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Title: Christianity Is Plummeting In America, While The Number Of Non-Believers Is Skyrocketing
Source:
Associated Press
URL Source: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2009 ... ler-christians-americans-gone/
Published: Sep 29, 2009
Author: Bruce Feiler
Post Date: 2009-09-29 15:56:27 by Brian S
Keywords: None
Views: 1665
Comments: 102
A shocking new study of Americans’ religious beliefs shows the beginnings of a major realignment in Americans’ relationship with God. The American Religious Identification Survey (ARIS) reveals that Protestants now represent half of all Americans, down almost 20 percent in the last twenty years. In the coming months, America will become a minority Protestant nation for the first time since the pilgrims. The number of people who claim no religious affiliation, meanwhile, has doubled since 1990 to fifteen percent, its highest point in history. Non-believers now represent the third-highest group of Americans, after Catholics and Baptists. Other headlines: 1) The number of Christians has declined 12% since 1990, and is now 76%, the lowest percentage in American history. 2) The growth of non-believers has come largely from men. Twenty percent of men express no religious affiliation; 12% of women. 3) Young people are fleeing faith. Nearly a quarter of Americans in their 20’s profess no organized religion. 4) But these non-believers are not particularly atheist. That number hasn’t budged and stands at less than 1 percent. (Agnostics are similarly less than 1 percent.) Instead, these individuals have a belief in God but no interest in organized religion, or they believe in a personal God but not in a formal faith tradition. The implications for American society are profound. Americans’ relationship with God, which drove many of the country’s great transformations from the pilgrims to the founding fathers, the Civil War to the civil rights movement, is still intact. Eighty-two percent of Americans believe in God or a higher power. But at the same time, the study offers yet another wake-up call for religious institutions. First, catering to older believers is a recipe for failure; younger Americans are tuning out. Second, Americans are interested in God, but they don’t think existing institutions are helping them draw closer to God. Finally, Americans’ interest in religion has not always been stable. It dipped following the Revolution and again following Civil War. In both cases it rebounded because religious institutions adapted and found new ways of relating to everyday Americans. Today, the rise of disaffection is so powerful that different denominations needs to band together to find a shared language of God that can move beyond the fading divisions of the past and begin moving toward a partnership of different-but-equal traditions. Or risk becoming Europe, where religion is fast becoming an afterthought.
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#1. To: Brian S (#0)
Good. Virtually every Christian sect is either actively complicit in the anti-white program or tacitly consenting.
Redneck vs. cop: Redneck. Cop vs. n-word: Cop. n-word vs. white guilter: n-word. Being a lawyer knocks you down a peg, so redneck lawyer vs. cop and n-word lawyer vs. white guilter are toss-ups. White guilter lawyers are the lowest form of life. Perfectly understandable. When Almighty God is mocked by the teaching of false beliefs not founded on the Bible, people should be aware that this is the result. God is not to be mocked, and the teaching of the so-called trinity, a fiery hell and eternal torment, going to heaven as opposed to the resurrection so clearly shown in the Bible, WILL lead to exactly this result. People will stop believing the lies. As oppsoed to that, the numbers of Jehovah's Witnesses continues to increase, in some areas, dramatically. A very clear message that our work is being blessed.
Daniel 2:44 “And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite;.
....meaing "New World Order" religion, where Christ and Biblical Christianity are sidelined. Hegelian Dialectic at play. "...—— “Jewish survival can only take place within the framework of a progressive and expanding democratic society, which through its institutions and public policies gives expression to the concept of cultural pluralism.” —— ...." HOW THE JEWS ARE DESTROYING AMERICA "...as long as there..remain active enemies of the Christian church, we may hope to become Master of the World...the future Jewish King will never reign in the world before Christianity is overthrown - B'nai B'rith speech http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/luther.htm / http://bible.cc/psalms/83-4.htm
They already tried this. It was called the "Moral Majority" or the "Religious Right." It put Reagan in office and has held sway ever since. This is where the rise of disaffection has come from. The disaffected youth have watched their prospects get worse and worse for about the last 30 years.
“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston
Jews are not the chosen people www.realzionistnews.com/?p=60
...Coinciding with the sh*t-canning of a once proud, strong, and righteous America. As the "religion" of Secular Humanism and moral relativism grows and Christianity declines, we shall indeed become a pathetic Third World "country" of chaos and calamity.
"Good"?? Yeah, that's working out real good thus far, ain't it? Maybe 0bama's "religion" of Muslim Black Separatism hidden beneath the beard of "Christianity" (but only to pods), satanism, and Secular Humanism will return America to its former greatness.
Well...yes and no...(I think.) The numbers of Jehovah's Witnesses continues to increase, in some areas, dramatically. A very clear message that our work is being blessed. Are you a JW? And which "work" is that exactly?
This is a good thing, imo.
An integrationist are ye? Any kind of black separatism is to be encouraged, IMO. Black muslims are still black, and not really a danger to organized whites. return America to its former greatness Dixie shall rise again. Mind you, historical Christianity -- up until the last 50 years or so, 50 years which are not coincidentally a period of pronounced moral decay -- was not indifferent to the fate of the white man.
Redneck vs. cop: Redneck. Cop vs. n-word: Cop. n-word vs. white guilter: n-word. Being a lawyer knocks you down a peg, so redneck lawyer vs. cop and n-word lawyer vs. white guilter are toss-ups. White guilter lawyers are the lowest form of life. You're either lost or dreaming. This "rise in disaffection" has been the result of virulent moral relativism taught via governmental propaganda, cultural hijacking via "entertainment" and Hollywood media, combined with a full frontal assault upon America's Christian foundation by various Leftist, and Communistic organizations who control America's academia and public schools. Also worth noting is the anti-Christian "contribution" and hostility from militant Jewish organizations such as the ACLU and the ADL, and those American Jews who despise and resent Christians for imagined grievances or...just because.
Yeah. A cultural one... But are you claiming 0bama's Church of Hate wasn't exactly how I characterized it? Any kind of black separatism is to be encouraged, IMO. Black muslims are still black, and not really a danger to organized whites. To what end should it be encouraged? Last time I looked, America wasn't Uganda... As to assessing who is dangerous to whom dependent on who is more "organized," the trick is NOT turning America into a frickin' Law of the Jungle - even though that's exactly how it's been scripted out be the "Diversity" Crowd. This insanity must be turned around - quick. Your scenario may still be played out from coast to coast. The shorter the duration, the better obviously. Dixie shall rise again. If it does: A) Neither you and I won't be around to see it B) The living standard will have returned to post Civil War I and guerrilla warfare will go on for decades or the advent of Armeggeddon (whichever comes first.) Oh, goodie!! Mind you, historical Christianity -- up until the last 50 years or so, 50 years which are not coincidentally a period of pronounced moral decay -- was not indifferent to the fate of the white man. I concur...But the decay was planned as per the Communist Manifesto as America and her Christian underpinnings were moled from within the highest levels of gubmint.) Ergo, this day is NO accident, friend.
This is a good thing, imo. Yep - nothing wrong with that... "Organized" is never necessarily a good thing.
As FDR told us, "If anything happens, it is not an accident."
Black muslim separatist? Yes, I disagree. I don't think Malcolm X would have thought much of Obama. O's church is closer to Jewish Marxism. To what end should it be encouraged? For one thing, safe neighborhoods for whites. More generally, white survival. I'm not in favor of the prevailing partial separation, where blacks are entitled to exclusively black institutions and clubs and also entitled to enter white institutions and clubs. If it does... Thank you nostrildamus. Negotiations will be required, but not necessarily violent negotiations. But where blacks specifically are concerned, potential violence is really a non-issue IMO. It's no contest.
Redneck vs. cop: Redneck. Cop vs. n-word: Cop. n-word vs. white guilter: n-word. Being a lawyer knocks you down a peg, so redneck lawyer vs. cop and n-word lawyer vs. white guilter are toss-ups. White guilter lawyers are the lowest form of life. FDR, eh? He would have known since Communists ran amok in his White House with impunity.
This is not surprising. Try and find a Christain who actually lives by the sermon on the mount. Hypocricy is rampant. It's do as I say, not as I do. This land may be filled with sheep, but even the sheep aren't falling for the dogma of hypocricy. Honestly, if this were truly a Christain nation we wouldn't have 37 million people on food stamps or half a million homeless vets on the streets or one million homeless students in our schools.
