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Dead Constitution
See other Dead Constitution Articles

Title: Obama: Jail Time for Those without Health Insurance
Source: ABC
URL Source: http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalp ... out-health-care-insurance.html
Published: Nov 10, 2009
Author: Sunlen Miller
Post Date: 2009-11-10 10:37:57 by noone222
Keywords: None
Views: 1316
Comments: 105

Political Punch Interview with the President: Jail Time for Those without Health Care Insurance? November 09, 2009 6:30 PM

During an exclusive interview with ABC News’ Jake Tapper today, President Obama said that penalties are appropriate for people who try to “free ride” the health care system but stopped short of endorsing the threat of jail time for those who refuse to pay a fine for not having insurance.

“What I think is appropriate is that in the same way that everybody has to get auto insurance and if you don't, you're subject to some penalty, that in this situation, if you have the ability to buy insurance, it's affordable and you choose not to do so, forcing you and me and everybody else to subsidize you, you know, there's a thousand dollar hidden tax that families all across America are -- are burdened by because of the fact that people don't have health insurance, you know, there's nothing wrong with a penalty.”

Under the House bill those who can afford to buy insurance and don’t’ pay a fine. If the refuse to pay that fine there’s a threat – as with a lot of tax fines – of jail time. The Senate removed that provision in the Senate Finance Committee.

Mr. Obama said penalties have to be high enough for people to not game the system, but it’s also important to not be “so punitive” that people who are having a hard time find themselves suddenly worse off, thus why hardship exemptions have been built in the legislation.

“I think the general broad principle is simply that people who are paying for their health insurance aren't subsidizing folks who simply choose not to until they get sick and then suddenly they expect free health insurance. That's -- that's basic concept of responsibility that I think most Americans abide by,” Mr. Obama said, “penalties are appropriate for people who try to free ride the system and force others to pay for their health insurance.”

The President said that he didn’t think the question over the appropriateness of possible jail time is the “biggest question” the House and Senate are facing right now.

Read more from Jake Tapper’s interview with President Obama HERE.

-Sunlen Miller


Poster Comment:

Comparing Health Insurance to Car Insurance implies that like driving, living is a "privilege" ...

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#13. To: scrapper2, all (#12)

So, those who don't have the funds to purchase this gooberment health insurance are forced, against their will, to enroll in state social services programs, thus resulting in either the state or the feds having the "dope", health records, and financial info on every single citizen in this country. So, what happens next.? The states, who are all nearly bankrupt will be even more dependant on the gooberment for their survival.

sizzlerguy  posted on  2009-11-10   14:43:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: sizzlerguy (#13)

the feds having the "dope", health records, and financial info on every single citizen in this country. So, what happens next.?

To anyone who takes anti anxiety meds, psychotropics, etc, = good bye guns.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2009-11-10   14:46:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Jethro Tull (#14)

next

Urine and blood tox tests on everyone, except the pigs and politicians.

sizzlerguy  posted on  2009-11-10   14:52:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: sizzlerguy (#13)

Yes, that's probably how it will turn out in the end, more loss of privacy and higher taxes. We taxpayers will be on the hook for picking up the entire tab though, through increased fed taxes.

And btw, Obumski implied in the interview that claims of "hardship exemptions" before fines and jail time kick in will be looked at by the feds VERY CLOSELY ie. if your last name isn't gonzales you are out of luck

scrapper2  posted on  2009-11-10   14:54:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: noone222, *libertarians* (#0)

ping

http://www.moola.com:80/moopubs/b2b/exc/join.jsp?sid=4d6a55744e5451354e7a673d-2

freepatriot32  posted on  2009-11-10   14:56:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: scrapper2 (#16)

gonzales

It may be time to change our names, buy a tanning booth and some skin dye.

sizzlerguy  posted on  2009-11-10   14:58:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: sizzlerguy (#18)

It may be time to change our names, buy a tanning booth and some skin dye.

Seriously.

And any Anglo planning on getting accepted into med school post Obamacare implementation [ which btw rewards diversity in conjunction to health care delivery] - a legal name change now is sound first strategy.

scrapper2  posted on  2009-11-10   15:22:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: belmontconservative (#10)

I came back from a insurnace meeting and according to the stats if all people had insurance the premiums would drop by 35-40%

Back in 1913, the original income tax used to be 1% of your yearly income for those making under $500,000 per year.

Don't you see that whatever rates are originally charged for healthcare, they won't stay that way for long?

Original Income Tax Form from 1913


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2009-11-10   15:35:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: FormerLurker (#20)

Back in 1913, the original income tax used to be 1% of your yearly income...

According to Nancy Piglosi, the cost of health care is gonna' be about $15,000.

