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Pious Perverts
See other Pious Perverts Articles

Title: Sunstein urges: Abolish marriage
Source: WorldNetDaily
URL Source: http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=113802
Published: Oct 23, 2009
Author: Aaron Klein
Post Date: 2009-10-23 10:12:18 by noone222
Keywords: None
Views: 256
Comments: 14

The U.S. government should abolish its sanctioning of marriage, argued Cass Sunstein, President Obama's regulatory czar.

Sunstein proposed that the concept of marriage should become privatized, with the state only granting civil union contracts to couples wishing to enter into an agreement.

Sunstein explained marriage licensing is unnecessary, pointing out people stay committed to organizations like country clubs and homeowner associations without any government interference.

"Under our proposal, the word marriage would no longer appear in any laws, and marriage licenses would no longer be offered or recognized by any level of government," wrote Sunstein and co-author Richard Thaler in their 2008 book, "Nudge: Improving decisions about health, wealth and happiness."

In the book – obtained and reviewed by WND – Sunstein explains his approach would ensure that "the only legal status states would confer on couples would be a civil union, which would be a domestic partnership agreement between any two people."

(Story continues below)

He proposed marriage not be recognized by the government. Marriages would instead be "strictly private matters, performed by religious and other private organizations," he wrote.

"Governments would not be asked to endorse any particular relationships by conferring on them the term marriage," added Sunstein.

Sunstein slammed current government recognition of marriage as "an official license scheme."

"When the state grants marriage it gives both maternal and symbolic benefits to the couples it recognizes. But why combine the two functions? And what is added by the term marriage?" he asked.

Sunstein explained terminating the issuance of state marriage contracts would not affect the commitments of those in the "partnership."

"People take their private commitments serious," Sunstein wrote. "Members of religious organizations, homeowners' associations, and country clubs all feel bound, sometimes quite strongly, by the structures and rules of such organizations."

Take organs from 'helpless patients'

Sunstein's proposal regarding marriage is hardly the only controversial section of his book. WND reported last week that in the same book, Sunstein defended the possibility of removing organs from terminally ill patients without their permission.

He also strongly pushed for the removal of organs from deceased individuals who did not explicitly consent to becoming organ donors.

Sunstein and Thaler discussed multiple legal scenarios regarding organ donation. One possibility presented in the book, termed by Sunstein as "routine removal," posits that "the state owns the rights to body parts of people who are dead or in certain hopeless conditions, and it can remove their organs without asking anyone's permission."

"Though it may sound grotesque, routine removal is not impossible to defend," wrote Sunstein. "In theory, it would save lives, and it would do so without intruding on anyone who has any prospect for life."

Sunstein continued: "Although this approach is not used comprehensively by any state, many states do use the rule for corneas (which can be transplanted to give some blind patients sight). In some states, medical examiners performing autopsies are permitted to remove corneas without asking anyone's permission."

Sunstein's example of medical examiners removing corneas, however, applies only to patients who are already declared deceased.

After defending the position, Sunstein conceded the "routine removal" approach "violates a generally accepted principle, which is that within broad limits, individuals should be able to decide what is to be done with and to their bodies."

Still, Sunstein did not add that the removal of organs from a living individual should be banned.

Also in the same book, http://CNSNews.com previously noted Sunstein argued for removing organs from deceased patients who are not registered as organ donors, a policy not without precedent. Spain and some European Union countries have been debating accepting a law of implied consent.

Writes Sunstein: "A policy that can pass libertarian muster by our standards is called presumed consent."

"Presumed consent preserves freedom of choice, but it is different from explicit consent because it shifts the default rule," he writes. "Under this policy, all citizens would be presumed to be consenting donors, but they would have the opportunity to register their unwillingness to donate, and they could do so easily. We want to underline the word easily, because the harder it is to register your unwillingness to participate, the less libertarian the policy becomes."

Sunstein continues: "Although presumed consent is an extremely effective way to increase the supply of organs available for transplant, it may not be an easy sell politically. Some will object to the idea of 'presuming' anything when it comes to such a sensitive matter. We are not sure that these objections are convincing, but this is surely a domain in which forced choosing, or what is referred to in this domain as mandated choice, has considerable appeal."

Sunstein advocates making it mandatory for all citizens to register either as an organ donor or as unwilling to donate their organs.

"Mandated choice could be implemented through a simple addition to the driver's license registration scheme used in many states. With mandated choice, renewal of your driver's license would be accompanied by a requirement that you check a box stating your organ donation preferences. Your application would not be accepted unless you had checked one of the boxes. The options might include 'yes, willing to donate' and 'no, unwilling to donate.'"

Government must fund abortion

Sunstein is not shy about his view concerning rights to life or abortion.

