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Title: Widespread Arctic Wildlife Changes Seen with Global Warming
Source:
VOANews
URL Source: http://www.voanews.com/english/2009-09-11-voa1.cfm
Published: Sep 11, 2009
Author: Jessica Berman
Post Date: 2009-09-12 16:01:09 by buckeroo
Keywords: None
Views: 457
Comments: 47
Scientists carying out studies of wildlife in the Arctic say global warming is causing dramatic changes in animal and plant life, threatening some species with extinction. The report is a compilation of studies of Arctic eco-systems by an international team of scientists who have been collaborating during the fourth International Polar Year,which ended in 2008. Eric Post, a professor of biology at Penn State University and leader of the study team, says previous research has focused on the non-living or abiotic effects of global warming on the Arctic, including the melting of sea ice and subsequent rises in seawater levels. But Post says this is the first comprehensive report investigating the sweeping impacts of climate change on eco-systems and living creatures in the north polar region, including: "Fresh water systems, terrestrial systems, resident species, migratory species, birds, mammals, plants, pretty much everything. It seems like wherever you look in the Arctic right now, things are changing quite rapidly," he said. For example, Post says, the researchers found that red foxes and other species that thrived in the Arctic's southern ranges are moving north toward cooler, more hospitable climates. They are displacing Arctic foxes in competition for food. Other species migrating northward include winter moths that are defoliating mountain birch forests. Another biological consequence of climate change in the Arctic, according to Post, is that the plant growing season is starting earlier than it did a decade ago. "And that might sound like a benefit because it's getting warmer and greener earlier. But there are species that migrate based on light cues and are expecting to arrive on their breeding grounds in the Arctic to take advantage of resources associated with start of the growing season. But they are arriving too late now and are suffering consequences for reproduction and survival of offspring," he said. Species endangered by this earlier growing season include migratory caribou, common in the low Arctic landscape of Greenland. Increasing numbers of females there are unable to consume enough food to sustain pregnancies. Researchers did find species that benefitted from the warming temperatures, including non-migratory wild reindeer on the Norwegian archipelago. These animals take advantage of the melting snow and longer growing seasons. Scientists say reindeer populations have increased because there's more food for them to eat. The report notes that over the past 150 years, the concentration of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere has caused temperatures to warm an average of one-degree Celsius. That has resulted in a progressive loss of the Arctic's seasonal sea ice cover, at the rate of 45,000 square kilometers per year. Species that are hardest hit by the shrinking ice are polar bears, seals and walruses, all of which have experienced reductions in their populations. With temperatures expected to rise another six degrees Celsius by the end of the century, Post says polar bears, which now number between 20,000 and 25,000, face possible extinction. "Maybe within our lifetimes or the lifetime of our children, it seems like sea ice loss is happening so quickly that polar bear populations will become increasingly fragmented still. So, I think they are the ones that are at risk for extinction in the near future," he said. Post says there are still many unanswered questions about the effects of climate change in the frozen region, such as why some eco-systems are thriving while other are on the brink of collapse. Researchers hope future studies of Arctic biology will answer those questions. Their new report is published in this week's Science magazine.
Poster Comment:"The report notes that over the past 150 years, the concentration of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere has caused temperatures to warm an average of one-degree Celsius. That has resulted in a progressive loss of the Arctic's seasonal sea ice cover, at the rate of 45,000 square kilometers per year."
The issue about global warming is REAL. Some folks have dismissed the REAL issue entirely because of political flap-jaws, such as Al Gore.
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#1. To: buckeroo, *Agriculture-Environment* (#0)
No. People have dismissed it because the science doesn't back it up. The variations we have seen in climate are natural and constantly changing. This doom and gloom has got to go. We didn't even reach the level of medieval warm period and "nature" seemed to survive that just fine. We are already starting to cool. Couple that with the fact that despite the recent increases, CO2 is at historic lows for the planet. This is a manufactured crisis benefiting no one but the global elites.
