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National News
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Title: Skiing While the Earth Burns
Source: The New American
URL Source: http://www.thenewamerican.com/index ... 0-skiing-while-the-earth-burns
Published: Oct 10, 2009
Author: Joe Wolverton, II
Post Date: 2009-10-10 16:32:34 by farmfriend
Ping List: *Agriculture-Environment*     Subscribe to *Agriculture-Environment*
Keywords: None
Views: 1176
Comments: 155

Skiing While the Earth Burns

Written by Joe Wolverton, II
Wednesday, 07 October 2009 19:29

In a sure sign that the Earth is, as predicted, warming to the point of human extinction, snowfall in the West has come sooner and heavier than in recorded history.

Many school districts have already been forced to close by unseasonable accumulations of snow. "We got dumped on last night, you can see that by looking around here. We weren't quite ready for it. It did cause us some issues in the school district," said Lonnie Barber, the superintendent of schools for Blaine County Idaho.

Idaho isn't alone in its reluctance to march into a fiery, iceless demise; in Colorado as well, the snow is falling fast and piling up quickly, to the delight of a state dependent for much of its income on the ski tourism trade. The ski resort at Loveland, Colorado, has opened already, the earliest start to a season in 40 years. It will be joined Friday by the resort at Arapahoe Basin. It seems the owners of ski resorts failed to recognize the climatological chaos that is causing the melting of snow and ice that is in turn setting off an avalanche of impending worldwide doom. Some people will do anything for a buck.

Vegas. Sin City. You would expect them to join the party and they have. You've heard the slogan: "What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas." Well, according to the local Fox News affiliate in Las Vegas, what's happening is snow and what's staying is hundreds of skiers getting a welcome early start on the season. The Las Vegas Ski and Snowboard Resort is open for business earlier than ever before and business is booming. Says the resort's Base Operations Manager Craig Baldwin, “There are many skiers and snowboarders who love to jib on our freestyle terrain features, and we expect many families to take advantage of this great opportunity to learn the sport and have fun so early in the season."Again, open rebellion against the stark realities of the inconvenient truth of global warming. Must we brook such insolence and brazen defiance of those Chicken Littles who are doing their best to warn us all of the toasty fate waiting for us just around the corner.

While we wait for the alarming rise in global temperatures to melt the ice caps and swell the levels of the oceans, we might as well head out West and ski. Subscribe to *Agriculture-Environment*

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the main fact is, we're using the oil up faster than we're finding it, and it makes no difference how the oil was formed.

sorry, but i'm gonna have to go for beer if you expect me to continue this idiocy...

flickervertigo  posted on  2009-10-11   15:35:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Irrespective of how oil is formed .... are there methods to reduce human consumption?

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2009-10-11   15:40:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

are there methods to reduce human consumption?

sure there are...

for instance, you can start wars to kill off millions, maybe billions of people who are potential consumers, or you can start wars to deprive potential consumers of access.

or you could even try educating people about peak oil, maybe motivate them to cooperate in figuring out the most efficient use of the remaining oil.

that last approach, though, kinda goes against the grain of the ruling psychopaths' philosophy.

flickervertigo  posted on  2009-10-11   15:43:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

or you could even try educating people about peak oil, maybe motivate them to cooperate in figuring out the most effecient [sic] use of the remaining oil.

What is the probability of that outcome?

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2009-10-11   15:45:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

not so pretty good

flickervertigo  posted on  2009-10-11   15:46:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

So, you would place a "long" wager that there will be more wars, correct? Is that why you introduced Israel into the global warming issue?

