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Title: WHY CANADIANS ARE LAUGHING AT US
Source:
news.yahoo.com
URL Source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ucrr/200910 ... rr/whycanadiansarelaughingatus
Published: Oct 30, 2009
Author: Richard Reeves
Post Date: 2009-10-30 20:57:26 by Destro
Keywords: Canada
Views: 755
Comments: 63
WHY CANADIANS ARE LAUGHING AT US By Richard Reeves Richard Reeves AUSTIN, Texas -- A guy walks up to you in a bar here and asks, "Are you a Republican, conservative or independent?" You can't tell if he's kidding. After all, this is the most liberal place in the state. It's also where I first heard about Shona Holmes, the Canadian lady. Holmes, a 45-year-old citizen of a place called Waterdown in Ontario, has become the Joan of Arc of the battle against health care reform in the United States. As she tells it, OHIP, the acronym for the "free" (taxes pay for it) Canadian health care system, sentenced her to burn at the stake by putting her on a waiting list for analysis and treatment of what she calls a "brain tumor." Actually, it was a benign cyst near the brain. The technical name is Rathke's cleft cyst, a fluid-filled sac that grows near the pituitary gland. It can be painful and affect vision, but it is not life-threatening. A group called Patients United Now -- "people just like you," says its Web site -- is sponsoring television commercials featuring Shona Holmes in all 50 states. (I don't know if he is just like me, but an industrialist named David Koch is the principal financier of the Holmes campaign.) She is traveling our country making speeches and television appearances comparing the Canadian system to the Inquisition, saying she would have died waiting to see a doctor in her country. Instead, she says, she mortgaged her house, borrowed from neighbors, crossed the border and had the cyst removed at the Mayo Clinic in Arizona. Cost: $95,000. She seems to be, right now, the most hated woman in Canada. Newspapers are defending OHIP; bloggers are saying if she doesn't like Canada she can (and should) get out. A few voices are calling for Holmes to be deported. The Ottawa Citizen called her "disgusting." Canadians apparently love their system. A columnist for the Calgary Sun, Stephen Lautens, attended a conservative forum in Florida and sent back this report: "When hearing the horrors of the Canadian health-care system being described last weekend, all I could do was wince. ... 'Would (you) like to speak to a real, live Canadian about our health care,' I asked (two ladies in a bar)? "'Can you pick your own doctor?' was the first question. 'Because we hear the government assigns you a doctor in Canada.' "You indeed pick your own doctor, I assured them. ... It was also not true, I said, that it takes months to see your doctor. Mine complains she doesn't see me enough. There are gaps in our system, I confessed, where there are unacceptable wait lists for some kinds of surgery -- hips and knees and other things in demand. "'What's your health-care premium?' they wanted to know. They quoted theirs as being a couple thousand dollars a month. Their jaws dropped when I told them there really isn't one and everyone is covered from birth. "At this point, a small crowd had gathered around me at the bar to hear the Canadian tell his magical tale of health-care coverage. I told the story of breaking my shoulder in a fall, having one of the best shoulder specialists in Canada put it back together, a few days at the hospital and nine months of physiotherapy. The cost? "Thirty-five dollars, because the sling I went home in wasn't covered." The "disgusting" thing from an American perspective is the low level of the health-care debate. Or is it the gullibility of millions of Americans? The Senate Republican leader, Mitch McConnell, along with Fox News, has used the Shona Holmes story to attack health-care reform. True or not, it is interesting stuff, except for one thing: The American reforms being discussed are not at all like the Canadian single-payer system. So, Canadians, with longer, healthier lives, are yelling at Shona Holmes and laughing at us.
