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Title: Positioning herself as a libertarian?
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URL Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/24/us/politics/24palin.html?_r=1
Published: Sep 23, 2009
Author: Mark McDonald
Post Date: 2009-09-23 11:13:13 by christine
Keywords: None
Views: 558
Comments: 63
HONG KONG — Sarah Palin, in what was billed as her first speech overseas, spoke on Wednesday to Asian bankers, investors and fund managers. A number of people who heard the speech in a packed hotel ballroom, which was closed to the media, said Mrs. Palin spoke from notes for 90 minutes and that she was articulate, well-prepared and even compelling. “The speech was wide-ranging, very balanced, and she beat all expectations,” said Doug A. Coulter, head of private equity in the Asia-Pacific region for LGT Capital Partners. “She didn’t sound at all like a far-right-wing conservative. She seemed to be positioning herself as a libertarian or a small-c conservative,” he said, adding that she mentioned both Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher. “She brought up both those names.” Mrs. Palin said she was speaking as “someone from Main Street U.S.A.,” and she touched on her concerns about oversized federal bailouts and the unsustainable American government deficit. She did not repeat her attack from last month that the Obama administration’s health care proposals would create a “death panel” that would allow federal bureaucrats to decide who is “worthy of health care.” Cameron Sinclair, another speaker at the event, said Mrs. Palin emphasized the need for a grassroots rebirth of the Republican Party driven by party leaders outside Washington. A number of attendees thought Mrs. Palin, the former vice presidential candidate, was using the speech to begin to broaden her foreign policy credentials before making a run for the presidency in 2012. “She’s definitely a serious future presidential candidate, and I understand why she plays so well in middle America,” said Mr. Coulter, a Canadian. Mrs. Palin was faulted during the campaign last year for her lack of foreign policy experience and expertise. As the governor of Alaska, she said in her own defense, she had a unique insight because “you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska” — a remark that was widely lampooned. Accompanying Mrs. Palin to Hong Kong was Randy Scheunemann, the former foreign policy adviser to John McCain, who lost the 2008 election to President Obama. Mrs. Palin did not take questions from the media after the speech, and there was a high degree of security and secrecy around the event. Only invited guests and a handful of employees from CLSA, the brokerage house that sponsored the event, were allowed inside the ballroom. A CLSA spokeswoman declined to confirm a rumor that Mrs. Palin was paid $300,000 for her Hong Kong appearance. When she resigned as governor in July, Mrs. Palin cited numerous reasons for stepping down, including more than $500,000 in legal fees that she and her husband, Todd, incurred because of 15 ethics complaints filed against her during her two and a half years in office. Mr. Coulter said CLSA has a history of inviting keynote speakers who are “newsworthy and potentially controversial.” Other previous speakers at the conference have included Al Gore, Alan Greenspan, Bono and Archbishop Desmond Tutu. Mrs. Palin’s speech took place at the Grand Hyatt on the Victoria Harbor waterfront and amid the soaring towers of corporate giants like AIG, HSBC and the Bank of China. Some attendees saw Hong Kong as an auspicious place for her first major international appearance. Melvin Goodé, a regional marketing consultant, thought Mrs. Palin chose Hong Kong because, he said, it was “a place where things happen and where freedom can be expanded upon.” “It’s not Beijing or Shanghai,” said Mr. Goodé . “She also mentioned Tibet, Burma and North Korea in the same breath as places where China should be more sensitive and careful about how people are treated. She said it on a human-rights level.” Mr. Goodé, an African-American who said he did some campaign polling for President Obama, said Mrs. Palin mentioned President Obama three times on Wednesday. “And there was nothing derogatory in it, no sleight of hand, and believe me, I was listening for that,” he said, adding that Mrs. Palin referred to Mr. Obama as “our president,” with the emphasis on “our.” Mr. Goodé, a New Yorker who said he would never vote for Mrs. Palin, said she acquitted herself well. “They really prepared her well,” he said. “She was articulate and she held her own. I give her credit. They’ve tried to categorize her as not being bright. She’s bright.”
