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Title: Who are the Branch Carbonians?
Source:
WashingtonExaminer.com
URL Source: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/o ... ranch-Carbonians-61251277.html
Published: Sep 24, 2009
Author: Mark Tapscott
Post Date: 2009-09-26 05:24:18 by sourcery
Ping List: *Agriculture-Environment* Subscribe to *Agriculture-Environment*
Keywords: None
Views: 299
Comments: 26
Are radical environmentalists members of a political movement or more like the devotees of a religious cult, one that might dubbed the Branch Carbonians? Truespeak.org's Jim Guirardi suggests the label and offers an illuminating case for the latter in this post from the American Thinker. There is much more to Guirardi's piece, but as a sample, here are his 10 reasons these fanatical devotees qualify as participants in a cult. If these sound somehow familiar, they are based on the criteria elaborated upon in the 2003 book, "Kingdom of the Cults,"by Walter Martin and Ravi Zacharia: 1. Leadership by a self-glorifying, manipulative New Age Prophet -- in this case, former Vice-President Al Gore, though he is rapidly being supplanted by President Barack Obama. 2. Assertion of an apocalyptic threat to all mankind. 3. An absolutist definition of both the threat and the proposed solution(s). 4. Promise of a salvation from this pending apocalypse. 5. Devotion to an inspired text which (arguendo) embodies all the answers -- in this case, Prophet Gore's pseudo-scientific book "Earth in the Balance" and his more recent "An Inconvenient Truth" documentary. 6. A specific list of "truths" (see the Ten Commandments listed below) which must be embraced and proselytized by all Cult members.. 7. An absolute intolerance of any deviation from any of these truths by any Cult member. 8. A strident intolerance of any outside criticism of the Cult's definition of the problem or of its proposed solutions. 9. A "Heaven-on-Earth" vision of the results of the mission's success and/or a "Hell-on-Earth" result if the cultic mission should fail. 10. An inordinate fear (and an outright rejection of the possibility) of being proven wrong in either the apocalyptic vision or the proposed salvation.
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#1. To: sourcery (#0)
Delicious, except for the fact that the Davidians were harmless.
Redneck vs. cop: Redneck. Cop vs. n-word: Cop. n-word vs. white guilter: n-word. Being a lawyer knocks you down a peg, so redneck lawyer vs. cop and n-word lawyer vs. white guilter are toss-ups. White guilter lawyers are the lowest form of life. Environmentalism as practiced by members of the Dirt Worshippers is basically still Materialism i.e., a belief that existence and awareness are solely predicated upon the physical universe - Matter, Energy, Space, and Time. It is deep down really quite shallow as there is more to existence than their narrow, almost maniacal (at the very least neurotic) focus upon plants and animals. Not that they are not important but that they are not the totality of existence. As well seems to be the anti-human thread, again neurotic to psychotic, which fixates upon ALL humans as the cause rather than SOME humans who disregard all non-material considerations. The belief system of the environuts is so confused, and disorganized as to nearly defy analysis beyond noting that they are NUTS.
"An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you know and what you don't. ~ Anatole France
As well seems to be the anti-human thread, again neurotic to psychotic, which fixates upon ALL humans as the cause rather than SOME humans who disregard all non-material considerations. The belief system of the environuts is so confused, and disorganized as to nearly defy analysis beyond noting that they are NUTS. Admittedly, you de-humanize those that actually care about the planet. You have confused modern international corporate, industrial and manufacturing capability and production techniques/methods with stripping the forests around the world so you can feel all cozy roasting chestnuts over an open fire during your Christmas retreat. Meanwhile, the CO2 concentrations in the open aire are increasing.
“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”
Those pushing for sustainable this and sustainable that are the very ones stripping the forests. They use environmental regulations at home to shut down competition with their over seas investments. Forests over seas have been cut down for production of biofuels. The worst thing for the environment is environmentalism.
Oh. Arguing for and about life (as we know it) is some ridiculous measure of "sustenance." But, "NO" .. I must receive publick humiliation as though I know nothing at all.
“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”
If you feel that I have humiliated in some way, I apologize. That is never my intent.
