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Title: Hitchens: Christianity Is A Fraud If It’s Not Literally True
Source:
RAW STORY
URL Source: http://rawstory.com/2009/10/hitchens-christianity-fraud/
Published: Oct 26, 2009
Author: By David Edwards and Daniel Tencer
Post Date: 2009-10-26 11:32:20 by Brian S
Keywords: None
Views: 1779
Comments: 98
If the story of Jesus Christ isn't literally true, then Christianity is a fraud that promotes "a positively wicked doctrine," conservative writer Christopher Hitchens told Fox & Friends Monday morning. Hitchens, an avowed atheist whose 2007 book God is Not Great attempts to divorce conservatism from religious teachings, discussed the role of religion in American society in the wake of a recent study (PDF) that shows the number of Americans who claim no religious affiliation has roughly doubled in the past two decades, from 8.2 percent in 1990 to 15 percent in 2008. The study, conducted by Trinity College in Hartford, Connecticut, predicts that a full one-quarter of Americans will have no religious affiliation by 2028. The study notes that the number of non-believers among younger people is considerably higher than among older people, suggesting that the trend of Americans growing less religious will continue in coming years. Those people who claim no religious affiliation are "not all atheists by any means," Hitchens told host Gretchen Carlson. "They're just people who don't attend a church, don't have a faith. I think it's fair to call them agnostics. The number of people, like myself, who think religion is false, that it's a delusion and that it's bad for you, is still pretty small." Hitchens said Americans are increasingly turning against organized religion "because they want to push back against theocracy and the parties of God and the awful challenge they pose to us internationally." "By the way, your side seems to be winning in public schools, at least across America," Carlson told Hitchens. Hitchens appeared on Fox with pastor Douglas Wilson, who appeared along with Hitchens in the recent documentary Collision, which explores the battle of ideas between the religious and the non-religious. The two came to an unexpected agreement on one issue: They both attacked the notion, popular among some secular thinkers, that Christianity is a socially positive thing even if it's not true. "If Jesus didn't come back from the dead, then Christianity is appalling, it's an appalling fraud and delusion and every unbeliever should attack it," Wilson said. "Christianity is not good for the world because it makes people decent and sober and that sort of thing. At the end of the day, if it's not true, if it's not objectively true, then I don't have any more use for it than Christopher does." Hitchens echoed that idea, but made it clear he does actually consider Christianity a fraud. "They say, well the Bible story's not really true, they're morality tales. Don't listen to it, because if it's based on a fraud, if the virgin birth and the resurrection and the miracles did not occur, which they did not, then those teachings are immoral, they teach that sins can be forgiven by throwing them on to a scapegoat -- a positively wicked doctrine."
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#47. To: Brian S (#0)
I still think that if a person follows the teachings of Lord Buddha, Do harm to no one. Always be honest and truthful. Always seek wisdom, that if there's a God.?,, you'll be rewarded by him (who ever he is) in some type of "afterlife,", and if there isn't a "God", we've got to make the best of this life. Om Mani Padme Hum..>>!!!!
This is true. Without conservative Christians, free spirits like Hitchens are lined up or enslaved for their entire one and only life. However, his actual mission is dragging down others into the abyss of hopelessness and nothingness just for spite.
Siz, you're a good man, but still ISO. That's a good thing... But there is no Lord but Christ. Why gamble with your soul and shot at paradise?
I have to laugh at so called "intellectuals" who are "too smart" to believe in an Almighty God. Why couldn't he actually use mere humans to give His "instructions" rather than show up at the foot of their beds IN PERSON? ;-)
Just imagine, if our leaders, the politicians, and the officers of law enforcement followed the simple teachings of Lord Buddha. Do harm to no one. Always be honest and truthful. Always seek wisdom, www.youtube.com wouldn't have a zillion videos of police brutality, WHO wouldn't be attempting to spread a planet wide plague, and Obummer wouldn't be what he is either.
If you'd like to peruse a fascinating theoretical insight into the history of the Vatican: http://www.amazon.com/Woman-Rides-Beast-Catholic-Church/dp/1565071999/ref=sr_1_1/187-3437545-3151925?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1256611980&sr=8-1
In short, it began with the forefathers of Christian Zionism 150-200 years ago. Darby and Scofield after him twisted the Abrahamic Promise and fused the fate of Christians to that of Jewish Zionism. God promised Abraham the He would make Abraham a father of many nations, more land than they eye could see, his house would number as the stars and God would bless those that blessed Abraham and curse those who cursed him. Today, this promise is seen as those who bless Israel, God will bless. Those who curse Israel, God will curse. This promise has many layers to it in reality. Abraham was in a state of "death". He thought he was seeing the end of his days with no heir and no lands to pass down. God brought Abraham from death to life. This is also a prophecy of the coming Christ. Through Adam, death and corruption entered. Christ fulfilled what Adam could not, restored creation, destroyed death by death and offers us life. Abraham would have complete understanding of this by earlier having met the three angles outside his tent, one of whom was the Word Incarnate; God making this covenant; and God would eventually ask Abraham to sacrifice his only son. Christ, of one essence with the Father, is "father" to all (many) nations. Through Christ, we too pass from death to life. These "heirs" number more than the stars in the sky. And those who follow God and do good in this life will find a blessing in the next one. Those who do not, risk that condition of a spiritual hell in the next one.
"What began in Russia will end in America."- 1930, Elder Ignatius of Harbin, Manchuria.
Even better - the teachings of Christ. With the bonus of Everlasting Life... But siz - even Buddhists lie, cheat, steal,etc. As to "wisdom," isn't it in the eye/ear of the beholder or beholdee?
