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Resistance
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Title: American troops in Afghanistan losing heart, say army chaplains
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/ne ... Afghanistan/article6865359.ece
Published: Oct 8, 2009
Author: Martin Fletcher
Post Date: 2009-10-08 09:57:15 by Horse
Keywords: None
Views: 7403
Comments: 240

American soldiers serving in Afghanistan are depressed and deeply disillusioned, according to the chaplains of two US battalions that have spent nine months on the front line in the war against the Taleban.

Many feel that they are risking their lives — and that colleagues have died — for a futile mission and an Afghan population that does nothing to help them, the chaplains told The Times in their makeshift chapel on this fortress-like base in a dusty, brown valley southwest of Kabul.

“The many soldiers who come to see us have a sense of futility and anger about being here. They are really in a state of depression and despair and just want to get back to their families,” said Captain Jeff Masengale, of the 10th Mountain Division’s 2-87 Infantry Battalion.

“They feel they are risking their lives for progress that’s hard to discern,” said Captain Sam Rico, of the Division’s 4-25 Field Artillery Battalion. “They are tired, strained, confused and just want to get through.” The chaplains said that they were speaking out because the men could not.

The base is not, it has to be said, obviously downcast, and many troops do not share the chaplains’ assessment. The soldiers are, by nature and training, upbeat, driven by a strong sense of duty, and they do their jobs as best they can. Re-enlistment rates are surprisingly good for the 2-87, though poor for the 4-25. Several men approached by The Times, however, readily admitted that their morale had slumped.

“We’re lost — that’s how I feel. I’m not exactly sure why we’re here,” said Specialist Raquime Mercer, 20, whose closest friend was shot dead by a renegade Afghan policeman last Friday. “I need a clear-cut purpose if I’m going to get hurt out here or if I’m going to die.”

Sergeant Christopher Hughes, 37, from Detroit, has lost six colleagues and survived two roadside bombs. Asked if the mission was worthwhile, he replied: “If I knew exactly what the mission was, probably so, but I don’t.”

The only soldiers who thought it was going well “work in an office, not on the ground”. In his opinion “the whole country is going to s***”.

The battalion’s 1,500 soldiers are nine months in to a year-long deployment that has proved extraordinarily tough. Their goal was to secure the mountainous Wardak province and then to win the people’s allegiance through development and good governance. They have, instead, found themselves locked in an increasingly vicious battle with the Taleban.

They have been targeted by at least 300 roadside bombs, about 180 of which have exploded. Nineteen men have been killed in action, with another committing suicide. About a hundred have been flown home with amputations, severe burns and other injuries likely to cause permanent disability, and many of those have not been replaced. More than two dozen mine-resistant, ambush-protected vehicles (MRAPs) have been knocked out of action.

Living conditions are good — abundant food, air-conditioned tents, hot water, free internet — but most of the men are on their second, third or fourth tours of Afghanistan and Iraq, with barely a year between each. Staff Sergeant Erika Cheney, Airborne’s mental health specialist, expressed concern about their mental state — especially those in scattered outposts — and believes that many have mild post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD). “They’re tired, frustrated, scared. A lot of them are afraid to go out but will still go,” she said.

Lieutenant Peter Hjelmstad, 2-87’s Medical Platoon Leader, said sleeplessness and anger attacks were common.

A dozen men have been confined to desk jobs because they can no longer handle missions outside the base. One long-serving officer who has lost three friends this tour said he sometimes returned to his room at night and cried, or played war games on his laptop. “It’s a release. It’s a method of coping.” He has nightmares and sleeps little, and it does not help that the base is frequently shaken by outgoing artillery fire. He was briefly overcome as he recalled how, when a lorry backfired during his most recent home leave, he grabbed his young son and dived between two parked cars.

The chaplains said soldiers were seeking their help in unprecedented numbers. “Everyone you meet is just down, and you meet them everywhere — in the weight room, dining facility, getting mail,” said Captain Rico. Even “hard men” were coming to their tent chapel and breaking down.

The men are frustrated by the lack of obvious purpose or progress. “The soldiers’ biggest question is: what can we do to make this war stop. Catch one person? Assault one objective? Soldiers want definite answers, other than to stop the Taleban, because that almost seems impossible. It’s hard to catch someone you can’t see,” said Specialist Mercer.

“It’s a very frustrating mission,” said Lieutenant Hjelmstad. “The average soldier sees a friend blown up and his instinct is to retaliate or believe it’s for something [worthwhile], but it’s not like other wars where your buddy died but they took the hill. There’s no tangible reward for the sacrifice. It’s hard to say Wardak is better than when we got here.”

Captain Masengale, a soldier for 12 years before he became a chaplain, said: “We want to believe in a cause but we don’t know what that cause is.”

The soldiers are angry that colleagues are losing their lives while trying to help a population that will not help them. “You give them all the humanitarian assistance that they want and they’re still going to lie to you. They’ll tell you there’s no Taleban anywhere in the area and as soon as you roll away, ten feet from their house, you get shot at again,” said Specialist Eric Petty, from Georgia.

Captain Rico told of the disgust of a medic who was asked to treat an insurgent shortly after pulling a colleague’s charred corpse from a bombed vehicle.

The soldiers complain that rules of engagement designed to minimise civilian casualties mean that they fight with one arm tied behind their backs. “They’re a joke,” said one. “You get shot at but can do nothing about it. You have to see the person with the weapon. It’s not enough to know which house the shooting’s coming from.”

The soldiers joke that their Isaf arm badges stand not for International Security Assistance Force but “I Suck At Fighting” or “I Support Afghan Farmers”.

To compound matters, soldiers are mainly being killed not in combat but on routine journeys, by roadside bombs planted by an invisible enemy. “That’s very demoralising,” said Captain Masengale.

The constant deployments are, meanwhile, playing havoc with the soldiers’ private lives. “They’re killing families,” he said. “Divorces are skyrocketing. PTSD is off the scale. There have been hundreds of injuries that send soldiers home and affect families for the rest of their lives.”

The chaplains said that many soldiers had lost their desire to help Afghanistan. “All they want to do is make it home alive and go back to their wives and children and visit the families who have lost husbands and fathers over here. It comes down to just surviving,” said Captain Masengale.

“If we make it back with ten toes and ten fingers the mission is successful,” Sergeant Hughes said.

“You carry on for the guys to your left or right,” added Specialist Mercer.

The chaplains have themselves struggled to cope with so much distress. “We have to encourage them, strengthen them and send them out again. No one comes in and says, ‘I’ve had a great day on a mission’. It’s all pain,” said Captain Masengale. “The only way we’ve been able to make it is having each other.”

Lieutenant-Colonel Kimo Gallahue, 2-87’s commanding officer, denied that his men were demoralised, and insisted they had achieved a great deal over the past nine months. A triathlete and former rugby player, he admitted pushing his men hard, but argued that taking the fight to the enemy was the best form of defence.

He said the security situation had worsened because the insurgents had chosen to fight in Wardak province, not abandon it. He said, however, that the situation would have been catastrophic without his men. They had managed to keep open the key Kabul-to-Kandahar highway which dissects Wardak, and prevent the province becoming a launch pad for attacks on the capital, which is barely 20 miles from its border. Above all, Colonel Gallahue argued that counter-insurgency — winning the allegiance of the indigenous population through security, development and good governance — was a long and laborious process that could not be completed in a year. “These 12 months have been, for me, laying the groundwork for future success,” he said.

At morning service on Sunday, the two chaplains sought to boost the spirits of their flock with uplifting hymns, accompanied by video footage of beautiful lakes, oceans and rivers.

Captain Rico offered a particularly apposite reading from Corinthians: “We are afflicted in every way but not crushed; perplexed but not driven to despair; persecuted but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed.”


Poster Comment:

“The many soldiers who come to see us have a sense of futility and anger about being here. They are really in a state of depression and despair and just want to get back to their families,” ...“They feel they are risking their lives for progress that’s hard to discern,”... “They are tired, strained, confused and just want to get through.”...“We’re lost — that’s how I feel. I’m not exactly sure why we’re here,” ...“I need a clear-cut purpose if I’m going to get hurt out here or if I’m going to die.”...Sergeant Christopher Hughes, 37, from Detroit, has lost six colleagues and survived two roadside bombs. Asked if the mission was worthwhile, he replied: “If I knew exactly what the mission was, probably so, but I don’t.”...sleeplessness and anger attacks were common....The men are frustrated by the lack of obvious purpose or progress....“We want to believe in a cause but we don’t know what that cause is.”...To compound matters, soldiers are mainly being killed not in combat but on routine journeys, by roadside bombs planted by an invisible enemy....“Divorces are skyrocketing. PTSD is off the scale. There have been hundreds of injuries that send soldiers home and affect families for the rest of their lives.”...“All they want to do is make it home alive and go back to their wives and children and visit the families who have lost husbands and fathers over here. It comes down to just surviving,”...He said the security situation had worsened because the insurgents had chosen to fight in Wardak province, not abandon it...two chaplains sought to boost the spirits of their flock with uplifting hymns, accompanied by video footage of beautiful lakes, oceans and rivers.

[Thread Locked]   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  


TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest

#1. To: Horse (#0)

Can you post the photo, is needed???

Cynicom  posted on  2009-10-08   9:59:33 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Horse (#0)

The top General has spoken, Obama tried to take him down, now the lowly grunts have spoken, there is rebellion in the ranks.

Cynicom  posted on  2009-10-08   10:01:41 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Horse, All (#0)

Wish I were a fly on the wall and could see and hear the activity in the Oval Office today. They gotta be scrambling. Too bad you didn't attach photos to this. They are telling.

Phant2000  posted on  2009-10-08   10:02:14 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Phant2000 (#3)

Wish I were a fly on the wall and could see and hear the activity in the Oval Office today. They gotta be scrambling.

There will be much turmoil in this corrupt government today. The congress authorized the money for more war yesterday and today the troops are telling them to go to hell. I love this.

Cynicom  posted on  2009-10-08   10:04:04 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Phant2000 (#3)

.He said the security situation had worsened because the insurgents had chosen to fight in Wardak province, not abandon it...two chaplains sought to boost the spirits of their flock with uplifting hymns, accompanied by video footage of beautiful lakes, oceans and rivers.

What does the above tell you?????

Speaks loads. The officers in the middle try denying and make themselves look weak and like lackeys. Better they keep quiet.

Cynicom  posted on  2009-10-08   10:07:11 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Cynicom (#4)

The congress authorized the money for more war yesterday and today the troops are telling them to go to hell.

And to think that there are retired officers giving interviews on TV that said McCrystal was not cut out for such responsibility. I hope that "officer" is choking on his words as we post.

Phant2000  posted on  2009-10-08   10:07:15 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Phant2000 (#6) (Edited)

And to think that there are retired officers giving interviews on TV that said McCrystal was not cut out for such responsibility.

At least McChrystal has stood up and told it like it is. Obumski fired McKiernan, and if he fires McChrystal the roof will fall in.

Cynicom  posted on  2009-10-08   10:10:46 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Cynicom (#7)

Obama has His own Corregidor. This after a 30k Bush-like surge. The blood is dripping from the hands of the Obama phone bank queens.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2009-10-08   10:29:35 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Jethro Tull (#8)

Can you add the photo the original post, it needs to be seen???

Cynicom  posted on  2009-10-08   10:31:56 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Jethro Tull (#8)

The top General has spoken, and now the lowly grunts are adding their voices, this portends great trouble for Obama and his Jew war mongers in Washington.

Cynicom  posted on  2009-10-08   10:35:31 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Cynicom (#9)

Well done, Obama!

Jethro Tull  posted on  2009-10-08   10:38:11 ET  (1 image) [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Jethro Tull, All (#11)

I hope you all noticed the Bible on the bench in front of the young man. This was posed, face hidden for the lower ranks to make a statement, bless all of them.

Cynicom  posted on  2009-10-08   10:41:00 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Cynicom, Jethro Tull (#10)

The real death blow to the Afghanistan action will come not when the rank and file revolt, and not when the Generals bark, but when the officer corps balks. When you get the Colonels and below united against this, it's over.

