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Title: Hitchens: Christianity Is A Fraud If It’s Not Literally True
Source:
RAW STORY
URL Source: http://rawstory.com/2009/10/hitchens-christianity-fraud/
Published: Oct 26, 2009
Author: By David Edwards and Daniel Tencer
Post Date: 2009-10-26 11:32:20 by Brian S
Keywords: None
Views: 1549
Comments: 98
If the story of Jesus Christ isn't literally true, then Christianity is a fraud that promotes "a positively wicked doctrine," conservative writer Christopher Hitchens told Fox & Friends Monday morning. Hitchens, an avowed atheist whose 2007 book God is Not Great attempts to divorce conservatism from religious teachings, discussed the role of religion in American society in the wake of a recent study (PDF) that shows the number of Americans who claim no religious affiliation has roughly doubled in the past two decades, from 8.2 percent in 1990 to 15 percent in 2008. The study, conducted by Trinity College in Hartford, Connecticut, predicts that a full one-quarter of Americans will have no religious affiliation by 2028. The study notes that the number of non-believers among younger people is considerably higher than among older people, suggesting that the trend of Americans growing less religious will continue in coming years. Those people who claim no religious affiliation are "not all atheists by any means," Hitchens told host Gretchen Carlson. "They're just people who don't attend a church, don't have a faith. I think it's fair to call them agnostics. The number of people, like myself, who think religion is false, that it's a delusion and that it's bad for you, is still pretty small." Hitchens said Americans are increasingly turning against organized religion "because they want to push back against theocracy and the parties of God and the awful challenge they pose to us internationally." "By the way, your side seems to be winning in public schools, at least across America," Carlson told Hitchens. Hitchens appeared on Fox with pastor Douglas Wilson, who appeared along with Hitchens in the recent documentary Collision, which explores the battle of ideas between the religious and the non-religious. The two came to an unexpected agreement on one issue: They both attacked the notion, popular among some secular thinkers, that Christianity is a socially positive thing even if it's not true. "If Jesus didn't come back from the dead, then Christianity is appalling, it's an appalling fraud and delusion and every unbeliever should attack it," Wilson said. "Christianity is not good for the world because it makes people decent and sober and that sort of thing. At the end of the day, if it's not true, if it's not objectively true, then I don't have any more use for it than Christopher does." Hitchens echoed that idea, but made it clear he does actually consider Christianity a fraud. "They say, well the Bible story's not really true, they're morality tales. Don't listen to it, because if it's based on a fraud, if the virgin birth and the resurrection and the miracles did not occur, which they did not, then those teachings are immoral, they teach that sins can be forgiven by throwing them on to a scapegoat -- a positively wicked doctrine."
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#1. To: Brian S (#0)
I was raised a Catholic but have not gone to church regulary the last 2-3 years. All my local church does is ask for money and then they buy local comercial properties and rent them out. I still am trying to remain a Christian but sometimes it tough. I see so many so called Christians today on chat forums that for example make fun of black people(read LP) and I deal with many hard core so called "Christian" business owners who beat their chest over their strong faith in God and have a bible on their desk but are the most greediest, lying hypocrites you ever run across.
The owner of LP insults Christians, and after some self righteous puffery, some trot back to her like well trained puppies. It's a sorry sight.
Hitchens, the Southern Baptists and their ilk are ALL that's left of the "movement," basically. There is no way for so-called "conservatives" or "neos" such as yourself ever to win elections without them. After reading this, the "Christian" conservatives will tell you, most assuredly, to "go to Hell" or that you are sending yourself to Hell.
