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Title: Christianity Is Plummeting In America, While The Number Of Non-Believers Is Skyrocketing
Source:
Associated Press
URL Source: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2009 ... ler-christians-americans-gone/
Published: Sep 29, 2009
Author: Bruce Feiler
Post Date: 2009-09-29 15:56:27 by Brian S
Keywords: None
Views: 1847
Comments: 102
A shocking new study of Americans’ religious beliefs shows the beginnings of a major realignment in Americans’ relationship with God. The American Religious Identification Survey (ARIS) reveals that Protestants now represent half of all Americans, down almost 20 percent in the last twenty years. In the coming months, America will become a minority Protestant nation for the first time since the pilgrims. The number of people who claim no religious affiliation, meanwhile, has doubled since 1990 to fifteen percent, its highest point in history. Non-believers now represent the third-highest group of Americans, after Catholics and Baptists. Other headlines: 1) The number of Christians has declined 12% since 1990, and is now 76%, the lowest percentage in American history. 2) The growth of non-believers has come largely from men. Twenty percent of men express no religious affiliation; 12% of women. 3) Young people are fleeing faith. Nearly a quarter of Americans in their 20’s profess no organized religion. 4) But these non-believers are not particularly atheist. That number hasn’t budged and stands at less than 1 percent. (Agnostics are similarly less than 1 percent.) Instead, these individuals have a belief in God but no interest in organized religion, or they believe in a personal God but not in a formal faith tradition. The implications for American society are profound. Americans’ relationship with God, which drove many of the country’s great transformations from the pilgrims to the founding fathers, the Civil War to the civil rights movement, is still intact. Eighty-two percent of Americans believe in God or a higher power. But at the same time, the study offers yet another wake-up call for religious institutions. First, catering to older believers is a recipe for failure; younger Americans are tuning out. Second, Americans are interested in God, but they don’t think existing institutions are helping them draw closer to God. Finally, Americans’ interest in religion has not always been stable. It dipped following the Revolution and again following Civil War. In both cases it rebounded because religious institutions adapted and found new ways of relating to everyday Americans. Today, the rise of disaffection is so powerful that different denominations needs to band together to find a shared language of God that can move beyond the fading divisions of the past and begin moving toward a partnership of different-but-equal traditions. Or risk becoming Europe, where religion is fast becoming an afterthought.
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#53. To: abraxas (#37)
I'll leave you with Timithy, i, 7: God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. : ) Oh, and from the Sermon on the Mount: Let your light shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. All works are done, not to glorify the self or for future rewards of heaven, nor out of fear, but rather, to glorify Him, which is why I view love as the only real mechanism that changes anything, especially the human heart. Thanks... Beautiful tract...YOU get it. Keep your eye on THE prize, Brax.
Whereas I admire your devotion to God and your spirituality, as a Christian, there are troubling questions about JWs... Do you believe you are the only true church on earth? Do you believe in the deity of Jesus Christ? His resurrection? Do you believe in salvation through belief in the blood sacrifice of Christ? Thanks.
Again, you do not understand Buddhism. There is no rule that one must give up or discard any previous beliefs. Christians, Hindus, Muslims and all others are welcome. There is no inherent lie because Buddhism doesn't teach that it is the way to salvation or the way to heaven. The teaching is a way to end suffering by understanding suffering and alleviation of suffering for all sentient beings. This teaching can also be found in the Bible. Buddhism offers a path, not the only path and not a path to assist people in a quest for security in the aferlife, but rather to assist them to live right here and right now. This would surely help many Christians to follow the teachings of the Sermon on the Mount. That is all about living in this life, not the afterlife. Lib, you keep referring to "your life" and "your eternal salvation" and "your mission" but I'm not so concerned for the self as you are. There were twelve diciples all seeing the world quite differently, but still offering the same message. So, I don't expect all of us to agree on anything, especially religion. Within the Sermon on the Mount, you will find many Buddhist teachings. For instance, "But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecut you...For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? When you claim that you do not care about others who are not Christian in the way that you perceive Christian to be, you are not abiding by the teaching of Christ spoken in his own words. Love is the fulfilling of the law, Lib. I think a deeper inate flaw of humans is not so much sin as the inability to love. This is the true battle within the spirit, IMHO.