And not a moment too soon.

MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.

SonOfLiberty  posted on  2009-10-08   10:43:05 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: SonOfLiberty (#13)

The real death blow to the Afghanistan action will come not when the rank and file revolt,

The man at the top has already spoken, now the men at the bottom have spoken. those lackeys in the middle will go with the prevailing wind.

Cynicom  posted on  2009-10-08   10:44:48 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Cynicom (#9)

Two pics are at the linked site.

As was the case in Vietnam, the mission is to return home safely. End of story.

Iran Truth Now!

Lod  posted on  2009-10-08   10:50:39 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Cynicom (#14)

Let me expand on what I meant.

The General(s) can be easily fired and ridiculed. The foot soldier can be discounted and ignored and then ordered back to the battle, and they'll go more often than not. It's the officer corp, in my estimation, that are the point where orders from the top can be stopped. Just speculation of course.

MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.

SonOfLiberty  posted on  2009-10-08   10:54:18 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Lod (#15)

LOd...

There is MUCH to be gleaned here other than the intended message to Obama and this corrupt government.

This was arranged for the BRITISH media, not American, THAT TELLS US AND OBAMA MUCH.

Photo was posed for maximum effect, hidden face, black minority, bibles in prominance for PARENTS AND WIVES TO SEE.

This is the very bottom of the Army speaking the only way they know how.

This has to shake Obama and the top of the military to the core.

Note the AF and Navy are saying nothing, because they are not dying and bleeding.

Cynicom  posted on  2009-10-08   10:56:07 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: SonOfLiberty (#16)

Just speculation of course.

Not speculation at all, is reasoned thinking.

Here we have a seldom seen affair, the very top is being aided and supported by the very bottom, it is very rare. the ones at the bottom dare not show their faces and that tells us they DO INDEED FEAR RETRIBUTION.

Cynicom  posted on  2009-10-08   10:58:29 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Horse (#0)

Title: Honor The Fallen; Honoring those who fought and died for Operations Iraqi Freedom and Enduring Freedom

TwentyTwelve  posted on  2009-10-08   11:03:31 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Cynicom (#1)

TwentyTwelve  posted on  2009-10-08   11:05:27 ET  (1 image) [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: TwentyTwelve, All (#20)

That photo speaks a thousand words and sadly most Americans will see little if anything. We may rest assured that this photo is making the rounds of the Pentagon this morning and there will those demanding heads to roll.

Cynicom  posted on  2009-10-08   11:08:20 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Horse (#0)

No oil there, that we know of. It's hard to fire up the public if there's no oil to steal.

And they can't be told the truth.

Well, the pipeline route is public knowledge, but not worthy of $236 billion in "gubmint spending" (estimated cost "in theater" to date).

But the main reason they are there is to PREVENT the Taliban from once again engaging in wholesale eradication and destruction of the poppy crops. The hundreds of billions derived from the heroin trade are helping prop up what's left of the Western banks, plus the intel agencies are always taking a huge cut of the narco trade to fund black ops.

“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston

Sam Houston  posted on  2009-10-08   11:09:21 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Sam Houston. all (#22)

But the main reason they are there is to PREVENT the Taliban from once again engaging in wholesale eradication and destruction of the poppy crops. The hundreds of billions derived from the heroin trade are helping prop up what's left of the Western banks, plus the intel agencies are always taking a huge cut of the narco trade to fund black ops.

Yep.

Iran Truth Now!

Lod  posted on  2009-10-08   11:22:58 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Sam Houston (#22)

No oil there, that we know of

We are providing security for Chinese building roads in Afghan, that lead to their drilling rigs...FOR OIL.

Cynicom  posted on  2009-10-08   11:32:24 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: Cynicom (#4)

“We’re lost — that’s how I feel. I’m not exactly sure why we’re here,” said Specialist Raquime Mercer, 20, whose closest friend was shot dead by a renegade Afghan policeman last Friday. “I need a clear-cut purpose if I’m going to get hurt out here or if I’m going to die.”

Cyni, You and I talked about this on a similar thread some time ago.

This is what would have worried me if I had enlisted in my younger days.

I sure do understand how these folks feel. If you don't believe in the cause or feel it's a wasted cause. You can't be an effective soldier.

The jerks that sent them there have no idea how to support them. The troops have to be on top of their game everyday and that takes work not only on their part but the part of those who sent them. Once the soldiers get to this point it's hard to bring them back. Don't you agree?

"What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that its people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms....The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson

phantom patriot  posted on  2009-10-08   12:10:46 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: Cynicom (#24)

Have you got a link for that?

“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston

Sam Houston  posted on  2009-10-08   12:29:08 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Cynicom (#24)

We are providing security for Chinese building roads in Afghan, that lead to their drilling rigs...FOR OIL.

TwentyTwelve  posted on  2009-10-08   12:31:29 ET  (1 image) [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: Cynicom (#21)

Thursday, October 8, 2009

Troops in Afghanistan Demoralized

Shame on President Obama. Read about the consequences of electing a president who despises the military and shows them no respect or consideration, via Gateway Pundit:

Stunner... Troop Morale Falling Under President Obama

"How to kill a Great Nation and Its Military in 9 Easy Months,"
By Barack Hussein Obama.

As Told By Bill Ayers

Chapter I: Crushing an Economy

Chapter II: Standing With Dictators While Democracy Protesters Die in the Street

Chapter III: How to Kill Troop Morale

military losing heart

What an absolute shock.
President Obama's indecisiveness is killing troop morale.
The Times Online reported:


'American soldiers serving in Afghanistan are depressed and deeply disillusioned, according to the chaplains of two US battalions that have spent nine months on the front line in the war against the Taliban.

Many feel that they are risking their lives 52; and that colleagues have died 52; for a futile mission and an Afghan population that does nothing to help them, the chaplains told The Times in their makeshift chapel on this fortress-like base in a dusty, brown valley southwest of Kabul.

60;The many soldiers who come to see us have a sense of futility and anger about being here. They are really in a state of depression and despair and just want to get back to their families,61; said Captain Jeff Masengale, of the 10th Mountain Division57;s 2-87 Infantry Battalion.

60;They feel they are risking their lives for progress that57;s hard to discern,61; said Captain Sam Rico, of the Division57;s 4-25 Field Artillery Battalion. 60;They are tired, strained, confused and just want to get through.61; The chaplains said that they were speaking out because the men could not.'


Good work, Barack.

UPDATE: Via HotAir- Michael Yon links to an intriguing report from Anthony Lloyd from Afghanistan. Don57;t forget to hit Michael57;s tip jar. We57;re going to need him on the ground more than ever."

Jethro Tull  posted on  2009-10-08   12:31:49 ET  (1 image) [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Jethro Tull (#28)

TwentyTwelve  posted on  2009-10-08   12:34:46 ET  (1 image) [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: Sam Houston, Cynicom, Os (#26)


The U.S. and China have formed an uneasy alliance in the effort to build stability in Afghanistan.

In a valley long known as a Taliban haven, American troops live alongside Chinese road workers. The troops put their lives on the line protecting the workers. The workers put their lives on the line building a road the U.S. military desperately wants completed.

"Asphalt is ammunition," says Lt. Col. Kimo Gallahue, commander of the 2nd Battalion of the 87th Infantry Regiment, quoting a phrase popular in the military. "Roads are one of the biggest needs in this province."


Michael M. Phillips/ The Wall Street Journal

U.S. soldiers like Lt. John Donovan, left, provide security for Chinese workers like Wang Shangkeui in Afghanistan.
The Chinese are in Afghanistan mostly to make deals. "This is business -- we can work in Afghanistan or any other country," says Wang Shangkuei, an engineer for China Railway Shisiju Group Corp., a state-owned company with a $50 million contract funded by Italian aid money to grade and pave 33 miles of two- lane road past Momaki village in Wardak province. But, he says, "if there's fighting, we can't do the work."

What's happening in Afghanistan is an extreme example of the way the U.S. and China must work with each other around the globe. China needs the U.S. to protect global trade routes vital to Beijing's export-oriented economy. The U.S. needs China's investment to boost unsteady, but strategically important, economies. Chinese companies were among some of the earliest to re-enter Iraq.

This month, the Afghan foreign minister visited China to generate interest in oil, gas and iron-ore concessions. He and his Chinese counterpart agreed to study ways to open up commercial traffic on their 47-mile shared border -- located in a remote mountain region and largely inaccessible -- such as building a road through the area.

China's biggest foray into its neighbor's economy so far is a $3 billion deal for two Chinese companies to develop the huge Aynak copper deposit in Logar province, south of Kabul.

As part of the deal, China Metallurgical Group and Jiangxi Copper Group agreed to build schools, clinics, markets, mosques and a power plant. The Chinese companies say they will also build a railway expected to link Afghanistan with China, via Pakistan, and open a rail route to the north from the mine. The Afghan government predicts the project will generate 6,000 jobs.

"It is very safe to conduct the project in Afghanistan because the Americans are guarding us," says Pan Qifang, board secretary of Jiangxi Copper.

The Afghan Ministry of Mines recently said it will seek bidders to explore for oil or gas in northern Afghanistan and to exploit an estimated 1.8 billion-ton iron-ore deposit in the Hajigak mountains, located west of Momaki along the road that is now under construction. The Chinese are expected to be among the bidders.

As of 2008, Chinese companies had 33 infrastructure projects valued at $480 million under way in Afghanistan, not including the big copper mine, according to Chinese Commerce Ministry data.

Eleven Chinese aid and commercial workers have been killed in the country since 2004, scaring off some Chinese companies, according to the Commerce Ministry. Chinese exports to Afghanistan measured $152 million in 2008, down 10.4% from a year earlier.

China Railway Shisiju started work in 2006 on the new road past Momaki.

As the Taliban-led rebellion intensified last year, militants had free run of the valley. In June 2008, they kidnapped a Chinese engineer, who was rescued by Afghan forces after nearly a month in captivity.

The Chinese stopped work for almost three months because of the security situation, built a little more, then stopped again for the winter.

In February, a company of Lt. Col. Gallahue's men -- the first wave of the coming troop surge -- entered the snowy valley and established a fragile peace.

Part of that mission means keeping the valley safe enough for road work to continue. "This road will provide easy access to Kabul," says Capt. Matthew Thom, 31 years old, from Beaverton, Ore. The paved surface will also make it harder for the insurgents to plant bombs, the soldiers hope.

A platoon of U.S. soldiers occupies a hilltop outpost overlooking the Chinese compound, whose walls were chipped by bullets during an insurgent attack last year. The soldiers can keep an eye on the Chinese company's quarry and offices.

"We work on the days when the security situation allows us to, and if it doesn't allow us to, we stop work," says Mr. Wang, the Chinese engineer. So far, the company has finished just 11 of the project's 33 miles.

He says American officers call periodically to urge the engineers to speed up.

"They've got their end-state, and we've got our end-state," Lt. Col. Gallahue says of the Chinese. "They may not be exactly the same, but they're not working against us. At least not yet."

U.S. and China Work Together to Rebuild Afghanistan - WSJ.com

Jethro Tull  posted on  2009-10-08   12:35:48 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Horse (#0)

American troops in Afghanistan losing heart

Let's pray they don't lose their lives or minds as well.

Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. Boy, when I fuck up, I really fuck up.
I learned a good lesson though, never cast a vote based on hate and disgust

iconoclast  posted on  2009-10-08   12:40:50 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: TwentyTwelve (#29)

ALL

Get the hell out of Afghanistan and all the other 100+ shit holes we're busybodying around in.

Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. Boy, when I fuck up, I really fuck up.
I learned a good lesson though, never cast a vote based on hate and disgust

iconoclast  posted on  2009-10-08   12:44:31 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: Jethro Tull (#28)

They feel they are risking their lives for progress that's hard to discern,

Translation:

We're dying for nothing

Ted Kennedy Is Now Eligible To Vote In Chicago.

