkSo  posted on  2009-08-16   20:34:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#84. To: IDon'tThinkSo (#83)

The director of Hawaii’s Department of Health confirmed Oct. 31 that Obama was born in Honolulu."

Who is this person, and what document is h/she referring to?

Tony Two Times  posted on  2009-08-16   20:39:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#85. To: packrat1145 (#75) (Edited)

agreed, but don't we have to go back to who vetted (or didn't) him in the first place? my belief is that everyone knows and it doesn't matter because HE was the selection.

we all know that the politicians pick and choose obeyance to the constitution for their own political expediency. this is just one more egregious slap in our faces. bush was candid when he declared that the constitution is just a goddamned piece of paper. that's what all these elites think.

some government for, by, and of the people, huh?

christine  posted on  2009-08-16   20:56:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#86. To: WEAVER, christine, Prefrontal Vortex, mirage, buckeroo, tom007, rack42, Original_Intent, TwentyTwelve, Shoonra, Sam Houston, Hayek Fan, PaulCJ, farmfriend, IDon'tThinkSo, Tony Two Times (#77)

the author's point is that it doesn't matter where barry himself was born. he is not a natural born citizen because his father was a British citizen at the time of barry's birth. that is what defines natural born so he is ineligible.

It may not matter today where this man was born, but it will eventually. To the most obvious idiot, his father is a British citizen, any person in this government who excuses this little known fact, is a TRAITOR to America!

If we remember their names, then we will know who to get rid of in the near future.

It's a technicality; but, Obama, Sr. was a Kenyan citizen and a British subject. But I believe your underlying premise is that because Obama'a father was never a US citizen of any kind, Obama never was, is not now and never can be eligible to be president; and, that premise is 100% correct.

Obama, Junior was also a Kenyan citizen until he reached age 20, according to Kenyan law; as is confirmed by his own website, fightthesmears.com via the following statement:

“When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom’s dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.‘s children.

Since Sen. Obama has neither renounced his U.S. citizenship nor sworn an oath of allegiance to Kenya, his Kenyan citizenship automatically expired on Aug. 4,1982.”

Rergardless of the validity of the Obama COLB and contrary to Obama's claims at other times and places, he had to have been a Kenyan citizen at birth for that Kenyan law to apply. IOWs, how could his Kenyan citizenship expire if he was never a Kenyan citizen...

packrat1145  posted on  2009-08-16   20:58:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#87. To: IDon'tThinkSo (#83)

Who is this person, and what document is h/she referring to?

come back, back

Tony Two Times  posted on  2009-08-16   21:06:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#88. To: packrat1145 (#86)

Rergardless of the validity of the Obama COLB and contrary to Obama's claims at other times and places, he had to have been a Kenyan citizen at birth for that Kenyan law to apply.

Well no wonder his material has vanished. He's the Bobby Sherman of politics, politics.

Tony Two Times  posted on  2009-08-16   21:09:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#89. To: packrat1145 (#86)

It's a technicality; but, Obama, Sr. was a Kenyan citizen and a British subject

Please Stay Focused America!

Obama, Sr. was a Kenyan citizen and a British subject

WEAVER  posted on  2009-08-16   21:15:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#90. To: WEAVER (#89)

Obama, Sr. was a Kenyan citizen and a British subject

bingo

christine  posted on  2009-08-16   21:17:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#91. To: christine (#90)

Thank you christine!

WEAVER

WEAVER  posted on  2009-08-16   21:39:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#92. To: christine (#85)

agreed, but don't we have to go back to who vetted (or didn't) him in the first place? my belief is that everyone knows and it doesn't matter because HE was the selection.

No, the Constitution is the supreme law of the land; and, as such, it is the controlling authority. Who did or did not vet him is irrelevent, as is the fact that he was elected. Whether or not anyone along the way dropped the ball; and, regardless of how many votes he got, no part of that process negates the Constitution. Nothing personal; but, neither does your belief.

we all know that the politicians pick and choose obeyance to the constitution for their own political expediency. this is just one more egregious slap in our faces.

Yes, but they have done so in large degree because we allowed them to.

Sadly, We The People have not been as vigilant as we should have been in paying attention to what has been happening; and, have allowed it to become the norm that our elected officials not only do not follow the Constitution, but to also not even understand the contents of that document. Indeed, far too few of us do, either.

bush was candid when he declared that the constitution is just a goddamned piece of paper.

For the record, Bush may have thought that; but, there is no proof he ever said it.

There is not even one shred of evidence that he did so except for third hand heresay. It was a rumor started by a leftist blogger who had no way to have any first hand knowledge of what was said in the meeting during which he claimed it was said. His claim was that someone in attendance at the meeting had told another person and that second party told him, the blogger. Like I said, third hand information with not a single one who supposedly repeated it (except the leftist blogger himself) ever being identified. I could prove that to you; but, it's not worth it to me now to worry about what Bush may have thought or said.

that's what all these elites think.

