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Title: NASA Data: Greenland, Antarctic Ice Melt Worsening
Source:
Associated Press
URL Source: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/artic ... /09/23/national/w100100D80.DTL
Published: Sep 23, 2009
Author: Associated Press
Post Date: 2009-09-23 14:10:34 by Brian S
Keywords: None
Views: 351
Comments: 33
(09-23) 10:01 PDT WASHINGTON, (AP) -- New satellite information shows that ice sheets in Greenland and western Antarctica continue to shrink faster than scientists thought and in some places are already in runaway melt mode. British scientists for the first time calculated changes in the height of the vulnerable but massive ice sheets and found them especially worse at their edges. That's where warmer water eats away from below. In some parts of Antarctica, ice sheets have been losing 30 feet a year in thickness since 2003, according to a paper published online Thursday in the journal Nature. Some of those areas are about a mile thick, so they've still got plenty of ice to burn through. But the drop in thickness is speeding up. In parts of Antarctica, the yearly rate of thinning from 2003 to 2007 is 50 percent higher than it was from 1995 to 2003. These new measurements, based on 50 million laser readings from a NASA satellite, confirm what some of the more pessimistic scientists thought: The melting along the crucial edges of the two major ice sheets is accelerating and is in a self-feeding loop. The more the ice melts, the more water surrounds and eats away at the remaining ice. "To some extent it's a runaway effect. The question is how far will it run?" said the study's lead author, Hamish Pritchard of the British Antarctic Survey. "It's more widespread than we previously thought." The study doesn't answer the crucial question of how much this worsening melt will add to projections of sea level rise from man-made global warming. Some scientists have previously estimated that steady melting of the two ice sheets will add about 3 feet, maybe more, to sea levels by the end of the century. But the ice sheets are so big it would probably take hundreds of years for them to completely disappear. As scientists watch ice shelves retreat or just plain collapse, some thought the problem could slow or be temporary. The latest measurements eliminate "the most optimistic view," said Penn State University professor Richard Alley, who wasn't part of the study. The research found that 81 of the 111 Greenland glaciers surveyed are thinning at an accelerating, self-feeding pace. The key problem is not heat in the air, but the water near the ice sheets, Pritchard said. The water is not just warmer but its circulation is also adding to the melt. "It is alarming," said Jason Box of Ohio State University, who also wasn't part of the study. Worsening data, including this report, keep proving "that we're underestimating" how sensitive the ice sheets are to changes, he said. ___ On the Net Nature: www.nature.com/
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#1. To: Brian S (#0)
And yet the planet is cooling and has been for over a decade. I suspect that this is yet another case of misreading data, or "faulty" satellite reports like we saw the last time we supposedly were losing ice large scale, which later turned out to be reported as false and misreported.
MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.
Newly discovered volcanoes located under both, one has even punched through the Antarctic ice sheet. If we could only get those durn things to turn off. You know it's propaganda when it discusses areas literally created by still active vulcanism, and volcanoes aren't mentioned once in the article.
No no no. There's no way that bubbling magma could cause ice to melt. In the same vein, we all know that the sun has no effect on weather. It's man doing it. We need to DO SOMETHING! Everybody PANIC!
MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.
Not according to the science I have seen. Arctic, Antarctic and Greenland ice sheets have been increasing.
But but but.... um.... Racist!
MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.
The ice sheet down in Antarctica that broke up recently is in a horseshoe shaped bay. That glacier can't calve the way they are supposed to. Pressure from behind causes it to shatter like glass, see the satellite photos, and then the pieces float off. It happens all the time and has nothing to do with AGW. Or so I'm told by me glaciologist friends.