You should go back for a month and see if you missed anything. I'll guess you have.
The irony is sickening. I guess the adage of "the enemy of my enemy..." is in effect here. Except Hitchens hates everyone and everything. Never does their God tell the Apostles to use the force of government to steal from one group in order to give to another, whether that other be the poor (who receive very little or the largess) or the government bureaucrats (who receive the majority of the ill-gotten booty). Oh, and if you disagree, then you are a "bad Christian." Great point. IMHO, the "great experiment" has failed. There is a reason that the majority of humanity was subjugated to serf status throughout history. Man is not able to live in freedom and liberty. Not because he cannot, but because he refuses to. It's too much responsibility for most and because they cannot handle the responsibility, they do not want those who CAN handle it to have it. You're probably right; Man is too lazy and greedy and covetous to ever maintain his true freedom.
Sometime they (we) do; The frustration of having our personal liberties, heritage and earnings stolen in broad daylight will do that...For now, venting on these boards will suffice in lieu of actually smacking and swatting away the REAL "sociopaths." Now don't tell me you're not going to defend yourself and just fork over your lunch-money, the clothes on your back, and your kids?
Everlasting Life... Amen, and if "Christ" is a fair and openminded guy, he'll be fair with all of us, when that time comes, who've led good, honest, and clean lives.
"....THE POPE AND ONE WORLD RELIGION / GOVERNMENT Pope Calls for a United Europe Pope Calls for a New Age of Peace and Harmony Mystery Babylon the Great Hear ya. It's a trip, ain't it?
As the Ultimate Judge He WILL be "fair." He's the ONLY ONE who will decide a Jew, Buddhist, a Muslim, or even an athiest there destination. But why let it come down to His Judgment? Siz - we are ALL "dirty"; None of us is good enough on our own merits. That's the point. Is 99% good, clean and honest "clean enough" in God's eyes? Not really...
I doubt you meant it the way it sounded, but I'm just letting you know how your words come across to me, at least. Pretty well articulated; Probably why Christians are resented. It's a matter of style, and I absolutely understand. Arrogance in Christians is a problem. True humility is always the way.
That's just it, our "destination" after we die is a never ending "mystery," like a "saga."
I'll have none of it. If this Christian God want's me to worship him like some egomaniacal tyrant with a low self-esteem, then he can damn well appear before me and tell me which denomination is the one I should be following. Until then, he can kiss my ass. It's all pretty simple, HF. The Gospel is IT. Of course religious profiteers have exploited the faith - no one more than the Vatican.... Holding a grudge against God and His Plan because man's "religions" monopolize "heaven's rules" like Club 54 exclusivity doesn't make sense. Who are you spiting by rejecting Salvation but your own soul? That said, I understand where you're coming from.
NOT for a Christian. Well, lemme clarify - the extent and concept of paradise is immeasurable. The worse-case "mystery" at the end of our respective saga can be like Monte Hall's Let's Make A Deal...and having guessed wrong by trading that '63 Vette you'd already "won" for a tiny gift-wrapped box, hoping for a wad of billion dollar bills.
That scenerio would fall into the "greed" catagory. Greed is one of the seven deadly sins.
Who gives two shits what this rum soaked commie turned conservative writer thinks about anything?
Obama's health care plan shall be written by a committee whose head says he doesn't understand it, passed by a Congress that hasn't read it, signed by a president who smokes and has no birth certificate, funded by a treasury chief who did not pay his taxes, overseen by a surgeon general who is overweight and financed by a country that is nearly broke. What could possibly go wrong? - buckeroo Hitchens is a self-promoting, self-inflated, flagellance sniffing suck ass that scream out in arrogance about a God he doesn't care to understand ... mostly because Hitchens is his own god. I don't care for those claiming brilliance all the fucking time yet refuse to offer one iota of supporting evidence ! Brilliance and Arrogance do not share the same address.
The U.S. Govt has become a tyrannical butcher; U.S. taxpayers are accomplices to international murder and mayhem. If you satisfy your fears by bowing to this butcher, you forfeit your humanity and possibly your soul.
The veil slips - Hitchens' use of the word "scapegoat". Now we know the reason for Hitchens' visceral hatred and demonization of Christianity. Try as he might to make this curious vendetta sound like an intellectual exercise, there's no denying that Hitchens wants to put a stake through the heart of Christian theology because he believes Christianity is the reason his tribe was persecuted. Were it not for Christianity, Jews would bask in the love of humanity throughout the ages. Lalalalala... Hitchens has a serious chip on his shoulder - he should grow up and see reality for what it is.
Hitchens is a living, breathing, walking, talking personification of original sin.