This is the crux, Brax... We have only one Master. One Way. One Truth. If we get sidetracked to an alternative "truth," we are lost - at least in the context of what's commanded of us Biblically. Lib, you keep referring to "your life" and "your eternal salvation" and "your mission" but I'm not so concerned for the self as you are. There were twelve diciples all seeing the world quite differently, but still offering the same message. So, I don't expect all of us to agree on anything, especially religion. Fair enough, but that message to and from the Disciples wasn't about "religion." It was about maintaining inspiration, hope and focus on the Truth and the Good News - aka Christ's Gospel for everlasting life. Within the Sermon on the Mount, you will find many Buddhist teachings. For instance, "But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecut you...For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? Yes, and that is to be respected undoubtedly... But if God had a reason for this life (and if He's God he indeed does), and Justice and Reward, he's addressed it with His path and plan for salvation and Heaven. ANY distraction (including Buddhism) derails us. When you claim that you do not care about others who are not Christian in the way that you perceive Christian to be, you are not abiding by the teaching of Christ spoken in his own words. Love is the fulfilling of the law, Lib. I think a deeper inate flaw of humans is not so much sin as the inability to love. This is the true battle within the spirit, IMHO. I respect what you have to say... I DO care about others who are not Christian. We are commanded to love even out enemies. Do I fall short? Yes. I am a sinner. The Law is never properly fulfilled. With respect to "loving" our fellow human beings, it forever has been an obvious problem and a battle for EVERYONE, hasn't it? Sometime the best we have to offer is in not hating them unfortunately. You are right when you mention the "battle within the spirit" - it's a 24/7 thing between the Holy Spirit and Satan. One want to devour our souls, the other save it. Free Will makes victory in this spiritual battle solely our own decision. NOT the responsibility of any singular "religion," Priest, Pastor, Imam, Rabbi, or Monk.
I've been buying Buddhist items from a very reliable http://www.ebay.com seller in Nepal. He describes the "powers" of each item in the listing, and ships almost everything insured and with signiture delivery. I can't get his link to work here, but just do a search for "ebay seller yoga* guru" and you'll find 'em.
99.9% positive feedback! Interesting store... It appears the Buddhists are gonna give Catholics a run for their money with respect to "magical" beads, charms, statues and trinkets.
That's the message of Buddhism too and, like I've said, it's not a religion so much as a philosophy that applies to any life, no matter the religion. It is the everyday practice of taming the ego, nurturing compassion and becoming the inspiration that you seek from Christianity or any other religion. If you read the Dhammapada with a comparative analysis to the Sermon on the Mount, the similarities are quite striking, each is the "nutshell" of the doctrine. I have to disagree that training yourself to become the most compassionate and aware being from moment to moment is a distraction to the teachings of any religion, in fact, I would argue that this would be of great benefit. We agree on the battle. All I'm sharing is that Buddhism offers many tools and practices to win the battle(s). You look at it as an alternative teaching, but really it should be viewed as a tandem teaching. One could argue that the Sermon on the Mount offers this in a nutshell as well, but I am always perplexed that Christians, for the most part, do not partake in the day to day practice of the teaching. One can only change their ways with diligence and discipline, from moment to moment. If one simply says, "I'm a sinner and have this repent loop-hole, so I can fall back on this crutch," that doesn't evoke the necessary changes to live as commanded by any religious docrine. For the record, Buddhism is all about free-will, taking responsibility for our actions and the impact of our actions on others. It is very easy to love selectively, but it is another story to look upon your enemy as your teacher and a blessing because they reveal your own shortcomings. It's like learning the secret of suffering, that it is truly the spiritual shaping necessary for humans to break down the ego. Even today, many Christians view loss or death as "God's will" rather than their blessing to appreciate people in their lives for the time they are with them and the impact they make. You mention Satan. I wonder how much Satan really has to do when humans are so inclined to self-destruction and live only for their own ego gratification, instead of working to be of service to all those around them. It seems that Satan is often used to take the place of responsibility for free will. That ol' "The devil made me do it" scenario.