No. I see it all now. You have joined the capitalist PIGS to further rant against fine people such as myself. Woe is me.
“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”
LOL yep that's it. you have outed me.
So what? The concentrations have been over 1500 in the past and when it was, the planet was a riot of diversity. While the issue is posed as one of "planetary survival" what it really is is one of control over other humans couched in terms of what proponents want to see "preserved". Even during quiescent times the average lifespan of a species is about 5-7 million years. Many times in the past the slate has been wiped 80+% clean. What was the result of the "wipings"? Massive adaptive radiation and arising of new species. We may alter the planet, and it's within our power to guide that in a direction amenable to existing life and to our esthetic desires but only within a tiny moment in geologic time. Bottom line though, you'd have to reliquify the lithosphere to "exterminate" life on this globe and even then, I wouldn't put money on it's not re-emerging from reservoirs below that given that we've found examples that survive at multiples of atmospheric pressure and beyond waters boiling point. So, from a devils advocate poit of view, what if it's "real" and injects chaos into the human world? While we always individually desire peace and stability, look what it brings in the end to "developed" nations; stagnation, hedonism, desires for statism to preserve the "norm", decay. The world is dynamic, but it's always going to be here. Don't give in to the sweet nothings whispered by those desiring control just to assuage your desires to do "do something"...
Bring on the Depression. Bring it the F*** ON! If digging ditches and eating beans for a few years is what it takes for me to see some worthless sacks of crap bankers and politicians living in sack cloth and being spat upon by my fellow Americans well... where's my shovel?!?!
Amen!
Stop it. I am now under the opinion that modern uncontrolled capitalism unchecked for us puny posters is the way to goe! I say, because of your incredible influence and decisive posts, that we should all enjoy free methane and carbon dioxide. It makes us whole.
“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”
No, I pillory monomaniacs who can't see the forest for the trees. Which is why I insist on calling myself a conservationist NOT an environmentalist. The difference between a conservationist and an envirowhacko is both balance and rationality. Did I make a defense of the greed and equally psychotic views of the the individuals who order the corporations whose actions you rightly oppose? No. If you were to take the time to inform yourself you would find out that the individuals who own the corporations that you rail against are the primary funding source for the environuts via their family foundations. In other words "the fix is in" and has been since the beginning of many of these organizations. Why do you think one of the founding leaders of Greenpeace resigned in disgust over how the organization had been hijacked for another agenda? The CO2 levels of the atmosphere are near historic lows. CO2, in every Paleoclimatologic study made, is a lagging indicator of a global increase in temperature - that is the geologic record shows CO2 levels increasing AFTER a warm up. The levels of CO2 in the atmosphere during the age of the dinoaurs, the Triassic, Jurassic, and Cretaceous, were much higher than they are now and the world did not come to an end. Global average temperatures have, again, been much higher by several degrees average in prior periods. The CO2 hogwash is just that hogwash. As always follow the money. CUI BONO? Who benefits from a "Carbon Tax" (which would be ineffective at cleaning the atmosphere) which can be traded like a security i.e., "Carbon Credits"? Why our friends the Banksters (Rotchild, Rockefucker, et. al., ...)whose family foundations fund the envirowhackos. Gee, funny how that works.
"An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you know and what you don't. ~ Anatole France
I had to dig your charts for reference material as you chose not to disclose your silly data. Here are your references, below: Yet mankind and life as we know it have only existed for 200,000 years. Yeah, you can go back in time as far as you want (say to the creation of the planet (4.5B years) and when the first one-celled DNA protoplasm (3.5B) started to slosh together ... but you are missing the point. The temperature rise and paralleled rise of CO2 concentrations around the globe are startling. It is the rate of change we are discussing within such a short period of time measured in a few hundred years not in hundreds of millions in years. Take a peek: So arguing single celled proto-plasm can thrive in HOT AIRE (as your post is about) hundreds of millions of years is meaningless to mankind and life around us today.
“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”
See my post above. If you note your comment and place it with respect to time it appears a bit naive, don't you think? After all, life as we know it (today) has not existed with that high of CO2 concentrations.
