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Title: Obama: Jail Time for Those without Health Insurance
Source: ABC
URL Source: http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalp ... out-health-care-insurance.html
Published: Nov 10, 2009
Author: Sunlen Miller
Post Date: 2009-11-10 10:37:57 by noone222
Keywords: None
Views: 1338
Comments: 105

Political Punch Interview with the President: Jail Time for Those without Health Care Insurance? November 09, 2009 6:30 PM

During an exclusive interview with ABC News’ Jake Tapper today, President Obama said that penalties are appropriate for people who try to “free ride” the health care system but stopped short of endorsing the threat of jail time for those who refuse to pay a fine for not having insurance.

“What I think is appropriate is that in the same way that everybody has to get auto insurance and if you don't, you're subject to some penalty, that in this situation, if you have the ability to buy insurance, it's affordable and you choose not to do so, forcing you and me and everybody else to subsidize you, you know, there's a thousand dollar hidden tax that families all across America are -- are burdened by because of the fact that people don't have health insurance, you know, there's nothing wrong with a penalty.”

Under the House bill those who can afford to buy insurance and don’t’ pay a fine. If the refuse to pay that fine there’s a threat – as with a lot of tax fines – of jail time. The Senate removed that provision in the Senate Finance Committee.

Mr. Obama said penalties have to be high enough for people to not game the system, but it’s also important to not be “so punitive” that people who are having a hard time find themselves suddenly worse off, thus why hardship exemptions have been built in the legislation.

“I think the general broad principle is simply that people who are paying for their health insurance aren't subsidizing folks who simply choose not to until they get sick and then suddenly they expect free health insurance. That's -- that's basic concept of responsibility that I think most Americans abide by,” Mr. Obama said, “penalties are appropriate for people who try to free ride the system and force others to pay for their health insurance.”

The President said that he didn’t think the question over the appropriateness of possible jail time is the “biggest question” the House and Senate are facing right now.

Read more from Jake Tapper’s interview with President Obama HERE.

-Sunlen Miller

Poster Comment:

Comparing Health Insurance to Car Insurance implies that like driving, living is a "privilege" ...

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  

#1. To: noone222 (#0)

Nobody "Subsidizes" me.

In fact, it's funny how he uses the term Susbidizes when we the people have oh, I don't know, Subsidized AIG, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, GM, Chrysler, Goldman and Sachs, Cit, The Banking Industry Bailout....

Obama is nothing more than a talking monkey, whose monkey shines are as old and tired as the skin on George Soros' ass. I cannot find words foul enough to adequately describe the utter contempt I have for this subhuman.

Better to be hated for what you are, than loved for what you are not.

TommyTheMadArtist  posted on  2009-11-10   10:41:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

The U.S. empire has already subjected numerous Third World countries to the "living is a privilege" scenario, granted only if their rulers agree to be under the NWO thumb. Otherwise, it's "bombs away." Now this frame of mind is coming home. Karma's a bitch.

“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston

Sam Houston  posted on  2009-11-10   10:42:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Obama is nothing more than a talking monkey, whose monkey shines are as old and tired as the skin on George Soros' ass. I cannot find words foul enough to adequately describe the utter contempt I have for this subhuman.

Obama is nothing more than a talking monkey ... and I ain't listening !

SPAMerica, a nation of spineless, gutless, mindless, self-absorbed, internet litterbugs.

noone222  posted on  2009-11-10   10:54:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

More misinformation. There is no jail time if you do not buy health insurnace.

The jail time refers to fraud stipulations.

belmontconservative  posted on  2009-11-10   11:39:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

More misinformation. There is no jail time if you do not buy health insurnace.

Wrong answer.

If you do not buy health insurance, you are hit with a fine.

If you do not (or cannot) pay the fine, you go to jail.

COMRADE! Why are you not showing your Party affiliation and showing proper respect for Dear Leader? Put your Barackstika armband on RIGHT NOW!

mirage  posted on  2009-11-10   12:41:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

If you do not (or cannot) pay the fine, you go to jail.

Paste a link to the actual section of the bill that say's that.

belmontconservative  posted on  2009-11-10   12:56:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

President Obama said that penalties are appropriate for people who try to “free ride” the health care system but stopped short of endorsing the threat of jail time for those who refuse to pay a fine for not having insurance.