LOL
It punched through over a mile worth of ice too and didn't spill a drop! LOL
Obummer today on this very subject: On the warming planet, Obama said "the danger posed by climate change cannot be denied — and our responsibility to meet it must not be deferred." And here is the peace candidate today: "All of us must decide whether we are serious about peace, or whether we only lend it lip-service," Obama said. Meanwhile in an alternate reality there is absolutely no eidence CO2 causes temperature changes on planet Earth, and military industrial complex puppeted on by Obummer continues to murder, steal and lie around the globe. source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090923/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_obama;_ylt=AgCGI0Y45.7JVcN CYegDxFSs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTJtZzAydmQ5BGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMDkwOTIzL3VzX29iYW1hBGNwb3MDM QRwb3MDMgRwdANob21lX2Nva2UEc2VjA3luX3RvcF9zdG9yeQRzbGsDb2JhbWF0b3dvcmxk
How can it be a military industrial complex with everything outsourced?
When a whole society keeps saying "It's not about race," the person who BELIEVES that will be seen as an idiot. Even by children. Even by ILLITERATE children.
First off, Greenland is in the North Atlantic, not Antarctica. Secondly, there are no active volcanoes in Greenland, unless you can find some recent information, the last volcanoes in Greenland erupted 10,000 years ago or so... From Steve Mattox, University of North Dakota Again, where is the data on any active volcanoes in Greenland?
Post a link.
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
It must be noted that I tried to use pro AGW sites, aside from one, so that you could not question the source as you are known to do. Arctic sea ice reaches annual minimum extent This year, the minimum extent did not fall as low as the minimums of the last two years, because temperatures through the summer were relatively cooler. The Chukchi and Beaufort seas were especially cool compared to 2007. Winds also tended to disperse the ice pack over a larger region. They continue to say that the trend is towards melting but it must be noted that their comparison period contains the two highest solar activity cycles in 1000 years. This activity has dropped and now the ice is increasing. No, two years doesn't make a trend yet but correlation with the solar cycle is higher than the correlation with CO2. Also the last two years of major melting had two problems, a satellite glitch that measured ice as open water and a change in wind that blue ice out of the arctic circle into the Atlantic. Increasing Antarctic Sea Ice Extent Linked To Ozone Hole While they attributed the increase to the ozone hole, it must be noted that they do show an increase. October 2008 Possibly Set for Record Sea Ice Extent Increase Rate This is my friend Maurizio's blog but he has great facts all garnered from science sources and great links. Increasing Antarctic Sea Ice Extent Linked to the Ozone Hole Increased growth in Antarctic sea ice during the past 30 years is a result of changing weather patterns caused by the ozone hole according to new research published this week (Thurs 23 April 2009). That's a NASA site, I'm sure you have no problem with them as a source. ERS altimeter survey shows growth of Greenland Ice Sheet interior A Norwegian-led team used the ERS data to measure elevation changes in the Greenland Ice Sheet from 1992 to 2003, finding recent growth in the interior sections estimated at around six centimetres per year during the study period. The research is due to be published by Science Magazine in November, having been published in the online Science Express on 20 October. This is Gavin Schmidt's site and thus ultimately pro AGW. He is a modeler and avid warmer. And relating to your question about the volcano in Greenland: EARTH'S HEAT ADDS TO CLIMATE CHANGE TO MELT GREENLAND ICE They have found at least one 33;hotspot33; in the northeast corner of Greenland -- just below a site where an ice stream was recently discovered. The researchers don't yet know how warm the hotspot is. But if it is warm enough to melt the ice above it even a little, it could be lubricating the base of the ice sheet and enabling the ice to slide more rapidly out to sea. Heat From Earth's Magma Contributing To Melting Of Greenland Ice
#2. To: Brian S (#0)
(Edited)
#3. To: mininggold (#2)
#4. To: Brian S, *Agriculture-Environment* (#0)
New satellite information shows that ice sheets in Greenland and western Antarctica continue to shrink faster than scientists thought and in some places are already in runaway melt mode.
"If, from the more wretched parts of the old world, we look at those which are in an advanced stage of improvement, we still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised, to furnish new pretenses for revenues and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without tribute." --Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, 1791
#5. To: farmfriend (#4)
Not according to the science I have seen. Arctic, Antarctic and Greenland ice sheets have been increasing.