George W. Bush ... => U.S. SCREWED. Sometime they (we) do; The frustration of having our personal liberties, heritage and earnings stolen in broad daylight will do that...For now, venting on these boards will suffice in lieu of actually smacking and swatting away the REAL "sociopaths." I disagree that this has anything to do with it. The anger people feel towards their government is a righteous anger born out of a government that is acting outside of its legal and moral boundaries (regardless of what the USSC says). The government knows it is wrong and most of the people know that it is wrong. That is why the government is intruding more and more into our lives. It has nothing to do with terrorism and everything to do with protecting their asses. I'm talking about their dancing in the blood of women, children and dead American soldiers for their own blood lusts. They go way beyond wanting to "protect America." They thrive and receive enjoyment in the death of others, even if those others are American soldiers. They just can't get enough.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976 The purpose of the legal system is to protect the elites from the wrath of those they plunder.- Elliott Jackalope "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat
I say that as a former Southern Baptist who was horrified by both the blood lust of the congregation and its propensity to practically WORSHIP Dubya in the days and years after 9/11. Their brains literally shut down and went into reptilian mode. It took me until 2005 to stop completely my association with the "brethren," because I still enjoyed the "fellowship," I suppose. I didn't lose faith in God, but I now have NONE in the Baptist and related denominations. And very well said to you, Sam. My Mom and Dad both grew up in fundamentalist faiths. I loved them dearly as I loved all of that group of antecedents with whom I became personally acquainted. They were a diverse bunch but if a scoundrel existed in their midst, I never recognized him or her. But about three decades ago I converted to Roman Catholicism. I was persuaded to do so by a wide ranging host as diverse as St. Augustine to Gilbert Chesterton, and many, many others. I found Chesterton a joy to read, a master of communication, speaking in short and perceptive ways, including parables. His words ring as fresh and true today as when written nearly a century ago. One of my favorite Chesterton quotations goes "When people cease to believe in God, they don't believe in nothing; they believe in anything." Hear ye, global climate loons. Just my two cents.
George W. Bush ... => U.S. SCREWED. I remember discussing this subject with a nun back in my Catholic grade school days. We were discussing the American indians and jungle natives(say the ones who led good lives as you mentioned in your example) who never knew of Christianity-pre 1600 days. Since they were not "saved" would they be subject to a guaranteed ride to hell because they never knew about Jesus and Christ. According to her, yes. This when I started to question the church.
This is obviously a "deep" subject which has been on the minds of men for centuries.
Many thoughtful men would like to drop this troublesome doctrine, but without it the whole house of cards will come tumbling down.
It's rather like The Protocols. The Jews say they're a fraud. The little fact that they portray exactly what is happening today is irrelevant I suppose. Perhaps the fact that the world is suffering under the "hammer of the whole earth" [ bible.cc/jeremiah/50-23.htm ] which is [Judeo-Masonic-Jesuit] "British Israel", otherwise known as COMMUNISM [or THE BRITISH EMPIRE, as Jonathan Williams said, or not], is irrelevant as well. Perhaps I should have posted the prelude to that quote from Jonathan Williams: "....Senator Joseph McCarthy did much research on the Communist conspiracy. He came too close when he discovered British Israel and its Kingdom Message propaganda. The following quotes are from an article with the title: GEORGE WASHINGTON'S SURRENDER: "And many of the people of the land became Jews......" http://www.sweetliberty.org/issu...ax/unionjack_epilogue.htm You might want to take a quick look at these as well: British Israel 1 **** British Israel 2 [*** 9/11 planned by British Israel/City of London/Rothschilds since AT LEAST the 1930's, to coincide with Christ's birthday of September 11, 3 BC [ http://cortright.org/birth.htm ], and their New Year, Rosh Hashanah, which was September 17, 2001. Rosh Hashanah is also the Feast of Trumpets, when the Messiah was to be crowned. The Jewish sages call Jesus "Yeshu" which means "may his name be blotted out/forgotten". We now celebrate September 11 as "Patriot Day", even in the churches!] The US IS STILL A BRITISH COLONY EXTORTING TAXES FOR THE CROWN [see the youtube video above], and we are the war club for that "divine government which is the British Empire" IN THEIR OWN CURRENT WORDS: Joseph’s Birthright and the Identity of Israel Today www.britishisrael.co.uk/showart.php?id=45 Ephraim and the Throne of David www.britishisrael.co.uk/showart.php?id=36 The Building Race acts to Pattern The Covenant Nations Act to Pattern In the Siege of Civilization www.britishisrael.co.uk/showart.php?id=26 [That last one is about 9/11, and is a large smoking gun, IMO.] As for the different denominations, this problem began wayyyy before the 18th century. The Oriental Churches split from what was then mainstream Christianity in 451. The Orthodox and Roman Catholics split in 1031. Protestantism was invented by Luther in the 16th Century, ... Did you read the first link I gave you? B'nai B'rith speech http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/luther.htm mainstream Christianity What was that? I don't really know all that much about the HISTORY of the church, but it looks like "mainstream Christianity" [the roots of today's "Christian" Zionism?] started in the days of the apostles. Although you probably won't want to wade through it, I thought I'd post some of it as a reference for myself and any others who might be interested. " Simon Peter versus Simon the Sorcerer or St. Peter Meets the Competition!! This is a great expose by the late Dr. E.L. Martin. It documents the true history of the Samaritans, the meaning of the word "peter" in the ancient world and the "church" that was established at Rome by Simon the Sorcerer. "But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one: To whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, This man is the great power of God. And to him they had regard, because that of long time he had bewitched them with sorceries. But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done. Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost. And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money, Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost. But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money. Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God. Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee. For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity. Then answered Simon, and said, Pray ye to the LORD for me, that none of these things which ye have spoken come upon me." (Acts 8:9-24). Right from the very beginning, Satan had his counterfeit "messiah" operating right in the true Messiah's backyard. His name was Simon Magus or Simon the Sorcerer and this man, and not Simon Peter the Apostle, went on to found the Universal Roman "church." His career was the history of Roman Catholicism in miniature. For a long time he bewitched the people with his false miracles. Since the year 800 A.D., Rome has bewitched the world with her false miracles of transubstantiation. Simon believed and was baptized. Outwardly he was a Christian but his belief was only superficial and he was still a pagan at heart. He coveted the apostolic office and saw the opportunity of using Christianity to make money — a business corporation masquerading as the church of Christ!! From Simon Magus we get the word simony which means to buy a religious office with money. After his encounter with St. Peter, this magician went to Rome and by tricks and false miracles established a "Christian church" in that city. This man can truly be considered as the first of the age long dynasty of Popes —many coming in Christ's name and deceiving many (Matt. 25:5)......... .... What Did Simon and the Samaritans Believe? One of the most scholarly of early church historians was Harnack, who wrote an extensive seven-volume work titled The History of Dogma. This man is recognized as one of the top authorities in the world on this subject. He states: "Long before the appearance of Christianity, combinations of religion had taken place in Syria and Palestine, ESPECIALLY IN SAMARIA, insofar as the ASSYRIAN and BABYLONIAN religious philosophy . . . with its manifold interpretations, had penetrated as far as the eastern shore of the Mediterranean" (Vol. 1, pp. 243, 244). Notice he says the Babylonian religion had come ESPECIALLY TO SAMARIA! ! And why not? The Samaritans were largely Babylonian by race. The Bible tells us in II Kings 17:24 that most of the Samaritans had been taken to Samaria from Babylon and adjacent areas. Later on, Ezra informs us that others who were mainly of Babylonian stock came to Samaria (Ezra 4:9-10). These people amalgamated their Babylonian religious beliefs with some of the teachings from the Old Testament. But they NEVER DEPARTED basically from their own Babylonian-Chaldean religious teachings. If anyone doubts that these Samaritans practiced outright paganism under the guise of YHVH worship, let him read the extraordinarily clear indictments recorded in the inspired Word of God (II Kings 17:24-41). A Brief History of the Samaritans There were originally five Babylonian tribes who had been transported to the area where Northern Israel once lived before Israel’s inglorious defeat and captivity by the Assyrians. When these five tribes moved INTO the vacant land of Samaria, they brought their Babylonian and Assyrian gods with them. After a short while in their new country, they were ravaged by lions. They interpreted this punishment as coming upon them because they failed to honor the god of the new land -- not realizing that there is only One Great GOD, who is not confined to any one land. These Samaritans didn’t have sense enough to realize that the True God of the land had sent Israel into captivity because of their calf-worship and their introduction of Phoenician religion. They asked the Assyrian king to send back one of the priests of Israel to teach them the former religion in order that the plague of lions would be stayed. **** The Israelitish priest who was sent to them taught the religion of Northern Israel. Remember that the priests of Northern Israel were NOT Levites. At the time of Jeroboam, the true priests of God were forced to flee to Jerusalem and Judea (II Chron. 11:14). Jeroboam set up his own form of religion with the calves at DAN [ http://freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/re...i?ArtNum=109139&Disp=2#C2 ] and Bethel (I Kings 12:28-30). He moved the Holy Days from the seventh to the eighth month. He made priests of the lowest of the people, those who were NOT of Levi (I Kings 12:31). All of these acts of Jeroboam were outright violations of God’s law. It was from the time of Jeroboam down to the time of Israel’s captivity, that the majority of Israel was NOT worshipping the True God at all! Jerusalem and God’s temple had been repudiated, and paganism had been introduced on a grand scale. When these transplanted Babylonians who were being afflicted by lions in Samaria asked for a priest of the former people -- THEY GOT ONE! But that priest was one of the former calf-worshipping priests of the rebel Israelites. He was almost as pagan as the Babylonians themselves! This priest of Israel taught the Babylonians (now called Samaritans) to adopt the former worship of the Northern Israelites. The priest taught them to revere YHVH as the "God of the Land." Thus, these Samaritans finally took upon themselves the NAME: The People of YHVH; but their religion was outright paganism -- a mixture of Israelitish calf-worship and Babylonianism -- just as Simon Magus later was eager to appropriate Christ’s NAME, but continue his pagan abominations! Notice what God says about the final condition of these Samaritans. "So these nations feared the Lord [calling themselves God’s people], AND served their graven images, both their children, and their children’s children: as did their fathers [the Babylonians], so do they unto this day" (II Kings 17:41). These people called themselves the worshippers of the True God, but were actually Babylonian idolaters. What Deities Did the Samaritans Worship? It will pay us to notice the gods and goddesses that these forefathers of Simon Magus brought with them to Samaria. The people from the City of Babylon adored SUCCOTH-BENOTH; the Cuthites: NERGAL; the Hamathites: ASHIMA; the Avites: NIBHAZ and TAR-TAK; the Sepharvites: ADRAM-MELECH and ANAM-MELECH. The first deity is SUCCOTH-BENOTH, a goddess. It was Semiramis