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War, War, War
See other War, War, War Articles

Title: Analysts Expect Long-Term, Costly U.S. Campaign in Afghanistan
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy ... /08/08/AR2009080802283_pf.html
Published: Aug 9, 2009
Author: Walter Pincus
Post Date: 2009-08-09 10:14:59 by christine
Keywords: None
Views: 1056
Comments: 85

As the Obama administration expands U.S. involvement in Afghanistan, military experts are warning that the United States is taking on security and political commitments that will last at least a decade and a cost that will probably eclipse that of the Iraq war.

Since the invasion of Afghanistan eight years ago, the United States has spent $223 billion on war-related funding for that country, according to the Congressional Research Service. Aid expenditures, excluding the cost of combat operations, have grown exponentially, from $982 million in 2003 to $9.3 billion last year.

The costs are almost certain to keep growing. The Obama administration is in the process of overhauling the U.S. approach to Afghanistan, putting its focus on long-term security, economic sustainability and development. That approach is also likely to require deployment of more American military personnel, at the very least to train additional Afghan security forces.

Later this month, Gen. Stanley A. McChrystal, the top U.S. commander in Afghanistan, is expected to present his analysis of the situation in the country. The analysis could prompt an increase in U.S. troop levels to help implement President Obama's new strategy.

Military experts insist that the additional resources are necessary. But many, including some advising McChrystal, say they fear the public has not been made aware of the significant commitments that come with Washington's new policies.

"We will need a large combat presence for many years to come, and we will probably need a large financial commitment longer than that," said Stephen Biddle, a senior fellow for defense policy at the Council on Foreign Relations and a member of the "strategic assessment" team advising McChrystal. The expansion of the Afghan security force that the general will recommend to secure the country "will inevitably cost much more than any imaginable Afghan government is going to be able to afford on its own," Biddle added.

"Afghan forces will need $4 billion a year for another decade, with a like sum for development," said Bing West, a former assistant secretary of defense and combat Marine who has chronicled the Iraq and Afghan wars. Bing said the danger is that Congress is "so generous in support of our own forces today, it may not support the aid needed for progress in Afghanistan tomorrow."

Some members of Congress are worried. The House Appropriations Committee said in its report on the fiscal 2010 defense appropriations bill that its members are "concerned about the prospects for an open-ended U.S. commitment to bring stability to a country that has a decades-long history of successfully rebuffing foreign military intervention and attempts to influence internal politics."

The Afghan government has made some political and military progress since 2001, but the Taliban insurgency has been reinvigorated.

Anthony H. Cordesman, another member of McChrystal's advisory group and a national security expert with the Center for Strategic and International Studies, told reporters recently that even with military gains in the next 12 to 18 months, it would take years to reduce sharply the threat from the Taliban and other insurgent forces.

The task that the United States has taken on in Afghanistan is in many ways more difficult than the one it has encountered in Iraq, where the U.S. government has spent $684 billion in war-related funding.

In a 2008 study that ranked the weakest states in the developing world, the Brookings Institution rated Afghanistan second only to Somalia. Afghanistan's gross domestic product in 2008 was $23 billion, with about $3 billion coming from opium production, according to the CIA's World Factbook. Oil-producing Iraq had a GDP of $113 billion.

Afghanistan's central government takes in roughly $890 million in annual revenue, according to the World Factbook. Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates has pointed out that Afghanistan's national budget cannot support the $2 billion needed today for the country's army and police force.

Dutch Army Brig. Gen. Tom Middendorp, commander of the coalition task force in Afghanistan's southern Uruzgan province, described the region as virtually prehistoric.

"It's the poorest province of one of the poorest countries in the world. And if you walk through that province, it's like walking through the Old Testament," Middendorp told reporters recently. "There is enormous illiteracy in the province. More than 90 percent cannot write or read. So it's very basic, what you do there. And they have had 30 years of conflict."

Unlike in Iraq, where Obama has established a timeline for U.S. involvement, the president has not said when he would like to see troops withdrawn from Afghanistan.