“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston
It must really hurt your ego, since you try so hard to present a welcome face to all who post here. LOLOLOLOL
That's his problem. "...as long as there..remain active enemies of the Christian church, we may hope to become Master of the World...the future Jewish King will never reign in the world before Christianity is overthrown - B'nai B'rith speech http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/luther.htm / http://bible.cc/psalms/83-4.htm
I had a patient who was literally brought back from the dead. He said he met Jesus Christ while dead and had a religious conversion from his previous atheist leanings. He also said JC had brown eyes and brown hair and looked quite different from most of his pictorial portrayals. I believe he believed what he saw. I know what you mean about "Christians" on the internet as some have evidently not acheived the stage where they have incorporated the values into their own lives. Yet they feel free to preach and Bible quote. I think of it as just another internet chat technique to win at all costs.
Please don't confuse hypocrites and assorted other pretenders with the scriptures. I do completely understand your sentiments, I share them.
The U.S. Govt has become a tyrannical butcher; U.S. taxpayers are accomplices to international murder and mayhem. If you satisfy your fears by bowing to this butcher, you forfeit your humanity and possibly your soul.
That's his problem. God would NOT be laughing over Hitchens like that..more like sadness. I would not want to pay homage to a god that laughs like that over "lost sheep"
This statement on its face supports the notion that "IT TAKES ONE TO KNOW ONE" ! Hitchens has a right to consider Christianity a fraud ... lots of people do.
The U.S. Govt has become a tyrannical butcher; U.S. taxpayers are accomplices to international murder and mayhem. If you satisfy your fears by bowing to this butcher, you forfeit your humanity and possibly your soul.
Are you talking about "Christianity" as organized religion? Or "Christianity" as a belief in the teachings of Jesus, excluding the teachings of the apostles?
If he were truly "Lost", yes, God would be sad, but IMO, Hitchens is not "Lost". It's not like he has never had the opportunity to hear of Him here in America. He has REJECTED Christ, and joined the forces of ANTI-Christ [FOX et al] : Murdoch & Parents are Knights; Fox is Brit PR Branch! memes.org/pakistan-britis...rents-fox-new-just-pr-fox ....and THE US IS STILL A BRITISH COLONY/CORPORATION.... .... and Britain is owned by the Vatican (at 8:21)....you'll see the Union Jack superimposed on the Vatican phallus symbol at 8:24....this needs to be updated because the Banksters of the City of London took over the Vatican in 1823....Therefore, Hitchens is one of the heathens/nations/kings/rulers/judges that rage [conspire, plot] against Christ, Christians, and His holy Mount Zion (Which is not in Palestine). KJV He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the LORD shall have them in derision. His words, not mine, but I appreciate what you are saying.
"...as long as there..remain active enemies of the Christian church, we may hope to become Master of the World...the future Jewish King will never reign in the world before Christianity is overthrown - B'nai B'rith speech http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/luther.htm / http://bible.cc/psalms/83-4.htm
I have a question. How does importing tens of millions of muslims into Europe benefit the Vatican?
conservative writer Christopher Hitchens Correction: He is Jewish and a liberal. He is seen as conservative falsely because he is a Zionist warmonger who supported Bush's war crimes.
The Truth of 911 Shall Set You Free From The Lie
The same reason we import Hmong, Filipinos, Iraqis, Afghans etc. What is the common denominator?
