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Title: Obama: Jail Time for Those without Health Insurance
Source:
ABC
URL Source: http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalp ... out-health-care-insurance.html
Published: Nov 10, 2009
Author: Sunlen Miller
Post Date: 2009-11-10 10:37:57 by noone222
Keywords: None
Views: 1197
Comments: 105
Political Punch Interview with the President: Jail Time for Those without Health Care Insurance? November 09, 2009 6:30 PM During an exclusive interview with ABC News’ Jake Tapper today, President Obama said that penalties are appropriate for people who try to “free ride” the health care system but stopped short of endorsing the threat of jail time for those who refuse to pay a fine for not having insurance. “What I think is appropriate is that in the same way that everybody has to get auto insurance and if you don't, you're subject to some penalty, that in this situation, if you have the ability to buy insurance, it's affordable and you choose not to do so, forcing you and me and everybody else to subsidize you, you know, there's a thousand dollar hidden tax that families all across America are -- are burdened by because of the fact that people don't have health insurance, you know, there's nothing wrong with a penalty.” Under the House bill those who can afford to buy insurance and don’t’ pay a fine. If the refuse to pay that fine there’s a threat – as with a lot of tax fines – of jail time. The Senate removed that provision in the Senate Finance Committee. Mr. Obama said penalties have to be high enough for people to not game the system, but it’s also important to not be “so punitive” that people who are having a hard time find themselves suddenly worse off, thus why hardship exemptions have been built in the legislation. “I think the general broad principle is simply that people who are paying for their health insurance aren't subsidizing folks who simply choose not to until they get sick and then suddenly they expect free health insurance. That's -- that's basic concept of responsibility that I think most Americans abide by,” Mr. Obama said, “penalties are appropriate for people who try to free ride the system and force others to pay for their health insurance.” The President said that he didn’t think the question over the appropriateness of possible jail time is the “biggest question” the House and Senate are facing right now. Read more from Jake Tapper’s interview with President Obama HERE. -Sunlen Miller
Poster Comment: Comparing Health Insurance to Car Insurance implies that like driving, living is a "privilege" ...
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#40. To: belmontconservative (#35)
Re-read my post. It is a mandate without funding. That is why we are having problems. If we are going to have a mandate, then it must be funded. The lack of funding causes the problems with hospitals going broke and jacks up everyone else's costs. Is that clear enough?
COMRADE! Why are you not showing your Party affiliation and showing proper respect for Dear Leader? Put your Barackstika armband on RIGHT NOW!
Yes, and if you have mandatory health insurance it will be funded.
So you approve of it if it is operated for the benefit of Big Insurance and Big Pharma irrespective what it does for the patients? So are you a fascist rather than a socialist? Regardless of how you try to spin away from it is AUTHORITARIANISM whichever flavor you care to name it. One thing it is NOT is anything resembling the liberty bequeathed to us by the Founding Fathers.
"An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you know and what you don't. ~ Anatole France
Thing is, the vaccines WILL cause health problems down the road (or within hours, days, or a few weeks after the injection), and the FDA IS pushing toxic substances as perfectly healthy (Aspartame, High Fructose Corn Syrup, artificial food coloring, toxins from pesticides, etc...) FL, no vaccine or drug is 100% safe for all people. better to have vaccines and drugs than not. People die and have adverse side effects from the polio vaccine. Would you want to live in a world again without the polio vaccine? Polio is wiped out in the world today. I think the last case was 10-15 years ago in Burma???
They aren't doing a very good job of funding mandates currently and have NOT had a history of doing so in the past. What makes anyone think they'll get a clue this time?
COMRADE! Why are you not showing your Party affiliation and showing proper respect for Dear Leader? Put your Barackstika armband on RIGHT NOW!
Fuck anything that's deemed by the gooberment thieves to be "mandatory" and UNCONSTITUTIONAL.