White House officials emphasize that the burden is not that of the United States alone. The NATO-led force in the country has 61,000 troops from 42 countries; about 29,000 of those troops are American.

Still, military experts say the United States will not be able to shed its commitment easily.

The government has issued billions of dollars in contracts in recent years, underscoring the vast extent of work that U.S. officials are commissioning.

Among other purposes, contractors have been sought this summer to build a $25 million provincial Afghan National Police headquarters; maintain anti-personnel mine systems; design and build multimillion-dollar sections of roads; deliver by sea and air billions of dollars worth of military bulk cargo; and supervise a drug-eradication program.

One solicitation, issued by the Army Corps of Engineers, is aimed at finding a contractor to bring together Afghan economic, social, legal and political groups to help build the country's infrastructure. The contractor would work with Afghan government officials as well as representatives from private and nongovernmental organizations to establish a way to allocate resources for new projects.

"We are looking at two decades of supplying a few billion a year to Afghanistan," said Michael E. O'Hanlon, a senior fellow and military expert at the Brookings Institution, adding: "It's a reasonable guess that for 20 years, we essentially will have to fund half the Afghan budget." He described the price as reasonable, given that it may cost the United States $100 billion this year to continue fighting.

"We are creating a [long-term military aid] situation similar to the ones we have with Israel, Egypt and Jordan," he said.

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#13. To: buckeroo, farmfriend, Original_Intent (#11)

It is about maintenance of stable markets ensuring tranquility on the home-front.

Stable markets at home depend on political and market stability abroad.

No one is a greater enemy of a stable international order than the fanatics at the controls of this country.

Stability? When do you remember stability?

You watch too many talking heads.

Join 2x4 Tuesdays & protect your RKBA.
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randge  posted on  2009-08-09   14:00:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: randge, farmfriend, Original_Intent (#13)

Stability? When do you remember stability?

When I was born, the Korean War was ongoing. So here is the timeline to address your question. And through this time, the US has been a founding member of just about every major world organization: from the UN to the WTO and World bank besides SEATO and NATO.

1950 Communist North Korea invades South Korea. President Truman sends American troops to defend South Korea. The U.S. goes on to lead forces from 15 other nations in the Korean War (1950–1953).

1964 The U.S. Senate passes the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution at the request of President Johnson. The Resolution approves U.S. military involvement in the Vietnam conflict.

1973 President Nixon orders a halt to offensive operations in North Vietnam on Jan. 15 and representatives from all sides sign a peace pact, ending the longest war in U.S. history. The last American troops depart by March 1973. I was involved in this silly war, too. Check out my home page if you have time.

1983 President Reagan orders an invasion of Grenada to establish order on the island and eliminate the Cuban military presence there. A U.S. peace-keeping force remains until 1985.

1989 The Berlin Wall comes down, marking the end of the Cold War.

1989 President Bush sends troops to Panama to depose and capture Manuel Noriega, who had been indicted for drug trafficking.

1991 Persian Gulf War—the U.S. leads a coalition of 32 countries to drive Iraq out of Kuwait, which it had invaded.

1993 Somalia A U.S.-led multinational force attempts to restore order to war-torn Somalia so that food can be delivered and distributed within the famine-stricken country.

1994 Haiti After Haiti's democratically elected president Jean-Bertrand Aristide is ousted in a coup in 1991, a U.S. invasion three years later restores him to power.

1994–1995 Bosnia During the Bosnian civil war, which begins shortly after the country declares independence in 1992, the U.S. launches air strikes on Bosnia to prevent ethnic cleansing. It becomes a part of NATO's peacekeeping force in the region.

1999 Kosovo Yugoslavia's province of Kosovo erupts in war in the spring of 1999. A U.S.-led NATO force intervenes with air strikes after Slobodan Milosevic's Serbian forces uproot the population and embark on a plan of ethnic cleansing of Kosovo's ethnic Albanian population.

2001 After the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, the U.S. declares war on terrorism.

2001 Operation Enduring Freedom—the U.S. invades Afghanistan and deposes the Taliban, who had sheltered terrorist leader Osama bin Laden.