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#23. To: Prefrontal Vortex (#22)
But they were small, in retrospect, which is why he didn't advise rebellion. Not at all. But I no longer call myself a libertarian. That's your choice. Me, I'm not going to be mad because we're gaining traction on our ideas without the ideas having to be altered. Who knows what the future brings, but I won't sit by and let others determine it for me, and mutter about those who try. Which is my choice.
MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.
Yes, it is.
When a whole society keeps saying "It's not about race," the person who BELIEVES that will be seen as an idiot. Even by children. Even by ILLITERATE children.
I can see how that would be good for the Palin supporters, but what's in it for the "Paulites"? 1. She wants a "Path to Citizenship" for 30 million illegal aliens. 2. She's an Israelfirster. 3. Palin's own husband said that she and John McCain are so alike "it's scary."
She's got a lot of hurdles to clear to be acceptable IMO. Let's see if she's up to it. Right now, for the reasons you enumerate, the jury is still out. Here's to the future and the hope that she does actually "convert". That would be something.
MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.
Exactly. Well said! If we don't examine every belief, both conscious and (much more difficult) unconscious, how can we purge our minds of bilge and mind-control memes, unconsciously absorbed in childhood or semi-consciously accepted in what passes for adulthood in the u.s.? :) How can we think clearly with rocks in our head?
Libertarians and small government paleo-conservatives have gotten so used to being the losing underdog that it "took" as a meme in our heads. It needs to be rooted out and stomped.
MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.
Why don't we just start with someone who doesn't have all those hurdles to overcome? Also her self-serving erratic behaviors to me leaves a lot to be desired.
And who would you suggest? She's right in the spotlight. She's followed day and night by the media. If she does a public transformation from a statist into a libertarian for all to see, that would serve a huge service to the pro-liberty side of the nation. Personally, I've always wondered why Clint Eastwood never spoke up and did something more substantial. Drew Carey seems more content pseudo-living in Vegas with strippers to care to make a stand any more. Penn & Teller are almost unknown these days (except on Showtime, or in Vegas). Ron Paul has been marginalized effectively, though Beck is helping him a lot now. Kurt Russell tries, but he's fading fast. I could go on with the libertarian celebs, all of who are content to sit back and remain mostly silent. That leaves who? Somebody unknown, sure, but my neighbor switching from statist to libertarian isn't going to make 100 million people sit up and take notice of pro-liberty ideas and examine them seriously. Palin does it, and it will. Just speculation of course, but it seems to be the case for others who are starting to warm up to libertarianism in the national spotlight. I like watching earnest changes of mind towards liberty. I'm not saying she's having that right now because she's not, and it may all be a game or ploy, dunno. If it becomes a change of mind however, I'm not going to sneer at her. We need as many high profile people as we can get.
MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.
If she ever had that tendency she should have stayed as far away from McCain as possible. She's just an opportunist and so far her political and now private sector behaviors backs that up.
I've had this debate already (not with you). If she has a change of mind in the future, in earnest, that implies that she did not hold the position in the past. Am I the only one who believes in free will and the ability of the individual to have a real change of heart? Who knows what her game is? I'm not saying that she's doing at the moment. But it is a good sign to hear her at least mouthing coherent libertarian ideas right now. Tomorrow, five years from now, who knows, maybe she goes insane and back to her full on statist position.
MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.
Mrs. Palin did not take questions from the media after the speech, and there was a high degree of security and secrecy around the event. i have raised eyebrows.
Show me your friends, and I'll tell you who you are. This guy is poison.
Me too.
I don't know what that means coming from you. The last I remember, you were lobbying and making excuses for the invading Mexicans too.
That's the problem .....she's playing the part of Everywoman. There has to be at least one other person that would make a good candidate, or else the party is not doing it's homework and deserves to die.
I'm my immediate family and a few Puerto Ricans. "Friend" is another abused word that has lost a lot of meaning. One thing to remember about women is they can be practical to a degree that most men would find astonishing. At least she's not a coal-burner. It's possible she knows she's being used, and is using in return, but that doesn't usually work out very well where the tribe is concerned.
When a whole society keeps saying "It's not about race," the person who BELIEVES that will be seen as an idiot. Even by children. Even by ILLITERATE children.