Sounds like he's trying to paraphrase Paul. LOL! What I find funny is how a confessed liberal is admired by conservatives today all because he is pro-war. Forget the fact that prior to baby Bush he was considered an enemy because of his big government beliefs. I never would have thought I'd see the day when a life long liberal would be able to use his popularity among the supposed conservative movement to "attempt to divorce conservatism from religious teachings." If he had tried this 20 years ago, he would be pissing in the wind and no one would read his book or give him any publicity, yet now he's on Fox. LOL! We are living in Bizarro world. Where the fuck is Superman to take us back? It is no wonder people turn their backs on this sham called Christianity. Look at those who claim to be Christians today. The majority are blood dancing sociopaths filled with hate and loathing for their fellow man. Just read the comments of the proclaimed Christians on TOS2. Sweetjustice, Bob Celeste, David Ben Ariel, JoeSnuffy, rifle22. These people can't get enough of other people's blood. They want to kill, kill, kill everyone and everything. Nuke the whole fucking world. Of course, being cowards, they leave the killing to others. Never would they ever do it themselves, so their blood lust will never be satisfied. As someone who lives in the Southern Baptist Bible belt as well as an Assembly of God and evangelical stronghold, I can tell you from first hand experience that those before mentioned people are not uncommon within the Christian ranks. On the contrary, they are the rule, not the exception. Those so-called Christian denominations are FILLED with blood dancers. Then you have those who try to use the Bible to justify forced income redistribution upon us all. People like Destro, or Vicomte13. They somehow forget, or refuse to admit, that the very same Bible says that any giving should be voluntary and completely up to those doing the giving. Never does their God tell the Apostles to use the force of government to steal from one group in order to give to another, whether that other be the poor (who receive very little or the largess) or the government bureaucrats (who receive the majority of the ill-gotten booty). Oh, and if you disagree, then you are a "bad Christian." More and more people are waking up to this fraud. Unfortunately, at least for those of us that cherish the freedom and liberty envisioned by out founding fathers, people appear to be replacing the worship of the Christian God with the worship of government. There appears to be no answer. IMHO, the "great experiment" has failed. There is a reason that the majority of humanity was subjugated to serf status throughout history. Man is not able to live in freedom and liberty. Not because he cannot, but because he refuses to. It's too much responsibility for most and because they cannot handle the responsibility, they do not want those who CAN handle it to have it.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976 The purpose of the legal system is to protect the elites from the wrath of those they plunder.- Elliott Jackalope "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat
Islam is a tool of the Vatican. Search [or see below]: The Vatican created Islam. [Warning: The David Icke article shut down my computer]. The purpose is to destroy the true church. Druid, Freemason, and Zionist Prince Charles [and closet Papist like cousin George Washington? http://watch.pair.com/pilgrim.html ] is supposed to be the Defender of the [true] Christian faith. Now he is the "Defender of the FaithS", including Islam. [search]. I just remembered this: "Neo-British Empire of the Crown -- 500 Year Chronology ....B. Allied International Organisms: Islam and Judaism. At the height of its power in the 14th Century, the "Old Order" of Christendom succeeded in expelling the Islamic Moors from Spain and subjecting the previously elite Jews of Spain to the Inquisition. The expelled Jews and Moors formed widely dispersed "Cabalistic" and "Sufi" commercial/intellectual networks that could be "organized" (literally!) and utilized by the NBE in subduing and replacing the "old order" of Christendom with a paradoxical "modern" mystical/scientific world order. International Islam and Judaism, in spite of the antagonism to each other, are, through financial and secret society penetration, allied to the "Crown" against Christendom. =================================================================== Editor's Note: Lloyd Miller asked me to note here that it is now clear that the Vatican has had considerable success in cozying-up to Islam based on a shared antipathy to secularism, modernism, birth control, etc. Revision needed! ----James Daugherty =================================================================== Needless to say, the "Crown" cannot always count on voluntary alliance and must resort to balance of power tactics to keep these organisms vulnerable and, thus, subject to use. ....." http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/update03.htm The "NWO" may hope to join the world into One under the