I agree; and, I include Bush as being one of those elites, though I don't believe he was evil as some portray him to be and certainly not on the same scale as Obama and others who are hellbent on destroying America. IOWs, I see Bush as having been grossly misguided in a number of ways; but, he also did some very good things. Obama, OTOH, has done no good and will not because his intent is to weaken America to the extent that it can be easily defeated by the Muslin Brotherhood.

packrat1145  posted on  2009-08-16   21:40:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#93. To: WEAVER, christine (#91)

"Obama, Sr. was a Kenyan citizen and a British subject"

bingo

Thank you christine!

BTW, The person you two are quoting says, "You're welcome..."

;-))

packrat1145  posted on  2009-08-16   21:48:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#94. To: IDon'tThinkSo (#80)

The fake Obama COLB has already been proven to be a fake.

Which "fake" are you talking about, and who "proved" it?

Does the State of Hawaii know this?

IDon'tThinkSoGood, are you an idiot in real life or do you just play one on Freedom4um,com?

packrat1145  posted on  2009-08-16   21:55:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#95. To: packrat1145 (#92)

Yes, but they have done so in large degree because we allowed them to.

Sadly, We The People have not been as vigilant as we should have been in paying attention to what has been happening; and, have allowed it to become the norm that our elected officials not only do not follow the Constitution, but to also not even understand the contents of that document. Indeed, far too few of us do, either.

absolutely.

There is not even one shred of evidence that he did so except for third hand heresay. It was a rumor started by a leftist blogger who had no way to have any first hand knowledge of what was said in the meeting during which he claimed it was said. His claim was that someone in attendance at the meeting had told another person and that second party told him, the blogger. Like I said, third hand information with not a single one who supposedly repeated it (except the leftist blogger himself) ever being identified. I could prove that to you; but, it's not worth it to me now to worry about what Bush may have thought or said.

oh? i wasn't aware of that.

christine  posted on  2009-08-16   21:59:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#96. To: packrat1145 (#94)

I see you're as big an asshole here as you are at LP.

IDon'tThinkSo  posted on  2009-08-16   22:04:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#97. To: packrat1145 (#92)

Whether or not anyone along the way dropped the ball; and, regardless of how many votes he got, no part of that process negates the Constitution. Nothing personal; but, neither does your belief.

Honestly, packrat, by that token a newly elected sheriff may continue to hold office even though subsequently it becomes known that he has been convicted of a number of felonies that would have prevented him from running or taking office.

I have no damned idea where this man was born or not born or what the citizenship was of whoever was screwing his mommy. Every day I care less and less.

But let's be clear on this: You cannot profit from the fruits of a fraud or other crime. A fraudulently elected official cannot continue to hold office - sheriff or president - even if he is elected unanimously.

Join 2x4 Tuesdays & protect your RKBA.
www.righttokeepandbeararms.com

randge  posted on  2009-08-16   22:06:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#98. To: WEAVER (#89)

It's a technicality; but, Obama, Sr. was a Kenyan citizen and a British subject Please Stay Focused America!

Obama, Sr. was a Kenyan citizen and a British subject

Fortunately, millions of Americans are focused.

Unfortunately, the media is ignoring that fact.

Fortunately, we have the Internet where we can learn the truth.

Bottom line: We have the advantage, IF we use it properly. Start emailing the facts to everyone on your contact list and asking them to do the same. If only ten people email to ten friends and those ten pass it on to ten of their friends, that will result in one hundred people being exposed to the truth. If those one hundred do the same, that's a thousand people seeing the truth. If that is repeated through ten levels, the email will have been sent to billions of people.

IOWs, long before the tenth level, many more than the total population of the USA will have had the opportunity to learn the truth.

"Other than God Almighty Himself, there is no greater force on earth than the collective strength of a properly informed American citizenry." - - - JT Mims

packrat1145  posted on  2009-08-16   22:10:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#99. To: packrat1145 (#98)

It's a technicality; but, Obama, Sr. was a Kenyan citizen and a British subject Please Stay Focused America!

Obama, Sr. was a Kenyan citizen and a British subject

Fortunately, millions of Americans are focused.

Unfortunately, the media is ignoring that fact.

Fortunately, we have the Internet where we can learn the truth.

I meant everty word when I said "stay focused America", I'm not talking about what the media is "ingnoring', we, those who are focucsed, we already know for a fact, they don't give damn, so why rehash old news?

You're only right about one aspect, the internet! How refreshing! As if this is a new revenue...

I do not mean to sound disrespectful, but please, for the multitudes of those who may be just awakening to what is unfolding in this country....keep it simple, don't polute your messeage with a lot of unnessessary garbage of no importance...just keep your message simple and the audience you seek will understand!

WEAVER

WEAVER  posted on  2009-08-16   22:26:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#100. To: packrat1145 (#98)

BORN IN THE USA?

Obama mama: 6 lost months
No documented record of whereabouts, activity leading up to baby's birth in '61

www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=106942

Itistoolate  posted on  2009-08-16   22:29:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#101. To: randge (#97)

I have no damned idea where this man was born or not born or what the citizenship was of whoever was screwing his mommy. Every day I care less and less.

And yet he's your president? You 'randge', got exactly the leadership you deserver, unfortunutely, your sort of ignorance fits perfectly in some communistic country...exactly where you should be!

WEAVER

WEAVER  posted on  2009-08-16   22:33:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#102. To: christine (#95)

bush was candid when he declared that the constitution is just a goddamned piece of paper.

