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Dead Constitution
See other Dead Constitution Articles

Title: Montana Gun Suit Challenges Federal Authority
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/1 ... g_liberties/entry5356494.shtml
Published: Oct 6, 2009
Author: Declan McCullagh
Post Date: 2009-10-06 06:35:48 by Ada
Keywords: None
Views: 131
Comments: 4

A Montana lawsuit filed on Thursday challenges federal authority to regulate guns manufactured and sold within the state, an argument that would effectively invalidate federal firearm laws in Big Sky Country if adopted by the courts.

The lawsuit arose out of a state law signed by Democratic Gov. Brian Schweitzer that took effect on October 1. It says that firearms, ammunition, and accessories manufactured entirely inside Montana are not subject to federal regulation, including background checks for buyers and record-keeping requirements for sellers. They would remain subject to state regulation, and machine gun manufacturing is not permitted.

This is part of a new grassroots movement that's seeking to invoke the principle of states' rights -- including states' authority to regulate firearms within their borders -- to thwart what backers view as an increasingly overreaching federal government.

One of the plaintiffs is Gary Marbut, president of the Montana Shooting Sports Association. The complaint (PDF) says Marbut "wishes to manufacture and sell small arms and small arms ammunition to customers exclusively in Montana" without complying with federal laws but has been told by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives that the federal laws "continue to apply." (See related CBSNews.com story about the Obama administration's position.)

While this federalism-inspired revolt has coalesced around gun rights, the broader goal is to dust off a section of the Bill of Rights that most Americans probably have paid scant attention to: the Tenth Amendment. It says that "powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

"We feel very strongly that the federal government has gone way too far in attempting to regulate a lot of activity that occurs only in-state," said Marbut. "It's time for Montana and her sister states to take a stand against the bullying federal government, which the legislature and governor have done and we are doing with this lawsuit."

The case was filed by Quentin Rhoades of Sullivan, Tabaracci, and Rhoades in Missoula, Mont., with the support of the Second Amendment Foundation. The U.S. Justice Department, which will be defending the suit in court, did not immediately respond to a request for comment on Thursday.

Read literally, the Tenth Amendment seems to suggest that the federal government's powers are limited only to what it has been "delegated," and the U.S. Supreme Court in 1918 confirmed that the amendment "carefully reserved" some authority "to the states." That view is echoed by statements made at the time the Constitution was adopted; New Hampshire explicitly said that states kept "all powers not expressly and particularly delegated" to the federal government.

More recently, federal courts have interpreted the Tenth Amendment narrowly, in a way that justifies almost any law on grounds that it intends to regulate interstate commerce. In the 2005 case of Gonzales v. Raich, for instance, the Supreme Court ruled that a person growing marijuana for her own medicinal use could have a "substantial effect on interstate commerce." (In an pointed dissent, Justice Clarence Thomas wrote: "If Congress can regulate this under the Commerce Clause, then it can regulate virtually anything -- and the federal government is no longer one of limited and enumerated powers.")

One possibility is is that the composition of the U.S. Supreme Court has changed enough in the last four years to make a repeat of Gonzales v. Raich unlikely; on the other hand, some justices that might have been sympathetic to a sick mother using medical marijuana may not be as willing to embrace federalism if it means zapping gun laws that have been around for over a generation.

Another possibility is that proponents can argue -- as Marbut plans to do -- that this case is different. In Gonzales v. Raich, the Supreme Court noted "it is not feasible to distinguish" marijuana that's "manufactured and distributed interstate and controlled substances manufactured and distributed intrastate." The Montana law, by contrast, says that all state-made firearms "must have the words 'Made in Montana' clearly stamped on a central metallic part, such as the receiver or frame."

Still, the case amounts to a long shot squared. Perhaps, in a slightly different universe where the Tenth Amendment were not virtually ignored by courts, the plaintiffs would stand a good chance of winning. In this post-Raich reality, even pro-Second Amendment types are skeptical.

"I think they probably should succeed and I think they probably won't," Nelson Lund, a professor of constitutional law at George Mason University who specializes in the Second Amendment, told me over the summer. "The Supreme Court has strong precedents that would render this statute invalid."

But this is as much as political maneuver as it is a legal one. Even a courtroom defeat would galvanize the burgeoning federalist movement and could lead to more states adopting sovereignty and Tenth Amendment resolutions, a trend that has been documented by the Tenth Amendment Center (and anticipated by forecaster Gerald Celente). If enough state governments vote to resuscitate the Tenth Amendment, even federal courts eventually may pay attention.

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#1. To: Ada (#0)

It's unlikely to succeed and will lay down another precedent. I'm not sure that is reason not to try though.

TooConservative  posted on  2009-10-06   6:50:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Ada (#0) (Edited)

The real deal is that "STATES" have made a deal with the devil ie., the Federal (Reserve Bank) Government. Basically, when transactions take place utilizing FEDERAL RESERVE (PRIVATE) CURRENCY it (the transaction) has taken place in the private FEDERAL ZONE by implied contract, the 10th Amendment notwithstanding.