I feel the heat rising already. Still, the average temperature of the Earth's atmosphere is rising. As a recommendation and for the future, don't buy coats .... buy bikinis to cool off! :)
“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”
Even if that were true, which it isn't, so what? As I said, we have not reached the same heat as the medieval warm period. BTW, that is also called climate optimum. Why is that? What about the Roman warm period? Warming has not been bad for this planet in the past, why should it be bad now?
Heat is bad. It is bad, bad, bad to all life and certainly humans. We live in a small bandwidth of comfort and capability to survive based upon the natural envelope given to us. The influence of modern technologies and resulting convolution about the natural environment around us, needs serious considerations ... not cheap dismissals. Show me where the Earth is actually cooling.
“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”
I've sent you an email. You need to get some better science. For someone who understands issues surrounding government propaganda you seem blind in this area.
I suspect that you don't like my comments all of a sudden. Are you attempting to bitch-slap me based upon my free and confident scientific standing certainly concerned with CO2 emissions causing spindly plants reducing the food supply?
“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”
Climate and the Carboniferous Period Average global temperatures in the Early Carboniferous Period were hot- approximately 20° C (68° F). However, cooling during the Middle Carboniferous reduced average global temperatures to about 12° C (54° F). As shown on the chart below, this is comparable to the average global temperature on Earth today! Similarly, atmospheric concentrations of carbon dioxide (CO2) in the Early Carboniferous Period were approximately 1500 ppm (parts per million), but by the Middle Carboniferous had declined to about 350 ppm -- comparable to average CO2 concentrations today! Are you arguing that CO2 emissions make you healthy?
“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”
If you want to put it that way, yes. That's why we keep CO2 at higher levels in subs. People evolved at higher CO2 concentrations and thus really do better. The environment does better as well. Man only puts out about 3% CO2. The oceans are the big CO2 source. No amount of international regulation is going to change that.
I want you to put down the whiskey jar and face up to facts..... CO2 emissions are bad for your health. But and since you seem to be in a robust mood to defend and argue your claims about how CO2 makes you healthy .... I want you to make sure that you spread the links right here. Lets start off with a CO2 mask in the hospital for some sick human. Those ugly, oxygen masks just aren't fashionable are they?
“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”
That's why we keep CO2 at higher levels in subs. People evolved at higher CO2 concentrations and thus really do better. Wrong, and wrong. In terms of CO2 being healthy, if you're a plant that's true, as plants require CO2 for their celluar functions. We however require oxygen, not CO2. They don't ADD CO2 on subs, they use scrubbers to REMOVE it. High CO2 levels would mean the sub would have to surface as people would start keeling over otherwise. The oceans are the big CO2 source. That is misleading. Althought SOME parts of the world's oceans release CO2 (as in the tropics), MOST of the oceans ABSORB CO2. It's a cycle that keeps everything in balance, where the ocean aborbs larger amounts of CO2 than it releases, thus absorbing excess CO2 from the rest of the environment.
CO2 Capture from Air – Current Practices Jason J. Heinrich Massachusetts Institute of Technology Despite a human being’s relative tolerance to elevated CO2 levels, travel outside the breathable atmosphere, whether into space or to the bottom of the sea, requires living inside an enclosed airtight system in which carbon dioxide exhaled by the individual must be replaced by a fresh supply of breathable air. For nearly a century, researchers have been developing and testing new systems and technologies designed to remove harmful contaminants from the air and regenerate life-giving oxygen. These critical technologies have enabled humans to fly farther, dive deeper and live longer in places and conditions that do not normally support human life. This paper intends to provide a general overview of the current methods being employed to enable respiration under such circumstances. Don't be insulting. There is no call for that.
It's the weekend. Buck has probably downed a fifth of bourbon by now. ;)
Lets give farmfriend a co2 mask like they do in the subs...
http://kaygriggs.blogspot.com/ On freedom4um.com, Alex Jones is more dangerous than Henry Kissinger. May you live in interesting times.