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2009-10-11   15:51:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

there are factions of psychopaths...

that's what the cold civil war is about: one faction wants to preserve israel at any cost, to include sacrificing america if that's what it takes to preserve israel.

one faction wants to control the world by controlling energy.

another faction wants to educate america with the aim of making america face the realities of peak oil and global warming... an attempt to save america.

one faction thinks the whole of industrial civilization is doomed, and the only solution is to stack up enough cash to set themselves up to hide out until the dust settles.

if we've burned half the oil, and increased the co2 by 100 ppm, then if we burn the rest of the coal, gas and oil, we're looking at at least another 100 ppm of co2, in much less time than it took to do the first 100 ppm.

so....... given that the atmospheric lifetime of co2 is a couple hundred years, given the possibility that the methane might get loose, given the fact that radical zionist jews dont give a shit about anything but israel...

flickervertigo  posted on  2009-10-11   16:04:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

In a sense, I see you posting comments about a significant issue that I have tried to suggest in the past.

There is a shortage of energy based upon HUGE consumption rates, correct? Have you ever read Malthus?

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2009-10-11   16:09:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

yeah, malthus was right, but his timing was dismal.

malthus died just as the industrial revolution, fueled first by coal, was cranking up.

then came the green revolution, dependent on oil, which allowed the population to skyrocket... so here we are, with a reality that's simply too grim to face.

flickervertigo  posted on  2009-10-11   16:14:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

With ever-increasing, encroaching government upon our individual rights and liberties and freedoms to limit energy consumption, do you sense a way out of this mess without future wars and mayhem and civil unrest? I note: you already stated that education won't work.

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2009-10-11   16:19:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

the fact that education is a long shot does not remove our obligation to try to educate, especially when the alternatives are so bad.

flickervertigo  posted on  2009-10-11   16:21:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

The future wars are about energy, correct?

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2009-10-11   16:25:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

so long as israel has so much influence on american politics and media, the wars will have an israeli component.

the problem being: israel must be secured before its american protector disintegrates from oil shortages.

flickervertigo  posted on  2009-10-11   16:27:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

How?

His assumptions that AGW is real, unavoidable and that "big oil" is opposed to it.

farmfriend  posted on  2009-10-11   16:35:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

So how does Israel dominate the American perspective? I don't know one blind fool that suggests that Israel leads American politics. Yet, I know the money from the US federal government, to the tune of trillions of dollars towards Israel, is actually reciprocated here in the USA. It is akin to having inbred, stagnant methods of recycling a stinky machine.

Keep in mind, Israel is not just the only foreign relations problem we know about. The truth is, it is total international approach that Washington DC contains. Of course, this is a problem with concentrated political power in the hands of a few.

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2009-10-11   16:36:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

the main fact is, we're using the oil up faster than we're finding it, and it makes no difference how the oil was formed.

sorry, but i'm gonna have to go for beer if you expect me to continue this idiocy...

I doubt the beer is going to do anything for your comprehension ability.

If oil is abiotic, that means the earth is producing it and there's a relatively endless supply.

But hey, believe what you want.

wudidiz  posted on  2009-10-11   16:37:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Your premise that abiotic oil is scarce is likely false in my opinion.

People tend to equate scarcity with extraction difficulty. They are not the same things.

farmfriend  posted on  2009-10-11   16:38:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

why dont they drill in the suburbs of houston?

They do. They are drilling for gas there.

The reason that companies drill in 200 feet of water miles offshore is that there are hot resevoirs out there that they know how to get at with technology well developed for the purpose.

The deep drilling that the Russians do is a specialized technology that they are working on to reach areas way down in the lithosphere.

randge  posted on  2009-10-11   16:41:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

american media and politics is solidly zionist, apparently... unless jews are being set up as scapegoats for the impending catastrophe... it could be that zionists are being given enough rope to hang themselves...

it seems likely that zionists are gonna take it in the shorts no matter what, seeing as how the really big players seem to be preoccupied with looting, which is harmful to israel's protector... although it's hard to say how much of the loot finds its way to israel...

but those who are able are obliged to prey on those who are unable to prevent it.

those who choose to be neither prey nor predator are cast out.

flickervertigo  posted on  2009-10-11   16:42:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

The reason that companies drill in 200 feet of water miles offshore...

...is because the shareholders think it's a good idea to waste billions of dollars that could have been paid to them as dividends.

flickervertigo  posted on  2009-10-11   16:44:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

His assumptions that AGW is real, unavoidable

Why do you think flickervertigo has made assumptions? Can you counter his arguments, at all?

