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Title: Judge Strikes Reference to God in Kentucky Law That Created The Kentucky Office of Homeland Security
Source:
Associated Press
URL Source: [None]
Published: Aug 27, 2009
Author: Associated Press
Post Date: 2009-08-27 14:53:09 by Brian S
Keywords: None
Views: 2559
Comments: 91
Decision: Homeland Security's Dependence on "Almighty God" Akin to Establishing a Religion (AP) It is one thing to trust in God, but quite another to be ordered to rely on protection from above during national emergencies, a judge has ruled. Franklin Circuit Judge Thomas Wingate said in Wednesday's decision that references to a dependence on "Almighty God" in the law that created the Kentucky Office of Homeland Security is akin to establishing a religion, which the government is prohibited from doing in the U.S. and Kentucky constitutions. Ten Kentucky residents and a national atheist group sued to have the reference stricken. "It is breathtakingly unconstitutional," said Edwin Kagin, national legal director for American Atheists Inc. in Union, "and Judge Wingate goes to great detail as to why it is." The judge wrote in the 18-page ruling: "The statute pronounces very plainly that current citizens of the Commonwealth cannot be safe, neither now, nor in the future, without the aid of Almighty God. Even assuming that most of this nation's citizens have historically depended upon God, by choice, for their protection, this does not give the General Assembly the right to force citizens to do so now." The language in the 2006 legislation had been inserted by state Rep. Tom Riner, D-Louisville, a pastor of Christ is King Baptist Church in Louisville. Riner said he planned to ask Kentucky Attorney General Jack Conway to seek a reconsideration of the order. Conway has 10 days to do that, and 30 days to appeal. "They make the argument ... that it has to do with a religion," Riner said, "and promoting a religion. God is not a religion. God is God." A spokeswoman for Kentucky Attorney General Jack Conway says he has not yet decided whether to appeal. The state Office of Homeland Security was created in response to the Sept. 11 attacks, Wingate said in the order, and two amendments added to the statute creating the office were at issue. One required that training materials include information that the General Assembly stressed a "dependence on Almighty God as being vital to the security of the Commonwealth." The other required a plaque to be placed at the entrance to the state's Emergency Operations Center in Frankfort that said, in part, "the safety and security of the Commonwealth cannot be achieved apart from reliance upon Almighty God." Wingate noted in the order that there are 32 references to God or Almighty God in state statutes and the state constitution. But the reference in the homeland security law "places an affirmative duty to rely on Almighty God for the protection of the Commonwealth," Wingate wrote. "This makes the statute exceptional among thousands of others, and therefore, unconstitutional." Riner said he was not willing to consider rewording the phrases to make them pass muster. "This is no small matter, the understanding that God is real," he said. "There are real benefits to acknowledging Him. There was not a single founder or framer of the Constitution who didn't believe that."
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#52. To: Rhino369 (#41)
Somehow, someway, we are here. Whatever and/or whomever is responsible for us being here is god. You and anyone else, of course, may chose an alternative moniker. How one describes this or subscribes to this entity or force or whatever or whoever is subject to much earthly interpretation--both personal and collectively (primarily and popularly espoused among various man made religions).
TRAITORS TO AMERICA AND BRAINWASHED IDIOTS SUPPORT AND DEFEND ISRAEL. TO HELL WITH ZIONISTS AND THIER AMERICAN FRONTS: AIPAC/PNAC/ADL/JPCA/NAACP/CFR/FEDERAL RESERVE/NWO/SPLC/JINSA/ACLU/FPI/CHRISTIAN ZIONISTS/AEI/FEDERAL MEDIA/HOLLYWOOD, et. al.
LOL well that is the ultimate point right there!
Because there isn't any reason to believe a metaphysical world exists. A philosophy really. There isn't a case I've found where religion helps, and many it hurts. Its not factual, and harms society. If there is a religion that is not harmful I haven't heard about it. Of course some (Islam) are worse than others (quakers). Like I said you are too close to Christianity. Its abso-fucking-lutely ridiculous to kill millions of people over communion. How much world despair would have been avoided if the reformation and the Thirty Years War didn't turn Germany into a shit hole, and prevent its union? Communism didn't kill because it was atheist. Just like Fascism didn't kill because it was Christian. And Fascism was Christian. I don't know where you think it was atheist. It happened in two catholic countries, and a catholic and Lutheran country. But like I said, it wasn't related to Christianity.
