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Title: Christianity Is Plummeting In America, While The Number Of Non-Believers Is Skyrocketing
Source:
Associated Press
URL Source: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2009 ... ler-christians-americans-gone/
Published: Sep 29, 2009
Author: Bruce Feiler
Post Date: 2009-09-29 15:56:27 by Brian S
Keywords: None
Views: 1934
Comments: 102
A shocking new study of Americans’ religious beliefs shows the beginnings of a major realignment in Americans’ relationship with God. The American Religious Identification Survey (ARIS) reveals that Protestants now represent half of all Americans, down almost 20 percent in the last twenty years. In the coming months, America will become a minority Protestant nation for the first time since the pilgrims. The number of people who claim no religious affiliation, meanwhile, has doubled since 1990 to fifteen percent, its highest point in history. Non-believers now represent the third-highest group of Americans, after Catholics and Baptists. Other headlines: 1) The number of Christians has declined 12% since 1990, and is now 76%, the lowest percentage in American history. 2) The growth of non-believers has come largely from men. Twenty percent of men express no religious affiliation; 12% of women. 3) Young people are fleeing faith. Nearly a quarter of Americans in their 20’s profess no organized religion. 4) But these non-believers are not particularly atheist. That number hasn’t budged and stands at less than 1 percent. (Agnostics are similarly less than 1 percent.) Instead, these individuals have a belief in God but no interest in organized religion, or they believe in a personal God but not in a formal faith tradition. The implications for American society are profound. Americans’ relationship with God, which drove many of the country’s great transformations from the pilgrims to the founding fathers, the Civil War to the civil rights movement, is still intact. Eighty-two percent of Americans believe in God or a higher power. But at the same time, the study offers yet another wake-up call for religious institutions. First, catering to older believers is a recipe for failure; younger Americans are tuning out. Second, Americans are interested in God, but they don’t think existing institutions are helping them draw closer to God. Finally, Americans’ interest in religion has not always been stable. It dipped following the Revolution and again following Civil War. In both cases it rebounded because religious institutions adapted and found new ways of relating to everyday Americans. Today, the rise of disaffection is so powerful that different denominations needs to band together to find a shared language of God that can move beyond the fading divisions of the past and begin moving toward a partnership of different-but-equal traditions. Or risk becoming Europe, where religion is fast becoming an afterthought.
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#16. To: Lod (#14)
FDR, eh? He would have known since Communists ran amok in his White House with impunity.
This is not surprising. Try and find a Christain who actually lives by the sermon on the mount. Hypocricy is rampant. It's do as I say, not as I do. This land may be filled with sheep, but even the sheep aren't falling for the dogma of hypocricy. Honestly, if this were truly a Christain nation we wouldn't have 37 million people on food stamps or half a million homeless vets on the streets or one million homeless students in our schools.
Bamster's Church was considered "Black Marxist Theology"; And they just happened to have "honored" Louis Farrahkhan one too many times...Oh...and then there's Hussein's pesky name and religious upbringing and...oh, nevermind. To what end should it be encouraged? For one thing, safe neighborhoods for whites. More generally, white survival. Well, it's certainly trending that way isn't it? It appears we'll have a parting NOT of the Red Sea, but of the Black and White Seas. Things are gonna get tribal - if they're not already. I'm not in favor of the prevailing partial separation, where blacks are entitled to exclusively black institutions and clubs and also entitled to enter white institutions and clubs. Hear ya. The hypocrisy is deafening. Freedom of association it seems is ALL one-sided as is so-called "racism." Thank you nostrildamus. Negotiations will be required, but not necessarily violent negotiations. But where blacks specifically are concerned, potential violence is really a non-issue IMO. It's no contest. I prefer my real name - The Great Carnac.... The only insanity taking place will occur in the Cities. Blacks will NOT be venturing outside their comfort zone, aka the City, so I agree - wide-spread violence should NOT be an issue. Otherwise it'll wind as target practice.