Poster Comment: This kind of false campaign of half truths has become the standard propaganda tactic for the right these last 8 years. It counts on those these campaigns are aimed at buying the lie by these oligarchs like the Koch family hook, line and sinker. Another example is to make up horror stories of the UK's socialist health care system which in reality - as bad as it is - the worst in Europe - still produces healthier population than the American system and costs less. Read it here: http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/42717.php The British Are Much Healthier Than The Americans Article Date: 03 May 2006 - 8:00 PDT A large study, which looked at the health of middle class, middle-aged, white residents in both the USA and Britain found that the British enjoy much better health than their American counterparts. Even though the USA has a much higher income per capita than the UK, about 25% higher, the British are far ahead when it comes to the health of its residents. Americans also spend a great deal more on health care than the British do. The average expenditure per head per year on health in the UK is $2,164, while in the USA it stands at $5,274. You can read about this study in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA), May 3 Issue. ------------------ So I would like to know why the right wing falls for such disinfo campaigns by hidden sources like the Kochs? Read about the Koch family @ http://exiledonline.com/tea-bagger-closet-cases-then-now-jfk-faced-exact-same-accusations-as-obama/ Koch Family & The Tea Bagger Loonies 1961-2009: JFK Faced Exact Same Crazy Rightwing Billionaire Family As Obama
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#3. To: X-15 (#2)
I have no idea what you wrote.
"We have oil. We have Putin - all that Russians think they need." - Vladimir Dubin, senior researcher at the Moscow-based Levada Centre.
You hit the nail right on the head.
"We have oil. We have Putin - all that Russians think they need." - Vladimir Dubin, senior researcher at the Moscow-based Levada Centre.
http://exiledonline.com/town-hall-meeting-in-the-high-desert-a-civil-debate- among-murderous-retards/ As the meeting went on, it became clear that the crowd was composed of three distinct groups. The first, largest and dumbest was made up exclusively of racist hicks, who were convinced that any regulation was a secret attack on the Founding Fathers, the Constitution and the God-fearing Ways of White America. The second group, heavily overlapping with the first and probably just as big, was was made up of old people. They were pensioners and veterans who were opposed to government-run health care—the very health care plans they were on— because they feared their benefits would be cut. The third town haller type was stealthier and smarter. They didn’t ask questions or voice concerns, they made point-by-point policy demands lifted straight off the health insurance lobby, but wrapped in the bi-partisan rhetoric of astroturf organizations like FreedomWorks. But the evil corporate shills didn’t bother me as much as the old people with their old-person smells. There they were, barely moving and ignorant as all hell. They are part of “sun revolves around the moon” demographic, but they are not stupid, survival instinct-wise. The joke of this is that they’re all living on government healthcare plans—the very thing they had been mobilized to this auditorium to fight! But they were not ignorant or hypocritical. They were fighting to protect a limited resource. Consider these fun Baby Boomer facts: Right now, there are about 75 million of them. By 2020, there will be one baby boomer for every five Americans, yet they’ll account for half of all visits to physicians. As they age, they’ll siphon off more and more money from Medicare, spending more to keep themselves alive than they ever put into the system. The amount of healthcare that these offspring of the “greatest generation” will need is astounding. Right now, just as many Baby Boomers are beginning to retire, there are about 80,000 hip fractures a year. Ten years from now, that number will grow to 500,000. You can be sure that when the Baby Boomers are done with it, Medicare will be sucked dry with nothing left for us youngin’s. And they know it. They want to maximize socialism for themselves while they can, and leave none for the next generation. On some primitive level, the old people around me understood what I had not: the fight for healthcare reform is not just pitting the average American against giant health insurance vampires. It is also a fight between the young and the old, between the giant, aging Baby Boomer generation and the rest of us. They understand that we want to have some of what they have. But they are greedy, self-centered geriatric vampires and they do not want to share.
"We have oil. We have Putin - all that Russians think they need." - Vladimir Dubin, senior researcher at the Moscow-based Levada Centre.
Only cops can have handguns on Canuk land, and their health care is far better than the US. Their taxes are higher than ours, their medical effectiveness per cost is lower. They do not have massive Insurance companies that stand in between the patient and the provider to collect no value added rent to the medical process.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" Yes, hand guns are rarer in Canada but more people own rifles per capita than in America.