in the form of Venus. Listen to Jones in his Proper Names of the O.T., p. 348. He says the name signifies "Tabernacles of daughters." It means: "Chapels made of green boughs, which the men of Babylon, who had been transported into Samaria, erected in honor to Venus, and where their daughters were PROSTITUTED by the devotees of that abominable goddess. It was the custom of Babylon, the mother of harlots, and therefore HER SONS DID THE SAME THING IN SAMARIA." What about the god NERGAL of Cuth? We are informed by McClintock and Strong’s Encyclopedia that the name signifies "the great man," "the great hero" or "the god of the chase," i.e., the Hunter. In other words, as the Encyclopedia further points out, he was a form of NIMROD. This Hunter-god was honored by the people of CUTH for Arabian tradition tells us that CUTH was the special city of NIMROD (vol. VI, p. 950). The next god was that of Hamath: ASHIMA. Jones shows us that he was the great pagan god of propitiation, i.e., the god who bore the guilt of his worshippers (p. 42). This god was the pagan REDEEMER -- the OSIRIS of Egyptian fame or the dying NIMROD. The Avites worshipped NIBHAZ (masc. -- the god of HADES) and TAR-TAK, "the mother of the gods". This last-mentioned goddess was supposedly the mother of the Assyrian race, or, as Jones says, she was SEMIRAMIS (see p. 354). The fifth Babylonian tribe worshiped pre-eminently two gods. ADRAM-MELECH and ANAM-MELECH. The first was the "god of fire," the Sun or the Phoenician Baal (Jones, p. 14); the second was "the god of the flocks" or the Greek HERMES, the Good Shepherd (p. 32). (It is self-evident that these gods and goddesses were the major Babylonian deities, and at the same time, the very gods and goddesses which the Roman Catholic Church deifies today as Christ, Mary, etc.) Simon Magus grew up in this mixed-up society. The Samaritans called themselves the people of the True God, but religiously were practicing Babylonians. Simon himself was a priest of these people (the word "Magus" is the Chaldean/Persian word for "priest"). Thus, in the encounter of Peter with Simon Magus, we find the first real connection of true Christianity with the Chaldean priest who was prophesied to bring in its false counterpart. Next, we will see how Simon Magus managed to startle the Roman world with his plan to bring in one universal religion under the guise of Christianity. Simon Magus Begins UNIVERSAL Church History comes alive with the startling story of how Simon Magus -- branded a FALSE PROPHET by the book of Acts -- established HIS OWN UNIVERSAL church! SIMON MAGUS was a Babylonian priest. He was a part of the Babylonian community that had been living in the land of Northern Israel ever since the Northern Ten Tribes were carried away captive by the Assyrians. God tells us that these Samaritans, as they were called, were claiming to be the true people of God while at the same time practicing many heathen rites which came directly from Babylon (II Kings 17:41). This was the type of religious environment in which Simon Magus was born. This was the environment in which he commenced his own ministry and was finally proclaimed the "great one . . . the great power of God" -- that is, God Himself (Acts 8:9-10). He so swayed the whole of the Samaritan nation that all gave heed to him -- they did for a very long time (Verses 9-11). But when he saw the potential of Christianity, he endeavored to buy an apostleship in the Church. Peter rebuked him sternly. Simon Magus and HIS Universal Church Simon Magus, after his rejection by Peter, began to fashion his own "Christian" church -- a church of which HE was head -- a church designed to completely overthrow the True Church of God. His idea was to blend together Babylonian teaching with some of the teachings of Christ -- especially to take the name of Christ -- and thus create ONE UNIVERSAL CHURCH! But a church with Babylonianism as its basis. Harnack, a church historian, states that Simon Magus "proclaimed a doctrine in which the Jewish faith was strangely and grotesquely mixed with BABYLONIAN myths, together with some Greek additions. The mysterious worship . . . in consequence of the widened horizon and the deepening religious feeling, finally the wild SYNCRETISM [that is, blending together of religious beliefs], whose aim WAS A UNIVERSAL RELIGION, all contributed to gain adherents for Simon" (Vol. 1, p. 244). Simon can be classified among the major group of so-called Christians (and Simon called himself such), called by Harnack the: "decidedly anti-Jewish groups . . . . They advance much further in the criticism of the Old Testament and perceived the impossibility of saving it [that is, the Old Testament] for the Christian UNIVERSAL RELIGION. They rather connected this [universal] religion with the cultus-wisdom of BABYLON and SYRIA" (VoI. 1, p. 246). With this background, we can understand why Peter so strongly rebuked Simon for his Babylonian ideas. Peter prophesied that this was the man who was to be the "gall of bitterness, and bond of iniquity" to the True Church. Simon’s attitude was corrupt in the extreme! The Bible shows he had been working through demons. And yet, he finally called himself a "Christian." Dr. McGiffert, speaking of Simon Magus, says: "His effort to rival and surpass Jesus very likely began after his contact with the Christians that Luke records. His religious system was apparently a SYNCRETISM of Jewish and Oriental elements" (Hasting’s Dictionary of the Apostolic Church, Vol. 2, p. 497). Simon’s Later Activities To read all the material that the writers of the second to the fourth centuries wrote about this man and his followers, would literally take days. He has been called by many of them "the father of HERESY," and, apart from the Bible, the amount of literature devoted to him and his activities, shows he lived up to that title. Some of the following authorities to be brought forth were eyewitnesses of many of the things mentioned, and they were writing to others who were likewise eyewitnesses. Much of the testimony to be mentioned is conclusive and cannot be set aside. With this evidence of Simon’s activities after his rejection by Peter, we will clearly be able to see why Luke thought it most important to tell the real condition of this man, proving that he was in actuality NEVER an Apostle of Christ. In this regard, notice the comment of Hasting’s Dictionary of the Apostolic Church, Vol. 2, p. 496: "But it need NOT be supposed that when Simon broke with the Christians HE RENOUNCED ALL HE HAD LEARNED. It is more probable that he carried some of