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Resistance
See other Resistance Articles

Title: URGENT Save on-line cigarettes, Call your Senator Now
Source: CD2U
URL Source: http://www.cd2u.org/email.html
Published: Nov 4, 2009
Author: CD2U
Post Date: 2009-11-04 12:17:04 by palo verde
Keywords: None
Views: 913
Comments: 120

By making all cigarettes nonmailable, the Senate is ensuring you will no longer be able to purchase these products by mail-order, telephone order, or over the Internet because the United States Postal Service, along with UPS, Fed-Ex and all other carriers, will be prohibited by law from delivering your orders to you.

*** URGENT - PLEASE CALL BEFORE THURSDAY ***

*** The US Senate committee will be voting this week ***

Your Senators will be voting shortly to make ALL TOBACCO PRODUCTS NON-MAILABLE!!!

WE NEED YOUR HELP TO TELL YOUR SENATORS NOT TO PASS THIS BILL !!!

(This has ALREADY BEEN PASSED in the House of Representatives !!!)

Please contact BOTH your Senators by phone, email, or regular mail.
(We have provided all of their contact information below.)

(You do NOT have to identify yourself as a smoker.)

HOW TO CONTACT YOUR SENATORS:

TELEPHONE: You can directly dial your Senators office using the number shown for them below, or you can dial 1-800-828-0498 (this is a toll-free number) to be connected with a Capitol Switchboard Operator. Simply ask the Operator to connect you with your Senators Office.

Time is crucial at this point, so a phone call is by far the best choice for contacting your Senators.

EMAIL: Simply go to each of your two Senators websites shown above and find the Senators contact form. Fill in the required information, type your message and click the "Send" button.

REGULAR MAIL: Send a letter to your Senator at their LOCAL offices nearest you. You can find the addresses for local offices on the Senators' websites or by looking in your telephone book's government section. It is important that you send your letter to your Senators' local office since mail often takes months to reach a Senator's Washington, DC office due to increased security at the Capitol.

EVERY TELEPHONE CALL, EMAIL AND LETTER MAKES A DIFFERENCE.

YOUR SENATORS NEED TO HEAR FROM YOU ON THIS IMPORTANT ISSUE!

THE SITUATION: Right now there is legislation pending in the United States Senate - the Prevent All Cigarette Trafficking Act of 2009 ("PACT Act") (S.1147) which contains, among other bad ideas, a provision to make ALL cigarettes and smokeless tobacco products nonmailable. This legislation has already been passed by the House of Representatives and is currently in a Senate Committee that could send it to the Senate floor at any time for a vote!

WHAT THIS MEANS TO YOU: By making all cigarettes and smokeless tobacco products nonmailable, the Senate is ensuring you will no longer be able to purchase these products by mail-order, telephone order, or over the Internet because the United States Postal Service, along with UPS, Fed-Ex and all other carriers, will be prohibited by law from delivering your orders to you. Taking away your options means forcing you back to buying over-priced tobacco products from your local retailer once again.

WHY WE NEED YOUR HELP: Native American cigarette and tobacco sellers are committed to doing everything we can to stop the PACT Act, but we need your help. Your Senators work for you and as their constituents, it is your voice and your vote that counts!

WHAT YOU CAN DO: Contact your Senators and tell them not to pass the PACT Act. Your Senators should be protecting your interests, but it is up to you to let them know what you think about the PACT Act. There are three easy ways to contact your Senators - by telephone, email, or regular mail - all of which are explained below. Every state has two Senators - please remember to contact BOTH Senators for your state. At this point time is crucial, so a phone call is by far the best means to use.

YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO EXPRESS YOUR OPINION: As an American Citizen, it is your right to let your Senators know how you feel about any action Congress takes. You elected your Senators to represent you and they can only do this if you tell them what you want. When you contact your Senator you do not need to identify yourself as a smoker or as someone who purchases cigarettes and/or smokeless tobacco products by mail-order, telephone-order, and/or the Internet. You only need to identify yourself as a resident of the state they represent.

SOME CONCERNS ABOUT THE PACT ACT TO DISCUSS WITH YOUR SENATORS:

THE POSTAL SERVICE: The price of stamps is being raised practically every year. The PACT Act will take an entire class of legal, non-hazardous goods and make them nonmailable. What this means is a huge loss of business (potentially hundreds of millions of dollars) for the Postal Service. Will they continue to raise the price of stamps and other mail services to compensate for their lost income? The United States Postal Service is already suffering a fiscal crisis due to the downturn in the economy. If the PACT Act is passed and millions of dollars of revenue are taken away, there could be serious consequences for consumers, including reducing the number of delivery days from 6 per week down to 5 or perhaps only 4 days per week.