So are you a fascist rather than a socialist? I have been a health insurance agent for 25 years. I am no fan of the insurance companies. The stories I could tell... That being said I want the insurance comanies to have a part of the system but they need to have their feet put to the fire. I remember the days when if a newborn infant was born and it had major birth defects, it was only covered for the first 30 days. If the parents tried to add the baby onto their plan the baby was denied. What a way to start out a new family huh?- 100,00's of thousands of dollars in debt Fed rules eliminated this. Now a baby is automatically covered for Pre-ex conditions as long as they sign the baby up within 31 days of the birth. Not all gov't laws are bad. Federal Hipaa and Cobra laws have also been a godsend. I remember the days prior to 1997 when a person could not(scared to death)to leave their job if they had severe PE conditions because they would be subject to Pre-ex when they transferred jobs. That is no longer the case via Hipaa.
Mandatory health insurance for your goldfish.
Imagine my shock. B-b-b-b-b-but they increased your rates. So, you favor increasing rates to increase someone else's coverage? So, you do favor a command and control economy, at the expense of liberty, if it increases your personal financial safety?
"An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you know and what you don't. ~ Anatole France
Why should a single guy, in his 50s have to pay for the hospital expenses involved in the birthing of someone elses kids.?
The same reason a couple with no kids has to pay the unholy school district taxes? All for the greater good, they tell us.
And hurricane/Flood policyholders cause my property insurance to rise as well...and I will never have any hurricane damage and if I ever get flooded then well it's the second great flood. There is a big differnce between the examples. I hope you are not comapring people who take responsibility for their actions by buying health insurance versus the dead beats who have a huge claim and just walk away.
And I been reading about drug addicts getting treatment for drug addictions from Obubbacare too. Why in the hell should straight folks have to subsidize a bunch of heroin and crackheads useless "quack" therapy.
Why??? Because people like me helped pay for his birth.
H1N1 fizzled instead of becoming a plague. Now poisons pretending to be vaccines.
From GRAPHICAL EVIDENCE SHOWS VACCINES DIDN'T SAVE US From HISTORICAL FACTS EXPOSING THE DANGERS AND INEFFECTIVENESS OF VACCINES - In 1977, Dr Jonas Salk who developed the first polio vaccine, testified along with other scientists, that mass inoculation against polio was the cause of most polio cases throughout the USA since 1961. (Science 4/4/77 "Abstracts" ) From DOCTORS AND SCIENTISTS CONDEMN VACCINATION "Official data have shown that the large-scale vaccinations undertaken in the US have failed to obtain any significant improvement of the diseases against which they were supposed to provide protection." the feds having the "dope", health records, and financial info on every single citizen in this country. So, what happens next.? To anyone who takes anti anxiety meds, psychotropics, etc, = good bye guns. Everyone will be chipped by mandate, for their protection and to insure quality care.
SPAMerica, a nation of spineless, gutless, mindless, self-absorbed, internet litterbugs.
It's our nanny-state, welfare-warfare state in action.
I understand that you loaned Methusela's family the cash for his birth.
SPAMerica, a nation of spineless, gutless, mindless, self-absorbed, internet litterbugs.
If the working people accept this communist nonsense they deserve it.
SPAMerica, a nation of spineless, gutless, mindless, self-absorbed, internet litterbugs.
It's (past) time to shoot the collectors. After about 25 of them die ... they'll re-think things. Even communists bleed red ! Fuck em, when do we say we've had enough of their shit.
SPAMerica, a nation of spineless, gutless, mindless, self-absorbed, internet litterbugs.
Do you mean like Congesswoman Loretta Sanchez (nee Brixley)?
A trillion here, a trillion there, soon you're not talking real money
Paste a link to the actual section of the bill that say's that. Any fine can and will be escalated to jail time and even a death sentence if you refuse to pay. That's just the way it is when you live in a totalitarian state.
