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Title: Is there a natural anti-liberty mindset?
Source:
Rockwell
URL Source: [None]
Published: Aug 18, 2009
Author: Karen Kwiatkowski
Post Date: 2009-08-18 09:51:23 by ghostdogtxn
Keywords: None
Views: 278
Comments: 18
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#1. To: ghostdogtxn (#0)
There is no natural mindset per se. Everything we believe, we were taught. Every action we know is right, we know is right because we were taught and had it reinforced that it was right throughout our lives, or we discovered on our own through trial and error. The Founders and their kin, in today's society, would be not only "troublemakers", they'd not only be on terrorist watch lists, they'd be out in the streets either fighting or dead from conflict with modern authority. They had no "natural inclination against liberty", they were taught differently.
Has anyone picked up any children's books lately? Everything you see, for children, is about being like the rest of the herd. Not being independent of thought or spirit. Everyone needs to be like everyone else, and be LIKED by everyone else. I have watched literature change dramatically over the last 30 years. When I was a kid growing up, there were stories about individuals striking out against the grain, and now, everyone is fighting the urge to be independent, in order to help the rest of the group. People wonder why schools are failing to produce critical thinkers, and intelligent children. I have the answer. When a child is told that they must be like everyone else, it's a pass for them to be stupid, just like the rest of the herd. When I use the word herd, it's the truth. People are herd animals, they aren't individuals anymore. Everything is a team effort, and here's the real kicker, there's no incentive to do something extraordinary. The schools are where all of this nonsense has started and for at least the last 35 years, we've had nothing but betrayal at the hands of the educational system. You want change, throw out every book your child reads that smacks of the herd mindset. Make them read REAL books about real people that will inspire them to be better than the herd.
Better to be hated for what you are, than loved for what you are not.
So much truth in your comment.
"What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that its people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms....The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson
People are both social and individual beings otherwise we wouldn't have lived together in groups since the beginning of human history.
I agree with all you have said. The difference in society the way I see it is we older folks were taught right and wrong from our families and friends, they way they saw it. Tradition. The youngsters have been taught what the gov. thinks. Social Engineering. And without history noone would know what a real American stands for or represents. Hence why we tend to repeat so much and have such a great divide in social thinking.
"What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that its people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms....The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson
This is true. Uni-tribalism is rampant; Something is only "in" or "out" without various degrees. The herd-mentality is suffocating individualism amongst young people while the "rebellion" of rejecting piercings, tats, and the ghetto culture is frowned upon. When I use the word herd, it's the truth. People are herd animals, they aren't individuals anymore. Everything is a team effort, and here's the real kicker, there's no incentive to do something extraordinary...The schools are where all of this nonsense has started and for at least the last 35 years, we've had nothing but betrayal at the hands of the educational system. Yep. A generation of pods. Exactly the job of public school indoctrination. The gubmint must be proud.
We're social, without question. However, our methods of social interaction more resemble the pack mentality than the herd mentality. We have hierarchies, and we buck for position, and if consigned to a position aren't relegated to it forever, we try to climb again at opportune moments. Herds, you're born into it and your identity extends only as far as is necessary to distinguish you as a mother/father/protector and little else. Packs are social with a strong bent towards individualism, herds are the opposite (collectivist). Even the Chinese distinguish themselves individually from others in how they dress, act, laugh, etc. and they social climb as well, and they're the most conformist people on the planet. They can't even begin to match the behavior of a cow herd, socially.
well said, tommy. this has been the agenda for a very, very long time. it's funny though, growing up in the 50s and 60s, i never saw it. things seemed so much freer then.
Well now you want to talk historic. In those days people grouped with like minded individuals. Not forced to be around those we did not wish to be with. We may have to interact with others during the day but that should be the end of it.
"What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that its people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms....The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson
Well put comment SOL.
"What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that its people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms....The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson
Thanks man. I think that this is one of the reasons that traditions tend to work for us better than social engineering. You can buck a tradition, and many have, and formed new paths in life without alienation from the bulk of humanity, and since they do it voluntarily they can only try to convince others and hope that the others choose to join (very anti-herd). Hell, many of them are our heroes. On the other hand, social engineering demands conformity or punishment up to and including death (herd). And while it works for a little bit of time, it pretty much always ends in some kind of war or mass disobedience. As humans, even the most conformist of our societies cannot function without the underlying pack social framework.