That is misleading. That is not misleading. It is yet another lie of farmfriend in order to keep her fight going against anyone who knows that her posting graphs and stuff is just a cover for her lack of understanding of science.
http://kaygriggs.blogspot.com/ On freedom4um.com, Alex Jones is more dangerous than Henry Kissinger. May you live in interesting times.
With out showing the increase or decrease of the other elements, Hydrogen, Oxygen and Nitrogen for the same time period, this chart is rather useless. You have to have comparisons to determine what is happening with the chemistry. Carbon Dioxide {CO2} is what all plants breath, Burning the Carbon and releasing the oxygen. This is the concern of the environmentalist in mass cutting of the rain forest, {cutting the oxygen supply}But also, As the sun heats the oceans and causes evaporation, much of the water returns to Hydrogen and Oxygen while some condenses to fresh water as rain. My concern is what is happening to the concentration of Hydrogen. When H is released to the atmosphere it expands releasing heat, Heated by the sun it further expands releasing even more heat until through friction and ionization it collects an electron and becomes stable. If we have a much higher level of hydrogen than normal, we are abound to have more heat, making the planet hotter. I don't think CO2 is what is causing global warming as high CO2 levels are suppose to be filtering the sun.??????
That was meant as "look, levels this high have been recorded and nobody died", it is not meant as a suggested level of operation. High CO2 levels cause headaches, nausea, difficulty in concentration, dizziness, and a host of other bad things. That is why they REMOVE CO2 from the air in subs rather than ADDING it as you implied. Did you even bother thinking about the following paragraph? Despite a human being’s relative tolerance to elevated CO2 levels, travel outside the breathable atmosphere, whether into space or to the bottom of the sea, requires living inside an enclosed airtight system in which carbon dioxide exhaled by the individual must be replaced by a fresh supply of breathable air. For nearly a century, researchers have been developing and testing new systems and technologies designed to remove harmful contaminants from the air and regenerate life-giving oxygen. These critical technologies have enabled humans to fly farther, dive deeper and live longer in places and conditions that do not normally support human life. This paper intends to provide a general overview of the current methods being employed to enable respiration under such circumstances.
In fact farmfriend, here's an authoritive source on the matter; From Emergency and Continuous Exposure Guidance Levels for Selected Submarine Contaminants (2007) SUMMARY OF TOXICITY The information below was taken largely from a more comprehensive review, Spacecraft Maximum Allowable Concentrations for Selected Airborne Contaminants, Volume 2 (NRC 1996). The studies discussed represent those most relevant to submariners and the submarine environment. CO2 is a simple asphyxiant and lethal asphyxiations have been reported at concentrations as low as 110,000 ppm (Hamilton and Hardy 1974). Loss of consciousness can occur within a minute of exposure at 300,000 ppm and within 5- 10 minutes (min) of exposure at 100,000 ppm (HSDB 2004). The effects of concentrations of CO2 between 7,000 and 300,000 ppm in humans and animals are discussed below and include tremor, headaches, chest pain, respiratory and cardiovascular effects, and visual and other central nervous system (CNS) effects. The respiratory, cardiovascular, and CNS effects of CO2 are related to the decreases in blood and tissue pH that result from exposures (Eckenhoff and Longnecker 1995; Yang et al. 1997; HSDB 2004). Changes in pH act directly and indirectly on those systems. The pH changes also trigger various compensatory mechanisms, including increased ventilation to reduce excess CO2 in the bloodstream, increased renal acid excretion to restore acid-base balance, and sympathetic nervous system stimulation to counteract the direct effects of pH changes on heart contractility and vasodilation (Eckenhoff and Longnecker 1995; HSDB 2004). The key effects for setting EEGL and CEGL values are tremor, headache, hyperventilation, visual impairment, and CNS impairment. Effects in Humans Accidental Exposures In a case report of two men who lost consciousness in a wellhead chamber as a result of exposure to a “high concentration” of CO2 in the atmosphere, one man exhibited constricted visual fields, enlarged blind spots, photophobia, loss of convergence and accommodation, deficient dark adaptation, headaches, insomnia, and personality changes (Freedman and Sevel 1966). The other man died of asphyxia. In a similar incident, one overexposed man died after 11 months in a coma; he exhibited retinal atrophy and gliosis as well as loss of all ganglion cells (Sevel and Freedman 1967). In addition to that delayed fatality, three men died immediately from asphyxia. These studies are not relevant to establishing EEGL and CEGL values, but they are consistent with the findings that CO2 affects vision. Yuck.