Obama's health care plan shall be written by a committee whose head says he doesn't understand it, passed by a Congress that hasn't read it, signed by a president who smokes and has no birth certificate, funded by a treasury chief who did not pay his taxes, overseen by a surgeon general who is overweight and financed by a country that is nearly broke. What could possibly go wrong? - buckeroo You don't really think the alphabet agencies keep you safe from anything, do you?
Obama's health care plan shall be written by a committee whose head says he doesn't understand it, passed by a Congress that hasn't read it, signed by a president who smokes and has no birth certificate, funded by a treasury chief who did not pay his taxes, overseen by a surgeon general who is overweight and financed by a country that is nearly broke. What could possibly go wrong? - buckeroo They are by far not perfect but have done a reasonably good job. My wife is a veterinarian who worked for a while with the state as a animal/meat inspector- on farms and meat packing plants. She had farms and meat packing plants shut down until they cleaned up their act. Stuff that would make you puke or at least turn you into a vegitarian over night if you knew what these farms were doing. I would rather trust the USDA than some take the 3rd worlds countriesI.e. mexico word that their produce or meat is safe.
Funny thing. Back when I was born, when my parents didn't have insurance, they paid for it out of pocket. Guess who paid for my birth? My parents did. If they had insurance, and were paying their premiums back then, do you know who would have been paying for it? My PARENTS. Not you, not some other jackass, but the people who brought me into this world. You people with your overdeveloped sense of entitlement and importance, need a wake up call. You didn't subsidize anyone but your Insurance Company's employees.
Better to be hated for what you are, than loved for what you are not.
Nobody should have to pay for another person's kids' education. Greater good? The greater good would be for those who bring children into this world, be responsible for their education and upbringing. Parents these days put their kids on Autopilot between public schools, and television and they wonder why kids today have no sense of right and wrong, or the ability to work for anything.
Better to be hated for what you are, than loved for what you are not.
Open Season on World Kommunists in America is fast approaching. Call me krazy, but I can NOT wait. It's WAY past time for the trash like the booshes, klintons, obamas and all their superiors to start PAYING UP. BANG !
Parents these days put their kids on Autopilot between public schools, and television and they wonder why kids today have no sense of right and wrong, or the ability to work for anything. Well said, and Amen. Personal, and familial responsibility, are like some words from an unknown language these days.
You don't really think the alphabet agencies keep you safe from anything, do you They are by far not perfect but have done a reasonably good job. LOL you are very predictable if nothing else...
Excellent analysis Tommy. Poor teachers work like dogs and continually get the blame for what parents fail to do for their children. Can't get them to do the work in school. They have to deal with all those kids who failed the year before but were sent to the next grade so that they wouldn't have any emotional issues. In school today, kids have no skin in the game. Why do the work if your going to sail on anyway? There are no consequences, save for the teachers who know the kid will continue to fail because they don't have the skill set necessary to move onward and upward. They take the heat when the kids are failing, even when they warned that sending them on would lead to more failure.
Because it will keep bc's insurance rates down.
"An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you know and what you don't. ~ Anatole France
Ha, did not. I got to my place in life because people ahead of me in time did their share.