Pope: "....THE POPE AND ONE WORLD RELIGION / GOVERNMENT ECUMENICALISM BETWEEN CATHOLICS AND PROTESTANTS....." http://www.hebroots.org/babylon/babylon.html [probably a crypto-Jewish site] The Pope also supports the antiChrist/antiChristian "Noahide Laws" [call for the beheading of Christians. See www.realjewnews.com/?p=193 .... should be a wake-up call to all Catholics: ISLAM, JUDAISM, AND ROMAN CATHOLICISM CALL FOR BEHEADING CHRISTIANS. What's wrong with this picture?] I have heard the NWO plot has the Pope playing the role of "the Antichrist": THE POPE IS DECLARED TO BE A "PROPER RECEPTOR TO THE NEW AGE ... Subtitle: The Director of the House of Theosophy, Bill Lambert, declares that the Roman Catholic Pope is going to be a "proper receptor" to the Antichrist ... http://www.cuttingedge.org/articles/RC104.htm Charles, Defender of Faiths: Charles and the Microchip Implant Sheeple Tract Backup HOW THE VATICAN CREATED ISLAM David Icke Website - 'How the Vatican created Islam' How the Vatican Created Islam The Vatican and Islam. Many of his writings are locked up in the secret archives of the Vatican. He should be considered the real father of Islam. Ruins of Hippo Regius. ... http://www.reformation.org/vatican-and-islam.html The Vatican created Islam, and the Vatican [Roman Catholic Church] is "baptized 'Judaism'": See Mystery Babylon the Great: Catholic or Jewish? http://watch.pair.com/mystery-babylon.html Islam, Roman Catholicism, "British-Israel", and 'Christian' Zionism, are just some of the many faces of Talmudic Judaism, which is the religion of the Pharisees, which is the underlying religion of the NWO. =========================== THE WAR THE LAMB WINS What follows is an excerpt of a Four Part.... Judaism vs Christianity: The War The Lamb Wins. ... http://www.fixedearth.com/talmud.html The "...as long as there..remain active enemies of the Christian church, we may hope to become Master of the World...the future Jewish King will never reign in the world before Christianity is overthrown - B'nai B'rith speech http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/luther.htm / http://bible.cc/psalms/83-4.htm
Very well stated. I say that as a former Southern Baptist who was horrified by both the blood lust of the congregation and its propensity to practically WORSHIP Dubya in the days and years after 9/11. Their brains literally shut down and went into reptilian mode. It took me until 2005 to stop completely my association with the "brethren," because I still enjoyed the "fellowship," I suppose. I didn't lose faith in God, but I now have NONE in the Baptist and related denominations.
“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston
Correction: He is Jewish and a liberal. He is seen as conservative falsely because he is a Zionist warmonger who supported Bush's war crimes. Bump.
It is no wonder people turn their backs on this sham called Christianity. Look at those who claim to be Christians today. The majority are blood dancing sociopaths filled with hate and loathing for their fellow man. Just read the comments of the proclaimed Christians on TOS2. Sweetjustice, Bob Celeste, David Ben Ariel, JoeSnuffy, rifle22. These people can't get enough of other people's blood. They want to kill, kill, kill everyone and everything. Nuke the whole fucking world. Of course, being cowards, they leave the killing to others. Never would they ever do it themselves, so their blood lust will never be satisfied. As someone who lives in the Southern Baptist Bible belt as well as an Assembly of God and evangelical stronghold, I can tell you from first hand experience that those before mentioned people are not uncommon within the Christian ranks. On the contrary, they are the rule, not the exception. Those so-called Christian denominations are FILLED with blood dancers. My daughter and her husband, after trying for over a year to make one such Baptist church see the error of their ways, finally, just recently, shook the dust off their feet. Just the other day, they had an overnight guest, whom we suspected might be Jewish. Turns out he was, and he was just the opposite of the above mentioned de-Christianized Zionists. He was very kind, loving, and against killing. I pray Jesus reveals Himself to him. He is a wonderful person.
"...as long as there..remain active enemies of the Christian church, we may hope to become Master of the World...the future Jewish King will never reign in the world before Christianity is overthrown - B'nai B'rith speech http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/luther.htm / http://bible.cc/psalms/83-4.htm
The Baptist Church has a terrible problem with [Judeo] Freemasonry in the church: www.saintsalive.com/freemasonry/fmyandsbc.html www.pbministries.org/Para.../free_mason_ministers.htm www.jesus-is-savior.com/F...emasonry/moody-finney.htm I kind of wonder if the Baptist church was a "British Israel" church from its inception. I read recently that the Washington, DC Baptist Church had its first meeting in the newly built US Treasury building [in 1791, I think]. All those CorpUSA buildings have Masonic corner-stones.