“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”
The oxygen levels were higher too. Does that imply that "life as we know it" would be impossible? I know you are a "true believer" bucky and so contrary data does not compute. When CO2 goes up plants grow at a faster rate, thus their respiration rate increases (plants breathe CO2 and exhale O2, consequently the oxygen level goes up. Thus it is a mutually beneficial combination. I realize that this is a religious issue for you but that does not require me to go to your Church.
"An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you know and what you don't. ~ Anatole France
No. But to regress hundreds of millions of years ago seems a bit prehistoric doesn't it?
“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”
No. But to regress hundreds of millions of years ago seems a bit prehistoric doesn't it? Is history and the climatologic record of no value then? We can look at and see in the record of life on earth how conditions have varied and how life nevertheless persists. It may have to adapt to changing conditions, or in the case of man surmount them, but it nevertheless manages to somehow survive - even in time periods with a much greater CO2 level. Globull Warming, and its mythos, is best viewed as a PsyOp. It does not use or adapt to conflicting data, it does not account for it, and the theories remain inerrant as received "wisdom". Thus it is NOT science - it is a belief system independent of science but with the color of science. It has been packaged, marketed, and sold so as to promote an agenda much different from what it purports to be doing.
"An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you know and what you don't. ~ Anatole France
I have already busted this silly assumption with post #13 of this thread. There has been no records of CO2 concentrations during the last 20,000 years that are as high as today. You are basically arguing for genetic mutations which seems very strange and too general to me for this thread.
“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”
Most definately. and Buck, you didn't bust anything. And correlation is not causation by any stretch. That said temp always follows CO2. Always. And the correlation between sun activity and temp is much better.
OK, we have always enjoyed the great benefits of CO2 concentrations while loving the rising temperatures through out the last 200,000 years. Meanwhile, Original_Intent wants us reduced to DNA/RNA protoplasm ... akin to a cosmic goo because we can adapt and change again.
“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”
Oh he wants no such thing. Personal attacks are unbecoming.
He is obviously arguing Darwin's Thesis concerning the Origin of Species and Descent of Man. Yet, all I am saying is his argument falls on the floor with his own discussion (although I placed it within a pictorial context for viewing pleasure)------ He argues about millions of years ago being some sort of sustained and unequivocal evidence to point out that CO2 was higher at some point (well before any human lifeform) wherein we are seeing a few thousand years of temperature rise simultaneously and tightly coupled with massive human engineering efforts all over the planet. These same efforts are destroying the planet, from the break-ups of the arctic and Antarctic to the complete elimination of entire seas. And you think that we are not impacting the planet? And you think there is some sort of "hope" that Original_Intent claims?
“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”
I think you have swallowed too much kool-aide actually. I told you I could get you on a forum where you could get the science rather than the propaganda we are fed.
I don't know why you post this stuff, bucky. There's nothing in the figure above that exactly makes me quake in fear at whatever mild rise in temps and CO2 we've seen in the last century or so. Time for a paradigm shift, old man.
Your obvious bias runs chills down my backbone.
“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”
The argument was in defiance contesting Original_Intent's silly remarcks. Read the entire thread.
“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”
Branch Carbonians
Open season on them.
#2. To: sourcery (#0)
#3. To: Original_Intent (#2)
Environmentalism as practiced by members of the Dirt Worshippers is basically still Materialism i.e., a belief that existence and awareness are solely predicated upon the physical universe - Matter, Energy, Space, and Time. It is deep down really quite shallow as there is more to existence than their narrow, almost maniacal (at the very least neurotic) focus upon plants and animals. Not that they are not important but that they are not the totality of existence.
#4. To: buckeroo, Original_Intent (#3)
You have confused modern international corporate, industrial and manufacturing capability and production techniques/methods with stripping the forests around the world so you can feel all cozy roasting chestnuts over an open fire during your Christmas retreat.
"If, from the more wretched parts of the old world, we look at those which are in an advanced stage of improvement, we still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised, to furnish new pretenses for revenues and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without tribute." --Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, 1791
#5. To: farmfriend (#4)
(Edited)
#6. To: buckeroo (#5)
"NO" .. I must receive publick humiliation as though I know nothing at all.