Do you believe you are the only true church on earth? Do you believe in the deity of Jesus Christ? His resurrection? Do you believe in salvation through belief in the blood sacrifice of Christ? What troubling questions? Since you have only answers supplied by others, and not by JWs, why is anything troubling? When I have questions, I do not ask those who hate or are not directly involved in what I want to know; I go right to the source. I did, and ended up a Witness..... for Jehovah. Let me ask you a question; can you join the Jehovah's Witnesses? And, let me answer the question for you; no, you can not. Why? Because there is nothing to join. So here you have your first answer; they are not a 'church,' so how could they be the only true church on earth? Explain deity to me, so that I understand your question correctly. If you mean, do we believe that Jesus Christ is the only-begotton son of God, and that he is a Mighty God (as one of many titles he carries), we certainly do, and this is extremely clear in the Bible. However, if you mean to say that Jesus Christ is the equal of/same as his Father, then we certainly do not, as Jesus Christ plainly stated in many different ways in the Bible. As to the resurrection, we absolute accept it, and understand its purpose and use in the promises made to us by Jehovah God; the resurrection of all men to life on this earth in a paradise. AFTER.... judgement is made upon those who will not accept the terms and conditions of the blessings offered by Jehovah God, including living in peace and harmoney and love. As to the rest, as is plainly stated by Jesus himself; he is the way. No one comes to the Father except through him. John 14;6 Jesus said to him: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. However, we do not use one verse for anything. Everything in the Bible has to be taken into consideration when you decide what each verse means, so there is much more to this. But to learn that requries a commitment to study of the Bible, which is what separates Jehovah's Witnesses from all other people. We actually do the studies, daily.
1 John 4;8 He that does not love has not come to know God, because God is love. : Matthew 22:39 ...‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.”
LOL!! Excellent comment! AND; very accurate. It always amazes me the number of people who accept what is promoted.... anyone who goes back to the source of Buddism would find out that it is not a religion at all. Course, I have trouble giving serious consideration to anything that starts off by describing the earth as a tableland carried on the backs of giant elephants, standing on a giant turtle, which is on a giant snake (?) floating on an ocean? I may have part of the wrong, but you get the idea!!
1 John 4;8 He that does not love has not come to know God, because God is love. : Matthew 22:39 ...‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.”
Buddhism better integrates a person's mind and body (which is why there is yoga.) And it is ar more self empowering then the sort of religious fare you are in to. It involves aspiring to a higher level of consciousness. Which of course is frightening to the leaders of any Christian or Muslim sect, as conformity and control is the central notion of a faith like yours'. As for the metaphorical imagery you criticize, do I really need to dig out some of the crazy sounding examples of Bible blather to show you that you are a hypocrite to criticize that faith by denigrating story elements of Buddhist teachings? You know, faith doesn't just have to be into the notion that there is some sort of head honcho god with a nail him up son at his side. It can also involve aspirations of the elevation of one's soul and spirit to a higher level of being. I am not Buddhist, but I like thee teachings and focus, a heck of allot more then that which are the central notions and teachings of a faith like you are into.
Mike, since you have absolutely no clue as to what the teachings of my faith is, your comments are just plain silly. The only things you have to go by is what you have heard from the so-called mainstream of Christendom, nearly all of which is in error. Which explains why I quit that form of Christianity many, many years ago, and was fortunate enough to finally find people who could teach me how to understand the Bible -- for the first time in my life. You will never do that, so you will live in blindness. Which is a proper perspective from which to appreciate Buddism.