COST: When the PACT Act of 2003 (S.1177) passed the Senate, the Congressional Budget Office prepared a Cost Estimate for the Bill. The Congressional Budget Office estimated that the PACT Act of 2003 would cost about $140 MILLION over the 2004-2008 period to enforce. $140 Million over four years - and that estimate is already six years old. How much will the PACT Act of 2009 cost to enforce? Isn't there a better way to spend our tax dollars?

IMPORTANT THINGS TO REMEMBER WHEN COMMUNICATING WITH YOUR SENATORS:

1. Tell your Senators that you are one of their constituents and provide an address so they know where in the state you are from. Since anyone can contact a Senator, it is important that you let your Senators know that you live and vote in their home state. Because the Senators receive so much mail, mail from their constituents always takes priority.

2. Make it clear to your Senators that you DO NOT want them to pass the PACT Act of 2009 (S.1147). Let your Senators know that if they don't support you - you won't support them.

3. This bill presents undue hardship to many smokers who are older, and shut-in with limited mobility. It is unfair to prevent them from ordering tobacco products through home delivery.

4. This bill represents discriminatory pricing as the majority of smokers are lower-income, many on a fixed income. It is discriminatory to force them to pay higher prices.

5. This bill represents discriminatory taxation as smokers were forced to pay an additional increase of more than $7 a carton in new federal taxes earlier this year.

6. This bill represents unlawful double-taxation as Internet and mail-order retailers are already collecting and paying federal and state excise taxes in the state where the tobacco is purchased.

7. This bill represents discriminatory restriction of trade towards smokers as all other lawful products can be purchased through the mail-order and through the Internet. Let your Senators know that if they don't support you - you won't support them.

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#1. To: All (#0)

