[Home]  [Headlines]  [Latest Articles]  [Latest Comments]  [Post]  [Sign-in]  [Mail]  [Setup]  [Help] 

Status: Not Logged In; Sign In

Elon Musk at Charlie Kirk Memorial: "Charlie Kirk was killed by the DARK.."

Netflix as Jewish Daycare for Women

Warning America About Palantir: Richie From Boston

I'm not done asking questions about the killing of Charlie Kirk.

6 reasons the stock market bubble is worse than anyone expected.

Elon Musk: Charlie Kirk was killed because his words made a difference.

Try It For 5 Days! - The Most EFFICIENT Way To LOSE FAT

Number Of US Student Visas Issued To Asians Tumbles

Range than U.S HIMARS, Russia Unveils New Variant of 300mm Rocket Launcher on KamAZ-63501 Chassis

Keir Starmer’s Hidden Past: The Cases Nobody Talks About

BRICS Bombshell! Putin & China just DESTROYED the U.S. Dollar with this gold move

Clashes, arrests as tens of thousands protest flood-control corruption in Philippines

The death of Yu Menglong: Political scandal in China (Homo Rape & murder of Actor)

The Pacific Plate Is CRACKING: A Massive Geological Disaster Is Unfolding!

Waste Of The Day: Veterans' Hospital Equipment Is Missing

The Earth Has Been Shaken By 466,742 Earthquakes So Far In 2025

LadyX

Half of the US secret service and every gov't three letter agency wants Trump dead. Tomorrow should be a good show

1963 Chrysler Turbine

3I/ATLAS is Beginning to Reveal What it Truly Is

Deep Intel on the Damning New F-35 Report

CONFIRMED “A 757 did NOT hit the Pentagon on 9/11” says Military witnesses on the scene

NEW: Armed man detained at site of Kirk memorial: Report

$200 Silver Is "VERY ATTAINABLE In Coming Rush" Here's Why - Mike Maloney

Trump’s Project 2025 and Big Tech could put 30% of jobs at risk by 2030

Brigitte Macron is going all the way to a U.S. court to prove she’s actually a woman

China's 'Rocket Artillery 360 Mile Range 990 Pound Warhead

FED's $3.5 Billion Gold Margin Call

France Riots: Battle On Streets Of Paris Intensifies After Macron’s New Move Sparks Renewed Violence

Saudi Arabia Pakistan Defence pact agreement explained | Geopolitical Analysis


Health
See other Health Articles

Title: HEALTH DIFFERENCES BETWEEN AMERICANS & EUROPEANS
Source: doctorwascher.com
URL Source: http://doctorwascher.com/Archives/2-22-09.htm
Published: Feb 22, 2009
Author: Robert A. Wascher, MD, FACS
Post Date: 2009-11-02 16:41:11 by Destro
Keywords: None
Views: 2191
Comments: 150

By, Robert A. Wascher, MD, FACS

Last Updated: 02/22/2009

HEALTH DIFFERENCES BETWEEN AMERICANS & EUROPEANS

I have commented before about the striking discordance between the amount of money that we spend on health care in the United States and the health outcomes that we achieve with all of those dollars. At more than $2 trillion dollars per year, or more than $7,000 per citizen per year, the U.S. spends more on health care than virtually every other country in the world. One would, therefore, assume that all of those trillions of health care dollars would translate into a globally unsurpassed level of health and wellbeing in America. However, one would actually be mistaken in this assumption, as the United States lags behind many other countries of the world, including a few relatively underdeveloped countries, in several very important public health benchmarks. As if this were not bad enough, the world’s richest nation has an estimated 47 million uninsured citizens, with millions more possessing utterly inadequate health insurance coverage (millions of us in this country are just one serious illness away from financial ruin).

Health care reform in the United States continues to be a political “third rail,” although virtually all stakeholders are in agreement that our healthcare system is dysfunctional and inefficient, and that it offers the American people very poor value for their money. However, there is considerable disagreement regarding the root causes that underlie the acknowledged deficiencies in our health care system, which means that there is also pervasive disagreement regarding the best interventions to undertake. Amidst the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression, and with no end in sight to the ongoing Not-Quite-As-Great-Depression, it is unclear whether or not the fledgling Obama Administration will be able to assemble the political capital and the will to wade into the treacherous waters of health care reform within the foreseeable future.