1 John 4;8 He that does not love has not come to know God, because God is love. : Matthew 22:39 ...‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.”
catholic.com has some interesting stuff. If this is accurate the Witnesses believe that Jesus is not divine. There is more, but any real Christian would recoil in horror at that alone.
COMRADE! Why are you not showing your Party affiliation and showing proper respect for Dear Leader? Put your Barackstika armband on RIGHT NOW!
I know that you major fail to understand Buddhism so bad you couldn't even spell it right. Never mind understanding it seeks a level of enlightenment great enough to end the suffering of people by transcending the cycle of suffering and re-incarnation. I mean, you thinly condemn a faith with no understanding, which is a syndrome of a dangerously high level of narrow mindedness. As for your beliefs, I lurked your threads and read many of your posts and have a good idea of how your sect is different then most Christianity. But you are narrow minded, so don't welcome hearing this, which is not a surprise.
And you will never know, because you only listen to those who have something to gain from their lies. After all, it is much better to listen to men than to Almighty God.
1 John 4;8 He that does not love has not come to know God, because God is love. : Matthew 22:39 ...‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.”
I always believed that if God would throw away good people, just for not believing in Jesus, then he's not much of a loving God is he? I've debated religion with everyone at some point, and I've come to the conclusion that organized religions across the boards are an absolute scam, and a control mechanism. I'll wait and see what happens, and should God show up to welcome me, Great. If not, well then I guess I won't have anything to disappoint me now will I?
Better to be hated for what you are, than loved for what you are not.
LOL! That is funny! As if there is something that I could not understand if I decided to pursue it. Quite frankly, I do not care to understand it, and could care less if I spell it correctly or not. In the beginning, it was not a religion, and the Budda (Siddhartha Gautama) never claimed it as such. It was only later, as men found a way to profit from it, that it became a 'religion.' Buddhism is a major religion in Asia. It is primarily a belief in a method of achieving liberation from suffering. This method was formulated around 600 BC by a man referred to as the Buddha. As such, it has no solution to the problems on this earth, just as Christendom does not. It is also a new comer to the stage of religion on earth. Christendom, of course, being still newer, from around the year 350 C.E. Actually, those who follow Buddhism are no different from those who follow the Veda (Hinduism). The original Veda was written as a search for God; now, it is considered to be from some god. Shows how little people actually understand.
1 John 4;8 He that does not love has not come to know God, because God is love. : Matthew 22:39 ...‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.”
Oh so true. I learned long ago, from a relative who was a habitual liar that speaking the "truth" is much more simple than trying to lie thru life. This cousin of mine (deceased, contracted cancer in prison after killing someone in a car wreck while drunk) absolutely couldn't tell the simple truth about anything. I never said anything about it to him, but he had a lot of trouble trying to keep track of his constant lies. From the day he arrived in my town, I knew that I NEVER wanted to be like him.
And who claims that He does throw away good people? Oh, right, those who claim to have a secret way of 'saving' you; just put your money in the plate, and we will clear a path to heaven for you. How silly that people believe such nonsense, instead of actually doing the work neccessary to understand. Ever heard of the resurrection? Of course not, cause just cause it is a major feature of the Bible, well, Christendom does not teach it, so must not exist, right? And it does not matter that there are 9 resurrections in the Bible to prove to all that it is true, but what the hey. The major lesson of the Bible, Tommy dear, is that ALL people who have lived since the time of Adam and Eve, will be resurrected from the common grave of mankind and afforded the opportunity to learn the Truth about Almighty God, BEFORE they are judged for their actions AFTER their resurrection. After all, as the Bible clearly teaches, those who have died have paid the price for their sins, and will be resurrected free of sin. Course, such Bible Truths sure poke a big hole in the ability of 'churches' to collect for salvation.
