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Title: WHY CANADIANS ARE LAUGHING AT US
Source: news.yahoo.com
URL Source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ucrr/200910 ... rr/whycanadiansarelaughingatus
Published: Oct 30, 2009
Author: Richard Reeves
Post Date: 2009-10-30 20:57:26 by Destro
Keywords: Canada
Views: 788
Comments: 63

WHY CANADIANS ARE LAUGHING AT US

By Richard Reeves Richard Reeves

AUSTIN, Texas -- A guy walks up to you in a bar here and asks, "Are you a Republican, conservative or independent?" You can't tell if he's kidding. After all, this is the most liberal place in the state. It's also where I first heard about Shona Holmes, the Canadian lady.

Holmes, a 45-year-old citizen of a place called Waterdown in Ontario, has become the Joan of Arc of the battle against health care reform in the United States. As she tells it, OHIP, the acronym for the "free" (taxes pay for it) Canadian health care system, sentenced her to burn at the stake by putting her on a waiting list for analysis and treatment of what she calls a "brain tumor." Actually, it was a benign cyst near the brain. The technical name is Rathke's cleft cyst, a fluid-filled sac that grows near the pituitary gland. It can be painful and affect vision, but it is not life-threatening.

A group called Patients United Now -- "people just like you," says its Web site -- is sponsoring television commercials featuring Shona Holmes in all 50 states. (I don't know if he is just like me, but an industrialist named David Koch is the principal financier of the Holmes campaign.) She is traveling our country making speeches and television appearances comparing the Canadian system to the Inquisition, saying she would have died waiting to see a doctor in her country. Instead, she says, she mortgaged her house, borrowed from neighbors, crossed the border and had the cyst removed at the Mayo Clinic in Arizona. Cost: $95,000.

She seems to be, right now, the most hated woman in Canada. Newspapers are defending OHIP; bloggers are saying if she doesn't like Canada she can (and should) get out. A few voices are calling for Holmes to be deported. The Ottawa Citizen called her "disgusting."

Canadians apparently love their system. A columnist for the Calgary Sun, Stephen Lautens, attended a conservative forum in Florida and sent back this report:

"When hearing the horrors of the Canadian health-care system being described last weekend, all I could do was wince. ... 'Would (you) like to speak to a real, live Canadian about our health care,' I asked (two ladies in a bar)?

"'Can you pick your own doctor?' was the first question. 'Because we hear the government assigns you a doctor in Canada.'

"You indeed pick your own doctor, I assured them. ... It was also not true, I said, that it takes months to see your doctor. Mine complains she doesn't see me enough. There are gaps in our system, I confessed, where there are unacceptable wait lists for some kinds of surgery -- hips and knees and other things in demand.

"'What's your health-care premium?' they wanted to know. They quoted theirs as being a couple thousand dollars a month. Their jaws dropped when I told them there really isn't one and everyone is covered from birth.

"At this point, a small crowd had gathered around me at the bar to hear the Canadian tell his magical tale of health-care coverage. I told the story of breaking my shoulder in a fall, having one of the best shoulder specialists in Canada put it back together, a few days at the hospital and nine months of physiotherapy. The cost?

"Thirty-five dollars, because the sling I went home in wasn't covered."

The "disgusting" thing from an American perspective is the low level of the health-care debate. Or is it the gullibility of millions of Americans? The Senate Republican leader, Mitch McConnell, along with Fox News, has used the Shona Holmes story to attack health-care reform. True or not, it is interesting stuff, except for one thing: The American reforms being discussed are not at all like the Canadian single-payer system.

So, Canadians, with longer, healthier lives, are yelling at Shona Holmes and laughing at us.


Poster Comment:

This kind of false campaign of half truths has become the standard propaganda tactic for the right these last 8 years. It counts on those these campaigns are aimed at buying the lie by these oligarchs like the Koch family hook, line and sinker.

Another example is to make up horror stories of the UK's socialist health care system which in reality - as bad as it is - the worst in Europe - still produces healthier population than the American system and costs less.

Read it here:

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/42717.php

The British Are Much Healthier Than The Americans

Article Date: 03 May 2006 - 8:00 PDT

A large study, which looked at the health of middle class, middle-aged, white residents in both the USA and Britain found that the British enjoy much better health than their American counterparts. Even though the USA has a much higher income per capita than the UK, about 25% higher, the British are far ahead when it comes to the health of its residents.

Americans also spend a great deal more on health care than the British do. The average expenditure per head per year on health in the UK is $2,164, while in the USA it stands at $5,274.

You can read about this study in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA), May 3 Issue.

------------------

So I would like to know why the right wing falls for such disinfo campaigns by hidden sources like the Kochs?