the Christian ideas with him, and that he wove these into a system of his own. This system did contain some of the later germs of Gnosticism. Thus he became a leader of a retro-grade sect, perhaps nominally Christian, and certainly using some of the Christian terminology but in reality anti-Christian and exalting Simon himself to the central position which Christianity was giving to Jesus Christ" (Ibid). Simon Magus Blends Paganism With Christianity! What Simon did was to bring the Babylonian and Greek religious beliefs into a form of Christianity in order to bring about, as Harnack says, a UNIVERSAL [Catholic] religion. "The amalgam of paganism and Christianity which was characteristic of Gnosticism, and which was especially obvious in the Simonian system, is readily explicable in the teaching of Simon Magus, who, according to the story in Acts, was brought into intimate contact with Christian teaching without becoming a genuine member" (Ibid., p. 496). We further find in Schaff’s History of the Church a reference to this Simon Magus. He says: "The author, or first representative of this baptized HEATHENISM, according to the uniform testimony of Christian antiquity, is Simon Magus, who unquestionably adulterated Christianity with pagan ideas and practices, and gave himself out, in a pantheistic style for an emanation of God" Apostolic Christianity, ol. 2, p. 566). Simon only used the name of Christianity to bring about his own desired ends. The Dictionary of Religion and Ethics says that Simon was "a false Messiah, who practiced magical arts and subsequently attempted, by the aid and with the sanction of Christianity, to set up a rival UNIVERSAL [Catholic] RELIGION" (Vol. 11, p. 514). Again, what do the histories tell us Simon’s doctrines consisted of primarily? "Two independent traditions profess to preserve the teaching of Simon, the one betraying the influence of Alexandrian allegory, the other of Syrian and Babylonian religion" Dictionary of Religion and Ethics, Vol. 11, p. 516). It is no wonder that Luke hits hard at the infamy of Simon -- for Simon claimed to be a Christian -- even an Apostle -- and yet was preaching Babylonian paganism. HE WAS CALLING PAGANISM BY THE NAME OF CHRISTIANITY!....." full article here: http://www.reformation.org/simon...r_versus_simon_magus.html Justin Martyr [c. 100-165]: Chapter XXXV.—Heretics confirm the Catholics in the faith. And Trypho said, “I believe, however, that many of those who say that they confess Jesus, and are called Christians, eat meats offered to idols, and declare that they are by no means injured in consequence.” And I replied, “The fact that there are such men confessing themselves to be Christians, and admitting the crucified Jesus to be both Lord and Christ, yet not teaching His doctrines, but those of the spirits of error, causes us who are disciples of the true and pure doctrine of Jesus Christ, to be more faithful and stedfast in the hope announced by Him. For what things He predicted would take place in His name, these we do see being actually accomplished in our sight. For he said, ‘Many shall come in My name, clothed outwardly in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.’ ” 20352035 Matt. vii. 15. And, ‘There shall be schisms and heresies.’20362036 1 Cor. xi. 19. And, ‘Beware of false prophets, who shall come to you clothed outwardly in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.’20372037 Matt. vii. 15. And, ‘Many false Christs and false apostles shall arise, and shall deceive many of the faithful.’20382038 Matt. xxiv. 11. There are, therefore, and there were many, my friends, who, coming forward in the name of Jesus, taught both to speak and act impious and blasphemous things; and these are called by us after the name of the men from whom each doctrine and opinion had its origin. (For some in one way, others in another, teach to blaspheme the Maker of all things, and Christ, who was foretold by Him as coming, and the God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, with whom we have nothing in common, since we know them to be atheists, impious, unrighteous, and sinful, and confessors of Jesus in name only, instead of worshippers of Him. Yet they style themselves Christians, just as certain among the Gentiles inscribe the name of God upon the works of their own hands, and partake in nefarious and impious rites.) Some are called Marcians, and some Valentinians, and some Basilidians, and some Saturnilians, and others by other names; each called after the originator of the individual opinion, just as each one of those who consider themselves philosophers, as I said before, thinks he must bear the name of the philosophy which he follows, from the name of the father of the particular doctrine. So that, in consequence of these events, we know that Jesus foreknew what would happen after Him, as well as in consequence of many other events which He foretold would befall those who believed on and confessed Him, the Christ. For all that we suffer, even when killed by friends, He foretold would take place; so that it is manifest no word or act of His can be found fault with. Wherefore we pray for you and for all other men who hate us; in order that you, having repented along with us, may not blaspheme Him who, by His works, by the mighty deeds even now wrought through His name, by the words He taught, by the prophecies announced concerning Him, is the blameless, and in all things irreproachable, Christ Jesus; but, believing on Him, may be saved in His second glorious advent, and may not be condemned to fire by Him.”...." http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.viii.iv.xxxv.html More from Justin: Chapter LXIX.—The devil, since he emulates the truth, has invented fables about Bacchus, Hercules, and Æsculapius. Chapter LXX.—So also the mysteries of Mithras are distorted from the prophecies of Daniel and Isaiah. Chapter LXXI.— The Jews reject the interpretation of the LXX., from which, moreover, they have taken away some passages. Chapter LXXII.—Passages have been removed by the Jews from Esdras and Jeremiah. Chapter LXXIII.— [The words] “From the wood” have been cut out of Ps. xcvi..... "...as long as there..remain active enemies of the Christian church, we may hope to become Master of the World...the future Jewish King will never reign in the world before Christianity is overthrown - B'nai B'rith speech http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/luther.htm / http://bible.cc/psalms/83-4.htm
I don't belong to one, because I haven't found one yet that preaches the gospel according to the Bible.