There is not even one shred of evidence that he did so except for third hand heresay. It was a rumor started by a leftist blogger who had no way to have any first hand knowledge of what was said in the meeting during which he claimed it was said. His claim was that someone in attendance at the meeting had told another person and that second party told him, the blogger. Like I said, third hand information with not a single one who supposedly repeated it (except the leftist blogger himself) ever being identified. I could prove that to you; but, it's not worth it to me now to worry about what Bush may have thought or said.

oh? i wasn't aware of that.

Only because I believe you are a true seeker of truth... here is the orignal source for the rumor:

Bush on the Constitution: 'It's just a goddamned piece of paper'
By Doug thompson

Last month, Republican Congressional leaders filed into the Oval Office to meet with President George W. Bush and talk about renewing the controversial USA Patriot Act.

Several provisions of the act, passed in the shell-shocked period immediately following the 9/11 terrorist attacks, caused enough anger that liberal groups like the American Civil Liberties Union had joined forces with prominent conservatives like Phyllis Schlafly and Bob Barr to oppose renewal.

GOP leaders told Bush that his hardcore push to renew the more onerous provisions of the act could further alienate conservatives still mad at the President from his botched attempt to nominate White House Counsel Harriet Miers to the Supreme Court.

"I don't give a goddamn," Bush retorted. "I'm the President and the Commander- in-Chief. Do it my way."

"Mr. President," one aide in the meeting said. "There is a valid case that the provisions in this law undermine the Constitution."

"Stop throwing the Constitution in my face," Bush screamed back. "It's just a goddamned piece of paper!"

I've talked to three people who were either present for the meeting that day or had knowledge of what happened inside the meeting and they all says the President of the United States called the Constitution "a goddamned piece of paper."

None, unfortunately, are willing to go on the record in a White House known for retribution against those who leak information.

*************

"...in a White House known for retribution against those who leak information..." Convenient red herring, no? Trouble is, even if that were a true statement, it can't replace the proof that Thompson fails to provide for his claim of what Bush supposedly said.

Now... let's take a look at who apparently really is of the opinion, whether stated or not, that the Constitution is just a 'Goddamned piece of paper.'

Obama's citizenship: Another loony conspiracy theory
By Doug thompson

In the loony world of conspiracy theory nutcases, anything is possible and the most ludicrous of claims too often get passed off as fact.

Case in point: The incredibly stupid debate over President Barack Obama's citizenship.

Started by the right wing in a failed effort to prevent America from electing its first African-American President, the so-called "birthers" movement -- fueled by hatemongers, racists, bigots and the incurably stupid -- continues to spread discredited lies that Obama was born in Kenya or some other non-American locale.

Our current President was born in Hawaii, an American territory that became our 50th state. Hawaii confirmed it and, for normal people with a working brain, that should have closed the case.

But conspiracy nuts don't have functioning brains. They have out-of-control fantasies, fed by terminal insanity, driven by inane beliefs that anything that involves the government is a dark, X-Files conspiracy to destroy us all.

I recently ordered a certified copy of my birth certificate from the state of Florida. They sent me a computer generated document that looks a lot like the one produced by Hawaii to confirm Obama's birth. I took that document to my local Social Security office and asked if that provides proof of birth and citizenship.

Yes, they said. It does.

But proof of birth will not satisfy the lunatic fringe when it comes to supporting the conspiracy du jour. They need to feed their lurid fantasies that Obama is a puppet of Saudi Arabia, a pawn of the mythical New World Order (otherwise known as NWO) or part of some Zionist conspiracy cooked up by anti- Semites to support their hate and bigotry.

Sadly, the Internet -- which could function as a medium for spreading real, fact-based information -- is a hotbed for half-baked conspiracy theories, hate, racism and outright lies. Those who question Obama's birthrate will claim they are not racist, but many of them are. You find misinformation about his birth certificate on many white supremacy web sites but you will not find one credible shred of evidence that supports the birther movement on a site devoted to hard, cold facts.

As an American, I have serious problems with some of Obama's policies. I feel he is pushing the country that I love too far to the left and spending this nation into irreversible debt.

But I do not, for one second, doubt his birthright.

He's an American.

Anyone who buys into the claims of the birthers is a gullible fool.

*************

Is Thompson an honest journalist who really and truly believes in the Constitution himself? Or... is he just another leftist who will tell any lie to keep the liberal agenda alive and well?

I'll let you decide; but, I can you one thing... as many times as his claim about Bush has been repeated, not one person has ever come forward to say, "I'm Doug Thompson's source. I was at that meeting and I personally heard George Bush say what Doug Thompson claimed."

BTW, as I was finding all this once again (I used to have all this stuff bookmarked, but my HD crashed a couple of years ago), I remembered that at one time I had found where Thompson actually issued a retraction for his story about Bush. Shortly after that, he hid the link to that retraction and issued a statement saying he stood by the story... A few references can still be found to it by doing a search for "Bush on the Constitution" "Doug Thompson" +retraction; but I can't find an actual link to it now.

