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Health
See other Health Articles

Title: Coverage under Obamacare will require an implantable microchip.
Source: http://www.abovetopsecret.com
URL Source: http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread496625/pg1
Published: Aug 30, 2009
Author: abovetopsecret.com
Post Date: 2009-08-30 19:46:20 by freepatriot32
Ping List: *libertarians*     Subscribe to *libertarians*
Keywords: Obamacare, Coverage, implantable, microchip.
Views: 2032
Comments: 57

There's a pretty starling thing in the bill that 95% of Americans won't like.

The Obama Health care bill under Class II (Paragraph 1, Section B) specifically includes ‘‘(ii) a class II device that is implantable." Then on page 1004 it describes what the term "data" means in paragraph 1, section B:

14 ‘‘(B) In this paragraph, the term ‘data’ refers to in15 formation respecting a device described in paragraph (1), 16 including claims data, patient survey data, standardized 17 analytic files that allow for the pooling and analysis of 18 data from disparate data environments, electronic health 19 records, and any other data deemed appropriate by the 20 Secretary"

What exactly is a class II device that is implantable? Lets see...

Approved by the FDA, a class II implantable device is a "implantable radiofrequency transponder system for patient identification and health information." The purpose of a class II device is to collect data in medical patients such as "claims data, patient survey data, standardized analytic files that allow for the pooling and analysis of data from disparate data environments, electronic health records, and any other data deemed appropriate by the Secretary."

This sort of device would be implanted in the majority of people who opt to become covered by the public health care option. With the reform of the private insurance companies, who charge outrageous rates, many people will switch their coverage to a more affordable insurance plan. This means the number of people who choose the public option will increase. This also means the number of people chipped will be plentiful as well. The adults who choose to have a chip implanted are the lucky (yes, lucky) ones in this case. Children who are "born in the United States who at the time of birth is not otherwise covered under acceptable coverage" will be qualified and placed into the CHIP or Children's Health Insurance Program (what a convenient name). With a name like CHIP it would seem consistent to have the chip implanted into a child. Children conceived by parents who are already covered under the public option will more than likely be implanted with a chip by the consent of the parent. Eventually everyone will be implanted with a chip. And with the price and coverage of the public option being so competitive with the private companies, the private company may not survive.

So will everyone be covered by the public option eventually??????

And does that mean everyone will be chipped?????

SOURCE: http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3200/text Subscribe to *libertarians*

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#1. To: All, *Shooters*, *Music Club*, *LEAP*, *Jack-Booted Thugs*, *Humor-Weird News*, *Agriculture-Environment* (#0) (Edited)

Implantable Microchip Cancer Report

www.truthnews.us/?p=936

Via:>www.antichips.com/cancer"> Anti Chips:

CASPIAN’s new report, “Microchip-Induced Tumors in Laboratory Rodents and Dogs: A Review of the Literature 1990–2006,” is a definitive review of research showing a causal link between implanted radio-frequency (RFID) microchip transponders and cancer in laboratory rodents and dogs. It was written in part to correct industry misstatements and misinformation circulating about the studies.

The report evaluates eleven articles previously published in toxicology and pathology journals. In six of the articles, between 0.8% and 10.2% of laboratory mice and rats developed malignant tumors around or adjacent to the microchips. Two additional articles reported microchip-related cancer in dogs.

In almost all cases, the malignant tumors, typically sarcomas, arose at the site of the implants and grew to surround and fully encase the devices. These fast-growing, malignant tumors often led to the death of the afflicted animals. In many cases, the tumors metastasized or spread to other parts of the animals. The implants were unequivocally identified as the cause of the cancers.