"...as long as there..remain active enemies of the Christian church, we may hope to become Master of the World...the future Jewish King will never reign in the world before Christianity is overthrown - B'nai B'rith speech http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/luther.htm / http://bible.cc/psalms/83-4.htm
The many versus the very few...
The name of the man that laid the cornerstone is recorded somewhere...
Why is that necessary? You said yourself "he's a wonderful person" and that "he was very kind, loving, and against killing." Just because his Jewish faith does not recognize Jesus Christ as the Savior, how does that put him at a disadvantage? Who knows anything for certain? Maybe the Jews and/or Muslims and/or Buddhists are right and we Christians are the ones who have it wrong. What I'm suggesting to you is that even to Christians, never mind to those of other faiths, it is very off-putting to hear that sort of holier than thou, haughty, smugness as in... we're in the cat bird's seat, we've got the inside track to enjoying eternal life, and we're so generous we're praying that folks of other faiths get on board and see things the way Christians do because that's only route to salvation. I doubt you meant it the way it sounded, but I'm just letting you know how your words come across to me, at least.
What I'm suggesting to you is that even to Christians, never mind to those of other faiths, it is very off-putting to hear that sort of holier than thou, haughty, smugness as in... we're in the cat bird's seat, we've got the inside track to enjoying eternal life, and we're so generous we're praying that folks of other faiths get on board and see things the way Christians do because that's only route to salvation. Even claiming to be a Christian isn't good enough for many. For a whole bunch of Christians, unless you are a member of their particular cult, you are damned to hell. Read Richard what's his name on this site or David Ben Ariel or Sweetjustice on TOS2 for examples. Yet not a single one of these biblical "authorities" can prove that their beliefs/biblical interpretations are the ones that are correct. They can't live and let live and allow that others read the bible differently than they do. Actually, I can understand this. There is only one truth, not 38000+ truths, which is the number of Christian denominations in the world. I reject the idea that any "God" would allow a man/woman to spend their entire lives devoutly living their faith only to damn them to eternal hell because they didn't guess correctly. Yet guess is what one must do. I'll have none of it. If this Christian God want's me to worship him like some egomaniacal tyrant with a low self-esteem, then he can damn well appear before me and tell me which denomination is the one I should be following. Until then, he can kiss my ass.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976 The purpose of the legal system is to protect the elites from the wrath of those they plunder.- Elliott Jackalope "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat
He was a writer of the hard Left. Back during the Xlinton years, now and then he'd poke fun at Xlinton or some lib and they'd just adore him over at TOS1. Same as with Andrew "Milky Loads" Sullivan until a few of us posted links to his online nude ads where he was trying to find men to have AIDS-sex with him.
that sort of holier than thou, haughty, smugness as in... we're in the cat bird's seat, we've got the inside track to enjoying eternal life, and we're so generous we're praying that folks of other faiths get on board and see things the way Christians do because that's only route to salvation. I doubt you meant it the way it sounded, but I'm just letting you know how your words come across to me, at least. He's a better person than I, IMO. I already had this conversation with my son-in-law this morning. He reminded me that God has to "call" someone....I don't remember where that is. Here??? Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, Romans 8:29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; bible.cc/1_corinthians/2-7.htm He's a better person than I am, as I said. I don't have a clue what God sees in me. [feel better?]