As already pointed out, but to underscore it, comparing health insurance to auto insurance is a false simile. This IS one of the Logical Fallacies our political elite routinely use to sell their usual load of .....

Auto Insurance is required for L-I-A-B-I-L-I-T-Y for the other driver and passengers not for the driver per se.

Requiring someone to purchase an elective product, a product they may not need or want, is not at all the same fettle of kish. This is merely a marketing ploy to sell the idea to the weak minded who already are in favor of Nationalized Hellthcare - which again is designed to benefit those providing the care and selling the obscenely marked-up Pharmaceuticals not the patient.

"An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you know and what you don't. ~ Anatole France

Original_Intent  posted on  2009-11-10   13:06:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Since they are tying being uninsured to a higher tax penalty, then there's more to consider than jail time. The IRS also garnishes wages, imposes additional penalties and interest, and seizes homes, cars and businesses. Those things can destroy lives at least as much as going to jail, and often much more so.

"Mandatory insurance" is actually nationalization of health care in a slightly disguised form.

Hell, I really don't think this can pass a legal test if it gets through, though seeing how government torture has been declared inactionable as a rights violation, nothing that comes out of the USSC would now surprise me these days.

Pinguinite  posted on  2009-11-10   13:11:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

More misinformation. There is no jail time if you do not buy health insurnace.

The jail time refers to fraud stipulations.

Belmont, you are wrong.

Listen to the interview that is linked to by the url of the article in this thread. The subject comes up at 14:21 and continues through to 12:31 of the interview.

Obama is asked directly about the House bill's threat of jail time to ordinary folks like you and me, which fyi is the ultimate consequence for those who The State [based on info from the IRS] determines can afford to buy insurance and do not do so. After trying to dodge the question, Obumski confirms that is true and that he supports these penalties.

Here's the sequence of "penalties." First people are fined and if they refuse to pay the fine they go to jail.

scrapper2  posted on  2009-11-10   13:36:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Auto Insurance is required for L-I-A-B-I-L-I-T-Y for the other driver and passengers not for the driver per se.

OI. let's say you have no health insurnace and you have a $500,000 claim. and you just walk away from paying it i.e. declare bankruptcy.

I have to pay for your claim via higher premiums because the hospital charges the people with insurnace more money to make up for your loss. Just like shoplifters cause us all to pay higher prices at stores.

What's the difference with your example? I came back from a insurnace meeting and according to the stats if all people had insurance the premiums would drop by 35-40%

belmontconservative  posted on  2009-11-10   14:06:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Scrapper. I have seen how these sound bytes can be misconstrued. Paste a link to the actualal page in the bill that shows people will be put in jail for not having health insurance.

belmontconservative  posted on  2009-11-10   14:09:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Scrapper. I have seen how these sound bytes can be misconstrued. Paste a link to the actualal page in the bill that shows people will be put in jail for not having health insurance.

a. The interview with Obumski is NOT a sound byte - it's the entire interview of 18 minutes or whatever, which you would have known, if you had bothered to take the time to listen to it. This is important stuff that will have very big negative ramifications on all Americans, including yourself - I'm surprised that you are sitting on your hands and not looking into the subject yourself.

b. Here's the url that refers to the sections of the House bill that addresses fines and jail penalties for not buying insurance if you have the financial means to do so.

Btw, there's an embedded link at the following url to the JCT [Joint Committee on Taxation] stamped on gubment stationery letterhead letter. The House bill makes it a felony offense not to buy health insurance if you can afford it.

republicans.waysandmeans....le.aspx?DocumentID=153583

PELOSI: Buy a $15,000 Policy or Go to Jail

JCT Confirms Failure to Comply with Democrats’ Mandate Can Lead to 5 Years in Jail

Friday, November 06, 2009

Today, Ranking Member of the House Ways and Means Committee Dave Camp (R-MI) released a letter from the non-partisan Joint Committee on Taxation (JCT) confirming that the failure to comply with the individual mandate to buy health insurance contained in the Pelosi health care bill (H.R. 3962, as amended) could land people in jail. The JCT letter makes clear that Americans who do not maintain “acceptable health insurance coverage” and who choose not to pay the bill’s new individual mandate tax (generally 2.5% of income), are subject to numerous civil and criminal penalties, including criminal fines of up to $250,000 and imprisonment of up to five years.