#6. To: mininggold, Brian S, SonOfLiberty (#2)
"If, from the more wretched parts of the old world, we look at those which are in an advanced stage of improvement, we still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised, to furnish new pretenses for revenues and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without tribute." --Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, 1791
#7. To: SonOfLiberty (#5)
"If, from the more wretched parts of the old world, we look at those which are in an advanced stage of improvement, we still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised, to furnish new pretenses for revenues and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without tribute." --Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, 1791
#8. To: SonOfLiberty (#3)
There's no way that bubbling magma could cause ice to melt. In the same vein, we all know that the sun has no effect on weather.
#9. To: SonOfLiberty, farmfriend (#5)
Not according to the science I have seen. Arctic, Antarctic and Greenland ice sheets have been increasing.
#10. To: Lysander_Spooner (#9)
military industrial complex
#11. To: mininggold (#2)
Newly discovered volcanoes located under both, one has even punched through the Antarctic ice sheet.
There are no active volcanoes in Greenland. There may be older (greater than 10,000 years) volcanoes or volcanic deposits.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#12. To: SonOfLiberty (#3)
There's no way that bubbling magma could cause ice to melt. In the same vein, we all know that the sun has no effect on weather.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#13. To: farmfriend (#4)
Not according to the science I have seen.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#14. To: Brian S (#0)
#15. To: Brian S (#0)
#16. To: FormerLurker, ghostdogtxn (#13)
Conditions in context
Satellite images show that since the 1970s the extent of Antarctic sea ice has increased at a rate of 100,000 square kilometres a decade.
April 21, 2009
Researchers have utilised more than a decade's worth of data from radar altimeters on ESA's ERS satellites to produce the most detailed picture yet of thickness changes in the Greenland Ice Sheet.
A third relevant study is a recent paper in the Journal of Glaciology by Zwally et al. (2005) on the ice mass changes on Greenland and Antarctica. They use the same satellite obsevations (ERS 1 and 2) as Johanessen et al. and again find that the Greenland ice sheet is thinning at the margins (-42 ± 2 Gt/year = -46 ± 2 km3/year below the equilibrium-line altitude – ELA), but growing in the inland (+53 ± 2 Gt/year = 58 ± 2 km3/year). The mass estimates have been converted to volume estimates here, assuming the density of ice is 0.917 g/cm3 at 0°C, so that the mass of one Gt of ice is roughly equivalent to 1.1km3 ice*. This means that the Greenland ice has an overall mass gain by +11 ± 3 Gt/year (=10 ± 2.7 km3/year) which they estimated implied a -0.03 mm/year SLE over the period 1992-2002.
COLUMBUS , Ohio -- Scientists have discovered what they think may be another reason why Greenland 's ice is melting: a thin spot in Earth's crust is enabling underground magma to heat the ice.
"If, from the more wretched parts of the old world, we look at those which are in an advanced stage of improvement, we still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised, to furnish new pretenses for revenues and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without tribute." --Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, 1791
#17. To: FormerLurker (#12)
 | "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." -- C. S. Lewis |
#18. To: Prefrontal Vortex (#10)
Really Inspector Clouseau ?
Everything?
#19. To: farmfriend (#4)
I always love to correct grammatical errors when witnessed or sensed. I pray you don't mind.
Not according to the
science[BULLLSHIT] I have seen. Arctic, Antarctic and Greenland ice sheets have been increasing.
“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”
#20. To: buckeroo (#19)
No I don't mind. When it is accurate. Yours is not.
I always love to correct grammatical errors when witnessed or sensed. I pray you don't mind.
"If, from the more wretched parts of the old world, we look at those which are in an advanced stage of improvement, we still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised, to furnish new pretenses for revenues and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without tribute." --Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, 1791
#21. To: farmfriend (#20)
The Arctic and the Antarctic are melting ..... right before your eyes.