But, let's forget for a moment what Thompson believes and even overlook his politics. Just how good is his judgement as far as choosing what sources to rely on for his claims? I'll even allow Thompson to answer that question for us... Here's what he himself says about a source he claims to have depended for a period of twenty years...

packrat1145  posted on  2009-08-17   0:10:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#103. To: IDon'tThinkSo (#96)

I see you're as big an asshole here as you are at LP.

To paraphrase Popeye...

"wherever I yam..."

;-))

packrat1145  posted on  2009-08-17   0:20:44 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#104. To: IDon'tThinkSo (#96)

The fake Obama COLB has already been proven to be a fake.

Which "fake" are you talking about, and who "proved" it?

Does the State of Hawaii know this?

IDon'tThinkSoGood, are you an idiot in real life or do you just play one on Freedom4um,com?

I see you're as big an asshole here as you are at LP.

Oh, wait... now I get it!

You're probably a little miffed because I didn't give you credit for playing an idiot both here and at LP!

My apology for being so careless... ;-))

packrat1145  posted on  2009-08-17   0:24:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#105. To: randge (#97)

Whether or not anyone along the way dropped the ball; and, regardless of how many votes he got, no part of that process negates the Constitution. Nothing personal; but, neither does your belief.

Honestly, packrat, by that token a newly elected sheriff may continue to hold office even though subsequently it becomes known that he has been convicted of a number of felonies that would have prevented him from running or taking office.

Nope... I have no reason to doubt the honesty of your comment; but, that is the exact opposite of the meaning of my words. Please read my comment again.

I have no damned idea where this man was born or not born or what the citizenship was of whoever was screwing his mommy. Every day I care less and less.

I refuse to believe that you really mean that.

Because if you do, it can only mean that you either also do not care about what the Constitution says or you do not understand what it says relative to requirements for the office of president.

But let's be clear on this: You cannot profit from the fruits of a fraud or other crime. A fraudulently elected official cannot continue to hold office - sheriff or president - even if he is elected unanimously.

I am clear on it. I said as much... Please re-read my comment.

packrat1145  posted on  2009-08-17   0:38:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#106. To: packrat1145 (#102)

ok. you've convinced me. Thompson failed to source. i'm glad to get this information. i'll not repeat that "rumor" again.

Started by the right wing in a failed effort to prevent America from electing its first African-American President, the so-called "birthers" movement

and that tells me all i need to know about Doug Thompson and his bias.

christine  posted on  2009-08-17   0:57:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#107. To: christine (#106)

ok. you've convinced me. Thompson failed to source. i'm glad to get this information. i'll not repeat that "rumor" again.

Thanks.

Started by the right wing in a failed effort to prevent America from electing its first African-American President, the so-called "birthers" movement

and that tells me all i need to know about Doug Thompson and his bias.

Right. Surely, there's not a serious journalist in the country who doesn't know by now that Democrat Phil Berg is the one who first filed suit against Obama in the matter.

If any Republican had ever mentioned the issue before that, I'm not aware of it.

packrat1145  posted on  2009-08-17   2:44:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#108. To: Original_Intent, Prefrontal Vortex, mirage, buckeroo, tom007, Prefrontal Vortex, rack42, TwentyTwelve, Shoonra, Sam Houston, christine, Hayek Fan, PaulCJ, farmfriend (#47)

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962). Couple of fine points:

The Constitution comes first.

The qualifier: "...according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. ..."

According to the UCMJ it is a Courts Martial offense to obey an illegal order.

So, this presents an interesting legal situation.

If a servicemember believes that the President is illegally in office and is not legally the President then accepting an order therefrom is accepting an illegal order and a punishable, under the UCMJ, offense.

As well since the Constitution of the United States is the Supreme Law of the Land one must make the decision when such a conflict arises as to which will be obeyed?

Were I still in uniform I know what my decision would be. The Constitution comes first, and the usurper is not legally President and thus any order emanating from him is an illegal order.

The question that the Officer Corps is morally, and by given oath, bound to resolve is do they have a duty to follow the orders of a President they believe to be falsely installed in office? Do they have the courage to actually defend the country against a domestic enemy when that enemy is, however falsely, infesting the highest office in the land?

I read your above comment earlier; but, I don't think I ever got around to acknowledging it. I just wanted you to know I agree with you 100% on your synopsis. I will only add that what you have stated was the basis for Dr. Orly Taitz's Cook v. Obama et al.

packrat1145  posted on  2009-08-17   15:17:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#109. To: Original_Intent (#7)

"Obama was born in Hawaii, the proof is there." Does it matter? The guy is a sitting president.

It is an established legal principle that the person who has committed a fraud should be allowed to profit from the fraud.

If Obama is proven to be not a natural born American Citizen then he is not and never has been President but is instead a Usurper.

The Oxford American Dictionary defines it thus: usurp verb - "take (a position of power or importance) illegally or by force." "Richard usurped the throne"

OR (my own) Obama usurped the Presidency by fraud.

There is no credible evidence in the public record showing that Oh'bummer was born in Hawaii. The Certificate of live birth does not count as it could be granted to someone born somewhere else such as Kenya - or like his sister, born in Indonesia, who also has a Certificate of Live Birth.

Explain why someone who is innocent of the charge would spend in the vicinity of one million dollars to hide the evidence of their innocence.