In response to the JCT letter, Camp said: “This is the ultimate example of the Democrats’ command-and-control style of governing – buy what we tell you or go to jail. It is outrageous and it should be stopped immediately.”

Key excerpts from the JCT letter appear below:

“H.R. 3962 provides that an individual (or a husband and wife in the case of a joint return) who does not, at any time during the taxable year, maintain acceptable health insurance coverage for himself or herself and each of his or her qualifying children is subject to an additional tax.” [page 1]

- - - - - - - - - -

“If the government determines that the taxpayer’s unpaid tax liability results from willful behavior, the following penalties could apply…” [page 2]

- - - - - - - - - -

“Criminal penalties

Prosecution is authorized under the Code for a variety of offenses. Depending on the level of the noncompliance, the following penalties could apply to an individual:

• Section 7203 – misdemeanor willful failure to pay is punishable by a fine of up to $25,000 and/or imprisonment of up to one year.

• Section 7201 – felony willful evasion is punishable by a fine of up to $250,000 and/or imprisonment of up to five years.” [page 3]

When confronted with this same issue during its consideration of a similar individual mandate tax, the Senate Finance Committee worked on a bipartisan basis to include language in its bill that shielded Americans from civil and criminal penalties. The Pelosi bill, however, contains no similar language protecting American citizens from civil and criminal tax penalties that could include a $250,000 fine and five years in jail.

“The Senate Finance Committee had the good sense to eliminate the extreme penalty of incarceration. Speaker Pelosi’s decision to leave in the jail time provision is a threat to every family who cannot afford the $15,000 premium her plan creates. Fortunately, Republicans have an alternative that will lower health insurance costs without raising taxes or cutting Medicare,” said Camp.

According to the Congressional Budget Office the lowest cost family non-group plan under the Speaker’s bill would cost $15,000 in 2016.

scrapper2  posted on  2009-11-10   14:26:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

So, those who don't have the funds to purchase this gooberment health insurance are forced, against their will, to enroll in state social services programs, thus resulting in either the state or the feds having the "dope", health records, and financial info on every single citizen in this country. So, what happens next.? The states, who are all nearly bankrupt will be even more dependant on the gooberment for their survival.

sizzlerguy  posted on  2009-11-10   14:43:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

the feds having the "dope", health records, and financial info on every single citizen in this country. So, what happens next.?

To anyone who takes anti anxiety meds, psychotropics, etc, = good bye guns.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2009-11-10   14:46:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

next

Urine and blood tox tests on everyone, except the pigs and politicians.

sizzlerguy  posted on  2009-11-10   14:52:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Yes, that's probably how it will turn out in the end, more loss of privacy and higher taxes. We taxpayers will be on the hook for picking up the entire tab though, through increased fed taxes.

And btw, Obumski implied in the interview that claims of "hardship exemptions" before fines and jail time kick in will be looked at by the feds VERY CLOSELY ie. if your last name isn't gonzales you are out of luck

scrapper2  posted on  2009-11-10   14:54:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

ping

http://www.moola.com:80/moopubs/b2b/exc/join.jsp?sid=4d6a55744e5451354e7a673d-2

freepatriot32  posted on  2009-11-10   14:56:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

gonzales

It may be time to change our names, buy a tanning booth and some skin dye.

sizzlerguy  posted on  2009-11-10   14:58:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

It may be time to change our names, buy a tanning booth and some skin dye.

Seriously.

And any Anglo planning on getting accepted into med school post Obamacare implementation [ which btw rewards diversity in conjunction to health care delivery] - a legal name change now is sound first strategy.

scrapper2  posted on  2009-11-10   15:22:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

I came back from a insurnace meeting and according to the stats if all people had insurance the premiums would drop by 35-40%

Back in 1913, the original income tax used to be 1% of your yearly income for those making under $500,000 per year.

Don't you see that whatever rates are originally charged for healthcare, they won't stay that way for long?

Original Income Tax Form from 1913

FormerLurker  posted on  2009-11-10   15:35:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Back in 1913, the original income tax used to be 1% of your yearly income...

According to Nancy Piglosi, the cost of health care is gonna' be about $15,000.

