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Religion
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Title: Hitchens: Christianity Is A Fraud If It’s Not Literally True
Source: RAW STORY
URL Source: http://rawstory.com/2009/10/hitchens-christianity-fraud/
Published: Oct 26, 2009
Author: By David Edwards and Daniel Tencer
Post Date: 2009-10-26 11:32:20 by Brian S
Keywords: None
Views: 3134
Comments: 98

If the story of Jesus Christ isn't literally true, then Christianity is a fraud that promotes "a positively wicked doctrine," conservative writer Christopher Hitchens told Fox & Friends Monday morning.

Hitchens, an avowed atheist whose 2007 book God is Not Great attempts to divorce conservatism from religious teachings, discussed the role of religion in American society in the wake of a recent study (PDF) that shows the number of Americans who claim no religious affiliation has roughly doubled in the past two decades, from 8.2 percent in 1990 to 15 percent in 2008.

The study, conducted by Trinity College in Hartford, Connecticut, predicts that a full one-quarter of Americans will have no religious affiliation by 2028. The study notes that the number of non-believers among younger people is considerably higher than among older people, suggesting that the trend of Americans growing less religious will continue in coming years.

Those people who claim no religious affiliation are "not all atheists by any means," Hitchens told host Gretchen Carlson. "They're just people who don't attend a church, don't have a faith. I think it's fair to call them agnostics. The number of people, like myself, who think religion is false, that it's a delusion and that it's bad for you, is still pretty small."

Hitchens said Americans are increasingly turning against organized religion "because they want to push back against theocracy and the parties of God and the awful challenge they pose to us internationally."

"By the way, your side seems to be winning in public schools, at least across America," Carlson told Hitchens.

Hitchens appeared on Fox with pastor Douglas Wilson, who appeared along with Hitchens in the recent documentary Collision, which explores the battle of ideas between the religious and the non-religious.

The two came to an unexpected agreement on one issue: They both attacked the notion, popular among some secular thinkers, that Christianity is a socially positive thing even if it's not true.

"If Jesus didn't come back from the dead, then Christianity is appalling, it's an appalling fraud and delusion and every unbeliever should attack it," Wilson said. "Christianity is not good for the world because it makes people decent and sober and that sort of thing. At the end of the day, if it's not true, if it's not objectively true, then I don't have any more use for it than Christopher does."

Hitchens echoed that idea, but made it clear he does actually consider Christianity a fraud.

"They say, well the Bible story's not really true, they're morality tales. Don't listen to it, because if it's based on a fraud, if the virgin birth and the resurrection and the miracles did not occur, which they did not, then those teachings are immoral, they teach that sins can be forgiven by throwing them on to a scapegoat -- a positively wicked doctrine."

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 53.

#15. To: Brian S, all (#0)

Hitchens: Christianity Is A Fraud If It’s Not Literally True

Sounds like he's trying to paraphrase Paul. LOL! What I find funny is how a confessed liberal is admired by conservatives today all because he is pro-war. Forget the fact that prior to baby Bush he was considered an enemy because of his big government beliefs. I never would have thought I'd see the day when a life long liberal would be able to use his popularity among the supposed conservative movement to "attempt to divorce conservatism from religious teachings." If he had tried this 20 years ago, he would be pissing in the wind and no one would read his book or give him any publicity, yet now he's on Fox. LOL! We are living in Bizarro world. Where the fuck is Superman to take us back?

It is no wonder people turn their backs on this sham called Christianity. Look at those who claim to be Christians today. The majority are blood dancing sociopaths filled with hate and loathing for their fellow man. Just read the comments of the proclaimed Christians on TOS2. Sweetjustice, Bob Celeste, David Ben Ariel, JoeSnuffy, rifle22. These people can't get enough of other people's blood. They want to kill, kill, kill everyone and everything. Nuke the whole fucking world. Of course, being cowards, they leave the killing to others. Never would they ever do it themselves, so their blood lust will never be satisfied. As someone who lives in the Southern Baptist Bible belt as well as an Assembly of God and evangelical stronghold, I can tell you from first hand experience that those before mentioned people are not uncommon within the Christian ranks. On the contrary, they are the rule, not the exception. Those so-called Christian denominations are FILLED with blood dancers.