If one doesn't fit neatly into some government category, they're different and must be fixed.-jethro tull

freepatriot32  posted on  2009-08-30   19:47:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: freepatriot32 (#0) (Edited)

implantable microchip

Obama Helathcare bill

The insanity of the "Obama Healthcare bill" is attempting to incite violence from USSA citizens so Obinion has "cause" to call out the "troops" and "stock" the internment camps.

sizzlerguy  posted on  2009-08-30   20:26:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: freepatriot32, psusa (#0)

CC: skeptics, fearmongering ping list

I tried to click on the original link referenced (here http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3200/text ) and it froze my computer. and i have a brand new computer, which has never frozen up for anything. so i dont know what sort of bs link that is but until otherwise proven with an actual link, the story is bogus. if anyone can find a link to an actual bill that says microchips are mandatory, (doubtful) please post the direct link.

Glory to God in the highest, and Peace to His people on Earth.
"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I truly am not that concerned about him"
George W, Bush, 3/13/02 http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html

Artisan  posted on  2009-08-30   20:33:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Artisan (#3)

The link opened fine for me.

Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson

A K A Stone  posted on  2009-08-30   20:50:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: freepatriot32 (#0)

More neocon nutter fear mongering, IMO.

And there is a lot of that these days.

"Satan / Cheney in "08" Just Foreign Policy Iraqi Death Estimator

tom007  posted on  2009-08-30   21:11:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: tom007 (#5)

So you are saying this bill is fake?

Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson

A K A Stone  posted on  2009-08-30   22:33:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Artisan, all (#3) (Edited)

froze my computer

It's not a BS link. Are you running a script blocker?


‘National Medical Device Registry

1 ‘(g)(1) The Secretary shall establish a national medical device registry (in this subsection referred to as the ‘registry’) to facilitate analysis of postmarket safety and outcomes data on each device that--

‘(A) is or has been used in or on a patient; and

‘(B) is--

‘(i) a class III device; or

‘(ii) a class II device that is implantable, life-supporting, or life-sustaining.


See how (ii) is written. It says "or" and not "and". So the way I read this, it is for chips.

BUT, the title of the article is misleading if they are using this to force people to get chipped. It does not say that.

.


Click for Privacy and Preparedness files

PSUSA  posted on  2009-08-31   7:07:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: freepatriot32 (#0)

"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡

ghostdogtxn  posted on  2009-08-31   9:34:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: PSUSA, tom007, AKA Stone, original_intent, christine, jethro tull, noone222, rotara (#7)

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3200/text

‘National Medical Device Registry

1 ‘(g)(1) The Secretary shall establish a national medical device registry (in this subsection referred to as the ‘registry’) to facilitate analysis of postmarket safety and outcomes data on each device that--

‘(A) is or has been used in or on a patient; and

‘(B) is--

‘(i) a class III device; or

‘(ii) a class II device that is implantable, life-supporting, or life-sustaining.

Thanks for the reply.

Let's get one thing straight. i have no doubt that the govt is evil and will eventually, someday, try to mark people. however,

establishing a medical device registry (to facilitate analysis) on each device that is a class II or III which has been used on a patient

DOES NOT 'dictate' that anyone get a 'class II' device (microchip). I agree with tom007 that the claim made in the article is nonsense. The notion that the govt will mandate everyone to be microchipped is years off at the very least and several generations afar.

A year and a half from now, in March 2011, or in 3 years, or 5, when we will not be in camps, or microchipped, everyone can come back to this thread and laugh about how silly this fear mongering was.

how many threads have people posted in the past 5 years that opine 'all is over' or the end is near, etc. never happens and it just serves to discredit the liberty movement to outsiders , IMO. I tend to agree with ron paul on this that it is simply an idealogical battle .. the state vs the people, as the book puts it.. and their tactic is gradualism.

Glory to God in the highest, and Peace to His people on Earth.
"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I truly am not that concerned about him"
George W, Bush, 3/13/02 http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html

Artisan  posted on  2009-08-31   11:00:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Artisan (#9)

A year and a half from now, in March 2011, or in 3 years, or 5, when we will not be in camps, or microchipped, everyone can come back to this thread and laugh about how silly this fear mongering was.