They are by far not perfect but have done a reasonably good job. My wife is a veterinarian who worked for a while with the state as a animal/meat inspector- on farms and meat packing plants. She had farms and meat packing plants shut down until they cleaned up their act. Stuff that would make you puke or at least turn you into a vegitarian over night if you knew what these farms were doing. I would rather trust the USDA than some take the 3rd worlds countriesI.e. mexico word that their produce or meat is safe. I guess that explains why the USDA FORBADE Small Independent Packers who wanted to ensure safety as a competitive advantage from testing EVERY animal for CJD/Mad Cow? The USDA threatened them with shut down and legal action if they did it. Your comparison to 3rd World Countries is a Strawman and irrelevant to determining whether Feral Goobermunt Agencies actually do the job they claim they do. Think about that. The Meat Packers wanted to EXCEED the USDA Standard and the USDA threatened to shut them down if they did. Does that mean they are doing a good job? Gee, I wonder why they threatened them for wanting to EXCEED the standard miniscule amount of testing done? Yeah, the FDA looooooooooooooovvvvvvvvvvvvvvvves you. They just give me warm fuzzies. I have listened to USDA Inspectors talk about how they are hamstrung by their superiors, how some are "paid off", and how some large Packers will run a "Hurdy Gurdy" during their inspection, which they knew was coming, and then go back to their standard slovenly unwholesome practices after the inspection. Like virtually all so-called regulatory agencies the USDA works first to protect the big players, not the consumer, in the industries they supervise. Our government is among the most corrupt on the planet at this stage of the game. They are just better at hiding it and have a compliant controlled presstitute corpse which will not report on it - because they depend on advertising revenue from the same people. The CIA is the largest Drug Importer in America and Wall Street depends upon the laundering of drug money running into the hundreds of billions. Spare me. "An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you know and what you don't. ~ Anatole France
You people with your overdeveloped sense of entitlement and importance, need a wake up call. You didn't subsidize anyone but your Insurance Company's employees. Thank you for your generous and most kind and considerate words. It is well that I do not use vulgar, obscene nor profane language.
You set a high standard here, sir. I hope to live up to it some day.
Thank you. There are times that intemperate young men test the souls of their very elders.
I don't use vulgar words anymore. I think the word Jackass adequately describes your attitude. Do you honestly believe you have subsidized other people with your insurance payments? Here's a quick and easy lesson as to how the Insurance Industry actually works. The premiums you pay, do not subsidize other people in the event of an accident, or emergency. In fact, they don't even pay YOUR bills. The money you pay the Insurance Company funds their employees, their day to day operations, and the proceeds are then put in a fund that they use to make quick short term, high risk investments that pay them large dividends. This money is then used to pay for catastrophic event coverage should you have a heart attack, car accident, or whatever operation du jour you need. They, like every other major finance institution play fast and loose with the money on their investments. If they took only premiums, and hedged that against the lives and health of the individuals they insured, I can tell you every insurance company would go bankrupt. Kind of like how AIG went bankrupt. When the stock market tanks, so do insurance company profits, unless they bet short on certain stocks. Kind of like how some companies did really well with put options on 9-11, and some did not. Kind of like how some insurance companies diversified their holdings into the housing market, and then found themselves losing everything because people could no longer pay their mortgages. Who do you think covered those mortgages, and what money did they use? Health Insurance, car insurance, life insurance, Home insurance, renter's insurance, and any other kind of insurance you can imagine are not directly funded by the premiums you pay. What you are doing, is giving the insurance company free money to invest, for them to profit, for the promise of them paying your bills should something happen. Either way, you aren't paying anyone's way, no matter how much you think you do.
Better to be hated for what you are, than loved for what you are not.
I called my two worthless Texas senators (John Cornyn and Kay Hutchison) and told their offices in D.C. and Dallas that I would not participate in this pernicious Nazi-esque mandate, that I would go to court and then go underground like a goddamned illegal mexican upon conviction. I told them that I wouldn't be the only one and that they were sitting on a lit powder-keg and that they'd better get on the stick and use parliamentarian rules to defeat this legislation. I got the standard response "They're voting against it!!" to which I replied that I can train a monkey to vote against the Demonrats, what the hell good are my senators if that's all they can do?? I hope America explodes in a glorious revolution that will restore the government to its' original role while simultaneously resulting in the death of tens of thousands of FedGov employees, it has come to that point with this legislation and current Congress.