And that somehow doesn't have to be a god. And what created god? If god just is, why do you dismiss that the universe just is?
This is one of those chowderhead things fundies like to do, stick the appellation 'God' everywhere in legislation and on public land. Just another way for a dog to raise it's leg to try to make something his territory. The above story from Florida about the shirts takes the cake. It is something out of the Fred Phelps ad agency dedicated to promote Christianity. It hurts that religion far more then Islam, as it is already being used to fuel anti- American hatred in the Islamic world. It came to mind when I saw this thread.
aside from this topic changing courses to bicker about 'the existance of God', i don't know if this topic would generate angst, regarding a judge striking reference to god from a 'homeland security' law. do people here really give a shit about such irrelevent nonsense? a reichland security gestapo is by it's very nature, ungodly. This country is ungodly. so why do so many mainline dopes focus on irrelevant minutia when the actions that their state and statist heros take against the masses daily are very extremely ungodly; not to mention the fact that their "godly" country has allowed the slaughter of 20 million babies. That is not 'godly'. yet they put their hand on their hearts and repeat the pledge written by the nazi, and chant 'IN GOD WE TRUST'. the country is full of dopes.
Glory to God in the highest, and Peace to His people on Earth. The name of your god is universe.
TRAITORS TO AMERICA AND BRAINWASHED IDIOTS SUPPORT AND DEFEND ISRAEL. TO HELL WITH ZIONISTS AND THIER AMERICAN FRONTS: AIPAC/PNAC/ADL/JPCA/NAACP/CFR/FEDERAL RESERVE/NWO/SPLC/JINSA/ACLU/FPI/CHRISTIAN ZIONISTS/AEI/FEDERAL MEDIA/HOLLYWOOD, et. al.
That is playing semantics. If your definition of god is limitless, saying there is a god is useless.
Why would you possibly label this first cause God? God implies consciousness, timelessness, omniscience, and all sorts of other attributes, you haven't shown. What you have done is shown nobody understands the creation, beginning of, or nature of the universe. Instead of admitting this ignorance, you decide to argue that it necessarily is a god. You define god so widely it could be anything. Why can't you just leave it at, we don't know yet, and we may never know. You have constructed a way of turning, I don't understand into a deity, seemingly for no reason. Did I say deity? No. A first cause is just that - the first cause of the first effect. We can logically infer certain things about that cause, but nothing requires deification. I would argue that "timelessness" is itself a function of awareness and existence and that time is simply the recognition, subjectively, of the individual of the track of sequential events. That there is physical quality called time has never been proven by western materialistic thought. The conept of "God" is a conscious decision of the self aware attempting to explain and lay name to that which created that which is observed. Omniscience is not a characteristic in direct evidence and thus I do not presume it - although I would note that their are phenomena associated with the self awareness we call man that would seem to imply a realm of ability which we cannot always consciously access. I don't pretend to have the ultimate and final answer and I do not. I do reject atheism as it is unsound both logically upon careful observation and reasoning. I refer to that first cause as God simply for lack of a better name other than the vague first cause. I am not defending the structures and dogma of specific religious beliefs with which I may not agree. Atheism is founded first and foremost in the relatively modern concept of materialism a creation of the minds of some of the western Philosphers e.g., Hegel, Hume, and Kant, which found root with Darwin, Freud, and and Wundt. It is founded ultimately upon the reasoning that only that which can be sensed within the limitations of the MEST universe has existence and ultimately that matter creates itself - that an inanimate unaware piece of MEST brought itself and awareness into existence. Further in its materialist viewpoint seeks to deny the ultimate spirituality of man and reduce him to the level of an unaware animal - all evidence to the contrary. Thus I reject atheism as unsupported by that which is observable empirically and by comparison to that often ill defined realm of the spirit that "elan vitale" posited by Bergson.