CONTACT YOUR UNITED STATES SENATORS

State

Senator

Phone

Website

Alaska

Lisa Murkowski

202-224-6665

http://murkowski.senate.gov/

Alaska

Mark Begich

202-224-3004

http://begich.senate.gov

Alabama

Richard Shelby

202-224-5744

http://shelby.senate.gov/

Alabama

Jeff Sessions

202-224-4124

http://sessions.senate.gov/

Arkansas

Blanche Lincoln

202-224-4843

http://lincoln.senate.gov/

Arkansas

Mark Pryor

202-224-2353

http://pryor.senate.gov/

Arizona

John McCain

202-224-2235

http://mccain.senate.gov/

Arizona

Jon Kyl

202-224-4521

http://kyl.senate.gov/

California

Dianne Feinstein

202-224-3841

http://feinstein.senate.gov/

California

Barbara Boxer

202-224-3553

http://boxer.senate.gov/

Colorado

Mark Udall

202-224-5941

http://markudall.senate.gov

Colorado

Michael Bennet

202-224-5852

http://bennet.senate.gov/

Connecticut

Christopher Dodd

202-224-2823

http://dodd.senate.gov/

Connecticut

Joseph Lieberman

202-224-4041

http://lieberman.senate.gov/

Delaware

Thomas Carper

202-224-2441

http://carper.senate.gov/

Delaware

Ted Kaufman

202-224-5042

http://kaufman.senate.gov/

Florida

Bill Nelson

202-224-5274

http://billnelson.senate.gov/

Florida

Mel Martinez

202-224-3041

http://martinez.senate.gov/

Georgia

Saxby Chambliss

202-224-3521

http://chambliss.senate.gov/

Georgia

Johnny Isakson

202-224-3643

http://isakson.senate.gov/

Hawaii

Daniel Inouye

202-224-3934

http://inouye.senate.gov/

Hawaii

Daniel Akaka

202-224-6361

http://akaka.senate.gov/

Iowa

Charles Grassley

202-224-3744

http://grassley.senate.gov/

Iowa

Tom Harkin

202-224-3254

http://harkin.senate.gov/

Idaho

Mike Crapo

202-224-6142

http://crapo.senate.gov/

Idaho

Jim Risch

202-224-2752

http://risch.senate.gov/

Illinois

Richard Durbin

202-224-2152

http://durbin.senate.gov/

Illinois

Roland Burris

202-224-2854

http://burris.senate.gov/

Indiana

Richard Lugar

202-224-4814

http://lugar.senate.gov/

Indiana

Evan Bayh

202-224-5623

http://bayh.senate.gov/

Kansas

Sam Brownback

202-224-6521

http://brownback.senate.gov/

Kansas

Pat Roberts

202-224-4774

http://roberts.senate.gov/

Kentucky

Mitch McConnell

202-224-2541

http://mcconnell.senate.gov/

Kentucky

Jim Bunning

202-224-4343

http://bunning.senate.gov/

Louisiana

Mary Landrieu

202-224-5824

http://landrieu.senate.gov/

Louisiana

David Vitter

202-224-4623

http://vitter.senate.gov/

Massachusetts

Edward Kennedy

202-224-4543

http://kennedy.senate.gov/

Massachusetts

John Kerry

202-224-2742

http://kerry.senate.gov/

Maryland

Barbara Mikulski

202-224-4654

http://mikulski.senate.gov/

Maryland

Benjamin Cardin

202-224-4524

http://cardin.senate.gov/

Maine

Olympia Snowe

202-224-5344

http://snowe.senate.gov/

Maine

Susan Collins

202-224-2523

http://collins.senate.gov/

Michigan

Carl Levin

202-224-6221

http://levin.senate.gov/

Michigan

Debbie Stabenow

202-224-4822

http://stabenow.senate.gov/

Minnesota

Amy Klobuchar

202-224-3244

http://klobuchar.senate.gov/

Missouri

Kit Bond

202-224-5721

http://bond.senate.gov/

Missouri

Claire McCaskill

202-224-6154

http://mccaskill.senate.gov/

Mississippi

Thad Cochran

202-224-5054

http://cochran.senate.gov/

Mississippi

Roger Wicker

202-224-6253

http://wicker.senate.gov/

Montana

Max Baucus

202-224-2651

http://baucus.senate.gov/

Montana

Jon Tester

202-224-2644

http://tester.senate.gov/

North Carolina

Richard Burr

202-224-3154

http://burr.senate.gov/

North Carolina

Kay Hagan

202-224-6342

http://hagan.senate.gov/

North Dakota

Kent Conrad

202-224-2043

http://conrad.senate.gov/

North Dakota

Byron Dorgan

202-224-2551

http://dorgan.senate.gov/

Nebraska

Ben Nelson

202-224-6551

http://bennelson.senate.gov/

Nebraska

Mike Johanns

202-224-4224

http://johanns.senate.gov/

New Hampshire

Judd Gregg

202-224-3324

http://gregg.senate.gov/

New Hampshire

Jeanne Shaheen

202-224-2841

http://shaheen.senate.gov/

New Jersey

Frank Lautenberg

202-224-3224

http://lautenberg.senate.gov/

New Jersey

Robert Menendez

202-224-4744

http://menendez.senate.gov/

New Mexico

Jeff Bingaman

202-224-5521

http://bingaman.senate.gov/

New Mexico

Tom Udall

202-224-6621

http://tomudall.senate.gov/

Nevada

Harry Reid

202-224-3542

http://reid.senate.gov/

Nevada

John Ensign

202-224-6244

http://ensign.senate.gov/

New York

Charles Schumer

202-224-6542

http://schumer.senate.gov/

New York

Kirsten Gillibrand

202-224-4451

http://gillibrand.senate.gov/

Ohio

George Voinovich

202-224-3353

http://voinovich.senate.gov/

Ohio

Sherrod Brown

202-224-2315

http://brown.senate.gov/

Oklahoma

James Inhofe

202-224-4721

http://inhofe.senate.gov/

Oklahoma

Tom Coburn

202-224-5754

http://coburn.senate.gov/

Oregon

Ron Wyden

202-224-5244

http://wyden.senate.gov/

Oregon

Jeff Merkley

202-224-3753

http://merkley.senate.gov/

Pennsylvania

Arlen Specter

202-224-4254

http://specter.senate.gov/

Pennsylvania

Robert Casey

202-224-6324

http://casey.senate.gov/

Rhode Island

Jack Reed

202-224-4642

http://reed.senate.gov/

Rhode Island

Sheldon Whitehouse

202-224-2921

http://whitehouse.senate.gov/

South Carolina

Lindsey Graham

202-224-5972

http://lgraham.senate.gov/

South Carolina

James DeMint

202-224-6121

http://demint.senate.gov/

South Dakota

Tim Johnson

202-224-5842

http://johnson.senate.gov/

South Dakota

John Thune

202-224-2321

http://thune.senate.gov/

Tennessee

Lamar Alexander