Flintlock  posted on  2009-10-08   12:47:43 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: iconoclast (#32)

Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. Boy, when I fuck up, I really fuck up. I learned a good lesson though, never cast a vote based on hate and disgust

welcome back, iconoclast. it takes alot of character to admit error. ;)

"This Act (the Federal Reserve Act, Dec. 23rd 1913) establishes the most gigantic trust on earth. When the President (Woodrow Wilson) signs the Bill, the invisible government of the Monetary Power will be legalised... The worst legislative crime of the ages is perpetrated by this banking and currency Bill."--Charles Lindbergh, Sr.

christine  posted on  2009-10-08   12:48:44 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: Sam Houston (#26)

Sam...

It was on here two or three weeks ago.

MY memory fails on source.

Cynicom  posted on  2009-10-08   12:50:29 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: christine (#34)

If you go to times story there is a second photo available of Capt Rico.

Cynicom  posted on  2009-10-08   12:51:59 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: Jethro Tull (#28)

What this illustrates is that when you are living in a tyrannical empire, you should NEVER volunteer to be one of its storm troopers.

I HOPE they have low morale. It would prove that maybe there's a hint of a conscience left in anyone who does.

“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston

Sam Houston  posted on  2009-10-08   12:54:12 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: Cynicom (#35)

Jethro provided the proof. I believe it now, although it sounds like the oil and gas is more a hoped-for than a given, but the copper deposits are for real.

“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston

Sam Houston  posted on  2009-10-08   12:56:22 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: iconoclast, Jethro tull, christine, All (#32)

Get the hell out of Afghanistan and all the other 100+ shit holes we're busybodying around in.

Icon...

Everyone badmouths MacArthur but...

Did you know in 1945 that Mac had his first run in with Truman because...

Mac made a public statement that the United States should stay in Japan for ONLY one year, then take the troops home and let the UN administer Japan. That was in 1945, sixty four years ago and we are still there.

Cynicom  posted on  2009-10-08   12:56:44 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: Cynicom, christine (#36)

TwentyTwelve  posted on  2009-10-08   12:57:32 ET  (1 image) [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: Sam Houston, Jethro Tull (#38)

Sam...

No, the Chinese bet on sure things only, they do not bore dry holes. So far they have spent millions on exploration and now drilling.

Cynicom  posted on  2009-10-08   12:58:28 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: Jethro Tull (#30)

China's biggest foray into its neighbor's economy so far is a $3 billion deal for two Chinese companies to develop the huge Aynak copper deposit in Logar province, south of Kabul.

Jeebus, China the last entrepreneurial nation left on earth?

Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. Boy, when I fuck up, I really fuck up.
I learned a good lesson though, never cast a vote based on hate and disgust

iconoclast  posted on  2009-10-08   12:58:52 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: TwentyTwelve, christine, Jethro Tull (#40)

Thank you for the photo...

This young man needs the thanks of all of us here and all Americans. He is finished in the military but he has a higher calling.

Cynicom  posted on  2009-10-08   13:00:04 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: Horse (#0)

The soldiers joke that their Isaf arm badges stand not for International Security Assistance Force but “I Suck At Fighting” or “I Support Afghan Farmers”.

Also "I Saw Americans Fighting", referring to the general military uselessness of other NATO soldiers.

TooConservative  posted on  2009-10-08   13:00:14 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: christine (#34)

welcome back, iconoclast. it takes alot of character to admit error. ;)

Thanks, christine.

Never too late (I hope) to learn.

Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. Boy, when I fuck up, I really fuck up.
I learned a good lesson though, never cast a vote based on hate and disgust

iconoclast  posted on  2009-10-08   13:02:40 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: Cynicom (#43)

This young man needs the thanks of all of us here and all Americans.

He is very brave.

TwentyTwelve  posted on  2009-10-08   13:02:51 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: TwentyTwelve (#46)

He is very brave.

There will be the die hards that will want to crush this young man for standing up front and speaking the truth. The truth that Americans do not want to hear.

We owe this young man big time, he has shaken the government more than we will ever know.

Cynicom  posted on  2009-10-08   13:06:01 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: TooConservative (#44)

This is because the European countries delegated all warmongering to the Americans after WW II.

That was really what NATO was and is all about. You can tell how lost this Satanic organization (NWO enforcement arm, basically) is by how far the Khyber Pass is from the North Atlantic.

None of the yurpeens wants to be there to begin with. I don't blame them. They've observed Uncle Sam bankrupt itself with these useless trumped-up, inside job-generated wars for this entire decade. Why would they want any part of that? Most of Yurp knows 9/11 was an inside job anyhow.

“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston

Sam Houston  posted on  2009-10-08   13:09:31 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: Sam Houston, ALL (#37) (Edited)

What this illustrates is that when you are living in a tyrannical empire, you should NEVER volunteer to be one of its storm troopers.

. Recruiters report that they are seeing older walk-ins as a result of a battered economy. Changes in recruitment rules — the Army, for example, in 2006 raised its enlistment age limit from 35 to 42 — are also behind interest from older candidates.

http://www.america.gov/st/peaces...0.1622583.html&distid=ucs

We may finally exhaust our supply of boys and girls, older poor, jailbirds, and half-wits. We have also considered (don't know if implemented) recruiting foreigners with top of the list citizenship as bait. The depression is, of course, helping the recruiters now and will in future.

The troops may be losing enthusiasm, but things are looking good for jingoistic, old-fart politicians and ambitious officers.

The majority of the poor goobers over there joined for employment and/or BS training promises.

Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. Boy, when I fuck up, I really fuck up.
I learned a good lesson though, never cast a vote based on hate and disgust

iconoclast  posted on  2009-10-08   13:32:44 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: Cynicom (#17)

Photo was posed for maximum effect, hidden face, black minority, bibles in prominance for PARENTS AND WIVES TO SEE.

I just saw a soldier praying until you pointed out his race.

Obviously I need to sharpen my racial profiling skills.

TooConservative  posted on  2009-10-08   13:39:55 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: Horse (#0)

American soldiers serving in Afghanistan are depressed and deeply disillusioned...

Many feel that they are risking their lives — and that colleagues have died — for a futile mission and an Afghan population that does nothing to help them.

'Operation: DESTROY AMERICAN MILITARY MORALE' is working to perfection...

Of course our guys realize they've been hung out to dry by the Commie Street Organizer who despises them. At least Dubya acted as though he cared about whatever the fake missions and stategery were, and actually inspired the troops. Let's put it THIS way: Barry Soetoro will NOT be serving Turkey in A-Stan or A-Rock this Thanksgiving.

Oh...and the NWO continues to call ALL the shots...and have since 9/11.

Liberator  posted on  2009-10-08   13:57:40 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: Cynicom (#17)

There is MUCH to be gleaned here other than the intended message to Obama and this corrupt government.

This was arranged for the BRITISH media, not American, THAT TELLS US AND OBAMA MUCH.

Photo was posed for maximum effect, hidden face, black minority, bibles in prominance for PARENTS AND WIVES TO SEE.

This is the very bottom of the Army speaking the only way they know how.

This has to shake Obama and the top of the military to the core.

Note the AF and Navy are saying nothing, because they are not dying and bleeding.

Niiiice analysis.

Liberator  posted on  2009-10-08   13:59:26 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: Jethro Tull (#28)

"How to kill a Great Nation and Its Military in 9 Easy Months," By Barack Hussein Obama.

As Told By Bill Ayers

Chapter I: Crushing an Economy

Chapter II: Standing With Dictators While Democracy Protesters Die in the Street

Chapter III: How to Kill Troop Morale

Brilliant, brilliant post.

beyond the sea  posted on  2009-10-08   14:07:24 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: Sam Houston, all (#22)

The main reason they are there is to PREVENT the Taliban from once again engaging in wholesale eradication and destruction of the poppy crops. The hundreds of billions derived from the heroin trade are helping prop up what's left of the Western banks, plus the intel agencies are always taking a huge cut of the narco trade to fund black ops.

Plausible - even partially a reason for their presence in A-Stan, but I believe it's far more nefarious than that; IMO US troop are in A-Stan TO BE RIDICULED and chopped to pieces...(it sure doesn't help that they realize their mission may be that of merely protecting a drug industry.)

This is Barry's and the NWO Elite's version of the Bataan Death March in order to neuter the morale and emasculate reputation of the US military - THE symbol of American Might.

Liberator  posted on  2009-10-08   14:10:29 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: Jethro Tull (#28)

There ya go. BINGO.

QUESTIONS:

IF/WHEN do the Patriots in high places within the American Machine realize their 50 pieces of Silver just aren't worth selling their souls over?

Who will be the American von Stauffenberg?

Liberator  posted on  2009-10-08   14:16:12 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: Jethro Tull (#28)

"How to kill a Great Nation and Its Military in 9 Easy Months," By Barack Hussein Obama.

As Told By Bill Ayers

Chapter I: Crushing an Economy

Chapter II: Standing With Dictators While Democracy Protesters Die in the Street

Chapter III: How to Kill Troop Morale

Are you implying Bush was a co-author??

mininggold  posted on  2009-10-08   14:23:28 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: Liberator (#52)

Niiiice analysis.

I have more than a passing interest in photo analysis.

Cynicom  posted on  2009-10-08   14:35:33 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: TooConservative (#50)

I just saw a soldier praying until you pointed out his race.

If you look closely you will see the black soldier has his arms wrapped around his face to ensure there is NO identification.

That is NOT a normal posture for praying.

Cynicom  posted on  2009-10-08   14:37:13 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: TwentyTwelve (#40)

Captain Sam Rico, chaplain on the reason for low morale:

"The troops feel like sitting ducks."

Ya think??

If Bush's RoE were unreasonably restrictive - and they were - the Street Thug-in-Chief's RoE are suicidal....BY DESIGN.

Liberator  posted on  2009-10-08   15:53:47 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: Cynicom, All (#58)

I took a break from my sewing a short while ago and was quite surprised to see a discussion on FoxNews regarding this article. Matter of fact, Judith Miller, who used to work for NY Times, specifically stated, "The President has to do something about this NOW." My, my ... and to think that came out of the mouth of a liberal!!! She further added that the POTUS had too often compromised on other decisions and hoped he wouldn't do so with this issue.

Phant2000  posted on  2009-10-08   16:00:29 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: Cynicom (#57)

I have more than a passing interest in photo analysis.

How so?

Btw, I've just re-analyzed that photo....

The black soldier...the Bibles strewn in its pews...suggesting the responsibility of a "Christian" war against non-whites and non-Christians....and betrayal by his "real oppressors" - Whitey and his religion.

The body language is demonstrating fear, shame, insecurity, and/or remorse....

Liberator  posted on  2009-10-08   16:01:30 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: Phant2000, All (#60)

"The President has to do something about this NOW."

One wonders how long MSM can ignore this story????

I look for a modified withdrawal of some kind, to obscure the bind Obama is in.

There is no alternative. Tread water for a few months until the American rubes forget all about it.

Plus roll a few heads in the military on the sly.

Cynicom  posted on  2009-10-08   16:03:42 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: Liberator (#61)

How so?

Lets just say from experience.

The story would go nowhere without the photo. whoever set it up played all the angles and did a masterful job. to boot, one man has the courage to stand up and tell it like it is,Capt. Rico.

Bless the peons.

Cynicom  posted on  2009-10-08   16:06:13 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: Phant2000 (#60)

Judith Miller, who used to work for NY Times, specifically stated, "The President has to do something about this NOW." My, my ... and to think that came out of the mouth of a liberal!!! She further added that the POTUS had too often compromised on other decisions and hoped he wouldn't do so with this issue.

Don't be fooled by any singular ambiguity by the Left...

By "do something," Miller means "pull out of A-Stan YESTERDAY" and "Free Che!"

I'm sure those "other decisions" Miller alluded to were ALL liberal/Left issues like as I mentioned:

Pulling out of A-Stan and I-Rock on January 21, 2009, closing down Gitmo on the same day, indicting Cheney for "War Crimes," not appointing a Gay Marriage Czar, the elimination of "Don't Ax Don't Tell," 0bamaCare, and the rest of his Leftist Agenda.

Liberator  posted on  2009-10-08   16:09:50 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: Liberator (#64)

Don't be fooled by any singular ambiguity by the Left...

I dont think any thinking person is fooled. MSM has ignored this story all day and now must acknowledge what cannot be hidden.

