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Resistance
See other Resistance Articles

Title: The 'Second American Revolution' Has Begun
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://www.rense.com/general87/second.htm
Published: Aug 13, 2009
Author: Gerald Celente
Post Date: 2009-08-13 08:39:12 by Horse
Keywords: None
Views: 951
Comments: 83

KINGSTON, NY -- The natives are restless. The third shot of the "Second American Revolution" has been fired. History is being made. But just as with the first two shots, the third shot is not being heard.

America is seething. Not since the Civil War has anything like this happened. But the protests are either being intentionally downplayed or ignorantly misinterpreted.

The first shot was fired on April 15, 2009. Over 700 anti-tax rallies and "Tea Parties" erupted nationwide. Rather than acknowledge their significance, the general media either ignored or ridiculed both protests and protestors, playing on "tea bagging" for its sexual innuendo.

Initially President Obama said he was unaware of the tea parties. The White House later warned they could "mutate" into something "unhealthy."

Shot #2 was fired on the Fourth of July, when throngs of citizens across the nation gathered to again protest "taxation without representation." And as before, the demonstrations were branded right-wing mischief and dismissed.

The third volley, fired in early August, was aimed point blank at Senators and House members pitching President Obama's health care reform package to constituents. In fiery town hall meetings, enraged citizens shouted down their elected representatives. It took a strong police presence and/or burly bodyguards to preserve a safe physical space between the politicians and irate townspeople.

The White House and the media have labeled protestors "conservative fringe elements," or as players in staged events organized by Republican operatives that have been egged on by Fox news and right-wing radio show hosts.

In regard to this latest wave of outbursts, health industry interests opposed to any reform are also being blamed for inciting the public. But organized or spontaneous is not the issue. While most protestors exhibit little grasp of the complex 1000 page health care reform document (that nary a legislator has read either), their emotion is clearly real and un-staged.

Rightly or wrongly, the legislation is regarded as yet another straw on the already overloaded camel's back. A series of gigantic, unpopular government-imposed (but taxpayer-financed) bailouts, buyouts, rescue and stimulus packages have been stuffed down the gullet of Americans. With no public platform to voice their opposition, options for citizens have been limited to fruitless petitions, e-mails and phone calls to Congress all fielded by anonymous staff underlings.

Now, with Congress in recess and elected representatives less than a stone's throw away, the public is exploding. The devil is not in the details of the heath care reform, the devil is the government mandating health care. Regardless of how the plan is pitched or what is being promised, to the public the legislation is yet another instance of big government taking another piece out of their lives and making them pay for it; again telling them what they can or cannot do.

Though in its early stages, the "Second American Revolution" is underway. Yet, what we forecast will become the most profound political trend of the century ­ the trend that will change the world ­ is still invisible to the same experts, authorities and pundits who didn't see the financial crisis coming until the bottom fell out of the economy.

Trend Forecast: Conditions will continue to deteriorate. The global economy is terminally ill. The recession is in a brief remission, not the early stages of recovery. Cheap money, easy credit and unrestrained borrowing brought on an economic crisis that cannot be cured by monetary and fiscal policies that promote more cheap money, easy credit and unrestrained borrowing.

Nevertheless, Washington will continue to intervene, tax and exert control. Protests will escalate and riots will follow.

Fourth Shot of the "Second American Revolution": While there are many wild cards that could light the fuse, The Trends Research Institute forecasts that if the threat of government-forced Swine Flu vaccinations is realized, it will be the fourth shot. Tens of millions will fight for their right to remain free and unvaccinated.

Publisher's Note: The power of the Internet and new technologies is inexorably fermenting the "Second American Revolution." However widespread and emotionally charged, had the tax rallies, tea parties and healthcare reform protests occurred in years past, they might have been covered by the local media, but might not have made national headline news and thus would have died stillborn.

Now, with the ubiquitous camera-equipped cell phone, universal access to YouTube, and millions of twitters and tweets, the uprisings cannot be ignored, contained, managed, spun or edited down. The revolutionary fervor will prove contagious.