Bamster's Church was considered "Black Marxist Theology"; And they just happened to have "honored" Louis Farrahkhan one too many times...Oh...and then there's Hussein's pesky name and religious upbringing and...oh, nevermind. To what end should it be encouraged? For one thing, safe neighborhoods for whites. More generally, white survival. Well, it's certainly trending that way isn't it? It appears we'll have a parting NOT of the Red Sea, but of the Black and White Seas. Things are gonna get tribal - if they're not already. I'm not in favor of the prevailing partial separation, where blacks are entitled to exclusively black institutions and clubs and also entitled to enter white institutions and clubs. Hear ya. The hypocrisy is deafening. Freedom of association it seems is ALL one-sided as is so-called "racism." Thank you nostrildamus. Negotiations will be required, but not necessarily violent negotiations. But where blacks specifically are concerned, potential violence is really a non-issue IMO. It's no contest. I prefer my real name - The Great Carnac.... The only insanity taking place will occur in the Cities. Blacks will NOT be venturing outside their comfort zone, aka the City, so I agree - wide-spread violence should NOT be an issue. Otherwise it'll wind as target practice.
You mean you not only expect a second Jesus, but millions of Jesuses? Wow - you're a tough crowd.
lol.......there is only one Jesus delivering the sermon. Do you know any Christains who abide by it? I know a few.....but they call themselves Buddhists.
It can't go the way of the rest of the primitive myths soon enough. The world would have been much better off without it in the first place.
Abide in it 100%? Wouldn't that would make them Christ-like Perfect? Hey Teach - Are you giving points for 90%-95% or FAILING your students? I suppose you'd find problems at fine dining establishments with the geometrical arrangement of the sprig parsley on your plate.
I've yet to find a handful of Christains at 90%. Granted, what is asked is not easy, but the sermon is really is what it means to be Christain in a nutshell. Aren't you supposed to strive to be Christ-like Perfect? Isn't that the gist of it all? Are you supposed to accept less and act less and do less and be less or are you supposed to give it all you have to give? Hang out with some mindful Buddhists and you will find that people CAN abide, without a bunch of excuses and without ever claiming to be perfect or even striving for perfection. It's all about living moment to moment by your ACTIONS and not your words.
It's all about living moment to moment by your ACTIONS and not your words. While reading about the events of Lord Buddha's life a few months ago, I was sold on Buddhism. No hocus pocus, no promises of an afterlife, Life is what you make it. Om Mani Padme Hum
No it isn't easy...And we ALL fall short of the goal posts set up by Christ's Sermon on the Mount - but not for lack of trying or realizing we're quite imperfect. Aren't you supposed to strive to be Christ-like Perfect? Isn't that the gist of it all? Are you supposed to accept less and act less and do less and be less or are you supposed to give it all you have to give? We're shown where the goalposts are. Some of us strive to get closer to reaching than others, but that's why they're there. If anyone actually did make it, there'd be no reason for a Savior, would there? They'd then be sinless and thus "Perfect." And don't tell me ANY Buddhist is perfect. Sure - we're commanded NOT to sin. If we do to repent. We just can't lose sight of those goal posts or give up just because we're imperfect.
Consider the jewel of the Lotus.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" Om Mani Padme Hum One moment at a time, sizzlerguy. I love the opening line from the Dhamapada: Our life is shaped by our mind; we become what we think. Which life story did you read? I've read several. Depok Chopra wrote a good one and I'm also fond of 'Old Path White Clouds' by Thich Nhat Hanh. Actually, I like all of Thich Nhat Hanh works. Buddhism is more of a philosophy of life than a religion, IMO. I think all faiths could benefit from the teachings on controling emotions, living in the moment, learning discipline and taking responsibility.
Life is what you make it. With no rhyme or reason for Life and Creation? Btw, isn't everything we see - our entire world and Universe "hocus-pocus"?? You actually believe this..we..are just some wild and crazy random "accident"? Why would an Almighty do ALL of this...FOR ABSOLUTELY NOTHING??
This guy is the Indian Phineas T. Barnum.
Does that come with the fried rice?
The Bible already addresses ALL of the above.
Sure - we're commanded NOT to sin. If we do to repent. We just can't lose sight of those goal posts or give up just because we're imperfect. Buddhism isn't about seeking perfection and, honestly, neither is Christianity. Both are paths to mindful existence, love and compassion. Of course, you would still need a savior, even if one actually did make it. Aren't you planning on a Second Coming, Lib? It very easy to just keep on sinning when all you have to do is repent. No need for discipline or a change of behavior, just a few words and "poof" all is forgiven so you can go back and do it all over again, so long as you keep that goal post in sight. This is one of my basic problems with the Christain dogma as most Christains perceive it. No need to do too much because all you really seek can never be attained. The sermon on the mount isn't about telling you what you can't achieve; it's about what you CAN accomplish and that's straight from your Savior's mouth. I also disagree with this notion that fear actually evokes real change within people, when, really, all that ever evokes true change is LOVE.
Heck, I just logged on the net, and read about the birth of Lord Buddha. His mother died shortly after Lord Buddha was born, and about how a young prophet predicted that Lord Buddha may grow up to be a great Buddha if he saw others who suffered. And about how his father wanted to protect him from the outside world, how his father worshipped material things, and didn't want Lord Buddha to be a Holy man. I don't know which exact version I read, but I remember that when he rode out on his horse, he saw enuf to convince him that honesty, doing harm to no-one, and always seeking wisdom were the ways to be happy. Didn't Lord Buddha start off with only about 60 believers to spread his message.? I ain't no expert on all the details, and don't claim to be. I think that Lord Buddha would approve of the way that I've followed his simple message.
I've found it there, but rarely do I find Christians living by the book. In Buddhism it's all laid out numerically, perhaps to help people apply the knowledge from day to day. For instance, we discuss sins and you opt for the sin/repent scenario. That's not a taking responsibility approach, that's not a disciplined approach to sin alleviation in life. Is this sin/repent scenario condusive to emotional control or more condusive to self gratifcation? It's the application that I question, Lib, because, honestly, I don't see many of these attributes prevelant in the Christain flock today. Although, I have seen it within some sects from time to time.
Of course, you would still need a savior, even if one actually did make it. Aren't you planning on a Second Coming, Lib? Lol, yeah - I'm looking forward to my "encore" appearance - but not here, not in this world. In Paradise there is no more pain or memory of pain. Only infinite love and unimaginable glory... Sure here it should be about "mindful existence, love and compassion"...But then about Acceptance that we are not "good enough" to make it to Heaven on our own merit; That's when it becomes about Repentance. Redemption. Eternal Salvation. It very easy to just keep on sinning when all you have to do is repent. No need for discipline or a change of behavior, just a few words and "poof" all is forgiven so you can go back and do it all over again, so long as you keep that goal post in sight. I understand what you're saying; Legit questions. I know those types of "Christians." Words and prayers can be hollow. God knows our hearts and like Santa he knows if we've been bad or good ON PURPOSE and tap-dancing and BSing our way to The Promised Land. He also know if and when He's being ignored... This is one of my basic problems with the Christain dogma as most Christains perceive it. No need to do too much because all you really seek can never be attained. The sermon on the mount isn't about telling you what you can't achieve; it's about what you CAN accomplish and that's straight from your Savior's mouth. I also disagree with this notion that fear actually evokes real change within people, when, really, all that ever evokes true change is LOVE. Good and fair analysis and points... It's true that one can become spiritually lazy and feel like they're doing "just enough" to get by and take it for granted; I'm guilty of it myself at times. This is why Christians are supposed to hang around with other Christians and inspire each other, or read their Bible more often than less. There is real fellowship and love with genuine Christians - I realize the tendency to stereotype them/us all as "Holy Rollers." And of course "love thy neighbor" is Jesus last commandment. As to fear being a motivating factor...well...Did you "fear" not getting that piece of cake after dinner when you were a kid ONLY if you "finish your peas"? :-) Yes, I DO fear facing God...and having Him open up that Big Book on Judgment Day...and coming up short. But I DO hunger for His approval, His Redemption, His glory. Forever is a loooong time - I'd rather be in heaven than gone fishin.
When organized religions quits justifying the criminal actions of government, then I may consider going to church.