“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”
#22. To: buckeroo (#21)
No, they are not.
The Arctic and the Antarctic are melting ..... right before your eyes.
"If, from the more wretched parts of the old world, we look at those which are in an advanced stage of improvement, we still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised, to furnish new pretenses for revenues and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without tribute." --Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, 1791
#23. To: farmfriend (#22)
Prove it.
“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”
#24. To: buckeroo (#23)
Prove it.
"If, from the more wretched parts of the old world, we look at those which are in an advanced stage of improvement, we still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised, to furnish new pretenses for revenues and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without tribute." --Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, 1791
#25. To: Lysander_Spooner (#18) (Edited)
It's amusing when people simultaneously complain of loss of manufacturing and the military "industrial" complex. Financial "industry"? Sure. Media "industry"? Sure. Those we have in abundance. Financial and media are to industry as social is to science.
When a whole society keeps saying "It's not about race," the person who BELIEVES that will be seen as an idiot. Even by children. Even by ILLITERATE children.
#26. To: farmfriend (#16)
Ok, thanks for the links. There is obviously a lot of disinfo being tossed out, and it's obvious that there is some dishonesty and deceipt involved in the "global warming" controversy. I wonder though if some of it is deliberate, just to discredit the possibility that there IS some degree of truth in man's impact on the global climate changing unpredicatably, and for the worse.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#27. To: sourcery (#17)
Thanks for the info.
Heat From Earth's Magma Contributing To Melting Of Greenland Ice
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#28. To: FormerLurker (#26)
Science aside for the moment, it is clear to me that the global elite are using this issue to push their one world government agenda. And when you follow the money it is even more obvious. Besides cap and trade being linked to Enron, there is an obvious money link most don't look at. The Pew Charitable Trusts Investigate Oct 05, The Kyoto ConspiracyI wonder though if some of it is deliberate, just to discredit the possibility that there IS some degree of truth in man's impact on the global climate changing unpredicatably, and for the worse.
Global Warming Power Nexus
How Enron hyped global warming for profit
"If, from the more wretched parts of the old world, we look at those which are in an advanced stage of improvement, we still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised, to furnish new pretenses for revenues and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without tribute." --Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, 1791
#29. To: farmfriend (#28)
Of course there is money involved, and were there is money there is corruption.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#30. To: FormerLurker (#26)
Just for thought, ask yourself why Gore would take a dive and let Bush be "elected". What has Gore done since the election and why? You also have to consider the facts: 1. CO2 levels are at historic lows despite the recent rise. If these facts are true, and they are, why then all the hype about CO2 and warming trends? Political agenda and control. It is the environmental version of 9/11 plain and simple.
2. We have not even warmed to the level of the Medieval Warm Period or previous warm periods.
3. there is a stronger correlation between solar activity than CO2 levels
"If, from the more wretched parts of the old world, we look at those which are in an advanced stage of improvement, we still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised, to furnish new pretenses for revenues and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without tribute." --Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, 1791
#31. To: FormerLurker (#29)
Always and amen!
and were there is money there is corruption.
"If, from the more wretched parts of the old world, we look at those which are in an advanced stage of improvement, we still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised, to furnish new pretenses for revenues and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without tribute." --Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, 1791
#32. To: farmfriend (#16)
Ping. Thanks for posting.
#33. To: FormerLurker (#11) (Edited)
Secondly, there are no active volcanoes in Greenland, unless you can find some recent information, the last volcanoes in Greenland erupted 10,000 years ago or so... From Steve Mattox, University of North Dakota There are no active volcanoes in Greenland. There may I'm fully aware of the location of the two areas. There is a thin spot in the crust under Greenland being monitored for evidence creating a potential hotspot. In fact Ohio State U has been one of the entities monitoring it. Just remember until a few years ago we had no idea there was a buried volcanic mountain chain in Antarctica.
First off, Greenland is in the North Atlantic, not Antarctica.
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