http://kaygriggs.blogspot.com/ On freedom4um.com, Alex Jones is more dangerous than Henry Kissinger. May you live in interesting times.
Great to see you posting FL; the last time was on LP wasn't it? Not many take this particular unpopular position about global warming considerations so you might experience a blood-bath of criticism.
“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”
Actually we get our oxygen from the oceans not the forests.
I implied no such thing. Again you have twisted what I say to mean something not intended.
Great to see you posting FL; Likewise buck. the last time was on LP wasn't it? Yep, the last time we spoke was on LP a couple of years ago I think. Not many take this particular unpopular position about global warming considerations so you might experience a blood-bath of criticism. Been there and done that... LOL Now I just lay it out for all to see in my tagline. :)
Well perhaps I misunderstood what you were saying. You were saying that CO2 in the air is a good thing, that's it sort of like a nutrient or something, and that it was a desirable component in the atmosphere of a sub. If I'm wrong, please let me know.
I don't drink bourbon, ever. Today, I am having a favorite rum beverage though ... yummy.
“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”
Are you now trying to say that trees don't produce oxygen? "A single mature tree can absorb carbon dioxide at a rate of 48 lbs./year and release enough oxygen back into the atmosphere to support 2 human beings." - McAliney, Mike. Arguments for Land Conservation: Documentation and Information Sources for Land Resources Protection, Trust for Public Land, Sacramento, CA, December, 1993 "On average, one tree produces nearly 260 pounds of oxygen each year. Two mature trees can provide enough oxygen for a family of four." - Canada's environmental agency, Environment Canada "Mean net annual oxygen production (after accounting for decomposition) per hectare of trees (100% tree canopy) offsets oxygen consumption of 19 people per year (eight people per acre of tree cover), but ranges from nine people per hectare of canopy cover (four people/ac cover) in Minneapolis, Minnesota, to 28 people/ha cover (12 people/ac cover) in Calgary, Alberta." - U.S. Forest Service and International Society of Arboriculture joint publication
Hooray: Somebody Knows their world chemistry. Better than Al Goare, ha ha ha.
Yup. Trees don't do nathin. Let's just cut them all down. Gives people jobs, right?
http://kaygriggs.blogspot.com/ On freedom4um.com, Alex Jones is more dangerous than Henry Kissinger. May you live in interesting times.
There is no global warming. We are back into global cooling, and have been fo years.
You sho got that rite.
http://kaygriggs.blogspot.com/ On freedom4um.com, Alex Jones is more dangerous than Henry Kissinger. May you live in interesting times.
Wouldn't be the first time with you. If you want to over simplify it yes. But then you twisted it and misconstrued it as always. CO2, like water, is necessary for life and like water, too much or too little is undesirable. There is an optimum level. There are no studies that show levels below 380pmv is optimal. None. Perhaps you can provide some evidence for such. Where I take issue with you is when I say it is a necessary component and that their are desirable levels you twist that to mean more is better and there is no bad. I never said high levels were good. Not once. I said we were at historic lows. We are. I never said they add CO2 to submarines. I said they keep the levels higher than normal atmospheric levels. They do. They keep subs at about 500pmv because humans operate better at that slightly elevated level. That is not the same as adding it. Nothing to do with toxic levels or the need to remove excess levels. Yet that didn't stop you from twisting what I said into that.