202-224-4944

http://alexander.senate.gov/

Tennessee

Bob Corker

202-224-3344

http://corker.senate.gov/

Texas

Kay Hutchison

202-224-5922

http://hutchison.senate.gov/

Texas

John Cornyn

202-224-2934

http://cornyn.senate.gov/

Utah

Orrin Hatch

202-224-5251

http://hatch.senate.gov/

Utah

Robert Bennett

202-224-5444

http://bennett.senate.gov/

Virginia

James Webb

202-224-4024

http://webb.senate.gov/

Virginia

Mark Warner

202-224-2023

http://warner.senate.gov/

Vermont

Patrick Leahy

202-224-4242

http://leahy.senate.gov/

Vermont

Bernie Sanders

202-224-5141

http://sanders.senate.gov/

Washington

Patty Murray

202-224-2621

http://murray.senate.gov/

Washington

Maria Cantwell

202-224-3441

http://cantwell.senate.gov/

Wisconsin

Herb Kohl

202-224-5653

http://kohl.senate.gov/

Wisconsin

Russell Feingold

202-224-5323

http://feingold.senate.gov/

West Virginia

Robert Byrd

202-224-3954

http://byrd.senate.gov/

West Virginia

John Rockefeller

202-224-6472

http://rockefeller.senate.gov/

Wyoming

Michael Enzi

202-224-3424

http://enzi.senate.gov/

Wyoming

John Barrasso

202-224-6441

http://barrasso.senate.gov/

 

 

palo verde  posted on  2009-11-04   12:22:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: christine, noone222, Kamala, TwentyTwelve, Wudidiz, CadetD, farmfriend, randge, Esso, abraxas, ratcat, Jethro Tull, IndieTX, HOUNDDAWG, phantom patriot, James Deffenbach, Mr Nuke Buzzcut, all (#0)

How do you boil a frog? Slowly.

This is a good example of the Hegelian Dialectic at play.

Problem

Reaction

Solution.

Problem: Tobacco taxes have been raised to the point where people are seeking all legal means to minimize them.

Reaction: Smokers go mail order to the lowest cost supplier.

Solution: Increase the restrictions on tobacco availability.

And don't forget - setting there in the background is the new authority, not yet exercised, granted the FDA to regulate tobacco.

I think the overall plan and intent should at this point be clear: Tobacco for some unstated reason is being used as a vehicle to increase the level of tyrannical control and because it has some affect our would-be masters do not like.

I still think that at least in part it is because smokers do not use anti-depressants at the level used by non-smokers.

There are likely other reasons, but one thing you can be sure of the health and well being of the American People is NOT one of them - all PR to the contrary.

"An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you know and what you don't. ~ Anatole France

Original_Intent  posted on  2009-11-04   14:18:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Original_Intent (#2)

I still think that at least in part it is because smokers do not use anti-depressants at the level used by non-smokers.

They are against self medication in all its forms.


"Greenhouse gases do not act as a blanket around the earth and they do not keep the atmosphere warm. ... greenhouse gases emit more radiation than they absorb and this ongoing radiation loss tends to cool the atmosphere at between 1C and 2C per day, a fact known for more than 50 years. And yet we continue to get the simplistic explanation that greenhouse gases warm the atmosphere and so more greenhouse gases will warm the atmosphere more. No wonder the public is taken in!" --William Kininmonth, meteorologist , 1791

farmfriend  posted on  2009-11-04   14:26:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: farmfriend (#3)

I still think that at least in part it is because smokers do not use anti-depressants at the level used by non-smokers.

They are against self medication in all its forms.

Unless of course the elite profit from it in some way. Anti-depressants are the most profitable category of drug marketed by Big Pharma. The profits are in the billions, with a "B", per year.

As well tobacco seems to have a prophylactic effect minimizing some types of disorders such as Alzheimer's Disease.

There is a hidden agenda at play on the tobacco issue and I do not pretend to know all of it, but I can look at the evidence, the behaviors and actions, and deduce its existence.

"An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you know and what you don't. ~ Anatole France

Original_Intent  posted on  2009-11-04   14:40:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: palo verde (#0) (Edited)

Honestly, with all the things to call congress about this one ranks at the very bottom of the to do list. If I were president, king, supreme ruler, whatever you want to call it these days, you would really like me, I would outlaw all cigarettes.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2009-11-04   20:22:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Original_Intent (#2)

I still think that at least in part it is because smokers do not use anti-depressants at the level used by non-smokers.

I kind of doubt this. If anything smokers probably take more anti-depressants than non-smokers.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2009-11-04   20:27:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: palo verde (#0)

4. This bill represents discriminatory pricing as the majority of smokers are lower-income, many on a fixed income.

Think about this one for a while.

Do you think just maybe that the majority of smokers might have a low-income because they smoke and the health problems it causes?

Do you know the executives of tobacco companies don't smoke?