WND reported that in his 1993 book "The Partial Constitution" Sunstein argued the government should be required to fund abortion in cases such as rape or incest.

"I have argued that the Constitution ... forbids government from refusing to pay the expenses of abortion in cases of rape or incest, at least if government pays for childbirth in such cases," Sunstein wrote.

The Obama czar asserts that funding only childbirth but not abortion "has the precise consequence of turning women into involuntary incubators."

Sunstein argues that refusing to fund abortion "would require poor women to be breeders," while co-opting women's bodies "in the service of third parties" – referring to fetuses.

Sunstein wrote he has no problem with forcing taxpayers to fund abortions even if they morally object to their money being used for such a purpose.

He wrote: "There would be no tension with the establishment clause if people with religious or other objections were forced to pay for that procedure (abortion). Indeed, taxpayers are often forced to pay for things – national defense, welfare, certain forms of art, and others – to which they have powerful moral and even religious objections."


Poster Comment:

Take organs from 'helpless patients'

Sunstein's proposal regarding marriage is hardly the only controversial section of his book. WND reported last week that in the same book, Sunstein defended the possibility of removing organs from terminally ill patients without their permission.

I guess we should remove his tongue, since it's obvious his brain has already been removed.

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#1. To: noone222 (#0)

I agree that government should get out of the marriage business. All it does is allow the two-party fraud to use the information to manipulate taxes, pit groups of people against each other, and perform social engineering which they have no business performing.

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976

The purpose of the legal system is to protect the elites from the wrath of those they plunder.- Elliott Jackalope

"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat

F.A. Hayek Fan  posted on  2009-10-23   10:30:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Hayek Fan (#1) (Edited)

I agree that government should get out of the marriage business.

Me too !

EDIT: I agree that government should get out.

The U.S. Govt has become a tyrannical butcher; U.S. taxpayers are accomplices to international murder and mayhem. If you satisfy your fears by bowing to this butcher, you forfeit your humanity and possibly your soul.

noone222  posted on  2009-10-23   10:31:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Hayek Fan (#1) (Edited)

No doubt. However, I doubt Sunstein has the same kind of premise about it that we do. These folks are never about lessening government in our lives. Guaranteed that were this sniveling worm to get his way, that there would be brigades of lawyers behind him urging him on to create a bajillion new laws to deal with a "marriageless society", and we'd be in a net loss situation.

MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.

SonOfLiberty  posted on  2009-10-23   10:50:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: SonOfLiberty (#3)

No doubt. However, I doubt Sunstein has the same kind of premise about it that we do. These folks are never about lessening government in our lives. Guaranteed that were this sniveling worm to get his way, that there would be brigades of lawyers behind him urging him on to create a bajillion new laws to deal with a "marriageless society", and we'd be in a net loss situation.

You are probably correct. I could see that happening. For instance, now that Bush has pretty much addicted church-run charities to the government tit via the "faith-based" initiative, I could see the Obama administration abolishing the laws that governments use to sanction marriage one one hand while at the same time passing laws that require churches to marry homosexuals if they receive government funds.

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976

The purpose of the legal system is to protect the elites from the wrath of those they plunder.- Elliott Jackalope

"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat

F.A. Hayek Fan  posted on  2009-10-23   11:03:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: noone222 (#0)

"People take their private commitments serious," Sunstein wrote. "Members of religious organizations, homeowners' associations, and country clubs all feel bound, sometimes quite strongly, by the structures and rules of such organizations."

Sunstein is discounting transaction costs that the state imposes. But in principle I agree.

It'll NEVER fly though. The problem is not that the state recognizes people's marriages but that it forces others to recognize it. Diversitoids will NOT allow citizens to ignore a fag couple's claim to be married.

If blacks, Hispanics, and immigrants are excluded from the American results, our student performance rises from 12th, to 2nd in reading and 5th in math.

Prefrontal Vortex  posted on  2009-10-23   11:50:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: noone222 (#0)

Abolish marriage

Hahahaha, no need, it has already been done.

My answer to those who are getting married is; "You think you are".

Marriage is essentially legally dead, now if you want to sign a contract with the State legislature to divide up your property and take your children, go right ahead, but it certainly is not marriage.

Lysander_Spooner  posted on  2009-10-23   13:07:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Lysander_Spooner (#6)

now if you want to sign a contract with the State legislature to divide up your property and take your children, go right ahead

Geez, you're no fun Lysander

The U.S. Govt has become a tyrannical butcher; U.S. taxpayers are accomplices to international murder and mayhem. If you satisfy your fears by bowing to this butcher, you forfeit your humanity and possibly your soul.

noone222  posted on  2009-10-23   13:10:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Prefrontal Vortex (#5)

Diversitoids will NOT allow citizens to ignore a fag couple's claim to be married.