There are various disinformation bureaus that think and publickly broadcast that CO2 emissions are good for plants and trees and vegetation and agriculture as a whole; that CO2 emissions are therefore "GOOD" for all of mankind. Have you ever seen that pant-load?
“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”
No. Again you twist what I said. If I wanted to say that trees don't produce oxygen I would have said trees don't produce oxygen. I didn't did I? No, what I said was we don't get our oxygen from trees. The bulk of atmospheric oxygen comes from the oceans not the forests. Yes trees produce oxygen. The oceans produce much much more.
Well I do try. I have the benefit of corresponding with international climatologists and scientists of many disciplines. I try to garner what wisdom I can from them.
I disagree while sucking on my cool and fermented mint-julip. Here is why: Message:
Keep in mind that the accuracy of such estimates is not completely known as the
Woods Hole website states
"Unfortunately, the global rates of photosynthesis and respiration are neither
known nor measured well enough to determine annual changes in carbon storage."
There is a great deal of interest in computer modeling the global carbon-oxygen
patterns because of global warming/climate change concerns.
Oxygen makes up about 21% or 210,000 ppm of the atmosphere. Atmospheric carbon
dioxide is now at about 365 ppm, and Salisbury and Ross (1985) state that only
about 10% of the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is used each year in
photosynthesis. If that figure is a good estimate than you can see that a very
tiny percentage of the earth's total atmospheric oxygen is produced each year
by photosynthesis, i.e. 36.5 ppm is only 0.017% of total atmospheric oxygen.
Despite the tiny percentage, annual global photosynthesis is immense. The
second website cited says annual photosynthesis fixes carbon each year
equivalent to "a line of railroad cars filled with coal stretching between
Earth and the Moon 45 times."
Right now, of course, the earth's oxygen level is falling every so slightly as
the carbon dioxide concentration increases about 1.5 parts per million (ppm)
each year. The carbon dioxide increase/oxygen decrease is due to deforestation
and burning of fossil fuels. Thus, we are using some of the atmospheric oxygen
added by ancient photosynthesis. Fossil fuels, such as coal, oil and natural
gas represent carbon fixed by ancient photosynthesis. Fossil fuels can also be
considered to represent photosynthetic oxygen placed in the atmosphere tens-of-
millions to hundreds-of-millions of years ago. Therefore, you can consider that
you are breathing some oxygen originally added to the atmosphere by giant
lycopods, tree ferns and giant horsetails from the Carboniferous era 360 to 286
million years ago.
References
Salisbury, F.B. and Ross, C.W. 1985. Plant Physiology. Belmont, CA: Wadsworth.
Woods Hole Research Center Carbon Cycle
Earth's First-Ever Global Biological Record Documented from Space
“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”
Let's see if I can clear this up. Did you not post the following in response to buckeroo's question, "Are you arguing that CO2 emissions make you healthy? "? If you want to put it that way, yes. That's why we keep CO2 at higher levels in subs. So you didn't go into specifics about parts per million, you just said CO2 would make you healthy, and that subs have higher levels for that reason. Subs have higher levels than normal atmospheric levels because people are exhaling CO2 in a confined space, and the scrubbers are designed to remove a certain volume of CO2 per hour, where the levels can fluctuate from 0 ppm to 10,600 ppm on a nuclear powered ballistic missile submarine, with an average CO2 concentration of 3,500 ppm, and a range of 300-11,300 ppm on a nuclear- powered attack submarine, with an average level of 4,100 ppm. It has nothing to do with WANTING CO2 in the air, it has to do with the limits of the ability of scrubbers to remove it.
Here is what we have to do on future posts regarding these threads: no more pillaging. Take an oath of honor.