"We have oil. We have Putin - all that Russians think they need." - Vladimir Dubin, senior researcher at the Moscow-based Levada Centre.
If you count non taxes Americans pay like a health insurance bill, then the Canadian keeps more of their pay than the American. America has many hidden non tax expenses in their lives that in the end means heavily taxed Europeans, Canadians and Japanese keep more money than most Americans do and produce more civil populations. The USA jails more people than Red China.
"We have oil. We have Putin - all that Russians think they need." - Vladimir Dubin, senior researcher at the Moscow-based Levada Centre.
We are going to be, in a little way, similar to the situation Europe was in about 1370, after 40% of the population was wiped out by the plagues. The church finally had to sell land and the feudal system started to collapse. No one to till the fields, a bunch of old folks, I am 54 and in great shape, but that will change, and one day I will be wanting to have a young person shovel the snow.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" We have Palin, and Nancy too.. Be sure to have your barf bag handy.
Less young means their labor is worth more - or should be under Adam Smith's theory. So why are wages lower now than before or stagnant? I see manipulations by oligarchs in the so called free market? Import Mexicans to keep mowing the lawn costs down? I remember in the 90s before we had enough Mexicans to fill in the jobs McDonalds and fast food joints were paying teenagers double to triple minimum wage to hire them. No suprise Bush looked the other way when he got to power (Gore would have looked the other way as well - no difference exists between parties once in power).
"We have oil. We have Putin - all that Russians think they need." - Vladimir Dubin, senior researcher at the Moscow-based Levada Centre.
My guess is that so many more older folks are being forced into the labor market. I just went to a brand new COSTCO store in Colorado Springs,opened yesterday, and was struck by how many, very old people they had working there. I see desperation in America and tremendous wealth in NYC.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" Predatory Colorado Springs casinos, who "prey" on the elderly have cleaned out those "very old people's" life savings.
I prefer the term "Honorary Americans." But it would be hardly inadvertent.
Stereotype. Before it's too late.
It's been a good rule of thumb anyways, for the past 50 years or so.
Stereotype. Before it's too late.
Right, and that's why everyone comes to the US for treatment. Because the US sucks worse than every other system on the planet. Get a clue, my Great Society Advocate friend.
COMRADE! Why are you not showing your Party affiliation and showing proper respect for Dear Leader? Put your Barackstika armband on RIGHT NOW!
Why do you continue to promote that falsehood? The methodology and the conclusions of the study you refer to [ which you never read in the original full text - you only read a summary by another website) has been disputed several times over in JAMA. The study used "self-reported" health - ie. highly subjective material - and another thing, certain segments of the American sampling tended to be more negatively inclined/predisposed/biased, because Americans are demanding and more likely to complain whereas Brits, especially poor Brits, are indoctrinated from birth into accepting mediocrity as being good as long as everyone is in the same boat. Good grief - at least quote a valid study and one that you actually read - to promote your socialized medicine schtick.
That is not a fact - that is truthiness - it feels like the truth but not backed by facts. It is delusions and fantadsies that the right wing have embraced.
"We have oil. We have Putin - all that Russians think they need." - Vladimir Dubin, senior researcher at the Moscow-based Levada Centre.
All your points are lies. They looked at data not feelings or perceptions. You can not refute with facts one item on that report. More analysis on the health report: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/05/0503_060503_healthier_2.html Johns Hopkins University's Starfield suggests another explanation. "In the U.S. we have a very specialty-oriented health system, and many studies have shown that, in general, countries [such as Britain] with stronger primary care and less emphasis on specialists do better," she said.
"We have oil. We have Putin - all that Russians think they need." - Vladimir Dubin, senior researcher at the Moscow-based Levada Centre.