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2009-10-11   16:46:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

People tend to equate scarcity with extraction difficulty. They are not the same things.

Why? Are you saying there is a gold mine two miles below the Earth's surface and the cost of extraction is only $2K/ounce while on the open market we can only fetch $1K/ounce?

Are you a proponent of snake oil, too?

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2009-10-11   16:49:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Can you counter his arguments, at all?

Yes I can, I've done it many time, but I'm not going to. What would be the point? I have too much to do today and can't waist my time on someone who is that far behind in the argument.

farmfriend  posted on  2009-10-11   16:51:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Are you a proponent of snake oil, too?

Don't be insulting.

farmfriend  posted on  2009-10-11   16:52:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

It is your thread. I was just trying to be intimidating ... not insulting. Sorry you feel that way.

But, there are serious issues presented on your thread. I want to hear about them.

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2009-10-11   16:56:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

you cant dispute the fact that co2 and methane are greenhouse gases.

you cant dispute the fact that co2 levels are rising, and have risen by 100 ppm since we've been burning fossil fuels.

you cant dispute the fact that polar ice and glaciers are melting.

you cant dispute the fact that weather patterns are being disrupted.

you cant dispute the fact that the people with the most motive to deny global warming are the world's prime deniers of global warming.

you cant dispute the fact that israel must acquire high ground to escape sea level rise before its american protector expires from oil shortages.

you cant dispute the fact that PNAC said it needed a new pearl harbor to kick start the land and oil acquisition project.

flickervertigo  posted on  2009-10-11   16:58:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

buckeroo: Can you counter his [flickervertigo] arguments, at all?

farmfriend: Yes I can, I've done it many time, but I'm not going to.

It is YOUR thread. And you can't defend it? Are you throwing in the towel?

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2009-10-11   17:02:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

you cant dispute the fact that co2 levels are rising, and have risen by 100 ppm since we've been burning fossil fuels.

One should not commit the fallacy the that correlation equates to causation. One should also bear in mind that whatever cooling or warming that has been recorded in modern time bear little relationship with levels of CO2.

Let's also not forget that the most significant greenhouse gas of all, H2O, outweighs CO2 by several orders of magnitude.

randge  posted on  2009-10-11   17:08:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

if a gas is a greenhouse gas, and the level of that gas increases in the atmosphere, the atmosphere will get warmer.

that's physics.

flickervertigo  posted on  2009-10-11   17:10:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Let's also not forget that the most significant greenhouse gas of all, H2O

Set on the political stage is the following:

State leaders fail to reach water accord If there is no deal by Sunday, governor says, he will veto many of the 700 legislative bills awaiting his signature. By Michael Rothfeld and Bettina Boxall

October 9, 2009 | 9:49 p.m.

Reporting from Los Angeles and Sacramento - Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger and state legislative leaders broke off talks Friday evening without a deal on upgrading California's water supply and with a looming threat by the governor to veto many of the bills sitting on his desk if there is no agreement by Sunday.

Even as the leaders debated asking voters to approve billions of dollars in new debt to strengthen the state's water resources, a top finance official warned that government revenue is already $1 billion short of the amount needed to balance the budget that was passed in the face of a significant deficit less than three months ago.

Those complications arose as the governor maintained a threat to veto 700 bills that lawmakers approved near the end of the legislative session last month. Schwarzenegger and his aides made the threat in an attempt to use bills as leverage in the water talks.

The governor has until midnight Sunday to sign or veto the measures, or they automatically become law.

When negotiations broke up early Friday evening, Assembly GOP leader Sam Blakeslee of San Luis Obispo said that "a dozen or more major issues" were unresolved.

Senate leader Darrell Steinberg (D-Sacramento) said there had been progress, but he told reporters that disagreements persisted over how much would need to be borrowed to implement any water plan and about the makeup and funding of a council to address management of the Sacramento-San Joaquin Delta.