So if a citizen earns $20,000 per year, after taxes, the income tax rate with the health care added to state and federal taxes is what.???

About 110% in 2011...!!!!

sizzlerguy  posted on  2009-11-10   15:43:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: sizzlerguy (#21)

About 110% in 2011...!!!!

Sounds about right.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2009-11-10   15:45:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: FormerLurker (#22)

2011

State and Federally subsidized breadlines and soup kitchens will be doin' a boomin' biz.

sizzlerguy  posted on  2009-11-10   15:48:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: belmontconservative (#10)

I came back from a insurnace meeting and according to the stats if all people had insurance the premiums would drop by 35-40%

How well did that work with "mandatory auto insurance"? The same claim was made then. How much did premiums drop? 0%?

COMRADE! Why are you not showing your Party affiliation and showing proper respect for Dear Leader? Put your Barackstika armband on RIGHT NOW!

mirage  posted on  2009-11-10   15:51:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: mirage (#24)

"mandatory auto insurance"

"Mandatory auto insurance" is one big joke in my community.

The cop's snitches, friends and families of the pigs and politicians don't need auto insurance, they just slap on any plate to any car, without ever insuring or emission testing 'em.

sizzlerguy  posted on  2009-11-10   15:55:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: belmontconservative (#10)

Auto Insurance is required for L-I-A-B-I-L-I-T-Y for the other driver and passengers not for the driver per se.

OI. let's say you have no health insurnace and you have a $500,000 claim. and you just walk away from paying it i.e. declare bankruptcy.

I have to pay for your claim via higher premiums because the hospital charges the people with insurnace more money to make up for your loss. Just like shoplifters cause us all to pay higher prices at stores.

What's the difference with your example? I came back from a insurnace meeting and according to the stats if all people had insurance the premiums would drop by 35-40%

The person incurring the debt is responsible for the debt.

However, most people are already covered by some form of insurance - whether public or private. It is only 8 million out of 300+ million (at least 1/3 of which are in the country illegally) who have no coverage. You do not need a Howitzer to hunt gnats - you need a flyswatter.

Providing a public Catastrophic Coverage Option is much different than creating an entitlement for Big Insurance and Big Pharma - which IS what this current bill is. You do not need to unconstitutionally SOCIALIZE the entire medical system to cover 8 million people. Healthcare is NOT the Feral Government's job. If it is to be addressed it should be most properly done at the State level, but you lovers of Gargantuan oppressive all encompassing Socialism always want the government to tell other people what to do for your convenience - even though time and again that venue has failed. Witness "The War on Some Drugs". Ever been in the military? I have, and for a significant amount of time - I know first hand how Socialized Hellthcare works - indifferent mediocrity to substandard, to outright incompetent. Insanity has been defined by some as doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result. Hmmm? If the shoe fits ...

As well one can create positive incentives to get coverage - such as making it 100% deductible from your taxes. However, that has not even been on the table. Instead we are to get 111 new bureaucracies and the use of force upon allegedly free citizens to comply with someone's neurotic fears.

"An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you know and what you don't. ~ Anatole France

Original_Intent  posted on  2009-11-10   16:05:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Original_Intent (#26)

the shoe fits...

This "shoe", a gooberment health care reform deal, is ripe for attracting massive fraud, waste, and typical gooberment mis-management.

sizzlerguy  posted on  2009-11-10   16:08:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: Original_Intent (#26) (Edited)

1.The person incurring the debt is responsible for the debt.

2.However, most people are already covered by some form of insurance - whether public or private. It is only 8 million out of 300+ million (at least 1/3 of which are in the country illegally) who have no coverage. You do not need a Howitzer to hunt gnats - you need a flyswatter

1. I agree OI but we live in a inperfect world. In my state for instance the hospitals are only collecting 10 cents on the dollar from people without insurance... and these people are racking up the high end of life type bills- atv accidents, strokes etc.

2. There are way more than 8 million LEGALS without insurance. I have seen figures from 25 to 30 million(without the illegals) from the insurance industry...and they want to lowball the figure.

belmontconservative  posted on  2009-11-10   16:13:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: scrapper2 (#9)

First people are fined and if they refuse to pay the fine they go to jail

No. First government bankrupts the people, then the fine, then jail time. It's all a plan to kill off the U.S. population.

PaulCJ  posted on  2009-11-10   16:16:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: PaulCJ (#29)

First government bankrupts the people, then the fine, then jail time. It's all a plan to kill off the U.S. population.

It's called the New World Order.

sizzlerguy  posted on  2009-11-10   16:19:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Original_Intent (#26)

than creating an entitlement for Big Insurance and Big Pharma - which IS what this current bill is. You do not need to unconstitutionally SOCIALIZE the entire medical system to cover 8 million people.