Very good post. However, if I may, I believe a couple of corrections are in order, as follows:

Per, "It is an established legal principle that the person who has committed a fraud should be allowed to profit from the fraud." I thionk you probably meant to say, "It is an established legal principle that the person who has committed a fraud should NOT be allowed to profit from the fraud."

Also, where you speak of a "Certificate of Live Birth;" it appears you are referring to the COLB Obama's minions posted on the Internet. As such, when spelled out, it would be a "Certification of Live Birth" rather than a Certificate.

packrat1145  posted on  2009-08-17   15:31:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#110. To: packrat1145 (#109)

My bad - I intended to say "Not" and didn't catch when proofreading my post.

And yes to the second: COLB = Certificate of Live Birth.

Short on time gotta run.

"I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician

Original_Intent  posted on  2009-08-17   15:41:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#111. To: Original_Intent (#31)

It is an established legal principle that the person who has committed a fraud should be allowed to profit from the fraud.

Well OK then. Maybe the word NOT was missing here?

Thank you. I stand corrected. Yes, there should have been a "not" there but instead it is not there.

Sorry, I did not see the above to know you had already been made aware of the missing "not." I had assumed that were you aware of it that you might have corrected it via that great little feature called "Edit." ;-))

Seriously, that's one thing that freedom4um and GOPachy.com has that I love and miss having at LP. By the way, I sure could use some help at GOPachy discussing the Obama eligibility issue if you ever have some extra time. There aren't a lot of those articles posted there; but, the ones that are are mostly found under the category called "The Fourth Estate."

packrat1145  posted on  2009-08-17   15:51:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#112. To: WEAVER, packrat1145 (#105)

Every day I care less and less.

You 'randge', got exactly the leadership you deserver, unfortunutely, your sort of ignorance fits perfectly in some communistic country...exactly where you should be! - WEAVER

I refuse to believe that you really mean that.

Because if you do, it can only mean that you either also do not care about what the Constitution says or you do not understand what it says relative to requirements for the office of president. - packrat1145

In truth, I care a lot. This character in the WH, I hate to even say his name, makes me ill. The whole situation with the penumbra under which his record is cloaked is a travesty. I'm so white hot, it's giving me migraines, and sometime I wish the entire matter would go away. But it won't.

And anyone who propagates the ignorance that WEAVER shakes a stick at DOES deserve to live in a commie country.

BTW, sorry I misinterpreted your stance, packrat. I shouldn't post when I'm physically exhausted. I've been following this discussion for over a year now, and I'm really frosted over the fractiousness of the debate. I put the blame squarely on 'Bama and his men. Their actions constitute a vicious and unconscienable assault on our constitutional order.

Join 2x4 Tuesdays & protect your RKBA.
www.righttokeepandbeararms.com

randge  posted on  2009-08-17   15:56:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#113. To: Original_Intent (#110)

My bad - I intended to say "Not" and didn't catch when proofreading my post.

Short on time gotta run.

No problem, I didn't realize you were already aware of it.

And yes to the second: COLB = Certificate of Live Birth.

Right... COLB = Certificatecation of Live Birth. ;-))

From http://www.flick r.com/photos/23580873@N05/3201196892/:

"This is a copy of Barack H. Obama's Certification of Live Birth that he released through his web-site. It is clear to any person with reasonable intelligence that there are many glaring problems with this document. Furthermore, any educated person, who is willing to do a certain amount of research will soon realize that a Certification of Live Birth is not quite the same as a Certificate of Live Birth. The former is a short-form for the latter. The latter includes much more information such as the name/sig of delivery physician.

Barack Obama is not a Natural Born Citizen regardless of the authenticity of this insufficient document. According to his own smears web-site, he was a British subject at time of Birth because of his father's citizenship. He admits this on his OWN web-site."

packrat1145  posted on  2009-08-17   16:11:12 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#114. To: packrat1145 (#113) (Edited)

How many dozen times have I linked you to that pic and yet you still trot out the old picture to prove your case? Why are you intentionally bringing out old evidence instead of addressing the high quality evidence?

**Edited for piece of shit outdated browsers.

Rhino369  posted on  2009-08-17   16:33:32 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#115. To: Rhino369 (#114)

Could you make that a little bigger please? I can't quite make it out.

All of a sudden dissent is no longer patriotic.

4 givan 1  posted on  2009-08-17   16:37:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#116. To: 4 givan 1 (#115)

Could you make that a little bigger please? I can't quite make it out.

Upgrade to a real browser, it works fine in Firefox and Opera. You can check my html if you want.

Rhino369  posted on  2009-08-17   16:39:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#117. To: randge, WEAVER (#112)

I believe that when all is said and done, all three of us, and many more here and on other forums, are all on the same side. Hopefully, we can all resolve our personal differences over details.

BTW, speaking of details, I made the following statement in an earlier comment to WEAVER...

"It's a technicality; but, Obama, Sr. was a Kenyan citizen and a British subject. But I believe your underlying premise is that because Obama'a father was never a US citizen of any kind, Obama never was, is not now and never can be eligible to be president; and, that premise is 100% correct."