So if a citizen earns $20,000 per year, after taxes, the income tax rate with the health care added to state and federal taxes is what.???

About 110% in 2011...!!!!

sizzlerguy  posted on  2009-11-10   15:43:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

About 110% in 2011...!!!!

Sounds about right.

FormerLurker  posted on  2009-11-10   15:45:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

2011

State and Federally subsidized breadlines and soup kitchens will be doin' a boomin' biz.

sizzlerguy  posted on  2009-11-10   15:48:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

I came back from a insurnace meeting and according to the stats if all people had insurance the premiums would drop by 35-40%

How well did that work with "mandatory auto insurance"? The same claim was made then. How much did premiums drop? 0%?

COMRADE! Why are you not showing your Party affiliation and showing proper respect for Dear Leader? Put your Barackstika armband on RIGHT NOW!

mirage  posted on  2009-11-10   15:51:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

"mandatory auto insurance"

"Mandatory auto insurance" is one big joke in my community.

The cop's snitches, friends and families of the pigs and politicians don't need auto insurance, they just slap on any plate to any car, without ever insuring or emission testing 'em.

sizzlerguy  posted on  2009-11-10   15:55:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Auto Insurance is required for L-I-A-B-I-L-I-T-Y for the other driver and passengers not for the driver per se.

OI. let's say you have no health insurnace and you have a $500,000 claim. and you just walk away from paying it i.e. declare bankruptcy.

I have to pay for your claim via higher premiums because the hospital charges the people with insurnace more money to make up for your loss. Just like shoplifters cause us all to pay higher prices at stores.

What's the difference with your example? I came back from a insurnace meeting and according to the stats if all people had insurance the premiums would drop by 35-40%

The person incurring the debt is responsible for the debt.

However, most people are already covered by some form of insurance - whether public or private. It is only 8 million out of 300+ million (at least 1/3 of which are in the country illegally) who have no coverage. You do not need a Howitzer to hunt gnats - you need a flyswatter.

Providing a public Catastrophic Coverage Option is much different than creating an entitlement for Big Insurance and Big Pharma - which IS what this current bill is. You do not need to unconstitutionally SOCIALIZE the entire medical system to cover 8 million people. Healthcare is NOT the Feral Government's job. If it is to be addressed it should be most properly done at the State level, but you lovers of Gargantuan oppressive all encompassing Socialism always want the government to tell other people what to do for your convenience - even though time and again that venue has failed. Witness "The War on Some Drugs". Ever been in the military? I have, and for a significant amount of time - I know first hand how Socialized Hellthcare works - indifferent mediocrity to substandard, to outright incompetent. Insanity has been defined by some as doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result. Hmmm? If the shoe fits ...

As well one can create positive incentives to get coverage - such as making it 100% deductible from your taxes. However, that has not even been on the table. Instead we are to get 111 new bureaucracies and the use of force upon allegedly free citizens to comply with someone's neurotic fears.

"An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you know and what you don't. ~ Anatole France

Original_Intent  posted on  2009-11-10   16:05:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

the shoe fits...

This "shoe", a gooberment health care reform deal, is ripe for attracting massive fraud, waste, and typical gooberment mis-management.

sizzlerguy  posted on  2009-11-10   16:08:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

1.The person incurring the debt is responsible for the debt.

2.However, most people are already covered by some form of insurance - whether public or private. It is only 8 million out of 300+ million (at least 1/3 of which are in the country illegally) who have no coverage. You do not need a Howitzer to hunt gnats - you need a flyswatter

1. I agree OI but we live in a inperfect world. In my state for instance the hospitals are only collecting 10 cents on the dollar from people without insurance... and these people are racking up the high end of life type bills- atv accidents, strokes etc.

2. There are way more than 8 million LEGALS without insurance. I have seen figures from 25 to 30 million(without the illegals) from the insurance industry...and they want to lowball the figure.

belmontconservative  posted on  2009-11-10   16:13:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

First people are fined and if they refuse to pay the fine they go to jail

No. First government bankrupts the people, then the fine, then jail time. It's all a plan to kill off the U.S. population.

PaulCJ  posted on  2009-11-10   16:16:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

First government bankrupts the people, then the fine, then jail time. It's all a plan to kill off the U.S. population.