Read about the Koch family @ http://exiledonline.com/tea-bagger-closet-cases-then-now-jfk-faced-exact-same-accusations-as-obama/

Koch Family & The Tea Bagger Loonies 1961-2009: JFK Faced Exact Same Crazy Rightwing Billionaire Family As Obama

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 35.

#16. To: Destro (#0)

This kind of false campaign of half truths has become the standard propaganda tactic for the right these last 8 years.

Right, and that's why everyone comes to the US for treatment. Because the US sucks worse than every other system on the planet.

Get a clue, my Great Society Advocate friend.

mirage  posted on  2009-10-30   23:57:54 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: mirage (#16)

Right, and that's why everyone comes to the US for treatment. Because the US sucks worse than every other system on the planet.

That is not a fact - that is truthiness - it feels like the truth but not backed by facts. It is delusions and fantadsies that the right wing have embraced.

Destro  posted on  2009-10-31   11:54:52 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Destro, mirage, All (#18)

That is not a fact - that is truthiness - it feels like the truth but not backed by facts. It is delusions and fantadsies that the right wing have embraced.

You call these statistics and facts - which have 5 different source materials - "truthiness, delusions, fantasies that the right wing have embraced?"

"...Notably, when former Italian prime minister Silvio Berlusconi needed heart surgery last year, he didn’t go to a French, Canadian, Cuban, or even Italian hospital, he went to the Cleveland Clinic in Ohio.27 Likewise, Canadian MP Belinda Stronach had surgery for her breast cancer at a California hospital.28 Berlusconi and Stronach were following in the footsteps of tens of thousands of patients from around the world who come to the United States for treatment every year.29 One U.S. hospital alone, the Mayo Clinic, treats roughly 7,200 foreigners every year. Johns Hopkins University Medical Center treats more than 6,000, and the Cleveland Clinic more than 5,000. One out of every three Canadian physicians sends a patient to the Unites States for treatment each year,30 and those patients along with the problem pregnancies. For example, Canadian government spend more than $1 billion annually on health care in this country.31 ....

Citations:

27. “World Briefing: Berlusconi Has Heart Surgery in US,” New York Times, December 19, 2006.

28. “Stronach Went to US for Cancer Treatments: Report,” CTV, September 14, 2007, www.ctv.ca/servlet/Articl...ry/CTVNews/20070914/belin da_Stronach_070914/20070914.

29. Steve Findlay, “U.S. Hospitals Attracting Patients from Abroad,” USA Today, July 22, 1997.

30. The two principal reasons for sending a patient abroad were the lack of availability of services in Canada (40 percent) and the length of the wait for certain treatments (19 percent). Robert J. Blendon et al., “Physicians’ Perspectives on Caring for Patients in the United States, Canada, and West Germany,” New England Journal of Medicine 328, no. 14 (1993): 1011–16.

31. John Goodman, “Moore’s SiCKO Could Put Lives at Risk,” The Michael Moore Chronicles,National Center for Policy Analysis, 2007, sicko. ncpa.org/moores-sicko-could-put-lives-at-risk. 09/10/robin-hanson/cut-medicine-in-half/.

www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-613.pdf

scrapper2  posted on  2009-10-31   12:18:52 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: scrapper2, mirage (#20)

Rich people from all over the world can fly to the USA for expensive specialist surgery while the poor in America are crapped on.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/05/0503_060503_healthier_2.html

Johns Hopkins University's Starfield suggests another explanation.

"In the U.S. we have a very specialty-oriented health system, and many studies have shown that, in general, countries [such as Britain] with stronger primary care and less emphasis on specialists do better," she said.

Destro  posted on  2009-10-31   12:22:30 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: Destro (#21)

Rich people from all over the world can fly to the USA for expensive specialist surgery while the poor in America are crapped on.

Ah! So now we know exactly where you are coming from.

Give it all away. Never mind that progressive income taxes PREVENT the poor from ever getting out of their social class and rising up the chain.

You just want to keep them in their place and feel good that you have "done something" to help them, even though your actions and desires will just keep them down.

Good job, my Great Society friend. Next up, you'll be passing out armbands and wishing to regulate how often people can mow their lawns. How very Statist and Authoritarian of you.

Why do you hate freedom so much?

mirage  posted on  2009-10-31   14:44:16 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: mirage (#25) (Edited)

The USA's failed health model funnels its resources into overpriced specialties where the costs are more and less resources into lifestyle and prevention which this British study shows produces better overall results.

So the British health model produces a healthier person that needs less specialist care while the American model produces a sicker person whi will need specialist care eventually. That is why the British system is cheaper than the American one. So yea, America is excellent if you need really expensive private care if you have the money but it screws over the vast majority.

Your trumping the New Deal only highlights the right wing and left wing's failed ideological and economic thinking. I represent the German social market of the christian democrats which I have adopted for my own. You follow a false and failed god.

Destro  posted on  2009-10-31   16:41:24 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Destro (#27)

You follow a false and failed god.