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2009-11-04   20:33:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: RickyJ (#6)

Actually - I was reading about it around 6 months to a year ago and smokers DO use anti-depressants at a statistically significant rate less than non-smokers. They also have a lower rate of Alzheimer's and remain mentally active and alert later in life than non-smokers. The most recent I read on it was in the "Daily Dose" Newsletter put out by Dr. William Campbell Douglass. Not that there are not health concerns but there is an old saw to the effect that a poison depends upon the dose. Smoking is a stress reliever and if you get too wound up it gives you something to do to relax. A nice Cigar, my Pipe, or a cigarette help me to smooth the rattled nerves, and I am sure that holds true for others.

"An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you know and what you don't. ~ Anatole France

Original_Intent  posted on  2009-11-04   20:45:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Original_Intent. all (#8)

The most recent I read on it was in the "Daily Dose" Newsletter put out by Dr. William Campbell Douglass. Not that there are not health concerns but there is an old saw to the effect that a poison depends upon the dose. Smoking is a stress reliever and if you get too wound up it gives you something to do to relax. A nice Cigar, my Pipe, or a cigarette help me to smooth the rattled nerves, and I am sure that holds true for others.

Amen to all of the above.

If you got'em, smoke'em.

Lod  posted on  2009-11-04   20:50:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: RickyJ, palo verde, Original_Intent, farmfriend (#5) (Edited)

If I were president, king, supreme ruler, whatever you want to call it these days, you would really like me, I would outlaw all cigarettes.

I'm with you, Supreme Leader Ricky J.

And I'd add to your no-no list. No cigarettes for smokers, no food for fatties, no booze for drinkers, no sex for heart disease patients, etc etc

If the Dem Party socialists are successful in ramming through their costly Utopian universal health care plan, as a middle class income tax payer, I want to reduce the unhealthy and risky behavior of the rubes whose health care expenses the middle class worker bees will be on the hook for paying.

scrapper2  posted on  2009-11-04   20:58:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: scrapper2, RickyJ, palo verde, farmfriend, all (#10)

Sieg Heil!

Sieg Heil!

Sieg Heil!

"An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you know and what you don't. ~ Anatole France

Original_Intent  posted on  2009-11-04   21:06:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Original_Intent. all (#11)

Sieg Heil!

Sieg Heil!

Sieg Heil!

No Shiite!

Lod  posted on  2009-11-04   22:14:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Original_Intent (#2)

Thanks for the ping OI I wish I had gotten here earlier.

"What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that its people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms....The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson

phantom patriot  posted on  2009-11-05   9:51:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: RickyJ, All (#5)

Honestly, with all the things to call congress about this one ranks at the very bottom of the to do list. If I were president, king, supreme ruler, whatever you want to call it these days, you would really like me, I would outlaw all cigarettes.

Some folks sure do have a strange understanding of the words FREEDOM, and LIBERTY.

"What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that its people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms....The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson

phantom patriot  posted on  2009-11-05   9:54:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: palo verde (#0)

"We don't smoke this shit. We just sell it. We reserve the right to smoke for the young, the poor, the black and the stupid." Dave Goerlitz, former model who appeared in Winston cigarette advertisements, recounting the comments of a tobacco industry executive.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2009-11-05   10:16:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: phantom patriot (#14)

Hey, smokers cost more than they are worth. Sorry, but they are a complete and total drain on society. If they could smoke without it affecting others financially or health wise than I wouldn't mind them smoking their lives away. But that is not the case and you know it isn't.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2009-11-05   10:26:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: RickyJ (#5)

If I were president, king, supreme ruler, whatever you want to call it these days, you would really like me, I would outlaw all cigarettes.

What a nanny stater!!! Guns next on your agenda? No second amendment for the serfs? Maybe potato chips and chocolate and sodas? Install the food police to patrol the masses. Keep them in line with YOUR ideas about what's good for all.

You do realize this has already been attempted with alcohol, don't you? Yeah, prohibition was just so darn good for ALL. So darn effective we should try it with cigarettes any other product you deem unfit for consumption.

abraxas  posted on  2009-11-05   10:28:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: phantom patriot (#13)

You are most welcome.

"An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you know and what you don't. ~ Anatole France

Original_Intent  posted on  2009-11-05   10:36:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: RickyJ (#16)

Hey, smokers cost more than they are worth. Sorry, but they are a complete and total drain on society. If they could smoke without it affecting others financially or health wise than I wouldn't mind them smoking their lives away. But that is not the case and you know it isn't.

In my America it is.