"If, from the more wretched parts of the old world, we look at those which are in an advanced stage of improvement, we still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised, to furnish new pretenses for revenues and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without tribute." --Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, 1791
#7. To: farmfriend (#6)
#8. To: buckeroo (#7)
You have joined the capitalist PIGS to further rant against fine people such as myself. Woe is me.
"If, from the more wretched parts of the old world, we look at those which are in an advanced stage of improvement, we still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised, to furnish new pretenses for revenues and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without tribute." --Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, 1791
#9. To: buckeroo (#3)
Meanwhile, the CO2 concentrations in the open aire are increasing.
#10. To: Axenolith (#9)
Don't give in to the sweet nothings whispered by those desiring control just to assuage your desires to do "do something"...
"If, from the more wretched parts of the old world, we look at those which are in an advanced stage of improvement, we still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised, to furnish new pretenses for revenues and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without tribute." --Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, 1791
#11. To: farmfriend (#10)
#12. To: buckeroo, farmfriend. (#3)
Admittedly, you de-humanize those that actually care about the planet.
#13. To: Original_Intent (#12)
(Edited)
The CO2 levels of the atmosphere are near historic lows. CO2, in every Paleoclimatologic study made, is a lagging indicator of a global increase in temperature - that is the geologic record shows CO2 levels increasing AFTER a warm up.
#14. To: Axenolith (#9)
The concentrations have been over 1500 in the past and when it was, the planet was a riot of diversity.
#15. To: buckeroo, Axenolith (#14)
#16. To: Original_Intent (#15)
Does that imply that "life as we know it" would be impossible?
#17. To: buckeroo, farmfriend (#16)
Does that imply that "life as we know it" would be impossible?
#18. To: Original_Intent (#17)
It may have to adapt to changing conditions, or in the case of man surmount them, but it nevertheless manages to somehow survive - even in time periods with a much greater CO2 level.
#19. To: Original_Intent, buckeroo, sourcery. (#17)
is best viewed as a PsyOp. It does not use or adapt to conflicting data, it does not account for it, and the theories remain inerrant as received "wisdom". Thus it is NOT science - it is a belief system independent of science but with the color of science. It has been packaged, marketed, and sold so as to promote an agenda much different from what it purports to be doing.
"If, from the more wretched parts of the old world, we look at those which are in an advanced stage of improvement, we still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised, to furnish new pretenses for revenues and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without tribute." --Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, 1791
#20. To: farmfriend, Original_Intent (#19)
and Buck, you didn't bust anything.
#21. To: buckeroo, Original_Intent (#20)
"If, from the more wretched parts of the old world, we look at those which are in an advanced stage of improvement, we still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised, to furnish new pretenses for revenues and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without tribute." --Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, 1791
#22. To: farmfriend, Original_Intent (#21)
Oh he wants no such thing.
We can look at and see in the record of life on earth how conditions have varied and how life nevertheless persists. It may have to adapt to changing conditions, or in the case of man surmount them, but it nevertheless manages to somehow survive - even in time periods with a much greater CO2 level. -- Original_Intent
Original_Intent's comment was perverse actually .... The CO2 levels of the atmosphere are near historic lows. CO2, in every Paleoclimatologic study made, is a lagging indicator of a global increase in temperature - that is the geologic record shows CO2 levels increasing AFTER a warm up. The levels of CO2 in the atmosphere during the age of the dinoaurs, the Triassic, Jurassic, and Cretaceous, were much higher than they are now and the world did not come to an end. Global average temperatures have, again, been much higher by several degrees average in prior periods. -- Original_Intent
#23. To: buckeroo (#22)
And you think there is some sort of "hope" that Original_Intent claims?
"If, from the more wretched parts of the old world, we look at those which are in an advanced stage of improvement, we still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised, to furnish new pretenses for revenues and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without tribute." --Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, 1791
#24. To: buckeroo (#22)
#25. To: farmfriend (#23)
#26. To: randge (#24)
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