You call these statistics and facts - which have 5 different source materials - "truthiness, delusions, fantasies that the right wing have embraced?" "...Notably, when former Italian prime minister Silvio Berlusconi needed heart surgery last year, he didn’t go to a French, Canadian, Cuban, or even Italian hospital, he went to the Cleveland Clinic in Ohio.27 Likewise, Canadian MP Belinda Stronach had surgery for her breast cancer at a California hospital.28 Berlusconi and Stronach were following in the footsteps of tens of thousands of patients from around the world who come to the United States for treatment every year.29 One U.S. hospital alone, the Mayo Clinic, treats roughly 7,200 foreigners every year. Johns Hopkins University Medical Center treats more than 6,000, and the Cleveland Clinic more than 5,000. One out of every three Canadian physicians sends a patient to the Unites States for treatment each year,30 and those patients along with the problem pregnancies. For example, Canadian government spend more than $1 billion annually on health care in this country.31 .... Citations: 27. “World Briefing: Berlusconi Has Heart Surgery in US,” New York Times, December 19, 2006. 28. “Stronach Went to US for Cancer Treatments: Report,” CTV, September 14, 2007, www.ctv.ca/servlet/Articl...ry/CTVNews/20070914/belin da_Stronach_070914/20070914. 29. Steve Findlay, “U.S. Hospitals Attracting Patients from Abroad,” USA Today, July 22, 1997. 30. The two principal reasons for sending a patient abroad were the lack of availability of services in Canada (40 percent) and the length of the wait for certain treatments (19 percent). Robert J. Blendon et al., “Physicians’ Perspectives on Caring for Patients in the United States, Canada, and West Germany,” New England Journal of Medicine 328, no. 14 (1993): 1011–16. 31. John Goodman, “Moore’s SiCKO Could Put Lives at Risk,” The Michael Moore Chronicles,National Center for Policy Analysis, 2007, sicko. ncpa.org/moores-sicko-could-put-lives-at-risk. 09/10/robin-hanson/cut-medicine-in-half/.
Rich people from all over the world can fly to the USA for expensive specialist surgery while the poor in America are crapped on. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/05/0503_060503_healthier_2.html Johns Hopkins University's Starfield suggests another explanation. "In the U.S. we have a very specialty-oriented health system, and many studies have shown that, in general, countries [such as Britain] with stronger primary care and less emphasis on specialists do better," she said.
"We have oil. We have Putin - all that Russians think they need." - Vladimir Dubin, senior researcher at the Moscow-based Levada Centre.
Either you are a liar and saying that as disinfo or you are not smart enough to understand what you read and still try and come off as an expert - I don't know which is a worse condition. The conditions were first self reported and then checked by laboratory tests. Nor was diet or dentistry a factor. http://www.slate.com/id/2141648/ Could the difference have been one of interpretation—do American and British men respectively exaggerate or underplay illness? To rule out this possible weakness of self-reporting, Marmot's team considered studies that examined lab test results, so they could objectively corroborate the reports of the patients in their own study. The team found that, in general, for both groups the level of self-reported illness and the laboratory findings closely matched. (For instance, in England, self-reporting of diabetes was 8 percent higher than diabetes confirmed by laboratory testing, while in the United States, the self- reported rate was 11 percent higher.) So, both self-reporting and lab results suggest the same thing: British men appear to be significantly less likely to suffer from chronic disease than similar Americans. There are many ways in which these results are not at all what one would expect. For instance, the United States spends a great deal more on health care than England does—2.4 times as much per capita. And other differences like the terrible state of British dentistry also ought to weigh in Americans' favor. It's long been suspected that dental and oral infections play a role in promoting heart disease and possibly stroke. Tooth loss can lead to poor nutrition and social isolation among the elderly, which increase the risk for illness and early death. So, how do we account for the apparent better health of Englishmen? This study shows that the answer doesn't relate to race or ethnicity. The researchers also showed that neither smoking (Brits and Americans smoke in about equal numbers) nor overeating (Americans do this more than Brits) nor heavy drinking (here the Brits have the edge) could account for the difference.