"What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that its people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms....The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson

phantom patriot  posted on  2009-11-05   10:45:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: palo verde (#0)

This must be part of that free market, "laissez-faire" capitalist system those on the left claim we have.

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976

The purpose of the legal system is to protect the elites from the wrath of those they plunder.- Elliott Jackalope

"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat

F.A. Hayek Fan  posted on  2009-11-05   10:46:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: Lod, Original_Intent (#12)

Sieg Heil!

No Shiite!

You guys do know I was kidding right?

scrapper2  posted on  2009-11-05   10:48:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: scrapper2 (#21)

We hope. ;-)

Lod  posted on  2009-11-05   10:50:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: abraxas, RickyJ (#17)

What a nanny stater!!!

Most surprising. I thought I'd seen posts where he was espousing LIBERTY.

I have to get a copy of this translation book others keep refering to. Maybe I'll understand the language cause it aint english.

"What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that its people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms....The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson

phantom patriot  posted on  2009-11-05   10:51:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: RickyJ (#16)

I can't recall a time when a smoker cost me money involuntarily. Not one time.

Your argument is going to be fronted, once they pass Marxist Health Care, to disarm us.

MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.

SonOfLiberty  posted on  2009-11-05   10:57:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: Original_Intent (#2)

I think the overall plan and intent should at this point be clear: Tobacco for some unstated reason is being used as a vehicle to increase the level of tyrannical control

The criminal class in DC has to keep feeding the Prison-Congressional Complex. They also need ever new ways to fund their black ops. What better way than to continue regulating until they can outright make tobacco illegal. Then they can jail tobacco users and growers just like they do other illegal drugs while at the same time smuggle tobacco into the country via the black market and make 1000x the profit they would make as a legal substance. The same exact thing they do with illegal drugs today.

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976

The purpose of the legal system is to protect the elites from the wrath of those they plunder.- Elliott Jackalope

"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat

F.A. Hayek Fan  posted on  2009-11-05   10:58:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: Lod, Ricky J (#22) (Edited)

We hope. ;-)

Ha!

OTOH, I agree with Ricky J. I'm not phoning Congress on this issue. My uncle died of lung cancer. It's a horrible disease to see someone die from. I'm not about to load a pistol for a suicider. Smokers are not having cigarettes removed from the market place, correct? So they still have freedom and liberty to buy cigarettes. They just need to buy them at a store, not online. I like a certain brand of clothes that are not offered online so I need to get in my car and buy that brand at a store - less convenient, but not a major freedom damper.

scrapper2  posted on  2009-11-05   11:05:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: RickyJ, phantom patriot, Lod, Scrapper2, farmfriend, palo verde, Hayek Fan, all (#16)

Hey, smokers cost more than they are worth. Sorry, but they are a complete and total drain on society. If they could smoke without it affecting others financially or health wise than I wouldn't mind them smoking their lives away. But that is not the case and you know it isn't.

Attaboy!

Regurgitate the propaganda without bothering to actually investigate. Show us your prejudices and repeat the mantra again - "the lying mainstream press that tells us that Vioxx, aspartame, and anti-depressants are good for us has spoken. Tobacco bad! Smokers bad! They should be put in Kamps and made pariahs because they don't use enough of Big Pharma's most profitable products. Why it's unpatriotic is what it is.

Riddle me this Batman?

Japan has DOUBLE the rate of adult smoking of the United States per capita. Japan has HALF the rate of HEART DISEASE. France has a higher rate of smoking and a much lower rate of HEART DISEASE.

Gosh Batman does that mean that there are other factors, like diet, that are being ignored while blaming it all on smoking?

To go easy on you I used to believe the propaganda myself, to some degree, until the contrary evidence began accumulating.

Yes there are some negative effects created by smoking - mostly reduced lung capacity and the possibility of emphysema (Lung Cancer often used as one of the bogeymen is only marginally higher among smokers than non-smokers - there is an increased risk but it is not the universal cause as the propaganda has led people to misbelieve). However, none of the studies which have purported to assign all these negative effects have controlled for other key factors which become more and more apparent as the evidence accumulates such as the chemicals added to commercial cigarettes and the material used for the filters. While there is more than one factor given short shrift diet seems to be the biggest and the average American diet rich in junk, fat, chemicals, and starches while being short on leafy greens, legumes, and phytochemicals is never taken into account in any of the studies purporting to show negative correlations. Due to pressure from alternative practicioners and a growing awareness even in the AMA controlled community it is gradually gaining more attention, BUT Big Food, working with your "good friend" the FDA has also helped to minimize and suppress the information and conclusions because there is little profit in it for Big Pharma if people began to eat a healthier diet and rates of disease went down because of it. Just as the 20 year study done by WHO in Europe, which showed "second hand smoke" as having a prophylactic affect on those exposed, was suppressed, buried, and never released except for the few snippets that leaked out.