Good post, Lib. I'll leave you with Timithy, i, 7: God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. : ) Oh, and from the Sermon on the Mount: Let your light shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. All works are done, not to glorify the self or for future rewards of heaven, nor out of fear, but rather, to glorify Him, which is why I view love as the only real mechanism that changes anything, especially the human heart.
Maybe people are tired of trying to figure out which of the 38,000+ denominations has the real "truth." Why spend your whole life living the tenets of a particular denomination, just to die and be told that you're going to hell because you didn't pick the right one. If God wanted me to worship him, then he can damn well tell me which one of his 38000+ cults I should belong to. Since he refuses to do that, but will hold me accountable for being wrong anyway, then he can kiss my ass. I'm not going to bother.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976 The purpose of the legal system is to protect the elites from the wrath of those they plunder.- Elliott Jackalope
I do not count B as a religion, that's me tho, no structure, no mention of a deity.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" If one is all powerful, why should "he" care if anyone worships him? Besides isn't a need or desire to be worshiped rooted in self doubt? A true God would have no need or desire for it.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" I must disagree on the structure aspect, although I concede on the deity issue. It's more about a path to consciousness and alleviation of suffering, but that path is very structured with discipline, responsibility and mindful awareness. That's why I've long felt that Buddhism would be helpful in tandem with other faiths. There is no rule that says one must give up any previous religious ties to practice, nor is there any dogma stating this is the only path, but rather a path to alleviate suffering with compassion, love and awareness.
I am OK with that and agree with it - sure you know B has many incarnations, Tebetian etc. It to me seems to be a road map not a destination, as C and Islam are.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" I strongly agree about your comment about Buddhism working in tandem with other faiths. And it's time to take a "Vow of Silence" for the night.
Buddhism has many incarnations, with more or less disciple and alternate structures to attain the goal. IMHO, no matter what incarnation one opts for the destination is consciousness or to become a buddha, an enlightened one. I've read the Koran and the Bible and I've come to the conclusion that this too is the goal, although the message gets lost in dogma. Christ is an enlightened one, an example of a buddha who teaches his flock to strive to be like Him. What do you think the destination for C and Islam are? Just heaven and not purification of the spirit? Sometimes, I think that is the goal of many in the flock, but, personally, I think they are missing the point entirely.
Namaste, sizzlerguy. : )
They (Islam I am rudely aquainted with) seems to be a centralizing doctrine as a way to achieve heaven. A carrot to get the young children to behave.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" That said the small flock that I meet with on Sundays seem to be, generally, trying, for higher clarity. But if they knew what I really thought..................
"Satan / Cheney in "08" A carrot to get the young children to behave. Yeah, on the fundie side this is evident. This is true for Christians too. However, if you look into the Sufi interpretations you find something much more loving and compassionate, sort of like the Gnostic Gospels in Christianity. Seems in organized religion there is a tendancy toward an authoritarian approach. I've come to the conclusion that this is the dark side of organized religion, using it to control the masses through fear and submission. There is a thread through all of the major religions of the world that speaks of love, compassion and service, but that seems to get less attention in leiu of gearing the lessons toward manipulation of human ego. What I like best about Buddhism is the teachings on ego annihilation. Humans could use more of that. : )
That is hard for a impartial historian to dispute. And I don't mean me, but it is my conclusion as well.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" Yes, I am. Baptized 10 months now, and finally beginning to understand the world and the Bible. As to the work, that is outlined in the Bible, very clearly. Matthew 24:14 And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come. Jehovah's Witnesses now have more than 100,000 congregations in more than 235 lands and islands, world wide. In essense, as the faithful and discreet slave has stated, this prophecy in the Book of Matthew has been fulfilled. And, if you have much knowledge of what is happening in the world, then you should be aware that the tribulation is beginning. Those who believe that things are difficult now have no clue. The 'interesting times' are just beginning.
1 John 4;8 He that does not love has not come to know God, because God is love. : Matthew 22:39 ...‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.”
You can believe the governing body's spin the numbers if you like but it is just more propaganda. The J-dubs are very dirty. So tell me Richard, or should I call you Dick? What would you honestly think of an organization that preached against the United Nations, identifying it as the beast described in Revelations, only to find out later than that very organization was in fact a member of the U.N. for 10 years? No need to answer that Dick, I know thinking is no longer part of the equation. http://www.randytv.com/secret/unitednations.htm
Brax, but by what Biblical standards and degree others do or don't abide in has no bearing on mine or your life, your eternal soul, and your mission here. If they want to be hypocrites and roll the dice with respect to the Afterlife, let them. Christ has already warned them that he will spit them out ("I never knew you.")...Hasn't He? In Buddhism it's all laid out numerically, perhaps to help people apply the knowledge from day to day. Again - Buddhism may be a good coping device for dealing with the frailties of mortal life, but there IS something beyond nothingless and numbness of the soul - why accept a Lie that The Almighty did not provide the road to Eternal Salvation? IF you believe in a Reason, if you believe in Logic, if you believe in the Prophecies and you believe in Christ's own words - keep-your-eyes-on-the-ultimate-Grand-Prize. Fugetabout "Religion." For instance, we discuss sins and you opt for the sin/repent scenario. That's not a taking responsibility approach, that's not a disciplined approach to sin alleviation in life. Is this sin/repent scenario condusive to emotional control or more condusive to self gratifcation? Great questions... Our nature is to "sin." We're greedy, stupid, reactionary, lusty, lazy - and we lie to other and ourselves - you get the picture. Total discipline and self-control is NOT possible. Oh, some of us try more than others and with varying degrees of success. Sin is innately an emotional and spiritual process (Satan constantly tugs on our weaknesses and subconscious...."Yeah, go ahead and DO IT if it feels good, you profit, you get your rocks off.") We all battle - even Billy Graham who even went as far as NOT sharing elevators with woman if he was alone with them. Sounds silly or even absurd, but...he recognized a weakness of his. We can't give up battling till the end. Hopefully you, I, we will on that day we exit our mortal existence be greeted with, "WELL DONE my child! I've been waiting for you - WELCOME TO PARADISE!!"
I'll leave you with Timithy, i, 7: God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. : ) Oh, and from the Sermon on the Mount: Let your light shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. All works are done, not to glorify the self or for future rewards of heaven, nor out of fear, but rather, to glorify Him, which is why I view love as the only real mechanism that changes anything, especially the human heart. Thanks... Beautiful tract...YOU get it. Keep your eye on THE prize, Brax.
Whereas I admire your devotion to God and your spirituality, as a Christian, there are troubling questions about JWs... Do you believe you are the only true church on earth? Do you believe in the deity of Jesus Christ? His resurrection? Do you believe in salvation through belief in the blood sacrifice of Christ? Thanks.
Again, you do not understand Buddhism. There is no rule that one must give up or discard any previous beliefs. Christians, Hindus, Muslims and all others are welcome. There is no inherent lie because Buddhism doesn't teach that it is the way to salvation or the way to heaven. The teaching is a way to end suffering by understanding suffering and alleviation of suffering for all sentient beings. This teaching can also be found in the Bible. Buddhism offers a path, not the only path and not a path to assist people in a quest for security in the aferlife, but rather to assist them to live right here and right now. This would surely help many Christians to follow the teachings of the Sermon on the Mount. That is all about living in this life, not the afterlife. Lib, you keep referring to "your life" and "your eternal salvation" and "your mission" but I'm not so concerned for the self as you are. There were twelve diciples all seeing the world quite differently, but still offering the same message. So, I don't expect all of us to agree on anything, especially religion. Within the Sermon on the Mount, you will find many Buddhist teachings. For instance, "But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecut you...For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? When you claim that you do not care about others who are not Christian in the way that you perceive Christian to be, you are not abiding by the teaching of Christ spoken in his own words. Love is the fulfilling of the law, Lib. I think a deeper inate flaw of humans is not so much sin as the inability to love. This is the true battle within the spirit, IMHO.
