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Title: Is there a connection between healthcare reform and gun rights?
Source:
Christian Science Monitor
URL Source: http://features.csmonitor.com/polit ... lthcare-reform-and-gun-rights/
Published: Aug 24, 2009
Author: Patrik Jonsson
Post Date: 2009-08-24 11:24:10 by buckeroo
Keywords: None
Views: 1883
Comments: 29
Atlanta Many people were startled to see a man bring an AR-15 assault rifle to the vicinity of a presidential town hall on healthcare in Phoenix on Monday. His intent, he told reporters, was to show his willingness to “forcefully resist” an overreaching government. He broke no laws, police say, and he was not a threat to the president. But it turns out there’s an actual connection between gun rights and healthcare reform, at least according to one gun lobby. Gun Owners of America director Larry Pratt says that a Democrat-sponsored government-run healthcare system with a centralized patient record database could keep guns out of the hands of “gazillions” of lawful Americans. “If this becomes law, there’s no place to escape” if the government wanted to use federal medical records to deem citizens “medically unfit” to carry a gun, says Mr. Pratt. “No trial, no due process, just gone.” Pratt’s critics agree there are some legitimate privacy concerns around having a central medical data repository. But they point to an independent 2008 report showing that 90 percent of so-called disqualifying records for a gun purchase are not in the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS). A central medical records system could, therefore, help enforce federal laws that ban those who have been adjudicated as a “mental defective” or who have spent time in a mental institution from buying a gun. Making sure that those who don’t qualify for gun ownership under federal law are identified “is the public’s business,” says Ladd Everitt, a spokesman for the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence, in Washington. “But just being sick doesn’t prevent you from owning a gun.” The fear of Uncle Sam seizing guns has been constant since the election of President Obama. Although the administration has not introduced any gun-control measures and national gun rights have, in fact, expanded since Mr. Obama took office, there’s an ongoing insistence – fueled by National Rifle Association president Wayne LaPierre and others – that the Democratic leadership is itching to take away gun rights. At the same time, concerns about issues such as the interplay between medical privacy and gun rights don’t necessarily amount to paranoia by gun owners, some legal scholars say. “I think [gun owners] regularly underestimate the degree to which their own views are taken into account, but what people hear and see is that there are very influential people who are given to making statements like, ‘I support the Second Amendment,’ but who don’t think it would prohibit confiscation of weapons,” says Dan Polsby, dean of the George Mason University School of Law and an expert on the Second Amendment. While the NRA has sided with background check reform, Gun Owners of America has historically opposed federal background checks for gun ownership. The organization says such checks overly burden lawful Americans and have no effect on criminal violence. Pratt says GOA, based in Springfield, Va., has not encouraged anyone to bring weapons to political protests. But he hopes more gun owners will make the connection between gun licensing and new healthcare proposals. “If I’d seen a dozen guys with guns all holding signs that say, ‘Socialized medicine equals gun control,’ I would’ve died and gone to heaven,” he says. Health and Human Services secretary Kathleen Sebelius and Vice President Joe Biden announced on Thursday that the White House is releasing $1.2 billion as the first step toward establishing national medical health records, as outlined in the stimulus bill. The federal government has set aside a total of $20 billion to implement electronic health records nationally, a gambit to improve care and cut costs. Centralized records could save $12 billion over 10 years, according to the Congressional Budget Office. “Expanding the use of electronic health records is fundamental to reforming our healthcare system,” Ms. Sebelius said in a statement. “Putting into place safeguards for the privacy and security of this information, when it is in electronic form, will be an ongoing priority that influences and guides all of our efforts,” writes Dr. David Blumenthal, the White House’s national coordinator for Health Information Technology, in an Aug. 20 commentary.
Poster Comment: In addition, there is to be a White House Health Care Czar named to review all aspects of the new system. One of the methods to "improve" the state of emergency room patient flooding is to continue with the CDC declaration that injuries by firearms are declared a "national epidemic" placing firearms (and their respective owners) in a restrictive database for further health and other psychiatric counseling. Trust the government with my records? I don't trust the governemt with anything.