2003 The U.S. launches Operation Iraqi Freedom, an invasion of Iraq, as part of the war on terrorism.

There has not been a day in my life where the USA has not been creating conflict or meddling/interfering around the world. But that is largely because the USA is a superpower and must exert presence to ensure homeland security. The obvious influence of the CIA has lead to this enormous disparity about real objectives and the results. As a nation, we are feared anymore. We have lost respect from everyone around the world. And I should know, too as I travel extensively and survey where I can.

buckeroo  posted on  2009-08-09   14:36:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: randge (#13)

Stability? When do you remember stability?

Gotcha...

Back in the 1930s we had stability for years.

Cynicom  posted on  2009-08-09   14:38:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Cynicom (#15)

Back in the 1930s we had stability for years.

But the place holder of government rhetoric and dogma besides action is to ensure stability. The believers of any government authority must be stunned by the mess these same charlatans have created.

buckeroo  posted on  2009-08-09   15:02:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: buckeroo (#16) (Edited)

buck...

It was such a mess that Roosevelt and his communist running dogs KNEW war was the only way out.

Proof...FDR had six long years to make repairs and things got worse. Henry Wallace started taking young pigs and plowing them under while people were hungry and some starving.

Can we afford to give Obama six long years????? I dont think so.

Cynicom  posted on  2009-08-09   15:17:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: buckeroo (#11)

We're probably quibbling about the issues on the margins. But I think that we can agree that the US wants to ensure that the energy that we are talking about flows south and west and not north and east.

From a macro perspective, the natural thing would be for it to flow to energy hungry Asia. The only way to ensure that it doesn't is have boots on the ground to maintain a presence and secure the ports and the pipelines. You have to have a raison d'etre for those troops to be there. That's why instability in the ME is preferable to stability. This suits our little "friend" (the only democracy in the Middle East™) just fine too.

There are those among us, and I would hope that I could number you among them, that feel that we have everything we need at home. What do we really need from other folks? Chromium?? If you add it all up, the US has the greateset concentration of hydrocarbons of any nation on Earth. If you add in our contiguous neighbors we could be sitting quite pretty.

Our lords, though, have no interest in peace and prosperity. Prosperity, or the prospect of it, is only of interest to them insofar as it provides them with a carrot to entice us into the endless wars that they have planned for us.

Join 2x4 Tuesdays & protect your RKBA.
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randge  posted on  2009-08-09   15:23:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Cynicom (#17)

Can we afford to give Obama six long years????? I dont think so.

We shall not abide such. Not on our lives.

Join 2x4 Tuesdays & protect your RKBA.
www.righttokeepandbeararms.com

randge  posted on  2009-08-09   15:25:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: randge (#19)

We shall not abide such. Not on our lives.

People were more stoic , more self sufficient, more self reliant in those days. The majority were tied to the soil.

None of those apply in these times. None.

Cynicom  posted on  2009-08-09   15:30:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: Cynicom (#17)

Proof...FDR had six long years to make repairs and things got worse.

Then Adolf Hitler became the world's nastiest man. The effort of war worked liked a charm. America stood at the outcome of WWII as the SUPERPOWER. Too cool, too. That's when the glorious manifestations of Truman came into being: the UN on the one hand and the CIA on the other.

buckeroo  posted on  2009-08-09   15:30:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: buckeroo (#21)

It went downhill when the world elite decided war was the answer to world hunger.

Cynicom  posted on  2009-08-09   15:32:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: randge (#18)

There are those among us, and I would hope that I could number you among them, that feel that we have everything we need at home. What do we really need from other folks? Chromium?? If you add it all up, the US has the greateset concentration of hydrocarbons of any nation on Earth. If you add in our contiguous neighbors we could be sitting quite pretty.

The only apparent energy source on the horizon are nuclear fuel rods. The costs are prohibitive and most commercial plants are state funded anymore through federal mandates for compliance with existing laws.