Then you have those who try to use the Bible to justify forced income redistribution upon us all. People like Destro, or Vicomte13. They somehow forget, or refuse to admit, that the very same Bible says that any giving should be voluntary and completely up to those doing the giving. Never does their God tell the Apostles to use the force of government to steal from one group in order to give to another, whether that other be the poor (who receive very little or the largess) or the government bureaucrats (who receive the majority of the ill-gotten booty). Oh, and if you disagree, then you are a "bad Christian."

More and more people are waking up to this fraud. Unfortunately, at least for those of us that cherish the freedom and liberty envisioned by out founding fathers, people appear to be replacing the worship of the Christian God with the worship of government.

There appears to be no answer. IMHO, the "great experiment" has failed. There is a reason that the majority of humanity was subjugated to serf status throughout history. Man is not able to live in freedom and liberty. Not because he cannot, but because he refuses to. It's too much responsibility for most and because they cannot handle the responsibility, they do not want those who CAN handle it to have it.

F.A. Hayek Fan  posted on  2009-10-26   15:43:58 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Hayek Fan (#15)

It is no wonder people turn their backs on this sham called Christianity. Look at those who claim to be Christians today. The majority are blood dancing sociopaths filled with hate and loathing for their fellow man. Just read the comments of the proclaimed Christians on TOS2. Sweetjustice, Bob Celeste, David Ben Ariel, JoeSnuffy, rifle22. These people can't get enough of other people's blood. They want to kill, kill, kill everyone and everything. Nuke the whole fucking world. Of course, being cowards, they leave the killing to others. Never would they ever do it themselves, so their blood lust will never be satisfied. As someone who lives in the Southern Baptist Bible belt as well as an Assembly of God and evangelical stronghold, I can tell you from first hand experience that those before mentioned people are not uncommon within the Christian ranks. On the contrary, they are the rule, not the exception. Those so-called Christian denominations are FILLED with blood dancers.

My daughter and her husband, after trying for over a year to make one such Baptist church see the error of their ways, finally, just recently, shook the dust off their feet.

Just the other day, they had an overnight guest, whom we suspected might be Jewish. Turns out he was, and he was just the opposite of the above mentioned de-Christianized Zionists. He was very kind, loving, and against killing. I pray Jesus reveals Himself to him. He is a wonderful person.

AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt  posted on  2009-10-26   16:19:31 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#19)

I pray Jesus reveals Himself to him.

Why is that necessary?

You said yourself "he's a wonderful person" and that "he was very kind, loving, and against killing."

Just because his Jewish faith does not recognize Jesus Christ as the Savior, how does that put him at a disadvantage?

Who knows anything for certain? Maybe the Jews and/or Muslims and/or Buddhists are right and we Christians are the ones who have it wrong.

What I'm suggesting to you is that even to Christians, never mind to those of other faiths, it is very off-putting to hear that sort of holier than thou, haughty, smugness as in... we're in the cat bird's seat, we've got the inside track to enjoying eternal life, and we're so generous we're praying that folks of other faiths get on board and see things the way Christians do because that's only route to salvation.

I doubt you meant it the way it sounded, but I'm just letting you know how your words come across to me, at least.

scrapper2  posted on  2009-10-26   17:01:48 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: scrapper2, AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#23)

Who knows anything for certain? Maybe the Jews and/or Muslims and/or Buddhists are right and we Christians are the ones who have it wrong.

What I'm suggesting to you is that even to Christians, never mind to those of other faiths, it is very off-putting to hear that sort of holier than thou, haughty, smugness as in... we're in the cat bird's seat, we've got the inside track to enjoying eternal life, and we're so generous we're praying that folks of other faiths get on board and see things the way Christians do because that's only route to salvation.

Even claiming to be a Christian isn't good enough for many. For a whole bunch of Christians, unless you are a member of their particular cult, you are damned to hell. Read Richard what's his name on this site or David Ben Ariel or Sweetjustice on TOS2 for examples. Yet not a single one of these biblical "authorities" can prove that their beliefs/biblical interpretations are the ones that are correct. They can't live and let live and allow that others read the bible differently than they do. Actually, I can understand this. There is only one truth, not 38000+ truths, which is the number of Christian denominations in the world.

I reject the idea that any "God" would allow a man/woman to spend their entire lives devoutly living their faith only to damn them to eternal hell because they didn't guess correctly. Yet guess is what one must do.

I'll have none of it. If this Christian God want's me to worship him like some egomaniacal tyrant with a low self-esteem, then he can damn well appear before me and tell me which denomination is the one I should be following. Until then, he can kiss my ass.

