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Title: WHY CANADIANS ARE LAUGHING AT US
Source:
news.yahoo.com
URL Source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ucrr/200910 ... rr/whycanadiansarelaughingatus
Published: Oct 30, 2009
Author: Richard Reeves
Post Date: 2009-10-30 20:57:26 by Destro
Keywords: Canada
Views: 783
Comments: 63
WHY CANADIANS ARE LAUGHING AT US By Richard Reeves Richard Reeves AUSTIN, Texas -- A guy walks up to you in a bar here and asks, "Are you a Republican, conservative or independent?" You can't tell if he's kidding. After all, this is the most liberal place in the state. It's also where I first heard about Shona Holmes, the Canadian lady. Holmes, a 45-year-old citizen of a place called Waterdown in Ontario, has become the Joan of Arc of the battle against health care reform in the United States. As she tells it, OHIP, the acronym for the "free" (taxes pay for it) Canadian health care system, sentenced her to burn at the stake by putting her on a waiting list for analysis and treatment of what she calls a "brain tumor." Actually, it was a benign cyst near the brain. The technical name is Rathke's cleft cyst, a fluid-filled sac that grows near the pituitary gland. It can be painful and affect vision, but it is not life-threatening. A group called Patients United Now -- "people just like you," says its Web site -- is sponsoring television commercials featuring Shona Holmes in all 50 states. (I don't know if he is just like me, but an industrialist named David Koch is the principal financier of the Holmes campaign.) She is traveling our country making speeches and television appearances comparing the Canadian system to the Inquisition, saying she would have died waiting to see a doctor in her country. Instead, she says, she mortgaged her house, borrowed from neighbors, crossed the border and had the cyst removed at the Mayo Clinic in Arizona. Cost: $95,000. She seems to be, right now, the most hated woman in Canada. Newspapers are defending OHIP; bloggers are saying if she doesn't like Canada she can (and should) get out. A few voices are calling for Holmes to be deported. The Ottawa Citizen called her "disgusting." Canadians apparently love their system. A columnist for the Calgary Sun, Stephen Lautens, attended a conservative forum in Florida and sent back this report: "When hearing the horrors of the Canadian health-care system being described last weekend, all I could do was wince. ... 'Would (you) like to speak to a real, live Canadian about our health care,' I asked (two ladies in a bar)? "'Can you pick your own doctor?' was the first question. 'Because we hear the government assigns you a doctor in Canada.' "You indeed pick your own doctor, I assured them. ... It was also not true, I said, that it takes months to see your doctor. Mine complains she doesn't see me enough. There are gaps in our system, I confessed, where there are unacceptable wait lists for some kinds of surgery -- hips and knees and other things in demand. "'What's your health-care premium?' they wanted to know. They quoted theirs as being a couple thousand dollars a month. Their jaws dropped when I told them there really isn't one and everyone is covered from birth. "At this point, a small crowd had gathered around me at the bar to hear the Canadian tell his magical tale of health-care coverage. I told the story of breaking my shoulder in a fall, having one of the best shoulder specialists in Canada put it back together, a few days at the hospital and nine months of physiotherapy. The cost? "Thirty-five dollars, because the sling I went home in wasn't covered." The "disgusting" thing from an American perspective is the low level of the health-care debate. Or is it the gullibility of millions of Americans? The Senate Republican leader, Mitch McConnell, along with Fox News, has used the Shona Holmes story to attack health-care reform. True or not, it is interesting stuff, except for one thing: The American reforms being discussed are not at all like the Canadian single-payer system. So, Canadians, with longer, healthier lives, are yelling at Shona Holmes and laughing at us.