So, you may parrot the slanted, distorted, and inaccurate information paraded by the Lamestream media or you may actually examine the evidence and inform yourself beyond regurgitating propaganda. Oh, and do you think cholesterol causes heart disease too?

"An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you know and what you don't. ~ Anatole France

Original_Intent  posted on  2009-11-05   11:07:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: RickyJ (#16)

Hey, smokers cost more than they are worth

Balony!! Across this nation SIN TAX on cigs pays for all sorts of social programs for nanny staters.

That massive winfall from the tobacco industry is paying for kids to go to college, paying for state medical freebies and all sorts of lame "prevention" programs that are about as successful as DARE or Just Say No.

Smokers generally die sooner and don't require any additional costs after death. Multitudes of non smokers can live decades in old folks homes. I visit a gal who is 90 years old everyweek. She has no idea what is going on, very little quality of life, but she never did smoke. I've been with her on hospice for two years now. Do you have any idea what that kind of care costs?

abraxas  posted on  2009-11-05   11:08:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: phantom patriot, RickyJ (#23)

Most surprising. I thought I'd seen posts where he was espousing LIBERTY.

Yes, I thought so too. I recall discussing the finer points of LIBERTY and FREEDOM on more than one occassion.

I wonder, will he be for the lot of us paying more taxes when there is no more sin tax to collect from cigs? Several dollars from every pack go to pay for all sorts of things that nanny state deems necessary. And shall we all throw more tax dollars at ENFORCEMENT for a newly minted Gistapo to patrol the streets of this nation for cigs, smokers and criminal gangs bringing the masses their fix?

abraxas  posted on  2009-11-05   11:13:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: palo verde (#0)

Thanks palo! Did my part but it's Md. not sure what good it will do.

"What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that its people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms....The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson

phantom patriot  posted on  2009-11-05   11:14:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: scrapper2 (#26)

I'm not about to load a pistol for a suicider.

When I was little the time I most treasure with my grandpa was making cigs and bullets. He had this little machine that put the filter on and I would load the St. Alberts in the paper. We spent hours while he made bullets and I made his cigs.

Yes, he did die of lung cancer. However, we would not had such good times had he not smoked or loved to shoot black powder. He liked kids to be useful and you had to enjoy the activities he picked to have any fun. I don't feel that I contributed to his death, but rather to his life. He would found some other grandkid to make the smokes if I opted out.

abraxas  posted on  2009-11-05   11:19:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: abraxas (#29)

I wonder, will he be for the lot of us paying more taxes when there is no more sin tax to collect from cigs? Several dollars from every pack go to pay for all sorts of things that nanny state deems necessary. And shall we all throw more tax dollars at ENFORCEMENT for a newly minted Gistapo to patrol the streets of this nation for cigs, smokers and criminal gangs bringing the masses their fix?

He and many others have no idea what they are inviting.

I hope he realizes LIBERTY lost, will not be regained easily.

"What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that its people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms....The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson

phantom patriot  posted on  2009-11-05   11:19:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: RickyJ (#16) (Edited)

Sorry, but they are a complete and total drain on society.

There are a lot of complete and total drains on society. When will you and your ilk begin going after them?

If they could smoke without it affecting others financially or health wise than I wouldn't mind them smoking their lives away. But that is not the case and you know it isn't.

The senior citizen population is much more of a drain on society financially and health wise. So are the obese? When do we begin offing them in order to save you money? It sounds like you should apply for the Obama death panels. You'd fit right in.

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976

The purpose of the legal system is to protect the elites from the wrath of those they plunder.- Elliott Jackalope

"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat

F.A. Hayek Fan  posted on  2009-11-05   11:20:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: abraxas, phantom patriot, Ricky J (#29) (Edited)

Most surprising. I thought I'd seen posts where he was espousing LIBERTY.

Yes, I thought so too. I recall discussing the finer points of LIBERTY and FREEDOM on more than one occassion.

Sorry, but I'm not "getting" the Paul Revere vibes emoting from this issue that you seem to be feeling.

Smokers have the freedom to buy cigarettes in a stand up store, correct?

So how does online cigarette buying being removed as an option take away smokers' freedom and liberty when 24 hour convenience stores, grocery stores, still sell cigarettes?

