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Dead Constitution
See other Dead Constitution Articles

Title: Justices to Decide if State Gun Laws Violate Rights
Source: Washington Post
URL Source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy ... 009/09/30/AR2009093001723.html
Published: Oct 1, 2009
Author: Robert Barnes
Post Date: 2009-09-30 23:55:21 by buckeroo
Keywords: None
Views: 126
Comments: 8

Justices to Decide if State Gun Laws Violate Rights Court, Which Reversed D.C. Ban, Will Look to Local Level in 2nd Amendment Case

By Robert Barnes Washington Post Staff Writer Thursday, October 1, 2009

The Supreme Court set up a historic decision on gun control Wednesday, saying it will rule on whether restrictive state and local laws violate the Second Amendment right to gun ownership that it recognized last year.

The landmark 2008 decision to strike down the District of Columbia's ban on handgun possession was the first time the court had said the amendment grants an individual right to own a gun for self-defense. But the 5 to 4 opinion in District of Columbia v. Heller did not address the question of whether the Second Amendment extends beyond the federal government and federal enclaves such as Washington.

Most court observers say they think that the five justices who recognized the individual right will also find that the Second Amendment applies to state and local governments, a move that could spark challenges of state and local laws governing gun registration, how and when the weapons can be carried, and storage requirements.

The court will hear a challenge of handgun laws in Chicago and the neighboring village of Oak Park, Ill. It was filed by Alexandria lawyer Alan Gura, who successfully argued the Heller case. He said the Chicago ban is "identical" to the one found unconstitutional in the District.

The announcement came as the court prepared for its new term, which will officially begin on Monday. Justices sifted through more than 2,000 petitions accumulated through the summer and selected 10 to hear.

Also on the list was an examination of an anti-terrorism statute, widely used by federal prosecutors, that bans material support to groups that the State Department designates as terrorist organizations.

Solicitor General Elena Kagan told the court that the law is a "vital part of the nation's effort to fight international terrorism," but a lower court said some of the statute was unconstitutionally vague.

The decision to accept the Chicago gun case was a natural progression from the decision in

Heller, which split the court on ideological grounds. The liberal justices said the Second Amendment guaranteed only a collective right for gun ownership to maintain militias.

If the amendment is extended, the next question will be about the kind of restrictions allowed. The Heller opinion by Justice Antonin Scalia said some requirements would be constitutional, but it was not specific.

Gura hopes for a "definitive ruling" on Chicago's restrictions and said he thinks that at a minimum the court would strike the same kind of handgun ban it found objectionable in Washington. ad_icon

But gun-control advocates played down the importance of the case, saying few states or municipalities had such restrictive laws. Only a handful of states do not protect gun ownership in their constitutions, and 33 filed a brief advocating that the court find that the Second Amendment applies to them.

"Even if the court were to hold the Second Amendment applicable to states and localities, such a ruling is unlikely to change the crucial holding by the Supreme Court in Heller that a wide range of reasonable gun laws are presumptively constitutional, and that the Second Amendment right is narrowly limited to guns in the home for self-defense," said Paul Helmke, president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence.

The method by which the court might apply the Second Amendment is what interests constitutional scholars. The Bill of Rights originally was thought to be a restriction on the federal government, a perception furthered by a 19th-century court ruling that differentiated between state and federal rights.

Since then, the court has gradually applied most of the 10 amendments to the states in a process called "incorporation," but not the Second Amendment.

Gura is supported by liberal and conservative scholars who say the issue should be taken care of by the post-Civil War 14th Amendment, which says a state may not "abridge the privileges and immunities" of citizens nor deprive liberty "without due process of law."

Clark Neily, a senior lawyer at the conservative Institute for Justice, said in a statement: "This case is about more than guns -- it is about whether the Supreme Court should interpret the Constitution as the powerful protection of liberty it was intended to be. His organization sees the "privileges and immunities" clause as a protector of "economic liberty" and "armed self-defense."

Liberal scholars such as Doug Kendall of the Constitutional Accountability Center consider the clause an "explicit protection for substantive liberty that would reinforce the constitutional underpinnings of Roe v. Wade and the court's ruling protecting sexual autonomy for gays and lesbians."

Justice Sonia Sotomayor was part of a panel on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 2nd Circuit that said in an unrelated case that only the Supreme Court could decide whether the Second Amendment applies beyond the federal confines. Because the court accepted the case from the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 7th Circuit, she is free to participate.

The case is McDonald v. Chicago. The earliest it would be argued is Jan. 11.