Poster Comment: This kind of false campaign of half truths has become the standard propaganda tactic for the right these last 8 years. It counts on those these campaigns are aimed at buying the lie by these oligarchs like the Koch family hook, line and sinker. Another example is to make up horror stories of the UK's socialist health care system which in reality - as bad as it is - the worst in Europe - still produces healthier population than the American system and costs less. Read it here: http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/42717.php The British Are Much Healthier Than The Americans Article Date: 03 May 2006 - 8:00 PDT A large study, which looked at the health of middle class, middle-aged, white residents in both the USA and Britain found that the British enjoy much better health than their American counterparts. Even though the USA has a much higher income per capita than the UK, about 25% higher, the British are far ahead when it comes to the health of its residents. Americans also spend a great deal more on health care than the British do. The average expenditure per head per year on health in the UK is $2,164, while in the USA it stands at $5,274. You can read about this study in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA), May 3 Issue. ------------------ So I would like to know why the right wing falls for such disinfo campaigns by hidden sources like the Kochs? Read about the Koch family @ http://exiledonline.com/tea-bagger-closet-cases-then-now-jfk-faced-exact-same-accusations-as-obama/ Koch Family & The Tea Bagger Loonies 1961-2009: JFK Faced Exact Same Crazy Rightwing Billionaire Family As Obama
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#23. To: Destro, mirage (#21)
Is it "rich people", do you think, who are referred to the US by 1 out of every 3 Canadian physicians each year? Is it "rich people", on whom the Canadian government spends more than $1 Billion annually getting health care in the USA?
You are a dolt of the highest order. You still have not bothered to go to the study itself. Btw, only one of the authors is an M.D., 2 are employed by a UK institute for "Fiscal Studies", and a 3rd is employed by the Rand Corp. Just sayin'.... www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=RAND_Corporation Here's what is stated in the MAIN OUTCOME MEASURE and CONCLUSION of the May 03/2006 study done by James Banks, PhD; Michael Marmot, M.D.; Zoe Oldfield, MSc; James P. Smith, PhD Main Outcome Measure: Self-reported prevalence rates of several chronic diseases related to diabetes and heart disease, adjusted for age and health behavior risk factors, were compared between the 2 countries and across education and income classes within each country. Conclusion Based on self-reported illnesses and biological markers of disease, US residents are much less healthy than their English counterparts and these differences exist at all points of the SES distribution. Postscript: there are a number of studies that dispute the validity of using "self-reported" health - do the PubMed search or Google thingie - I'm weary of playing games with a socialist groupie like yourself.
Ah! So now we know exactly where you are coming from. Give it all away. Never mind that progressive income taxes PREVENT the poor from ever getting out of their social class and rising up the chain. You just want to keep them in their place and feel good that you have "done something" to help them, even though your actions and desires will just keep them down. Good job, my Great Society friend. Next up, you'll be passing out armbands and wishing to regulate how often people can mow their lawns. How very Statist and Authoritarian of you. Why do you hate freedom so much?
COMRADE! Why are you not showing your Party affiliation and showing proper respect for Dear Leader? Put your Barackstika armband on RIGHT NOW!
You keep repeating that lie over when clearly the report states: So, both self-reporting and lab results suggest the same thing: British men appear to be significantly less likely to suffer from chronic disease than similar Americans. You have no response other than to denegrate the source - something the failed American right wing bots fall back to as a response.
"We have oil. We have Putin - all that Russians think they need." - Vladimir Dubin, senior researcher at the Moscow-based Levada Centre.
The USA's failed health model funnels its resources into overpriced specialties where the costs are more and less resources into lifestyle and prevention which this British study shows produces better overall results. So the British health model produces a healthier person that needs less specialist care while the American model produces a sicker person whi will need specialist care eventually. That is why the British system is cheaper than the American one. So yea, America is excellent if you need really expensive private care if you have the money but it screws over the vast majority. Your trumping the New Deal only highlights the right wing and left wing's failed ideological and economic thinking. I represent the German social market of the christian democrats which I have adopted for my own. You follow a false and failed god.
"We have oil. We have Putin - all that Russians think they need." - Vladimir Dubin, senior researcher at the Moscow-based Levada Centre.