You mean you not only expect a second Jesus, but millions of Jesuses? Wow - you're a tough crowd.
lol.......there is only one Jesus delivering the sermon. Do you know any Christains who abide by it? I know a few.....but they call themselves Buddhists.
It can't go the way of the rest of the primitive myths soon enough. The world would have been much better off without it in the first place.
Abide in it 100%? Wouldn't that would make them Christ-like Perfect? Hey Teach - Are you giving points for 90%-95% or FAILING your students? I suppose you'd find problems at fine dining establishments with the geometrical arrangement of the sprig parsley on your plate.
I've yet to find a handful of Christains at 90%. Granted, what is asked is not easy, but the sermon is really is what it means to be Christain in a nutshell. Aren't you supposed to strive to be Christ-like Perfect? Isn't that the gist of it all? Are you supposed to accept less and act less and do less and be less or are you supposed to give it all you have to give? Hang out with some mindful Buddhists and you will find that people CAN abide, without a bunch of excuses and without ever claiming to be perfect or even striving for perfection. It's all about living moment to moment by your ACTIONS and not your words.
It's all about living moment to moment by your ACTIONS and not your words. While reading about the events of Lord Buddha's life a few months ago, I was sold on Buddhism. No hocus pocus, no promises of an afterlife, Life is what you make it. Om Mani Padme Hum
No it isn't easy...And we ALL fall short of the goal posts set up by Christ's Sermon on the Mount - but not for lack of trying or realizing we're quite imperfect. Aren't you supposed to strive to be Christ-like Perfect? Isn't that the gist of it all? Are you supposed to accept less and act less and do less and be less or are you supposed to give it all you have to give? We're shown where the goalposts are. Some of us strive to get closer to reaching than others, but that's why they're there. If anyone actually did make it, there'd be no reason for a Savior, would there? They'd then be sinless and thus "Perfect." And don't tell me ANY Buddhist is perfect. Sure - we're commanded NOT to sin. If we do to repent. We just can't lose sight of those goal posts or give up just because we're imperfect.
Consider the jewel of the Lotus.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" Om Mani Padme Hum One moment at a time, sizzlerguy. I love the opening line from the Dhamapada: Our life is shaped by our mind; we become what we think. Which life story did you read? I've read several. Depok Chopra wrote a good one and I'm also fond of 'Old Path White Clouds' by Thich Nhat Hanh. Actually, I like all of Thich Nhat Hanh works. Buddhism is more of a philosophy of life than a religion, IMO. I think all faiths could benefit from the teachings on controling emotions, living in the moment, learning discipline and taking responsibility.
Life is what you make it. With no rhyme or reason for Life and Creation? Btw, isn't everything we see - our entire world and Universe "hocus-pocus"?? You actually believe this..we..are just some wild and crazy random "accident"? Why would an Almighty do ALL of this...FOR ABSOLUTELY NOTHING??
This guy is the Indian Phineas T. Barnum.
Does that come with the fried rice?
The Bible already addresses ALL of the above.
Sure - we're commanded NOT to sin. If we do to repent. We just can't lose sight of those goal posts or give up just because we're imperfect. Buddhism isn't about seeking perfection and, honestly, neither is Christianity. Both are paths to mindful existence, love and compassion. Of course, you would still need a savior, even if one actually did make it. Aren't you planning on a Second Coming, Lib? It very easy to just keep on sinning when all you have to do is repent. No need for discipline or a change of behavior, just a few words and "poof" all is forgiven so you can go back and do it all over again, so long as you keep that goal post in sight. This is one of my basic problems with the Christain dogma as most Christains perceive it. No need to do too much because all you really seek can never be attained. The sermon on the mount isn't about telling you what you can't achieve; it's about what you CAN accomplish and that's straight from your Savior's mouth. I also disagree with this notion that fear actually evokes real change within people, when, really, all that ever evokes true change is LOVE.