"An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you know and what you don't. ~ Anatole France
As well in one of his dialogues Plato quotes Solon as relaying a comment from and Egyptian Priest saying that they had records going back 100,000 years. That is one the messes with both the Darwinists and some Religionists.
"An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you know and what you don't. ~ Anatole France
Honesty, fairness and honor - hallmarks of biblical principles which are the backbone of law and order. Accountability to an Almighty has in no small measure been a catalyst in maintaining business ethics and wealth in America. * Main Entry: cap·i·tal·ism An economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market. (source: Merriam-Webster's Dictionary) Even Jesus - as a carpenter - needed to be paid for his services. He was NOT anti-business, nor pro-communist, which advocates stealing time and wealth and work. As to Christ and his beatitudes, His context is taken out of context - He spoke in aphorisms and parables in addressing His audience about humility, spiritual hunger, and yes - rejecting the worship of earthly wealth on their way to His Kingdom. Rebellion itself is unbiblical. The Bible itself tells us Man is rebellious...against good. Against, the Bible must be understood in context - and when it is, it takes on a whole different meaning that is not so much literal - but not that it isn't as well. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, not found in the bible, but in enlightenment era philosophical essays. True - much of the concepts of "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness were philosophies forged in the Age of Enlightenment by deists. However it doesn't detract from the biblical tenets nor high composition American Founders. Deists were odd birds; They reject supernaturalism, yet believed in God. They believe this same God had bailed out on Man - apparently just after His Creation, thus presuming Man has invented virtue. Q: America has historically NOT based on atheistic ethics and morals - what makes you thinks the Republic and liberty would thrive - much less survive?
If your definition of universe is limitless, saying there is a universe is useless.
TRAITORS TO AMERICA AND BRAINWASHED IDIOTS SUPPORT AND DEFEND ISRAEL. TO HELL WITH ZIONISTS AND THIER AMERICAN FRONTS: AIPAC/PNAC/ADL/JPCA/NAACP/CFR/FEDERAL RESERVE/NWO/SPLC/JINSA/ACLU/FPI/CHRISTIAN ZIONISTS/AEI/FEDERAL MEDIA/HOLLYWOOD, et. al.
If your definition of universe is limitless, saying there is a universe is useless. That isn't what I meant. I mean if your definition of god is so loose that the universe fits it, its not a good definition.
All traits of western civilization since the Greeks. I don't see any reason to believe that. Jesus was not pro business. He advocated giving everything away that you own advised people to wait for his return in poverty. That doesn't match the American industrialist spirit. Jesus's message was to suffer in this world for the opportunity to go to heaven. America seeks to make this material world as great as it can be. It very specifically talks against rebelling against your kings. Again the point of the new testament was, who cares how terrible this world is, Jesus is going to take us all to heaven. An atheist america, would take with it the good morals we already have and leave behind ancient superstition.
Well this is how a rational man should reply to "judge" Wingate's declaration: "TheStateInc pronounces very plainly that current citizens of the Livestock farm that is AmeriKa cannot be safe, neither now, nor in the future, without the aid of the Almighty StateInc. Even assuming that most of this nation's citizens have historically depended upon TheStateInc, by choice, for their protection, this does not give TheStateInc the right to force citizens to do so now." It is way past time to get irate. We need more rope.
They enjoy making a straw-man debate?.. I'll stick to what I have seen.."It is all about Power and Money.."
I must agree with your statement. The GOVERNMENT and all of its DEPARTMENTS and AGENCIES is a CORPORATION that has risen from the foundation that was the Original Jurisdiction United States of America. The CORPORATION, as such, has a mind of its own and is not bound by the Original Constitution of the United States. What is happening presently in America was planned long ago. This entire Worldly System has been permitted to 'evolve' under the control of the Ruler of This World. If we truly desire to follow 'The Way' shown us by the 'Man from Nazareth,' we would 'let it be' and 'not be any part of it.' All have been deceived. Not one is better than any other. We are all guilty of doing bad. But, there is 'Good News!'