So, both self-reporting and lab results suggest the same thing: British men appear to be significantly less likely to suffer from chronic disease than similar Americans. You have no response other than to denegrate the source - something the failed American right wing bots fall back to as a response. You really are so thick I can't believe I'm actually trying to have an adult reasoned conversation with you about a report that purports to be scientifically sound but uses "self-reported health" as its "MAIN Outcome Measure" to reach sweeping conclusions in comparing the health of a sampling of people in 2 different nations. And for your information, lab test markers do not = disease. If you can't open your mind to what I point out, here's something from the Am. J. Epidemiol. Salomon et al. 170 (3): 343 that discusses the inherent flaws and anomalies of using self-health reporting in comparative health studies. aje.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/170/3/343 "Are Americans Feeling Less Healthy? The Puzzle of Trends in Self-rated Health"
If you think Government can make you rich and take care of all your needs, it is not I who worship a false idol. Government creates nothing. All it can do is take from one person and redirect (less the graft it keeps for itself) to another. Show me how merely shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic makes everyone better off and you'll have a point. Until then, keep worshiping Mammon and the State, your chosen False Idols.
COMRADE! Why are you not showing your Party affiliation and showing proper respect for Dear Leader? Put your Barackstika armband on RIGHT NOW!
The survey uses BOTH the self reported - and then they corroborated that with laboratory testing. How can you say lab tests don't confirm diabetes, etc? You just made that crap up because this survey threatens your talking points and you are grabbing at straws. "We have oil. We have Putin - all that Russians think they need." - Vladimir Dubin, senior researcher at the Moscow-based Levada Centre.
What I am doing is to disprove the manipulations of the facts from special interest media operations that get filtered down to the people who buy it hook line and sinker becsause it conforms to their ideological world view. And I don't know where you have been these laft few months but the private sector died a wimpering death through its own stupidity.
"We have oil. We have Putin - all that Russians think they need." - Vladimir Dubin, senior researcher at the Moscow-based Levada Centre.
Then it should be left to die. I don't know where you've been all your life, but we used to call what is going on, and what you support -- fascism. Or at least Mussolini called it that. But you seem to think he was on to something good. I don't.
COMRADE! Why are you not showing your Party affiliation and showing proper respect for Dear Leader? Put your Barackstika armband on RIGHT NOW!
In post WW2 Europe it is called the social market and it was responsible for the miracle of the rebirth of Europe. http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,890558,00.html EUROPE'S CHRISTIAN DEMOCRATS Looking out over devastated Europe at war's end in 1945 the journalists of the world—plain reporters and exalted pundits—considered the future and, to a man, came to the same conclusion: Europe would go left and socialist. The right, dishonored by the Petains and Papens, and by its devotion to 19 century capitalism, was doomed. The center, caught between the stridencies of right & left, and forced to choose, would have to go left. Communists and Socialists had made a name in the undergrounds and concentration camps. And in the end, Socialism, the wave of the future, would triumph, as it had in Scandinavia long before, and in Britain only recently. The experts were wrong. Instead, postwar Europe's dominant force turned out to be Christian Democracy. Today, Christian Democrats govern or share heavily in the governing of every war-torn country of Western Europe; most of their Premiers and all of their foreign ministers (except The Netherlands') are Christian Democrats. All are disciples of European unity, all share an overall philosophy, all—perhaps by political accident—are Roman Catholics. When Italy's De Gasperi, West Germany's Adenauer and France's Bidault sit down to negotiate a treaty or discuss the future, they draw from a common religious inspiration that sees Europe reunited as it was before Europe burst asunder in post- Reformation strife. They share, too, the paradox of having come to power frankly religious men, in a Europe heavily influenced since the Age of Enlightenment by secularistic and often anti-religious political doctrine. In such a scene, the Christian Democrats have learned not to accent their sectarian differences, but to stress what they have in common. What is their credo? Fundamentally, it is the common heritage of Western civilization, a Judeo-Christian heritage with which men of all faiths may agree. Their basic philosophical faith may be generally stated as a belief in 1) the fatherhood of God, 2) the brotherhood of man, 3) the essential dignity of man, and 4) the right of the individual to hold and administer private property, subject to his responsibilities to his fellowmen. Christian Democracy began as a Christian Socialism and gradually moved towards center and right. Originally, its intention was to escape the bleak godlessness of both left and right, while avoiding the charge of church domination, particularly domination by the Vatican. Trying to oppose materialism, while meeting it on its own good ground of material welfare for all, involves difficulties. "The Christian is a citizen of two worlds," says Catholic Philosopher Heinrich Rommen, "the City of God and the City of Man. He is destined for the former, but he must live and work for his salvation in the latter." From a deep and common tap root, the Christian Democrats of Europe branch out in a variety of directions.