This is the crux, Brax... We have only one Master. One Way. One Truth. If we get sidetracked to an alternative "truth," we are lost - at least in the context of what's commanded of us Biblically. Lib, you keep referring to "your life" and "your eternal salvation" and "your mission" but I'm not so concerned for the self as you are. There were twelve diciples all seeing the world quite differently, but still offering the same message. So, I don't expect all of us to agree on anything, especially religion. Fair enough, but that message to and from the Disciples wasn't about "religion." It was about maintaining inspiration, hope and focus on the Truth and the Good News - aka Christ's Gospel for everlasting life. Within the Sermon on the Mount, you will find many Buddhist teachings. For instance, "But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecut you...For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? Yes, and that is to be respected undoubtedly... But if God had a reason for this life (and if He's God he indeed does), and Justice and Reward, he's addressed it with His path and plan for salvation and Heaven. ANY distraction (including Buddhism) derails us. When you claim that you do not care about others who are not Christian in the way that you perceive Christian to be, you are not abiding by the teaching of Christ spoken in his own words. Love is the fulfilling of the law, Lib. I think a deeper inate flaw of humans is not so much sin as the inability to love. This is the true battle within the spirit, IMHO. I respect what you have to say... I DO care about others who are not Christian. We are commanded to love even out enemies. Do I fall short? Yes. I am a sinner. The Law is never properly fulfilled. With respect to "loving" our fellow human beings, it forever has been an obvious problem and a battle for EVERYONE, hasn't it? Sometime the best we have to offer is in not hating them unfortunately. You are right when you mention the "battle within the spirit" - it's a 24/7 thing between the Holy Spirit and Satan. One want to devour our souls, the other save it. Free Will makes victory in this spiritual battle solely our own decision. NOT the responsibility of any singular "religion," Priest, Pastor, Imam, Rabbi, or Monk.
I've been buying Buddhist items from a very reliable http://www.ebay.com seller in Nepal. He describes the "powers" of each item in the listing, and ships almost everything insured and with signiture delivery. I can't get his link to work here, but just do a search for "ebay seller yoga* guru" and you'll find 'em.
99.9% positive feedback! Interesting store... It appears the Buddhists are gonna give Catholics a run for their money with respect to "magical" beads, charms, statues and trinkets.
That's the message of Buddhism too and, like I've said, it's not a religion so much as a philosophy that applies to any life, no matter the religion. It is the everyday practice of taming the ego, nurturing compassion and becoming the inspiration that you seek from Christianity or any other religion. If you read the Dhammapada with a comparative analysis to the Sermon on the Mount, the similarities are quite striking, each is the "nutshell" of the doctrine. I have to disagree that training yourself to become the most compassionate and aware being from moment to moment is a distraction to the teachings of any religion, in fact, I would argue that this would be of great benefit. We agree on the battle. All I'm sharing is that Buddhism offers many tools and practices to win the battle(s). You look at it as an alternative teaching, but really it should be viewed as a tandem teaching. One could argue that the Sermon on the Mount offers this in a nutshell as well, but I am always perplexed that Christians, for the most part, do not partake in the day to day practice of the teaching. One can only change their ways with diligence and discipline, from moment to moment. If one simply says, "I'm a sinner and have this repent loop-hole, so I can fall back on this crutch," that doesn't evoke the necessary changes to live as commanded by any religious docrine. For the record, Buddhism is all about free-will, taking responsibility for our actions and the impact of our actions on others. It is very easy to love selectively, but it is another story to look upon your enemy as your teacher and a blessing because they reveal your own shortcomings. It's like learning the secret of suffering, that it is truly the spiritual shaping necessary for humans to break down the ego. Even today, many Christians view loss or death as "God's will" rather than their blessing to appreciate people in their lives for the time they are with them and the impact they make. You mention Satan. I wonder how much Satan really has to do when humans are so inclined to self-destruction and live only for their own ego gratification, instead of working to be of service to all those around them. It seems that Satan is often used to take the place of responsibility for free will. That ol' "The devil made me do it" scenario.
Do you believe you are the only true church on earth? Do you believe in the deity of Jesus Christ? His resurrection? Do you believe in salvation through belief in the blood sacrifice of Christ? What troubling questions? Since you have only answers supplied by others, and not by JWs, why is anything troubling? When I have questions, I do not ask those who hate or are not directly involved in what I want to know; I go right to the source. I did, and ended up a Witness..... for Jehovah. Let me ask you a question; can you join the Jehovah's Witnesses? And, let me answer the question for you; no, you can not. Why? Because there is nothing to join. So here you have your first answer; they are not a 'church,' so how could they be the only true church on earth? Explain deity to me, so that I understand your question correctly. If you mean, do we believe that Jesus Christ is the only-begotton son of God, and that he is a Mighty God (as one of many titles he carries), we certainly do, and this is extremely clear in the Bible. However, if you mean to say that Jesus Christ is the equal of/same as his Father, then we certainly do not, as Jesus Christ plainly stated in many different ways in the Bible. As to the resurrection, we absolute accept it, and understand its purpose and use in the promises made to us by Jehovah God; the resurrection of all men to life on this earth in a paradise. AFTER.... judgement is made upon those who will not accept the terms and conditions of the blessings offered by Jehovah God, including living in peace and harmoney and love. As to the rest, as is plainly stated by Jesus himself; he is the way. No one comes to the Father except through him. John 14;6 Jesus said to him: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. However, we do not use one verse for anything. Everything in the Bible has to be taken into consideration when you decide what each verse means, so there is much more to this. But to learn that requries a commitment to study of the Bible, which is what separates Jehovah's Witnesses from all other people. We actually do the studies, daily.
1 John 4;8 He that does not love has not come to know God, because God is love. : Matthew 22:39 ...‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.”
LOL!! Excellent comment! AND; very accurate. It always amazes me the number of people who accept what is promoted.... anyone who goes back to the source of Buddism would find out that it is not a religion at all. Course, I have trouble giving serious consideration to anything that starts off by describing the earth as a tableland carried on the backs of giant elephants, standing on a giant turtle, which is on a giant snake (?) floating on an ocean? I may have part of the wrong, but you get the idea!!
1 John 4;8 He that does not love has not come to know God, because God is love. : Matthew 22:39 ...‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.”
Buddhism better integrates a person's mind and body (which is why there is yoga.) And it is ar more self empowering then the sort of religious fare you are in to. It involves aspiring to a higher level of consciousness. Which of course is frightening to the leaders of any Christian or Muslim sect, as conformity and control is the central notion of a faith like yours'. As for the metaphorical imagery you criticize, do I really need to dig out some of the crazy sounding examples of Bible blather to show you that you are a hypocrite to criticize that faith by denigrating story elements of Buddhist teachings? You know, faith doesn't just have to be into the notion that there is some sort of head honcho god with a nail him up son at his side. It can also involve aspirations of the elevation of one's soul and spirit to a higher level of being. I am not Buddhist, but I like thee teachings and focus, a heck of allot more then that which are the central notions and teachings of a faith like you are into.
Mike, since you have absolutely no clue as to what the teachings of my faith is, your comments are just plain silly. The only things you have to go by is what you have heard from the so-called mainstream of Christendom, nearly all of which is in error. Which explains why I quit that form of Christianity many, many years ago, and was fortunate enough to finally find people who could teach me how to understand the Bible -- for the first time in my life. You will never do that, so you will live in blindness. Which is a proper perspective from which to appreciate Buddism.
1 John 4;8 He that does not love has not come to know God, because God is love. : Matthew 22:39 ...‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.”
catholic.com has some interesting stuff. If this is accurate the Witnesses believe that Jesus is not divine. There is more, but any real Christian would recoil in horror at that alone.
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I know that you major fail to understand Buddhism so bad you couldn't even spell it right. Never mind understanding it seeks a level of enlightenment great enough to end the suffering of people by transcending the cycle of suffering and re-incarnation. I mean, you thinly condemn a faith with no understanding, which is a syndrome of a dangerously high level of narrow mindedness. As for your beliefs, I lurked your threads and read many of your posts and have a good idea of how your sect is different then most Christianity. But you are narrow minded, so don't welcome hearing this, which is not a surprise.
And you will never know, because you only listen to those who have something to gain from their lies. After all, it is much better to listen to men than to Almighty God.
1 John 4;8 He that does not love has not come to know God, because God is love. : Matthew 22:39 ...‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.”
I always believed that if God would throw away good people, just for not believing in Jesus, then he's not much of a loving God is he? I've debated religion with everyone at some point, and I've come to the conclusion that organized religions across the boards are an absolute scam, and a control mechanism. I'll wait and see what happens, and should God show up to welcome me, Great. If not, well then I guess I won't have anything to disappoint me now will I?