The anti-terrorism case challenges part of the federal law that makes it a crime to provide material support or resources to designated terrorist groups. In this case, it was the Kurdistan Workers Party in Turkey and the Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka. The groups and individuals who challenged the law said they were aiding in lawful, nonviolent activities such as petitioning the United Nations for relief aid or trying to organize peace agreements.

The challenge says terms such as "expert advice" and "training" are too vague and describe speech rather than conduct.

But the government argues that the law is necessary to combat aid to terrorist groups. About 120 defendants have been charged with providing material support, and 60 have been convicted, the government's brief said. The case is Holder v. Humanitarian Law Project.

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#1. To: buckeroo (#0)

Justice Sonia Sotomayor was part of a panel on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 2nd Circuit that said in an unrelated case that only the Supreme Court could decide whether the Second Amendment applies beyond the federal confines.

This nation was set up to operate under separate State and Federal sovereignty.

Over time the Feds have convinced most Americans to forfeit their Republic for a socialist de-mob-ocracy. In the free Republic a poll would mean NOTHING in relationship to the law. However, today we're expected to get in line with "the majority".

The primary inducement that caused the great exodus from freedom into the slavery of socialism we "enjoy" today was the SOCIAL SECURITY system made available "after" the Banksters caused the depression of the 1930s.

The notion that a FEDERAL SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER could be REQUIRED (Title 42 USC sec 666) to obtain a STATE DRIVER LICENSE could never have happened until the FED had TOTAL SOVEREIGNTY OVER STATES.

When the private banks were given authority to issue currency and CREDIT through the federal reserve, they were given ownership of the U.S. Inc. The end of commodity backed currency gave rise to a CREDIT ONLY system of FRAUD wherein the owners of the private currency and related instruments OWN EVERYTHING.

The above short synopsis is a simple explanation to all of the Einsteins out there that make excuses for the FEDERAL (reserve bank) GOVERNMENT when it shits all over the CON-stitution.

There is NO CONSTITUTION in this FEDERAL RESERVE BANK OWNED FRAUD. Every lie they want to tell us is legal in THEIR WORLD.

Today, the same thing is being orchestrated by the banksters on an international level.

The U.S. Govt is a tyrannical butcher; U.S. taxpayers are accomplices to international murder and mayhem. If you satisfy your fears by bowing to this butcher, you forfeit your humanity and possibly your soul.

noone222  posted on  2009-10-01   5:40:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: noone222 (#1)

The notion that a FEDERAL SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER could be REQUIRED (Title 42 USC sec 666) to obtain a STATE DRIVER LICENSE could never have happened until the FED had TOTAL SOVEREIGNTY OVER STATES.

Dear noone222,

Regarding "the requirement of a SS# and a DL", what makes you believe that a Federal Licensing scheme may be imposed on "any state of the Union without violating the Separation of Powers Doctrine"? Further, what makes you believe that a SS# is mandated by Law (one must apply for a SS#.. if it were mandatory, you would simply be assigned one at birth).

Please see below for detail.

The Right to Travel- "The right to travel is an unconditional right which cannot be conditioned by the legislature." [Dunn v. Blumstein, 405 U.S. 330, 341 (1972)1

"The right of a citizen to travel upon the public highways and to transport his property thereon in the ordinary course of life and business is a common right which he has under his right to enjoy life and liberty, to acquire and possess property, and to pursue happiness and safety. It includes the right in so doing to use the ordinary and usual conveyances of the day; and under the existing modes of travel includes the right to drive a horse-drawn carriage or wagon thereon, or to operate an automobile thereon, for the usual and ordinary purposes of life and business. It is not a mere privilege, like the privilege of moving a house in the street, operating a business stand in the street, or transporting persons or property for hire along the street, which a city may permit or prohibit at will." [Thompson v. Smith, 155 Va. 367,154 SE 579 (1930)]

"The right to travel is a part of the liberty of which the citizen cannot be deprived without due process of law under the Fifth Amendment." [Kent v. Dulles, 357 U.S. 116, 125 (1958)] "The right to travel, to go from place to place as the means of transportation permit, is a natural right subject to the rights of others and to reasonable regulation under law. A restraint imposed by the Government of the United States upon this liberty, therefore, must conform with the provision of the Fifth Amendment that ‘No person shall be * * * deprived of * * * liberty * * * without due process of law’." [Schactman v. Dulles, 96 App DC 287, 225 F.2d 938, at 941]

"...For while a citizen has the right to travel upon the public highways and to transport his property thereon, that right does not extend to the use of the highways...as a place for private gain. For the latter purpose, no person has a vested right to use the highways of this state, but it is a privilege...which the (state) may grant or withhold at its discretion..." [State v. Johnson, 75 Mont. 240, 243 P. 1073 (1926)]

(2) The second group of citizens that is legally under the jurisdiction of the state are those citizens who have voluntarily and knowingly waived their right to travel unregulated and unrestricted by requesting placement under such jurisdiction through the acquisition of a state driver's license, vehicle registration, mandatory insurance, etc. (In other words, by contract.)