"We have oil. We have Putin - all that Russians think they need." - Vladimir Dubin, senior researcher at the Moscow-based Levada Centre.
You're a closet catholic aren't you...
Not to mention the rebirth of the "thought police" in Germany, France, England, etc., ... As well the wonderful Hellthcare System where you can have any care the Pharmaceutical Companies allow. Isn't that special? It has given us the wondrous light of turned over and burning cars in gay Paris'. Not to forget the arrest, imprisonment in solitary, and deportation of Ernst Zundel for believing things that are not approved by der State. Aw yes, the wonders of Europe. Tell me more Grunt Cakes.
"An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you know and what you don't. ~ Anatole France
Better that than the murder rate in DC. America land of the free? We jail more people than Europe or Red China does. Eeven if you just count white people jailed leaving out the blacks and minorities we jail more whites than Europe does amongst her own population. So where really is this mythical land of the free you speak of?
"We have oil. We have Putin - all that Russians think they need." - Vladimir Dubin, senior researcher at the Moscow-based Levada Centre.
So where really is this mythical land of the free you speak of? it's like you have memory loss or can't stop playing the same broken track over and over. euro-Kommie-EU-trash like you, the ones that sold out to Globalist Jew World Socialist/Kommunist/Fascist Order $banskters, got hold of America and slowly gutted everything. maybe you're just another eurotwinkie fascist, eh ?
Why right next to the delightful Socialist Rezpublik of Europe of course. However, we still have the freedom of speech to say things that would get you jailed in wonderful Europeski. There is something to be said for that. And many of our people, not all of course, have the wit to realize that "free" Hellthcare means State und Pharmaceutical Combine Approved® unlimited access to Big Pharma products and the death of Alternative Medicine.
"An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you know and what you don't. ~ Anatole France
You forgot the medical lobby ie Kaiser etc., with the motto of better health through chemical use. Somebody has to prescribe all this junk.
Oh, yes - good ol' Kaiser - the prototype for Socialized Hellthcare. I hear they got into trouble recently for over-prescribing anti-depressants for just about everything thing from acne to hang-nails. Of course my position of the so-called anti-depressants, and the total lack of any science behind their use, is known. However, Kaiser is sort of like the "Yugo" of Hellthcare.
"An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you know and what you don't. ~ Anatole France
If you call chronic structural unemployment, choking regulations, ethnic tensions, "no go zones" in major European cities, and Brussels dictating to the Scots that kilts are "women's clothing" a rebirth, and think that is a Renaissance, you're deluded.
COMRADE! Why are you not showing your Party affiliation and showing proper respect for Dear Leader? Put your Barackstika armband on RIGHT NOW!
Yes Your Honor this man has uh, errr, ah, "delusions".
"An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you know and what you don't. ~ Anatole France
COMRADE! Why are you not showing your Party affiliation and showing proper respect for Dear Leader? Put your Barackstika armband on RIGHT NOW!