"...as long as there..remain active enemies of the Christian church, we may hope to become Master of the World...the future Jewish King will never reign in the world before Christianity is overthrown - B'nai B'rith speech http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/luther.htm / http://bible.cc/psalms/83-4.htm
I know exactly who and what he is. Unlike the Republitards pretending to be conservatives, I didn't change my opinion of him just because he championed a cause I believed in. He's a one time admitted socialist who morphed into a committed globalist. He is an enemy of everything the founder fathers believed in so it comes as no surprise that the Republtards at TOS1 adore him. Why shouldn't they adore him when their leadership is enthralled with people like Leon Trotsky and Leo Strauss. Grassroots Republitards and their leadership fit together like milk and cookies.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976 The purpose of the legal system is to protect the elites from the wrath of those they plunder.- Elliott Jackalope "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat
say what? 14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. 18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. 19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth. 20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: 23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. If you want to see where all the divisions came from, see the speech in red at the bottom of this page: www.biblebelievers.org.au/luther.htm ....and this: "......"Jonathan Williams recorded in his LEGIONS OF SATAN, 1781, that Cornwallis revealed to Washington that "a holy war will now begin on America, and when it is ended America will be supposedly the citadel of freedom, but her millions will unknowingly be loyal subjects to the Crown." Cornwallis went on to explain what would seem to be a self contradiction: "Your churches will be used to teach the Jew's religion and in less than two hundred years the whole nation will be working for divine world government. That government that they believe to be divine will be the British Empire. All religions will be permeated with Judaism without even being noticed by the masses, and they will all be under the invisible all-seeing eye of the Grand Architect of Freemasonry." And indeed George Washington himself was a Mason, and he gave back through a false religion what he had won with his army. "Cornwallis well knew that his military defeat was only the beginning of world catastrophe that would be universal and that unrest would continue until mind control could be accomplished through a false religion. What he predicted has come to pass. A brief sketch of American religious history and we have seen Masonry infused into every church in America With their veiled Phallic religion. "Darby and the Plymouth Brethren brought a Jewish Christianity to America. Masons Rutherford and Russell started Jehovah Witnesses' Judaism which is now worldwide with their message of the divine kingdom. Mason Joseph Smith started Mormon Judaism with its Jewish teaching of millennialism. "At the turn of the twentieth century there appeared the Scofield Bible with a Jewish interpretation of the prophecies. With wide use of this "helpful" aid all the American churches have silently become synagogues. We now have Baptist Jews, Methodist Jews, Church of God Jews, apostate Catholic Jews, and many Protestant Jews throughout America. We are aliens in our own country because of false religion. All are praying for divine deliverance into that "Divine Government" which Cornwallis knew to be the British Empire. "A false religion has been used to deceive us into allegiance to our enemies of Yorktown and Bunker Hill. No! Not a gun has been fired but the invisible and malignant process of conquering America with the Jew's religion has gone on unabated. The Union Jack has been planted in our hearts with religious deception. All has happened "legally," "constitutionally," "freely" and completely within our most sacred trust -- our churches. Religious deception is painless innoculation against truth. It cannot be removed from the conscience with surgery, yet it is the motivator of our actions and directly controls our lives. Once man gives over to false religion, he is no longer rational because he originates no thought. His life is controlled by whomever controls his religion. ....." "...as long as there..remain active enemies of the Christian church, we may hope to become Master of the World...the future Jewish King will never reign in the world before Christianity is overthrown - B'nai B'rith speech http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/luther.htm / http://bible.cc/psalms/83-4.htm
Your problem is with God's Word...and that's a problem.
I have no idea who Jonathon Williams is or why I should give his writings any merit. Just because something is written on paper or in a book does not make it true. As far as I know, this Williams character is the same type of run of the mill crackpot we see on the internet today. As for the different denominations, this problem began wayyyy before the 18th century. The Oriental Churches split from what was then mainstream Christianity in 451. The Orthodox and Roman Catholics split in 1031. Protestantism was invented by Luther in the 16th Century, and after that you had denominations popping up like zits on a teenager - Calvinism, the various Reformed churches, Presbyterianism, Methodism, the various Anabaptist sects, the list goes on and on. This all took place well before this Jonathon Williams character.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976 The purpose of the legal system is to protect the elites from the wrath of those they plunder.- Elliott Jackalope "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat
I believe that God loves and speaks to all His children irrespective of their particular religious affiliation/denomination. I don't view my humble outlook - ie. understanding that I am only one of His many earthly children - as being "a problem."