A new research study, just published in the American Journal of Public Health, provides a rather stark comparison between the health status of rich and poor adults in the United States and Europe. In this study, more than 17,000 adults between the ages of 50 and 74 years were interviewed from among 10 European countries. Nearly 7,000 Americans of similar age were also interviewed for this study. The researchers assessed these 24,000 middle-aged and elderly adults for 6 chronic illnesses that are commonly accepted as indicators of the overall health of a society.

In general, the American adults reported poorer overall health than their European counterparts. While the differences in health between the two groups of adults were, not surprisingly, more pronounced among poorer patients, even the wealthier Americans reported more problems with their health when compared to wealthy Europeans. At the same time, the gap in health status between rich and poor was much smaller among Europeans than was observed among the American patients who participated in this study. (As a striking example of the health disparities between Americans and Europeans, heart disease, the number one cause of death in most developed countries, was present in 18 percent of Americans, but in only 11 percent of Europeans, in this study.)

This study puts some important numbers on health trends that have become increasingly obvious over the past few decades. When comparing health outcomes between two populations of patients that live in similarly modern, industrialized, and western societies, the United States fares very poorly, indeed.

Our nation’s focus on disease prevention is haphazard and poorly executed, resulting in unacceptably high rates of preventable diseases and disease-related complications. Rather than investing our nation’s wealth in disease prevention and screening programs, we, instead, backload our inefficient and byzantine health care system with trillions of dollars, every year, to treat the complications of diseases that are, in many cases, almost entirely preventable. European countries spend, on average, only 50 to 60 percent as much on health care, per capita, as we do here in the United States, and yet their health outcomes frequently exceed ours in multiple critical areas of public health.

While we may not all agree on every detail, almost all of us agree that our health care system is fundamentally broken, and that we cannot go on with “business as usual” any longer. Despite the ongoing implosion of the economy, we must somehow find the will and the foresight to overhaul our current fractured and wasteful health care system, including a much greater emphasis on promoting healthful lifestyle habits, and improved disease prevention and screening programs. As the average age of our population continues to rise, our ongoing failure to step up to the plate and fix our dysfunctional health care system will, increasingly, cost our nation dearly.

Click for Full Text!


Poster Comment:

Doctor Wascher's Biography@ http://doctorwascher.com/Doctor%20Wascher%20Bio%20-%202008.htm

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  


TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest

Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 130.

#4. To: Destro, christine (#0)

Oh goodie. Goldi Bans this Anti-American pervert, and now he's over here posting his Anti-American Nonsense.

The reason why Americans have poorer health, is because we work 40 Plus hours a week, just to cover the taxes of our Socialist, Traitorous Masters levy against our productivity.

Europeans work less, than we do. 30 hours a week or less, and get a mandatory month's vacation.

Why you are letting this NON-American piece of filth to post here is beyond me.

TommyTheMadArtist  posted on  2009-11-02   19:17:44 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: TommyTheMadArtist, Rotara, tom007 (#4)

That's OK, tea party pig - I got Goldie banned as well.

Also, this article is written by an American doctor and former Army colonel: In 2006, Dr. Wascher retired from the Army at the rank of Colonel, and was appointed as the Director of the Division of Surgical Oncology at Newark Beth Israel Medical Center, and as a Clinical Associate Professor of Surgery at the University of Medicine & Dentistry of New Jersey.

So I guess he is an anti-America traitor to Europe as well? Loser LPer trying to make up an excuse why Dr. Wascher, a smarter and more accomplished man than you is wrong. What other trailer park wisdom are you going to throw down to discredit this accomplished doctor?

Destro  posted on  2009-11-02   21:18:51 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Destro (#7)

That's OK, tea party pig - I got Goldie banned as well.

