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Title: Positioning herself as a libertarian?
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URL Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/24/us/politics/24palin.html?_r=1
Published: Sep 23, 2009
Author: Mark McDonald
Post Date: 2009-09-23 11:13:13 by christine
Keywords: None
Views: 569
Comments: 63
HONG KONG — Sarah Palin, in what was billed as her first speech overseas, spoke on Wednesday to Asian bankers, investors and fund managers. A number of people who heard the speech in a packed hotel ballroom, which was closed to the media, said Mrs. Palin spoke from notes for 90 minutes and that she was articulate, well-prepared and even compelling. “The speech was wide-ranging, very balanced, and she beat all expectations,” said Doug A. Coulter, head of private equity in the Asia-Pacific region for LGT Capital Partners. “She didn’t sound at all like a far-right-wing conservative. She seemed to be positioning herself as a libertarian or a small-c conservative,” he said, adding that she mentioned both Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher. “She brought up both those names.” Mrs. Palin said she was speaking as “someone from Main Street U.S.A.,” and she touched on her concerns about oversized federal bailouts and the unsustainable American government deficit. She did not repeat her attack from last month that the Obama administration’s health care proposals would create a “death panel” that would allow federal bureaucrats to decide who is “worthy of health care.” Cameron Sinclair, another speaker at the event, said Mrs. Palin emphasized the need for a grassroots rebirth of the Republican Party driven by party leaders outside Washington. A number of attendees thought Mrs. Palin, the former vice presidential candidate, was using the speech to begin to broaden her foreign policy credentials before making a run for the presidency in 2012. “She’s definitely a serious future presidential candidate, and I understand why she plays so well in middle America,” said Mr. Coulter, a Canadian. Mrs. Palin was faulted during the campaign last year for her lack of foreign policy experience and expertise. As the governor of Alaska, she said in her own defense, she had a unique insight because “you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska” — a remark that was widely lampooned. Accompanying Mrs. Palin to Hong Kong was Randy Scheunemann, the former foreign policy adviser to John McCain, who lost the 2008 election to President Obama. Mrs. Palin did not take questions from the media after the speech, and there was a high degree of security and secrecy around the event. Only invited guests and a handful of employees from CLSA, the brokerage house that sponsored the event, were allowed inside the ballroom. A CLSA spokeswoman declined to confirm a rumor that Mrs. Palin was paid $300,000 for her Hong Kong appearance. When she resigned as governor in July, Mrs. Palin cited numerous reasons for stepping down, including more than $500,000 in legal fees that she and her husband, Todd, incurred because of 15 ethics complaints filed against her during her two and a half years in office. Mr. Coulter said CLSA has a history of inviting keynote speakers who are “newsworthy and potentially controversial.” Other previous speakers at the conference have included Al Gore, Alan Greenspan, Bono and Archbishop Desmond Tutu. Mrs. Palin’s speech took place at the Grand Hyatt on the Victoria Harbor waterfront and amid the soaring towers of corporate giants like AIG, HSBC and the Bank of China. Some attendees saw Hong Kong as an auspicious place for her first major international appearance. Melvin Goodé, a regional marketing consultant, thought Mrs. Palin chose Hong Kong because, he said, it was “a place where things happen and where freedom can be expanded upon.” “It’s not Beijing or Shanghai,” said Mr. Goodé . “She also mentioned Tibet, Burma and North Korea in the same breath as places where China should be more sensitive and careful about how people are treated. She said it on a human-rights level.” Mr. Goodé, an African-American who said he did some campaign polling for President Obama, said Mrs. Palin mentioned President Obama three times on Wednesday. “And there was nothing derogatory in it, no sleight of hand, and believe me, I was listening for that,” he said, adding that Mrs. Palin referred to Mr. Obama as “our president,” with the emphasis on “our.” Mr. Goodé, a New Yorker who said he would never vote for Mrs. Palin, said she acquitted herself well. “They really prepared her well,” he said. “She was articulate and she held her own. I give her credit. They’ve tried to categorize her as not being bright. She’s bright.”
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#1. To: christine (#0)
Could be. It feels...odd...to have an ideology I've held most of my life suddenly become "popular". Up until this year I've always felt like the odd man out, the fringe-nut that everybody quietly agreed with when they pulled me aside to talk, but had to laugh at in front of their friends.
MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.
Hmmm...is this the first sign that the neocons have provided her with speechwriters and maybe an informal campaign strategist for a 2012 run? Up until now, she was so impromptu, I discounted her chances in 2012. But with good handlers, she could be formidable. I find this positioning of her as some kind of ultimate-outsider-but-just-plain-folks non-pol politician to be intriguing. She could stage a major comeback, especially given a strong early boost in IA/NH/SC where her message could play well.
What is a big-c conservative?
Imagine if Palinites and Paulites could put their differences aside?
NO to Lisbon! I fear a YES verdict more than Swine Flu....
Imagine if palin weren't a NEOCON suck ass ho ??? Remember mcCFR's Treason that she promoted ???
Heh. She's not smart enough to be a libertarian - small l or capital L.
ping
If one doesn't fit neatly into some government category, they're different and must be fixed.-jethro tull
I have a place she can "position" herself.
Obama's health care plan shall be written by a committee whose head says he doesn't understand it, passed by a Congress that hasn't read it, signed by a president who smokes and has no birth certificate, funded by a treasury chief who did not pay his taxes, overseen by a surgeon general who is overweight and financed by a country that is nearly broke. What could possibly go wrong? - buckeroo Her support of the tribe is a deal-breaker here.
Ah. All is well with the world. “And there was nothing derogatory in it, no sleight of hand, and believe me, I was listening for that,” You don't say. he said, adding that Mrs. Palin referred to Mr. Obama as “our president,” with the emphasis on “our.” Oh well.
When a whole society keeps saying "It's not about race," the person who BELIEVES that will be seen as an idiot. Even by children. Even by ILLITERATE children.
Goebbels said it well: You can with justice claim: "Yes, but at the moment Christianity took over the state, it began to cease being Christian." That is the tragedy of all great ideas. At the moment they enter the realm of this life of sin, of the all-too-human, they leave the heavens and lose their romantic magic. They become something normal. We are not discussing whether or not one can change the nature of life. Things have gone on this way for millions of years, and will go on in the same way for millions more. You will have to ask a higher power why that is so. At the moment an idea takes practical form, it loses its angel's wings, its romantic mystery. But don't let it bother you. Too much.
When a whole society keeps saying "It's not about race," the person who BELIEVES that will be seen as an idiot. Even by children. Even by ILLITERATE children.
Most people feel compelled to "agree with the herd" and don't want to be identified as "Rogue". Those of us who don't are the sheepdogs and we are, at least for now, a small minority, but a very strong minority. Realize that you DO shape other people's opinions - if only by being willing to speak and having a command of the facts. That stuns people in our semi-literate "News McNuggets" society. Most people no longer read, and many can't read at what used to considered the adult norm - thanks to the intentional sabotage of reading by the Psychs in Publik Skools, and they still look up to someone who can and does even if they will not admit it.
"An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you know and what you don't. ~ Anatole France
Imagine if palin weren't a NEOCON suck ass ho ??? Remember mcCFR's Treason that she promoted ??? She has come along nicely. Neither you nor I traveled this path to awareness of the realities of this world in one fell swoop. She has come along quite a bit since that rather naive Alaskan Moose Hunter from Wasilla got tabbed to be the Fall Girl for McLame.
"An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you know and what you don't. ~ Anatole France
Not even close! She is simply "being" positioned by her handlers to look Libertarian, A Flip- Flopping manneuver to hoodwink the voters down the road. I'm surprised how many will buy into it. What she was when she came on the scene is what she really is. She'll say whatever the voters want to hear. It is rare for a zebra to change its stripes. She has told us up front that she is an israeli firster and demonstrated that she will buckle under pressure. Example: her resignation as governor. A few years into a presidential term and she will resign to write a book and grub for those big speaking fees. Those in love with her"hot body" probably have better at home. If she runs in 2012 she will be a glutton for more punishment. Tricky Dick fooled the people and look what he tried to do (almost done) to the country.
If I come to ever used Goebbels as a truth teller, I'll slash my wrists and call it a life. That an idea gains acceptance does not mean the idea is corrupt or is necessarily corruptible at the get go. If I recall history correctly, a group of rowdy guys decided that the individual should matter more than the state and went out and broke ties with the world's largest empire at the time. Their thought seemed to hold for a good 100 years at least. That's something. Why those on "our" side feel the constant need to surrender before firing the first shot, or view every success as somehow tainted and unworthy of admiration, I just do not know. We've got to get over this self loathing that the statists have bred into us over the last few decades.
MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.
There's no way for you to know how smart she is. She managed to get elected governor of a state, which is no small feat. What have you done? I'm not one of those Palin gushers, but I'm not going to take the tactics of the left and constantly tear her down either "just because".
MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.
The neocons have zero to gain and everything to lose if they'd "try to position" her as a libertarian. Libertarianism is the exact opposite of what they want in the world. Maybe now that she's not in an official spotlight, she's talking like she wants, and it's not as silly as people want her to be. Dunno.
MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.
Judging by Jefferson's writings, their experiment did not outlive them. It became something normal. All revolutions are betrayed.
When a whole society keeps saying "It's not about race," the person who BELIEVES that will be seen as an idiot. Even by children. Even by ILLITERATE children.
He was upset about the small cracks, not the fall of their ideas overall. I'm gathering from your words that you feel that we should do nothing and give up and continue to rant on the silent fringe. If that's what you want, I respect your right to make that choice. I can't sit by and watch my children's lives, and my life, and my wife's life, and the lives of my friends and neighbors, being reduced to that of slave.
MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.
Maybe now that she's not in an official spotlight, she's talking like she wants, and it's not as silly as people want her to be. Dunno. She may have realized that she is the only visible candidate in the GOP that has any charismatic appeal. Romney doesn't, Pawlenty and Huck and the others are all dull as dirt. So the neocons, led by Kristol, are still trying to use her. But they might find she intends to use them. Look at what she did when she became governor of Alaska; she turned quickly on a dime and went after the very corrupt Alaska GOP. The Sarah may be a little more sly than those naughty-librarian glasses would make you think.
So the neocons, led by Kristol, are still trying to use her. Maybe, but that would be silly. They have nothing to gain by backing a libertarian-ish candidate. Nothing. But they might find she intends to use them. Look at what she did when she became governor of Alaska; she turned quickly on a dime and went after the very corrupt Alaska GOP. That's the real danger there, and I suspect that the power brokers know it. More likely than the neocons using here, I'd wager they'd treat her like they treated Ron Paul if she ever ran again, especially now with all of the pro-liberty quotes she's starting to utter. It would make me giggle to see her take away what's left of the small government contingency of the Republican party and the Reagan Democrats as well. Even if she stumbles and falls, she'd be undercutting a lot of the neocon/liberal base.
MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.
He did not minimize them. He did not think them small. But he was also neither despairing, nor did he yet advise rebellion again. It would have been interesting if he had lived to see the War Against the States. I'm gathering from your words that you feel that we should do nothing Not at all. But I no longer call myself a libertarian.
When a whole society keeps saying "It's not about race," the person who BELIEVES that will be seen as an idiot. Even by children. Even by ILLITERATE children.
But they were small, in retrospect, which is why he didn't advise rebellion. Not at all. But I no longer call myself a libertarian. That's your choice. Me, I'm not going to be mad because we're gaining traction on our ideas without the ideas having to be altered. Who knows what the future brings, but I won't sit by and let others determine it for me, and mutter about those who try. Which is my choice.
MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.
Yes, it is.
When a whole society keeps saying "It's not about race," the person who BELIEVES that will be seen as an idiot. Even by children. Even by ILLITERATE children.
I can see how that would be good for the Palin supporters, but what's in it for the "Paulites"? 1. She wants a "Path to Citizenship" for 30 million illegal aliens. 2. She's an Israelfirster. 3. Palin's own husband said that she and John McCain are so alike "it's scary."
She's got a lot of hurdles to clear to be acceptable IMO. Let's see if she's up to it. Right now, for the reasons you enumerate, the jury is still out. Here's to the future and the hope that she does actually "convert". That would be something.
MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.
Exactly. Well said! If we don't examine every belief, both conscious and (much more difficult) unconscious, how can we purge our minds of bilge and mind-control memes, unconsciously absorbed in childhood or semi-consciously accepted in what passes for adulthood in the u.s.? :) How can we think clearly with rocks in our head?
Libertarians and small government paleo-conservatives have gotten so used to being the losing underdog that it "took" as a meme in our heads. It needs to be rooted out and stomped.
MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.
Why don't we just start with someone who doesn't have all those hurdles to overcome? Also her self-serving erratic behaviors to me leaves a lot to be desired.
And who would you suggest? She's right in the spotlight. She's followed day and night by the media. If she does a public transformation from a statist into a libertarian for all to see, that would serve a huge service to the pro-liberty side of the nation. Personally, I've always wondered why Clint Eastwood never spoke up and did something more substantial. Drew Carey seems more content pseudo-living in Vegas with strippers to care to make a stand any more. Penn & Teller are almost unknown these days (except on Showtime, or in Vegas). Ron Paul has been marginalized effectively, though Beck is helping him a lot now. Kurt Russell tries, but he's fading fast. I could go on with the libertarian celebs, all of who are content to sit back and remain mostly silent. That leaves who? Somebody unknown, sure, but my neighbor switching from statist to libertarian isn't going to make 100 million people sit up and take notice of pro-liberty ideas and examine them seriously. Palin does it, and it will. Just speculation of course, but it seems to be the case for others who are starting to warm up to libertarianism in the national spotlight. I like watching earnest changes of mind towards liberty. I'm not saying she's having that right now because she's not, and it may all be a game or ploy, dunno. If it becomes a change of mind however, I'm not going to sneer at her. We need as many high profile people as we can get.
MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.
If she ever had that tendency she should have stayed as far away from McCain as possible. She's just an opportunist and so far her political and now private sector behaviors backs that up.
I've had this debate already (not with you). If she has a change of mind in the future, in earnest, that implies that she did not hold the position in the past. Am I the only one who believes in free will and the ability of the individual to have a real change of heart? Who knows what her game is? I'm not saying that she's doing at the moment. But it is a good sign to hear her at least mouthing coherent libertarian ideas right now. Tomorrow, five years from now, who knows, maybe she goes insane and back to her full on statist position.
MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.
Mrs. Palin did not take questions from the media after the speech, and there was a high degree of security and secrecy around the event. i have raised eyebrows.
Show me your friends, and I'll tell you who you are. This guy is poison.
Me too.
I don't know what that means coming from you. The last I remember, you were lobbying and making excuses for the invading Mexicans too.
That's the problem .....she's playing the part of Everywoman. There has to be at least one other person that would make a good candidate, or else the party is not doing it's homework and deserves to die.
I'm my immediate family and a few Puerto Ricans. "Friend" is another abused word that has lost a lot of meaning. One thing to remember about women is they can be practical to a degree that most men would find astonishing. At least she's not a coal-burner. It's possible she knows she's being used, and is using in return, but that doesn't usually work out very well where the tribe is concerned.
When a whole society keeps saying "It's not about race," the person who BELIEVES that will be seen as an idiot. Even by children. Even by ILLITERATE children.
Who...what? I'm not SonOfLiberty on FreeRepublic, fwiw. If you weren't referencing that, then I have no clue what you're talking about.
MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.
Or, maybe she isn't playing a part. Being skeptical is healthy. Don't let it turn into crass cynicism however. Time will tell. I'm always willing to wait, and watch before I cast judgment.
MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.
Why??? If you recall many of us wondered..WHO...made the choice and ...WHY... as soon as Palin was brought out. It was not by lottery nor by chance, nor was it an in and lose, see you later deal. Re read the squib I sent you yesterday.
Comments (42 - 63) not displayed.
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#2. To: SonOfLiberty (#1)
#3. To: christine (#0)
“She didn’t sound at all like a far-right-wing conservative. She seemed to be positioning herself as a libertarian or a small-c conservative,” he said...
#4. To: christine (#0)
#5. To: irishthatcherite (#4)
Imagine if Palinites and Paulites could put their differences aside?
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams 
#6. To: Rotara (#5)
Imagine if palin weren't a NEOCON suck ass ho ???
#7. To: christine, *libertarians*, *Sarah Palin 2012* (#0)
#8. To: christine (#0)
Let me get this straight.
#9. To: freepatriot32. all (#7)
#10. To: christine (#0)
Accompanying Mrs. Palin to Hong Kong was Randy Scheunemann
#11. To: SonOfLiberty (#1)
It feels...odd...to have an ideology I've held most of my life suddenly become "popular".