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#1. To: buckeroo (#0)
In one word.. Yes. My sons were removed from public schools, for a Health Program Class, that taught Gun Control. In 6th grade, they ask all students to take a Pledge to ""NOT" be around those who own, carry and wish to buy a gun" It was called Totally Awesome Health Care and was produced by a good friend and former College Class Mate of Hillary.
good lord
It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government~Thomas Paine
Where was that at? Which school district? How long ago did it happen? That wouldn't fly here (outskirts of central Ohio). Hell, we have family oriented shooting ranges that rent machine guns for fun and advertise all over the radio and newspapers.
ping
That might be the best news of the day.
Just took my son to one yesterday (almost 13 years old). Took my daughter a few months ago (she was 9 at the time, just turned 10 a few weeks ago), great time. Yesterday there were two families there (including kids) outside of me and my son, and several couples (no kids). :)
Sounds like a great place to raise a family.
Hell, to be considered a mental defective all you have to do is believe in the Constitution. In their line of thought.
"What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that its people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms....The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson
That's like gnarly wicked, dude! Totally awesome! But I, like, googled it, ya know, and, like, you know, dude! It wasn't there! Ya know? .
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files
But there is no centralized data base under control by the federal government for that .... well, at least just yet.
"Free" government health care is all about our privacy. Only the O'Bingo goofs seem to miss the larger picture.
Some states require their physicians to question their patients about their firearms ownership. Massachusetts is one that I remember; the goal is to link firearms ownership with mental instability or perhaps otherwise physical ailments that preclude licensing to own or possess or to use firearms. And this same or similar concept is coming to the federal government. Can you say: please link NICS with the national health data base, please?
Clearly, the issues before us are beyond what the politicians discuss. You have to read between the lines. And you have to realize the politicians modify the programs any time and for any reason they want. It is for control about you. It is not for your health.
Buck you still haven't posted anything from this legislation that makes your case. But like I said earlier I think you are right that it will come to that. Thanks for posting this.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
Jersey Shore School System and to my research, over 70% of all School Systems, across the country..
I know, and it pisses me off.. I want to know how, it is not there.. when I was dealing with this problem, it was.. and now, you can't find info on it.. It is here and overseas, it is backed by the UN.. HOW IT THE SAM HELL, IS THE INFO JUST GONE???????????????
You can't read, can you? You are either dense or dyslexic.
Buck you didn't post any laws here. You posted opinions of what could happen. I agree with you that it will happen. But nothing you have posted specifically spells that out. If it did you would have posted it.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
Thats BECAUSE the Health Care BILL is not a law. It is subject to change like all 1000 page BILLS that are yet to become law. But you can't read. You just look for "holes" in opinions that don't match your silly use of literal search engines of text editors. You don't care about the issues at all. You sit there reading the love and joy about Congress intends to smother you with methods of improving your life not realizing they actually intend to rape you. Every BILL that has passed a President's signature to create a LAW, such as the US Patriot Act was designed to ensnale you into diminushed rights and greater government control. And to supplement my opinion about YOU, and as blind as you are, you still believe GOD created Israel, when in fact the US government creating the UN subsequently created a fictitious nation, called Israel. You can't read.
Buck. I am in the minority of Americans that do care. Buck I said I agree with you that it will happen eventually. There are just no provisions in any bill that says what you say as yet. No reason to make enemies of potential allies.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
Thats because you can't read between the lines. You pretend that your own reading comprehension is the stated intent. When the federal government got their hands on a constitutional amendment,(Amendment 16) permitting non-apportioned taxation the publick argument (at the time) was the tax rate upon individuals would never exceed 3%. Look around, today. The reality is it over 50%. But you don't read that, do you? The bill has no real Earth shaking provisions; it attempts to pander to your wants of something for free. A few years ago John McCain attempted to push a "immigration reform Bill" which lost. And, as a side note, it directly lost his capability to run for president and WIN. Today, the Congress is attempting to push a "health reform bill" which covers ALL those illegal aliens that lost in McCain's earlier attempt. It just wears a few different shades of grey. But is unique is the federally controlled centralized data base under a Czar that is a politcal appointee and can shape how other data bases are tapped to ensure heathcare. Such as the NICS program. Are you aware the NICS program does not eliminate records after verification EVER? Yet, Congress voted to have records destroyed after 2 months. So, again, you are wrong. You can't pull your head out of your ass.