Can anything stop it?

Trend Forecast: Before the momentum of the "Second American Revolution" becomes unstoppable, it could be derailed through some false flag event designed to deceive the public, or a genuine event or crisis capable of rallying the entire nation behind the President. In a worst-case scenario, according to Trends Research Institute Director, Gerald Celente, "Given the pattern of governments to parlay egregious failures into mega-failures, the classic trend they follow, when all else fails, is to take their nation to war."

A false flag attempt, a genuine crisis, or a declaration of war, may slow the momentum of the "Second American Revolution," but nothing will stop it.

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#1. To: Horse (#0)

A false flag attempt, a genuine crisis, or a declaration of war, may slow the momentum of the "Second American Revolution," but nothing will stop it.

Spot on, Gerald !

Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces.

De La Boétie

noone222  posted on  2009-08-13   9:08:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Horse, all (#0)

Trend Forecast: Before the momentum of the "Second American Revolution" becomes unstoppable, it could be derailed through some false flag event designed to deceive the public, or a genuine event or crisis capable of rallying the entire nation behind the President.

There's danger here. You back a dangerous animal into a corner and he will come out fighting.

I just don't know if another false flag attack would have the effect they desire. Too many are aware of these events now.

This is one of the things we can thank Alex Jones for. In all honesty he did a good job of showing how they work. Now if he would only stop with the other bullshit...

.


Click for Privacy and Preparedness files

Pretend inferiority and encourage his arrogance. -Sun Tzu

PSUSA  posted on  2009-08-13   9:27:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Horse (#0)

Not a bad piece really.

Some things to keep in mind folks. I'm sure most of us are planning *NO* first strike or anything even vaguely provoking. It's a given, we're a peace loving people by and large, and that's a good thing. However, somebody somewhere is going to start something, whether from "our" side or from the FedGov/parasite side. Whether it's false flag or for real, chances are pretty high it's going to happen.

The best advice I can give, is men, make sure your family is well provisioned. Food, water, heat, shelter. If you haven't started stockpiling dry goods/canned food, do so now. Use sealable mylar bags with desiccants to remove oxygen, and place in 5 gallon pails and seal. Read up, RIGHT NOW TODAY, on long term food storage. Get lots of Heirloom seeds (the kind that grow like seeds are supposed to, and produce plants that create seeds that grow next year like they're supposed to, unlike most of today's commercial "hybrid" crap seeds). Get long term water filters. Learn how to purify water without fire. Get yourself a solar oven built (don't laugh, they cook well). Store at least a year's worth of food and a month's of water. Barrels (food grade) can be got off of craigslist for $5 to $20 each (55 gallon). Make sure you can heat your residence without power for extended periods of time. Make sure you have a lot of warm clothing that holds up even wet (wool). RESEARCH AND ACT NOW.

Once you've taken care of your family, the next item would be a good bug out bag, both for survival and light combat. Get a tactical vest. Make sure your rifles and pistols are in good working order. Get spare parts. Get lots of spare magazines and have them loaded for the next few months at least (and preferably stowed in your tactical vest). Get a military cleaning kit. Make sure you have one main battle rifle and one pistol. Knives. Ammo. Water. Food. Poncho, rope, emergency blankets. LED flashlights. Whatever else you feel you can carry alone. Maps. Compass. GPS if you can.

Be ready to run out in the middle of the night.

Go from there. Suggestions from others would be great.

SonOfLiberty  posted on  2009-08-13   9:49:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Horse (#0)

Why were there no protests when Big Gubmint mandated perpetual war after the 9/11 false flag? That's why the country's broke.

Oh yeah. There WERE a few protests, but the media blacked them out.

“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston

Sam Houston  posted on  2009-08-13   9:50:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Horse (#0)

Trend Forecast: Conditions will continue to deteriorate. The global economy is terminally ill. The recession is in a brief remission, not the early stages of recovery.

This is only partially true. Parts of the world never even went into recession (e.g., China).