"We have oil. We have Putin - all that Russians think they need." - Vladimir Dubin, senior researcher at the Moscow-based Levada Centre.
Is it "rich people", do you think, who are referred to the US by 1 out of every 3 Canadian physicians each year? Is it "rich people", on whom the Canadian government spends more than $1 Billion annually getting health care in the USA?
You are a dolt of the highest order. You still have not bothered to go to the study itself. Btw, only one of the authors is an M.D., 2 are employed by a UK institute for "Fiscal Studies", and a 3rd is employed by the Rand Corp. Just sayin'.... www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=RAND_Corporation Here's what is stated in the MAIN OUTCOME MEASURE and CONCLUSION of the May 03/2006 study done by James Banks, PhD; Michael Marmot, M.D.; Zoe Oldfield, MSc; James P. Smith, PhD Main Outcome Measure: Self-reported prevalence rates of several chronic diseases related to diabetes and heart disease, adjusted for age and health behavior risk factors, were compared between the 2 countries and across education and income classes within each country. Conclusion Based on self-reported illnesses and biological markers of disease, US residents are much less healthy than their English counterparts and these differences exist at all points of the SES distribution. Postscript: there are a number of studies that dispute the validity of using "self-reported" health - do the PubMed search or Google thingie - I'm weary of playing games with a socialist groupie like yourself.
Ah! So now we know exactly where you are coming from. Give it all away. Never mind that progressive income taxes PREVENT the poor from ever getting out of their social class and rising up the chain. You just want to keep them in their place and feel good that you have "done something" to help them, even though your actions and desires will just keep them down. Good job, my Great Society friend. Next up, you'll be passing out armbands and wishing to regulate how often people can mow their lawns. How very Statist and Authoritarian of you. Why do you hate freedom so much?
COMRADE! Why are you not showing your Party affiliation and showing proper respect for Dear Leader? Put your Barackstika armband on RIGHT NOW!
You keep repeating that lie over when clearly the report states: So, both self-reporting and lab results suggest the same thing: British men appear to be significantly less likely to suffer from chronic disease than similar Americans. You have no response other than to denegrate the source - something the failed American right wing bots fall back to as a response.
"We have oil. We have Putin - all that Russians think they need." - Vladimir Dubin, senior researcher at the Moscow-based Levada Centre.
The USA's failed health model funnels its resources into overpriced specialties where the costs are more and less resources into lifestyle and prevention which this British study shows produces better overall results. So the British health model produces a healthier person that needs less specialist care while the American model produces a sicker person whi will need specialist care eventually. That is why the British system is cheaper than the American one. So yea, America is excellent if you need really expensive private care if you have the money but it screws over the vast majority. Your trumping the New Deal only highlights the right wing and left wing's failed ideological and economic thinking. I represent the German social market of the christian democrats which I have adopted for my own. You follow a false and failed god.
"We have oil. We have Putin - all that Russians think they need." - Vladimir Dubin, senior researcher at the Moscow-based Levada Centre.
So, both self-reporting and lab results suggest the same thing: British men appear to be significantly less likely to suffer from chronic disease than similar Americans. You have no response other than to denegrate the source - something the failed American right wing bots fall back to as a response. You really are so thick I can't believe I'm actually trying to have an adult reasoned conversation with you about a report that purports to be scientifically sound but uses "self-reported health" as its "MAIN Outcome Measure" to reach sweeping conclusions in comparing the health of a sampling of people in 2 different nations. And for your information, lab test markers do not = disease. If you can't open your mind to what I point out, here's something from the Am. J. Epidemiol. Salomon et al. 170 (3): 343 that discusses the inherent flaws and anomalies of using self-health reporting in comparative health studies. aje.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/170/3/343 "Are Americans Feeling Less Healthy? The Puzzle of Trends in Self-rated Health"
If you think Government can make you rich and take care of all your needs, it is not I who worship a false idol. Government creates nothing. All it can do is take from one person and redirect (less the graft it keeps for itself) to another. Show me how merely shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic makes everyone better off and you'll have a point. Until then, keep worshiping Mammon and the State, your chosen False Idols.