Look, I'm going to spell it out for you as clearly and as simply as I can so you can hopefully comprehend....The authors of the report you continue to flog on 4um [ albeit not actually having read the report, I might add] draws sweeping conclusions about the quality of health care in the UK vs the USA by COMPARING SELF-REPORTED HEALTH from 2 sample groups of Brits and Americans. Who cares if the 2 groups had similar lab markers? That was done to narrow down the sampling WHOSE OPINIONS they were going to survey. Lab test markers do not measure health care services. Lab result markers aren't even a comprehensive measure of disease, as I noted earlier but that's another story that's neither here nor there for the purposes of discussion of the main flaw of this report. Survival rates, for example, for various disease are good measures of health care [and fyi, the USA is numero uno disease survival rates] but lab markers are not. And certainly self-reported health is not. Don't you get it? The authors used HIGHLY SUBJECTIVE DATA [ self-reported health] as their MAIN OUTCOME MEASURE to reach their conclusions about 2 national health care systems making their study unscientific and irrelevant.
Obama? Please don't post to me like a birther or tea bagger would. I don't respect any political party in the USA any longer let alone the Democrats and or Republicans. People like you who think there is a difference between the two are still around?
"We have oil. We have Putin - all that Russians think they need." - Vladimir Dubin, senior researcher at the Moscow-based Levada Centre.
No, you say it is subjective because it goes against your Rush Limbough, Sean Hannity world view. Deny it all you can but if piss poor England's health care beats our performance record then America is a third world banana republic.
"We have oil. We have Putin - all that Russians think they need." - Vladimir Dubin, senior researcher at the Moscow-based Levada Centre.
You seem to think I am not permitted to mock the incumbent. When did you become an Obamaphile? Why do you defend him?
COMRADE! Why are you not showing your Party affiliation and showing proper respect for Dear Leader? Put your Barackstika armband on RIGHT NOW!
People like you who think there is a difference between the two are still around? You seem to think I am not permitted to mock the incumbent. When did you become an Obamaphile? Why do you defend him? Where did you get I was pro Obama - you make a statement like that after I comment how you types only see Dem vs Rep?
"We have oil. We have Putin - all that Russians think they need." - Vladimir Dubin, senior researcher at the Moscow-based Levada Centre.
Well, you are objecting to mocking the folks in office for some reason. Why would you do that? Do you feel the current batch should not be mocked for some reason?
COMRADE! Why are you not showing your Party affiliation and showing proper respect for Dear Leader? Put your Barackstika armband on RIGHT NOW!
You reply was out of context with the article - how the Republican liars were using a false story in Canada by a kook to scare Americans in the health care debate and your reply was on mocking Obama. Thus my conclusion you see any mocking of the right as pro Obama.
"We have oil. We have Putin - all that Russians think they need." - Vladimir Dubin, senior researcher at the Moscow-based Levada Centre.
That depends on what you define as "the right". If you define "the right" as I do, which is tear down the existing structure - as a friend of mine puts it - "to a size where I can put it in my vagina" then you're wrong. If you define "the right" as the GOP, then I'm going to tell you that You Are Wrong. If you are a European Christian Democrat, then Obama is your guy and I reserve the privilege to mock you until you come to your senses.
COMRADE! Why are you not showing your Party affiliation and showing proper respect for Dear Leader? Put your Barackstika armband on RIGHT NOW!
Why would I bother with the pitiful remains of the "true" right wing when the vast majority of them became Bush-bots or Palin-drones or McCainiacs or birther kooks or manipulated teabaggers? It is hard to make a distinction for the pure orthodox right wing in America that is .000001% (estimated) of the population.
"We have oil. We have Putin - all that Russians think they need." - Vladimir Dubin, senior researcher at the Moscow-based Levada Centre.
More like Merkel or Sarkozy. The Christian Democrats unlike the punk Republicans are in power in many places around the world that are not hell holes like America had become under the Republicans.