Heck, I just logged on the net, and read about the birth of Lord Buddha. His mother died shortly after Lord Buddha was born, and about how a young prophet predicted that Lord Buddha may grow up to be a great Buddha if he saw others who suffered. And about how his father wanted to protect him from the outside world, how his father worshipped material things, and didn't want Lord Buddha to be a Holy man. I don't know which exact version I read, but I remember that when he rode out on his horse, he saw enuf to convince him that honesty, doing harm to no-one, and always seeking wisdom were the ways to be happy. Didn't Lord Buddha start off with only about 60 believers to spread his message.? I ain't no expert on all the details, and don't claim to be. I think that Lord Buddha would approve of the way that I've followed his simple message.
I've found it there, but rarely do I find Christians living by the book. In Buddhism it's all laid out numerically, perhaps to help people apply the knowledge from day to day. For instance, we discuss sins and you opt for the sin/repent scenario. That's not a taking responsibility approach, that's not a disciplined approach to sin alleviation in life. Is this sin/repent scenario condusive to emotional control or more condusive to self gratifcation? It's the application that I question, Lib, because, honestly, I don't see many of these attributes prevelant in the Christain flock today. Although, I have seen it within some sects from time to time.
Of course, you would still need a savior, even if one actually did make it. Aren't you planning on a Second Coming, Lib? Lol, yeah - I'm looking forward to my "encore" appearance - but not here, not in this world. In Paradise there is no more pain or memory of pain. Only infinite love and unimaginable glory... Sure here it should be about "mindful existence, love and compassion"...But then about Acceptance that we are not "good enough" to make it to Heaven on our own merit; That's when it becomes about Repentance. Redemption. Eternal Salvation. It very easy to just keep on sinning when all you have to do is repent. No need for discipline or a change of behavior, just a few words and "poof" all is forgiven so you can go back and do it all over again, so long as you keep that goal post in sight. I understand what you're saying; Legit questions. I know those types of "Christians." Words and prayers can be hollow. God knows our hearts and like Santa he knows if we've been bad or good ON PURPOSE and tap-dancing and BSing our way to The Promised Land. He also know if and when He's being ignored... This is one of my basic problems with the Christain dogma as most Christains perceive it. No need to do too much because all you really seek can never be attained. The sermon on the mount isn't about telling you what you can't achieve; it's about what you CAN accomplish and that's straight from your Savior's mouth. I also disagree with this notion that fear actually evokes real change within people, when, really, all that ever evokes true change is LOVE. Good and fair analysis and points... It's true that one can become spiritually lazy and feel like they're doing "just enough" to get by and take it for granted; I'm guilty of it myself at times. This is why Christians are supposed to hang around with other Christians and inspire each other, or read their Bible more often than less. There is real fellowship and love with genuine Christians - I realize the tendency to stereotype them/us all as "Holy Rollers." And of course "love thy neighbor" is Jesus last commandment. As to fear being a motivating factor...well...Did you "fear" not getting that piece of cake after dinner when you were a kid ONLY if you "finish your peas"? :-) Yes, I DO fear facing God...and having Him open up that Big Book on Judgment Day...and coming up short. But I DO hunger for His approval, His Redemption, His glory. Forever is a loooong time - I'd rather be in heaven than gone fishin.
When organized religions quits justifying the criminal actions of government, then I may consider going to church.
Good post, Lib. I'll leave you with Timithy, i, 7: God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. : ) Oh, and from the Sermon on the Mount: Let your light shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. All works are done, not to glorify the self or for future rewards of heaven, nor out of fear, but rather, to glorify Him, which is why I view love as the only real mechanism that changes anything, especially the human heart.