1 John 4;8 He that does not love has not come to know God, because God is love. : Matthew 22:39 ...‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.”
Live for today. Don't rely on anything else after you're dead.
That's why I checked it against the Watchtower and found it credible. So, Jesus is just an Archangel per the Watchtower Society. Odd that.
COMRADE! Why are you not showing your Party affiliation and showing proper respect for Dear Leader? Put your Barackstika armband on RIGHT NOW!
Amen!
That verse got me through a very tough time in my life.
This is a good thing, imo. i agree--emphasis on individuals.
"This Act (the Federal Reserve Act, Dec. 23rd 1913) establishes the most gigantic trust on earth. When the President (Woodrow Wilson) signs the Bill, the invisible government of the Monetary Power will be legalised... The worst legislative crime of the ages is perpetrated by this banking and currency Bill."--Charles Lindbergh, Sr.
Dammit, you genuine believers make it *SO* hard to post my Zombie Jesus posters. (and there are a couple that crack me up...) It'd make me seem almost inconsiderate. :)
LOL!! You are funny. As I said, it is amazing when you listen only to those who gain from your foolishness. I have even posted in this thread about Jesus Christ, the only-begotton son of God, but of course, what the catholics write is so much more important..... like about the crusades (OHHH! Much like today!!) and the millions they killed over the Reformation not to mention their help in bringing Hitler to power and, of course, the many, many priests and their abuse of children, esp. young boys. Oh, by-the-way, here are two Bible quotes -- after you read them, fill me in once more about catholic theology; 1 Timothy 4:1 However, the inspired utterance says definitely that in later periods of time some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired utterances and teachings of demons, 2 by the hypocrisy of men who speak lies, marked in their conscience as with a branding iron; 3 forbidding to marry, commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be partaken of with thanksgiving by those who have faith and accurately know the truth. Did you get that? Teaching of demons -- teaching forbidding to marry. Clear on that, and how it relates to the abuse of children by men who have been forbidden to marry? What, specifically, does the Bible say about marriage? 1 Timothy 3:12 Let ministerial servants be husbands of one wife, presiding in a fine manner over children and their own households. 13 For the men who minister in a fine manner are acquiring for themselves a fine standing and great freeness of speech in the faith in connection with Christ Jesus. Please tell me something, how is it that men who have no knowledge of families can teach others how to manage families correctly.... or does this somehow have something to do with the rate of divorce in catholic marriages.... which is the same as or greater than the average divorce rates world wide? By-the-way, divorce rates amoung the Witnesses for Jehovah are less than 1%....... Oh, and one more Bible fact; Mattew 7:15 Be on the watch for the false prophets that come to YOU in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. 16 By their fruits YOU will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? 17 Likewise every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit; 18 a good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, neither can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. 19 Every tree not producing fine fruit gets cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Really, then, by their fruits YOU will recognize those [men]. Ever heard of this particular Bible point? By their fruits you shall know them? What does that mean about the rest of their teachings? Now, want me to tell you what I have learned about how the Witnesses for Jehovah live according to what they learn from the Bible -- daily? Then, you want to continue this discussion?
1 John 4;8 He that does not love has not come to know God, because God is love. : Matthew 22:39 ...‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.”
Yes, you are correct, EXCEPT, I live among and congregate with people who live by the Bible in their daily lives. I see the fruitage, and enjoy it, daily, in my associations with my brothers and sisters in the faith as preached by Jesus Christ. Perhaps you should listen to the facts instead of the lies of the world and look into it... if, indeed, you are truly interested in Bible Truths and people who accept them and live by them.
1 John 4;8 He that does not love has not come to know God, because God is love. : Matthew 22:39 ...‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.”
How completely silly; so you are for grab whatever you can get for we party today and die tomorrow, and their is no reason for anyone to live a clean life. You have accurately stated what is wrong with the world today, so enjoy the filth that you willingly promote and live in.