COMRADE! Why are you not showing your Party affiliation and showing proper respect for Dear Leader? Put your Barackstika armband on RIGHT NOW!
The survey uses BOTH the self reported - and then they corroborated that with laboratory testing. How can you say lab tests don't confirm diabetes, etc? You just made that crap up because this survey threatens your talking points and you are grabbing at straws. "We have oil. We have Putin - all that Russians think they need." - Vladimir Dubin, senior researcher at the Moscow-based Levada Centre.
What I am doing is to disprove the manipulations of the facts from special interest media operations that get filtered down to the people who buy it hook line and sinker becsause it conforms to their ideological world view. And I don't know where you have been these laft few months but the private sector died a wimpering death through its own stupidity.
"We have oil. We have Putin - all that Russians think they need." - Vladimir Dubin, senior researcher at the Moscow-based Levada Centre.
Then it should be left to die. I don't know where you've been all your life, but we used to call what is going on, and what you support -- fascism. Or at least Mussolini called it that. But you seem to think he was on to something good. I don't.
COMRADE! Why are you not showing your Party affiliation and showing proper respect for Dear Leader? Put your Barackstika armband on RIGHT NOW!
In post WW2 Europe it is called the social market and it was responsible for the miracle of the rebirth of Europe. http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,890558,00.html EUROPE'S CHRISTIAN DEMOCRATS Looking out over devastated Europe at war's end in 1945 the journalists of the world—plain reporters and exalted pundits—considered the future and, to a man, came to the same conclusion: Europe would go left and socialist. The right, dishonored by the Petains and Papens, and by its devotion to 19 century capitalism, was doomed. The center, caught between the stridencies of right & left, and forced to choose, would have to go left. Communists and Socialists had made a name in the undergrounds and concentration camps. And in the end, Socialism, the wave of the future, would triumph, as it had in Scandinavia long before, and in Britain only recently. The experts were wrong. Instead, postwar Europe's dominant force turned out to be Christian Democracy. Today, Christian Democrats govern or share heavily in the governing of every war-torn country of Western Europe; most of their Premiers and all of their foreign ministers (except The Netherlands') are Christian Democrats. All are disciples of European unity, all share an overall philosophy, all—perhaps by political accident—are Roman Catholics. When Italy's De Gasperi, West Germany's Adenauer and France's Bidault sit down to negotiate a treaty or discuss the future, they draw from a common religious inspiration that sees Europe reunited as it was before Europe burst asunder in post- Reformation strife. They share, too, the paradox of having come to power frankly religious men, in a Europe heavily influenced since the Age of Enlightenment by secularistic and often anti-religious political doctrine. In such a scene, the Christian Democrats have learned not to accent their sectarian differences, but to stress what they have in common. What is their credo? Fundamentally, it is the common heritage of Western civilization, a Judeo-Christian heritage with which men of all faiths may agree. Their basic philosophical faith may be generally stated as a belief in 1) the fatherhood of God, 2) the brotherhood of man, 3) the essential dignity of man, and 4) the right of the individual to hold and administer private property, subject to his responsibilities to his fellowmen. Christian Democracy began as a Christian Socialism and gradually moved towards center and right. Originally, its intention was to escape the bleak godlessness of both left and right, while avoiding the charge of church domination, particularly domination by the Vatican. Trying to oppose materialism, while meeting it on its own good ground of material welfare for all, involves difficulties. "The Christian is a citizen of two worlds," says Catholic Philosopher Heinrich Rommen, "the City of God and the City of Man. He is destined for the former, but he must live and work for his salvation in the latter." From a deep and common tap root, the Christian Democrats of Europe branch out in a variety of directions.