It's a shame that people do that. There is no excuse for this when it is so easily verifiable that the title of the OP was bogus. I guess he wrote that thinking people would be too lazy to check the source and just take his word for it.

Things are bad enough as they are, and will only get worse. There is no need to make up things like this. I have to question the motives of people that do it.

But I have to say, I dont think we'll make it another 18 months to laugh at anything. I can't see it all lasting that long and I don't think it will be funny at all.

.


Click for Privacy and Preparedness files

PSUSA  posted on  2009-08-31   11:08:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: tom007, freepatriot32, christine, all (#5)

More neocon nutter fear mongering, IMO.

And there is a lot of that these days.

So, are you saying the quoted text out of the bill is not text quoted out of the bill?

Uh, Tommy your infatuation with State Kontrolled Hellthcare has taken you over the deep end. Now you are denying things written into the text of the bill are not things written into the text of the bill. You want State Kontrolled Hellthcare so bad that you have disengaged your analytic capabilities and are operating under a purely reactive knee jerk response mechanism.

Rule 1. State Controlled Hellthcare is always good.

Rule 2. In the event contrary evidence is presented refer to "Rule 1.".

"An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you know and what you don't. ~ Anatole France

Original_Intent  posted on  2009-08-31   11:15:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: freepatriot32 (#0)

never forget it was baalzabush's H&HS tommy thompson who set this program in motion
... As head of Health and Human Services, Thompson oversaw the scandal-ridden FDA when it approved the VeriChip as a medical device. Shortly after leaving his cabinet post, he joined the board of the VeriChip Corporation and wasted no time in using his clout to promote the company's glass encapsulated RFID tags. These tags are injected into human flesh to uniquely number and identify people.

The best gun to have, is the gun you have, when you need a gun.

IRTorqued  posted on  2009-08-31   11:16:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Original_Intent (#11)

your post wasn't addressed to me, but I think it's clear that the text in the bill (see #9 above) does not equate to the author's claim that "Coverage under Obamacare will require an implantable microchip". Hence, i think the article is well intentioned, and is relevent info, but the conclusion drawn is misleading and innacurate.

the fact that a database of microchips in patients is established in the bill is indeed relevent info.

Glory to God in the highest, and Peace to His people on Earth.
"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I truly am not that concerned about him"
George W, Bush, 3/13/02 http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html

Artisan  posted on  2009-08-31   11:36:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Artisan (#13) (Edited)

As was pointed out earlier in the thread under the incrementalism practiced in other programs to slowly, methodically, step by step, implement such programs its mere presence in the bill implies a future incremental step making it mandatory. So, while the title might be slightly hyperbolic in current context it portends such a move as a future incremental step.

The Income Tax began as a 16 Page Bill which covered only the wealthiest half a percent or so.

It now takes from all levels in a minimum percentage nearly 4 times the original 4% taken from only the very very wealthy.

Income Tax Withholding began during WWII as a temporary necessity (or so it was claimed). Has it gone away yet?

Social Security began as a safety net which was even a smaller percentage (about 1.5% if memory serves) and is now about ten times the original and going broke because of Government Malfeasance which in a private trustee would be called fraud meriting jail time if convicted.

The biggest problems I have with Nationalized Hellthcare are:

1. It locks in the current players as the only players i.e., Big Pharma and Big Insurance.

2. It requires, mandates, that someone must pay one of the approved insurers for an inferior product, while locking in Big Pharma's Oligopic Control over what "medicines" are allowed.

3. It eventually will outlaw all private arrangements.

4. It is aimed at destroying alternatives to Big Insurance and Big Pharma by not including alternatives to their toxic products.

5. It requires, by confiscatory fees, the subsidy, forced, of some individuals by other individuals without regard of what ill affects it might have on the well being of those required to pay, under penalty of law, for the benefit of others.