Even bio energy sources have proved, upon analysis to be a dream. The cost of corn and distillation processes do not include the actual cost of crop production and denial of probable food supplies; the cost of energy production for all these alternative methods is prohibitive.

I even have solar at my home kicking out 32KWHs/ day. This method removes me from the electricity grid but the initial costs are not for the common man. It will take me years to come to recoup the costs.

America has turned into a failure through massive regulation that has turned the nation into a international war machine frightened by everyone around the world.

buckeroo  posted on  2009-08-09   15:52:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Cynicom (#22)

It went downhill when the world elite decided war was the answer to world hunger.

Please remember the essential content of the article we are discussing. It is about further intrusion into Afghanistan by another ignorant elected president. And Afghanistan only has a population base of about 32Million, about one-tenth that of the USA; and it is one of the poorest nations on the planet.

American interests controlling the military actions there only want the pipelines. America could give a damned about world hunger in that hot, unbearable climate. Where is the water to turn farms into a gold mine?

Nope, it is all about the cross-roads of energy pipe-lines for energy consumption into Pakistan/India and the EU. The Taliban stand in our way.

buckeroo  posted on  2009-08-09   16:02:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: buckeroo, Cynicom (#24)

American interests controlling the military actions there only want the pipelines.

I disagree. Our only interest over there is poppy crops.


"If, from the more wretched parts of the old world, we look at those which are in an advanced stage of improvement, we still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised, to furnish new pretenses for revenues and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without tribute." --Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, 1791

farmfriend  posted on  2009-08-09   16:04:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: christine (#0)

As the Obama administration expands U.S. involvement in Afghanistan, military experts are warning that the United States is taking on security and political commitments that will last at least a decade and a cost that will probably eclipse that of the Iraq war.

Ya know, I was just think how cheaply this Seinfeldian "war-about-nothing" was costing us (cough, hack.)

"Experts"?? HELLO.

Are they now finally admitting what many of us have predicted the moment George W. Bush announced "Mission Accomplished" would be replaced by "OPERATION: Nation Building."

I'M "warning" that this latest "mission" - "OPERATION: Blood-Sucking Elites Rape America" will be in full swing until the year 2525.

Liberator  posted on  2009-08-09   16:36:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: sneakypete (#3)

We will still be there,protecting and supporting those parasites 30 years from now.

And for every one of those 30 years resenting out sacrifice and presence while deriding how stoopid America is.

Iraq's infrastructure will have been totally reconstructed while our own cities, bridges, sewer and water systems crumble.

What benefit are we getting out of this scam again? Oh that's right - the Bogeyman Man is dead and the 1500 year Muslim tradition of "DEATH TO THE INFIDEL" will change over night; Silly me - I'm a bit of a cynic.

Liberator  posted on  2009-08-09   16:42:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: Cynicom (#22)

It went downhill when the world elite decided war was the answer to world hunger.

I thought "war" was the answer to "control-the-sheep"?

Liberator  posted on  2009-08-09   16:43:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: farmfriend (#25)

The issues in Afghanistan have nothing to do with narcotics. And I have a Hookah to prove it although it is bit dusty.

buckeroo  posted on  2009-08-09   16:57:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: buckeroo (#29)

The issues in Afghanistan have nothing to do with narcotics.

Right, that's why we went to war on the taliban right after they cut off the opium trade.


"If, from the more wretched parts of the old world, we look at those which are in an advanced stage of improvement, we still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised, to furnish new pretenses for revenues and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without tribute." --Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, 1791

farmfriend  posted on  2009-08-09   17:55:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: farmfriend (#30)

Au contraire, my dear. America was attacked by al-Qa'ida directly from Afghanistan and all of the ME with the singular exception of Iraq. Those MFers needed their asses fried creating a war situation. Unfortunately, America had a snot-nosed braggart at the helm; he even ditched his military assignments during earlier years. Yet, as a liar in thief the asshole chose to misdirect that war effort in Afghanistan playing mummbly pegs with Saddam Hussein.

buckeroo  posted on  2009-08-09   18:24:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: buckeroo (#31)

As a racist nation, the chickens were coming home to roost. Certainly you agree.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2009-08-09   18:29:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: buckeroo (#31)

Au contraire, my dear.