It is the United States which will never come out of recession and will remain Third World from now on. "We" are not as "indispensable" to the rest of the world as Madeleine Al(Half)bright and other "American exceptionalists" think.

All "we" can do anymore is destroy it. In that respect, "we" are much like our parasitic controller, Israel.

“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston

Sam Houston  posted on  2009-08-13   10:01:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Horse (#0)

The Second Amernment is going to lose in this debate. Your guy in New Hampshire didn't do it any favors.

war  posted on  2009-08-13   10:03:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Sam Houston (#5)

Parts of the world never even went into recession (e.g., China).

Communists never state the truth if it is harmful to their image.

PaulCJ  posted on  2009-08-13   10:39:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: war (#6)

The Second Amernment is going to lose in this debate.

And how did you come to that conclusion?

PaulCJ  posted on  2009-08-13   10:40:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: PaulCJ (#8)

And how did you come to that conclusion?

Becasue of the lack of common sense.

Carrying a firearm as you stand in opposition at a Presidential rally and then promoting that guy as a hero?

war  posted on  2009-08-13   10:42:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: war (#9)

1. Becasue of the lack of common sense.

2. Carrying a firearm as you stand in opposition at a Presidential rally and then promoting that guy as a hero?

1. According to a Times poll yesterday, 80 percent of the people are against Obamacare. Yet, the politicians attack the people for questioning a bill that the politicians themselves openly admit they have not read.

It is your politicians that lack common sense.

2. In most states, if it was on the street, he has the right to carry a gun. Do you support the Bill of Rights or not?

PaulCJ  posted on  2009-08-13   11:02:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: war, PaulCJ (#6)

The Second Amernment is going to lose in this debate. Your guy in New Hampshire didn't do it any favors.

You demonstrate that the Second remains an accurate litmus for statist liberals.

TooConservative  posted on  2009-08-13   11:18:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: PaulCJ (#7)

Ron Paul economic adviser Peter Schiff must be a Communist then. He has just launched a mutual fund to invest solely in mainland Chinese companies.

He was singing China's praises last night on his shortwave/Internet show. He said there was way more economic freedom in China than in the U.S.

Peter Schiff on China

“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston

Sam Houston  posted on  2009-08-13   11:19:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: TooConservative (#11)

You demonstrate that the Second remains an accurate litmus for statist liberals.

Nope. I demonstrate how the swell of public sentiment is moving against "...my cold dead fingers..."

Story warned the republic that keeping and bearing were contigent upon regulation and DISCIPLNE and that ignoring this would imperil the "right".

Someone else - not sure who - once observed that "the Bill of Rights are just amendments" implying they could be repealed and repealed they can be and while I may not agree with the implied threat behind that observation I can tell you that I fear it.

--I Brake For The Invisible

war  posted on  2009-08-13   11:50:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: PaulCJ (#10)

According to a Times poll yesterday, 80 percent of the people are against Obamacare.

I doubt it's that high. And it's easy to be against something when it's been wholly misrepresented...e.g....the end of private insurance...Death Panels...

--I Brake For The Invisible

war  posted on  2009-08-13   11:52:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: PaulCJ (#10)

If he has the "right" why was it necessary to pass a law so declaring?

--I Brake For The Invisible

war  posted on  2009-08-13   11:53:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: noone222 (#1)

A false flag attempt, a genuine crisis, or a declaration of war, may slow the momentum of the "Second American Revolution," but nothing will stop it. Spot on, Gerald !

Horribly, something like "Jericho" on some unknown scale might occur. Remember, in Jericho, Halliburton/KBR, Blackwater and the DHS were the bad guys.

echo5sierra  posted on  2009-08-13   12:13:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: echo5sierra (#16)

Remember, in Jericho, Halliburton/KBR, Blackwater and the DHS were the bad guys.

I don't watch Mainstream Media [Tel avivision], but sounds like they have some of the enemies figured out correctly.

Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces.

De La Boétie

noone222  posted on  2009-08-13   12:18:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: echo5sierra (#16)

Horribly, something like "Jericho" on some unknown scale might occur. Remember, in Jericho, Halliburton/KBR, Blackwater and the DHS were the bad guys.