Schwarzenegger's spokesman, Aaron McLear, said that negotiations would continue this afternoon and that the governor would carry out his veto threat if meetings did not produce a deal or something close to one.

Schwarzenegger had continued to pressure the legislators Friday, appearing on the Capitol steps with the Latino Water Coalition, an advocacy group. The governor said he and the lawmakers were "on the verge of a historic breakthrough on water" but were not there yet.

"I thank that all of you are here today to give the legislators this extra little push that they need to get across the finish line," Schwarzenegger said. "And if they need a little bit more, then you are even ready to give them that hard shove to get across the finish line."

As the ralliers cheered, the governor yelled, "We are going to get it done today!"

Lawmakers taking part in the talks said there was consensus that the $12 billion in general obligation bonds proposed by Democratic leaders in September was too much to win the two-thirds approval needed in the Legislature.

But trimming the borrowing back to $8 billion, as some participants have suggested, for delta restoration and new water storage would cut funding for regional projects such as recycling and groundwater cleanup. That could whittle support for the measure.

Borrowing would also need approval from voters, who may be wary if state finances do not improve. Controller John Chiang reported Friday that income tax receipts have fallen 11% below what lawmakers and Schwarzenegger expected when they agreed to a patchwork budget plan during the summer. Sales and corporate taxes have also slid below expectations.

"The recession continues to drag state revenues down," Chiang said in a statement.

Policymakers were already bracing for a big budget deficit next year. The Department of Finance has projected a $7.4-billion deficit in 2010-11 -- a conservative estimate, as lawsuits have either tied up or reversed some planned budget cuts.

Finances are not the only sticking point in a water deal. Bay Area water agencies are seeking protections -- opposed by environmentalists -- against the loss of some of their delta supplies. Protecting the delta ecosystem could require keeping more water there.

And an agreement could help pave the way for a canal to divert water from the Sacramento River around the delta to pumps that would send it to San Joaquin Valley farms and Southern California cities.

"Northern California is going to be served as the turkey at the celebratory dinner" if the water legislation passes as written, complained Randy Kanouse of the East Bay Municipal Utility District.

Agricultural interests that pump groundwater don't like a proposed requirement for statewide monitoring of groundwater usage. And Central Valley lawmakers representing areas with some of the highest urban water use in California are trying to weaken a mandate to cut the state's per capita water use by 20%.

Environmentalists have warned that if those provisions are weakened too much, they will balk.

State lawmakers, meanwhile, anxiously awaited the fate of their legislation. Assembly Majority Leader Alberto Torrico (D-Newark) accused the governor on Thursday of "coming perilously close to extortion" and committing a crime by linking his review of pending bills to a water deal.

But on Friday, state Atty. Gen. Jerry Brown, also a Democrat, largely dismissed that claim in a letter to Torrico and state Sen. Jeff Denham (R-Atwater).

Brown, a former governor of California who is campaigning to get that job back, did not offer an official legal opinion. He suggested, however, that horse-trading is normal in the governing process and called the veto "a powerful weapon for shaping policy."

"Compromise in the rough-and-tumble legislative process," Brown said, "is not achieved by doilies and tea."

michael.rothfeld@latimes.com

bettina.boxall@latimes.com

Times staff writers Shane Goldmacher and Patrick McGreevy contributed to this report.

The once mighty Central Valley of California has no water, pal.

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2009-10-11   17:14:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

What's that got to do with the subject of this thread?

And who says I'm your pal??

randge  posted on  2009-10-11   17:19:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

H20 ... is about to go into government wars over private property rights, pal. It all about over consumption and ignorance of and about the environment around us. Natural resources are declining, pal.

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2009-10-11   17:24:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

LOL ok I'll take your items one at a time but I'm not in the mood to debate you at all.

you cant dispute the fact that co2 and methane are greenhouse gases.

Why would I want to?

you cant dispute the fact that co2 levels are rising, and have risen by 100 ppm since we've been burning fossil fuels.