Cynicom  posted on  2009-10-08   16:14:30 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#66. To: Cynicom (#62)

One wonders how long MSM can ignore this story????

They've ignored Tea Parties, 0bama ghost writer Ayers, Wright, Rangel, and ACORN....What make you think this is "worthy" of NYT "news"?

There's NO story they have to "report" - especially not one that reflect badly on the Community Organizer and his cabal.

Liberator  posted on  2009-10-08   16:17:08 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: Liberator (#64)

By "do something," Miller means "pull out of A-Stan YESTERDAY" and "Free Che!"

No, Lib ... she actually referred to the "number of troops requested" and hoped he wouldn't "comprosise" what was requested. As for the other issues, yes, they were liberal/left, but not all were.

Phant2000  posted on  2009-10-08   16:19:36 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#68. To: Cynicom (#58)

That is NOT a normal posture for praying.

I'm not in the business of judging prayer postures.

I would say my impression is that of a childlike prayer posture. But there is no kneeler or back of a pew or a table either. Of course, I didn't even notice his hands were black or his hair African-curly so you can't go far by my observations. :)

TooConservative  posted on  2009-10-08   16:22:25 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#69. To: Liberator (#66)

....What make you think this is "worthy" of NYT "news"?

I dont think anything, that is your opinion.

The story and facts speak for themselves. The rest is up for you to decide.

Cynicom  posted on  2009-10-08   16:22:51 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#70. To: Cynicom (#65)

I dont think any thinking person is fooled. MSM has ignored this story all day and now must acknowledge what cannot be hidden.

No, no thinking person is fooled...but the MSM already knows they've lost them; It's the sheeple who must remain in the dark. NOT reporting the extent of the truth is still effective for them in a numbers-game.

Liberator  posted on  2009-10-08   16:23:45 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#71. To: TooConservative (#68)

I'm not in the business of judging prayer postures.

When the photo is "staged" you should be.

Do you recall the Pueblo years ago in North Korea????

Many people overlooked that in the first photo, two enlisted men had their hands on their knees and were giving the upside down finger to the Koreans???????

Cynicom  posted on  2009-10-08   16:26:20 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#72. To: Cynicom (#69)

The story and facts speak for themselves. The rest is up for you to decide.

Yes, for US and "thinking persons." WE have already made our respective opinions known.

It's the military who presents the Street Organizer and his perverse policy-makers his greatest challenge with respect to "the truth."

Liberator  posted on  2009-10-08   16:26:46 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#73. To: Liberator (#70)

All of this was intended for the Pentagon and Oval office. It will bring the desired results. Like the lady said, Obama must do something NOW.

Cynicom  posted on  2009-10-08   16:27:42 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#74. To: Phant2000 (#67)

No, Lib ... she actually referred to the "number of troops requested" and hoped he wouldn't "comprosise" what was requested.

Really?

Hey - If some Lefties are beginning to question the "wisdom" and judgment of Dear Leader, it may just begin opening their eyes on other issues.

Liberator  posted on  2009-10-08   16:35:28 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#75. To: Cynicom (#73)

All of this was intended for the Pentagon and Oval office. It will bring the desired results. Like the lady said, Obama must do something NOW.

If the pose of the picture was played straight, you may be right; But would President Ayers be affected by this?

Liberator  posted on  2009-10-08   16:37:58 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#76. To: TooConservative (#68)

Of course, I didn't even notice his hands were black or his hair African-curly so you can't go far by my observations. :)

In 0bama-Land, we've been conditioned to question whether the night sky is "black" or African-American" or whether The Monkees were a racist group from the 60s ;-)

Gone for most of us are the days when we saw "people." Are you telling me you haven't noticed that on most TV shows commercials, the "Boss" or "Captain," or Judge, or "Leader" is now black or female?

Liberator  posted on  2009-10-08   16:45:39 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#77. To: Liberator (#75)

If the pose of the picture was played straight, you may be right;

When names and statements such as Rico are appended, it was sent as a message.

The General gave them a message a month ago, now the people at the bottom have spoken. The Pentagon is wondering if there is a thread linking the two, and if so, how strong. This has to send chills down the backs of the stalwart heros sitting safely in their easy chairs.

Ayers??? I would suggest it goes well over and beyond his head, a warning to the entire system if you will. These men at the bottom have put their heads on the chopping block, they are at risk. The general can resign, walk any day and get a full pension. What do the peons have to look forward to??? My odds would be that the military will try to hang them either overtly are covertly, one way or the other.

Cynicom  posted on  2009-10-08   16:45:47 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#78. To: Cynicom, TooConservative (#71)

Many people overlooked that in the first photo, two enlisted men had their hands on their knees and were giving the upside down finger to the Koreans???????

Liberator  posted on  2009-10-08   16:51:08 ET  (3 images) [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#79. To: Liberator (#78) (Edited)

Excellent.

I recall the Hillary one.

By the way, the men of the Pueblo were beaten when it came out in our media about the fingers and what they meant.

Cynicom  posted on  2009-10-08   16:55:40 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#80. To: Cynicom (#77)

When names and statements such as Rico are appended, it was sent as a message.

The General gave them a message a month ago, now the people at the bottom have spoken. The Pentagon is wondering if there is a thread linking the two, and if so, how strong. This has to send chills down the backs of the stalwart heros sitting safely in their easy chairs...

These men at the bottom have put their heads on the chopping block, they are at risk. The general can resign, walk any day and get a full pension. What do the peons have to look forward to??? My odds would be that the military will try to hang them either overtly are covertly, one way or the other.

From the bottom of the rung, this could certainly be their only card left to play before they are sacrificed on the "Altar of Bush's War." 0bama's Dims are HOPING to frame the debacle as "Bush's Fault" and "War" and at the same time destroy morale. For them it's a "Two-fer."

The Dim-controlled media has covered up for the Kenyan from Chicago for as long as they could; Some leaks are springing, but in the past the MSM has been able to plug most of them up...

The battle within the Pentagon and the strife between NWO-Commie moles vs. pro-sovereignty career Big Guys is intriguing; How many are willing to toss away their careers and golden parachutes over ideology is an unknown factor.

Public or behind the scenes "hangings" for insubordination?? Too many witnesses. Too messy. MIA or coincidental "accidents" will send the same message.

Liberator  posted on  2009-10-08   17:26:38 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#81. To: Cynicom (#79)

By the way, the men of the Pueblo were beaten when it came out in our media about the fingers and what they meant.

Our good ol' media - ALWAYS on our side. /s

Ernie Pyle would have kicked Geraldo's azz all over Iraq.

Liberator  posted on  2009-10-08   17:28:37 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#82. To: Liberator (#81)

Ernie Pyle would have kicked Geraldo's azz all over Iraq.

If you do not recall Pueblo, there were many people that said the men should not have given the finger to the Koreans.

And the Navy tried to hang the Captain and some crew.

Cynicom  posted on  2009-10-08   17:40:20 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#83. To: Horse (#0)

Who really wants to fight for the New Communist World Order - Feral Reserve Famblies - Illegal Shadow duhhhhmeriKan government ?

September 11, 2001 was an inside job; now the troops are figuring it out.

Which means none of them will be coming back alive...


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-10-08   17:47:19 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#84. To: Liberator (#81)

Re the Pueblo...

"And the number one thing you may not have known about the Pueblo is what happened to the men when they returned. Despite receiving a hero's welcome on December 24, the euphoria did not last. That same day, the Navy created a board of inquiry. Hearings started in January, involving the testimony of the crew. Commander Bucher and Lieutenant Harris were recommended to be court-martialed.

Cynicom  posted on  2009-10-08   17:48:05 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#85. To: Rotara (#83)

Which means none of them will be coming back alive...

If alive...they will be ruined for life...due to the war mongers.

Cynicom  posted on  2009-10-08   17:49:14 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#86. To: Cynicom (#84)

Do you recall the Pueblo's Sister Ship that was in the vicinity at the time ?


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-10-08   17:56:36 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#87. To: Rotara (#86)

Do you recall the Pueblo's Sister Ship that was in the vicinity at the time ?

No... Have no recall on that, memory is full of holes.

Cynicom  posted on  2009-10-08   17:59:18 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#88. To: Cynicom (#85)

If alive...they will be ruined for life...due to the war mongers.

It's time they stand up and say "HELL NO !".


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-10-08   17:59:35 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#89. To: Rotara (#88)

Did you run an inquisitive eye over the photo????

Cynicom  posted on  2009-10-08   18:01:44 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#90. To: Cynicom (#87)

Since January 20 the court had met for more than two hundred hours to hear one hundred and four witnesses (eighty-one in open session) provide 3,392 single-spaced, legal-sized pages of testimony. The admirals had flown to Norfolk, Virginia, to inspect Pueblo's sister ship, Palm Beach. To be sure, they had not dug into "all the facts and circumstances" surrounding the incident, They had not summoned shipyard officials from Bremerton or the Commander, Service Force, Pacific Fleet, Rear Admiral Edwin B. Hooper, from Hawaii, or even the former Commander-in-Chief, Pacific, Admiral U. S. Grant Sharp, who was living in retirement in San Diego. Nor had they solicited testimony from anyone at the Naval Ships Systems Command, or the National Security Agency, or the Defense Intelligence Agency, or the Office of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. "These agencies were simply beyond my cognizance," Admiral Bowen remembers. "I didn't have the horsepower to take on the entire U.S. Government." He and his colleagues had assumed from the beginning-correctly, as it turned out Congress would probe into the "why" of the Pueblo affair, that their job was simply to determine what happened. (Armbrister)

My Uncle was a Senior Intelligence Officer on the Palm Beach at the time...

more linked above


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-10-08   18:02:10 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#91. To: Horse, alll (#0)

Different pile.....

"KILL EVERYBODY" - US ARMY SPECIALIST DARRELL ANDERSON EXPOSES US POLICY "I joined in '03," 'cause I was broke, I needed money, but I was a young American kid, I wanted to fight in a war. I joined up. [A] month out of training I arrived in Baghdad, Iraq, January '04. Saddam's been captured. And I get there and the guys I'm serving with have been there for six months already; they were there in '03. And I go, "Well, you know what, I think it's come out that, you know, these people had nothing to do with 9/11, there was no Iraqi on those planes. We can see around here there's no Al Qaida, there's no terrorist syndicates in Baghdad, or Iraq. Saddam had stamped 'em out." And I asked my buddies, "Well, you know, we're here to find 'weapons of mass destruction'." And they laughed at me. And I said, "Well, you know, we're here to 'help the people.'" And they laughed at me. And I said, "What's our mission? What's our goal?"...They're like, "All we're trying to do is make it home alive..." Anderson describes the escalation of violence against unarmed civilians: "In April, they told us, "In a crowded area, if one person shoots at you, kill everybody." Anderson explains the rationale from the officers: "They [members of the crowd of people] are letting them [the person or persons firing at the U.S. military] attack you. They're no longer innocent if they're there at the time of the crime..." (9/11 conference, Chandler AZ Feb 23-25, 2007) 911TV.org / snowshoefilms post-production/ 9:46

Some relevant background: In trying to suppress the Yugoslavian resistance, Nazi Gen. Keitel, supreme commander of the armed forces, issued this order in Sept. 1941: "In order to nip disorders in the bud the sternest measures must be applied at the first sign of insurrection. It should also be taken into consideration that in the countries in question a human life is often valueless. In a reprisal for the life of a German soldier, the general rule should be capital punishment for 50-100 Communists. The manner of execution must have a frightening effect."

Perhaps the American generals, the neo-cons, and the new world order planners who direct them are copying the Nazi playbook. More likely, though, they are progressing along parallel lines because they've committed the same egregious war crimes; they can only compound their crimes until they "kill everybody" who resists them. The Yugoslavian partisans fighting German fascism were called "communists." Today, U.S. fascism calls that same resistance in Iraq and Afghanistan "terrorist." Gen. Keitel was hanged for this and other war crimes by the Nuremberg Tribunal on October 16, 1946. http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/...

