[Home]  [Headlines]  [Latest Articles]  [Latest Comments]  [Post]  [Sign-in]  [Mail]  [Setup]  [Help] 

Status: Not Logged In; Sign In

You Know What Happens Next

Cash Jordan: Half-Built Tower Abandoned… as ICE Deports Entire ‘Migrant Workforce’

Heavy rainfall causes flash flooding Tuesday night, some cars stuck in high water on Chicago's West

Biden Doctor PLEADS THE FIFTH, Refuses To Testify To Congress, Biden Pardons ARE VOID

Joe Rogan says FBI director Kash Patel played him for a fool and maga for fools with the Jeff Epstein files

Elon's AI System "Grok" Went Rogue And Has Been SHUT DOWN in an Emergency!

Earthquake Swarms at One of the MOST DANGEROUS Volcanoes in the USA

Ben Shapiro Declares Epstein Case CLOSED: ‘Facts on the Ground Have Changed’

Iran receives 40 Chinese J10-C Fighter Jets

China’s Railgun Is Now Battle-Ready, Thanks to Nuclear Power

Chinese Hypersonic Advancements! Deadly new missile could decimate entire US fleet in 20 minutes

Iran Confirms Massive Chinese HQ 9 B Missile Deal

Why Is Europe Hitting 114°F And Still Rising?

The INCREDIBLE Impacts of Methylene Blue

The LARGEST Eruptions since the Merapi Disaster in 2010 at Lewotobi Laki Laki in Indonesia

Feds ARREST 11 Leftists For AMBUSH On ICE, 2 Cops Shot, Organized Terror Cell Targeted ICE In Texas

What is quantum computing?

12 Important Questions We Should Be Asking About The Cover Up The Truth About Jeffrey Epstein

TSA quietly scraps security check that every passenger dreads

Iran Receives Emergency Airlift of Chinese Air Defence Systems as Israel Considers New Attacks

Russia reportedly used its new, inexpensive Chernika kamikaze drone in the Ukraine

Iran's President Says the US Pledged Israel Wouldn't Attack During Previous Nuclear Negotiations

Will Japan's Rice Price Shock Lead To Government Collapse And Spark A Global Bond Crisis

Beware The 'Omniwar': Catherine Austin Fitts Fears 'Weaponization Of Everything'

Roger Stone: AG Pam Bondi Must Answer For 14 Terabytes Claim Of Child Torture Videos!

'Hit Us, Please' - America's Left Issues A 'Broken Arrow' Signal To Europe

Cash Jordan Trump Deports ‘Thousands of Migrants’ to Africa… on Purpose

Gunman Ambushes Border Patrol Agents In Texas Amid Anti-ICE Rhetoric From Democrats

Texas Flood

Why America Built A Forest From Canada To Texas


Science/Tech
See other Science/Tech Articles

Title: Researcher: Basic Greenhouse Equations "Totally Wrong"
Source: DailyTech
URL Source: http://www.dailytech.com/Researcher ... Totally+Wrong/article10973.htm
Published: Mar 6, 2008
Author: Michael Asher
Post Date: 2009-09-27 03:50:50 by sourcery
Ping List: *Agriculture-Environment*     Subscribe to *Agriculture-Environment*
Keywords: None
Views: 410
Comments: 19

New derivation of equations governing the greenhouse effect reveals "runaway warming" impossible

Miklós Zágoni isn't just a physicist and environmental researcher. He is also a global warming activist and Hungary's most outspoken supporter of the Kyoto Protocol. Or was.

That was until he learned the details of a new theory of the greenhouse effect, one that not only gave far more accurate climate predictions here on Earth, but Mars too. The theory was developed by another Hungarian scientist, Ferenc Miskolczi, an atmospheric physicist with 30 years of experience and a former researcher with NASA's Langley Research Center.

After studying it, Zágoni stopped calling global warming a crisis, and has instead focused on presenting the new theory to other climatologists. The data fit extremely well. "I fell in love," he stated at the International Climate Change Conference this week.

"Runaway greenhouse theories contradict energy balance equations," Miskolczi states. Just as the theory of relativity sets an upper limit on velocity, his theory sets an upper limit on the greenhouse effect, a limit which prevents it from warming the Earth more than a certain amount.

How did modern researchers make such a mistake? They relied upon equations derived over 80 years ago, equations which left off one term from the final solution.