That is silly. Why would they destroy the country they already control? They'd simply get us in world war III if they wanted a false flag event. Someone like the Chinese. Big enough to scare the shit out of us all, but easily handled in a real war.

Rhino369  posted on  2009-08-13   12:27:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: war, PaulCJ, christine, TwentyTwelve, JamesDeffenbach, bluegrass, Lod, Cynicom, farmfriend, CadetD, IndieTX, randge, all (#14) (Edited)

According to a Times poll yesterday, 80 percent of the people are against Obamacare.

I doubt it's that high. And it's easy to be against something when it's been wholly misrepresented...e.g....the end of private insurance...Death Panels...

The problem of course is the serial dishonesty regarding Obamacare®. And who is doing the misrepresentation?

Obama's words and claims do not match what is written in the actual bills that are now circulating.

Oh'bummer can claim that it provides Green Cheese for All and if that is not in the bill it ain't going to happen. Conversely if Oh'bummer claims that some thing that is opposed is not what he is supporting BUT it is in the bill then that is the way it will be.

What we are seeing now is some sophisticated tap dancing with rigged "Town Halls" full of plants, and eliminating opposition voices, set up to toss softballs to Oh'bummer. In other words Oh'bummer, and his "crew", are seeding disinformation and intentionally confusing the criticisms of the hellthcare plan by adding inapplicable references and data. So as the right hand does one thing while the left hand distracts the rubes the actual bill will be very (Surprise!) different from the Liar-in-Chiefs calming platitudes. In other words the level of opposition is so strong that they cannot pass it claiming that it is supported by the citizenry and it becomes obvious that someone else is driving the agenda.

To be fair I would oppose ANY National Socialist Hellthcare plan but the level of dishonesty surrounding the current Trojan Horse is really quite stunning.

National Hellthcare means the government decides who gets what when and that it turn is controlled by those who control the government i.e., the usual suspects the Banksters and their Pyschiatrists. It is really that simple. In the current mix the Pipers dictating the tune are the Pharmaceutical Oligopoly, the Big Insurance companies, and a covert Eugenics/Population reduction Program. Any bill that emerges under the current circumstances will be for their - the elites - benefit not ours. As it stands now it would enshrine the AMA quacks, and Pharmaceutical based medicine as the ONLY approved forms of hellthcare thus eliminating those pesky Chiropractors, Naturopaths etc., ... with their low cost (and minimal to no side effects) alternatives to Big Pharma (again owned by the Bankster Familia). And people are increasingly CHOOSING those alternatives thus cutting into their profits and eventual control of ALL hellthcare for their eugenics programs. (The last estimate I heard was that approximately 51 percent of all discretionary health spending by consumers was upon alternatives to the AMA/Big Pharma combine.)

The real point of the National Socialist Helltcare program is CONTROL. By controlling Hellthcare they control what the public can receive, when they can receive it, and who can receive it. It also provides a vector for seeding population reduction toxins (sterilizing agents, disease, selectively withholding care, suppressing low cost non-pharma cures, etc., ...) all under the guise of "Public Hellth" and "cost reduction". Of course once installed if you don't cooperate it means you're insane and for your own safety and that of others you will have to be put on forced Psychiatric Drugs as only the insane would oppose forced drugging, deadly vaccinations, and population reduction through covert "medical" programs. Lost in the debate, intentionally, is whether this is even an area which the controlled National Government has any right to be in. But of course "it's for the children." (After all they have to kill off enough of the little bastards to cement their control.)

"I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician

Original_Intent  posted on  2009-08-13   12:52:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Original_Intent (#19)

Brilliant - thanks.

Iran Truth Now!

Lod  posted on  2009-08-13   12:56:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: Lod (#20)

Thank you.

"I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician

Original_Intent  posted on  2009-08-13   13:00:52 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: war (#15)

If he has the "right" why was it necessary to pass a law so declaring?

So you are saying the Bill of Rights is unnecessary? If you believe so, then you are ignorant of history.