F.A. Hayek Fan  posted on  2009-10-26   17:25:19 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: Hayek Fan (#24)

If this Christian God want's me to worship him like some egomaniacal tyrant with a low self-esteem, then he can damn well appear before me and tell me which denomination is the one I should be following.

say what?

14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. 18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. 19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: 23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

kingjbible.com/john/17.htm

If you want to see where all the divisions came from, see the speech in red at the bottom of this page: www.biblebelievers.org.au/luther.htm

....and this:

"......"Jonathan Williams recorded in his LEGIONS OF SATAN, 1781, that Cornwallis revealed to Washington that "a holy war will now begin on America, and when it is ended America will be supposedly the citadel of freedom, but her millions will unknowingly be loyal subjects to the Crown." Cornwallis went on to explain what would seem to be a self contradiction: "Your churches will be used to teach the Jew's religion and in less than two hundred years the whole nation will be working for divine world government. That government that they believe to be divine will be the British Empire. All religions will be permeated with Judaism without even being noticed by the masses, and they will all be under the invisible all-seeing eye of the Grand Architect of Freemasonry." And indeed George Washington himself was a Mason, and he gave back through a false religion what he had won with his army.

"Cornwallis well knew that his military defeat was only the beginning of world catastrophe that would be universal and that unrest would continue until mind control could be accomplished through a false religion. What he predicted has come to pass. A brief sketch of American religious history and we have seen Masonry infused into every church in America With their veiled Phallic religion.

"Darby and the Plymouth Brethren brought a Jewish Christianity to America. Masons Rutherford and Russell started Jehovah Witnesses' Judaism which is now worldwide with their message of the divine kingdom. Mason Joseph Smith started Mormon Judaism with its Jewish teaching of millennialism.

"At the turn of the twentieth century there appeared the Scofield Bible with a Jewish interpretation of the prophecies. With wide use of this "helpful" aid all the American churches have silently become synagogues. We now have Baptist Jews, Methodist Jews, Church of God Jews, apostate Catholic Jews, and many Protestant Jews throughout America. We are aliens in our own country because of false religion. All are praying for divine deliverance into that "Divine Government" which Cornwallis knew to be the British Empire.

"A false religion has been used to deceive us into allegiance to our enemies of Yorktown and Bunker Hill. No! Not a gun has been fired but the invisible and malignant process of conquering America with the Jew's religion has gone on unabated. The Union Jack has been planted in our hearts with religious deception. All has happened "legally," "constitutionally," "freely" and completely within our most sacred trust -- our churches. Religious deception is painless innoculation against truth. It cannot be removed from the conscience with surgery, yet it is the motivator of our actions and directly controls our lives. Once man gives over to false religion, he is no longer rational because he originates no thought. His life is controlled by whomever controls his religion. ....."

www.sweetliberty.org/issu...ax/unionjack_epilogue.htm

AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt  posted on  2009-10-26   18:07:33 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#28) (Edited)

I've talked with CH in DC. He's an atheist.

What I can't figure out is the 'close relationship' of Jews and Christians. Christians believe Christ is the Son of God (Immaculate Conception) and the Jews deny what Christians believe

Itistoolate  posted on  2009-10-26   19:15:03 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: Itistoolate (#32)

What I can't figure out is the 'close relationship' of Jews and Christians.

In short, it began with the forefathers of Christian Zionism 150-200 years ago. Darby and Scofield after him twisted the Abrahamic Promise and fused the fate of Christians to that of Jewish Zionism. God promised Abraham the He would make Abraham a father of many nations, more land than they eye could see, his house would number as the stars and God would bless those that blessed Abraham and curse those who cursed him. Today, this promise is seen as those who bless Israel, God will bless. Those who curse Israel, God will curse.

This promise has many layers to it in reality. Abraham was in a state of "death". He thought he was seeing the end of his days with no heir and no lands to pass down. God brought Abraham from death to life. This is also a prophecy of the coming Christ. Through Adam, death and corruption entered. Christ fulfilled what Adam could not, restored creation, destroyed death by death and offers us life. Abraham would have complete understanding of this by earlier having met the three angles outside his tent, one of whom was the Word Incarnate; God making this covenant; and God would eventually ask Abraham to sacrifice his only son. Christ, of one essence with the Father, is "father" to all (many) nations. Through Christ, we too pass from death to life. These "heirs" number more than the stars in the sky. And those who follow God and do good in this life will find a blessing in the next one. Those who do not, risk that condition of a spiritual hell in the next one.

scooter  posted on  2009-10-26   22:56:57 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


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