I have found myself of late compelled to revisit the mission statement of Freedom4um. I am inviting each of you to do the same. I have determined that there are some here whose value system and opinions are not in keeping with, and are even detrimental, to the mission of this forum.

freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=109510

You're no longer welcome here.

christine  posted on  2009-11-02   21:34:55 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: christine, Destro (#12)

You're no longer welcome here.

I think your call here is unwise, unless you want an echo chamber.

I enjoyed reading Destro's opinions and input. He backed his stuff up pretty well, including on this thread.

Whatever.

Fred Mertz  posted on  2009-11-02   22:11:28 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Fred Mertz (#15) (Edited)

He backed his stuff up pretty well, including on this thread.

Fred, how is it possible to 'back up pretty well' a grab by central government of nearly 20% of our GDP? The word for that is socialism, a vile form of government that shouldn't be debated, but rather rejected outright.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2009-11-02   22:17:37 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Jethro Tull (#17)

I asked him three times to answer one simple question.

No answer as his agenda is so biased he cannot think outside his own little box.

Cynicom  posted on  2009-11-02   22:22:25 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Cynicom (#19)

No answer as his agenda is so biased he cannot think outside his own little box.

I'm certain other observers might make the same comment about you.

Fred Mertz  posted on  2009-11-02   22:25:01 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Fred Mertz (#22)

I'm certain other observers might make the same comment about you.

His box is larger than most all the rest of us.

We should pay attention, and try to understand, what he brings to us.

Lod  posted on  2009-11-02   22:31:55 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: Lod (#29)

His box is larger than most all the rest of us.

He rarely fails to give an interesting perspective and make other posters think and have to back up their arguments. I don't see that as a problem to those who come prepared. Anyway... there is a Bozo filter on this site that should be used by those who need a higher comfort level.

mininggold  posted on  2009-11-02   22:51:21 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: mininggold, christine (#36) (Edited)

He rarely fails to give an interesting perspective and make other posters think and have to back up their arguments.

Say what?

Did Destro ever effectively back up his "interesting perspective" when challenged with facts that discredited his "interesting perspective?"

You must hold "interesting perspectives" too to appreciate Destro's childish attacks on anyone who offered evidence contrary to his pedestrian AND redundant posts. He never even bothered to read the original source material that he tried to pass off as the word from the Medical Mount. He could not answer questions about the material he posted because his research and readings were so shoddy and limited, he COULD NOT.

Please spare me your admiration of that intellectually shallow, ill-informed, socialist goose stepper.

I did not call for Destro's departure but to be honest I am not unhappy that christine reached the conclusion that Destro had no interest in making positive contributions to open and honest discussions on political issues we face today. Frankly after I saw the link to the threats a few days ago that Destro made to another political discussion forum moderator, I am now breathing a sigh of relief that Destro can't pursue his anti-free speech philosophy against this forum's moderator owner. We all are very lucky that christine offers this loosely moderated forum as a safe environment to exercise our free speech and discuss our opinions about a breadth of issues. I am more concerned about christine's continued ability to offer us this forum, than fretting about the exit of a hostile poster who offered little in the way of objective, agenda-free material.

scrapper2  posted on  2009-11-02   23:26:58 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: scrapper2 (#40)

Please spare me your admiration of that intellectually limited, ill-informed, socialist goose stepper.

Says the fascist goose stepper...

Fred Mertz  posted on  2009-11-02   23:31:35 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: Fred Mertz (#43)

Says the fascist goose stepper...

That Destro does get some panties in a wad. You can tell the ones that would destabilize easily in a crisis.

lolol

mininggold  posted on  2009-11-02   23:42:00 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: mininggold (#52)

That Destro does get some panties in a wad. You can tell the ones that would destabilize easily in a crisis.

lolol

At least the posters you allude to are women who have a valid physiological reason for wearing panties.

What's your excuse?

scrapper2  posted on  2009-11-02   23:52:54 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: scrapper2 (#55)

What's your excuse?

A - He likes to keep in touch with his feminine side.