1 John 4;8 He that does not love has not come to know God, because God is love. : Matthew 22:39 ...‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.”
i agree--emphasis on individuals. How sad. You just described the Jehovah's Witnesses, but you have no clue.
1 John 4;8 He that does not love has not come to know God, because God is love. : Matthew 22:39 ...‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.”
Tom, you should know better than that. The point is not the worship of Almighty God, it is the need for guidance to do away with the evil of men who have no desire to be guided to peace and love. Which is what created the original problem on earth, and in heaven. There is only one solution, and we have no control over it; simply control over ourselves and our acceptance, or rejection, of such guidance. As the Bible clearly points out. That solution, by-the-way, is very, very close.
1 John 4;8 He that does not love has not come to know God, because God is love. : Matthew 22:39 ...‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.”
Oh, geez, richard, do you want to get into a discussion about Joseph Rutherford? I know many JW's. Many are kind and good people. However, one need only scratch the surface of Rutherford to question "the facts" and the "lies of the world" that you speak of. How can you people think that Rutherford was some sort of prophet? Have you forgotten his "fishing" expeditions to lure young girls to have sex? Rutherford has had a history of opposition for Bible scholars. Wasn't the Bible good enough in the first place? Why the need to make revisions?
LOL
You're arguing the Bible, not JW theology. Once you start getting into what the Watchtower Society says, and you will, then you'll start to see what I mean.
COMRADE! Why are you not showing your Party affiliation and showing proper respect for Dear Leader? Put your Barackstika armband on RIGHT NOW!
So rather than do your own research, you will depend upon lies dreamed up by those who hate the Truth, right? How can you people think that Rutherford was some sort of prophet? Rutherford is not and never has been considered a prophet. Never. Many Witnesses have no idea even as to who he was. I did not know anything about him until people started to throw him in my face. In fact, many of the things he talked about where just beginnings, and were changed as the knowledge and understanding of the Bible continued to grow amoung the Witnesses. Just as today, most have no idea who is president of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. Have you forgotten his "fishing" expeditions to lure young girls to have sex? Says who? Where are the police reports on this? What I do know, despite all of the lies told about him, is that he devoted the entirety of his considerable fortune to the study of the Bible --- and their is one more thing I know about what he started; the fruitage of his work. I live among those who study the Bible daily, and live as best they can according to what is taught in the Bible. For one example, the divorce rate among Witnesses is less than one percent. For another example, many, many businesses look to hire Witnesses because of their known honesty and dilgence inperforming their work. THAT, is what I know about Rutherford; the fruitage of what he started. Show me someone who has done better over the last 150 years, and then talk more about how evil he was, and if you can not do so, then shut up about him, and study the facts instead of the lies. Wasn't the Bible good enough in the first place? Why the need to make revisions? What revisions? Please, inform me. As I have stated numerous times, I have 12 different translations of the Bible; I have compared them to the New World Translation of the Bible. Very, very few differences, but much, much clearer. Also, I posted all of the info about the book written by a NON-Witnesses, a professor of languages from Norhtern Arizona University, where he plainly states that the New World Translation of the Bible is the MOST ACCURATE TRANSLATION IN ENGLISH AVAILABLE TODAY. You can order a copy of his book and check it out for yourself, if you wish. I will take this a step further; 1 Timothy 7:15 Be on the watch for the false prophets that come to YOU in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. 16 By their fruits YOU will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? 17 Likewise every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit; 18 a good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, neither can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. 19 Every tree not producing fine fruit gets cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Really, then, by their fruits YOU will recognize those [men]. Look carefully at the world around you. Very, very carefully. Look also very, very carefully at those nations dominated by what you consider to be Christian; Europe and the United States, and then tell me about their fruitage. Tell me, carefully, about homosexual marriages, about praticing homosexuals now preaching in nearly every so-called christian religion, about the abuse of young children by catholic priests -- and the rest of the problems within the cathoplic church -- go ahead, tell me all about their furitage. And I will put the fruitage of what Rutherford started up against any of them. Any day of the week. By their fruits YOU will recognize them. Pretty clear message to me.