Maybe people are tired of trying to figure out which of the 38,000+ denominations has the real "truth." Why spend your whole life living the tenets of a particular denomination, just to die and be told that you're going to hell because you didn't pick the right one. If God wanted me to worship him, then he can damn well tell me which one of his 38000+ cults I should belong to. Since he refuses to do that, but will hold me accountable for being wrong anyway, then he can kiss my ass. I'm not going to bother.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976 The purpose of the legal system is to protect the elites from the wrath of those they plunder.- Elliott Jackalope
I do not count B as a religion, that's me tho, no structure, no mention of a deity.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" If one is all powerful, why should "he" care if anyone worships him? Besides isn't a need or desire to be worshiped rooted in self doubt? A true God would have no need or desire for it.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" I must disagree on the structure aspect, although I concede on the deity issue. It's more about a path to consciousness and alleviation of suffering, but that path is very structured with discipline, responsibility and mindful awareness. That's why I've long felt that Buddhism would be helpful in tandem with other faiths. There is no rule that says one must give up any previous religious ties to practice, nor is there any dogma stating this is the only path, but rather a path to alleviate suffering with compassion, love and awareness.
I am OK with that and agree with it - sure you know B has many incarnations, Tebetian etc. It to me seems to be a road map not a destination, as C and Islam are.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" I strongly agree about your comment about Buddhism working in tandem with other faiths. And it's time to take a "Vow of Silence" for the night.
Buddhism has many incarnations, with more or less disciple and alternate structures to attain the goal. IMHO, no matter what incarnation one opts for the destination is consciousness or to become a buddha, an enlightened one. I've read the Koran and the Bible and I've come to the conclusion that this too is the goal, although the message gets lost in dogma. Christ is an enlightened one, an example of a buddha who teaches his flock to strive to be like Him. What do you think the destination for C and Islam are? Just heaven and not purification of the spirit? Sometimes, I think that is the goal of many in the flock, but, personally, I think they are missing the point entirely.
Namaste, sizzlerguy. : )
They (Islam I am rudely aquainted with) seems to be a centralizing doctrine as a way to achieve heaven. A carrot to get the young children to behave.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" That said the small flock that I meet with on Sundays seem to be, generally, trying, for higher clarity. But if they knew what I really thought..................
"Satan / Cheney in "08" A carrot to get the young children to behave. Yeah, on the fundie side this is evident. This is true for Christians too. However, if you look into the Sufi interpretations you find something much more loving and compassionate, sort of like the Gnostic Gospels in Christianity. Seems in organized religion there is a tendancy toward an authoritarian approach. I've come to the conclusion that this is the dark side of organized religion, using it to control the masses through fear and submission. There is a thread through all of the major religions of the world that speaks of love, compassion and service, but that seems to get less attention in leiu of gearing the lessons toward manipulation of human ego. What I like best about Buddhism is the teachings on ego annihilation. Humans could use more of that. : )
That is hard for a impartial historian to dispute. And I don't mean me, but it is my conclusion as well.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" Yes, I am. Baptized 10 months now, and finally beginning to understand the world and the Bible. As to the work, that is outlined in the Bible, very clearly. Matthew 24:14 And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come. Jehovah's Witnesses now have more than 100,000 congregations in more than 235 lands and islands, world wide. In essense, as the faithful and discreet slave has stated, this prophecy in the Book of Matthew has been fulfilled. And, if you have much knowledge of what is happening in the world, then you should be aware that the tribulation is beginning. Those who believe that things are difficult now have no clue. The 'interesting times' are just beginning.
1 John 4;8 He that does not love has not come to know God, because God is love. : Matthew 22:39 ...‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.”