The evidence is indisputable. We went to war over drugs not oil.


"If, from the more wretched parts of the old world, we look at those which are in an advanced stage of improvement, we still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised, to furnish new pretenses for revenues and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without tribute." --Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, 1791

farmfriend  posted on  2009-08-09   18:29:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: buckeroo (#31)

oh, so it was Al Qaeda who attacked us on 911?

christine  posted on  2009-08-09   18:42:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: christine (#34)

Yeah. It is indisputable. Puleze don't start the "truther faerie tale" again. This has been a fine thread so far.

buckeroo  posted on  2009-08-09   18:46:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: christine (#34)

And did we know that 6 months before when we approached the government of India about attacking Iraq?

And did we know it at the end of July 2001 when John Ashcroft's office announced he would no longer fly on commercial airliners specifying unidentified "threats"?

"I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician

Original_Intent  posted on  2009-08-09   18:47:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: buckeroo, christine, all (#35)

Oh, so Al-CIAda was able to wire the towers with nano-themates, commandeer multiple airliners (and with known incompetents at the stick fly them like Richtoften's Flying Circus), wave his majick Cell Phone three times and make WTC 7 fall down, while ordering the FBI to confiscate every one of the 32 surveillance videos surrounding the approach to the Pentagram the afternoon of 911 (none of which have ever been released 9 years after the fact), then through his agents in DC was able to convince Geeeeee Duhbya to have the structural members of the towers put under armed guard, prevent forensic examination of the structural elements, have them shipped out of the country to be melted (staying under armed guard even at the dump until they were out of the country), order Geeeeeeeee Duhbya to have all of Osama Ben Goldstein's family flown out of the country the next day, shred the ATC records, put a gag order (still in effect) on the Air Traffic Controllers who watched it unfold, and on and on with the anomalies .... That Al CIAda?

Oh, and how did Osama Ben Golstein create the molten metal pulled up six weeks after the towers collapsed - rub his majick lamp?

"I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician

Original_Intent  posted on  2009-08-09   18:59:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: buckeroo (#35)

Yeah. It is indisputable. Puleze don't start the "truther faerie tale" again. This has been a fine thread so far.

I'm a recent convert. I have a video you should see.


"If, from the more wretched parts of the old world, we look at those which are in an advanced stage of improvement, we still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised, to furnish new pretenses for revenues and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without tribute." --Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, 1791

farmfriend  posted on  2009-08-09   19:02:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Jethro Tull (#32)

As a racist nation, the chickens were coming home to roost. Certainly you agree.

Here is what I know and have always maintained: a pile of ignorant Muslims under the direction of Osama bin Laden bombed America. The common denominator for their attacks was the US government both about aggression in the ME and lackadaisical security here in America.

Trillions of dollars have been handily shelled out by tax payers to the FBI/CIA about learning this crap for years. And they failed. But of course, government always fails. But they are always the first to say they succeed.

buckeroo  posted on  2009-08-09   19:05:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: buckeroo (#39)

Here is what I know and have always maintained: a pile of ignorant Muslims under the direction of Osama bin Laden bombed America.

And you would be wrong.


"If, from the more wretched parts of the old world, we look at those which are in an advanced stage of improvement, we still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised, to furnish new pretenses for revenues and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without tribute." --Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, 1791

farmfriend  posted on  2009-08-09   19:13:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: Original_Intent (#37)

Massive publick pandemonium is not a direct function of government involvement. It is about the initial trigger mechanisms creating the excitement and tragedy and in the case of 9/11 the devastating effects that linger on. You can't find one thread of evidence concerning government conspiratorial involvement about 9/11; just futile attempts to bring cohesive forces after wards.

buckeroo  posted on  2009-08-09   19:14:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: buckeroo, Original_Intent (#41)

You can't find one thread of evidence concerning government conspiratorial involvement about 9/11; just futile attempts to bring cohesive forces after wards.