B - He's a leftist wacko

C - All of the above

Take your pick

Flintlock  posted on  2009-11-03   0:09:05 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: Flintlock, scrapper2 (#56)

mininggold has been on my bozo for more than a month. She is a wacko LP troll from LP who melts down when you mention anything negative about California. She insists I'm an R, despite me not having voted for them in decades. When someone, without evidence, continues to use the same line over and over, their intentions are clear. She should find Destro, and then seek out a more pleasant posting experience.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2009-11-03   8:37:12 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#79. To: Jethro Tull (#59)

mininggold has been on my bozo for more than a month. She is a wacko LP troll from LP who melts down when you mention anything negative about California. She insists I'm an R, despite me not having voted for them in decades. When someone, without evidence, continues to use the same line over and over, their intentions are clear. She should find Destro, and then seek out a more pleasant posting experience.

The people's nest has room, that's for certain...

Rotara  posted on  2009-11-03   11:50:20 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#83. To: Rotara, Christine (#79)

The people's nest has room, that's for certain...

JT doing the spinning as usual so you can email it.

I have never insisted it is an R but I do not consider a serial nonvoter as even having the right to a opinion much less calling other posters to commit sedition and other illegal acts, even wishing for nuclear holocaust.... as a former cop who is probably still under oath????

But being it needs Christine to come to it's rescue now and then I did have my doubts about it being male, or else it's a big donor. Something I had not wanted to think Christine capable of until yesterday.

mininggold  posted on  2009-11-03   12:01:53 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#86. To: mininggold (#83)

Where do you people hatch and grow ?

Rotara  posted on  2009-11-03   12:07:44 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#89. To: Rotara (#86)

Where do you people hatch and grow ?

Now that is the best question you have asked today.

There are 130 million losers out there that did their "patriotic duty" as programmed and voted for the "loser" of their choice.

You need to bone up on the terms..GULLIBLE...NAIVE...PROGRAMMED.

Cynicom  posted on  2009-11-03   12:13:51 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#93. To: Cynicom (#89)

You need to bone up on the terms..GULLIBLE...NAIVE...PROGRAMMED.

And hated by republican regulars and spinners. Just mentioning or even inferring Ron Paul often brings out the true colors of many a poster as they sidle around the dratted offender trying to disenfranchise without appearing obvious. lolol

mininggold  posted on  2009-11-03   12:29:35 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#95. To: mininggold (#93)

And hated by republican regulars and spinners. Just mentioning or even inferring Ron Paul often brings out the true colors of many a poster as they sidle around the dratted offender trying to disenfranchise without appearing obvious. lolol

There was no "choice" beyond Paul in the last fraud election.

As time passes, it becomes more evident that Paul being just another professional politician, ran for a purpose, however not a run for president.

Paul served the "system" in that he kept any other legitimate third party candidate from getting off the ground. When his mission was complete, he folded his tent and stole back into his beloved republican party, welcomed with open arms, for a job well done.

With Paul a non factor from the opening bell, the system had scammed the process one more time.

A nation of programmed sheep is proven by what we now see happening this very day...wonder of wonders the republican most likely will awaken from the dead and move into the spotlight...

It is nothing but a shell game.

Cynicom  posted on  2009-11-03   12:41:00 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#102. To: Cynicom (#95)

Paul served the "system" in that he kept any other legitimate third party candidate from getting off the ground. When his mission was complete, he folded his tent and stole back into his beloved republican party, welcomed with open arms, for a job well done.

Who were these "legitimate third party candidates" that Paul single handedly, like a super hero, kept "from getting off the ground"? And what is this "stole back to the republican party" business? Paul ran as a republican and remains a republican, far more republican that Juan McAmnesty or Mittens Romney could ever fathom with his truly small government ways and mentality.

This is the silliest arguement of Paul having dubious and sinister aspirations that I have ever heard, Cyni.

abraxas  posted on  2009-11-03   12:57:04 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#109. To: abraxas (#102)

This is the silliest arguement of Paul having dubious and sinister aspirations that I have ever heard, Cyni.

Lets assume you watched one of the first republican debates held in New England that played on national TV.