In reality, Christendom in all its various flavors, and Judah-ism, are of the 'Devil.' Both are locked in an embrace of seduction and perversion. 'Religion' is a 'business entity' creation of man. The 'Man from Nazareth' did not come to Earth as a Man to establish a 'religion.' The 'Man from Nazareth' did show us 'the Way' that we should live within this 'Worldly System' while being 'separated from it.' We are to strive to do good and to love all of our neighbors; even our enemies. We are not to 'force' our beliefs upon anyone; but to live in such a manner that brings no dis-honor to the One who provides for all, the good and the bad. Live the truth and expose the lie as best we are able. 'The Book' has an incredibly happy ending for all!
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
I can't speak for all atheists but I personally prefer that sort of society (devoid of "godly" standards) because I think things like murder, rape, genocide, slavery, and human sacrifice to name a few are wrong and were always wrong. Also, some of you have misguided views on what atheism is. It's not a belief but rather a rejection of a particular belief. Everyone on this forum that doesn't believe in Thor, Apollo, Zeus, or Chrisna are atheists regarding those god claims. In my case I simply believe in one less god than the theists here.
My bad; I should have anticipated at least one drug-impaired response. By "Godly" I meant in the tradition of the Founders' religion - Christianity. Also, some of you have misguided views on what atheism is. It's not a belief but rather a rejection of a particular belief. Actually you're STILL erroneous about your own belief; Atheism is specifically the denial of the existence of God.
Prove it, flyboy. I betcha can't.
As one who's totally blind to an accountability to God, of course YOU wouldn't, but that doesn't mean it hasn't been the case. Jesus was not pro business. He advocated giving everything away that you own advised people to wait for his return in poverty. That doesn't match the American industrialist spirit. You are clearly oblivious to the context of Jesus' suggestion that following Him as a pauper makes one more wealthy than a man with all the riches in the world. Jesus's message was to suffer in this world for the opportunity to go to heaven. America seeks to make this material world as great as it can be. Wrong on Jesus' message; As to what "America seeks" in the context of wealth or "greatness" is highly debatable. Again the point of the new testament was, who cares how terrible this world is, Jesus is going to take us all to heaven. Sloppy intellectual deconstruction. No wonder you're lost. An atheist america, would take with it the good morals we already have and leave behind ancient superstition. Try not to take this personally, but I'm going to guess that the counseling and Ritalin have not helped.
Prove it, flyboy. I betcha can't. Oh I'm sorry Counselor - have I been summoned to the witness stand? Right-O, Buckerino.
They were agnostics for the most part, nimrod. Quit wiring yourself to old fables begging Israel to walk across the BIG_POND and save your wretched ass.
Not quite; They were mostly Christians of various sects with a sprinkling of Deists. Quit wiring yourself to old fables begging Israel to walk across the BIG_POND and save your wretched ass. As an agnostic/atheist, WTH riddle are you referring to?
Oh, the old fable that GOD created Israel and because the founding fathers of America were ALL Christians, American tax-payers should pay a continuing and ever-lasting tithe to Israel because Americans are lovey-dovey. You know what I mean ... the same comic book you read.
You know what I mean ... the same comic book you read. Apparently I haven't yet read your psychedelic version of the History of The World, Part MMDCCXVII. Do we all turn into Israeli pumpkins in the end, or does the Jewish Wizard of Oz save us? Hmmm...suddenly I'm in the mood for a matzo ball soup and a bagel.
Actually, it's the denial of the theist bullshit claims about god, but whatever. As for your Founding Fathers/Christian Nation bullshit, that's been well refuted so many times it's an embarrassment to you that you still bring it up. That nonsense is mainly attributed to David Barton of Wallbuilders, who simply made shit up to suit is zealot agenda. Can't say I'm surprised though as Christians have long proved they have no problem with intellectual dishonesty if they think it will further their agenda.
FAIL
LOL, big words coming from a guy who believes in a talking snake and countless other ridiculous fables as literal fact. Go fuck yourself, in Jesus' name of course.