Miskolczi's story reads like a book. Looking at a series of differential equations for the greenhouse effect, he noticed the solution -- originally done in 1922 by Arthur Milne, but still used by climate researchers today -- ignored boundary conditions by assuming an "infinitely thick" atmosphere. Similar assumptions are common when solving differential equations; they simplify the calculations and often result in a result that still very closely matches reality. But not always.

So Miskolczi re-derived the solution, this time using the proper boundary conditions for an atmosphere that is not infinite. His result included a new term, which acts as a negative feedback to counter the positive forcing. At low levels, the new term means a small difference ... but as greenhouse gases rise, the negative feedback predominates, forcing values back down.

NASA refused to release the results. Miskolczi believes their motivation is simple. "Money", he tells DailyTech. Research that contradicts the view of an impending crisis jeopardizes funding, not only for his own atmosphere-monitoring project, but all climate-change research. Currently, funding for climate research tops $5 billion per year.

Miskolczi resigned in protest, stating in his resignation letter, "Unfortunately my working relationship with my NASA supervisors eroded to a level that I am not able to tolerate. My idea of the freedom of science cannot coexist with the recent NASA practice of handling new climate change related scientific results."

His theory was eventually published in a peer-reviewed scientific journal in his home country of Hungary.

The conclusions are supported by research published in the Journal of Geophysical Research last year from Steven Schwartz of Brookhaven National Labs, who gave statistical evidence that the Earth's response to carbon dioxide was grossly overstated. It also helps to explain why current global climate models continually predict more warming than actually measured.

The equations also answer thorny problems raised by current theory, which doesn't explain why "runaway" greenhouse warming hasn't happened in the Earth's past. The new theory predicts that greenhouse gas increases should result in small, but very rapid temperature spikes, followed by much longer, slower periods of cooling -- exactly what the paleoclimatic record demonstrates.

However, not everyone is convinced. Dr. Stephen Garner, with the NOAA's Geophysical Fluid Dynamics Laboratory (GFDL), says such negative feedback effects are "not very plausible". Reto Ruedy of NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies says greenhouse theory is "200 year old science" and doubts the possibility of dramatic changes to the basic theory.

Miskowlczi has used his theory to model not only Earth, but the Martian atmosphere as well, showing what he claims is an extremely good fit with observational results. For now, the data for Venus is too limited for similar analysis, but Miskolczi hopes it will one day be possible. (2 images)

Subscribe to *Agriculture-Environment*

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  


TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest

Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 4.

#2. To: sourcery (#0)

his theory sets an upper limit on the greenhouse effect, a limit which prevents it from warming the Earth more than a certain amount.

That's what I have been hearing from my climate friends. They had a huge discussion on a column of air I remember. It was over my head so I didn't pay much attention. Besides it was the closest thing that forum gets to a flame war. It would explain the flat line upper temps on that one graph of historic CO2 and Temps. My computer is currently down or I would dig it up. Hopefully my husband will get it fixed today.

farmfriend  posted on  2009-09-27   12:20:50 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: farmfriend (#2)

That's what I have been hearing from my climate friends. They had a huge discussion on a column of air I remember. It was over my head so I didn't pay much attention.

I wonder how the (at least) six northern hemisphere HAARP facilities and the three HAARP like facilities on the equator figure into all of this?

mininggold  posted on  2009-09-27   12:27:40 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: mininggold (#3)

good question. a few of my climate friends would fit in well here but many would not. a few are socialists. sigh.

farmfriend  posted on  2009-09-27   12:29:59 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 4.

#6. To: farmfriend (#4)

“Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.” ~ Winston Churchill

“The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.” ~ Winston Churchil

Original_Intent  posted on  2009-09-27 13:04:08 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: farmfriend (#4)

farmfriend: This is perhaps a naive question, but what do your friends say about the recent climate history of Mars?

Earth has been cooling for the last eight years, according to analysis of satellite data. I've been searching online in vain to get a handle on recent temperature trends on our neighbor planet.

Anyone you know have information on this question, or do you have a link to sources that discuss Martian temperatures on a decadal scale?

randge  posted on  2009-09-27 13:59:46 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 4.

TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest


[Home]  [Headlines]  [Latest Articles]  [Latest Comments]  [Post]  [Sign-in]  [Mail]  [Setup]  [Help]