After 7 months in Iraq, Darrell Anderson, 22, decided that he wasn't to risk going back to Iraq to kill or be killed. He fled to Canada, a deserter. While there, though, he felt he wasn't doing enough to expose and stop the war and returned to U.S. and, possibly, a long prison sentence. Perhaps to undermine the legal case of other deserters in Canada, the U.S. military imprisoned Anderson only a few days, releasing him with a 'less than honorable' discharge. Given Anderson's heroic determination to organize and help GI and other war resisters, the U.S. military may come to believe they've made a mistake. 911TV.org / www.SNOWSHOEFILMS.COM

Yor Yevrah updates: PSDplat asks, "wtf does he [Darrel Anderson] mean, 'expose 911'?" Good question. Anderson, gung-ho when he got to Iraq, quickly learned that Saddam had nothing to do with Sept. 11. It takes a while longer to come to grips with the deeper lie that 9/11 was an inside job. Defenders of the official conspiracy theory (19 Arab hijackers) enable the inside-job perpetrators to get away with their crimes and cover-up and to continue the mother of all hate crimes, the racist, genocidal, global and ersatz "war on terror".

One indication that a person's belief system (cognition) is unsound and unstable (and manipulated) is his use of ad hominem attacks (name calling) in a desperate attempt to repress an impinged perspective. CereaLVII, for example, indicates he himself is in a high state of cognitive dissonance (denial). If his belief system was secure he wouldn't be provoked into calling Darrell Anderson a "pussy," and so forth.


"The trouble with people is not that they don't know but that they know so much that ain't so." ~ Josh Billings

wudidiz  posted on  2009-10-08   18:02:14 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#92. To: Cynicom (#89)

Which photo my friend ?


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-10-08   18:03:47 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#93. To: wudidiz (#91)

Yor Yevrah updates: PSDplat asks, "wtf does he [Darrel Anderson] mean, 'expose 911'?" Good question. Anderson, gung-ho when he got to Iraq, quickly learned that Saddam had nothing to do with Sept. 11. It takes a while longer to come to grips with the deeper lie that 9/11 was an inside job. Defenders of the official conspiracy theory (19 Arab hijackers) enable the inside-job perpetrators to get away with their crimes and cover-up and to continue the mother of all hate crimes, the racist, genocidal, global and ersatz "war on terror".

bump


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-10-08   18:05:51 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#94. To: Rotara (#92)

The Afghan foto on this thread of the black soldier.

Cynicom  posted on  2009-10-08   18:05:57 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#95. To: Cynicom, Rotara (#94)


"The trouble with people is not that they don't know but that they know so much that ain't so." ~ Josh Billings

wudidiz  posted on  2009-10-08   18:14:06 ET  (1 image) [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#96. To: Cynicom (#94)

This one:


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-10-08   18:14:39 ET  (1 image) [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#97. To: Cynicom, Rotara (#89)

Did you run an inquisitive eye over the photo????

The flag?


"The trouble with people is not that they don't know but that they know so much that ain't so." ~ Josh Billings

wudidiz  posted on  2009-10-08   18:17:00 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#98. To: wudidiz, Cynicom (#97)

Aye, the flag...oy vey, goyim gone bad.

(To the tune: Bad Boyz)

"Bad goy, bad goy, whattzu gonna do, whattzu gonna do when the truth rings true..."


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-10-08   18:19:20 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#99. To: wudidiz (#97)

Post 28

Cynicom  posted on  2009-10-08   18:21:24 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#100. To: Cynicom (#99)

Do you mean the flag on the sleeve of the soldier in #95?


"The trouble with people is not that they don't know but that they know so much that ain't so." ~ Josh Billings

wudidiz  posted on  2009-10-08   18:29:26 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#101. To: wudidiz (#100)

POST 28 THE BLACK SOLDIER.

Cynicom  posted on  2009-10-08   18:35:14 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#102. To: wudidiz (#100)

Are you looking at the american flag?

Cynicom  posted on  2009-10-08   18:38:53 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#103. To: Cynicom (#102)

Affirmative.


"The trouble with people is not that they don't know but that they know so much that ain't so." ~ Josh Billings

wudidiz  posted on  2009-10-08   18:49:10 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#104. To: Jethro Tull (#11)

It is unfair to blame Obama for this. He got stuck with two no-win wars from the Bush Admistration --- and lots of Republican shrapnel about how evil it would be to "cut and run". Additionally, we do owe something to our allies in the coalition for joining with us, and we owe something to the civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan for wrecking what little they had. So Obama is wrestling with an octopus; how to end the war without being called names for it. (I used the octopus metaphor because I thought the more appropriate reference to Uncle Remus' tar baby would be seen as racially insensitive.)

Shoonra  posted on  2009-10-08   19:41:51 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#105. To: Shoonra (#104)

It is unfair to blame Obama for this. He got stuck with two no-win wars from the Bush Admistration

Wrong.

If you re read his talks before he became president, he stated many times that Afghanistan would be his point of interest in fighting "terror".

Afghan is his burden.

Cynicom  posted on  2009-10-08   20:45:28 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#106. To: Cynicom (#71)

When the photo is "staged" you should be.

Do you recall the Pueblo years ago in North Korea????

Many people overlooked that in the first photo, two enlisted men had their hands on their knees and were giving the upside down finger to the Koreans???

You're switching from one conspiracy theory to the next too quickly for me to follow. Are you saying the soldier was sending a secret message or that the photographer was staging a phony scene of a soldier praying?

Pick one conspiracy and stick with it. I don't see exactly where there is any real propaganda payoff with a Brit audience one way or the other and this story will have very limited impact in the States either way.

TooConservative  posted on  2009-10-09   7:20:47 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#107. To: Liberator (#78)

If you're off into the world of secret handshakes, you've lost me.

TooConservative  posted on  2009-10-09   7:22:21 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#108. To: TooConservative (#106)

You're switching from one conspiracy theory to the next too quickly for me to follow. Are you saying the soldier was sending a secret message or that the photographer was staging a phony scene of a soldier praying?

Sorry to confuse, I can see you were never in the photo analysis business.

When I used the term "staged" I did not mean to infer "phony". It was put together for maximum effect, what they did was heroic in my book, God bless them for it. Way more than we talkers will ever do to stop this madness.

Now, the article without the photograph would have gotten little attention. These gentlemen knew they were risking their military careers in speaking up. In doing so, they wanted maximum gain for the risk. It was the only way to go and I would have done the same. It was a masterful presentation.

So good that if one takes time, there are many messages there, intended or not, that they wished conveyed, and convey it did.

Does that help or not????

Cynicom  posted on  2009-10-09   9:41:52 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#109. To: TooConservative (#106)

Pick one conspiracy and stick with it. I don't see exactly where there is any real propaganda payoff with a Brit audience one way or the other and this story will have very limited impact in the States either way.

Okay.

What do you think the chances were that ANY American MSM would have carried the story and the photos???? I would say nil and to back that up, we saw negative coverage AFTER the story broke. It was NEVER intended for Brit consumption, it was their only safe outlet.

They evidently had a friend in the Times people present. I would say they used the ONLY possible outlet. would you or I have trusted American MSM on the ground there??? I would not.

Cynicom  posted on  2009-10-09   9:46:31 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#110. To: Horse, all (#0)

If you browse the political websites like TOS1 and TOS2, you will see the blood dancers showing their contempt for the troops by badmouthing the soldiers in this article. They only support the troops if those troops are willing to shed the blood that allows the blood dancers to dance their jig.

What really amazes me though is people like Joe Snuffy on TOS2. This is a guy that claims to be a Vietnam War vet and who has on many occasion talked about the waste that war was, and yet here he is bad mouthing those soldiers who have woke up to the same realization about this war. Him and his ilk are real pieces of shit. At least in his war there was a draft and everyone theoretically had the opportunity to be sent over there. Unlike the Vietnam War, today's war sends the same soldiers over and over and over again. And yet this yahoo and those like him turn on them in a heart beat if they stand up and say enough is enough. The soldiers know that there isn't a damned soul in Afghanistan worth the life of a single soldier. It's a shame that the Joe Snuffy's of the world are so unwilling to see that.

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976

The purpose of the legal system is to protect the elites from the wrath of those they plunder.- Elliott Jackalope

F.A. Hayek Fan  posted on  2009-10-09   10:02:25 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#111. To: Hayek Fan (#110)

What really amazes me though is people like Joe Snuffy on TOS2.

I posted to him but he did not reply.

If he is indeed a Viet vet, I do not understand him at all.

Cynicom  posted on  2009-10-09   10:07:35 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#112. To: Cynicom (#109)

What do you think the chances were that ANY American MSM would have carried the story and the photos???? I would say nil and to back that up, we saw negative coverage AFTER the story broke. It was NEVER intended for Brit consumption, it was their only safe outlet.

Huh? This is the Times of London.

Anyway, the only mention I've seen is a sympathetic reading of the article by Shep Smith yesterday in his afternoon show. So, what, maybe a few hundred thousand Americans heard of it? Compared to millions of Britons who undoubtedly did.

TooConservative  posted on  2009-10-09   13:35:38 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#113. To: Hayek Fan (#110)

If you browse the political websites like TOS1 and TOS2, you will see the blood dancers showing their contempt for the troops by badmouthing the soldiers in this article. They only support the troops if those troops are willing to shed the blood that allows the blood dancers to dance their jig.

You're captured their mentality pretty well.

As the war rages on, the soldiers are fighting with their rifles for freedom in Af-Pak and these folks are fighting right along with their keyboards on the home front. They're almost brothers in arms really. You'd think they would start awarding a Medal of Honor to the biggest warmongers, offer Purple Hearts for those who broke a nail while typing.

TooConservative  posted on  2009-10-09   13:38:53 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#114. To: Shoonra, WEASEL MIKE, corn flake ferret (#104)

It is unfair to blame Obama for this. He got stuck with two no-win wars from the Bush Admistration --- and lots of Republican shrapnel about how evil it would be to "cut and run". Additionally, we do owe something to our allies in the coalition for joining with us, and we owe something to the civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan for wrecking what little they had. So Obama is wrestling with an octopus; how to end the war without being called names for it. (I used the octopus metaphor because I thought the more appropriate reference to Uncle Remus' tar baby would be seen as racially insensitive.)

How can anyone be as FULL of SHIT as you are ??


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-10-09   13:49:20 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#115. To: Rotara (#114)

Wasn't the Kenyan selected by brain dead goofs based on a series of speeches he gave offering HOPE we'd leave Iraq?

PS: We're a year into his first term and we still have 150k troops there. Do these leftist pigs love war as much as the Bushies? (Sorry for the rhetorical question).

Jethro Tull  posted on  2009-10-09   13:57:50 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#116. To: Rotara (#114)

Better, now what is at least the date/time stamp and owner of the quote? Give me that and I will be able to respond to this post of yours'. ;-)


Ferret Mike  posted on  2009-10-09   14:05:32 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#117. To: Jethro Tull (#115)

He never said he'd act in contradiction to the advice of the commanders of our operations there. Which is why people like Cindy Sheehan never signed on with support for him to be elected.

What I see by his policies in both theaters of operation is an awareness that satisfying either the Neocons or Code Pink is a sure fire route to political oblivion.

I served in the U.S. Army for about nine years total. I am a firm believer that once started, disengagement from a war is more complicated and harder than starting one. If he fails to get to the point where we are out of Iraq and do not see the light at the end of the tunnel in Afghanistan, his potential to be re-elected will be compromised.

That much I am happy to give you, because it is true enough. ;-)


Ferret Mike  posted on  2009-10-09   14:15:44 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#118. To: Ferret Mike (#117)

He never said he'd act in contradiction to the advice of the commanders of our operations there.

He's acting in contradiction to the bogus peace prize he just received. Obama is every bit the murdering, blood coated thug politician Bush (43), Clinton, Bush (41), Reagan, Ford, Nixon, etc were. Wake up from your idolization of political psychotics and look at what is right and wrong.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2009-10-09   14:25:06 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#119. To: Jethro Tull (#118)

Wake up from your idolization of political psychotics and look at what is right and wrong.

Until people realize that the government is the enemy, that there is but one party, t he party of the ruling elite, there cannot be a change for the better in this country.