"We have oil. We have Putin - all that Russians think they need." - Vladimir Dubin, senior researcher at the Moscow-based Levada Centre.
Like Sri Lanka? Like Eastern Europe? Like all the places that are falling apart? I know immigrants from Socialist hellholes. They say that system is the reason they left. Do you ever see anyone sneaking into Cuba or Sri Lanka? Did anyone ever sneak into East Germany?
COMRADE! Why are you not showing your Party affiliation and showing proper respect for Dear Leader? Put your Barackstika armband on RIGHT NOW!
You mean the Tea Parties that are busily telling Republican Party operatives that they are not welcome? Those Tea Parties? Really, you need to put the hate away or put on an armband. While you're at it, get a clue.
COMRADE! Why are you not showing your Party affiliation and showing proper respect for Dear Leader? Put your Barackstika armband on RIGHT NOW!
Buddhist Sri Lanka is run by a Christian Democratic party? Wow.
"We have oil. We have Putin - all that Russians think they need." - Vladimir Dubin, senior researcher at the Moscow-based Levada Centre.
Yea, those fake, astroturf tea-party kookers.
"We have oil. We have Putin - all that Russians think they need." - Vladimir Dubin, senior researcher at the Moscow-based Levada Centre.
Really? So you believe England's health care "beats our performance record?" "Disease outcomes" — how people fare after diagnosis - is the only valid and accurate way to measure "performance" of health care systems - and the US tops not only the UK but also the US beats all the health care systems of Euro nations and Canada re: survival rates for potentially lethal cancer diseases. [ ditto for superior survival rates for US patients after heart attacks and strokes]. A broad cancer survival rate review of Euro nations and the US was published in the September 2007 issue of Lancet Oncology - here's a summary of the findings: "U.S. Cancer Care Is Number One" 10/11/07 Some cut and paste: Overall Cancer Survival Rates. According to the survey of cancer survival rates in Europe and the United States, published recently in Lancet Oncology : * American women have a 63 percent chance of living at least five years after a cancer diagnosis, compared to 56 percent for European women. * American men have a five-year survival rate of 66 percent — compared to only 47 percent for European men. * Among European countries, only Sweden has an overall survival rate for men of more than 60 percent. * For women, only three European countries (Sweden, Belgium and Switzerland) have an overall survival rate of more than 60 percent. These figures reflect the care available to all Americans, not just those with private health coverage. Great Britain, known for its 50-year-old government-run, universal health care system, fares worse than the European average: British men have a five-year survival rate of only 45 percent; women, only 53 percent. Survival Rates for Specific Cancers: U.S. survival rates are higher than the average in Europe for 13 of 16 types of cancer reported in Lancet Oncology , confirming the results of previous studies. * Of cancers that affect primarily men, the survival rate among Americans for bladder cancer is 15 percentage points higher than the European average; for prostate cancer, it is 28 percentage points higher. * Of cancers that affect women only, the survival rate among Americans for uterine cancer is about 5 percentage points higher than the European average; for breast cancer, it is 14 percentage points higher. * The United States has survival rates of 90 percent or higher for five cancers (skin melanoma, breast, prostate, thyroid and testicular), but there is only one cancer for which the European survival rate reaches 90 percent (testicular). Furthermore, the Lancet Oncology study found that lung cancer patients in the United States have the best chance of surviving five years — about 16 percent — whereas patients in Great Britain have only an 8 percent chance, which is lower than the European average of 11 percent. U.S. Cancer Care Is Number One. Results for Canada. Canada's system of national health insurance is often cited as a model for the United States. But an analysis of 2001 to 2003 data by June O'Neill, former director of the Congressional Budget Office, and economist David O'Neill, found that overall cancer survival rates are higher in the United States than in Canada: * For women, the average survival rate for all cancers is 61 percent in the United States, compared to 58 percent in Canada. * For men, the average survival rate for all cancers is 57 percent in the United States, compared to 53 percent in Canada.