Who...what? I'm not SonOfLiberty on FreeRepublic, fwiw. If you weren't referencing that, then I have no clue what you're talking about.
MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.
Or, maybe she isn't playing a part. Being skeptical is healthy. Don't let it turn into crass cynicism however. Time will tell. I'm always willing to wait, and watch before I cast judgment.
MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.
Why??? If you recall many of us wondered..WHO...made the choice and ...WHY... as soon as Palin was brought out. It was not by lottery nor by chance, nor was it an in and lose, see you later deal. Re read the squib I sent you yesterday.
If it were not for cynics, you would have been born wearing irons.
Untrue. Cynicism can be and often is a reason blocker. Skepticism on the other hand is healthy. People confuse that with actual cynicism. Cynicism is jaded, and believes nothing good can ever happen. It is pessimism writ large, combined with a roll of the eyes. I'll take a skeptic any day of the week.
MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.
Untrue???? You have a direct line to God or someone that told you so, or is that just an opinion? IF it is an opinion, it is just as worthless as mine or as valuable as mine. So there. A terminal Cynic is just as sick as a terminal optimist. I prefer to be a realist...REALIST...WITH A DASH OF CYNICISM WHEN IT COMES TO POLITICS, GOVERNMENT, MILITARY...anyone that has power over me. So there.
Yes, untrue. I prefer to be a realist with a dash of skepticism. It keeps me from glancing over good things because I'm so jaded and sure that nothing good can happen. So there. :)
MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.
I don't know anything about the SonOfLiberty on FreeRepublic, and I'm not talking about the sonofliberty2 on LibertyPost. I assumed you were the same SonOfLiberty that I was communicating with on this post. 1000 apologies If it isn't you.
Ha... A skeptic is one that has...to be shown on every nit picking bit of information that comes his way... BAR NONE, TELL HIM IT IS NOON AND HE WANTS PROOF FROM TEN SOURCES...that is an irritant to society called a skeptic. Now for a cynic, he DOES NOT QUESTION...what Son told him, if it sounds reasonable, comes from Son, buys it and moves on. However if what Son postulates needs research and a wry eye, then the Cynic comes to the fore...ESPECIALLY IN THE WORLD MATTERS OF POWER AND CONTROL OF ME BY OTHERS... A skeptic is born that way, never changes, a constant nit picker on everything. A true cynic becomes his way because of hard lessons learned from the experience of life. Not just anyone is cut out to be a learned cynic, anyone can be a run of the mill skeptic, about the time of day, day of the week, wrong hair style, see what I mean???? So there.
Hmmm. Fired by John McCain, lobbyist for Republic of Georgia. I'm guessing he will be Sarah Palin's "Rahm Emanuel/David Axelrod"?? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rand y_Scheunemann While the foreign affairs advisor to Republican presidential candidate John McCain, Scheunemann was also a registered foreign agent (lobbyist) for the Republic of Georgia.[6] [7] On April 17, 2008, McCain spoke on the phone with Georgia President Mikheil Saakashvili about the situation in South Ossetia and Abkhazia, two troubled provinces that are considered part of Georgia but have been de facto independent since 1990. That same day, McCain issued a public statement condemning Russia and expressing strong support for the Georgian position. Also on that same day, Georgia signed a new, $200,000 lobbying contract with Scheunemann's firm, Orion Strategies. Scheunemann remained with Orion Strategies until May 15, when the McCain campaign imposed an anti-lobbyist policy and he was required to separate himself from the company.[8] In mid-July 2008, The Sunday Times linked Scheunemann to Stephen Payne, a lobbyist covertly filmed as he discussed a lobbying contract and offered to arrange meetings with Vice President Dick Cheney, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, and others, and recommended donations to the George W. Bush Presidential Library. Payne said Scheunemann had been "working with me on my payroll for five of the last eight years." [9] A day after the election, a CNN article claimed that Scheunemann had been fired by the McCain campaign a week earlier for "trashing" campaign staff and "positioning himself with Palin at the expense of John McCain's campaign message." [10] A later article, however, stated that Scheunemann had not been fired, but that many of McCain's top staff wanted him fired and removed his access to his campaign email and Blackberry.[11]
_________________________________________________________________________ i read and re read. understood. i was hoping that Palin was separating herself from that ilk. she's not.
yes. that's what i infer.