Believing in and supporting the two party system is exactly what Americans have been programmed to do. Sad.

Cynicom  posted on  2009-10-09   14:29:36 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#120. To: Jethro Tull (#118)

Actually, Bush was very pigheaded with his "I'm the decider and if you don't like it, tough" attitude.

Obama is far more sensitive to the process of input and pro-active advocacy of peace. We agree on the point that President Obama needs to have his feet kept to the fire to remember it is the American people ultimately who have the say on whether we stay in either country militarily or not.

I do want to see these troops come home and the wars ended. But I don't want a short term gain of peace to the detriment of our security in the future.

If he works to satisfy the first mentioned objective while making sure the second is not ignored, he will be doing his job.

The biggest worry I have is how his lack of brass in dealing with Israeli Zionists will be the pulled thread that unravels what he is trying to knit.

Unless he gets on the learning curve where he realizes the depth and scope of the Israeli factor that threatens to boil things over, all he is trying to do could be for nothing.


Ferret Mike  posted on  2009-10-09   14:38:04 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#121. To: Ferret Mike (#120)

Actually, Bush was very pigheaded with his "I'm the decider and if you don't like it, tough" attitude.

Still hopelessly trapped in what they say, rather than what they do.

My premise stands; Obama is every bit as blood soaked as any of his contemporaries. Just deal with it.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2009-10-09   14:41:21 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#122. To: Ferret Mike (#117)

What I see by his policies in both theaters of operation is an awareness that satisfying either the Neocons or Code Pink is a sure fire route to political oblivion.

Huh?? What "policies"?? What "awareness"?

The ONLY "policy" or "awareness" of B-HOE is about burying our guys in a cascade of their own blood, hanging them out to dry, and humiliating and embarrassing the US Armed Forces - the hood ornament of the U.S.A.

I served in the U.S. Army for about nine years total.

And that absolves you from naivete, dopey judgment, and blind faith in your so-called "leadership" from this Fraud-in-Chief??

I am a firm believer that once started, disengagement from a war is more complicated and harder than starting one. If he fails to get to the point where we are out of Iraq and do not see the light at the end of the tunnel in Afghanistan, his [0bama's] potential to be re-elected will be compromised.

NO Newsflash here Sherlock - extricating ourselves from either A-Stan or I-Rock on a dime was always going to be difficult. But where's the plan?? HELLO??!!

It is noted that whereas among your obvious first thoughts are with respect to the electability of your beloved co-Leftist 0bama over this debacle, mine are about the safety of our personnel and an actual of plan of operation that gets us TF out in a brisk fashion - while severely crippling the enemy to the max.

Liberator  posted on  2009-10-09   14:43:06 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#123. To: Ferret Mike (#120)

Actually, Bush was very pigheaded with his "I'm the decider and if you don't like it, tough" attitude.

Obama is far more sensitive to the process of input and pro-active advocacy of peace.

Quit trying to defend your man.

Obama is a big loser.

Open your eyes!

TwentyTwelve  posted on  2009-10-09   14:44:37 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#124. To: Ferret Mike (#120)

Obama is far more sensitive to the process of input and pro-active advocacy of peace.

You MUST be nuts. OR hittin' the 'srooms.

The biggest worry I have is how his lack of brass in dealing with Israeli Zionists will be the pulled thread that unravels what he is trying to knit.

LOL - "biggest threat" is WHAT??

Yep, 'shrooms.

Liberator  posted on  2009-10-09   14:45:23 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#125. To: TwentyTwelve, Ferret Barry (#123)

Quit trying to defend your man.

Obama is a big loser.

Open your eyes!

LOL - this frickin' guy is all but singing Tammy Wynette over B-HO's treasonous idiocy...

But maybe he can't swallow and keep his eyes open at the same time.

Liberator  posted on  2009-10-09   14:48:13 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#126. To: Jethro Tull, Rotara (#115)

Wasn't the Kenyan selected by brain dead goofs based on a series of speeches he gave offering HOPE we'd leave Iraq?

That was certainly ONE of the reasons he was elected by the pod-people.

If he were honest he should have at least run on a "I'll-Eff-the-Troops" campaign promise.

Creepy treasonous Mo-Fo.

Liberator  posted on  2009-10-09   14:52:30 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#127. To: Jethro Tull (#121)

And I say I hear what you are saying and I respect your worries. But my contention is that the jury is still out on whether he is wrong in walking the centerline of the road on these wars started by Neocons. And if so, will he correct course, or will he be hit by traffic, as that is always the jeopardy of the centerline.

I am willing to give him the benefit of doubt for now, and this is due to my belief system which whether I like it or not was molded by my experience in the military.

Rest assured though, that if you prove to be more right then I am right now in October of 2009 as his term progresses, I won't be shy about admitting it.

I never hero worship just because I vote for someone, as it is easier to win a presidency than it ever is to keep the office for a second term. Just ask Jimmy - the hostage crisis ate my brain - Carter. ;-)


Ferret Mike  posted on  2009-10-09   14:53:07 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#128. To: Liberator (#125)

"Ferret Barry"

Why thanks dear boy. I do indeed admire Barry Goldwater dispite any political differences I had with that great Arizona senator. Now, how on Earth did you know that? ;-D


Ferret Mike  posted on  2009-10-09   14:55:18 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#129. To: Jethro Tull (#121)

Obama is every bit as blood soaked as any of his contemporaries.

One HUGE difference; This sadistic, treacherous SOB is actually reveling in the blood and getting off on it; The Muslim-in-Chief even may be building a Blood Altar mosque in the White House basement for all we know.

Liberator  posted on  2009-10-09   14:57:08 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#130. To: Ferret Mike (#127)

I am willing to give him the benefit of doubt for now..

Time has run out for Obummer to prove himself.

This joker is the biggest liar in history.

How many more lies are you waiting for?

TwentyTwelve  posted on  2009-10-09   14:58:08 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#131. To: Ferret Barry, Jethro Tull (#127)

I am willing to give him [Barry Hussein O] the benefit of doubt for now, and this is due to my belief system....

Of course you give the treasonous-murderous Barry Hussein the "benefit of doubt" - you and he share the same warped core "belief system."

Liberator  posted on  2009-10-09   15:01:24 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#132. To: Ferret Mike, Cynicom, Liberator, all (#127)

But my contention is that the jury is still out on whether he is wrong in walking the centerline of the road on these wars started by Neocons

Mike, when a defense bill is offered to the members of both Houses of congress, and they like a family of mockingbirds all vote in the affirmative, the term neocon loses it's punch. A better choice of words is politician, and each and every one is a politician.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2009-10-09   15:02:21 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#133. To: Liberator (#129)

His popularity will be in the mid 40s come January/February.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2009-10-09   15:04:55 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#134. To: Liberator (#129)

Muslin-in-Chief

www.cuttingedge.org/news/n1224. cfm was his pick for Secretary of State.

sizzlerguy  posted on  2009-10-09   15:08:33 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#135. To: TwentyTwelve (#130)

Yes, I know your position on this. But thanks for sharing it again.

Perhaps my yard stick is just not the same as yours. And while you can rail at me for the care and time I use to measure President Obama's job performance, that won't change things.

One thing is certain, I will use my own standards to measure that as time moves forward.

Right now things are about as I expected them to be during the election season; there are good things and accomplishments that have happened and we are moving toward, and things that do not exactly make me happy.

The choice for president is a chess move in my mind. Which one of the two choices the system gives us will produce the best environment to get the most of what we need to happen? And that is a typical attitude for an activist from Eugene, Oregon to have, which I am. My views and belief system resonates with that of most my brethren here, though actually I tend to be a wee more conservative then most of them.

Because no woman or man will ever be a perfect POTUS, as too much of that determination is subjective, and no human being is or should be perfect. ;-)


Ferret Mike  posted on  2009-10-09   15:19:52 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#136. To: Liberator (#131) (Edited)

"Of course you give the treasonous-murderous Barry Hussein the 'benefit of doubt' - you and he share the same warped core 'belief system.'"

-- Quote re-punctuated for clarity ---

Well now, reference items of his system of beliefs such as that Muslims have the right to be American citizens and freely practice their religion here as per the First Amendment and legal rulings that have weight in enforcing this contention under the auspices of our system of law that operate under Stare Decisis. Which of course is the legal principle by which judges are obliged to obey the precedents established by prior decisions. Let us use this as an example to address your above quoted assertion.

Now, I know you hate all Muslim religious belief, and I assume you don't consider them 'real' Americans who deserve the right to be here or to worship as they believe. I assume as well you don't ever want to see a Muslim as POTUS, or feel Muslims should be in the U.S. Armed Forces, especially in the role as Chaplain.

I have Muslim friends, many of whom I got to know while working at Portland Saturday Market, including a retired Egyptian General who made his bones militarily by being a bright light of success in the dark blight of failure the Seven Day war turned out to be for Egypt. I also knew some very talented and dedicated Muslims in the U.S. Army.

I support the right for them to be here, to worship as they chose, to witness and promote their faith if they wish to, and their right to serve in the military here, or even for one to serve as president.

I submit my belief system in many ways adheres tighter to Constitutional law and even Founder's intent then yours' does. And I do so with the caveat of acknowledging my assumptions of your belief on this example my indeed be wrong.

I also submit you have a right to your belief system every bit as much as I have to mine. But I doubt you feel the same way here. It sounds to me in listening to you that you would feeel more comfortable seeing people like me suppressed and stifled. Just as sure as I am that if I am wrong here, that you will let me know that I am.


Ferret Mike  posted on  2009-10-09   15:45:05 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#137. To: WEASEL MIKE, miKe mKKarthy, ferret mike, corn flake lying COMMIE GREATER GOOD POS (#136)

I submit my belief system in many ways adheres tighter to Constitutional law and even Founder's intent then yours' does.

Your submissions have been found to not ONLY be 'lacking', but COMPLETELY delusional.

Again, to what do you attribute your mind-numbingly Traitorous and bereft of your dignity ???

You illegal alien invader loving, pissing on the Constitution, Marxist- collectivist RAT...


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-10-09   19:51:54 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#138. To: Rotara (#137)

Try answering from the brain next time. Answering from the gonads just gives you a really weird verbal salad of a post. My little lacking lackey of a brown boot licking loser. ;-D


Ferret Mike  posted on  2009-10-09   22:02:46 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#139. To: WEASEL MIKE (#138)

My Lord you're a dumb dense sick sack of shit.

That's about all you get, Traitor.


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-10-09   22:22:54 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#140. To: Rotara, ferret mike (#139)

To Mike: My Lord you're a dumb dense sick sack of shit.

I just thought I would take a moment of your time with this post and point out that Mike is your best friend.

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2009-10-09   22:25:50 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#141. To: OBAMALAMADINGDONGER SUCKING BOOT LICKER, ferret mike, shoonra, miKe mKKarthy, WEASEL MIKE, corn flaker (#138) (Edited)

How in the world can a boot licking syco like you take you seriously when you are the biggest cartoon on this website, Fobama butt licker ???


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-10-09   22:26:18 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#142. To: Rotara (#139)

Hey Rotara, why not "Bozo" that "bozo".?

sizzlerguy  posted on  2009-10-09   22:26:24 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#143. To: buckeroo (#140)

You hang out with shit stains like this but I wipe them off the planet, buck the filer...


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-10-09   22:27:00 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#144. To: Rotara (#143) (Edited)

That "bozo", buckeroo is already on my "bozo" list.

sizzlerguy  posted on  2009-10-09   22:27:58 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#145. To: Rotara (#141)

I object to your language and rudeness. I know you don't like Mike but this has got to stop.


"If, from the more wretched parts of the old world, we look at those which are in an advanced stage of improvement, we still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised, to furnish new pretenses for revenues and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without tribute." --Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, 1791

farmfriend  posted on  2009-10-09   22:29:09 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#146. To: Rotara, Original_Intent, christine, Ferret Mike, all (#141)

Honestly, I think you guys are a little hard on Mike.

Kinda juvenile in my opinion.

Reminds me too much of the likes of Byteshredder, yukon, E_Type_Jag, Mad Dog on LP.