If you think Government can make you rich and take care of all your needs, it is not I who worship a false idol.

Government creates nothing. All it can do is take from one person and redirect (less the graft it keeps for itself) to another.

Show me how merely shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic makes everyone better off and you'll have a point. Until then, keep worshiping Mammon and the State, your chosen False Idols.

mirage  posted on  2009-10-31   20:19:38 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: mirage (#29)

What I am doing is to disprove the manipulations of the facts from special interest media operations that get filtered down to the people who buy it hook line and sinker becsause it conforms to their ideological world view. And I don't know where you have been these laft few months but the private sector died a wimpering death through its own stupidity.

Destro  posted on  2009-10-31   20:41:51 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Destro (#31)

And I don't know where you have been these laft few months but the private sector died a wimpering death through its own stupidity.

Then it should be left to die.

I don't know where you've been all your life, but we used to call what is going on, and what you support -- fascism. Or at least Mussolini called it that.

But you seem to think he was on to something good. I don't.

mirage  posted on  2009-11-01   1:50:35 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: mirage (#32)

I don't know where you've been all your life, but we used to call what is going on, and what you support -- fascism. Or at least Mussolini called it that.

In post WW2 Europe it is called the social market and it was responsible for the miracle of the rebirth of Europe.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,890558,00.html

EUROPE'S CHRISTIAN DEMOCRATS

Looking out over devastated Europe at war's end in 1945 the journalists of the world—plain reporters and exalted pundits—considered the future and, to a man, came to the same conclusion: Europe would go left and socialist. The right, dishonored by the Petains and Papens, and by its devotion to 19 century capitalism, was doomed. The center, caught between the stridencies of right & left, and forced to choose, would have to go left. Communists and Socialists had made a name in the undergrounds and concentration camps. And in the end, Socialism, the wave of the future, would triumph, as it had in Scandinavia long before, and in Britain only recently.

The experts were wrong. Instead, postwar Europe's dominant force turned out to be Christian Democracy. Today, Christian Democrats govern or share heavily in the governing of every war-torn country of Western Europe; most of their Premiers and all of their foreign ministers (except The Netherlands') are Christian Democrats. All are disciples of European unity, all share an overall philosophy, all—perhaps by political accident—are Roman Catholics. When Italy's De Gasperi, West Germany's Adenauer and France's Bidault sit down to negotiate a treaty or discuss the future, they draw from a common religious inspiration that sees Europe reunited as it was before Europe burst asunder in post- Reformation strife. They share, too, the paradox of having come to power frankly religious men, in a Europe heavily influenced since the Age of Enlightenment by secularistic and often anti-religious political doctrine. In such a scene, the Christian Democrats have learned not to accent their sectarian differences, but to stress what they have in common.

What is their credo? Fundamentally, it is the common heritage of Western civilization, a Judeo-Christian heritage with which men of all faiths may agree. Their basic philosophical faith may be generally stated as a belief in 1) the fatherhood of God, 2) the brotherhood of man, 3) the essential dignity of man, and 4) the right of the individual to hold and administer private property, subject to his responsibilities to his fellowmen. Christian Democracy began as a Christian Socialism and gradually moved towards center and right. Originally, its intention was to escape the bleak godlessness of both left and right, while avoiding the charge of church domination, particularly domination by the Vatican. Trying to oppose materialism, while meeting it on its own good ground of material welfare for all, involves difficulties. "The Christian is a citizen of two worlds," says Catholic Philosopher Heinrich Rommen, "the City of God and the City of Man. He is destined for the former, but he must live and work for his salvation in the latter." From a deep and common tap root, the Christian Democrats of Europe branch out in a variety of directions.

Destro  posted on  2009-11-01   11:30:33 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: Destro (#33)

In post WW2 Europe it is called the social market and it was responsible for the miracle of the rebirth of Europe.

Not to mention the rebirth of the "thought police" in Germany, France, England, etc., ...

As well the wonderful Hellthcare System where you can have any care the Pharmaceutical Companies allow. Isn't that special?

It has given us the wondrous light of turned over and burning cars in gay Paris'.

Not to forget the arrest, imprisonment in solitary, and deportation of Ernst Zundel for believing things that are not approved by der State.

Aw yes, the wonders of Europe.

Tell me more Grunt Cakes.

Original_Intent  posted on  2009-11-01   11:42:45 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 35.

#36. To: Original_Intent (#35)

It has given us the wondrous light of turned over and burning cars in gay Paris'.

Better that than the murder rate in DC. America land of the free? We jail more people than Europe or Red China does. Eeven if you just count white people jailed leaving out the blacks and minorities we jail more whites than Europe does amongst her own population.

So where really is this mythical land of the free you speak of?

Destro  posted on  2009-11-01 11:55:55 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 35.

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