...however, after a little thought, I realize that WEAVER was correct in his statement that Obama was a British citizen. While I, too, was right in saying Obama was a Kenyan citizen and a "British subject," it appears that Obama was also accorded British citizenship via The British Nationality Act of 1948.

My point is that we are all different and sometimes see details differently. Sometimes we can be completely wrong on certain details; yet, be dead on in the greater scheme of things. Other times not entirely wrong; but, still slightly out of kilter; as I was in the above instance.

The most important thing to know is that Obama is a danger to America and we must somehow make sure he is removed ASAP; and, I believe we three can agree on that.

packrat1145  posted on  2009-08-17   16:46:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#118. To: Rhino369 (#114)

How many dozen times have I linked you to that pic and yet you still trot out the old picture to prove your case? Why are you intentionally bringing out old evidence instead of addressing the high quality evidence?

**Edited for piece of shit outdated browsers.

You conveniently forgot to mention that the "old evidence" came from the same source your "new evidence" does; and, that it was brought out because after they brought out the "old evidence" people were immediately able to see obvious discrepencies in that "evidence." This new evidence you so gullibly keep trotting out is just another fake they hope will make up for the mistakes they made in the original. Unfortunately for them, it only serves to prove the fakeness of them both.

packrat1145  posted on  2009-08-17   16:54:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#119. To: packrat1145 (#118)

Got any expert to show show these are fake? Or are you just pulling that out of your ass. Because it Obama showed fake documents, thats probably impeachable. Lets see it. An MS paint image circle things like assuming they called black people negros doesn't cut it. One expert please, just one. If you can produce a legit expert, with real credentials I'll never challenge you on birth bullshit again.

Rhino369  posted on  2009-08-17   16:57:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#120. To: 4 givan 1 (#115)

Could you make that a little bigger please? I can't quite make it out.

You should be able to click the image to enlarge it, 4G1.

Miss congeniality should have mentioned that since it's not noticable unless one happens to drag their pointer arrow across the image... But that wouldn't give him the opportunity to typically badger someone for something that is his own fault.

packrat1145  posted on  2009-08-17   17:00:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#121. To: Rhino369 (#119)

Got any expert to show show these are fake?

And we should take as gospel the forensic abilities of some Hawaiian bureaucrat who claims all is well with Barry's paper work?

Who else in government do you trust?

Jethro Tull  posted on  2009-08-17   17:04:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#122. To: packrat1145 (#120)

I was being facescious(sp) since the pic he posted showed up so big it whacked out the entire thread.

All of a sudden dissent is no longer patriotic.

4 givan 1  posted on  2009-08-17   17:24:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#123. To: 4 givan 1 (#122)

I was being facescious(sp) since the pic he posted showed up so big it whacked out the entire thread.

Gotcha. No problem...

packrat1145  posted on  2009-08-17   17:37:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#124. To: Itistoolate (#100)

Obama mama: 6 lost months

No documented record of whereabouts, activity leading up to baby's birth in '61

www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=106942

Interesting. Another example of how little real documentation we have about Obama's past. Thanks for the link.

packrat1145  posted on  2009-08-17   17:42:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#125. To: Rhino369, 4 givan 1, Jethro Tull, Original_Intent, randge, WEAVER, Prefrontal Vortex, mirage, buckeroo, tom007, Prefrontal Vortex, rack42, TwentyTwelve, Shoonra, Sam Houston, christine, Hayek Fan, PaulCJ, farmfriend, IDon'tThinkSo, Itistoolate, Tony Two T (#119)

Got any expert to show show these are fake? Or are you just pulling that out of your ass. Because it Obama showed fake documents, thats probably impeachable. Lets see it. An MS paint image circle things like assuming they called black people negros doesn't cut it. One expert please, just one. If you can produce a legit expert, with real credentials I'll never challenge you on birth bullshit again.

Happy to oblige. I'll be looking forward to hearing the "Golden Sounds of Silence" from you on this topic in the future.

Meet Sandra Ramsey Lines....

She's an expert Forensic Document Examiner whose Curriculum Vitae can be found here. Be sure to check out the links near the bottom of the page there.

Here is what Ms. Lines says about the image of Obama's COLB posted on line by his operatives:

"I have reviewed the attached affidavit posted on the internet from “Ron Polarik,” [PDF] who has declined to provide his name because of a number of death threats he has received. After my review and based on my years of experience, I can state with certainty that the COLB presented on the internet by the various groups, which include the “Daily Kos,” the Obama Campaign, “Factcheck.org” and others cannot be relied upon as genuine. Mr. Polarik raises issues concerning the COLB that I can affirm. Software such as Adobe Photoshop can produce complete images or alter images that appear to be genuine; therefore, any image offered on the internet cannot be relied upon as being a copy of the authentic document.

Upon a cursory inspection of the internet COLB, one aspect of the image that is clearly questionable is the obliteration of the Certificate No. That number is a tracking number that would allow anyone to ask the question, “Does this number refer to the Certification of Live Birth for the child Barack Hussein Obama II?” It would not reveal any further personal information; therefore, there would be no justifiable reason for oliterating it.