1 John 4;8 He that does not love has not come to know God, because God is love. : Matthew 22:39 ...‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.”
Hey Richard. Just so you understand, you're not talking to a 10 year old who hasn't lived. You know where the whole Christian Belief System Started??? Zoroastrianism. Exactly the same. Let me know when that sets in, and then we'll talk about my own death and resurrection.
Better to be hated for what you are, than loved for what you are not.
You are so foolish. There is no JW theology. There is only the Bible. Everything we do, which is why I am a Jehovah's Witnesses, is based ONLY on the Bible. There is no theology. We never base anything on just one verse, or, just one thought. Everything is backed up in the Bible. THAT... is why this is so; 1 Timothy 7:15 Be on the watch for the false prophets that come to YOU in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. 16 By their fruits YOU will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? 17 Likewise every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit; 18 a good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, neither can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. 19 Every tree not producing fine fruit gets cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Really, then, by their fruits YOU will recognize those [men]. By their fruits YOU will recognize them. I will put the fruitage of the Jehovah's Witnesses up against anyone, anywhere, anytime. Why? Because they are the only people in the world who actually do live according to what they learn from the Bible. THAT IS WHY I AM WITH THEM. Now, here is another point that people like you miss; you do not join the Witnesses. Why? Because there is nothing to join. You become a Witness. That is all there is to it. Nobody checks on you; nobody does a roll call. Know what else? No man, anywhere, has a list of who is a Jehovah's Witness. And, we have no head here on this earth. Neat, huh?
1 John 4;8 He that does not love has not come to know God, because God is love. : Matthew 22:39 ...‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.”
Exactly the same. Not hardly. And since you do not have a clue as to what the Bible really teaches, how would you know? This coming from someone who also had no clue, until I was taught how to correctly study the Bible... after reading it for 25 years or so.
1 John 4;8 He that does not love has not come to know God, because God is love. : Matthew 22:39 ...‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.”
Wow, I guess my class in theology in college were a complete waste Richard. When your God leaves you behind because he thinks you're too much of a pompous ass, let me know how it feels.
Better to be hated for what you are, than loved for what you are not.
I enjoy the way TommyTheMadArtist communicates, whether he's talkin' gold or religion, he's rite on point.
Look, Richard, I've extensively investigated this church. At one time I dated a wonderful man who wanted to get married......if only I would convert. No conversion was forthcoming. You are more defensive than objective re: the history of JW's. Don Adams is the current president of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. Yes, revision, such as inserting the name Jehovah 237 times in the New Testement, translation of certain texts are also biased to JW practices and doctrines. Richard, you make silly claims that others are "foolish" in their interpretation of the Bible and arrogantly claim that only you and your church are the "true" Christianity. The entire theocratic ogranization within the JW's is to control all aspects of JW's lives, using guilt and manipulation to hold sway over those who question the doctrines. Frankly, I find the entire notion of "disfellowship" over questioning the organization and doctrines patently NON-CHRISTIAN. Yes, "By THEIR fruits you will recognize them." And I do.
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestGood post, Lib.
#54. To: richard9151 (#50)
#55. To: Liberator (#52)
Again - Buddhism may be a good coping device for dealing with the frailties of mortal life, but there IS something beyond nothingless and numbness of the soul - why accept a Lie that The Almighty did not provide the road to Eternal Salvation? IF you believe in a Reason, if you believe in Logic, if you believe in the Prophecies and you believe in Christ's own words - keep-your-eyes-on-the-ultimate-Grand-Prize. Fugetabout "Religion."
#56. To: abraxas (#55)
Again, you do not understand Buddhism. There is no rule that one must give up or discard any previous beliefs. Christians, Hindus, Muslims and all others are welcome. There is no inherent lie because Buddhism doesn't teach that it is the way to salvation or the way to heaven.