“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”
I will weigh in here. A CO2/O2 balance is required in the blood stream. In fact too much O2 can be toxic and eventually cause death. However, that being said, the CO2 levels are regulated internally and are generated by the body itself. A pure (at sea level) 21% O2 79% N gas mixture is ideal and will sustain life just fine. CO2 being added to this mix does not increase capability nor does it promote better health. In fact CO2 is considered a pollutant that in sufficent quantities (8% or so) will eventually lead to impairment and at higher levels death. Note: the feeling of suffocation is CO2 induced. Thus if you enter a pure nitrogen environment you would suffocate and die without ever realizing you are experiencing hypoxia.
Thanks for your excellent input.
CO2 is totally neccessary for human life..... try breathing without it in your blood stream.
Doubt it was excellent. I am not a physiologist nor a medical doctor. Just a simple country-bumpkin run of the mill scientist. :-) What I was trying to convey was that indeed CO2 is necessary in the blood stream but it is regulated and generated internally from our on physiology thru the process of breathing and the interaction of the O2 within our cardiovascular system/cellular use of O2. From the conversation upthread, CO2 is not artificially added to a submarines or spacecraft since the human organism generates plenty of that as we breath. The real issue is removing said CO2. They do their best but scrubbers can only do so much sometimes resulting in higher than normal CO2 levels. Again take what I say with a grain of salt - this is not my field in any way shape or form. -Doc-
Yep, but nitrogen in the atmosphere prevents that from happening.
Indeed, however, a nitrogen mix is what we evolved within and thus ideal for a ST&P environment. In fact, under certain conditions especially non STP (think diving), we remove the nitrogen from the breathing mix (removing it from our blood as well) and replace it with another gas such as helium or hydrogen.
I recently read that an unanticipated consequence of the green movement's campaign against coal-fired industries is that there is less smog and the resulting sunlight getting through actually warms the earth! So, at the same time that greenhouse gases are reduced there's a reduction in smog, and they essentially cancel each other out. But, we still have less acid rain. It would appear that the issue (GW) is so complex that no one has accurately factored in all of the variables, and because we don't have enough empirical data (for a millenium for instance) to state with absolute certainty that the planet is heating up or that it's anything but a cycle.
"I just play to the goddess of music-and I know she's dancing."__Taj Mahal
There was a good study recently about the interaction of the solar wind and our magnetosphere and how it heats our atmosphere. I should post is as an article. Of course the solar wind has diminished lately in conjunction with the decreased solar activity. All signs point to cooling. Give me a minute to get the article posted. I have to find it in my email.
We certainly wouldn't want that sciency stuff to stand in the way of Oboingo's & Goldman Sachs' Global Warming Tax. We make our own reality now.
The issue about global warming is REAL. Some folks have dismissed the REAL issue entirely because of political flap-jaws, such as Al Gore.
"If, from the more wretched parts of the old world, we look at those which are in an advanced stage of improvement, we still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised, to furnish new pretenses for revenues and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without tribute." --Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, 1791
#2. To: farmfriend (#1)
#3. To: buckeroo (#2)
Still, the average temperature of the Earth's atmosphere is rising.
"If, from the more wretched parts of the old world, we look at those which are in an advanced stage of improvement, we still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised, to furnish new pretenses for revenues and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without tribute." --Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, 1791
#4. To: farmfriend (#3)
#5. To: buckeroo (#4)
"If, from the more wretched parts of the old world, we look at those which are in an advanced stage of improvement, we still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised, to furnish new pretenses for revenues and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without tribute." --Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, 1791
#6. To: farmfriend (#5)
I've sent you an email. You need to get some better science. For someone who understands issues surrounding government propaganda you seem blind in this area.