PaulCJ  posted on  2009-08-13   13:04:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Sam Houston (#12) (Edited)

Ron Paul economic adviser Peter Schiff must be a Communist then. He has just launched a mutual fund to invest solely in mainland Chinese companies.

You misunderstand what I am stating. I was saying is that communist leaders will not say, nor allow to be said in the nation they are controlling, anything that looks bad for the communist leaders and their agenda.

We already known there have literally been thousands of labor strikes and riots in China over work conditions.

Now, do you understand?

PaulCJ  posted on  2009-08-13   13:07:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Original_Intent (#19)

To be fair I would oppose ANY National Socialist Hellthcare plan but the level of dishonesty surrounding the current Trojan Horse is really quite stunning.

It is also shocking politicians defend the fact that they refuse to read the bill.

PaulCJ  posted on  2009-08-13   13:10:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: PaulCJ (#24)

To be fair I would oppose ANY National Socialist Hellthcare plan but the level of dishonesty surrounding the current Trojan Horse is really quite stunning.

It is also shocking politicians defend the fact that they refuse to read the bill.

As long as they refuse then they can fall back on their old mea culpa trick to mollify the sheeple "that's in there? Why I had no idea."

"I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician

Original_Intent  posted on  2009-08-13   13:13:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: war (#13)

Someone else - not sure who - once observed that "the Bill of Rights are just amendments" implying they could be repealed and repealed they can be and while I may not agree with the implied threat behind that observation I can tell you that I fear it.

No, the Bill of Rights were those guarantees which were required by the states before they would ratify the Constitution.

They rank above any other amendments legally and the Constitution itself loses a substantial portion of its own legitimacy.

The Constitution has no legal moorings without the Bill of Rights. And you have no rights with it.

And you sure sound like someone who desires the repeal of the Second.

TooConservative  posted on  2009-08-13   13:55:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: TooConservative (#26)

And you have no rights with it.

Incorrect.

The Constitution (and BOR) guarantee rights we already posess as individuals. They do not provide us with those rights, they are not the source of rights. They simply recognize the rights we have inherent in us, and promise to act as a guarantor of said rights. Without that piece of paper, you'd still have every right listed in the BOR.

SonOfLiberty  posted on  2009-08-13   14:06:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: Original_Intent (#19)

bill that emerges under the current circumstances will be for their - the elites - benefit not ours.

Let's cut to the crux here...if that is so why is the STRONGEST and FIERCEST opposition coming from the BEST COMPENDATED segment of corporate health care?

--I Brake For The Invisible

war  posted on  2009-08-13   14:43:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: TooConservative (#26)

They rank above any other amendments legally

Wha...huh?

--I Brake For The Invisible

war  posted on  2009-08-13   14:45:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: TooConservative (#26)

No, the Bill of Rights were those guarantees which were required by the states before they would ratify the Constitution.

They rank above any other amendments legally and the Constitution itself loses a substantial portion of its own legitimacy.

The Constitution has no legal moorings without the Bill of Rights. And you have no rights with it.

And you sure sound like someone who desires the repeal of the Second.

While repealing the bill of rights would be a slap in the face to Americas legacy, it is possible to repeal them legally. No part of the constitution is uneditable. The first amendment could be repealed as easily as the inauguration was change from march to January, legally speaking.

Rhino369  posted on  2009-08-13   14:46:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: PaulCJ (#22)

So you are saying the Bill of Rights is unnecessary?

That isn't the law that he, himself cited.

--I Brake For The Invisible

war  posted on  2009-08-13   14:46:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Rhino369 (#30)

Which would affect our rights in no way whatsoever. We'd simply have to guarantee them ourselves as individuals. We'd still, however, continue to hold those rights. They're inalienable, you see. :)

SonOfLiberty  posted on  2009-08-13   14:49:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: SonOfLiberty (#27)

The Constitution (and BOR) guarantee rights we already posess as individuals. They do not provide us with those rights, they are not the source of rights. They simply recognize the rights we have inherent in us, and promise to act as a guarantor of said rights. Without that piece of paper, you'd still have every right listed in the BOR.