#57. To: Liberator (#54)
(Edited)
understand Buddhism
#58. To: sizzlerguy (#57)
I've been buying Buddhist items from a very reliable http://www.ebay.com seller in Nepal. He describes the "powers" of each item in the listing, and ships almost everything insured and with signiture delivery.
#59. To: Liberator (#56)
Fair enough, but that message to and from the Disciples wasn't about "religion." It was about maintaining inspiration, hope and focus on the Truth and the Good News - aka Christ's Gospel for everlasting life.
#60. To: Liberator (#54)
Whereas I admire your devotion to God and your spirituality, as a Christian, there are troubling questions about JWs...
#61. To: Liberator (#58)
It appears the Buddhists are gonna give Catholics a run for their money with respect to "magical" beads, charms, statues and trinkets.
#62. To: richard9151 (#61)
#63. To: Ferret Mike (#62)
I am not Buddhist, but I like thee teachings and focus, a heck of allot more then that which are the central notions and teachings of a faith like you are into.
#64. To: richard9151 (#63)
you have absolutely no clue as to what the teachings of my faith is
#65. To: richard9151 (#63)
#66. To: mirage (#64)
If this is accurate
#67. To: Ferret Mike (#65)
#68. To: Ferret Mike (#65)
fail to understand Buddhism so bad you couldn't even spell it right.
#69. To: abraxas (#59)
(Edited)
look upon your enemy as your teacher and a blessing because they reveal your own shortcomings.
#70. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#67)
I always believed that if God would throw away good people,
#71. To: richard9151 (#70)
(Edited)
#72. To: richard9151 (#66)
After all, it is much better to listen to men than to Almighty God.
#73. To: abraxas (#17)
This is not surprising. Try and find a Christain who actually lives by the sermon on the mount. Hypocricy is rampant. It's do as I say, not as I do. This land may be filled with sheep, but even the sheep aren't falling for the dogma of hypocricy. Honestly, if this were truly a Christain nation we wouldn't have 37 million people on food stamps or half a million homeless vets on the streets or one million homeless students in our schools.
#74. To: abraxas (#37)
I'll leave you with Timithy, i, 7: God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. : )
#75. To: Lod (#9)
Instead, these individuals have a belief in God but no interest in organized religion, or they believe in a personal God but not in a formal faith tradition.
#76. To: lucysmom (#74)
(Edited)
#77. To: mirage (#72)
So, Jesus is just an Archangel per the Watchtower Society. Odd that.
#78. To: lucysmom, abraxas (#73)
This is not surprising. Try and find a Christain who actually lives by the sermon on the mount.
#79. To: sizzlerguy (#71)
Live for today. Don't rely on anything else after you're dead.
#80. To: christine, Lod (#75)
Instead, these individuals have a belief in God but no interest in organized religion, or they believe in a personal God but not in a formal faith tradition.
#81. To: tom007 (#40)
If one is all powerful, why should "he" care if anyone worships him?
#82. To: richard9151 (#78)
#83. To: richard9151 (#79)
#84. To: richard9151 (#77)
#85. To: abraxas (#82)
I know many JW's. Many are kind and good people. However, one need only scratch the surface of Rutherford to question "the facts" and the "lies of the world" that you speak of. How can you people think that Rutherford was some sort of prophet? Have you forgotten his "fishing" expeditions to lure young girls to have sex? Rutherford has had a history of opposition for Bible scholars. Wasn't the Bible good enough in the first place? Why the need to make revisions?
#86. To: richard9151 (#70)
#87. To: mirage (#84)
You're arguing the Bible, not JW theology. Once you start getting into what the Watchtower Society says, and you will, then you'll start to see what I mean.
#88. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#86)
Zoroastrianism.
#89. To: richard9151 (#88)
#90. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#89)
#91. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#89)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOErZuzZpS8
#92. To: richard9151 (#85)
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