What would be something is if you would take a course in politics 101. Name some of the candidates who have" converted" for the average citizen. Don't keep us waiting too long or we'll take back the gold star and dropping your grade to a d-. She is what she is. The sooner you get that the better off you will be. I bet if dubya could run for a third term, you'd vote for him. Maybe it is you who needs to "convert".
It appears more and more each day that she is being owned and operated. There was always the chance that someone picked her out of the flock for a good reason, that is appearing less likely.. Somewhat like baseball, the owners and managers always keep a relief pitcher in reserve. Shame. On the world stage now, (China) no hint of self determination such as third party.
She's knocked too many hurdles over to place in any race, IMO, even if she does "convert" which is really not likely to happen. Heck, if she doesn't know where she stands at this stage in life, she isn't going to garner too much support from any group beyond the Evangelical Christians and adament Israeli Firsters.
It appeared that way since she first hitched her wagon to Juan McAmnesty.
Americans (non party) have no voice. Paul, Palin have fallen by the wayside Traficant??? Came out swinging BUT not much since. There must be an American out there somewhere to speak for us.
Jesse Ventura could, were he not enjoying life in MX so much of the time. Judge Napolitano could, were he not making so much jack at Fox. You could, but nobody knows who the hell you are.
There was a time years ago that if you asked about me in the county, a few would hug and kiss you, the large majority would stone you out of town. I had a simple message, if you are in office you need to leave NOW and find an honest job. If you want my help to gain office, dont plan on making it a career. If you are family or friend, dont make no matter, seek an honest profession, now. In 40 years found one honest man with no baggage. (Booze, drugs, money, sex)
I had a simple message, if you are in office you need to leave NOW and find an honest job. If you want my help to gain office, dont plan on making it a career. If you are family or friend, dont make no matter, seek an honest profession, now. In 40 years found one honest man with no baggage. (Booze, drugs, money, sex) Sad, but true, Cyni. As I've said, anyone who wants to be a pol, probably shouldn't be. It's the dirtiest game on earth, and often, the most deadly. I weep for the cesspool that we've become.
We're all what we are. We're born into a way of thinking and never diverge. According to your way of thinking. All hail determinism. I didn't vote for that east coast Aristocrat (dubya) the first two times. Why would I the third? Stop being so soviet. Does nobody here understand Americanism?
MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.
I see nothing there that was advocating removing a border, or whatever it is that you fear. I do see an acceptance of people who WORK for a living. I would STILL rather have 10 honest working men, of any nationality, than 100 pure lilly white socialist union thugs. Just me I suppose. If you've carried a grudge this long, I'm not sure that I can convince you of anything one way or the other, about anything.
MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.
Believe as you will, it's clearly a matter of faith for you. Cheers.
MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.
Faith???? Is fact. Faith is for skeptics and heretics.
skepz1;tiz1;cism 34;34;/Èsk[ptYÌsjzYm/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [skep-tuh-siz-uhm] Show IPA –noun Origin: Synonyms: Apparently, skepticism is not the domain of faith. If you notice, it's the antonym. That means opposite. Are we even using the same language at this point?
MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.
He did not minimize them. He did not think them small. But he was also neither despairing, nor did he yet advise rebellion again.
#24. To: SonOfLiberty (#23)
That's your choice.
#25. To: irishthatcherite (#4)
"Imagine if Palinites and Paulites could put their differences aside?"
#26. To: Big Meanie (#25)
#27. To: SonOfLiberty (#15)
(Edited)
Why those on "our" side feel the constant need to surrender before firing the first shot, or view every success as somehow tainted and unworthy of admiration, I just do not know. We've got to get over this self loathing that the statists have bred into us over the last few decades.
Anger? as a first reaction to get your a$$ moving, once you see through the Media Matrix and set yourself free from your lifelong mind control collar. Sustainable? not enough to screen your intention to be free from the Talosians, who can’t read primitive emotions but know what you watch on cable/sat, read on the Internet and eat. Our ultimate weapon is laughter and amused detachment at the folly of the would-be emperors. Fear mongers HATE it when that card doesn’t work. The humiliation of being seen as merely a naked ape is THEIR big fear. Laugh the bastards off the stage! Tell your friends that we can build a real civilization from the ashes of the totalitarian game!