The Constitution ONLY APPLIES where CONSTITUTIONAL MONEY is exchanged, ie., Gold / Silver coin.

People, including government officials/lawyers, seem to be ignorant of their own situation.

When people say things like "wtf, where did I wake up, Russia ? They're pretty close to the truth.

When transactions are "facilitated" by the FED through use of their private currency they demand the right to regulate the transactions. The terminology that describes this condition is "CHOICE OF LAW" ... it's as old as law itself.

I don't know who ends up writing the opinions that come out of THEIR COURTS (not yours) but those sons of bitches are good, no they're brilliant. They've been avoiding a direct conflict with the CONstitution by slick sophistry for a very long time and had to know eventually the masses would come out of their comatose ignorance. That's why they've beefed up the military/police STATE.

The truth is you cannot use FRNs in a Constitutional jurisdiction, it's unconstitutional and illegal. The STATE of MT. exists in a (commercial) FEDERAL ZONE, not in the Constitutional united States.

Cherish your privileges, your fiat/credit and your socialist security because it cost you your freedom.

The U.S. Govt is a tyrannical butcher; U.S. taxpayers are accomplices to international murder and mayhem. If you satisfy your fears by bowing to this butcher, you forfeit your humanity and possibly your soul.

noone222  posted on  2009-10-06   7:15:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Ada (#0)

(In an pointed dissent, Justice Clarence Thomas wrote: "If Congress can regulate this under the Commerce Clause, then it can regulate virtually anything -- and the federal government is no longer one of limited and enumerated powers.")

Which is how they want it and the whole point of course.


"If, from the more wretched parts of the old world, we look at those which are in an advanced stage of improvement, we still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised, to furnish new pretenses for revenues and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without tribute." --Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, 1791

farmfriend  posted on  2009-10-06   7:50:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Ada (#0)

This is part of a new grassroots movement that's seeking to invoke the principle of states' rights -- including states' authority to regulate firearms within their borders -- to thwart what backers view as an increasingly overreaching federal government.

Hi Ada,

As a student of Constitutional Law I find it amusing, as the author suggests any matter of controversy between Federal v State jurisdiction (regardless of subject matter) may be contested “within the boundaries of that state”. The simply rational basis of this claim is unfounded in reality as these referenced “boundaries” or Territorial Jurisdiction claims were removed or redacted from all state constitutions beginning in the mid 1960’s to the early 1970’s. To verify this as fact, a simple comparative of the new state Constitutions (or revisions) to the old make this clear (see Illinois Constitutions of 1818, 1848 and 1870 at Article One http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Illinois_Constitution_of_1818, http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Illinois_Constitution_of_1848, http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Illinois_Constitution_of_1870 and compare to Illinois Constitution of 1970 http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Illinois_Constitution_of_1970 Oooops no Territorial Jurisdiction claim here!!). Several other modifications were made to state constitutions at this time including but not limited to removing any protection or recognition of American Common Law, removing many protections against arbitrary arrest (the General Assembly was given the right, not only to abolish the grand jury, but to limit its use.. no need to obtain a Grand Jury Indictment or Sworn Affidavit to make an arrest and incarcerate). These substantial changes were made to better conform to “The New Order of Things” (without a clear state territorial jurisdiction claim, the state government’s were free to impose Federal Law without regard to the SEPARATION OF POWERS DOCTRINE) as per Constitution Conventional Scholars Elmer Gertz & Edward S. Gilbreth (both were active parties involved with Illinois Constitution Convention of 1969 and co-authors of “Charter for a New Age” & Quest For A Constitution: A Man Who Wouldn’t Quit”). It also important to note that the “fundamental element” of the state being Citizens of a State (collectively known as We the People) had accepted Federal citizenship under the purported 14th Amendment.. (See Social Security application at http://www.ssa.gov/online/ss-5.pdf with special attention to question #3 CITIZENSHIP, this is where Americans make the election to become U.S. citizens and waive their Natural Rights and protection under the American Common Law as Citizens of a State). With no State Citizens, the State Governments that were “Republican in Nature” became obsolete.

The states today can best be described as “Quasi Federal” and certainly not Republican in Nature (or considered the original state governments “Incorporated into the Union”).

In short the 10th Amendment is dead or dormant (see Alan M. Dershowitz, Harvard Law Professor’s comments on this subject) and any claim of State Sovereignty … is now void and inoperative.

A better argument would not include the 10th, but would demand that D.C. v Heller (recognizing firearms as being fundamental to the Natural Right of Self Preservation) be enforced upon Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives.

"Where rights secured by the Federal Constitution are involved, there can be no rule-making or legislation which would abrogate them." [Miranda v. Arizona, 384 U.S. 436 (1966)J

Warm Regards,

Patrick Henry

In effect, it’s (The Holacaust Inc.) become like a grotesque doll wielded by witch doctors, used to keep individuals from asking too many questions, from thinking for themselves and stepping out of line.

PatrickHenry  posted on  2009-10-06   10:46:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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