You can believe the governing body's spin the numbers if you like but it is just more propaganda. The J-dubs are very dirty. So tell me Richard, or should I call you Dick? What would you honestly think of an organization that preached against the United Nations, identifying it as the beast described in Revelations, only to find out later than that very organization was in fact a member of the U.N. for 10 years? No need to answer that Dick, I know thinking is no longer part of the equation. http://www.randytv.com/secret/unitednations.htm
Brax, but by what Biblical standards and degree others do or don't abide in has no bearing on mine or your life, your eternal soul, and your mission here. If they want to be hypocrites and roll the dice with respect to the Afterlife, let them. Christ has already warned them that he will spit them out ("I never knew you.")...Hasn't He? In Buddhism it's all laid out numerically, perhaps to help people apply the knowledge from day to day. Again - Buddhism may be a good coping device for dealing with the frailties of mortal life, but there IS something beyond nothingless and numbness of the soul - why accept a Lie that The Almighty did not provide the road to Eternal Salvation? IF you believe in a Reason, if you believe in Logic, if you believe in the Prophecies and you believe in Christ's own words - keep-your-eyes-on-the-ultimate-Grand-Prize. Fugetabout "Religion." For instance, we discuss sins and you opt for the sin/repent scenario. That's not a taking responsibility approach, that's not a disciplined approach to sin alleviation in life. Is this sin/repent scenario condusive to emotional control or more condusive to self gratifcation? Great questions... Our nature is to "sin." We're greedy, stupid, reactionary, lusty, lazy - and we lie to other and ourselves - you get the picture. Total discipline and self-control is NOT possible. Oh, some of us try more than others and with varying degrees of success. Sin is innately an emotional and spiritual process (Satan constantly tugs on our weaknesses and subconscious...."Yeah, go ahead and DO IT if it feels good, you profit, you get your rocks off.") We all battle - even Billy Graham who even went as far as NOT sharing elevators with woman if he was alone with them. Sounds silly or even absurd, but...he recognized a weakness of his. We can't give up battling till the end. Hopefully you, I, we will on that day we exit our mortal existence be greeted with, "WELL DONE my child! I've been waiting for you - WELCOME TO PARADISE!!"
I'll leave you with Timithy, i, 7: God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. : ) Oh, and from the Sermon on the Mount: Let your light shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. All works are done, not to glorify the self or for future rewards of heaven, nor out of fear, but rather, to glorify Him, which is why I view love as the only real mechanism that changes anything, especially the human heart. Thanks... Beautiful tract...YOU get it. Keep your eye on THE prize, Brax.
Whereas I admire your devotion to God and your spirituality, as a Christian, there are troubling questions about JWs... Do you believe you are the only true church on earth? Do you believe in the deity of Jesus Christ? His resurrection? Do you believe in salvation through belief in the blood sacrifice of Christ? Thanks.
Again, you do not understand Buddhism. There is no rule that one must give up or discard any previous beliefs. Christians, Hindus, Muslims and all others are welcome. There is no inherent lie because Buddhism doesn't teach that it is the way to salvation or the way to heaven. The teaching is a way to end suffering by understanding suffering and alleviation of suffering for all sentient beings. This teaching can also be found in the Bible. Buddhism offers a path, not the only path and not a path to assist people in a quest for security in the aferlife, but rather to assist them to live right here and right now. This would surely help many Christians to follow the teachings of the Sermon on the Mount. That is all about living in this life, not the afterlife. Lib, you keep referring to "your life" and "your eternal salvation" and "your mission" but I'm not so concerned for the self as you are. There were twelve diciples all seeing the world quite differently, but still offering the same message. So, I don't expect all of us to agree on anything, especially religion. Within the Sermon on the Mount, you will find many Buddhist teachings. For instance, "But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecut you...For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? When you claim that you do not care about others who are not Christian in the way that you perceive Christian to be, you are not abiding by the teaching of Christ spoken in his own words. Love is the fulfilling of the law, Lib. I think a deeper inate flaw of humans is not so much sin as the inability to love. This is the true battle within the spirit, IMHO.
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestAs FDR told us, "If anything happens, it is not an accident."
#17. To: Brian S (#0)
Christianity Is Plummeting In America, While The Number Of Non-Believers Is Skyrocketing
#18. To: Prefrontal Vortex (#15)
Black muslim separatist? Yes, I disagree. I don't think Malcolm X would have thought much of Obama. O's church is closer to Jewish Marxism.
#19. To: abraxas (#17)
Try and find a Christain who actually lives by the sermon on the mount.
#20. To: Liberator (#19)
You mean you not only expect a second Jesus, but millions of Jesuses?