Better to be hated for what you are, than loved for what you are not.
LOL! That is funny! As if there is something that I could not understand if I decided to pursue it. Quite frankly, I do not care to understand it, and could care less if I spell it correctly or not. In the beginning, it was not a religion, and the Budda (Siddhartha Gautama) never claimed it as such. It was only later, as men found a way to profit from it, that it became a 'religion.' Buddhism is a major religion in Asia. It is primarily a belief in a method of achieving liberation from suffering. This method was formulated around 600 BC by a man referred to as the Buddha. As such, it has no solution to the problems on this earth, just as Christendom does not. It is also a new comer to the stage of religion on earth. Christendom, of course, being still newer, from around the year 350 C.E. Actually, those who follow Buddhism are no different from those who follow the Veda (Hinduism). The original Veda was written as a search for God; now, it is considered to be from some god. Shows how little people actually understand.
1 John 4;8 He that does not love has not come to know God, because God is love. : Matthew 22:39 ...‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.”
Oh so true. I learned long ago, from a relative who was a habitual liar that speaking the "truth" is much more simple than trying to lie thru life. This cousin of mine (deceased, contracted cancer in prison after killing someone in a car wreck while drunk) absolutely couldn't tell the simple truth about anything. I never said anything about it to him, but he had a lot of trouble trying to keep track of his constant lies. From the day he arrived in my town, I knew that I NEVER wanted to be like him.
And who claims that He does throw away good people? Oh, right, those who claim to have a secret way of 'saving' you; just put your money in the plate, and we will clear a path to heaven for you. How silly that people believe such nonsense, instead of actually doing the work neccessary to understand. Ever heard of the resurrection? Of course not, cause just cause it is a major feature of the Bible, well, Christendom does not teach it, so must not exist, right? And it does not matter that there are 9 resurrections in the Bible to prove to all that it is true, but what the hey. The major lesson of the Bible, Tommy dear, is that ALL people who have lived since the time of Adam and Eve, will be resurrected from the common grave of mankind and afforded the opportunity to learn the Truth about Almighty God, BEFORE they are judged for their actions AFTER their resurrection. After all, as the Bible clearly teaches, those who have died have paid the price for their sins, and will be resurrected free of sin. Course, such Bible Truths sure poke a big hole in the ability of 'churches' to collect for salvation.
1 John 4;8 He that does not love has not come to know God, because God is love. : Matthew 22:39 ...‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.”
Live for today. Don't rely on anything else after you're dead.
That's why I checked it against the Watchtower and found it credible. So, Jesus is just an Archangel per the Watchtower Society. Odd that.
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Amen!
That verse got me through a very tough time in my life.
This is a good thing, imo. i agree--emphasis on individuals.
"This Act (the Federal Reserve Act, Dec. 23rd 1913) establishes the most gigantic trust on earth. When the President (Woodrow Wilson) signs the Bill, the invisible government of the Monetary Power will be legalised... The worst legislative crime of the ages is perpetrated by this banking and currency Bill."--Charles Lindbergh, Sr.
Dammit, you genuine believers make it *SO* hard to post my Zombie Jesus posters. (and there are a couple that crack me up...) It'd make me seem almost inconsiderate. :)
LOL!! You are funny. As I said, it is amazing when you listen only to those who gain from your foolishness. I have even posted in this thread about Jesus Christ, the only-begotton son of God, but of course, what the catholics write is so much more important..... like about the crusades (OHHH! Much like today!!) and the millions they killed over the Reformation not to mention their help in bringing Hitler to power and, of course, the many, many priests and their abuse of children, esp. young boys. Oh, by-the-way, here are two Bible quotes -- after you read them, fill me in once more about catholic theology; 1 Timothy 4:1 However, the inspired utterance says definitely that in later periods of time some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired utterances and teachings of demons, 2 by the hypocrisy of men who speak lies, marked in their conscience as with a branding iron; 3 forbidding to marry, commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be partaken of with thanksgiving by those who have faith and accurately know the truth. Did you get that? Teaching of demons -- teaching forbidding to marry. Clear on that, and how it relates to the abuse of children by men who have been forbidden to marry? What, specifically, does the Bible say about marriage? 1 Timothy 3:12 Let ministerial servants be husbands of one wife, presiding in a fine manner over children and their own households. 13 For the men who minister in a fine manner are acquiring for themselves a fine standing and great freeness of speech in the faith in connection with Christ Jesus. Please tell me something, how is it that men who have no knowledge of families can teach others how to manage families correctly.... or does this somehow have something to do with the rate of divorce in catholic marriages.... which is the same as or greater than the average divorce rates world wide? By-the-way, divorce rates amoung the Witnesses for Jehovah are less than 1%....... Oh, and one more Bible fact; Mattew 7:15 Be on the watch for the false prophets that come to YOU in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. 16 By their fruits YOU will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? 17 Likewise every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit; 18 a good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, neither can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. 19 Every tree not producing fine fruit gets cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Really, then, by their fruits YOU will recognize those [men]. Ever heard of this particular Bible point? By their fruits you shall know them? What does that mean about the rest of their teachings? Now, want me to tell you what I have learned about how the Witnesses for Jehovah live according to what they learn from the Bible -- daily? Then, you want to continue this discussion?
1 John 4;8 He that does not love has not come to know God, because God is love. : Matthew 22:39 ...‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.”
Yes, you are correct, EXCEPT, I live among and congregate with people who live by the Bible in their daily lives. I see the fruitage, and enjoy it, daily, in my associations with my brothers and sisters in the faith as preached by Jesus Christ. Perhaps you should listen to the facts instead of the lies of the world and look into it... if, indeed, you are truly interested in Bible Truths and people who accept them and live by them.
1 John 4;8 He that does not love has not come to know God, because God is love. : Matthew 22:39 ...‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.”
How completely silly; so you are for grab whatever you can get for we party today and die tomorrow, and their is no reason for anyone to live a clean life. You have accurately stated what is wrong with the world today, so enjoy the filth that you willingly promote and live in.
1 John 4;8 He that does not love has not come to know God, because God is love. : Matthew 22:39 ...‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.”
i agree--emphasis on individuals. How sad. You just described the Jehovah's Witnesses, but you have no clue.
1 John 4;8 He that does not love has not come to know God, because God is love. : Matthew 22:39 ...‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.”
Tom, you should know better than that. The point is not the worship of Almighty God, it is the need for guidance to do away with the evil of men who have no desire to be guided to peace and love. Which is what created the original problem on earth, and in heaven. There is only one solution, and we have no control over it; simply control over ourselves and our acceptance, or rejection, of such guidance. As the Bible clearly points out. That solution, by-the-way, is very, very close.
1 John 4;8 He that does not love has not come to know God, because God is love. : Matthew 22:39 ...‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.”
Oh, geez, richard, do you want to get into a discussion about Joseph Rutherford? I know many JW's. Many are kind and good people. However, one need only scratch the surface of Rutherford to question "the facts" and the "lies of the world" that you speak of. How can you people think that Rutherford was some sort of prophet? Have you forgotten his "fishing" expeditions to lure young girls to have sex? Rutherford has had a history of opposition for Bible scholars. Wasn't the Bible good enough in the first place? Why the need to make revisions?
LOL
You're arguing the Bible, not JW theology. Once you start getting into what the Watchtower Society says, and you will, then you'll start to see what I mean.
COMRADE! Why are you not showing your Party affiliation and showing proper respect for Dear Leader? Put your Barackstika armband on RIGHT NOW!