_________________________________________________________________________ Wrong. Not the way Obamacare will work. The Utopians want everyone to be on an an "equal"plane. So Madame DeFarge and Obumski have decided not to let insurance premiums be affected by evil capitalist thingies like actuarial risk factors - age is one example. You see, The Utopians are way far smarter than actuaries = they've got their law degrees and diversity training and tree hugging immersion diplomas so they know best. Also, the option to purchase cheap high deductible catastrophic PPO insurance plans is pretty much a thing of the past 'cause we grass eaters can only purchase insurance plans that are approved by the Secty of Health, and you can be sure that those approved plans are gatekeeper HMO's that cover lots of preventative sh*t like annual exams and vaccinations and flu shots and are front end loaded to cover pregnancy and delivery and pediatrics but skimp on cancer treatment and heart bypass surgery for folks age 40 and up. Tax saving HSA's/FSA's are also de facto kaputz in the future. We can't have grass eaters saving on income tax can we? I posted a couple of articles on Obamacare the past few days that you might want to peruse. a. online.wsj.com/article/SB...tml#articleTabs%3Darticle "Effort to Assist Older Voters May Raise Costs for the Young" 11/10/09 b. online.wsj.com/article/SB...0.html?mod=googlenews_wsj “What the Pelosi Health-Care Bill Really Says: Here are some important passages in the 2,000 page legislation” c.www.heritage.org/Research/HealthCare/wm2686.cfm "Government-Run Health Care Even Without the Public Option" 11/09/09 d.online.wsj.com/article/SB...6.html?mod=googlenews_wsj "The Lords of Entitlement: Every medical insurance decision will be subject to rationing by politics" 11/09/09 e. www.newsok.com/medical-ex...tom_click=pod_lead_health "Medical expense accounts could be limited to $2,500" 11/08/09
Providing a public Catastrophic Coverage Option is much different than creating an entitlement for Big Insurance and Big Pharma - which IS what this current bill is. You do not need to unconstitutionally SOCIALIZE the entire medical system to cover 8 million people. Healthcare is NOT the Feral Government's job. If it is to be addressed it should be most properly done at the State level, but you lovers of Gargantuan oppressive all encompassing Socialism always want the government to tell other people what to do for your convenience - even though time and again that venue has failed. Witness "The War on Some Drugs". Ever been in the military? I have, and for a significant amount of time - I know first hand how Socialized Hellthcare works - indifferent mediocrity to substandard, to outright incompetent. Insanity has been defined by some as doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result. Hmmm? If the shoe fits ... As well one can create positive incentives to get coverage - such as making it 100% deductible from your taxes. However, that has not even been on the table. Instead we are to get 111 new bureaucracies and the use of force upon allegedly free citizens to comply with someone's neurotic fears. OI, you rock! Home run! Precisely and in a nutshell. I'm going to cut and paste what you said and send it to my friends, family, and associates. You've got logic! Madame DeFarge and Obumski both got B.S. - nothing adds up. As you say "You do not need a Howitzer to hunt gnats - you need a flyswatter."
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestWould you want to deny people with super contagious diseases because they did not have insurance??
#41. To: mirage (#40)
It is a mandate without funding. That is why we are having problems.
#42. To: belmontconservative, all (#31)
If Big Insurance and Big pharma are still part of the pictue it is not socialized medicine. Socialized medicine is when the gov't controls and runs/owns every aspect of health care. The docs are employees of the gov't and the gov't owns and runs the hospitals. Medicare is not considered socialized because the doctors/hospitals are not employees of the gov't -it's still quasi private
#43. To: FormerLurker (#36)
#44. To: belmontconservative (#41)
Yes, and if you have mandatory health insurance it will be funded.
#45. To: belmontconservative (#41)
mandatory health insurance
#46. To: Original_Intent (#42)
(Edited)
So you approve of it if it is operated for the benefit of Big Insurance and Big Pharma irrespective what it does for the patients?
#47. To: Jethro Tull (#14)
next
#48. To: belmontconservative (#46)
I have been a health insurance agent for 25 years.
...Fed rules eliminated this. Now a baby is automatically covered for Pre-ex conditions as long as they sign the baby up within 31 days of the birth. Not all gov't laws are bad. ...