I think that this is one of the reasons that traditions tend to work for us better than social engineering. You can buck a tradition, and many have, and formed new paths in life without alienation from the bulk of humanity, and since they do it voluntarily they can only try to convince others and hope that the others choose to join (very anti-herd). Hell, many of them are our heroes. On the other hand, social engineering demands conformity or punishment up to and including death (herd). And while it works for a little bit of time, it pretty much always ends in some kind of war or mass disobedience. As humans, even the most conformist of our societies cannot function without the underlying pack social framework. Another comment straight to the core. You're on the mark brother!
"What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that its people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms....The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson
Thanks again. :) These are all essentially independent observations from a guy who has studied human cultures and wolf/dog packs. None of it is backed by any kind of actual science that I'm aware of. It just seems to work out logically. There had to be a reason why wolves and humans paired as "friends" instead of "keeper and livestock". I've always suspected that it's because the dogs see us innately as pack animals and we see dogs the same, and we work our relationships with each other exactly as we do with our own kinds. We seem to operate according to the same principles, and have the same knack for distinct personalities and individualism, within a framework of social interaction with others of our kind. I think I may well have too much free time in life, lol.
treasure that. (i'm sure you do) it allows you the freedom to be a critical thinker and an individualist.
The demise began with the creation of the Department of Education in October of 1979 and gotten progressively worse every year since inception. However, I must disagree with your analysis of children's literature. The literature showing stories of individuals striking out against the grain are abundant. Inspiration is abundant at all reading levels. The problem is children read much less these days and parents read less to their children when they are little. Children learn to be life long readers from example and great books abound. There is no shortage.
And I do, thank you. :) I've often considered it somewhat of a loss that we no longer really have a "bourgeois" leisure class any longer. The guys from the middle and upper classes who would have scads of free time and good means that allowed them to sit at home or travel, and tinker with intellectual pursuits. Not people paid to come to specific opinions, more like not paid, well off and exploring the world, both inner and exterior on their own without their energies being directed by others. Had this economic downturn not happened like it did, I was nearing the stage where I was about to enter that now defunct category (very early retirement). Alas, but for the economy! :)
The natural state of mankind is fascism, unless you are of superior Celtic ancestry, like Turtle.
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
#2. To: ghostdogtxn (#0)
#3. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#2)
#4. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#2)
People are herd animals, they aren't individuals anymore.
#5. To: SonOfLiberty (#1)
There is no natural mindset per se. Everything we believe, we were taught. Every action we know is right, we know is right because we were taught and had it reinforced that it was right throughout our lives, or we discovered on our own through trial and error.
#6. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#2)
(Edited)
Everything you see, for children, is about being like the rest of the herd. Not being independent of thought or spirit. Everyone needs to be like everyone else, and be LIKED by everyone else...I have watched literature change dramatically over the last 30 years. When I was a kid growing up, there were stories about individuals striking out against the grain, and now, everyone is fighting the urge to be independent, in order to help the rest of the group.
#7. To: lucysmom (#4)
People are both social and individual beings otherwise we wouldn't have lived together in groups since the beginning of human history.
#8. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#2)
#9. To: lucysmom (#4)
People are both social and individual beings otherwise we wouldn't have lived together in groups since the beginning of human history.
#10. To: SonOfLiberty (#7)
We're social, without question. However, our methods of social interaction more resemble the pack mentality than the herd mentality. We have hierarchies, and we buck for position, and if consigned to a position aren't relegated to it forever, we try to climb again at opportune moments. Herds, you're born into it and your identity extends only as far as is necessary to distinguish you as a mother/father/protector and little else. Packs are social with a strong bent towards individualism, herds are the opposite (collectivist). Even the Chinese distinguish themselves individually from others in how they dress, act, laugh, etc. and they social climb as well, and they're the most conformist people on the planet. They can't even begin to match the behavior of a cow herd, socially.
#11. To: phantom patriot (#10)
#12. To: SonOfLiberty (#11)
Thanks man.
#13. To: phantom patriot (#12)
#14. To: SonOfLiberty (#13)
I think I may well have too much free time in life
#15. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#2)
I have watched literature change dramatically over the last 30 years.
#16. To: christine (#14)
#17. To: ghostdogtxn (#0)
There's no place better thanTurtle Island.
#18. To: abraxas (#15)
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