In my experience as a forensic document examiner, if an original of any document exists, that is the document that must be examined to obtain a definitive finding of genuineness or non-genuineness. In this case, examination of the vault birth certificate for President-Elect Obama would lay this issue to rest once and for all."

The above statement can be found in the sworn affidavit from Ms. Lines that has been entered into evidence in at least one of the Obama lawsuits. A still more detailed listing of Lines' credentials can be found by scrolling down below her statement. Please note that should that case go to trial, Ms. Lines would be subject to being found in contempt of court at least, and possibly guilty of purjury, if the information in that affidavit were to be found untrue.

packrat1145  posted on  2009-08-17   17:46:28 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#126. To: packrat1145 (#125)

"I have reviewed the attached affidavit posted on the internet from “Ron Polarik,” [PDF] who has declined to provide his name because of a number of death threats he has received. After my review and based on my years of experience, I can state with certainty that the COLB presented on the internet by the various groups, which include the “Daily Kos,” the Obama Campaign, “Factcheck.org” and others cannot be relied upon as genuine. Mr. Polarik raises issues concerning the COLB that I can affirm. Software such as Adobe Photoshop can produce complete images or alter images that appear to be genuine; therefore, any image offered on the internet cannot be relied upon as being a copy of the authentic document.

http://barackryphal.blogspot.com/2009/07/meet-ronald-jay-polland.htm

Polarik has been debunked as a fraud. That your nonexpert confirmed his findings only confirms she is a fraud. She has no credentials. No degree, she is just a former cop. She would not be accepted as an expert witness with this resume. She doesn't even list her employers. You'll have to do better than this.

And if you actually read your copy and paste you'd see she only confirms the picture was saved in photoshop.

"In my experience as a forensic document examiner, if an original of any document exists, that is the document that must be examined to obtain a definitive finding of genuineness or non-genuineness. "

One exists and I've provided a photo of it.

Rhino369  posted on  2009-08-17   17:59:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#127. To: packrat1145, I DontThinkSo, all (#125)

Well done pack.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2009-08-17   18:00:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#128. To: Rhino369 (#126)

Ping to #121

Jethro Tull  posted on  2009-08-17   18:01:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#129. To: Rhino369 (#126)

Wednesday, July 29, 2009

Meet Ronald Jay Polland

Allow me to introduce you to someone you may already know:



This is Dr. Ronald Jay Polland. He received a BA in Psychology from Florida State University in 1970, a Masters in Educational Research from FSU in 1972, and a Doctorate in Instructional Systems from FSU in 1978. His curriculum vitae lists the other accomplishments he finds noteworthy. He holds himself out as an expert on surveys and market research.

As of a few years ago, he worked in the Office of Institutional Research at the University of North Florida, where he helped conduct surveys and generate statistical reports. For instance, he wrote this Satisfaction Survey of A & P Employees. Polland is not currently listed as being on staff with that office, and it is unclear what his current occupation is.

However, surveys and statistical reports are not the only aspect of his life. He is the "President and Founder of Dr. RJP Consulting, an international consulting firm," begun in 1989. Polland's previous corporation, Innovative Systems, Inc., was involuntarily dissolved by the state of Florida in 1988.

Polland also has deemed himself an expert on dating. As he writes on his MySpace page, he is an "Expert advisor on relationships, romance and .. dating," and describes himself as "a psychologist by training who has devoted part of his life to helping others with questions and issues related to .. relationships, romance and dating."

He writes the following about how he came to find and recognize this expertise:
"His interest and research into Internet dating began in 1995, the year following the end of his 23-year marriage. His search for a woman to date also brought him into contact with many others who had previously used the Internet to find romance. From his own experience and the experience of others, he noted that both men and women often misrepresented themselves on the Internet. He found that people often lied about their age, looks, background, and occupations to others they met online."

With its talk of online misrepresentation, I imagine this passage is more autobiographically ironic than it was perhaps intended to be. Because if you have not realized it yet:

Ron Polland is Ron Polarik.

As you can see, Polland/Polarik does have the educational degrees he named in his anonymous declaration. He does not hold the other degrees he has claimed: a Masters in Statistics, a Masters in Experimental Psychology, and a Doctorate in Experimental Psychology. Additionally, the proper title for his doctorate is Instructional Systems, not Instructional Media.

It is, perhaps, ironic that the one and only time Polarik accurately named and represented his degrees was in a document that he refused to sign either his real name OR his online pseudonym to.

Also, despite specific (yet contradicted) claims that he was writing under his real last name, or that "I never said that Polarik was a pseudonym," it can now be firmly acknowledged that 'Polarik' is not his real name. Which is, of course, in agreement with the other occasions when he did say that 'Polarik' was a pseudonym.

Given Polarik's history, I fully expect him to respond to this revelation by trying to direct attention to the discrete details he's given that weren't lies. The degrees that he does have, as opposed to the ones he made up, or the false insinuations of technical expertise that he tried to draw from his educational resume. If he addresses his naming at all, I expect him to attempt to convince people that a mere history of misrepresentation shouldn't make him untrustworthy. That people shouldn't doubt his expertise in computers and scanners simply because he's not actually an expert in those things.

Because as is readily evident from his C.V., his education, and his work history, Polland/Polarik has no discernible expertise in computer forensics, digital imagery, or document examination.