It wasn't a snake, it was a lizard. Snakes can't talk.
Blasphemy ping
'Religion' is a 'business entity' creation of man. The 'Man from Nazareth' did not come to Earth as a Man to establish a 'religion.' The 'Man from Nazareth' did show us 'the Way' that we should live within this 'Worldly System' while being 'separated from it.' We are to strive to do good and to love all of our neighbors; even our enemies. We are not to 'force' our beliefs upon anyone; but to live in such a manner that brings no dis-honor to the One who provides for all, the good and the bad. Live the truth and expose the lie as best we are able. 'The Book' has an incredibly happy ending for all! An impotent retort, Ncturnal Emission. Massive FAIL again. Try your typing with your left hand and wanking with the right this time.
Massive FAIL again. Try your typing with your left hand and wanking with the right this time. Why are you so obsessed with whacking off, penises, and emissions? You must be missing all the little boys now that Jesus Camp is over and the kids are back in school.
Need I remind you of your own suggestive handle, Mr. Ncturnal Emission? And let's face it - as a rabid secular humanist-wanker who regards your genitalia as your "god", I've merely reminded you of your "holy" sacraments - aka your pedophilic obsessions." Good luck with that, you Dopey Loser.
#53. To: Rhino369 (#51)
I don't see what you are trying to prove here.
"If, from the more wretched parts of the old world, we look at those which are in an advanced stage of improvement, we still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised, to furnish new pretenses for revenues and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without tribute." --Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, 1791
#54. To: F16Fighter (#50)
Hitchens - though brilliant at times - has a blind spot the size of Rhode Island on the issue of God. Now how is Hitchens (or anyone) explaining away God if they both reject and refuse to understand a Metaphysical World that is real?
Secular Humanism is a "religion"
As is Islam; As is Protestantism. There can be no blanket equivalent in assessing "religion." And anyway, most of the American Founders did in fact belong to Christian sects.
Yes, because the true tenets of Christianity were subverted and corrupted - first by Constantine, and then sporadically through the centuries by corrupt Popes.
But even if your premise is accepted, have you any idea of the numbers murdered in the name of atheistic communism and fascism during the 20th century?
#55. To: wbales (#52)
Somehow, someway, we are here.
Whatever and/or whomever is responsible for us being here is god.
#56. To: farmfriend (#28)
(Edited)
US Church prints "Islam is of the Devil" shirts for members
#57. To: Brian S (#0)
"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I truly am not that concerned about him"
George W, Bush, 3/13/02 http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html
#58. To: Rhino369 (#55)
And what created god? If god just is, why do you dismiss that the universe just is?
#59. To: wbales (#58)
The name of your god is universe.
#60. To: Rhino369, farmfriend (#35)
We can observe, empirically and logically, that effects have a cause. Given that the physical universe is an effect we can thus logically infer a cause. This "First Cause" of the "First Effect" is that awareness which, dogma aside, we name "God". Now the ultimate nature and reality of that is not currently within the realm of our knowledge, but we can rationally infer its existence. Atheism is at its roots the denial that effects have causes and that the observable physical universe "always was" or that "shit happens" all by itself. Logically, despite their pretensions to their religion of "rationalism", "skepticism", and their interpretation of Holy Science, their argument falls apart epistemologically.
#61. To: farmfriend (#46)
#62. To: Rhino369 (#29)
What about America follows biblical principles? Things like representative republics, liberty, and the like aren't in the bible. Other principles like capitalism are expressly preached against by Jesus. Materialism is rejected by Jesus. The beatitudes call for poverty, hunger, pacifism, and meekness. The discourse on ostentation is about is unamerican as you can get.
* Pronunciation: Èka-pY-tY-Ìliz-Ym, Èkap-tY-, British also kY-Èpi-tY-
* Function: noun
* Date: 1877
#63. To: Rhino369 (#59)
If your definition of god is limitless, saying there is a god is useless.