#21. To: Brian S (#0)
#22. To: abraxas (#20)
there is only one Jesus delivering the sermon. Do you know any Christains who abide by it? I know a few.....but they call themselves Buddhists.
#23. To: Liberator (#22)
Hey Teach - Are you giving points for 90%-95% or FAILING your students
#24. To: abraxas (#23)
Hang out with some mindful Buddhists and you will find that people CAN abide, without a bunch of excuses.....
#25. To: abraxas (#23)
I've yet to find a handful of Christains at 90%. Granted, what is asked is not easy, but the sermon is really is what it means to be Christain in a nutshell.
#26. To: sizzlerguy (#24)
Om Mani Padme Hum
#27. To: sizzlerguy (#24)
Life is what you make it.
#28. To: sizzlerguy (#24)
No hocus pocus, no promises of an afterlife,
#29. To: abraxas (#27)
Depok Chopra
#30. To: sizzlerguy (#24)
Om Mani Padme Hum
#31. To: abraxas (#27)
I think all faiths could benefit from the teachings on controling emotions, living in the moment, learning discipline and taking responsibility.
#32. To: Liberator (#25)
If anyone actually did make it, there'd be no reason for a Savior, would there? They'd then be sinless and thus "Perfect." And don't tell me ANY Buddhist is perfect.
#33. To: abraxas (#27)
Which life story?
#34. To: Liberator (#31)
The Bible already addresses ALL of the above.
#35. To: abraxas (#32)
Buddhism isn't about seeking perfection and, honestly, neither is Christianity. Both are paths to mindful existence, love and compassion.
#36. To: Brian S (#0)
Christianity Is Plummeting In America, While The Number Of Non-Believers Is Skyrocketing
#37. To: Liberator (#35)
Yes, I DO fear facing God...and having Him open up that Big Book on Judgment Day...and coming up short. But I DO hunger for His approval, His Redemption, His glory. Forever is a loooong time - I'd rather be in heaven than gone fishin.
#38. To: Brian S (#0)
#39. To: abraxas (#27)
Buddhism is more of a philosophy of life than a religion, IMO
#40. To: Hayek Fan (#38)
If God wanted me to worship him,
#41. To: tom007 (#39)
I do not count B as a religion, that's me tho, no structure, no mention of a deity.
#42. To: abraxas (#41)
#43. To: abraxas (#41)
long felt that Buddhism would be helpful in tandem with other faiths.
#44. To: tom007 (#42)
I am OK with that and agree with it - sure you know B has many incarnations, Tebetian etc. It to me seems to be a road map not a destination, as C and Islam are.
#45. To: sizzlerguy (#43)
And it's time to take a "Vow of Silence" for the night.
#46. To: abraxas (#44)
What do you think the destination for C and Islam are? Just heaven and not purification of the spirit? Sometimes, I think that is the goal of many in the flock, but, personally, I think they are missing the point entirely.
#47. To: abraxas (#44)
#48. To: tom007 (#46)
They (Islam I am rudely aquainted with) seems to be a centralizing doctrine as a way to achieve heaven.
#49. To: abraxas (#48)
I've come to the conclusion that this is the dark side of organized religion, using it to control the masses through fear and submission.
#50. To: Liberator (#8)
Are you a JW? And which "work" is that exactly?
#51. To: richard9151 (#2)
#52. To: abraxas (#34)
I've found it [Bible addressing living] there, but rarely do I find Christians living by the book. In Buddhism it's all laid out numerically, perhaps to help people apply the knowledge from day to day.
#53. To: abraxas (#37)
Good post, Lib.
#54. To: richard9151 (#50)
#55. To: Liberator (#52)
Again - Buddhism may be a good coping device for dealing with the frailties of mortal life, but there IS something beyond nothingless and numbness of the soul - why accept a Lie that The Almighty did not provide the road to Eternal Salvation? IF you believe in a Reason, if you believe in Logic, if you believe in the Prophecies and you believe in Christ's own words - keep-your-eyes-on-the-ultimate-Grand-Prize. Fugetabout "Religion."
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