All law these days is "contract" law.

The U.S. Govt has become a tyrannical butcher; U.S. taxpayers are accomplices to international murder and mayhem. If you satisfy your fears by bowing to this butcher, you forfeit your humanity and possibly your soul.

noone222  posted on  2009-10-23   13:12:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: noone222 (#7)

Geez, you're no fun Lysander

I know how offensive stating the obvious can be, but I can change.

I think I can, I think I can.........

Lysander_Spooner  posted on  2009-10-23   13:28:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: noone222 (#8)

I'm ignorant about your point. Please 'splain.

If blacks, Hispanics, and immigrants are excluded from the American results, our student performance rises from 12th, to 2nd in reading and 5th in math.

Prefrontal Vortex  posted on  2009-10-23   13:43:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Hayek Fan, noone222 (#1)

I agree that government should get out of the marriage business. All it does is allow the two-party fraud to use the information to manipulate taxes, pit groups of people against each other, and perform social engineering which they have no business performing.

While it isn't going to happenn, they no longer need it as a source of data as we are tracked "seven ways from Sunday" by a multiplicity of government bureaucracies. Got your "Fishing License", Driver's Licenense, Property Tax, Social (in)Security, birth and death records, etc, ...?

However, in terms of social organization and obligation formal Marriage has lent stability to the culture. It is in its basis a contract between a man and woman that establishes certain minimal mutual obligations - which are freely entered into. What after all is the purpose of Marriage? Preserve capital, and allow for its increase, and to provide for upbringing of young. It also provides a stable transmission line for cultural norms and behavior. If you were trying to disestablish the culture doing away with marriage would be one thing you would want to do. That also explains why the elites are pushing Queer Marriage as an indirect attack against normal marriage.

While government isn't required to propagate marriage, and marriage licenses are actually a public health measure, the formal contract aspect needs to be retained, along with its recognition by the state, for it to be of survival value to the species.

"An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you know and what you don't. ~ Anatole France

Original_Intent  posted on  2009-10-23   13:55:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: All (#8)

Diversitoids will NOT allow citizens to ignore a fag couple's claim to be married.

All law these days is "contract" law.

The fictional entity called the Federal (reserve bank) Government takes taxes from the fictional taxpayer (MR. or MS. STRAW PERSON).

Gender makes no difference in the fictional world so MR. STRAW PERSON marrying MR. STRAW PERSON or MS. STRAW PERSON marrying MS. STRAW PERSON is exactly the same as MR. STRAW MAN marrying MS. STRAW WOMAN ... they are all TAXPAYING STRAW PERSONS by contractual arrangement of some sort or another and deserve to be treated as such.

The U.S. Govt has become a tyrannical butcher; U.S. taxpayers are accomplices to international murder and mayhem. If you satisfy your fears by bowing to this butcher, you forfeit your humanity and possibly your soul.

noone222  posted on  2009-10-23   14:24:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Prefrontal Vortex, all (#10)

In effect, in Roman legal tradition, PERSONS are

creations, artifacts, of the law itself, i.e., of the

legislature that enacts the law, and are not considered to

have, or only have incidentally, existence of any kind outside

of the legal sphere. The law, on the Roman interpretation, is

systematically ignorant of the biological status of its

subjects." State licensed marriage will have to accept ALLLLL PERSONS EQUALLY ... wanna bet ?

The U.S. Govt has become a tyrannical butcher; U.S. taxpayers are accomplices to international murder and mayhem. If you satisfy your fears by bowing to this butcher, you forfeit your humanity and possibly your soul.

noone222  posted on  2009-10-24   6:46:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Original_Intent (#11)

"the formal contract aspect needs to be retained, along with its recognition by the state, for it to be of survival value to the species."

A contract can be either written or verbal, there is no need for recognition by the State, and it's recognition by the State is hardly necessary for the survival of Homo Sapien. Frankly, the State, historically has been hostile toward and aggressive in the pursuit of the destruction of the human family, which is necessary for the survival of Homo Sapien. The "Law" of the State, in regards to marriage, has been nothing short of a disaster. Arguably, Homo Sapein has been around for 40-50 thousand years, marriage licence application records from government authorities are widely available starting from the mid- 1800s, ergo state recognized marriage has been with us for 0.00325-0.0026 % of the time. During the States "glorious" intervention, the rate of marriage has dropped precipitously, divorce and illegitimacy have skyrocketed and all the ills pathologies of the broken family have risen dramatically. The State, born of violence and thievery, is an unnecessary institution, and it's dismantleing may very well determine the survival of Homo Sapien.

Lysander_Spooner  posted on  2009-10-26   11:44:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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