#64. To: wbales (#63)
#65. To: F16Fighter (#62)
Honesty, fairness and honor - hallmarks of biblical principles which are the backbone of law and order.
Accountability to an Almighty has in no small measure been a catalyst in maintaining business ethics and wealth in America.
Even Jesus - as a carpenter - needed to be paid for his services. He was NOT anti-business, nor pro-communist, which advocates stealing time and wealth and work.
As to Christ and his beatitudes, His context is taken out of context - He spoke in aphorisms and parables in addressing His audience about humility, spiritual hunger, and yes - rejecting the worship of earthly wealth on their way to His Kingdom.
The Bible itself tells us Man is rebellious...against good. Against, the Bible must be understood in context - and when it is, it takes on a whole different meaning that is not so much literal - but not that it isn't as well.
Q: America has historically NOT based on atheistic ethics and morals - what makes you thinks the Republic and liberty would thrive - much less survive?
#66. To: Brian S, original_intent, rotara, psusa, christine, jethro tull, cynicom, elliott jackalope, james deffenbach, farmfriend, palo verde (#0)
(Edited)
"The statute pronounces very plainly that current citizens of the Commonwealth cannot be safe, neither now, nor in the future, without the aid of Almighty God. Even assuming that most of this nation's citizens have historically depended upon God, by choice, for their protection, this does not give the General Assembly the right to force citizens to do so now."
"Midway upon the journey of our life I found myself within a forest dark, For the straightforward pathway had been lost." - Dante
#67. To: Rhino369 (#12)
Because they enjoy it and believe in what they are saying.
#68. To: Prefrontal Vortex (#20)
In this one instance, the ruling is appropriate.
#69. To: Ferret Mike (#56)
Islam is of the Devil
#70. To: Rhino369 (#2)
#71. To: Rhino369 (#65)
#72. To: F16Fighter (#15)
But even that doesn't explain why they apparently prefer to live in a society devoid of Godly standards.
#73. To: Ncturnal (#72)
I can't speak for all atheists but I personally prefer that sort of society (devoid of "godly" standards) because I think things like murder, rape, genocide, slavery, and human sacrifice to name a few are wrong and were always wrong.
#74. To: F16Fighter (#73)
By "Godly" I meant in the tradition of the Founders' religion - Christianity.
#75. To: Rhino369 (#65)
I don't see any reason to believe that [Accountability to an Almighty has in no small measure been a catalyst in maintaining business ethics and wealth in America.]
#76. To: buckeroo (#74)
(By "Godly" I meant in the tradition of the Founders' religion - Christianity.)
#77. To: F16Fighter (#76)
#78. To: buckeroo (#77)
They were agnostics for the most part...
#79. To: F16Fighter (#78)
WTH riddle are you referring to?
#80. To: buckeroo (#79)
The old fable that GOD created Israel and because the founding fathers of America were ALL Christians, American tax-payers should pay a continuing and ever-lasting tithe to Israel because Americans are lovey-dovey.
#81. To: F16Fighter (#73)
#82. To: Ncturnal Emission (#81)
#83. To: F16Fighter (#82)
(Edited)
FAIL
#84. To: Ncturnal (#83)
talking snake
"The trouble with people is not that they don't know but that they know so much that ain't so." ~ Josh Billings
#85. To: WEAVER, christine, Ncturnal (#81)
(Edited)
"The trouble with people is not that they don't know but that they know so much that ain't so." ~ Josh Billings
#86. To: wudidiz (#85)
(Edited)
#87. To: wudidiz (#85)
#88. To: SCPO Blackshoe Retired (#69)
In reality, Christendom in all its various flavors, and Judah-ism, are of the 'Devil.' Both are locked in an embrace of seduction and perversion.
"The trouble with people is not that they don't know but that they know so much that ain't so." ~ Josh Billings
#89. To: Ncturnal Emission (#83)
Go fuck yourself, in Jesus' name of course.
#90. To: Jesus Camp (#89)
(Edited)
An impotent retort, Ncturnal Emission.
#91. To: Ncturnal Emission (#90)
Why are you so obsessed with whacking off, penises, and emissions?
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