#7. To: buckeroo, vitamin Z, *Agriculture-Environment* (#6)
Similarities with our Present World
"If, from the more wretched parts of the old world, we look at those which are in an advanced stage of improvement, we still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised, to furnish new pretenses for revenues and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without tribute." --Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, 1791
#8. To: farmfriend (#7)
#9. To: buckeroo (#8)
(Edited)
Are you arguing that CO2 emissions make you healthy?
"If, from the more wretched parts of the old world, we look at those which are in an advanced stage of improvement, we still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised, to furnish new pretenses for revenues and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without tribute." --Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, 1791
#10. To: farmfriend (#9)
If you want to put it that way, yes.
#11. To: farmfriend, buckeroo (#9)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#12. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#11)
June 2003
MIT LFEE 2003-001 WP
Laboratory for Energy and the Environment
77 Massachusetts Avenue
Cambridge, MA 02139-4307 http://lfee.mit.edu/publications/ Publication No. LFEE 2003-001 WP INTRODUCTION
People generate carbon dioxide at a rate of about 1 kg/person/day (2.2 lbs/person/day). In confined spaces, this can lead to elevated levels of CO2. These CO2 concentrations above normal levels do not necessarily produce harmful working conditions. OSHA guidelines allow workers to operate in a CO2 air contaminant limit of 5,000 ppm1 for more than 8 hours. Submarines often operate at levels close to 7,000 ppm and have even recorded levels of 30,000 ppm (Honeywell 1989). The air revitalization system on the first international space station, Freedom, was designed to maintain CO2 levels of 2000 ppm or less, while life support systems designed for space suits maintain CO2 levels at or below 5000 ppm.
"If, from the more wretched parts of the old world, we look at those which are in an advanced stage of improvement, we still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised, to furnish new pretenses for revenues and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without tribute." --Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, 1791
#13. To: buckeroo (#10)
I want you to put down the whiskey jar and face up to facts.....
"If, from the more wretched parts of the old world, we look at those which are in an advanced stage of improvement, we still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised, to furnish new pretenses for revenues and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without tribute." --Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, 1791
#14. To: farmfriend (#13)
#15. To: buckeroo, farmfriend (#10)
Lets start off with a CO2 mask in the hospital for some sick human. Those ugly, oxygen masks just aren't fashionable are they?
#16. To: FormerLurker, farmfriend (#11)
The oceans are the big CO2 source.
#17. To: farmfriend (#7)
Post #7
#18. To: farmfriend (#12)
Submarines often operate at levels close to 7,000 ppm and have even recorded levels of 30,000 ppm (Honeywell 1989).
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#19. To: farmfriend, buckaroo, clitoria (#12)
Submarine crew are reported to be the major source of CO2 on board submarines (Crawl 2003). Data collected on nine nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarines indicate an average CO2 concentration of 3,500 ppm with a range of 0- 10,600 ppm, and data collected on 10 nuclear-powered attack submarines indicate an average CO2 concentration of 4,100 ppm with a range of 300-11,300 ppm (Hagar 2003).
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#20. To: FormerLurker (#19)
he exhibited retinal atrophy and gliosis as well as loss of all ganglion cells (Sevel and Freedman 1967)
#21. To: FormerLurker (#18)
#22. To: Patriot44000 (#17)
This is the concern of the environmentalist in mass cutting of the rain forest, {cutting the oxygen supply}
"If, from the more wretched parts of the old world, we look at those which are in an advanced stage of improvement, we still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised, to furnish new pretenses for revenues and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without tribute." --Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, 1791
#23. To: FormerLurker (#18)
rather than ADDING it as you implied.
"If, from the more wretched parts of the old world, we look at those which are in an advanced stage of improvement, we still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised, to furnish new pretenses for revenues and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without tribute." --Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, 1791
#24. To: buckeroo (#21)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#25. To: farmfriend (#23)
I implied no such thing. Again you have twisted what I say to mean something not intended.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#26. To: Vitamin Z (#14)
Buck has probably downed a fifth of bourbon by now.