Warm Regards,

P.H.

“But very different considerations apply to the internal commerce or domestic trade of the States. Over this commerce and trade Congress has no power of regulation nor any direct control. This power belongs exclusively to the States. No interference by Congress with the business of citizens transacted within a State is warranted by the Constitution, except such as is strictly incidental to the exercise of powers clearly granted to the legislature. The power to authorize a business within a State is plainly repugnant to the exclusive power of the State over the same subject. It is true that the power of Congress to tax is a very extensive power. It is given in the Constitution, with only one exception and only two qualifications. Congress cannot tax exports, and it must impose direct taxes by the rule of apportionment, and indirect taxes by the rule of uniformity. Thus limited, and thus only, it reaches every subject, and may be exercised at discretion. But, it reaches only existing subjects. Congress cannot authorize [e.g. LICENSE] a trade or business within a State in order to tax it.” [License Tax Cases, 72 U.S. 462, 18 L.Ed. 497, 5 Wall. 462, 2 A.F.T.R. 2224 (1866)]

TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 2 > § 31 Prev | Next § 31. Definitions

(a) Definitions.— In this chapter, the following definitions apply: (6) Motor vehicle.— The term “motor vehicle” means every description of carriage or other contrivance propelled or drawn by mechanical power and used for commercial purposes on the highways in the transportation of passengers, passengers and property, or property or cargo. (9) State.— The term “State” means a State of the United States, the District of Columbia, and any commonwealth, territory, or possession of the United States. (10) Used for commercial purposes.— The term “used for commercial purposes” means the carriage of persons or property for any fare, fee, rate, charge or other consideration, or directly or indirectly in connection with any business, or other undertaking intended for profit.

TITLE 49 > SUBTITLE VI > PART B > CHAPTER 313 > § 31311 § 31311. Requirements for State participation

(a) General.— To avoid having amounts withheld from apportionment under section 31314 of this title, a State shall comply with the following requirements: (1) The State shall adopt and carry out a program for testing and ensuring the fitness of individuals to operate commercial motor vehicles consistent with the minimum standards prescribed by the Secretary of Transportation under section 31305 (a) of this title. (2) The State may issue a commercial driver’s license to an individual only if the individual passes written and driving tests for the operation of a commercial motor vehicle that comply with the minimum standards. (3) The State shall have in effect and enforce a law providing that an individual with a blood alcohol concentration level at or above the level established by section 31310 (a) of this title when operating a commercial motor vehicle is deemed to be driving under the influence of alcohol. (4) The State shall authorize an individual to operate a commercial motor vehicle only by issuing a commercial driver’s license containing the information described in section 31308 (3) of this title.[1] (5) At least 60 days before issuing a commercial driver’s license (or a shorter period the Secretary prescribes by regulation), the State shall notify the Secretary or the operator of the information system under section 31309 of this title, as the case may be, of the proposed issuance of the license and other information the Secretary may require to ensure identification of the individual applying for the license. (6) Before issuing a commercial driver’s license to an individual or renewing such a license, the State shall request from any other State that has issued a driver’s license to the individual all information about the driving record of the individual. (7) Not later than 30 days after issuing a commercial driver’s license, the State shall notify the Secretary or the operator of the information system under section 31309 of this title, as the case may be, of the issuance. (8) Not later than 10 days after disqualifying the holder of a commercial driver’s license from operating a commercial motor vehicle (or after revoking, suspending, or canceling the license) for at least 60 days, the State shall notify the Secretary or the operator of the information system under section 31309 of this title, as the case may be, and the State that issued the license, of the disqualification, revocation, suspension, or cancellation, and the violation that resulted in the disqualification, revocation, suspension, or cancellation shall be recorded. (9) If an individual violates a State or local law on motor vehicle traffic control (except a parking violation) and the individual— (A) has a commercial driver’s license issued by another State; or (B) is operating a commercial vehicle without a commercial driver’s license and has a driver’s license issued by another State, the State in which the violation occurred shall notify a State official designated by the issuing State of the violations not later than 10 days after the date the individual is found to have committed the violation.