6. Government through its past actions, which are easily demonstrable by anyone caring to look, is dominated by the interests who would most benefit and that is NOT the covered. Therefore any bill in the current environment will be tailored to maximize the benefit to those interests at the expense of everyone else.

And I could go on but will forego the impulse.

The bottom line is that any bill coming out of this Congress will be written so as to maximize government control and profits to Big Insurance and Big Pharma and pipe dreams to the contrary will not change that.

People can HOPE for CHANGE in one hand and shit in the other and I think we know which one will fill up first.

"An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you know and what you don't. ~ Anatole France

Original_Intent  posted on  2009-08-31   11:59:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: IRTorqued (#12)

never forget it was baalzabush's H&HS tommy thompson who set this program in motion ... As head of Health and Human Services, Thompson oversaw the scandal-ridden FDA when it approved the VeriChip as a medical device. Shortly after leaving his cabinet post, he joined the board of the VeriChip Corporation and wasted no time in using his clout to promote the company's glass encapsulated RFID tags. These tags are injected into human flesh to uniquely number and identify people.

Yes it started in livestock under Bush and now will be graduating to humanstock under Obama.

And we need the constant reminding of what eight years of a Republican president under five years of a Republican congress can do to a country. It has led DIRECTLY to where we are today. And voters need to put their faith in another or new party if they want any of this damage actually undone as the GOP has been proven to be NOT interested.

mininggold  posted on  2009-08-31   12:06:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Original_Intent (#11)

neocon nutter

That moran uses terms loosely, eh ??

Fucking tools of the NWO and too stupid to know or care about it...


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-08-31   12:06:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: tom007 (#5)

Yeah you, you fucking moran.

You never had me convinced otherwise, tommie.


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-08-31   12:07:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: Original_Intent (#14)

People can HOPE for CHANGE in one hand and shit in the other and I think we know which one will fill up first.

+


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-08-31   12:08:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Original_Intent (#14)

As was pointed out earlier in the thread under the incrementalism practiced in other programs to slowly, methodically, step by step, implement such programs its mere presence in the bill implies a future incremental step making it mandatory. So, while the title might be slightly hyperbolic in current context it portends such a move as a future incremental step.

fair enough. I guess i am a stickler for details, as in, precisely what does a law (or in this case, proposed law,) say.

aside, i do not connect this discussion of rfid with support of govt healthcare, since i would never support that regardless of what's in the bill.

Glory to God in the highest, and Peace to His people on Earth.
"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I truly am not that concerned about him"
George W, Bush, 3/13/02 http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html

Artisan  posted on  2009-08-31   12:17:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Rotara, Tom007, christine, all (#16) (Edited)

neocon nutter

That moran uses terms loosely, eh ??

Fucking tools of the NWO and too stupid to know or care about it...

The problem with "true believers" in State Controlled Hellthcare (regardless of whatever it is called whether "Universal", "Single Payer", or "Bob" it is still State Controlled and the State Controls who and what is covered thus killing the freedom to choose alternatives to bad Hellthcare) is that it is assumed to be always good, regardless of any valid contrary points, and to just label it as "Universal" or "Bob" is enough to shut down their analytic capabilities. People who normally look with a jaundiced eye at government malfeasance instantly turn into purring pussycats at the mere prospect that a Bill so named (regardless of the realities or details or consequences) will be passed into law thus forcing their fellows to do what they FEEL is right. Thus anyone who opposes the ineffable and unqualified good of any scheme so named is by definition evil (say, a "neocon nutter") regardless of what the Bill actually says or would do. This label is applied regardless of the history of that individual opposing the actions of the Bush Junta and their NeoTrotskyCon hoard.

P.T. Barnum had a name for such people: "Suckers".

"An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you know and what you don't. ~ Anatole France

Original_Intent  posted on  2009-08-31   12:18:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: Artisan (#19)

aside, i do not connect this discussion of rfid with support of govt healthcare, since i would never support that regardless of what's in the bill.