If Big Insurance and Big pharma are still part of the pictue it is not socialized medicine. Socialized medicine is when the gov't controls and runs/owns every aspect of health care. The docs are employees of the gov't and the gov't owns and runs the hospitals. Medicare is not considered socialized because the doctors/hospitals are not employees of the gov't -it's still quasi private

belmontconservative  posted on  2009-11-10   16:21:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: belmontconservative (#28)

In my state for instance the hospitals are only collecting 10 cents on the dollar from people without insurance... and these people are racking up the high end of life type bills- atv accidents, strokes etc.

That is because there is a Federal Law in place requiring the hospitals to provide care regardless of ability to pay -- without creating a fund to ensure that hospitals are reimbursed.

Now, I'm not saying that we should be turning away the bloody at the ER doors, but a Government Mandate without Dollars behind it is a big problem here.

COMRADE! Why are you not showing your Party affiliation and showing proper respect for Dear Leader? Put your Barackstika armband on RIGHT NOW!

mirage  posted on  2009-11-10   16:23:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: PaulCJ, hayek-fan (#29)

It's all a plan to kill off the U.S. population

Paul If the gov't wants to kill off the US population(as in a sinister plot) why don't they just not do nothing about swine flue-let the people die? , why don't they just eliminate the USDA and FDA-allow tainted foods to come in and wipe out thousands??

belmontconservative  posted on  2009-11-10   16:24:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: sizzlerguy (#30)

Once the economy collapses, it'll be decided that the only way to save the country is to incorparate it into a North American Union between Canada, the US, and Mexico. Just as the EU, African Union, and soon to be Middle Eastern Union, which are exerting increasing control over the member nations, the NAU will control all three North American nations.

Eventually, ALL unions will merge into a World Union. It makes one wonder, what about Russia and China? Well, did the Soviet Union ever TRULY go away?

As far as China, they appear to be onboard with everything, hence the treason commited towards giving them anything that they wanted.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2009-11-10   16:26:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: mirage (#32)

That is because there is a Federal Law in place requiring the hospitals to provide care regardless of ability to pay -- without creating a fund to ensure that hospitals are reimbursed.

There are reasons why this law was implemented.

Would you want to deny people with super contagious diseases because they did not have insurance??

belmontconservative  posted on  2009-11-10   16:28:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: belmontconservative (#33)

If the gov't wants to kill off the US population(as in a sinister plot) why don't they just not do nothing about swine flue-let the people die? , why don't they just eliminate the USDA and FDA-allow tainted foods to come in and wipe out thousands??

Thing is, the vaccines WILL cause health problems down the road (or within hours, days, or a few weeks after the injection), and the FDA IS pushing toxic substances as perfectly healthy (Aspartame, High Fructose Corn Syrup, artificial food coloring, toxins from pesticides, etc...)


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2009-11-10   16:29:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: FormerLurker (#34)

North American Union

And who will be the "madman" in charge.>?"

sizzlerguy  posted on  2009-11-10   16:29:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: sizzlerguy (#37)

And who will be the "madman" in charge.>?"

The Wizard(s) of Oz???


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2009-11-10   16:30:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: All (#35)

I know there are many seasoned citizens on this board. If you are so scared about gov't run healthcare why do you not disenroll yourself from medicare??

The same people at the rallys who say "no to Obama socialized care" also say "Obama hands off my medicare". It's cracks me up. Amazing how many seniors thing medicare is a 100% private run industry.

belmontconservative  posted on  2009-11-10   16:33:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: belmontconservative (#35)

Would you want to deny people with super contagious diseases because they did not have insurance??

Re-read my post.

It is a mandate without funding. That is why we are having problems.

If we are going to have a mandate, then it must be funded. The lack of funding causes the problems with hospitals going broke and jacks up everyone else's costs.

Is that clear enough?

COMRADE! Why are you not showing your Party affiliation and showing proper respect for Dear Leader? Put your Barackstika armband on RIGHT NOW!

mirage  posted on  2009-11-10   16:35:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: mirage (#40)

It is a mandate without funding. That is why we are having problems.

Yes, and if you have mandatory health insurance it will be funded.

belmontconservative  posted on  2009-11-10   16:37:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: belmontconservative, all (#31)

If Big Insurance and Big pharma are still part of the pictue it is not socialized medicine. Socialized medicine is when the gov't controls and runs/owns every aspect of health care. The docs are employees of the gov't and the gov't owns and runs the hospitals. Medicare is not considered socialized because the doctors/hospitals are not employees of the gov't -it's still quasi private

So you approve of it if it is operated for the benefit of Big Insurance and Big Pharma irrespective what it does for the patients?

So are you a fascist rather than a socialist?