I've talked with CH in DC. He's an atheist. What I can't figure out is the 'close relationship' of Jews and Christians. Christians believe Christ is the Son of God (Immaculate Conception) and the Jews deny what Christians believe
I am not sure why you'd think I'd "feel better" to read that you are now diminishing your own self-worth as compared to your visitor who was of the Jewish faith. I think you missed my point in msg #23 entirely. I'll try again. What I was pointing out to you previously had nothing to do with your value or his value as people. What I wanted you to understand is that your qualifying phrase "I pray Jesus reveals Himself to him" after praising your visitor's good human qualities was off-putting to me because you seemed to put a higher value on your Christian religious beliefs above his religious beliefs - in that you felt he was so nice BUT for the fact that he still needed to recognize Christ. That's all I was saying to you. It's one thing to pray for a bad person to see the light and ask for God's forgiveness of his bad actions but it's quite another thing entirely to pray for a nice non-Christian person to see the light about Jesus Christ and embrace Christianity.
More like playing with fire.
Search [or see below]: The Vatican created Islam. [Warning: The David Icke article shut down my computer]. The purpose is to destroy the true church. So which church is the "true" church? Don't tell me. The one you belong to right?
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976 The purpose of the legal system is to protect the elites from the wrath of those they plunder.- Elliott Jackalope "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat
Like I said, Scrapper, you have a problem with what Jesus said...
The problem in many 'faith' churches and other places is that a 'dual covenant' in effect is being taught. The 'jews' get another shot because they've been blinded, etc. It would be nice if they could all see; just as if WE could ALL see...
Organized religion is a fraud in most instances. It's an arm of the government in some cases. Hitchens is on a mission and he's a fraud too.
The U.S. Govt has become a tyrannical butcher; U.S. taxpayers are accomplices to international murder and mayhem. If you satisfy your fears by bowing to this butcher, you forfeit your humanity and possibly your soul.
Do you also believe that Reptilian humanoids control the world as David Icke contends?
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976 The purpose of the legal system is to protect the elites from the wrath of those they plunder.- Elliott Jackalope "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat
Does explain a lot :)
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
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#2. To: belmontconservative (#1)
I see so many so called Christians today on chat forums that for example make fun of black people(read LP)
#3. To: Brian S (#0)
Hitchens attempts to divorce conservatism from religious teachings
#4. To: Jethro Tull (#2)
The owner of LP insults Christians, and after some self righteous puffery, some trot back to her like well trained puppies. It's a sorry sight.
#5. To: Brian S (#0)
Hitchens .......made it clear he does actually consider Christianity a fraud.
#6. To: belmontconservative (#1)
I still am trying to remain a Christian but sometimes it tough. I see so many so called Christians today on chat forums that for example make fun of black people(read LP) and I deal with many hard core so called "Christian" business owners who beat their chest over their strong faith in God and have a bible on their desk but are the most greediest, lying hypocrites you ever run across.
#7. To: belmontconservative (#1)
but are the most greediest, lying hypocrites you ever run across.
#8. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#5)
Hitchens .......made it clear he does actually consider Christianity a fraud.
#9. To: Brian S (#0)
Hitchens echoed that idea, but made it clear he does actually consider Christianity a fraud.
#10. To: noone222 (#9)
This statement on its face supports the notion that "IT TAKES ONE TO KNOW ONE" ! Hitchens has a right to consider Christianity a fraud ... lots of people do.
#11. To: belmontconservative (#8)
#12. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#11)
#13. To: Brian S (#0)
#14. To: PaulCJ (#12)
I have a question. How does importing tens of millions of muslims into Europe benefit the Vatican?
#15. To: Brian S, all (#0)
Hitchens: Christianity Is A Fraud If It’s Not Literally True
#16. To: PaulCJ (#12)
How does importing tens of millions of muslims into Europe benefit the Vatican?