(10) (A) The State may not issue a commercial driver’s license to an individual during a period in which the individual is disqualified from operating a commercial motor vehicle or the individual’s driver’s license is revoked, suspended, or canceled. (B) The State may not issue a special license or permit (including a provisional or temporary license) to an individual who holds a commercial driver’s license that permits the individual to drive a commercial motor vehicle during a period in which— (i) the individual is disqualified from operating a commercial motor vehicle; or (ii) the individual’s driver’s license is revoked, suspended, or canceled. (11) The State may issue a commercial driver’s license to an individual who has a commercial driver’s license issued by another State only if the individual first returns the driver’s license issued by the other State. (12) The State may issue a commercial driver’s license only to an individual who operates or will operate a commercial motor vehicle and is domiciled in the State, except that, under regulations the Secretary shall prescribe, the State may issue a commercial driver’s license to an individual who operates or will operate a commercial motor vehicle and is not domiciled in a State that issues commercial drivers’ licenses. (13) The State shall impose penalties consistent with this chapter that the State considers appropriate and the Secretary approves for an individual operating a commercial motor vehicle. (14) The State shall allow an individual to operate a commercial motor vehicle in the State if— (A) the individual has a commercial driver’s license issued by another State under the minimum standards prescribed by the Secretary under section 31305 (a) of this title; (B) the license is not revoked, suspended, or canceled; and (C) the individual is not disqualified from operating a commercial motor vehicle. (15) The State shall disqualify an individual from operating a commercial motor vehicle for the same reasons and time periods for which the Secretary shall disqualify the individual under subsections (b)–(e), (i)(1)(A) and (i)(2) of section 31310. (16) (A) Before issuing a commercial driver’s license to an individual, the State shall request the Secretary for information from the National Driver Register maintained under chapter 303 of this title (after the Secretary decides the Register is operational) on whether the individual— (i) has been disqualified from operating a motor vehicle (except a commercial motor vehicle); (ii) has had a license (except a license authorizing the individual to operate a commercial motor vehicle) revoked, suspended, or canceled for cause in the 3-year period ending on the date of application for the commercial driver’s license; or (iii) has been convicted of an offense specified in section 30304 (a)(3) of this title. (B) The State shall give full weight and consideration to that information in deciding whether to issue the individual a commercial driver’s license. (17) The State shall adopt and enforce regulations prescribed by the Secretary under as [2] 31310(j) of this title. (18) The State shall maintain, as part of its driver information system, a record of each violation of a State or local motor vehicle traffic control law while operating a motor vehicle (except a parking violation) for each individual who holds a commercial driver’s license. The record shall be available upon request to the individual, the Secretary, employers, prospective employers, State licensing and law enforcement agencies, and their authorized agents. (19) The State shall— (A) record in the driving record of an individual who has a commercial driver’s license issued by the State; and (B) make available to all authorized persons and governmental entities having access to such record, all information the State receives under paragraph (9) with respect to the individual and every violation by the individual involving a motor vehicle (including a commercial motor vehicle) of a State or local law on traffic control (except a parking violation), not later than 10 days after the date of receipt of such information or the date of such violation, as the case may be. The State may not allow information regarding such violations to be withheld or masked in any way from the record of an individual possessing a commercial driver’s license. (20) The State shall revoke, suspend, or cancel the commercial driver’s license of an individual in accordance with regulations issued by the Secretary to carry out section 31310 (g). (21) By the date established by the Secretary under section 31309 (e)(4), the State shall be operating a commercial driver’s license information system that is compatible with the modernized commercial driver’s license information system under section 31309. (b) State Satisfaction of Requirements.— A State may satisfy the requirements of subsection (a) of this section that the State disqualify an individual from operating a commercial motor vehicle by revoking, suspending, or canceling the driver’s license issued to the individual. (c) Notification.— Not later than 30 days after being notified by a State of the proposed issuance of a commercial driver’s license to an individual, the Secretary or the operator of the information system under section 31309 of this title, as the case may be, shall notify the State whether the individual has a commercial driver’s license issued by another State or has been disqualified from operating a commercial motor vehicle by another State or the Secretary. ________________________________________

[1] See References in Text note below.

[2] So in original. Probably should be “section”.