#27. To: farmfriend, Patriot44000 (#22)
Actually we get our oxygen from the oceans not the forests.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#28. To: farmfriend (#22)
#29. To: farmfriend (#22)
Actually we get our oxygen from the oceans not the forests.
#30. To: buckeroo (#0)
There's no place better thanTurtle Island.
#31. To: FormerLurker (#27)
#32. To: FormerLurker (#25)
Well perhaps I misunderstood what you were saying.
You were saying that CO2 in the air is a good thing, that's it sort of like a nutrient or something, and that it was a desirable component in the atmosphere of a sub. If I'm wrong, please let me know.
"If, from the more wretched parts of the old world, we look at those which are in an advanced stage of improvement, we still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised, to furnish new pretenses for revenues and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without tribute." --Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, 1791
#33. To: FormerLurker (#27)
#34. To: FormerLurker (#27)
Are you now trying to say that trees don't produce oxygen?
"If, from the more wretched parts of the old world, we look at those which are in an advanced stage of improvement, we still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised, to furnish new pretenses for revenues and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without tribute." --Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, 1791
#35. To: Patriot44000 (#28)
Hooray: Somebody Knows their world chemistry. Better than Al Goare, ha ha ha.
"If, from the more wretched parts of the old world, we look at those which are in an advanced stage of improvement, we still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised, to furnish new pretenses for revenues and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without tribute." --Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, 1791
#36. To: farmfriend (#34)
The bulk of atmospheric oxygen comes from the oceans not the forests.
Re: Where does most of the world's oxygen come from
Date: Wed Sep 26 22:17:46 2001
Posted By: David Hershey, Faculty, Botany, NA
Area of science: Earth Sciences
ID: 1000835984.Es
There is disagreement over which photosynthetic organisms, land plants or
phytoplankton and algae in the oceans, provide the majority of the earth's
photosynthesis. Some experts ascribe more than half of current global
photosynthesis to the oceans. Salisbury and Ross (1985) estimated one third of
photosynthesis in oceans and two-thirds on land. They presented 1975 estimates
that rainforests accounted for 22% of global photosynthesis and the oceans 32%.
We know that oxygen definitely comes from photosynthesis and rain forests do
produce a significant but decreasing amount because of all the rainforest
destruction.
#37. To: farmfriend, buckeroo, clitoria (#32)
I said they keep the levels higher than normal atmospheric levels. They do. They keep subs at about 500pmv because humans operate better at that slightly elevated level.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#38. To: FormerLurker, farmfriend, clitoria (#37)
#39. To: All (#38)
#40. To: Dr_Tron, FormerLurker, buckeroo, clitoria, christine (#39)
"If, from the more wretched parts of the old world, we look at those which are in an advanced stage of improvement, we still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised, to furnish new pretenses for revenues and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without tribute." --Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, 1791
#41. To: buckeroo (#33)
There are various disinformation bureaus that think and publickly broadcast that CO2 emissions are good for plants and trees and vegetation and agriculture as a whole; that CO2 emissions are therefore "GOOD" for all of mankind.
#42. To: farmfriend (#40)
#43. To: Dr_Tron (#39)
In fact too much O2 can be toxic and eventually cause death
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#44. To: FormerLurker (#43)
#45. To: buckeroo, farmfriend (#2)
#46. To: HOUNDDAWG, buckeroo, Dr_Tron (#45)
It would appear that the issue (GW) is so complex that no one has accurately factored in all of the variables, and because we don't have enough empirical data (for a millenium for instance) to state with absolute certainty that the planet is heating up or that it's anything but a cycle.
"If, from the more wretched parts of the old world, we look at those which are in an advanced stage of improvement, we still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised, to furnish new pretenses for revenues and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without tribute." --Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, 1791
#47. To: HOUNDDAWG (#45)
Mike Flaherty: Yeah, it's been there a long time. I wish I knew which corner.
My Man Godfrey (1936)
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