Buck my differences with you on this issue are minor. When I say it will eventually happen....that is reading between the lines. Keep up the good work.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
Did you see that California failed passage of a bill that would have done away with the exemption for illegals to pay out of state tuition.
No. But it makes sense doesn't it? These politicians don't give a damned about the citizenry. And it pervades ALL levels of government.
This is true.
I don't know. I don't believe you are lying about anything here. I also don't see how it could be scrubbed from the entire internet. If you dealt with it, I'm sure others have, and protested for the same reasons, and it's safe to assume that it was written about. Is it possible that you got the title wrong? It sounds like such a idiotic title. We'll see if your post shows up on google. .
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files
This is the friend of Hillary, who co-wrote the program. http://www.librarything.com/author/meekslinda And this is one of a few links that I still get to work.. I saw it listed, but I have no idea what that website is about. What's the point of that site. The second link was interesting. http://publicrights.org/MeeksHeit/critiques.html is it. I found the following quote to be almost funny: "[Janet]Reno told an audience of several hundred students working in Washington during the summer that America "is one of the most violent nations in the world ... and we can do something about it." Yeah, we can burn kids alive. You rotten 4 letter "c" word. Odd how references to this monstrosity are so hard to find. Maybe it died in the cradle? .
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files
The first link is a industry type of web page. It is for those who are looking for either a certain kind of writer or type of writing. "Maybe it died in the cradle?" I wish it died, to my understanding late last year, it was granted double funding from the UN. That bit I heard on the BBC. And not a single American Station reported it.. The asshats!
#2. To: Refinersfire (#1)
In 6th grade, they ask all students to take a Pledge to ""NOT" be around those who own, carry and wish to buy a gun"
#3. To: Refinersfire (#1)
#4. To: buckeroo, *Shooters* (#0)
but the sheiks would shriek and the barons would bellow if hemp was made legal...and people became mellow
#5. To: SonOfLiberty (#3)
Hell, we have family oriented shooting ranges that rent machine guns for fun and advertise all over the radio and newspapers.
#6. To: Lod (#5)
(Edited)
#7. To: SonOfLiberty (#6)
#8. To: buckeroo (#0)
A central medical records system could, therefore, help enforce federal laws that ban those who have been adjudicated as a “mental defective” or who have spent time in a mental institution from buying a gun.
#9. To: Refinersfire (#1)
It was called Totally Awesome Health Care
#10. To: phantom patriot (#8)
#11. To: buckeroo (#0)
#12. To: Refinersfire (#1)
In 6th grade, they ask all students to take a Pledge to ""NOT" be around those who own, carry and wish to buy a gun" It was called Totally Awesome Health Care
#13. To: Jethro Tull (#11)
#14. To: buckeroo (#0)
#15. To: SonOfLiberty (#3)
#16. To: PSUSA (#9)
#17. To: A K A Stone (#14)
Buck you still haven't posted anything from this [directly]legislation that makes your case.
#18. To: buckeroo (#17)
#19. To: A K A Stone (#18)
Buck you didn't post any laws here. You posted opinions of what could happen.
#20. To: buckeroo (#19)
You don't care about the issues at all.
#21. To: A K A Stone (#20)
#22. To: buckeroo (#21)
#23. To: buckeroo (#21)
"If, from the more wretched parts of the old world, we look at those which are in an advanced stage of improvement, we still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised, to furnish new pretenses for revenues and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without tribute." --Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, 1791
#24. To: farmfriend (#23)
#25. To: buckeroo (#24)
And it pervades ALL levels of government.
"If, from the more wretched parts of the old world, we look at those which are in an advanced stage of improvement, we still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised, to furnish new pretenses for revenues and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without tribute." --Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, 1791
#26. To: Refinersfire (#16)
I know, and it pisses me off.. I want to know how, it is not there.. when I was dealing with this problem, it was.. and now, you can't find info on it.. It is here and overseas, it is backed by the UN.. HOW IT THE SAM HELL, IS THE INFO JUST GONE???????????????
#27. To: PSUSA, All (#26)
#28. To: Refinersfire (#27)
http://www.librarything.com/author/meekslinda
#29. To: PSUSA (#28)
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