TITLE 49 > SUBTITLE VI > PART A > CHAPTER 301 > SUBCHAPTER I > § 30102 § 30102. Definitions (4) “interstate commerce” means commerce between a place in a State and a place in another State or between places in the same State through another State. (10) “State” means a State of the United States, the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, the Northern Mariana Islands, Guam, American Samoa, and the Virgin Islands.

TITLE 49 > SUBTITLE VI > PART A > CHAPTER 303 > § 30303 Prev | Next § 30303. State participation

(a) Notification.— A State may become a participating State under this chapter by notifying the Secretary of Transportation of its intention to be bound by section 30304 of this title. (b) Withdrawal.— A participating State may end its status as a participating State by notifying the Secretary of its withdrawal from participation in the National Driver Register. (c) Form and Way of Notification.— Notification by a State under this section shall be made in the form and way the Secretary prescribes by regulation.

In effect, it’s (The Holacaust Inc.) become like a grotesque doll wielded by witch doctors, used to keep individuals from asking too many questions, from thinking for themselves and stepping out of line.

PatrickHenry  posted on  2009-10-01   11:11:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: PatrickHenry, noone222 (#2)

Further, what makes you believe that a SS# is mandated by Law (one must apply for a SS#.. if it were mandatory, you would simply be assigned one at birth).

he said that states 'require' a SS# to get a DL, (which they do. Don't mistinterpret this to convey agreement with their fraud.

noone222 wrote:

The notion that a FEDERAL SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER could be REQUIRED (Title 42 USC sec 666) to obtain a STATE DRIVER LICENSE could never have happened until the FED had TOTAL SOVEREIGNTY OVER STATES.

Glory to God in the highest, and Peace to His people on Earth.
"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I truly am not that concerned about him"
George W, Bush, 3/13/02 http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html

Artisan  posted on  2009-10-01   11:31:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Artisan (#3)

Further, what makes you believe that a SS# is mandated by Law (one must apply for a SS#.. if it were mandatory, you would simply be assigned one at birth).

he said that states 'require' a SS# to get a DL, (which they do. Don't mistinterpret this to convey agreement with their fraud.

noone222 wrote:

The notion that a FEDERAL SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER could be REQUIRED (Title 42 USC sec 666) to obtain a STATE DRIVER LICENSE could never have happened until the FED had TOTAL SOVEREIGNTY OVER STATES.

Hi Artisan,

If an American "agrees" or assents to the legitimacy of a quasi Federal State (IL,AZ,NV etc.) by obtaining a State License or accepting the political status of a resident, U.S. citizen (DL, Professional License etc.) then that American has agreed to participate in the referenced fraud and may not later complain or contest the instant matter as per the Ashwander Rules (established by SCOTUS Justice Louis D. Brandeis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashwander_rules)w/ special attention to rule 6:

The Court will not pass upon the constitutionality of a statute at the instance of one who has availed himself of its benefits.

and

There is a hoary L. legal maxim: ignorantia iuris neminem excusat, ignorance of the law excuses nobody.

Excuse schal hym naght his ignorance. [c 1412 T. Hoccleve De Regimene Principum (EETS) 92]

Ignorance of the law though it be inuincible doth not excuse. [1530 C. St. German Dialogues in English ii. xlvi.]

The ignorance of the law excuseth no man. [1616 T. Draxe Adages 100]

Ignorance of the Law excuses no man; not that all Men know the Law, but because 'tis an excuse every man will plead, and no man can tell how to confute him. [a 1654 J. Selden Table-Talk (1689) 30]

Ignorance of the law excuses nobody. 69;The gates of mercy are forever shut against them. [1830 N. Ames Mariner's Sketches xxviii.]

[He] was fined £5 at Marylebone Court when he learned that ignorance of the law is no excuse for breaking it. [1979 Private Eye 17 Aug. 6]

Warm Regards,

Patrick

[P.H. note: U.S. citizens (subjects of the Federal Government) are bound to all 50 titles of the U.S. code, whereas a Citizen of a State is only bound by the Common Law and lawful contracts]

In effect, it’s (The Holacaust Inc.) become like a grotesque doll wielded by witch doctors, used to keep individuals from asking too many questions, from thinking for themselves and stepping out of line.

PatrickHenry  posted on  2009-10-01   12:37:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: PatrickHenry (#2)

“State” means a State of the United States, the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, the Northern Mariana Islands, Guam, American Samoa, and the Virgin Islands.