Just my opinion, for what it's worth not that you asked for it.


"The trouble with people is not that they don't know but that they know so much that ain't so." ~ Josh Billings

wudidiz  posted on  2009-10-09   22:29:18 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#147. To: sizzlerguy (#142)

I like to keep up with the prey...actually I stay a few steps ahead of the dumb corn holers.

If I put ALL of the cock suckers on bozo I wouldn't appreciate the depths of the scum that must be eradicated from my nation.

it's just plain good recon...


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-10-09   22:30:04 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#148. To: farmfriend (#145)

I object to your language and rudeness. I know you don't like Mike but this has got to stop.

Fuck that Traitor and every one that stands with these heinous degenerates.

You aren't ready to lead, Maggie...


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-10-09   22:31:01 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#149. To: Rotara (#147)

I hear ya'

sizzlerguy  posted on  2009-10-09   22:31:11 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#150. To: Liberator (#129)

The Muslim-in-Chief even may be building a Blood Altar mosque in the White House basement for all we know.

Here, let me fix that for you:

The Jew-in-Chief even may be building a Blood Altar Synagouge in the White House basement for all we know.

TRAITORS TO AMERICA AND BRAINWASHED IDIOTS SUPPORT AND DEFEND ISRAEL. TO HELL WITH ZIONISTS AND THIER AMERICAN FRONTS: AIPAC/PNAC/ADL/JPCA/NAACP/CFR/FEDERAL RESERVE/NWO/SPLC/JINSA/ACLU/FPI/CHRISTIAN ZIONISTS/AEI/FEDERAL MEDIA/HOLLYWOOD, et. al.

wbales  posted on  2009-10-09   22:31:30 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#151. To: wudidiz (#146)

wud, you know I love you; but I haven't taken you seriously for numerous reasons for quite some time...


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-10-09   22:31:43 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#152. To: sizzlerguy (#149)

Thank God Almighty I know that THIS HERE isn't the best that THIS NATION has to offer for the recovery and renewed vibrance...


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-10-09   22:33:38 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#153. To: Rotara (#143)

I enjoy diversity, particularly with opinion. I loathe closet cases such as yourself.

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2009-10-09   22:34:38 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#154. To: Rotara (#148)

You aren't ready to lead, Maggie...

I am leading by example. You don't fight tyranny by being uncivilized and rude. You don't want to vote for me, fine don't vote for me.


"If, from the more wretched parts of the old world, we look at those which are in an advanced stage of improvement, we still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised, to furnish new pretenses for revenues and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without tribute." --Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, 1791

farmfriend  posted on  2009-10-09   22:35:59 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#155. To: buckeroo (#153)

I love hypocritical filing Feral Reserve two-faces such as you, buck.

Care to answer the question, USRael-funder ?


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-10-09   22:36:16 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#156. To: Rotara (#152)

Hey, what's the title of that movie, where the abused P.O.W. hung the flag upside down to get the warden busted.? That's a awesome flick.>>!!

sizzlerguy  posted on  2009-10-09   22:37:36 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#157. To: farmfriend (#154)

You, my olde friend, are deluded. But all the best...


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-10-09   22:37:37 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#158. To: Rotara (#157)

You, my olde friend, are deluded.

Why? Because I don't believe in being an ass?


"If, from the more wretched parts of the old world, we look at those which are in an advanced stage of improvement, we still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised, to furnish new pretenses for revenues and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without tribute." --Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, 1791

farmfriend  posted on  2009-10-09   22:38:29 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#159. To: sizzlerguy (#156)

I don't recall.


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-10-09   22:38:30 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#160. To: Rotara (#155)

So, not only are you a closet case but you love "two faces" such as me. WOW, aren't you hitting below the belt this evening?

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2009-10-09   22:40:12 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#161. To: farmfriend (#158)

#1 - because you believe that running a worthless campaign at this point will make a difference

#2 - because you have chosen to play nice with those that will gladly finish off you, your family and everyone like you

You do your thing and I'll do mine. Let's compare notes in 6 months.

(Of course, being a Lady is always commendable but we're beyond the bullshit if you will)


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-10-09   22:41:00 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#162. To: buckeroo (#160)

Filer or non filer you intellectually dishonest and phony SOB ?


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-10-09   22:41:49 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#163. To: buckeroo (#140)

Thanks Buckeroo. I trust he'll figure things out someday.


Ferret Mike  posted on  2009-10-09   22:43:30 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#164. To: buckeroo (#163)

Congratulations, now your affiliation with the enemy looks to be cemented.

Playing 'both sides' has always been your style, twinkie, but this one takes the cup-'cake'...


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-10-09   22:45:12 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#165. To: Rotara (#162)

What do you actually care? You think the world is here to satisfy your personal temper tantrum about a single poster, Mike.

You have no real issue with Mike. You only have issue(s) with yourself in the closet, watching yourself in a looking glass with the left hand while wanking off with the right.

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2009-10-09   22:45:36 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#166. To: buckeroo (#165)

Bullshit, schmuck.

You're complicit in the sham.

Go Fuck Yourself (as you quaintly say, cock smoking two-face).


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-10-09   22:46:55 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#167. To: Rotara (#166)

Go Fuck Yourself

I wager you do that all the time to yourself, correct?

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2009-10-09   22:48:12 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#168. To: Rotara (#161)

#1 - because you believe that running a worthless campaign at this point will make a difference

Even the IRA had a political side.

#2 - because you have chosen to play nice with those that will gladly finish off you, your family and everyone like you

I choose Buford Pusser's style.


"If, from the more wretched parts of the old world, we look at those which are in an advanced stage of improvement, we still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised, to furnish new pretenses for revenues and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without tribute." --Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, 1791

farmfriend  posted on  2009-10-09   22:48:48 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#169. To: buckeroo (#167)

You'll never answer the question because you know you're a hypocritical feral reserve slave that gladly participates versus taking a simple and real stand.

Fuck you, you worthless dying POS.


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-10-09   22:49:50 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#170. To: Rotara (#166)

You gonna let bucky talk to you that way?

In 2007, the FBI reported on concern about white supremacists recruiting soldiers, saying "hundreds" of neo-Nazis were in the active military. But in April, a Department of Homeland Security report on extremism that reiterated much the same point was widely criticized by veterans groups and some conservative politicians as being unpatriotic, leading the Justice Department to retract the DHS report.

Critics acknowledge that extremism in the Army is a touchy political subject.

Dakmar  posted on  2009-10-09   22:50:03 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#171. To: Rotara (#155)

Dude, I've been reading your posts over time and can only figure two possible things about you.

A) You've totally lost it and are WAY too eager for the STHTF, and are advertising your intent with wanton disregard.

B) You are an agent provocateur trying to entice people into saying something or doing something which could bring about a 4AM visit from black suited ninjas with automatic weapons.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2009-10-09   22:50:07 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#172. To: farmfriend (#168)

Even the IRA had a political side.

How did that work out, Maggie ?


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-10-09   22:50:21 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#173. To: farmfriend (#168)

I choose Buford Pusser's style.

You're a fool if you think it applies here.

I never thought you a fool, Maggie...


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-10-09   22:50:59 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#174. To: Rotara (#169)

Fuck you, you worthless dying POS.

Mind if I borrow that for my tagline?

In 2007, the FBI reported on concern about white supremacists recruiting soldiers, saying "hundreds" of neo-Nazis were in the active military. But in April, a Department of Homeland Security report on extremism that reiterated much the same point was widely criticized by veterans groups and some conservative politicians as being unpatriotic, leading the Justice Department to retract the DHS report.

Critics acknowledge that extremism in the Army is a touchy political subject.

Dakmar  posted on  2009-10-09   22:51:31 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#175. To: Dakmar (#170)

For now...


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-10-09   22:52:08 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#176. To: farmfriend (#158)

Rody reminds me of that Joe Haldermann legend in his own mind who's ego finally did him in. Only delusional sociopath bearers of intense hubris try a blackmail attempt like he did.

He indeed habitually acts like an ass Farmfriend, and he thinks his shit does not stink. And I have read him enough to give testimonial that it ready in fact does. To high whatever your Nirvana is.

Talk about twin sons from different mothers. ;-)


Ferret Mike  posted on  2009-10-09   22:52:40 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#177. To: Dakmar (#174)

D, I'd at least appreciate a reference...ehehe


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-10-09   22:52:42 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#178. To: farmfriend (#176)

Congratulations, Mag.

You're going to make it (somewhere) as a pol...

sheesh


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-10-09   22:53:35 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#179. To: Rotara (#151)

wud, you know I love you;

Thank you. It's mutual.

but I haven't taken you seriously for numerous reasons for quite some time...

Uh... like what?


"The trouble with people is not that they don't know but that they know so much that ain't so." ~ Josh Billings

wudidiz  posted on  2009-10-09   22:54:10 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#180. To: corn flake girl, WEASEL MIKE, miKe mKKarthy, ferret mike (#176)

I can only conclude that you have NO IDEA how fucked up you are.


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-10-09   22:54:45 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#181. To: wudidiz (#179)

See: your posts above


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-10-09   22:55:16 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#182. To: Rotara (#181)

See: your posts above

Oh.

You're gonna make me work for it.

Great.


"The trouble with people is not that they don't know but that they know so much that ain't so." ~ Josh Billings

wudidiz  posted on  2009-10-09   22:56:00 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#183. To: FormerLurker (#171)

"You are an agent provocateur trying to entice people into saying something or doing something which could bring about a 4AM visit from black suited ninjas with automatic weapons."

I had to laugh when this so called oath keeper, an organization with lots of cops in it called for the demise violently of all people like them.

He is a spectacle; one that is all ego and no brains.


Ferret Mike  posted on  2009-10-09   22:56:01 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#184. To: Rotara (#169)

Fuck you, you worthless dying POS.

My God! You sound like one of those cretins from the back hills attempting to have some fun with the boys as in Dueling Banjos.

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2009-10-09   22:56:26 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#185. To: Ferret Mike (#183)

I didn't hit it off well with him the first time I traded posts with him. That was over a year ago.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2009-10-09   22:57:32 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#186. To: corn flake shitstain, ferret mike, WEASEL MIKE (#183)

You seriously can NOT fathom why people want every POS like YOU deader than a doornail ???

SERIOUSLY ???????


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-10-09   22:57:59 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#187. To: Rotara (#173)

I never thought you a fool, Maggie...

Then why think me one now? Because I call you on your lack of decorum? Hardly grounds for the fool title. I would much rather see posts that say something. Of what value is repeatedly attacking anyone on an internet forum? It does nothing to educate the masses.


"If, from the more wretched parts of the old world, we look at those which are in an advanced stage of improvement, we still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised, to furnish new pretenses for revenues and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without tribute." --Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, 1791

farmfriend  posted on  2009-10-09   22:58:39 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#188. To: wudidiz (#182)

LOL

You silly Canuck.

I'll always love you; no matter twat.


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-10-09   22:58:47 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#189. To: buckeroo (#184)

Can't answer or won't answer ??


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-10-09   22:59:18 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#190. To: FormerLurker, Rotara (#171)

B) You are an agent provocateur trying to entice people into saying something or doing something which could bring about a 4AM visit from black suited ninjas with automatic weapons.

I'll go with 'B'.

In 2007, the FBI reported on concern about white supremacists recruiting soldiers, saying "hundreds" of neo-Nazis were in the active military. But in April, a Department of Homeland Security report on extremism that reiterated much the same point was widely criticized by veterans groups and some conservative politicians as being unpatriotic, leading the Justice Department to retract the DHS report.

Critics acknowledge that extremism in the Army is a touchy political subject.

Dakmar  posted on  2009-10-09   22:59:38 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#191. To: Rotara, Cynicom (#181)

See: your posts above

What?

About the flag?

Man, I hit the nail on the head with the flag question, didn't I?

Caught it before you did.


"The trouble with people is not that they don't know but that they know so much that ain't so." ~ Josh Billings

wudidiz  posted on  2009-10-09   22:59:41 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#192. To: Rotara (#180)

"I can only conclude that you have NO IDEA how fucked up you are.