Can you buy everything your heart desires online? I sure can't. So is our freedom and liberty under assault because we can't buy everything online but need to go to a stand up store?

scrapper2  posted on  2009-11-05   11:26:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: Original_Intent, RickyJ (#27)

So, you may parrot the slanted, distorted, and inaccurate information paraded by the Lamestream media or you may actually examine the evidence and inform yourself beyond regurgitating propaganda. Oh, and do you think cholesterol causes heart disease too?

Give em what for OI. My Granny lived to be 98. She smoked and we had fat back for breakfast every morn. Of course this was country fresh.

Splain dat Lucy errr Ricky!

"What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that its people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms....The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson

phantom patriot  posted on  2009-11-05   11:27:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: scrapper2 (#34)

Smokers have the freedom to buy cigarettes in a stand up store, correct?

So how does online cigarette buying being removed as an option take away smokers' freedom and liberty when 24 hour convenience stores, grocery stores, still sell cigarettes?

Because the option is being removed by government. People have the right to engage in peaceful trade as they wish. Government interference in any market mechanism that peddles legal, peaceful products is an infringement of liberty on the seller, as well as the customers who use that mechanism. The liberty in question being the right to association (via peaceful trade) being infringed.

Can you buy everything your heart desires online? I sure can't. So is our freedom and liberty under assault because we can't buy everything online but need to go to a stand up store?

What you can't buy, you presumably can't buy because no vendor has thought to offer the product online. That's not a loss of liberty, nobody is standing outside as a third party between you and the producer of your favorite products saying "THOU SHALL NOT!". It's only that third party that causes the infringement, sort of definitionally.

All of this said, I think we all have much bigger fish to fry right now than online cigarettes. We're about to have our economy and remaining macro liberties swallowed wholesale, while we're ditering on the fringes.

MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.

SonOfLiberty  posted on  2009-11-05   11:31:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: scrapper2 (#34)

Smokers have the freedom to buy cigarettes in a stand up store, correct?

Yes, What is your point? There is more choice online. Tobacco that is natural and not tainted with chems. I'll bet every store will stock up on those now.

Also by buying the products individually and not manufactured we have until now been able to avoid some taxes.

All of this is really moot. They are going to create another black market that they will consider us criminals but behind the scene make profit upon.

"What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that its people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms....The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson

phantom patriot  posted on  2009-11-05   11:35:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: SonOfLiberty, Ricky J (#36)

All of this said, I think we all have much bigger fish to fry right now than online cigarettes. We're about to have our economy and remaining macro liberties swallowed wholesale, while we're ditering on the fringes.

Well said.

And I recall Ricky J making a similar observation in msg. #5.

scrapper2  posted on  2009-11-05   11:36:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: scrapper2 (#34)

Smokers have the freedom to buy cigarettes in a stand up store, correct?

So how does online cigarette buying being removed as an option take away smokers' freedom and liberty when 24 hour convenience stores, grocery stores, still sell cigarettes?

Smokers should be the only group forced to pay state tax levied on a product when all other products could be purchased online for less?

Why should one product be held captive to state tax revenue schemes? Would you promote this for other products as well? If a tax on soda comes into effect, for instance, internet sales should be abolished for the greater good?

This is huge revenue for states:

Minnesota slapped an extra 75-cent charge on a pack of cigarettes because of budget problems two years ago. The state expects to collect about $451 million from smokers this year but is projecting a drop of about 1 percent a year, or $4 million to $5 million — and that is does not even take into account the potential effect of a statewide smoking ban.

California banned smoking in bars and restaurants in 1998 and raised its cigarette tax 50 cents a pack in 1999. Tobacco tax revenue boomed, then started to decline. It has leveled off at about $1 billion a year in the past few years, thanks to a crackdown on counterfeit tax stamps, said Anita Gore, a spokeswoman for California Board of Equalization.

What this plan does is hold smokers captive to states taxing smokers ad nauseum, which does take away from smokers' freedom and liberty to purchase a product at the best price under a FREE MARKET system.

abraxas  posted on  2009-11-05   11:38:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: scrapper2 (#34)

Sorry, but I'm not "getting" the Paul Revere vibes emoting from this issue that you seem to be feeling.

Smokers have the freedom to buy cigarettes in a stand up store, correct?

So by your logic, if the government removed the food supply from the free market and provided everything themselves, then we will have not lost any freedom because the items that we need/want are being provided.

Sorry. I disagree.

Whenever the government steps in and says "you can't do this" or "you can't do that" they they are taking away a freedom.

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976

The purpose of the legal system is to protect the elites from the wrath of those they plunder.- Elliott Jackalope

"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat

F.A. Hayek Fan  posted on  2009-11-05   11:39:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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