Think tank front groups is your source? That is all you guys have - bought and paid for mercenaries who shill for the oligarchs via lobby front groups and private think tanks.
"We have oil. We have Putin - all that Russians think they need." - Vladimir Dubin, senior researcher at the Moscow-based Levada Centre.
A new research study, just published in the American Journal of Public Health, provides a rather stark comparison between the health status of rich and poor adults in the United States and Europe. In this study, more than 17,000 adults between the ages of 50 and 74 years were interviewed from among 10 European countries. Nearly 7,000 Americans of similar age were also interviewed for this study. The researchers assessed these 24,000 middle-aged and elderly adults for 6 chronic illnesses that are commonly accepted as indicators of the overall health of a society. In general, the American adults reported poorer overall health than their European counterparts. While the differences in health between the two groups of adults were, not surprisingly, more pronounced among poorer patients, even the wealthier Americans reported more problems with their health when compared to wealthy Europeans. At the same time, the gap in health status between rich and poor was much smaller among Europeans than was observed among the American patients who participated in this study. (As a striking example of the health disparities between Americans and Europeans, heart disease, the number one cause of death in most developed countries, was present in 18 percent of Americans, but in only 11 percent of Europeans, in this study.) "We have oil. We have Putin - all that Russians think they need." - Vladimir Dubin, senior researcher at the Moscow-based Levada Centre.
Nice try, no cigar, Destro. You can read the full text articles re: US survival rates cancer and heart attacks/stroke vs those of Euro nations and Canada - I've provided you with the appropriate bibliographic citations below. Since you have demonstrated significant difficulties in reading and comprehending statistical info provided in full text medical reports, I thought I'd make it easier for your small-brained, socialist, goose-stepping self by giving you a short summary. But by all means, knock yourself out reading the full-text original articles to double check if the author of the summary, Betsy McCaughey, a former lieutenant governor of New York, is lying re: the stats she provides from the articles she cites as her sources. The first article is available to you full-text if you have online access to a college library holdings. Otherwise you can read it in person at any med school library. Arduino Verdecchia et al., "Recent cancer survival in Europe : a 2000–02 period analysis of EUROCARE-4 data," Lancet Oncology, 2007, No. 8, pages 784–796. June O'Neill and Dave M. O'Neill, "Health Status, Health Care and Inequality: Canada vs. the U.S.," National Bureau of Economic Research, NBER Working Paper 13429, September 2007. Available at www.nber.org/papers/w13429.
A comparison of feedback from "self-health" interviews VERSUS international statistical survival rates from various cancers and heart attacks and strokes in the US, Canada, Euro nations... Hmmm... which is an accurate and objective measure of "performance" of national health care systems?...hmmm...
Heart disease is mostly indicative of diet. Please tell me how a Nationalized Healthcare System will correct that.
COMRADE! Why are you not showing your Party affiliation and showing proper respect for Dear Leader? Put your Barackstika armband on RIGHT NOW!
#24. To: Destro, mirage (#22)
#25. To: Destro (#21)
Rich people from all over the world can fly to the USA for expensive specialist surgery while the poor in America are crapped on.
#26. To: scrapper2 (#24)
Conclusion Based on self-reported illnesses and biological markers of disease, US residents are much less healthy than their English counterparts and these differences exist at all points of the SES distribution.
#27. To: mirage (#25)
(Edited)
#28. To: Destro (#26)
You keep repeating that lie over when clearly the report states:
#29. To: Destro (#27)
You follow a false and failed god.
#30. To: scrapper2 (#28)
about a report that purports to be scientifically sound but uses "self-reported health" as its "MAIN Outcome Measure"
#31. To: mirage (#29)
#32. To: Destro (#31)
And I don't know where you have been these laft few months but the private sector died a wimpering death through its own stupidity.