That would be 100 ppmv. Correlation is not causation. Whether the increase is due to the use of fossil fuels is a point of contention. For instance, ocean outgassing is the prime source of CO2. Solar cycles 22 and 23 were the most active cycles in the last 1000 years. This in conjunction with a warming phase of the PDO and ENSO was likely the cause of the observed atmospheric warming. Assuming there has been warming and even that is in dispute, but I won't go into that.

The discussion about rising CO2 levels always seems to include the assumption that current levels or lower are normal and prime levels. This is untrue. Currently levels, even after the small increase, are at historic lows for the planet.

you cant dispute the fact that polar ice and glaciers are melting.

Well yeah I can dispute that as well. Glaciers have been in retreat since the end of the little ice age. The extreme arctic melt that happened in '07 was caused by wind not warming. The ice is recovering. There was also some faulty equipment that gave open water readings where there was actually ice.

Both Greenland ice and Antarctic ice are getting thicker. The only warming that was seen in Antarctica was on the western peninsula and this was probably due to the warming oceans around it. The glacier that recently shattered in that area sits in a horseshoe shaped bay. It can't calve the way glaciers do. The build up of pressure behind it caused it to shatter like glass relieving the pressure. No warming needed.

you cant dispute the fact that weather patterns are being disrupted.

Are they? What exactly is "normal" weather? You predispose a stability that has never existed.

you cant dispute the fact that the people with the most motive to deny global warming are the world's prime deniers of global warming.

I dispute your assumption as to who "those people" are. Besides, no one "denies" global warming, only the extent, the cause and the duration.

you cant dispute the fact that israel must acquire high ground to escape sea level rise before its american protector expires from oil shortages.

With solar cycle 24 falling below even the Dalton minimum levels and both the PDO and ENSO now in cooling phases it is unlikely that oceans will see an extreme rise.

farmfriend  posted on  2009-10-11   17:25:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

no one "denies" global warming

good enough.

you must be "no one".

flickervertigo  posted on  2009-10-11   17:31:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Both Greenland ice and Antarctic ice are getting thicker.

Oh c'mon now .... you meant to say the land mass supporting olde ice flows is becoming apparent while the oceans are rising. Those areas have "thicker" land masses for sure now that the ice flows are melting.

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2009-10-11   17:34:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

if a gas is a greenhouse gas, and the level of that gas increases in the atmosphere, the atmosphere will get warmer.

that's physics.

LOL no it isn't. There is a limit. IR absorption is the main factor. Photons etc. I can't explain it because I glass over when my scientist friends start throwing formulas around. The bottom line is that CO2 can only influence warming to a certain extent and no more. Increasing atmospheric levels of CO2 have no effect beyond that point. Something about the atmosphere reaching saturation levels.

farmfriend  posted on  2009-10-11   17:36:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

you must be "no one".

Weak. Global warming has to be global and there was never any warming in the southern hemisphere and only a small rise in the northern hemisphere that didn't even reach the levels of the medieval warm period also known as climate optimum.

See Buck, this is why I won't debate people like this.

farmfriend  posted on  2009-10-11   17:37:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

maybe there's something working here that no one understands yet.

that's possible.

but until there's some evidence of cooling that cant be explained, we have to go with the physical processes that are understood, and one of those processes is the role of greenhouses gases in atmospheres.

co2 is a greenhouse gas, the concentration has increased from 280 ppm to over 380 ppm... and so we have to assume that co2 is causing some of the observed warming.

otherwise, we have to assume that a law of physics has been repealed.

that's just how it is.

as far as the thickness of ice in greenland and anarctica, it's a fact that warmer air can hold more moisture, which would lead to more snowfall as the warmer air masses cool over the ice fields.

and that, too, is just how it is...

flickervertigo  posted on  2009-10-11   17:39:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

You can dispel all his grammatical errors all you want. After-all we not performing a doctoral thesis on a chit-chat channel are we? I thought we were examining ideas and concepts that might lead to new and invigorated ideas about the world around us.

“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”

buckeroo  posted on  2009-10-11   17:41:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

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