So rather than do your own research, you will depend upon lies dreamed up by those who hate the Truth, right? How can you people think that Rutherford was some sort of prophet? Rutherford is not and never has been considered a prophet. Never. Many Witnesses have no idea even as to who he was. I did not know anything about him until people started to throw him in my face. In fact, many of the things he talked about where just beginnings, and were changed as the knowledge and understanding of the Bible continued to grow amoung the Witnesses. Just as today, most have no idea who is president of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. Have you forgotten his "fishing" expeditions to lure young girls to have sex? Says who? Where are the police reports on this? What I do know, despite all of the lies told about him, is that he devoted the entirety of his considerable fortune to the study of the Bible --- and their is one more thing I know about what he started; the fruitage of his work. I live among those who study the Bible daily, and live as best they can according to what is taught in the Bible. For one example, the divorce rate among Witnesses is less than one percent. For another example, many, many businesses look to hire Witnesses because of their known honesty and dilgence inperforming their work. THAT, is what I know about Rutherford; the fruitage of what he started. Show me someone who has done better over the last 150 years, and then talk more about how evil he was, and if you can not do so, then shut up about him, and study the facts instead of the lies. Wasn't the Bible good enough in the first place? Why the need to make revisions? What revisions? Please, inform me. As I have stated numerous times, I have 12 different translations of the Bible; I have compared them to the New World Translation of the Bible. Very, very few differences, but much, much clearer. Also, I posted all of the info about the book written by a NON-Witnesses, a professor of languages from Norhtern Arizona University, where he plainly states that the New World Translation of the Bible is the MOST ACCURATE TRANSLATION IN ENGLISH AVAILABLE TODAY. You can order a copy of his book and check it out for yourself, if you wish. I will take this a step further; 1 Timothy 7:15 Be on the watch for the false prophets that come to YOU in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. 16 By their fruits YOU will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? 17 Likewise every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit; 18 a good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, neither can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. 19 Every tree not producing fine fruit gets cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Really, then, by their fruits YOU will recognize those [men]. Look carefully at the world around you. Very, very carefully. Look also very, very carefully at those nations dominated by what you consider to be Christian; Europe and the United States, and then tell me about their fruitage. Tell me, carefully, about homosexual marriages, about praticing homosexuals now preaching in nearly every so-called christian religion, about the abuse of young children by catholic priests -- and the rest of the problems within the cathoplic church -- go ahead, tell me all about their furitage. And I will put the fruitage of what Rutherford started up against any of them. Any day of the week. By their fruits YOU will recognize them. Pretty clear message to me.
1 John 4;8 He that does not love has not come to know God, because God is love. : Matthew 22:39 ...‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.”
Hey Richard. Just so you understand, you're not talking to a 10 year old who hasn't lived. You know where the whole Christian Belief System Started??? Zoroastrianism. Exactly the same. Let me know when that sets in, and then we'll talk about my own death and resurrection.
Better to be hated for what you are, than loved for what you are not.
You are so foolish. There is no JW theology. There is only the Bible. Everything we do, which is why I am a Jehovah's Witnesses, is based ONLY on the Bible. There is no theology. We never base anything on just one verse, or, just one thought. Everything is backed up in the Bible. THAT... is why this is so; 1 Timothy 7:15 Be on the watch for the false prophets that come to YOU in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. 16 By their fruits YOU will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? 17 Likewise every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit; 18 a good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, neither can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. 19 Every tree not producing fine fruit gets cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Really, then, by their fruits YOU will recognize those [men]. By their fruits YOU will recognize them. I will put the fruitage of the Jehovah's Witnesses up against anyone, anywhere, anytime. Why? Because they are the only people in the world who actually do live according to what they learn from the Bible. THAT IS WHY I AM WITH THEM. Now, here is another point that people like you miss; you do not join the Witnesses. Why? Because there is nothing to join. You become a Witness. That is all there is to it. Nobody checks on you; nobody does a roll call. Know what else? No man, anywhere, has a list of who is a Jehovah's Witness. And, we have no head here on this earth. Neat, huh?
1 John 4;8 He that does not love has not come to know God, because God is love. : Matthew 22:39 ...‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.”
Exactly the same. Not hardly. And since you do not have a clue as to what the Bible really teaches, how would you know? This coming from someone who also had no clue, until I was taught how to correctly study the Bible... after reading it for 25 years or so.
1 John 4;8 He that does not love has not come to know God, because God is love. : Matthew 22:39 ...‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.”
Wow, I guess my class in theology in college were a complete waste Richard. When your God leaves you behind because he thinks you're too much of a pompous ass, let me know how it feels.
Better to be hated for what you are, than loved for what you are not.
I enjoy the way TommyTheMadArtist communicates, whether he's talkin' gold or religion, he's rite on point.
Look, Richard, I've extensively investigated this church. At one time I dated a wonderful man who wanted to get married......if only I would convert. No conversion was forthcoming. You are more defensive than objective re: the history of JW's. Don Adams is the current president of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. Yes, revision, such as inserting the name Jehovah 237 times in the New Testement, translation of certain texts are also biased to JW practices and doctrines. Richard, you make silly claims that others are "foolish" in their interpretation of the Bible and arrogantly claim that only you and your church are the "true" Christianity. The entire theocratic ogranization within the JW's is to control all aspects of JW's lives, using guilt and manipulation to hold sway over those who question the doctrines. Frankly, I find the entire notion of "disfellowship" over questioning the organization and doctrines patently NON-CHRISTIAN. Yes, "By THEIR fruits you will recognize them." And I do.
How Christian of you to call others "foolish" for daring to disagree with you. Is this arrogance the "fruit" in which we should recognize you Richard? No JW theology? lol.....bovine excrement. Let's not forget the Watchtower Society and its position and structure within the daily lives of all JW's.
You are ignorant and apathetic. Go thou forth and learn something. Start with Wikipedia.
COMRADE! Why are you not showing your Party affiliation and showing proper respect for Dear Leader? Put your Barackstika armband on RIGHT NOW!
Yes, I would suspect that is probably a pretty good analysis of the situation. To that I would add that all of the college classes that were held about economics over the last 60 or so years were just as big of a waste of time, so do not fell lonely about your situation. I could add some more classes in here as well..... or are you unaware of what is actually going on in the world today? You can come in here and tell me all about the theology that is taught in America AFTER you explain to me how that theology has led to homosexuals being permitted into the churches of America. And, to the acceptance of homosexual marriages. Until you can do that, do not bother. When your God leaves you behind because he thinks you're too much of a pompous ass, let me know how it feels. LOL!! I will do that, by all means. However, since your name is probably not written into the book of life, it may be difficult finding you after all of this is over. Reincarnation, indeed!!
1 John 4;8 He that does not love has not come to know God, because God is love. : Matthew 22:39 ...‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.”
Not important. But thanks for the info. For whatever reason. Yes, revision, such as inserting the name Jehovah 237 times in the New Testement, They inserted nothing extra into anything in the text of the Bible. I will accept what the professional translators say about the New World Translation of the Bible over what your opinion is, and I have posted that info before. I suppose you are also going to claim that their restoration of the name of Jehovah into what you call the Old Testament was also a revision, correct? and arrogantly claim that only you and your church are the "true" Christianity. Really? Care to revisit the rest of the posts in this thread and tell me all about how great the 'other' religions have it? Want to discuss the fruitage of different sects and theologies? The bottom line that we are talking about comes right back to fruitage, as in by their fruitage you will know them. And, please do not forget that you are talking to a Jehovah's Witness. You sound just like others in here telling me what a great chance I am taking by DARING to post to such a 4um, cause when the bosses of the Witnesses find out, why, I will be kicked out!! You actually have no clue as to who we are and how we base our worship. No one checks on me; no one says you HAVE to go to this or that meeting, no one demands anything of me; no one asks me for money; no one puts my name on a roll call or any other list. Ever. Frankly, I find the entire notion of "disfellowship" over questioning the organization and doctrines patently NON-CHRISTIAN. And that statement, frankly, is one of the most stupid and unScriptural statements I can remember reading anywhere, anytime. Course, just perhaps you are among those who have welcomed the homosexuals into the churches of America. 1 Corinthians 5:9 In my letter I wrote YOU to quit mixing in company with fornicators, 10 not [meaning] entirely with the fornicators of this world or the greedy persons and extortioners or idolaters. Otherwise, YOU would actually have to get out of the world. 11 But now I am writing YOU to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man. 12 For what do I have to do with judging those outside? Do YOU not judge those inside, 13 while God judges those outside? “Remove the wicked [man] from among yourselves.” Do you get that? Remove the wicked man from among yourselves. That is not our right; it is our OBLIGATION within the Congregation of Jehovah. And that is the bottom line; this is not OUR Congregation; it belongs to Jehovah God. And that, dear, is the difference between you and me, and the rest of the world, and the Witnesses for Jehovah.
1 John 4;8 He that does not love has not come to know God, because God is love. : Matthew 22:39 ...‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.”