Pope Calls for a United Europe
Pope Calls for a New Age of Peace and Harmony
Pope John Paul II to Climb Mount Sinai with Jewish and Moslem Leaders [This is the article I wanted, and would link to it, but I am afraid it might shut down my computer. This was a major mistake on their part IMO. You will know them by their fruits! bible.cc/galatians/4-24.htm / http://kingjbible.com/galatians/4.htm verses 21-31!].
The Pope Supports Evolution
"Defender of the Faith" to be changed to the plural "Defender of Faiths". ... it has been confirmed that he converted to Islam in Turkey about 1993. He ... Prince Charles: The Sustainable Prince by Joan Veon (160 pages) ... http://www.hebroots.org/hebrootsarchive/9807/980722_g.html
Prince Charles is the ONLY person in the world to whom "And the dragon gave him .... Joan Veon has done extensive research on the United Nations and their ... http://www.moresureword.com/shpleBU.htm
Apr 13, 2006 ... How the Vatican created Islam. The astonishing story from an ex-Jesuit priest, Alberto Rivera, which was told to him by Cardinal Bea while ... http://www.davidicke.com/content/view/745/42/ [WARNING: SHUT DOWN MY WEBSITE]
Aug 4, 2007 ... What I'm going to tell you is what I learned in secret briefings in the Vatican when I was a Jesuit priest, under oath and induction. http://www.scribd.com/doc/222227...the-Vatican-Created-Islam
In THE WAR THE LAMB WINS the ultimate Truth bomb is armed and ready. ... The god of the Talmud is the opposite of Jesus. One must go. ... http://www.fixedearth.com/the_bible/lambwins.html
Even more--when it is further known that the Pharisee Talmud/Kabbala ... http://www.fixedearth.com/Theistic%20Evol%20Swan%20Song.htm
#17. To: Hayek Fan (#15)
(Edited)
#18. To: Horse (#13)
conservative writer Christopher Hitchens
#19. To: Hayek Fan (#15)
#20. To: Sam Houston, Hayek Fan (#17)
#21. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#16)
International Islam and Judaism, in spite of the antagonism to each other, are, through financial and secret society penetration, allied to the "Crown" against Christendom.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams 
#22. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#20)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#23. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#19)
I pray Jesus reveals Himself to him.
#24. To: scrapper2, AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#23)
Who knows anything for certain? Maybe the Jews and/or Muslims and/or Buddhists are right and we Christians are the ones who have it wrong.
#25. To: Hayek Fan (#15)
What I find funny is how a confessed liberal is admired by conservatives today all because he is pro-war. Forget the fact that prior to baby Bush he was considered an enemy because of his big government beliefs.
#26. To: scrapper2 (#23)
Just because his Jewish faith does not recognize Jesus Christ as the Savior, how does that put him at a disadvantage?
#27. To: TooConservative (#25)
He was a writer of the hard Left. Back during the Xlinton years, now and then he'd poke fun at Xlinton or some lib and they'd just adore him over at TOS1.
#28. To: Hayek Fan (#24)
If this Christian God want's me to worship him like some egomaniacal tyrant with a low self-esteem, then he can damn well appear before me and tell me which denomination is the one I should be following.
#29. To: scrapper2 (#23)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#30. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#28)
#31. To: Rotara (#29)
Your problem is with God's Word...and that's a problem.
#32. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#28)
(Edited)
#33. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#26)
He's a better person than I am, as I said. I don't have a clue what God sees in me. [feel better?]
#34. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#16)
Islam is a tool of the Vatican.
#35. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#16)
Islam is a tool of the Vatican.
#36. To: scrapper2 (#31)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#37. To: Itistoolate (#32)
What I can't figure out is the 'close relationship' of Jews and Christians. Christians believe Christ is the Son of God (Immaculate Conception) and the Jews deny what Christians believe
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#38. To: PaulCJ (#10)
(Edited)
Are you talking about "Christianity" as organized religion?
#39. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#16)
(Edited)
The David Icke article
#40. To: Hayek Fan (#39)
Do you also believe that Reptilian humanoids control the world
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