Yes actually you can. You really need to see this video. I was on the fence about this stuff until recently. Send me a mailing address and I'll send you a video.


"If, from the more wretched parts of the old world, we look at those which are in an advanced stage of improvement, we still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised, to furnish new pretenses for revenues and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without tribute." --Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, 1791

farmfriend  posted on  2009-08-09   19:17:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: farmfriend (#40)

Somehow, earlier on I knew that this thread would become majick truther faerie tale stuff for the weak of mind, brainless or infant minded. So go ahead and convince me. It better be good too.

buckeroo  posted on  2009-08-09   19:19:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: farmfriend (#42)

You already have my email addy.

buckeroo  posted on  2009-08-09   19:19:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: buckeroo (#44)

You already have my email addy.

Hard to mail a CD that way. Up to you.


"If, from the more wretched parts of the old world, we look at those which are in an advanced stage of improvement, we still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised, to furnish new pretenses for revenues and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without tribute." --Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, 1791

farmfriend  posted on  2009-08-09   19:21:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: farmfriend (#45)

What is the content or title? What is the Internet link?

buckeroo  posted on  2009-08-09   19:24:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: buckeroo (#43)

Somehow, earlier on I knew that this thread would become majick truther faerie tale stuff for the weak of mind, brainless or infant minded. So go ahead and convince me. It better be good too.

As I said I was very much on the fence. I believed the government line and didn't follow the truther threads. What little I did see was intriguing hence being on the fence. This video lays it all out very nicely. The CNN footage of the planes crashing into the buildings was interesting and of course the BBC announcing that building seven had fallen when it is clearly in the picture behind the reporter is also rather interesting.

I've got lots of good videos that show the government for what it is including cops posing as protesters trying to start a riot. Great stuff.


"If, from the more wretched parts of the old world, we look at those which are in an advanced stage of improvement, we still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised, to furnish new pretenses for revenues and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without tribute." --Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, 1791

farmfriend  posted on  2009-08-09   19:25:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: buckeroo (#46)

What is the content or title? What is the Internet link?

I'll have to get back to you on that, my copy seems to be missing. I think my son has it somewhere.


"If, from the more wretched parts of the old world, we look at those which are in an advanced stage of improvement, we still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised, to furnish new pretenses for revenues and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without tribute." --Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, 1791

farmfriend  posted on  2009-08-09   19:31:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: buckeroo (#46)

What is the content or title? What is the Internet link?

Found my copy. It's 9-11 Ripple Effect produced by William Lewis and Dave Vonkieist. I'm sure you can purchase it on line but I have no link.


"If, from the more wretched parts of the old world, we look at those which are in an advanced stage of improvement, we still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised, to furnish new pretenses for revenues and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without tribute." --Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, 1791

farmfriend  posted on  2009-08-09   19:33:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: buckeroo (#35)

omg. i never knew you were a believer in the .gov tale.

christine  posted on  2009-08-09   19:36:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: farmfriend (#47)

I've got lots of good videos that show the government for what it is including cops posing as protesters trying to start a riot. Great stuff.

But that is always after the fact. For 9/11, the US government was just an inept organization, non-caring about the original attack. It started from the top down, too.

Here is footage of GWBush reading about Pet Goats with a class of kids while being informed of the Twin Towers fiasco; he didn't give a damn:

These people in charge of government don't care. They think the world owes then a living.

buckeroo  posted on  2009-08-09   19:38:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: buckeroo (#51)

Here is footage of GWBush reading about Pet Goats with a class of kids while being informed of the Twin Towers fiasco; he didn't give a damn:

Actually that is not what you are seeing. Bush clearly stated many times he saw the planes hit the towers.


"If, from the more wretched parts of the old world, we look at those which are in an advanced stage of improvement, we still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised, to furnish new pretenses for revenues and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without tribute." --Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, 1791

farmfriend  posted on  2009-08-09   19:40:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: All (#51)

buckeroo  posted on  2009-08-09   19:42:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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