REally? Let us talk about your Catholic theology for just a moment, shall we? In the so-called Old Testament, there are numerous references to the Resurrection. For instance; Isaiah 25:8; Daniel 12:1, 2, 13. In those Scriptures it talks not only about the Resurrection to life here on this earth, but how Almighty God will wipe out death on this earth. We are even told of the resurrection of the righteous and the unrighteous, but instead of this, your so-called church teaches that you must grow old and die before you can go to heaven. So you believe that a God of love (1 John 4:8) will let people die forever, rather than bringing back the tree of life; Genesis 2:7; 3:20. Want to explain that to me? Oh, wait, you also believe that the same God of love (1 John 4:8) tortures people forever in a fiery hell! I almost forgot!! Or...... do you, cause the pope has stated that, after 1700 years of teaching such, perhaps they did not have ... it ... quite ... right. Instead, it means being cut off from God forever. As in, destruction, ya know? So go ahead, lecture me about theology, cause ours comes directly from the Bible and nowhere else, as is proved by our fruitage and by the constant study that each of us devotes to the Bible. The Witnesses for Jehovah are growing and growing fast all over the world. Just alone in Mexico, this year, there will be built more than 300 Kingdom Halls. At that same time, the cathoic church will close numberous churches because they do not have enough priests or people attending. Care to continue this?
1 John 4;8 He that does not love has not come to know God, because God is love. : Matthew 22:39 ...‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.”
Tell me something, please, since you obviously think you know more about this than I do; what is the position of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society within the Jehovah's Witnesses? Oh, and please point out the personalities within that Society and how they are used to form our opinions, OK? And, while you are at it, show me some pictures of such, maybe in their limos and/or mansions, OK? Oh, and you gave me the name of the president of the Society (sorry, I already forgot it!), so fill me in on how much he makes each year, OK? Let's get down to brass tacks!!! And, while you are at that, show me how many inroads homosexuals have made into the Society, oh, and boozers, womanizers and smokers as well. I mean, you must have archived such info, right? And while you are looking for such, remember this; we do not seek the glory due to Jehovah God. Never! Nor do we make spectacles out of ourselves, unlike people of the world. And never make the mistake of taking your eye off of the ball; the bottom line here is the fruitage of the Spirit; as I have stated here, and which you choose to ignore, is that I will put the fruitage of the lives and the work of the Witnesses up against any group in the world. Period.
1 John 4;8 He that does not love has not come to know God, because God is love. : Matthew 22:39 ...‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.”
What makes you think I'm a practicing Catholic? As usual, you're a day late, a dollar short, and still ignorant and apathetic.
COMRADE! Why are you not showing your Party affiliation and showing proper respect for Dear Leader? Put your Barackstika armband on RIGHT NOW!
There is no need to. The Bible itself proves that Sola Scriptura is wrong. Check John 21:25 (the last verse) for details. Limiting yourself to the Bible alone causes you to miss quite a bit. Its a shame you try and put everything in a box because your understanding and ability to comprehend is so shallow.
COMRADE! Why are you not showing your Party affiliation and showing proper respect for Dear Leader? Put your Barackstika armband on RIGHT NOW!
What I find so amusing, is that you are absolutely certain that your name IS written in the book of life. As they say, pride goeth before the fall. You are going to fall, and your supposition that you are already saved, is what will damn you. I've already died once. It was a life changing experience for me. I have absolutely no fear or worries about it, or what is coming in the hereafter where I am concerned. I've got things to do in this world that are far more important than listening to someone who thinks they know it all, and sits in judgement of others, when only GOD can do that. You're a laughable joke to me.
Better to be hated for what you are, than loved for what you are not.
I'll wait and see what happens, and should God show up to welcome me, Great. If not, well then I guess I won't have anything to disappoint me now will I? Who said God would "throw away good people"? And who is the Arbiter of "good"? God, isn't it? Thus He shall judge the destiny of eternal souls. Moreover, Jesus said those who "knew" him would indeed join him in Paradise. Why "wait and see what happens"? By that time it's far too late to affect Judgment. Isn't it the biggest investment you'll ever make - your eternal soul? This isn't exactly akin to waiting to see how your IRA turns out or a verdict on a lawsuit. "Disappointment" come Judgment Day will a gross understatement; Horror will be more like the emotion of realizing at that moment just how simple accepting God's Key to Eternal Life was in this life, while arrogantly expecting "good" (as defined by you or others) was the criteria to Heaven was....nothing more than a Lie. Mere "good" is still dirty in God's eyes which was THE reason for the Sinless Lamb to be sacrificed. I've debated religion with everyone at some point, and I've come to the conclusion that organized religions across the boards are an absolute scam, and a control mechanism. Sure - many organized sects have been run by unscrupulous profiteers and scam artists; But why should that nullify and invalidate the Word of God and His Gospel? Why remain distracted and obsessed by the "conclusion" that your eternal soul lies in the hands of "organized religion" - and corrupt one at that? Only we know what the real reasons are to reject God and his Laws. There is however the matter of "control" - by it's blatant control of a soul by Satan through the subconscious. God and the Holy Spirit will merely guide you. In the end, your fate comes down to your own Free Will.
Open season on them.
#2. To: Brian S (#0)
Christianity Is Plummeting In America, While The Number Of Non-Believers Is Skyrocketing
#3. To: Brian S (#0)
Today, the rise of disaffection is so powerful that different denominations needs to band together to find a shared language of God that can move beyond the fading divisions of the past and begin moving toward a partnership of different-but-equal traditions.
#4. To: Brian S (#0)
Today, the rise of disaffection is so powerful that different denominations needs to band together to find a shared language
#5. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#3)
#6. To: Brian S (#0)
Christianity Is Plummeting In America, While The Number Of Non-Believers Is Skyrocketing...
#7. To: Prefrontal Vortex (#1)
Good. Virtually every Christian sect is either actively complicit in the anti-white program or tacitly consenting.
#8. To: richard9151 (#2)
When Almighty God is mocked by the teaching of false beliefs not founded on the Bible, people should be aware that this is the result. God is not to be mocked, and the teaching of the so-called trinity, a fiery hell and eternal torment, going to heaven as opposed to the resurrection so clearly shown in the Bible, WILL lead to exactly this result. People will stop believing the lies.
#9. To: Brian S, believers, not bots (#0)
Instead, these individuals have a belief in God but no interest in organized religion, or they believe in a personal God but not in a formal faith tradition.
#10. To: Liberator (#7)
Muslim Black Separatism
Open season on them.
#11. To: Sam Houston (#4)
The "Moral Majority" or the "Religious Right"...put Reagan in office and has held sway ever since. This is where the rise of disaffection has come from.
#12. To: Prefrontal Vortex (#10)
An integrationist are ye?
#13. To: Lod (#9)
Instead, these individuals have a belief in God but no interest in organized religion, or they believe in a personal God but not in a formal faith tradition.
#14. To: Liberator, everyone (#12)
Ergo, this day is NO accident, friend.
#15. To: Liberator (#12)
But are you claiming 0bama's Church of Hate wasn't exactly how I characterized it?
Open season on them.
#16. To: Lod (#14)
As FDR told us, "If anything happens, it is not an accident."
#17. To: Brian S (#0)
Christianity Is Plummeting In America, While The Number Of Non-Believers Is Skyrocketing
#18. To: Prefrontal Vortex (#15)
Black muslim separatist? Yes, I disagree. I don't think Malcolm X would have thought much of Obama. O's church is closer to Jewish Marxism.
#19. To: abraxas (#17)
Try and find a Christain who actually lives by the sermon on the mount.
#20. To: Liberator (#19)
You mean you not only expect a second Jesus, but millions of Jesuses?
#21. To: Brian S (#0)
#22. To: abraxas (#20)
there is only one Jesus delivering the sermon. Do you know any Christains who abide by it? I know a few.....but they call themselves Buddhists.
#23. To: Liberator (#22)
Hey Teach - Are you giving points for 90%-95% or FAILING your students
#24. To: abraxas (#23)
Hang out with some mindful Buddhists and you will find that people CAN abide, without a bunch of excuses.....
#25. To: abraxas (#23)
I've yet to find a handful of Christains at 90%. Granted, what is asked is not easy, but the sermon is really is what it means to be Christain in a nutshell.
#26. To: sizzlerguy (#24)
Om Mani Padme Hum
#27. To: sizzlerguy (#24)
Life is what you make it.