If indeed you watched and listened, did you find something strange that Paul was laughed off stage by several of the other pubs? Do you recall what if anything Paul said to defend himself???

The other debates played out much the same way, with Paul seemingly unconcerned by the abuse heaped upon him by his fellow republicans. Anyone remotely vetted in politics cast a jaundiced eye on such apathy.

And then out of the blue, after collecting millions of dollars from the rubes, came the Trotski memo. What an oddity that was. Paul went to great extreme to profess his fidelity to the republican party and he would always remain a republican. How odd, he quit to "fight" for his seat in congress. He won easily as usual.

Now Paul is allowing his son to use his donor mailing lists to solicit more millions for his run for the Senate. Total loss of integrity there.

Politics is a dirty business and regardless of what they say, each and everyone of them are professional politicians.

Cynicom  posted on  2009-11-03   13:34:44 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#111. To: Cynicom (#109) (Edited)

And then out of the blue, after collecting millions of dollars from the rubes, came the Trotski memo. What an oddity that was. Paul went to great extreme to profess his fidelity to the republican party and he would always remain a republican. How odd, he quit to "fight" for his seat in congress. He won easily as usual.

But, Cynicom, as I recall, Ron Paul stated right from the start that he was not planning to run as anything but as a GOP Pres candidate. He made it abundantly clear that he would not be switching to run as a Third Party Pres candidate so that meant he was willing to ride out the predictable back stabbing from his own party to get media exposure for his conservative ideas. He also made no bones about the fact that of the 2 national parties we currently have, he identified more closely with the GOP.

The fact that in current federal elections, conservative candidates are actually challenging GOP anointed RINO ones, is not accidental - I think it comes from Ron Paul's GOP Pres candidacy run - he has given courage to other conservatives within the GOP who would otherwise be silent, and that in itself is quite an accomplishment.

I'm guessing this is what Ron Paul came to realize over the years he's served in Congress - ie. that this nation will continue to have a 2 party political system for many many years to come and of the 2 parties the one that might have an iota of hope for reform from within is the GOP, and not the Dem Party. You can argue that this type of thinking may seem too pragmatic or too pessimistic, but I don't think you can label it a double cross or a betrayal or Trotsky-like. Ron Paul ran his GOP Pres candidacy campaign as long as he could. He called it quits when the numbers clearly showed there was no chance and that point he focused his attentions on campaigning to retain his congressional seat. What else should he have done, in your opinion?

Regarding Ron Paul's call for donations, paying for a Pres candidate campaign is an incredibly expensive undertaking. Are you suggesting that Ron Paul profited personally from the donations he collected - that he didn't use the $ to pay off the campaign debts he had accumulated?

Regarding Ron Paul's son using his father's donor list, it's to be expected - Rand is an aspiring politician - where else would he start to find potential donors for a platform that is based on conservative principles he shares with his Dad?

scrapper2  posted on  2009-11-03   14:42:35 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#126. To: scrapper2, Cyni, christine, all (#111)

But, Cynicom, as I recall, Ron Paul stated right from the start that he was not planning to run as anything but as a GOP Pres candidate

I'll agree with this scrapper, but I'd like to add the following. RP entered the race as an after thought. He never expected his effort to grow as it did. It took him off balance, and he said as much. When the money and movement he benefited from was at it's zenith, he then had an opportunity to change American political history. That would have meant him leaving the Rs and either going as an I, L, or create a new party. The *record breaking money* he was raising made his opportunity unique to all others to date. It was pure grassroots and Internet driven. The establishment was dazed and confused. When he chose to remain loyal to the Rs and not the movement, his political soul was exposed. If the nation was at the precipice he claimed it was (it is), wasn't a chance to save it the only option for him? For him to claim he wouldn't have been reelected to his TX seat as anything but an R was a bucket of Texas hogwash. He had money, name recognition and volunteers enough to easily pull out a district victory. In the end, RP will best be remembered as a loyal Republican who occasionally authors bills that go nowhere.