... I remember the days prior to 1997 when a person could not(scared to death)to leave their job if they had severe PE conditions because they would be subject to Pre-ex when they transferred jobs. That is no longer the case via Hipaa.
#49. To: Original_Intent (#48)
#50. To: sizzlerguy. all (#49)
Why should a single guy, in his 50s have to pay for the hospital expenses involved in the birthing of someone else's kids.?
#51. To: Original_Intent (#48)
B-b-b-b-b-but they increased your rates.
#52. To: Lod (#50)
All for the greater good,...
#53. To: sizzlerguy (#49)
Why should a single guy, in his 50s have to pay for the hospital expenses involved in the birthing of someone elses kids.?
#54. To: belmontconservative (#33)
Paul If the gov't wants to kill off the US population(as in a sinister plot) why don't they just not do nothing about swine flue-let the people die?
#55. To: belmontconservative (#43)
Polio is wiped out in the world today. I think the last case was 10-15 years ago in Burma???
Dr A. Sabin, developer of the Oral Polio vaccine (lecture to Italian doctors in Piacenza, Italy, Decemebr 7th 1985)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#56. To: Jethro Tull (#14)
#57. To: sizzlerguy. all who pay their own way here (#52)
Why in the hell should straight folks have to subsidize a bunch of heroin and crackheads useless "quack" therapy.
#58. To: Cynicom (#53)
Because people like me helped pay for his birth.
#59. To: sizzlerguy (#52)
Why in the hell should straight folks have to subsidize a bunch of heroin and crackheads useless "quack" therapy.
#60. To: Pinguinite (#8)
The IRS also garnishes wages, imposes additional penalties and interest, and seizes homes, cars and businesses. Those things can destroy lives at least as much as going to jail, and often much more so.
#61. To: scrapper2 (#19)
a legal name change now is sound first strategy.
#62. To: belmontconservative (#6)
If you do not (or cannot) pay the fine, you go to jail.
Let me get this straight.
#63. To: belmontconservative (#33)
why don't they just eliminate the USDA and FDA-allow tainted foods to come in and wipe out thousands??
Let me get this straight.
#64. To: Critter (#63)
You don't really think the alphabet agencies keep you safe from anything, do you
#65. To: Cynicom (#53)
#66. To: Lod (#50)
#67. To: noone222 (#0)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams 
#68. To: TommyTheMadArtist. all (#66)
Nobody should have to pay for another person's kids' education. Greater good? The greater good would be for those who bring children into this world, be responsible for their education and upbringing.
#69. To: belmontconservative (#64)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#70. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#66)
Parents these days put their kids on Autopilot between public schools, and television and they wonder why kids today have no sense of right and wrong, or the ability to work for anything.
#71. To: sizzlerguy, belmontconservative (#49)
Why should a single guy, in his 50s have to pay for the hospital expenses involved in the birthing of someone elses kids.?
#72. To: noone222 (#58)
Pick up the phone. They would crucify him.
#73. To: belmontconservative, Critter, Rotara, all (#64)
You don't really think the alphabet agencies keep you safe from anything, do you
"Hi! I'm from the government and I'm here to help you."
#74. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#65)
If they had insurance, and were paying their premiums back then, do you know who would have been paying for it? My PARENTS. Not you, not some other jackass, but the people who brought me into this world.
#75. To: Cynicom (#74)
#76. To: randge (#75)
You set a high standard here, sir.
#77. To: Cynicom (#74)
#78. To: noone222 (#0)
"This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?”
-Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
#79. To: belmontconservative (#10)
What's the difference with your example? I came back from a insurnace meeting and according to the stats if all people had insurance the premiums would drop by 35-40%
#80. To: Original_Intent (#26)
(Edited)
However, most people are already covered by some form of insurance - whether public or private. It is only 8 million out of 300+ million (at least 1/3 of which are in the country illegally) who have no coverage. You do not need a Howitzer to hunt gnats - you need a flyswatter.
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