I feel I should repeat that with emphasis: Ron Polland/Ron Polarik has no discernible expertise in computer forensics, digital imagery, or document examination.

His trade is in statistics and surveys. He has no degrees relating to computers or technology. He is not a computer expert; he has used computers. He is not a scanner expert; he has used scanners. At best, he is an amateur photography buff. He may have a doctorate, true, but it is in a field wholly unrelated to computer technology. Just see Florida State University's program profile. Even had he signed his real name to his 'XXXXXXXXX' declaration, he still would not have qualified as an expert in the field in which he was attempting to provide expert testimony. Polland would never survive a Daubert challenge, and any lawyer would be foolish to attempt to pass him off as an expert on these matters.

Thus, when Polarik was identified by Phil Berg as one of "three (3) Document Forensic Experts", this was a gross misrepresentation. A gross misrepresentation that Polland must not have minded, as he had his reports posted on Berg's website, without any comment or correction.

Contrast this lack of technological expertise with the credentials of one of his leading critics, Dr. Neal Krawetz. Krawetz holds a Bachelor's in Computer and Information Science, and a doctorate in Computer Science. His specialities are in computer security, software development, and computer forensics. Krawetz has given presentations on how digital images can be manipulated.

And what was Polland's response to this critic who has immensely more education and expertise with computers and digital forensics than himself? "[Krawetz is] a charlatan who falsely used his credentials to fool others into thinking that he is more than qualified to critique my research;" "He doesn't know what scanners can or cannot do;" and "I can say, flat-out, that Krawetz does not have anything close to the research skills I have."

Admittedly, Polland is correct on that last point; Krawetz does not have skills that are comparable to Polland's. Krawetz's relevant skills are far, far superior to Polland's. I refer any and all interested readers to Krawetz's criticism of Polarik's 'research'.

If all of this sounds comparable to the TechDude incident from last year, that's because it is. TechDude passed himself off as an expert in a field where he had no such expertise, declared that he'd made a bunch of stunning discoveries, a lot of people bought into his armchair 'forensic research,' and he was eventually exposed as a phony. They both even doctored their evidence. The reason why Polarik defended TechDude right up until the day he was exposed as a fraud was that Polland simply lacked the expertise to recognize TechDude's errors. Errors that Neal Krawetz, incidentally, did not miss.

The key difference between Polarik and TechDude is that TechDude only managed to pull off his charade for a month. Whereas Polland has managed to stretch his out for over a year.

Don't let him continue it any longer.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2009-08-17   18:12:00 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#130. To: Rhino369, 4 givan 1, Jethro Tull, Original_Intent, randge, WEAVER, Prefrontal Vortex, mirage, buckeroo, tom007, Prefrontal Vortex, rack42, TwentyTwelve, Shoonra, Sam Houston, christine, Hayek Fan, PaulCJ, farmfriend, IDon'tThinkSo, Itistoolate, Tony Two (#114)

How many dozen times have I linked you to that pic and yet you still trot out the old picture to prove your case? Why are you intentionally bringing out old evidence instead of addressing the high quality evidence?

**Edited for piece of shit outdated browsers.

By the way, if you click that pic to the max and look at the image thereon of the stamped "pressure seal," you will note that the outside ring formed by the seal is a perfect circle.

It doesn't take an expert to know that it is impossible to use such a seal on a flat piece of paper (the paper is automatically flattened via the application of the seal), fold the paper across the seal, take a photo of that paper in the folded position and end up with an image of a perfect circle such is portrayed in that photo.

In a legitimate photo, the arc of the circle on either sides of the fold would be slightly off kilter with one another due to the parts of the paper on opposite sides of the fold being at different distances/angles from the camera lens.

There are only two ways to create such a photo showing a perfect circle.

One would be to apply the seal to a previously snapped photo of an already folded paper and then take a second photo that would include the perfect circle seal.

The other way would be to use a computer program to create all or parts of the image.

Either way, that photo is a fake.

packrat1145  posted on  2009-08-17   18:14:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#131. To: Jethro Tull, Rhino369 (#127)

Well done pack.

Thanks.

The problem is that no matter what evidence they are faced with, the opposition continues with their neverending barrage of misinformation as Rhino will prove...

packrat1145  posted on  2009-08-17   18:19:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#132. To: packrat1145 (#131)

The problem is that no matter what evidence they are faced with, the opposition continues with their neverending barrage of misinformation as Rhino will prove...

The art of the leftist mole....

Jethro Tull  posted on  2009-08-17   18:35:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#133. To: packrat1145 (#130)

A good analysis of the purported impression seal. To my mind, one could emulate an impression seal with pressing the paper against a coin.

The document made public by the Obama office last year had the bona fide impression seal - made with such pressure that tiny holes occur in the paper; FactCheck, among others, published a close-up of the seal from BOTH sides, there's an additional rubberstamp on the back.

This document on a red tablecloth has a very vague seal, perfectly round - like a coin, and not so sharp as to put holes in the paper - also like a coin, and not completely readable.

Shoonra  posted on  2009-08-26   20:29:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#134. To: Jethro Tull (#132)

The art of the leftist mole....

sss


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-08-26   20:45:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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