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Science/Tech
See other Science/Tech Articles

Title: NASA Data: Greenland, Antarctic Ice Melt Worsening
Source: Associated Press
URL Source: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/artic ... /09/23/national/w100100D80.DTL
Published: Sep 23, 2009
Author: Associated Press
Post Date: 2009-09-23 14:10:34 by Brian S
Keywords: None
Views: 595
Comments: 33

(09-23) 10:01 PDT WASHINGTON, (AP) --

New satellite information shows that ice sheets in Greenland and western Antarctica continue to shrink faster than scientists thought and in some places are already in runaway melt mode.

British scientists for the first time calculated changes in the height of the vulnerable but massive ice sheets and found them especially worse at their edges. That's where warmer water eats away from below. In some parts of Antarctica, ice sheets have been losing 30 feet a year in thickness since 2003, according to a paper published online Thursday in the journal Nature.

Some of those areas are about a mile thick, so they've still got plenty of ice to burn through. But the drop in thickness is speeding up. In parts of Antarctica, the yearly rate of thinning from 2003 to 2007 is 50 percent higher than it was from 1995 to 2003.

These new measurements, based on 50 million laser readings from a NASA satellite, confirm what some of the more pessimistic scientists thought: The melting along the crucial edges of the two major ice sheets is accelerating and is in a self-feeding loop. The more the ice melts, the more water surrounds and eats away at the remaining ice.

"To some extent it's a runaway effect. The question is how far will it run?" said the study's lead author, Hamish Pritchard of the British Antarctic Survey. "It's more widespread than we previously thought."

The study doesn't answer the crucial question of how much this worsening melt will add to projections of sea level rise from man-made global warming. Some scientists have previously estimated that steady melting of the two ice sheets will add about 3 feet, maybe more, to sea levels by the end of the century. But the ice sheets are so big it would probably take hundreds of years for them to completely disappear.

As scientists watch ice shelves retreat or just plain collapse, some thought the problem could slow or be temporary. The latest measurements eliminate "the most optimistic view," said Penn State University professor Richard Alley, who wasn't part of the study.

The research found that 81 of the 111 Greenland glaciers surveyed are thinning at an accelerating, self-feeding pace.

The key problem is not heat in the air, but the water near the ice sheets, Pritchard said. The water is not just warmer but its circulation is also adding to the melt.

"It is alarming," said Jason Box of Ohio State University, who also wasn't part of the study.

Worsening data, including this report, keep proving "that we're underestimating" how sensitive the ice sheets are to changes, he said.

___

On the Net

Nature: www.nature.com/

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 16.

#4. To: Brian S, *Agriculture-Environment* (#0)

New satellite information shows that ice sheets in Greenland and western Antarctica continue to shrink faster than scientists thought and in some places are already in runaway melt mode.

Not according to the science I have seen. Arctic, Antarctic and Greenland ice sheets have been increasing.

farmfriend  posted on  2009-09-23   14:45:38 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: farmfriend (#4)

Not according to the science I have seen.

Post a link.

FormerLurker  posted on  2009-09-23   15:38:23 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: FormerLurker, ghostdogtxn (#13)

It must be noted that I tried to use pro AGW sites, aside from one, so that you could not question the source as you are known to do.

Data of Sea Ice Extent

Arctic sea ice reaches annual minimum extent

Conditions in context

This year, the minimum extent did not fall as low as the minimums of the last two years, because temperatures through the summer were relatively cooler. The Chukchi and Beaufort seas were especially cool compared to 2007. Winds also tended to disperse the ice pack over a larger region.

They continue to say that the trend is towards melting but it must be noted that their comparison period contains the two highest solar activity cycles in 1000 years. This activity has dropped and now the ice is increasing. No, two years doesn't make a trend yet but correlation with the solar cycle is higher than the correlation with CO2. Also the last two years of major melting had two problems, a satellite glitch that measured ice as open water and a change in wind that blue ice out of the arctic circle into the Atlantic.

Increasing Antarctic Sea Ice Extent Linked To Ozone Hole

Satellite images show that since the 1970s the extent of Antarctic sea ice has increased at a rate of 100,000 square kilometres a decade.

While they attributed the increase to the ozone hole, it must be noted that they do show an increase.

October 2008 Possibly Set for Record Sea Ice Extent Increase Rate

This is my friend Maurizio's blog but he has great facts all garnered from science sources and great links.

Increasing Antarctic Sea Ice Extent Linked to the Ozone Hole

April 21, 2009

Increased growth in Antarctic sea ice during the past 30 years is a result of changing weather patterns caused by the ozone hole according to new research published this week (Thurs 23 April 2009).

That's a NASA site, I'm sure you have no problem with them as a source.

ERS altimeter survey shows growth of Greenland Ice Sheet interior

Researchers have utilised more than a decade's worth of data from radar altimeters on ESA's ERS satellites to produce the most detailed picture yet of thickness changes in the Greenland Ice Sheet.

A Norwegian-led team used the ERS data to measure elevation changes in the Greenland Ice Sheet from 1992 to 2003, finding recent growth in the interior sections estimated at around six centimetres per year during the study period. The research is due to be published by Science Magazine in November, having been published in the online Science Express on 20 October.

The Greenland Ice

A third relevant study is a recent paper in the Journal of Glaciology by Zwally et al. (2005) on the ice mass changes on Greenland and Antarctica. They use the same satellite obsevations (ERS 1 and 2) as Johanessen et al. and again find that the Greenland ice sheet is thinning at the margins (-42 ± 2 Gt/year = -46 ± 2 km3/year below the equilibrium-line altitude – ELA), but growing in the inland (+53 ± 2 Gt/year = 58 ± 2 km3/year). The mass estimates have been converted to volume estimates here, assuming the density of ice is 0.917 g/cm3 at 0°C, so that the mass of one Gt of ice is roughly equivalent to 1.1km3 ice*. This means that the Greenland ice has an overall mass gain by +11 ± 3 Gt/year (=10 ± 2.7 km3/year) which they estimated implied a -0.03 mm/year SLE over the period 1992-2002.

This is Gavin Schmidt's site and thus ultimately pro AGW. He is a modeler and avid warmer.

And relating to your question about the volcano in Greenland:

EARTH'S HEAT ADDS TO CLIMATE CHANGE TO MELT GREENLAND ICE

COLUMBUS , Ohio -- Scientists have discovered what they think may be another reason why Greenland 's ice is melting: a thin spot in Earth's crust is enabling underground magma to heat the ice.

They have found at least one 33;hotspot33; in the northeast corner of Greenland -- just below a site where an ice stream was recently discovered.

The researchers don't yet know how warm the hotspot is. But if it is warm enough to melt the ice above it even a little, it could be lubricating the base of the ice sheet and enabling the ice to slide more rapidly out to sea.

farmfriend  posted on  2009-09-23   16:49:30 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 16.

#26. To: farmfriend (#16)

Ok, thanks for the links. There is obviously a lot of disinfo being tossed out, and it's obvious that there is some dishonesty and deceipt involved in the "global warming" controversy. I wonder though if some of it is deliberate, just to discredit the possibility that there IS some degree of truth in man's impact on the global climate changing unpredicatably, and for the worse.

FormerLurker  posted on  2009-09-23 20:11:59 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: farmfriend (#16)

Ping. Thanks for posting.

Ncturnal  posted on  2009-09-24 13:36:20 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 16.

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