"We have oil. We have Putin - all that Russians think they need." - Vladimir Dubin, senior researcher at the Moscow-based Levada Centre.
You're a closet catholic aren't you...
Not to mention the rebirth of the "thought police" in Germany, France, England, etc., ... As well the wonderful Hellthcare System where you can have any care the Pharmaceutical Companies allow. Isn't that special? It has given us the wondrous light of turned over and burning cars in gay Paris'. Not to forget the arrest, imprisonment in solitary, and deportation of Ernst Zundel for believing things that are not approved by der State. Aw yes, the wonders of Europe. Tell me more Grunt Cakes.
"An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you know and what you don't. ~ Anatole France
Better that than the murder rate in DC. America land of the free? We jail more people than Europe or Red China does. Eeven if you just count white people jailed leaving out the blacks and minorities we jail more whites than Europe does amongst her own population. So where really is this mythical land of the free you speak of?
"We have oil. We have Putin - all that Russians think they need." - Vladimir Dubin, senior researcher at the Moscow-based Levada Centre.
So where really is this mythical land of the free you speak of? it's like you have memory loss or can't stop playing the same broken track over and over. euro-Kommie-EU-trash like you, the ones that sold out to Globalist Jew World Socialist/Kommunist/Fascist Order $banskters, got hold of America and slowly gutted everything. maybe you're just another eurotwinkie fascist, eh ?
Why right next to the delightful Socialist Rezpublik of Europe of course. However, we still have the freedom of speech to say things that would get you jailed in wonderful Europeski. There is something to be said for that. And many of our people, not all of course, have the wit to realize that "free" Hellthcare means State und Pharmaceutical Combine Approved® unlimited access to Big Pharma products and the death of Alternative Medicine.
"An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you know and what you don't. ~ Anatole France
You forgot the medical lobby ie Kaiser etc., with the motto of better health through chemical use. Somebody has to prescribe all this junk.
Oh, yes - good ol' Kaiser - the prototype for Socialized Hellthcare. I hear they got into trouble recently for over-prescribing anti-depressants for just about everything thing from acne to hang-nails. Of course my position of the so-called anti-depressants, and the total lack of any science behind their use, is known. However, Kaiser is sort of like the "Yugo" of Hellthcare.
"An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you know and what you don't. ~ Anatole France
If you call chronic structural unemployment, choking regulations, ethnic tensions, "no go zones" in major European cities, and Brussels dictating to the Scots that kilts are "women's clothing" a rebirth, and think that is a Renaissance, you're deluded.
COMRADE! Why are you not showing your Party affiliation and showing proper respect for Dear Leader? Put your Barackstika armband on RIGHT NOW!
Yes Your Honor this man has uh, errr, ah, "delusions".
"An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you know and what you don't. ~ Anatole France
COMRADE! Why are you not showing your Party affiliation and showing proper respect for Dear Leader? Put your Barackstika armband on RIGHT NOW!
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#4. To: Sam Houston (#1)
That's one of the main reasons any Canadian-style "social safety net" programs are unacceptable. Too many "FAKE Americans" would inadvertently benefit.
#5. To: Sam Houston (#1)
America is now 35 percent non-white. These are not thought of, to paraphrase Sarah Palin, as "REAL Americans" by the Limbaugh/Hannity crowd.
#6. To: Destro (#3)
#7. To: tom007 (#6)
#8. To: tom007 (#6)
Their taxes are higher than ours,
#9. To: Destro (#5)
On some primitive level, the old people around me understood what I had not: the fight for healthcare reform is not just pitting the average American against giant health insurance vampires. It is also a fight between the young and the old, between the giant, aging Baby Boomer generation and the rest of us. They understand that we want to have some of what they have. But they are greedy, self-centered geriatric vampires and they do not want to share.
#10. To: Destro (#8)
We have oil, we have Putin...