It's called the New World Order.

sizzlerguy  posted on  2009-11-10   16:19:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

than creating an entitlement for Big Insurance and Big Pharma - which IS what this current bill is. You do not need to unconstitutionally SOCIALIZE the entire medical system to cover 8 million people.

If Big Insurance and Big pharma are still part of the pictue it is not socialized medicine. Socialized medicine is when the gov't controls and runs/owns every aspect of health care. The docs are employees of the gov't and the gov't owns and runs the hospitals. Medicare is not considered socialized because the doctors/hospitals are not employees of the gov't -it's still quasi private

belmontconservative  posted on  2009-11-10   16:21:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

In my state for instance the hospitals are only collecting 10 cents on the dollar from people without insurance... and these people are racking up the high end of life type bills- atv accidents, strokes etc.

That is because there is a Federal Law in place requiring the hospitals to provide care regardless of ability to pay -- without creating a fund to ensure that hospitals are reimbursed.

Now, I'm not saying that we should be turning away the bloody at the ER doors, but a Government Mandate without Dollars behind it is a big problem here.

COMRADE! Why are you not showing your Party affiliation and showing proper respect for Dear Leader? Put your Barackstika armband on RIGHT NOW!

mirage  posted on  2009-11-10   16:23:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

It's all a plan to kill off the U.S. population

Paul If the gov't wants to kill off the US population(as in a sinister plot) why don't they just not do nothing about swine flue-let the people die? , why don't they just eliminate the USDA and FDA-allow tainted foods to come in and wipe out thousands??

belmontconservative  posted on  2009-11-10   16:24:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Once the economy collapses, it'll be decided that the only way to save the country is to incorparate it into a North American Union between Canada, the US, and Mexico. Just as the EU, African Union, and soon to be Middle Eastern Union, which are exerting increasing control over the member nations, the NAU will control all three North American nations.

Eventually, ALL unions will merge into a World Union. It makes one wonder, what about Russia and China? Well, did the Soviet Union ever TRULY go away?

As far as China, they appear to be onboard with everything, hence the treason commited towards giving them anything that they wanted.

FormerLurker  posted on  2009-11-10   16:26:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

That is because there is a Federal Law in place requiring the hospitals to provide care regardless of ability to pay -- without creating a fund to ensure that hospitals are reimbursed.

There are reasons why this law was implemented.

Would you want to deny people with super contagious diseases because they did not have insurance??

belmontconservative  posted on  2009-11-10   16:28:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

If the gov't wants to kill off the US population(as in a sinister plot) why don't they just not do nothing about swine flue-let the people die? , why don't they just eliminate the USDA and FDA-allow tainted foods to come in and wipe out thousands??

Thing is, the vaccines WILL cause health problems down the road (or within hours, days, or a few weeks after the injection), and the FDA IS pushing toxic substances as perfectly healthy (Aspartame, High Fructose Corn Syrup, artificial food coloring, toxins from pesticides, etc...)

FormerLurker  posted on  2009-11-10   16:29:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

North American Union

And who will be the "madman" in charge.>?"

sizzlerguy  posted on  2009-11-10   16:29:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

And who will be the "madman" in charge.>?"

The Wizard(s) of Oz???

FormerLurker  posted on  2009-11-10   16:30:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

I know there are many seasoned citizens on this board. If you are so scared about gov't run healthcare why do you not disenroll yourself from medicare??

The same people at the rallys who say "no to Obama socialized care" also say "Obama hands off my medicare". It's cracks me up. Amazing how many seniors thing medicare is a 100% private run industry.

belmontconservative  posted on  2009-11-10   16:33:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Would you want to deny people with super contagious diseases because they did not have insurance??

Re-read my post.

It is a mandate without funding. That is why we are having problems.

If we are going to have a mandate, then it must be funded. The lack of funding causes the problems with hospitals going broke and jacks up everyone else's costs.

Is that clear enough?

COMRADE! Why are you not showing your Party affiliation and showing proper respect for Dear Leader? Put your Barackstika armband on RIGHT NOW!

mirage  posted on  2009-11-10   16:35:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

It is a mandate without funding. That is why we are having problems.

Yes, and if you have mandatory health insurance it will be funded.

belmontconservative  posted on  2009-11-10   16:37:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

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