Give me Traficant.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2009-11-03   17:55:42 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#130. To: Jethro Tull (#126)

RP entered the race as an after thought. He never expected his effort to grow as it did. It took him off balance, and he said as much. When the money and movement he benefited from was at it's zenith, he then had an opportunity to change American political history. That would have meant him leaving the Rs and either going as an I, L, or create a new party. The *record breaking money* he was raising made his opportunity unique to all others to date. It was pure grassroots and Internet driven. The establishment was dazed and confused. When he chose to remain loyal to the Rs and not the movement, his political soul was exposed.

Jethro - you're a dreamer with respect to what Ron Paul "could have/should have" done. Imo, Ron Paul followed through with the only option available to him that guaranteed a modicum of success for himself and for the conservative movement politically speaking.

On the one hand you admit that Ron Paul's candidacy run was a spur of the moment decision and that he was genuinely surprised, even shocked that there was such a ground swell of support for his ideas and for him.

But then you say after being shocked at the support, he should have jumped ship and run as a Third Party Pres candidate. Wow! That's a tall order for a humble 74 year old obgyn turned Congressman from Texas. Grassroots financial support via the internet is one thing but it's quite another thing altogether to field viable Third Party Senate and House candidates across the 50 states in such a limited time frame to stand as a credible political party to vote for to the electorate.

Ron Paul recognized that there was no way a Third Party could mount a successful campaign in the November 2008 election. What he saw as possible and a realistic goal to achieve was what he pursued - he was able to give a higher profile to common sense fiscal conservative small gov't ideals - which had never been done before in a reasonable and respected fashion -for the general public's consideration and the popularity of his views has given confidence for other conservative minded political candidates "to come out." Also, Ron Paul was able to keep his political seat as Congressman to continue to represent his constituency's interests in DC and to speak out to Americans at large about the wasteful and perfidious legislation being promoted. Without his insider's voice who else is there in Congress who would fill RP's role as DC's good conscience?

scrapper2  posted on  2009-11-03   18:50:23 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 130.

#131. To: scrapper2. all (#130)

Ron Paul recognized that there was no way a Third Party could mount a successful campaign in the November 2008 election. What he saw as possible and a realistic goal to achieve was what he pursued - he was able to give a higher profile to common sense fiscal conservative small gov't ideals - which had never been done before in a reasonable and respected fashion -for the general public's consideration and the popularity of his views has given confidence for other conservative minded political candidates "to come out." Also, Ron Paul was able to keep his political seat as Congressman to continue to represent his constituency's interests in DC and to speak out to Americans at large about the wasteful and perfidious legislation being promoted. Without his insider's voice who else is there in Congress who would fill RP's role as DC's good conscience?

Bump this.

Lod  posted on  2009-11-03 19:09:36 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#132. To: scrapper2 (#130)

But then you say after being shocked at the support, he should have jumped ship and run as a Third Party Pres candidate. Wow! That's a tall order for a humble 74 year old obgyn turned Congressman from Texas

He's 74 going on 60. He looks fit and trim, and if McCain at 70? garnered 48% as a surviving cancer victim, Sir Paul could have done 12-15% as an Independent. Winning was never in my calculation with Paul but a permanent movement was, and it could have been. I'd like to know one thing RP has in common with today's Republican party. For the life of me I can't think of any. If he's there for the ease of ballot access alone, he isn't the man many think/thought he was. The real sad part about the entire Paul affair for me was watching well meaning people give him their precious little money and time, while I knew the establishment (read GOP/DNC) would never put forward a man with his convictions. I'll never believe a man with his political acumen didn't realize that either. Those that know me best will tell you I saw the RP effort for what it was; he was never, ever going to be selected as the GOP nominee. Last year's fisaco was about him, not the nation. In that respect, Paul was the dreamer, not me.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2009-11-03 19:15:49 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#136. To: scrapper2 (#130)

Bravo Scrapper!! Nicely stated.

abraxas  posted on  2009-11-03 19:57:58 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 130.

TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest


[Home]  [Headlines]  [Latest Articles]  [Latest Comments]  [Post]  [Sign-in]  [Mail]  [Setup]  [Help]