I travel without the benefit of a license of any type and have done so for over 25 years. I have no agreements with any govt. entity or corporation. No I.D. whatsoever. I do no business with FICTIONS, period.

I've read everything that you have posted (and more).

The above captioned definition of "State" is why Obama said we have 57 "States". It's why he doesn't have to be a natural born American citizen, and why those court cases keep getting thrown out. The FUCKING CONSTITUTION ISN'T RELEVANT or IN OPERATION.

These "States" are Federal (reserve bank) STATES. These FEDERAL "STATES OF TEXAS" "STATES OF INDIANA" etc., are like counties within the FEDERAL (RESERVE BANK) GOVT.

ANY PLACE/JURISDICTION that uses FRNs to do business is in the FEDERAL RESERVE BANK SYSTEM of government and is not operating constitutionally and is not under CONSTITUTIONAL restraints. Any jurisdiction that does business utilizing commercial paper/credit is a fictional place that operates every fraud known to man. The law in this juridiction is the UCC, and a variety of statutes, not the Constitution or Common Law. These "STATES" have no sovereignty as they are debtors to the Federal Reserve Bank Govt.

And anyone using a SSN has forfeited their republican form of government and associated rights for the "security" and "privileges" promised by the SOCIALIST DEMOBOCRACY that they VOLUNTARILY joined when they accepted the potential benefits offered under the SS scheme. (There are a zillion ways to join the FEDERAL SLAVE SYSTEM and most people have joined)

A SSN is a Commercial Account Number. I don't have one. Any agreement with a legal fiction such as a STATE, a CORPORATION, a BANK, etc., is an automatic admission that "YOU" are a (socialist) corporate fiction and participant in the Federal (reserve bank) SYSTEM.

“State” means a State of the United States, the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, the Northern Mariana Islands, Guam, American Samoa, and the Virgin Islands.

We ain't in Kansas anymore, Patrick !

The U.S. Govt is a tyrannical butcher; U.S. taxpayers are accomplices to international murder and mayhem. If you satisfy your fears by bowing to this butcher, you forfeit your humanity and possibly your soul.

noone222  posted on  2009-10-02   4:47:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: PatrickHenry (#4)

By the way, GREAT POST !

I'd equate the federal fraud (and joining it) to the time Jesus was asked about how does a rich man get to heaven ... and he said it was harder than for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle.

It's the same deal for most Americans that think they benefit from the SS System, when in fact, it's destroying the entire country (with the FED's help). However, these people are convinced that they can't survive or live "as well" without complying with SS mandates.

The FRN is a private currency owned by the Federal Reserve Bank. The jurisdiction wherein this private currency is used is also private. It appears that an international FED is being implemented although with the FRN being the world reserve currency already does the same thing. How else did they manage to make the Swiss turn over "banking records" ??? There's a thing called "choice of law" that says the jurisdiction if not specified by the "parties" is determined by the medium of exchange.

The U.S. Govt is a tyrannical butcher; U.S. taxpayers are accomplices to international murder and mayhem. If you satisfy your fears by bowing to this butcher, you forfeit your humanity and possibly your soul.

noone222  posted on  2009-10-02   5:13:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: PatrickHenry (#2) (Edited)

(one must apply for a SS#.. if it were mandatory, you would simply be assigned one at birth).

Hahahaha ... most are assigned at birth today. Most people having children are "members" of the SS Club, and obligated through their marriage license and SSN to sign up their new lil serf at the hospital.

The reason this all works so well for the satanists running things here on earth is the fact that people have more faith in fraud than they do in God.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that anyone not wanting to enslave their new born immediately should decide NOT TO NAME THE BABY UNTIL AFTER LEAVING THE HOSPITAL. (Fuck em, unless you want the "TAX DEDUCTION" !)

The U.S. Govt is a tyrannical butcher; U.S. taxpayers are accomplices to international murder and mayhem. If you satisfy your fears by bowing to this butcher, you forfeit your humanity and possibly your soul.

noone222  posted on  2009-10-02   5:23:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: noone222 (#7)

Hi noone22,

I enjoy your posts very much as well.

It's not often I have the pleasure of meeting someone that has mastered the subject matter of natural rights v. Federally Instituted Slavery as clearly as you have.

Please feel free to ping me to more of your excellent / insightful commentary.

With Great Respect,

Patrick

In effect, it’s (The Holacaust Inc.) become like a grotesque doll wielded by witch doctors, used to keep individuals from asking too many questions, from thinking for themselves and stepping out of line.

PatrickHenry  posted on  2009-10-02   18:18:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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