"...as long as there..remain active enemies of the Christian church, we may hope to become Master of the World...the future Jewish King will never reign in the world before Christianity is overthrown - B'nai B'rith speech http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/luther.htm / http://bible.cc/psalms/83-4.htm
That's all I was saying to you. It's one thing to pray for a bad person to see the light and ask for God's forgiveness of his bad actions but it's quite another thing entirely to pray for a nice non-Christian person to see the light about Jesus Christ and embrace Christianity. I often find myself hoping someone "good" in my eyes, who has heard of Christ and rejected Him, can still be saved, but according to the Bible, there are none "good". If one could be saved by being "nice", there would have been no reason for God to come down in the flesh and bear the torture of the cross for us, would there? If one could be saved by being "nice", then Christ was tortured and died in vain. My hope Christ would reveal Himself to this nice young gentlemen was based on the scripture I gave you: KJV He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. It would be "nicer" of me to say he will be saved because he is "nice", but it is not scriptural. I am sorry you don't like my style of speaking. Did you ever read the prophets, or John the Baptist, or the disciples, or Jesus Himself? 13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. 14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation. 15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. 16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor! 17 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold? 18 And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty. 19 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift? 20 Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon. 21 And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein. 22 And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon. 23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. 24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel. 25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. 26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also. 27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness. 28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity. 29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous, 30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. 31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. 32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. 33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? 34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: 35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. 36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. 37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. 39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord. I'd rather be a violin or a flute, but my Master made me a trumpet. If that offends anyone: sorry.
"...as long as there..remain active enemies of the Christian church, we may hope to become Master of the World...the future Jewish King will never reign in the world before Christianity is overthrown - B'nai B'rith speech http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/luther.htm / http://bible.cc/psalms/83-4.htm
If you wish to do your trumpeting in an empty theater, by all means, be my guest. Religion is a difficult show to sell no matter what instrument is featured. I'm just sayin'...
What was that? I don't really know all that much about the HISTORY of the church, but it looks like "mainstream Christianity" [the roots of today's "Christian" Zionism?] started in the days of the apostles. Although you probably won't want to wade through it, I thought I'd post some of it as a reference for myself and any others who might be interested. OK, let's get something straight before we go any further. I am not a Christian. I have studied as much as I intend to study on the matter and I came to the conclusion that it is bullshit, for reasons I have already stated. However, as far as the history of Christianity goes, what you posted about the two Simon's is kook stuff that is laughed at by all modern day mainstream theological scholars. There is ZERO proof that it is true. It's all conjecture and made up bullshit. If you want to believe all of the gobbledygook is true, that is fine. I do not. If there were proof, it would be taught in modern day religion classes in the Universities throughout the world. It's not. Mainstream Christianity prior to 451 consisted of what is now the Orthodox, Oriental, and Catholic Churches. And don't give me that "it's all a conspiracy" bullshit. There are thousands of atheist's and agnostics teaching religion classes throughout the world's university system's and if there was an INKLING of proof to that BS, they'd be on it like stink on shit in order to debunk Christianity. As for your cutting and pasting quotes from Justin Martyr, you appear to be taking a paragraph out of context with the overall theme of the whole dialogs, because from what I can tell, the Dialogue with Trypho "undertakes to show that Christianity is the new law for all men, and to prove from Scripture that Jesus is the Christ. The concluding section (cix.-cxlii.) demonstrates that the Christians are the true people of God." Once again, if Justin were trying to say that all of the Churches mentioned in the Bible were unchristian, pagan, Babylonian, or whatever it is you are trying to claim, that would be taught. Quit trying to blow smoke up my ass.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976 The purpose of the legal system is to protect the elites from the wrath of those they plunder.- Elliott Jackalope "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat
Then I guess Jesus was a liar because he is the one said "I am with you always." He didn't say, I am with you until the Apostles die off and then I'm gonna split for a couple of thousand years and let you figure things out on your own. He is the one who established a Church in the first place, and no a church Isn't "wherever two people meet in my name," for if it were then Paul would not have wrote to Timothy what the leadership of the Church should look like and how to go about picking that leadership.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976 The purpose of the legal system is to protect the elites from the wrath of those they plunder.- Elliott Jackalope "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat
We were discussing the American indians and jungle natives(say the ones who led good lives as you mentioned in your example) who never knew of Christianity-pre 1600 days. Since they were not "saved" would they be subject to a guaranteed ride to hell because they never knew about Jesus and Christ. According to her, yes. This when I started to question the church. Fortunately God's judgment is not subject to the Vatican's rules of engagement in the Hereafter.
Greed is one of the seven deadly sins. We're all greedy to one degree or another... I think I would have gambled away a '63 Vette for a shot at a wad of millions.
I still don't know what's "conservative" about Hitchens. Any ideological view he holds is purely self-serving.
I don't care for those claiming brilliance all the fucking time yet refuse to offer one iota of supporting evidence ! Brilliance and Arrogance do not share the same address. Couldn't have said it any better... Hitchens is his own "god."
Or rather it's already been suggested that it's all about Hitchens' own self-deification.
That too. There are numerous justifiable reason to despise this gubmint. I'm talking about their dancing in the blood of women, children and dead American soldiers for their own blood lusts. They go way beyond wanting to "protect America." They thrive and receive enjoyment in the death of others, even if those others are American soldiers. They just can't get enough. Wait a minute - exactly WHO is "dancing in the blood of women, children and dead American soldiers for their own blood lusts"??
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#48. To: Sam Houston (#3)
Hitchens, the Southern Baptists and their ilk are ALL that's left of the "movement," basically. There is no way for so-called "conservatives" or "neos" such as yourself ever to win elections without them.
#49. To: sizzlerguy (#47)
#50. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#5)
That's his problem.
#51. To: Liberator (#49)
#52. To: PaulCJ (#12)
I have a question. How does importing tens of millions of muslims into Europe benefit the Vatican?
#53. To: Itistoolate (#32)
What I can't figure out is the 'close relationship' of Jews and Christians.
#54. To: sizzlerguy (#51)
#55. To: belmontconservative (#1)
I was raised a Catholic but have not gone to church regulary the last 2-3 years.