#11. To: tom007 (#9)
(Edited)
No one to till the fields, a bunch of old folks, I am 54 and in great shape, but that will change, and one day I will be wanting to have a young person shovel the snow.
#12. To: Destro (#11)
Less young means their labor is worth more - or should be under Adam Smith's theory. So why are wages lower now than before or stagnant? I se
#13. To: tom007 (#12)
was struck by how many, very old people they had working there.
#14. To: Sam Houston (#1)
Too many "FAKE Americans" would inadvertently benefit.
#15. To: Destro (#5)
The first, largest and dumbest was made up exclusively of racist hicks, who were convinced that any regulation was a secret attack on the Founding Fathers, the Constitution and the God-fearing Ways of White America.
#16. To: Destro (#0)
This kind of false campaign of half truths has become the standard propaganda tactic for the right these last 8 years.
#17. To: Destro (#0)
A large study, which looked at the health of middle class, middle-aged, white residents in both the USA and Britain found that the British enjoy much better health than their American counterparts.
#18. To: mirage (#16)
Right, and that's why everyone comes to the US for treatment. Because the US sucks worse than every other system on the planet.
#19. To: scrapper2 (#17)
(Edited)
#20. To: Destro, mirage, All (#18)
That is not a fact - that is truthiness - it feels like the truth but not backed by facts. It is delusions and fantadsies that the right wing have embraced.
#21. To: scrapper2, mirage (#20)
#22. To: scrapper2 (#17)
The study used "self-reported" health - ie. highly subjective material - and another thing, certain segments of the American sampling tended to be more negatively inclined/predisposed/biased, because Americans are demanding and more likely to complain whereas Brits, especially poor Brits, are indoctrinated from birth into accepting mediocrity as being good as long as everyone is in the same boat.
#23. To: Destro, mirage (#21)
#24. To: Destro, mirage (#22)
#25. To: Destro (#21)
Rich people from all over the world can fly to the USA for expensive specialist surgery while the poor in America are crapped on.
#26. To: scrapper2 (#24)
Conclusion Based on self-reported illnesses and biological markers of disease, US residents are much less healthy than their English counterparts and these differences exist at all points of the SES distribution.
#27. To: mirage (#25)
(Edited)
#28. To: Destro (#26)
You keep repeating that lie over when clearly the report states:
#29. To: Destro (#27)
You follow a false and failed god.
#30. To: scrapper2 (#28)
about a report that purports to be scientifically sound but uses "self-reported health" as its "MAIN Outcome Measure"
#31. To: mirage (#29)
#32. To: Destro (#31)
And I don't know where you have been these laft few months but the private sector died a wimpering death through its own stupidity.
#33. To: mirage (#32)
I don't know where you've been all your life, but we used to call what is going on, and what you support -- fascism. Or at least Mussolini called it that.
#34. To: destro (#33)
Welcome back to 4um, euro-wannabe-Kommie-trash...
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams 
#35. To: Destro (#33)
In post WW2 Europe it is called the social market and it was responsible for the miracle of the rebirth of Europe.
#36. To: Original_Intent (#35)
It has given us the wondrous light of turned over and burning cars in gay Paris'.
#37. To: destro (#36)
Better that than the murder rate in DC. America land of the free? We jail more people than Europe or Red China does. Eeven if you just count white people jailed leaving out the blacks and minorities we jail more whites than Europe does amongst her own population.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#38. To: Destro (#36)
So where really is this mythical land of the free you speak of?
#39. To: Original_Intent (#38)
And many of our people, not all of course, have the wit to realize that "free" Hellthcare means State und Pharmaceutical Combine Approved® unlimited access to Big Pharma products and the death of Alternative Medicine.
#40. To: mininggold (#39)
#41. To: Destro (#33)
In post WW2 Europe it is called the social market and it was responsible for the miracle of the rebirth of Europe.
#42. To: mirage, Destro (#41)
, and think that is a Renaissance, you're deluded.
#43. To: Original_Intent, Destro (#42)
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