#28. To: sizzlerguy (#24)
No hocus pocus, no promises of an afterlife,
#29. To: abraxas (#27)
Depok Chopra
#30. To: sizzlerguy (#24)
Om Mani Padme Hum
#31. To: abraxas (#27)
I think all faiths could benefit from the teachings on controling emotions, living in the moment, learning discipline and taking responsibility.
#32. To: Liberator (#25)
If anyone actually did make it, there'd be no reason for a Savior, would there? They'd then be sinless and thus "Perfect." And don't tell me ANY Buddhist is perfect.
#33. To: abraxas (#27)
Which life story?
#34. To: Liberator (#31)
The Bible already addresses ALL of the above.
#35. To: abraxas (#32)
Buddhism isn't about seeking perfection and, honestly, neither is Christianity. Both are paths to mindful existence, love and compassion.
#36. To: Brian S (#0)
Christianity Is Plummeting In America, While The Number Of Non-Believers Is Skyrocketing
#37. To: Liberator (#35)
Yes, I DO fear facing God...and having Him open up that Big Book on Judgment Day...and coming up short. But I DO hunger for His approval, His Redemption, His glory. Forever is a loooong time - I'd rather be in heaven than gone fishin.
#38. To: Brian S (#0)
#39. To: abraxas (#27)
Buddhism is more of a philosophy of life than a religion, IMO
#40. To: Hayek Fan (#38)
If God wanted me to worship him,
#41. To: tom007 (#39)
I do not count B as a religion, that's me tho, no structure, no mention of a deity.
#42. To: abraxas (#41)
#43. To: abraxas (#41)
long felt that Buddhism would be helpful in tandem with other faiths.
#44. To: tom007 (#42)
I am OK with that and agree with it - sure you know B has many incarnations, Tebetian etc. It to me seems to be a road map not a destination, as C and Islam are.
#45. To: sizzlerguy (#43)
And it's time to take a "Vow of Silence" for the night.
#46. To: abraxas (#44)
What do you think the destination for C and Islam are? Just heaven and not purification of the spirit? Sometimes, I think that is the goal of many in the flock, but, personally, I think they are missing the point entirely.
#47. To: abraxas (#44)
#48. To: tom007 (#46)
They (Islam I am rudely aquainted with) seems to be a centralizing doctrine as a way to achieve heaven.
#49. To: abraxas (#48)
I've come to the conclusion that this is the dark side of organized religion, using it to control the masses through fear and submission.
#50. To: Liberator (#8)
Are you a JW? And which "work" is that exactly?
#51. To: richard9151 (#2)
#52. To: abraxas (#34)
I've found it [Bible addressing living] there, but rarely do I find Christians living by the book. In Buddhism it's all laid out numerically, perhaps to help people apply the knowledge from day to day.
#53. To: abraxas (#37)
Good post, Lib.
#54. To: richard9151 (#50)
#55. To: Liberator (#52)
Again - Buddhism may be a good coping device for dealing with the frailties of mortal life, but there IS something beyond nothingless and numbness of the soul - why accept a Lie that The Almighty did not provide the road to Eternal Salvation? IF you believe in a Reason, if you believe in Logic, if you believe in the Prophecies and you believe in Christ's own words - keep-your-eyes-on-the-ultimate-Grand-Prize. Fugetabout "Religion."
#56. To: abraxas (#55)
Again, you do not understand Buddhism. There is no rule that one must give up or discard any previous beliefs. Christians, Hindus, Muslims and all others are welcome. There is no inherent lie because Buddhism doesn't teach that it is the way to salvation or the way to heaven.
#57. To: Liberator (#54)
(Edited)
understand Buddhism
#58. To: sizzlerguy (#57)
I've been buying Buddhist items from a very reliable http://www.ebay.com seller in Nepal. He describes the "powers" of each item in the listing, and ships almost everything insured and with signiture delivery.
#59. To: Liberator (#56)
Fair enough, but that message to and from the Disciples wasn't about "religion." It was about maintaining inspiration, hope and focus on the Truth and the Good News - aka Christ's Gospel for everlasting life.
#60. To: Liberator (#54)
Whereas I admire your devotion to God and your spirituality, as a Christian, there are troubling questions about JWs...
#61. To: Liberator (#58)
It appears the Buddhists are gonna give Catholics a run for their money with respect to "magical" beads, charms, statues and trinkets.
#62. To: richard9151 (#61)
#63. To: Ferret Mike (#62)
I am not Buddhist, but I like thee teachings and focus, a heck of allot more then that which are the central notions and teachings of a faith like you are into.
#64. To: richard9151 (#63)
you have absolutely no clue as to what the teachings of my faith is
#65. To: richard9151 (#63)
#66. To: mirage (#64)
If this is accurate
#67. To: Ferret Mike (#65)
#68. To: Ferret Mike (#65)
fail to understand Buddhism so bad you couldn't even spell it right.
#69. To: abraxas (#59)
(Edited)
look upon your enemy as your teacher and a blessing because they reveal your own shortcomings.
#70. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#67)
I always believed that if God would throw away good people,
#71. To: richard9151 (#70)
(Edited)
#72. To: richard9151 (#66)
After all, it is much better to listen to men than to Almighty God.
#73. To: abraxas (#17)
This is not surprising. Try and find a Christain who actually lives by the sermon on the mount. Hypocricy is rampant. It's do as I say, not as I do. This land may be filled with sheep, but even the sheep aren't falling for the dogma of hypocricy. Honestly, if this were truly a Christain nation we wouldn't have 37 million people on food stamps or half a million homeless vets on the streets or one million homeless students in our schools.
#74. To: abraxas (#37)
I'll leave you with Timithy, i, 7: God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. : )
#75. To: Lod (#9)
Instead, these individuals have a belief in God but no interest in organized religion, or they believe in a personal God but not in a formal faith tradition.
#76. To: lucysmom (#74)
(Edited)
#77. To: mirage (#72)
So, Jesus is just an Archangel per the Watchtower Society. Odd that.
#78. To: lucysmom, abraxas (#73)
This is not surprising. Try and find a Christain who actually lives by the sermon on the mount.
#79. To: sizzlerguy (#71)
Live for today. Don't rely on anything else after you're dead.
#80. To: christine, Lod (#75)
Instead, these individuals have a belief in God but no interest in organized religion, or they believe in a personal God but not in a formal faith tradition.
#81. To: tom007 (#40)
If one is all powerful, why should "he" care if anyone worships him?
#82. To: richard9151 (#78)
#83. To: richard9151 (#79)
#84. To: richard9151 (#77)
#85. To: abraxas (#82)
I know many JW's. Many are kind and good people. However, one need only scratch the surface of Rutherford to question "the facts" and the "lies of the world" that you speak of. How can you people think that Rutherford was some sort of prophet? Have you forgotten his "fishing" expeditions to lure young girls to have sex? Rutherford has had a history of opposition for Bible scholars. Wasn't the Bible good enough in the first place? Why the need to make revisions?
#86. To: richard9151 (#70)
#87. To: mirage (#84)
You're arguing the Bible, not JW theology. Once you start getting into what the Watchtower Society says, and you will, then you'll start to see what I mean.
#88. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#86)
Zoroastrianism.
#89. To: richard9151 (#88)
#90. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#89)
#91. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#89)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOErZuzZpS8
#92. To: richard9151 (#85)
#93. To: richard9151 (#87)
You are so foolish. There is no JW theology. There is only the Bible. Everything we do, which is why I am a Jehovah's Witnesses, is based ONLY on the Bible. There is no theology.
#94. To: richard9151 (#87)
You are so foolish. There is no JW theology.
#95. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#89)
Wow, I guess my class in theology in college were a complete waste Richard
#96. To: abraxas (#92)
Don Adams is the current president of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society.
#97. To: mirage (#94)
You are ignorant and apathetic.
#98. To: abraxas (#93)
No JW theology? lol.....bovine excrement. Let's not forget the Watchtower Society and its position and structure within the daily lives of all JW's.
#99. To: richard9151 (#97)
REally? Let us talk about your Catholic theology for just a moment, shall we?
#100. To: richard9151 (#97)
So go ahead, lecture me about theology, cause ours comes directly from the Bible and nowhere else
#101. To: richard9151 (#95)
#102. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#67)
(Edited)
I always believed that if God would throw away good people, just for not believing in Jesus, then he's not much of a loving God is he?...
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