You have to back up and assume a global perspective. One of the things that woke me up to just how big the real threat is was the dawning awareness that all of these actions are interconnected into an overall view and set of plans and policies. RFID, "Real ID", "Chipped Passports", and Chipped Patients are all interrelated and evince a common goal.

"An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you know and what you don't. ~ Anatole France

Original_Intent  posted on  2009-08-31   12:20:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Original_Intent (#21)

oh i understand the rfid menace, and agree with you about it. i was just being strictly specific about what this bill specifically says. and it does not say that future govt health care recipients must be microchipped.

i realize that is what the govt wants., and am a supporter and promotor of spychips and dr albrecht. i'm just sayin...

maybe it is the way i think about & deal the law very extremely specifically. words are very important. i am very precise & literal in these things. that is how i win in court so many times. i hope i have explained my position. i am not a skeptic or naysayer of the govt / beast rfid conspiracy.

Glory to God in the highest, and Peace to His people on Earth.
"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I truly am not that concerned about him"
George W, Bush, 3/13/02 http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html

Artisan  posted on  2009-08-31   12:25:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: freepatriot32 (#0)

The propensity of government to enlarge itself while degrading the citizen is historic.

This bill will do to our "physical" privacy what Socialist Security has done to our commercial privacy.

Anyone besides me recall that the SSN was NEVER TO BE USED AS Identification ? Today, you're not recognized without it !!!

(And as far as I'm concerned that's great !)

The U.S. Govt is a tyrannical butcher; U.S. taxpayers are accomplices to international murder and mayhem. If you satisfy your fears by bowing to this butcher, you forfeit your humanity for a pound of flesh.

noone222  posted on  2009-08-31   12:27:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Artisan (#22)

Oh, I understand what you are saying, and as you may have noted I am very careful in my choice of words for nuance and effect, but you need to compare datums of similar magnitude, weight past actions of the players, and project into the future the likely consequences of a given set of actions. Thus one may, I believe, logically infer that well meaning people's hopes to the contrary, that this Hellthcare is nothing more than an extension of the Control Grid already being constructed (and much of which is alredy in place).

"An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you know and what you don't. ~ Anatole France

Original_Intent  posted on  2009-08-31   12:31:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: Original_Intent (#20)

P.T. Barnum had a name for such people: "Suckers".

Suckers are also those who think that McCain/Palin would have been any different (other than possibly using different contractors) than Obama/Biden. In fact I bet many would be in favor of a similiar McCainCare as I sure didn't hear that Republican uproar over Medicare D when it was passed.

mininggold  posted on  2009-08-31   12:37:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: mininggold (#25)

P.T. Barnum had a name for such people: "Suckers".

Suckers are also those who think that McCain/Palin would have been any different (other than possibly using different contractors) than Obama/Biden. In fact I bet many would be in favor of a similiar McCainCare as I sure didn't hear that Republican uproar over Medicare D when it was passed.

You may speculate as you wish. I'm dealing in current realities.

"An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you know and what you don't. ~ Anatole France

Original_Intent  posted on  2009-08-31   12:38:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Original_Intent (#20)

The 'suckers' that claim to be patriots but are IN FACT socialist leeches never had me fooled. Call it a 'gift' maybe.

ehehe


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-08-31   12:45:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: Original_Intent (#26)

You may speculate as you wish. I'm dealing in current realities.

All political futures is speculation. Do you actually think McCain the great taker of rights via CFR would not have tried to take even more?

mininggold  posted on  2009-08-31   12:46:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: mininggold (#25)

That goes without saying, but you did say it. ;-)


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-08-31   12:47:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: mininggold (#28)

Do you actually think McCain the great taker of rights via CFR would not have tried to take even more?

LOL

O_I has not once ever shown delusions of R&D grandeur. Anyone with a few functioning brain cells understands that at this point, R&D is the exact same thing in the final rinse. It's just how they market and appeal to the rubes.