The only rights you have the rights you fight for, or we collectively fight for. Pretending you have inherent rights does nothing in the real world to give you real rights. In this Locke and Jefferson were being wrong or naive.

Rights are an man made creation. Nature has no need for rights as it has no will.

Rhino369  posted on  2009-08-13   14:50:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: SonOfLiberty (#32)

Which would affect our rights in no way whatsoever. We'd simply have to guarantee them ourselves as individuals. We'd still, however, continue to hold those rights. They're inalienable, you see. :)

They rather clearly are not inalienable. Nature doesn't care about you or your rights. In fact it doesn't care about anything, nor can it care.

Rhino369  posted on  2009-08-13   14:52:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: Rhino369 (#33)

I don't live by the law of the jungle, sorry.

All abstract concepts are human constructs. That does not mean that the abstraction of objective reality falls into the realm of fantasy. 1 + 1 = 2, even though math is an abstraction of objective reality created by the human mind.

Law exists to protect rights. Law does not instill rights.

Any other view, leads to tyranny and law of the jungle in short order. A world of brutes and thugs, rapes and murder and wanton slaughter for the joy of pain.

You are free to believe as you will. But if you (and a lot of friends) ever manage to repeal the BOR, I'm still acting according to the notion that I posses rights inalienable to my being. And so will most people.

SonOfLiberty  posted on  2009-08-13   14:58:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: Rhino369 (#34)

Nonetheless, I posses rights inalienable to my being. They're not yours to give or take, no matter how many guns you have.

This is axiomatic. You can fight me till you're blue in the face about it, end of the day, my rights are mine and mine alone and always mine, regardless of what you or others think about it. Make laws, repeal laws, hold a gun to my face, it doesn't matter, you simply cannot remove what cannot be removed. I am, we all are in fact, better than the brute animals and beasts of this universe. :)

SonOfLiberty  posted on  2009-08-13   15:01:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: SonOfLiberty (#35)

I don't live by the law of the jungle, sorry.

The reality of the universe isn't subject your wishes and whims. What you mean is you think there should be inalienable rights.

That does not mean that the abstraction of objective reality falls into the realm of fantasy. 1 + 1 = 2, even though math is an abstraction of objective reality created by the human mind.

Math is a way of modeling the real world. Your views on rights are you subjective opinion and they are in no way objective.

Law exists to protect rights. Law does not instill rights.

What reason do you believe that?

Any other view, leads to tyranny and law of the jungle in short order.

Irrelevant, but also not true.

A world of brutes and thugs, rapes and murder and wanton slaughter for the joy of pain.

Sounds like the real world to me.

But if you (and a lot of friends) ever manage to repeal the BOR, I'm still acting according to the notion that I posses rights inalienable to my being.

I don't want to repeal the bill of rights, I believe they are the source of my rights.

I'm still acting according to the notion that I posses rights inalienable to my being. And so will most people.

Like I said your rights are coming from your willingness to assert them. Not nature.

Rhino369  posted on  2009-08-13   15:09:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: Rhino369, SonOfLiberty (#34)

Nature doesn't care about you or your rights. In fact it doesn't care about anything, nor can it care.

If not from nature or programmed by God, from whom or what do you derive your "moral code"? Who should define "good"? "Evil"? "Right or wrong"?

OR, does "Might = Right"? IS peace "logical," Spock? Afterall, according to The Church of Darwin, no one deserves to live but the strongest.

Liberator  posted on  2009-08-13   15:11:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: SonOfLiberty (#36)

Nonetheless, I posses rights inalienable to my being.

No you don't. You claim to. It is simply your opinion.

This is axiomatic.

And I'm saying your axiom is false.

Rhino369  posted on  2009-08-13   15:11:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: Rhino369 (#37)

Sorry, I don't live by the law of the jungle.

You'll have to find somebody else to sell the notion to that rights come from government/law. I'm not buying it.

Sorry.

SonOfLiberty  posted on  2009-08-13   15:12:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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