#28. To: HighLairEon (#27)
#29. To: SonOfLiberty (#26)
She's got a lot of hurdles to clear to be acceptable IMO. Let's see if she's up to it. Right now, for the reasons you enumerate, the jury is still out.
#30. To: mininggold (#29)
#31. To: SonOfLiberty (#30)
like watching earnest changes of mind towards liberty. I'm not saying she's having that right now because she's not, and it may all be a game or ploy, dunno. If it becomes a change of mind however, I'm not going to sneer at her. We need as many high profile people as we can get.
#32. To: mininggold (#31)
(Edited)
#33. To: Prefrontal Vortex, all (#10)
Accompanying Mrs. Palin to Hong Kong was Randy Scheunemann, the former foreign policy adviser to John McCain, who lost the 2008 election to President Obama.
#34. To: Prefrontal Vortex (#10)
Scheunemann
#35. To: christine (#33)
i have raised eyebrows.
"If, from the more wretched parts of the old world, we look at those which are in an advanced stage of improvement, we still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised, to furnish new pretenses for revenues and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without tribute." --Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, 1791
#36. To: SonOfLiberty (#26)
"She's got a lot of hurdles to clear to be acceptable IMO...... Here's to the future and the hope that she does actually 'convert'. That would be something."
#37. To: SonOfLiberty (#32)
Who knows what her game is? I'm not saying that she's doing at the moment. But it is a good sign to hear her at least mouthing coherent libertarian ideas right now. Tomorrow, five years from now, who knows, maybe she goes insane and back to her full on statist position.
#38. To: Jethro Tull (#34)
Show me your friends, and I'll tell you who you are.
#39. To: Big Meanie (#36)
I don't know what that means coming from you. The last I remember, you were lobbying and making excuses for the invading Mexicans too.
#40. To: mininggold (#37)
#41. To: christine (#33)
i have raised eyebrows.
#42. To: SonOfLiberty (#40)
Being skeptical is healthy. Don't let it turn into crass cynicism however.
#43. To: Cynicom (#42)
#44. To: SonOfLiberty (#43)
Untrue.
#45. To: Cynicom (#44)
#46. To: SonOfLiberty (#39)
#47. To: SonOfLiberty (#45)
Untrue.
#48. To: Jethro Tull, christine (#34)
"This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?”
-Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
#49. To: Cynicom (#41)
#50. To: X-15 (#48)
Hmmm. Fired by John McCain, lobbyist for Republic of Georgia. I'm guessing he will be Sarah Palin's "Rahm Emanuel/David Axelrod"??
#51. To: SonOfLiberty (#26)
Here's to the future and the hope that she does actually "convert". That would be something.
#52. To: christine (#49)
i was hoping that Palin was separating herself from that ilk. she's not.
#53. To: SonOfLiberty (#26)
She's got a lot of hurdles to clear to be acceptable IMO
#54. To: Cynicom (#52)
It appears more and more each day that she is being owned and operated
#55. To: abraxas (#54)
#56. To: Cynicom. all (#55)
#57. To: Lod (#56)
(Edited)
nobody knows who the hell you are.
#58. To: Cynicom. all (#57)
There was a time years ago that if you asked about me in the county, a few would hug and kiss you, the large majority would stone you out of town.
#59. To: LACUMO (#51)
#60. To: Big Meanie (#46)
#61. To: Cynicom (#47)
#62. To: SonOfLiberty (#61)
Believe as you will, it's clearly a matter of faith for you. Cheers.
#63. To: Cynicom (#62)
Faith is for skeptics and heretics.
1. skeptical attitude or temper; doubt.
2. doubt or unbelief with regard to a religion, esp. Christianity.
3. (initial capital letter) the doctrines or opinions of philosophical Skeptics; universal doubt.
Also, scepticism.
1640–50; < NL scepticismus, equiv. to L sceptic(us) skeptic + -ismus -ism
1. questioning, probing, testing. 2. disbelief, atheism, agnosticism.
Antonyms:
2. faith.
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