Well, I guess since you are fucked up in a totally soup sandwich sort of way, you are just the boy to explain that to me then; aren't you? Rody, the buttercup of 4UM, explains it all. Story at 666.


Ferret Mike  posted on  2009-10-09   23:00:08 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#193. To: farmfriend (#187)

I'm not running for office, Mag.

I'm preparing for the final battle of this war.

Do you UNDERSTAND where we are ?


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-10-09   23:00:18 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#194. To: Rotara (#172)

How did that work out, Maggie ?

My point is that you don't put your compatriots down because they choose to fight in a different way.


"If, from the more wretched parts of the old world, we look at those which are in an advanced stage of improvement, we still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised, to furnish new pretenses for revenues and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without tribute." --Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, 1791

farmfriend  posted on  2009-10-09   23:00:50 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#195. To: wudidiz (#191)

Yes, but I didn't see the picture.

I caught on slowly, though...LOL


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-10-09   23:01:04 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#196. To: Rotara (#193)

I'm not a carpenter and you ain't no lady

In 2007, the FBI reported on concern about white supremacists recruiting soldiers, saying "hundreds" of neo-Nazis were in the active military. But in April, a Department of Homeland Security report on extremism that reiterated much the same point was widely criticized by veterans groups and some conservative politicians as being unpatriotic, leading the Justice Department to retract the DHS report.

Critics acknowledge that extremism in the Army is a touchy political subject.

Dakmar  posted on  2009-10-09   23:01:35 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#197. To: corn flaker, ferret mike, miKe mKKarthy, WEASEL MIKE (#192)

Well, I guess since you are fucked up in a totally soup sandwich sort of way, you are just the boy to explain that to me then; aren't you? Rody, the buttercup of 4UM, explains it all. Story at 666.

I'm good.

you're fucked


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-10-09   23:01:55 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#198. To: Rotara (#189)

Can't answer or won't answer ??

That you are a closet case? Of course you are a closet case. You are a wanker.

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2009-10-09   23:02:00 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#199. To: farmfriend (#194)

My point is that you don't put your compatriots down because they choose to fight in a different way.

You waste your time how you wish.

I'm about results.

you run for office and do your best to get the message out.

I'm locked, loaded and have 11,573 targets in my responsibility.


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-10-09   23:03:18 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#200. To: Rotara (#193)

I'm not running for office, Mag.

Dear God another bureaucrat is about to be hatched! We are saved!

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2009-10-09   23:03:31 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#201. To: buckeroo (#198)

filer


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-10-09   23:03:42 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#202. To: Rotara (#193)

I'm not running for office, Mag.

I'm preparing for the final battle of this war.

And I bless you for it.

Do you UNDERSTAND where we are ?

Yes, I do. I have known since Klamath. I didn't man the head gates as many did but I was not put down for spending time organizing and lobbying congress even though it was futile.


"If, from the more wretched parts of the old world, we look at those which are in an advanced stage of improvement, we still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised, to furnish new pretenses for revenues and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without tribute." --Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, 1791

farmfriend  posted on  2009-10-09   23:04:13 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#203. To: Rotara (#193)

"Do you UNDERSTAND where we are ?"

Somewhere like here?


Ferret Mike  posted on  2009-10-09   23:04:13 ET  (1 image) [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#204. To: buckeroo (#200)

You can't even save yourself you ludicrous SOB...


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-10-09   23:04:26 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#205. To: Dakmar, FormerLurker, Rotara (#190)

I'll go with 'B'.

I would like to add a third option...

C.


"The trouble with people is not that they don't know but that they know so much that ain't so." ~ Josh Billings

wudidiz  posted on  2009-10-09   23:04:46 ET  (1 image) [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#206. To: buckeroo (#200)

Dear God another bureaucrat is about to be hatched! We are saved!

I am not a bureaucrat.


"If, from the more wretched parts of the old world, we look at those which are in an advanced stage of improvement, we still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised, to furnish new pretenses for revenues and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without tribute." --Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, 1791

farmfriend  posted on  2009-10-09   23:05:10 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#207. To: corn flaker, girl, ferret mike, WEASEL MIKE (#203)

thank you, Traitor, for helping me ferret out who can and can't be trusted.

You dumb sorry sick son of a bitch.


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-10-09   23:06:19 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#208. To: Rotara (#199)

I'm locked, loaded and have 11,573 targets in my responsibility.

Will you send me an autographed self photo attesting to same if I supply a SASE with only a PO Box and two box-tops from some lucky charms?

In 2007, the FBI reported on concern about white supremacists recruiting soldiers, saying "hundreds" of neo-Nazis were in the active military. But in April, a Department of Homeland Security report on extremism that reiterated much the same point was widely criticized by veterans groups and some conservative politicians as being unpatriotic, leading the Justice Department to retract the DHS report.

Critics acknowledge that extremism in the Army is a touchy political subject.

Dakmar  posted on  2009-10-09   23:06:51 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#209. To: wudidiz (#205)

Drinking would help to go back asleep like most here that lie down for the slaughter.

You're way off amigo.


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-10-09   23:07:16 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#210. To: Dakmar (#208)

No, Hal...ehehe


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-10-09   23:07:53 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#211. To: Rotara (#197)

"you're fucked"

All talk, no brains, and a coward; that's you.


Ferret Mike  posted on  2009-10-09   23:08:10 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#212. To: Rotara (#204)

You can't even save yourself you ludicrous SOB...

Are you going to make me one more of your 11,573 targets?

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2009-10-09   23:08:29 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#213. To: WEASEL MIKE, ferret mike, EVERYONE THAT DEFENDS TREASONOUS PRICKS LIKE THIS ONE (#211)

You're time is on deck. No worries.


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-10-09   23:09:32 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#214. To: buckeroo (#212)

I hate to break this to you, but one of your clients is responsible for your sorry ass...


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-10-09   23:10:13 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#215. To: farmfriend (#206)

I am not a bureaucrat.

I hold you in total esteem. That comment was directed at Mr Rotara (rotara spelled backwards is = to Arator)

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2009-10-09   23:11:39 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#216. To: Rotara (#207)

"thank you, Traitor, for helping me ferret out who can and can't be trusted."

Custer does logic the old Rotara way.


Ferret Mike  posted on  2009-10-09   23:12:26 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#217. To: Rotara (#214)

Are you saying I am not going to make your list? Well gosh darn it, dang nab it and golly.

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2009-10-09   23:13:30 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#218. To: WEASEL MIKE, Traitor, New Communist World Order Tool, miKe mKKarthy, ferret mike (#216)

Custer lost.

We won't.

Fuck you to hell you Traitor.


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-10-09   23:15:38 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#219. To: buckeroo (#217)

Yeah, you're REALLY not worth shit.

even mKKarthy rates higher than you.

hey, I know it sucks being you but...


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-10-09   23:16:30 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#220. To: Rotara (#219)

Yeah, you're REALLY not worth shit.

Do you think I care about your ratings? I laff at you. I think the whole forum does.

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2009-10-09   23:18:09 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#221. To: buckeroo (#215)

Mr Rotara (rotara spelled backwards is = to Arator)

Again, you score.


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-10-09   23:18:52 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#222. To: buckeroo (#217)

--

Arator made backward philosophy of war in practice at the Greasy Grass/Little Big Horn.


Ferret Mike  posted on  2009-10-09   23:19:19 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#223. To: buckeroo (#220)

I'd rather be laughed at and be on target than be you, you drunken sod and degenerate filing feral reserve butt plug.


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-10-09   23:20:01 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#224. To: buckeroo (#215)

(rotara spelled backwards is = to Arator)

Interesting. I remember the handle but didn't have much interaction with people on that forum.


"If, from the more wretched parts of the old world, we look at those which are in an advanced stage of improvement, we still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised, to furnish new pretenses for revenues and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without tribute." --Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, 1791

farmfriend  posted on  2009-10-09   23:21:24 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#225. To: WEASEL MIKE, ferret mike, miKe mKKarthy, Traitor, arator (#222)

LOL

I would wager you and Arator swap semen, knowing what I know...


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-10-09   23:21:27 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#226. To: Rotara (#221)

You are a class clown. You remind of a little kid that thought his friends patted him on the back as being "nice". And then to find a sign saying, "kick me."

You are too much, you think because you have a keyboard that you are worthy somehow.... 11K targets ...... ROTFL

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2009-10-09   23:24:13 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#227. To: Rotara (#225)

"I would wager you and Arator swap semen, knowing what I know... "

Well, one thing for sure I do know; I hear more about penis related things listening to you in forum then any place else I've been I can remember. But I would say that just makes you homo-erotic somewhere in your subconscious mind.

You are too sociopathic to do the meat market thing.


Ferret Mike  posted on  2009-10-09   23:29:49 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#228. To: Ferret Mike (#227)

Mike - the guy gave up. It looks like you won another round discussing your perspective with reason and civil acumen. Congratulations.

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2009-10-09   23:33:42 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#229. To: buckeroo (#228)

You're such a faggot, rooster...


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-10-09   23:37:37 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#230. To: buckeroo (#228)

Thanks buckeroo, I appreciate that, just as much as I am happy to see your sharp wit and common sense posted once more in this 4UM.


Ferret Mike  posted on  2009-10-09   23:38:11 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#231. To: WEASEL MIKE, miKe mKKarthy, ferret mike, corn flaking ferret (#230)

`

You obviously know what a corn holer you are...or not.


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-10-09   23:39:32 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#232. To: Rotara (#229)

You lost. You are a loser. And the only reason why you lost is because you can't focus. You can't substantiate any of your viewpoints whether good, bad or ugly.

You are akin to a skid-row bum talking trash because you are trash.

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2009-10-09   23:39:39 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#233. To: buckeroo (#232)

Loser ?

Eheheeeee

I can't wait be-otch...


"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2009-10-09   23:40:24 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#234. To: buckeroo, Ferret Mike (#232)

You are akin to a skid-row bum talking trash because you are trash.

Hey bucky, that's hitting below the belt.

Fred Mertz  posted on  2009-10-09   23:41:26 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#235. To: Rotara (#229)

"You're such a faggot, rooster..."

Heh, don't worry, I get it, your mind is never far from channeling your penis. But enough of small topics.


Ferret Mike  posted on  2009-10-09   23:42:20 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#236. To: Rotara (#233)

Got those 11K targets, I see.... ROTFL.

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2009-10-09   23:46:35 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#237. To: Fred Mertz (#234)

I don't think I have had this much fun for years. I feel rejuvenated. I thought all the lamers were over at Sally's or Jim's playhouse ... but we "rotarA" here!!

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2009-10-09   23:49:04 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#238. To: Rotara (#231)

"You obviously know what a corn holer you are...or not."-

Tori Amos "Cornflake Girl" (1994)

Oh, now I get it. The Corn Flake/Raisin girl metaphor in that song by Tori Amos reminds you of anal intercourse.

I should of guessed this.

Actually, buttercup, In the song based on real experiences, Tori - a raisin girl - has bad things happen when a 'corn flake girl (conservative socially and politically, unlike Tori) invades her circle creating chaos.

I chose her moniker at LP because I would love to be a raisin nibbled by that sweet little piano player/singer/songwriter.

Sorry to get your hopes up, but really you must face things: This all is your delusion and subconscious mind playing tricks on you. You should really keep your anus to yourself.


Ferret Mike  posted on  2009-10-09   23:55:38 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#239. To: Ferret Mike (#238)

Too much! As always, reason and wit (irrespective of your perspective) wins the day. I was wondering how you latched that nickname, cornflake girl; Mike, you are way too cool.

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2009-10-10   0:01:31 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#240. To: buckeroo, Rotara, Ferret Mike (#239)

what began as a good thread and discussion has degenerated into an unseemly spectacle. i'm locking this thread.

"This Act (the Federal Reserve Act, Dec. 23rd 1913) establishes the most gigantic trust on earth. When the President (Woodrow Wilson) signs the Bill, the invisible government of the Monetary Power will be legalised... The worst legislative crime of the ages is perpetrated by this banking and currency Bill."--Charles Lindbergh, Sr.

christine  posted on  2009-10-10   0:31:18 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


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