Regardless of how you try to spin away from it is AUTHORITARIANISM whichever flavor you care to name it. One thing it is NOT is anything resembling the liberty bequeathed to us by the Founding Fathers.

"An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you know and what you don't. ~ Anatole France

Original_Intent  posted on  2009-11-10   16:40:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: FormerLurker (#36)

Thing is, the vaccines WILL cause health problems down the road (or within hours, days, or a few weeks after the injection), and the FDA IS pushing toxic substances as perfectly healthy (Aspartame, High Fructose Corn Syrup, artificial food coloring, toxins from pesticides, etc...)

FL, no vaccine or drug is 100% safe for all people. better to have vaccines and drugs than not.

People die and have adverse side effects from the polio vaccine. Would you want to live in a world again without the polio vaccine? Polio is wiped out in the world today. I think the last case was 10-15 years ago in Burma???

belmontconservative  posted on  2009-11-10   16:41:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: belmontconservative (#41)

Yes, and if you have mandatory health insurance it will be funded.

They aren't doing a very good job of funding mandates currently and have NOT had a history of doing so in the past.

What makes anyone think they'll get a clue this time?

COMRADE! Why are you not showing your Party affiliation and showing proper respect for Dear Leader? Put your Barackstika armband on RIGHT NOW!

mirage  posted on  2009-11-10   16:41:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: belmontconservative (#41)

mandatory health insurance

Fuck anything that's deemed by the gooberment thieves to be "mandatory" and UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

sizzlerguy  posted on  2009-11-10   16:42:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: Original_Intent (#42) (Edited)

So you approve of it if it is operated for the benefit of Big Insurance and Big Pharma irrespective what it does for the patients?

So are you a fascist rather than a socialist?

I have been a health insurance agent for 25 years. I am no fan of the insurance companies. The stories I could tell...

That being said I want the insurance comanies to have a part of the system but they need to have their feet put to the fire.

I remember the days when if a newborn infant was born and it had major birth defects, it was only covered for the first 30 days. If the parents tried to add the baby onto their plan the baby was denied. What a way to start out a new family huh?- 100,00's of thousands of dollars in debt

Fed rules eliminated this. Now a baby is automatically covered for Pre-ex conditions as long as they sign the baby up within 31 days of the birth. Not all gov't laws are bad.

Federal Hipaa and Cobra laws have also been a godsend. I remember the days prior to 1997 when a person could not(scared to death)to leave their job if they had severe PE conditions because they would be subject to Pre-ex when they transferred jobs. That is no longer the case via Hipaa.

belmontconservative  posted on  2009-11-10   16:48:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: Jethro Tull (#14)

next

Mandatory health insurance for your goldfish.

sizzlerguy  posted on  2009-11-10   16:51:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: belmontconservative (#46)

I have been a health insurance agent for 25 years.

Imagine my shock.

...Fed rules eliminated this. Now a baby is automatically covered for Pre-ex conditions as long as they sign the baby up within 31 days of the birth. Not all gov't laws are bad. ...

... I remember the days prior to 1997 when a person could not(scared to death)to leave their job if they had severe PE conditions because they would be subject to Pre-ex when they transferred jobs. That is no longer the case via Hipaa.

B-b-b-b-b-but they increased your rates.

So, you favor increasing rates to increase someone else's coverage?

So, you do favor a command and control economy, at the expense of liberty, if it increases your personal financial safety?

"An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you know and what you don't. ~ Anatole France

Original_Intent  posted on  2009-11-10   16:56:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: Original_Intent (#48)

Why should a single guy, in his 50s have to pay for the hospital expenses involved in the birthing of someone elses kids.?

sizzlerguy  posted on  2009-11-10   16:59:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: sizzlerguy. all (#49)

Why should a single guy, in his 50s have to pay for the hospital expenses involved in the birthing of someone else's kids.?

The same reason a couple with no kids has to pay the unholy school district taxes?

All for the greater good, they tell us.

Lod  posted on  2009-11-10   17:11:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: Original_Intent (#48)

B-b-b-b-b-but they increased your rates.

And hurricane/Flood policyholders cause my property insurance to rise as well...and I will never have any hurricane damage and if I ever get flooded then well it's the second great flood.

There is a big differnce between the examples. I hope you are not comapring people who take responsibility for their actions by buying health insurance versus the dead beats who have a huge claim and just walk away.

belmontconservative  posted on  2009-11-10   17:12:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: Lod (#50)

All for the greater good,...

And I been reading about drug addicts getting treatment for drug addictions from Obubbacare too.

Why in the hell should straight folks have to subsidize a bunch of heroin and crackheads useless "quack" therapy.

sizzlerguy  posted on  2009-11-10   17:19:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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