#33. To: mirage (#32)
I don't know where you've been all your life, but we used to call what is going on, and what you support -- fascism. Or at least Mussolini called it that.
#34. To: destro (#33)
Welcome back to 4um, euro-wannabe-Kommie-trash...
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams 
#35. To: Destro (#33)
In post WW2 Europe it is called the social market and it was responsible for the miracle of the rebirth of Europe.
#36. To: Original_Intent (#35)
It has given us the wondrous light of turned over and burning cars in gay Paris'.
#37. To: destro (#36)
Better that than the murder rate in DC. America land of the free? We jail more people than Europe or Red China does. Eeven if you just count white people jailed leaving out the blacks and minorities we jail more whites than Europe does amongst her own population.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#38. To: Destro (#36)
So where really is this mythical land of the free you speak of?
#39. To: Original_Intent (#38)
And many of our people, not all of course, have the wit to realize that "free" Hellthcare means State und Pharmaceutical Combine Approved® unlimited access to Big Pharma products and the death of Alternative Medicine.
#40. To: mininggold (#39)
#41. To: Destro (#33)
In post WW2 Europe it is called the social market and it was responsible for the miracle of the rebirth of Europe.
#42. To: mirage, Destro (#41)
, and think that is a Renaissance, you're deluded.
#43. To: Original_Intent, Destro (#42)
#44. To: Destro (#30)
(Edited)
The survey uses BOTH the self reported - and then they corroborated that with laboratory testing. How can you say lab tests don't confirm diabetes, etc? You just made that crap up because this survey threatens your talking points and you are grabbing at straws.
#45. To: mirage (#43)
#46. To: scrapper2 (#44)
#47. To: Destro (#45)
People like you who think there is a difference between the two are still around?
#48. To: mirage (#47)
#49. To: Destro (#48)
Where did you get I was pro Obama - you make a statement like that after I comment how you types only see Dem vs Rep?
#50. To: mirage (#49)
Well, you are objecting to mocking the folks in office for some reason.
#51. To: Destro (#50)
Thus my conclusion you see any mocking of the right as pro Obama.
#52. To: mirage (#51)
#53. To: mirage (#51)
If you are a European Christian Democrat, then Obama is your guy and I reserve the privilege to mock you until you come to your senses.
#54. To: Destro (#53)
The Christian Democrats unlike the punk Republicans are in power in many places around the world that are not hell holes like America had become under the Republicans.
#55. To: Destro (#52)
Why would I bother with the pitiful remains of the "true" right wing when the vast majority of them became Bush-bots or Palin-drones or McCainiacs or birther kooks or manipulated teabaggers?
#56. To: mirage (#54)
Sri Lanka?
#57. To: mirage (#55)
You mean the Tea Parties that are busily telling Republican Party operatives that they are not welcome? Those Tea Parties?
#58. To: Destro, mirage, christine, Jethro Tull, Prefrontal Vortex, Original_Intent, Brian S, All (#46)
No, you say it is subjective because it goes against your Rush Limbough, Sean Hannity world view. Deny it all you can but if piss poor England's health care beats our performance record then America is a third world banana republic.
#59. To: scrapper2, mirage, christine, Jethro Tull, Prefrontal Vortex, Original_Intent, Brian S (#58)
#60. To: scrapper2, mirage, christine, Jethro Tull, Prefrontal Vortex, Original_Intent, Brian S (#58)
http://freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=109632&Disp=1#C1
#61. To: Destro, mirage, christine, Jethro Tull, Prefrontal Vortex, Original_Intent, Brian S, All (#59)
Think tank front groups is your source? That is all you guys have - bought and paid for mercenaries who shill for the oligarchs via lobby front groups and private think tanks.
#62. To: Destro, mirage, christine, Jethro Tull, Prefrontal Vortex, Original_Intent, Brian S, All (#60)
#63. To: Destro (#60)
heart disease
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