#56. To: Hayek Fan (#15)
What I find funny is how a confessed liberal is admired by conservatives today all because he is pro-war. Forget the fact that prior to baby Bush he was considered an enemy because of his big government beliefs. I never would have thought I'd see the day when a life long liberal would be able to use his popularity among the supposed conservative movement to "attempt to divorce conservatism from religious teachings." If he had tried this 20 years ago, he would be pissing in the wind and no one would read his book or give him any publicity, yet now he's on Fox. LOL! We are living in Bizarro world.
#57. To: Hayek Fan (#15)
It is no wonder people turn their backs on this sham called Christianity. Look at those who claim to be Christians today. The majority are blood dancing sociopaths filled with hate and loathing for their fellow man. Just read the comments of the proclaimed Christians on TOS2. Sweetjustice, Bob Celeste, David Ben Ariel, JoeSnuffy, rifle22. These people can't get enough of other people's blood. They want to kill, kill, kill everyone and everything.
#58. To: Liberator (#54)
Christ
#59. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#16)
The "NWO" may hope to join the world into One under the Pope:
#60. To: sizzlerguy (#58)
Amen, and if "Christ" is a fair and openminded guy, he'll be fair with all of us, when that time comes, who've led good, honest, and clean lives.
#61. To: scrapper2, AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#23)
What I'm suggesting to you is that even to Christians, never mind to those of other faiths, it is very off-putting to hear that sort of holier than thou, haughty, smugness as in... we're in the cat bird's seat, we've got the inside track to enjoying eternal life, and we're so generous we're praying that folks of other faiths get on board and see things the way Christians do because that's only route to salvation.
#62. To: Liberator (#60)
destination.
#63. To: Hayek Fan (#24)
I reject the idea that any "God" would allow a man/woman to spend their entire lives devoutly living their faith only to damn them to eternal hell because they didn't guess correctly. Yet guess is what one must do.
#64. To: sizzlerguy (#62)
That's just it, our "destination" after we die is a never ending "mystery," like a "saga."
#65. To: Liberator (#64)
trading that '63 Vette you'd already "won" for a tiny gift-wrapped box, hoping for a wad of billion dollar bills.
#66. To: all (#0)
Let me get this straight.
#67. To: Liberator (#44)
(Edited)
Hitchens says we're an accident - and even if we aren't, God's a Liar.
#68. To: Brian S (#0)
(Edited)
they teach that sins can be forgiven by throwing them on to a scapegoat -- a positively wicked doctrine
#69. To: Brian S (#0)
Barack H. Obama . => U.S. DOOMED ...... J. A. Carter, (#3 Son)
#70. To: Liberator (#57)
It is no wonder people turn their backs on this sham called Christianity. Look at those who claim to be Christians today. The majority are blood dancing sociopaths filled with hate and loathing for their fellow man. Just read the comments of the proclaimed Christians on TOS2. Sweetjustice, Bob Celeste, David Ben Ariel, JoeSnuffy, rifle22. These people can't get enough of other people's blood. They want to kill, kill, kill everyone and everything.
#71. To: Sam Houston, Hayek Fan, Brian (#17)
Very well stated.
Barack H. Obama . => U.S. DOOMED ...... J. A. Carter, (#3 Son)
#72. To: sizzlerguy, liberator, hayek fan (#58)
Amen, and if "Christ" is a fair and openminded guy, he'll be fair with all of us, when that time comes, who've led good, honest, and clean lives.
#73. To: belmontconservative (#72)
#74. To: sizzlerguy (#73)
This is obviously a "deep" subject which has been on the minds of men for centuries.
#75. To: Hayek Fan (#30)
I have no idea who Jonathon Williams is or why I should give his writings any merit. Just because something is written on paper or in a book does not make it true.
British Israel World Federation Movement. | Page 1 | Page 2 | Page 3 | ... Steps Toward British Union, a World State, and International Strife ... http://www.jordanmaxwell.com/art...british-israel/index.html
In the late 1930s, the British Israel World Federation Movement's Destiny ... http://www.jordanmaxwell.com/art...rael/british-israel-2.htm
#76. To: Hayek Fan (#35)
So which church is the "true" church? Don't tell me. The one you belong to right?
#77. To: scrapper2 (#33)
I wanted you to understand is that your qualifying phrase "I pray Jesus reveals Himself to him" after praising your visitor's good human qualities was off-putting to me because you seemed to put a higher value on your Christian religious beliefs above his religious beliefs - in that you felt he was so nice BUT for the fact that he still needed to recognize Christ.
#78. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#77)
I'd rather be a violin or a flute, but my Master made me a trumpet.
#79. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#75)
mainstream Christianity
#80. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#76)
I don't belong to one, because I haven't found one yet that preaches the gospel according to the Bible.
#81. To: belmontconservative, sizzlerguy, hayek fan (#72)
I remember discussing this subject with a nun back in my Catholic grade school days.
#82. To: sizzlerguy (#65)
That scenerio would fall into the "greed" catagory.
#83. To: Critter (#66)
Who gives two shits what this rum soaked commie turned conservative writer thinks about anything?
#84. To: noone222 (#67)
Hitchens is a self-promoting, self-inflated, flagellance sniffing suck ass that scream out in arrogance about a God he doesn't care to understand ... mostly because Hitchens is his own god.
#85. To: scrapper2, noone222 (#68)
There's no denying that Hitchens wants to put a stake through the heart of Christian theology because he believes Christianity is the reason his tribe was persecuted.
#86. To: Hayek Fan (#70)
I disagree that this has anything to do with it. The anger people feel towards their government is a righteous anger born out of a government that is acting outside of its legal and moral boundaries (regardless of what the USSC says). The government knows it is wrong and most of the people know that it is wrong.
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