LOL


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-08-31   12:48:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Original_Intent (#24) (Edited)

Thus one may, I believe, logically infer that well meaning people's hopes to the contrary, that this Hellthcare is nothing more than an extension of the Control Grid already being constructed (and much of which is alredy in place).

It's amazing how many people can't face the reality.

I know it's horrible, but it is what IS and we have to deal with THEM while We still can.

IMO


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-08-31   12:50:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Rotara (#30)

O_I has not once ever shown delusions of R&D grandeur. Anyone with a few functioning brain cells understands that at this point, R&D is the exact same thing in the final rinse. It's just how they market and appeal to the rubes.

Yeah right.... just bring the great white Palin and see the results you get here.

mininggold  posted on  2009-08-31   12:53:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: Rotara (#30)

It's just how they market and appeal to the rubes.

Exactly.


"If, from the more wretched parts of the old world, we look at those which are in an advanced stage of improvement, we still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised, to furnish new pretenses for revenues and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without tribute." --Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, 1791

farmfriend  posted on  2009-08-31   12:54:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: mininggold (#28)

You may speculate as you wish. I'm dealing in current realities.

All political futures is speculation. Do you actually think McCain the great taker of rights via CFR would not have tried to take even more?

Your attempted point and diversion is irrelevant to the current discussion. We are dealing in a concrete present. I don't want to wear government issued cement overshoes. And I was NOT a McNutz supporter as my posting history would clearly show. However, McNutz was/is controlled by the same people who controlled Bush and Oh'bummer. While the mechanics might have evolved differently the attempt would have been made regardless of who was installed in office. However, Oh'bummer was (s)Elected and Installed to further the supposed socialist half of the Totalitarian State being constructed. Universal Hellthcare is important to it because it further cements total control over the actions of all the "useless eaters" and makes it easier to push the hidden agenda of eugenics and depopulation.

"An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you know and what you don't. ~ Anatole France

Original_Intent  posted on  2009-08-31   12:56:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: Rotara (#31)

It's amazing how many people can't face the reality.

I know it's horrible, but it is what and we have to deal with THEM while we still can.

IMO

The power is in the party and the opposition party is just a mini-me.

mininggold  posted on  2009-08-31   12:56:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: mininggold, Rotara, christine, all (#32)

O_I has not once ever shown delusions of R&D grandeur. Anyone with a few functioning brain cells understands that at this point, R&D is the exact same thing in the final rinse. It's just how they market and appeal to the rubes.

Yeah right.... just bring the great white Palin and see the results you get here.

You will do anything to avoid confronting the realities won't you?

The reality is that this is nothing more than a Trojan Horse to aggregate greater control over formerly free people in totalitarian hands.

Oh, and if you are going to try to deride me with Strawman arguments then at least have the courtesy to ping me to the attack.

"An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you know and what you don't. ~ Anatole France

Original_Intent  posted on  2009-08-31   13:00:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: Original_Intent (#34)

You really need to quit with the innuendo.

What party do you propose to take over the reins when Obama is ousted? The "new" GOP? What alternatives do you have in mind since THIS is a Representative Republic? House cleaning is in order and is being ignored.

mininggold  posted on  2009-08-31   13:01:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: mininggold, Original_Intent (#32)

O_I has not once ever shown delusions of R&D grandeur. Anyone with a few functioning brain cells understands that at this point, R&D is the exact same thing in the final rinse. It's just how they market and appeal to the rubes.

Yeah right.... just bring the great white Palin and see the results you get here.

LOL

You got your wires crossed somewhere.

The great white NEOCON princess and O_I have nothing in common, at all.


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-08-31   13:12:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: farmfriend (#33)

Can I get an Amen Sistah ??


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-08-31   13:14:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: mininggold (#35)

Put your faith in a Party and we all lose.


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-08-31   13:15:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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