#12. To: SonOfLiberty, christine (#1)
It feels...odd...to have an ideology I've held most of my life suddenly become "popular". Up until this year I've always felt like the odd man out, the fringe-nut that everybody quietly agreed with when they pulled me aside to talk, but had to laugh at in front of their friends.
#13. To: Rotara (#5)
Imagine if Palinites and Paulites could put their differences aside?
#14. To: christine (#0)
Positioning herself as a libertarian?
#15. To: Prefrontal Vortex (#11)
#16. To: winston_smith (#6)
#17. To: TooConservative (#2)
#18. To: SonOfLiberty (#15)
(Edited)
Their thought seemed to hold for a good 100 years at least.
#19. To: Prefrontal Vortex (#18)
#20. To: SonOfLiberty (#17)
The neocons have zero to gain and everything to lose if they'd "try to position" her as a libertarian. Libertarianism is the exact opposite of what they want in the world.
#21. To: TooConservative (#20)
She may have realized that she is the only visible candidate in the GOP that has any charismatic appeal. Romney doesn't, Pawlenty and Huck and the others are all dull as dirt.
#22. To: SonOfLiberty (#19)
He was upset about the small cracks, not the fall of their ideas overall.
#23. To: Prefrontal Vortex (#22)
He did not minimize them. He did not think them small. But he was also neither despairing, nor did he yet advise rebellion again.
#24. To: SonOfLiberty (#23)
That's your choice.
#25. To: irishthatcherite (#4)
"Imagine if Palinites and Paulites could put their differences aside?"
#26. To: Big Meanie (#25)
#27. To: SonOfLiberty (#15)
(Edited)
Why those on "our" side feel the constant need to surrender before firing the first shot, or view every success as somehow tainted and unworthy of admiration, I just do not know. We've got to get over this self loathing that the statists have bred into us over the last few decades.
Anger? as a first reaction to get your a$$ moving, once you see through the Media Matrix and set yourself free from your lifelong mind control collar. Sustainable? not enough to screen your intention to be free from the Talosians, who can’t read primitive emotions but know what you watch on cable/sat, read on the Internet and eat. Our ultimate weapon is laughter and amused detachment at the folly of the would-be emperors. Fear mongers HATE it when that card doesn’t work. The humiliation of being seen as merely a naked ape is THEIR big fear. Laugh the bastards off the stage! Tell your friends that we can build a real civilization from the ashes of the totalitarian game!
#28. To: HighLairEon (#27)
#29. To: SonOfLiberty (#26)
She's got a lot of hurdles to clear to be acceptable IMO. Let's see if she's up to it. Right now, for the reasons you enumerate, the jury is still out.
#30. To: mininggold (#29)
#31. To: SonOfLiberty (#30)
like watching earnest changes of mind towards liberty. I'm not saying she's having that right now because she's not, and it may all be a game or ploy, dunno. If it becomes a change of mind however, I'm not going to sneer at her. We need as many high profile people as we can get.
#32. To: mininggold (#31)
(Edited)
#33. To: Prefrontal Vortex, all (#10)
Accompanying Mrs. Palin to Hong Kong was Randy Scheunemann, the former foreign policy adviser to John McCain, who lost the 2008 election to President Obama.
#34. To: Prefrontal Vortex (#10)
Scheunemann
#35. To: christine (#33)
i have raised eyebrows.
"If, from the more wretched parts of the old world, we look at those which are in an advanced stage of improvement, we still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised, to furnish new pretenses for revenues and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without tribute." --Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, 1791
#36. To: SonOfLiberty (#26)
"She's got a lot of hurdles to clear to be acceptable IMO...... Here's to the future and the hope that she does actually 'convert'. That would be something."
#37. To: SonOfLiberty (#32)
Who knows what her game is? I'm not saying that she's doing at the moment. But it is a good sign to hear her at least mouthing coherent libertarian ideas right now. Tomorrow, five years from now, who knows, maybe she goes insane and back to her full on statist position.
#38. To: Jethro Tull (#34)
Show me your friends, and I'll tell you who you are.
#39. To: Big Meanie (#36)
I don't know what that means coming from you. The last I remember, you were lobbying and making excuses for the invading Mexicans too.
#40. To: mininggold (#37)
#41. To: christine (#33)
i have raised eyebrows.
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