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Title: On Afghanistan, Obama Chooses "None of the Above"
Source: NBC Miami
URL Source: http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/politics/Afghan-Plan-XYZ-69835167.html
Published: Nov 12, 2009
Author: Robert A. George
Post Date: 2009-11-12 07:54:48 by Phant2000
Keywords: None
Views: 310
Comments: 34

President Obama chose General Stanley McChrystal to chart out a new Afghanistan policy eight months ago -- and we're still not there yet.

McChrystal's primary recommendation was for a "surge" of 40,000 more troops.

If that wasn't enough, The New York Times has outlined three primary strategies for troop increases said to be under consideration -- with McChrystal's plan being one of them.

Three of the options call for specific levels of additional troops. The low-end option would add 20,000 to 25,000 troops, a middle option calls for about 30,000, and another embraces Gen. Stanley A. McChrystal’s request for roughly 40,000 more troops. Administration officials said that a fourth option was added only in the past few days. They declined to identify any troop level attached to it.

Now the real story has leaked out. President Obama is reportedly rejecting all three options presented to him by his foreign policy and national security team. Instead, he wants an approach that takes more into account the entrenched corruption that has oozed out of the Karzai government and now permeates most of Afghanistan.

A few weeks ago, former Vice President Dick Cheney accused Obama of "dithering" over Afghanistan. If Obama thought he had a problem then, he's really risking a public relations nightmare this time -- one that won't be confined just to conservative critics.

The three-option plan reflected the viewpoints of not just McChrystal. It also reflected the opinions of administration heavy-hitters like Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Secretary of Defense Robert Gates.

In addition to "dithering," Obama now runs the risk of appearing not to take seriously the counsel of any of his advisers -- on a policy that has life-and-death ramifications.

Yes, caution has its place -- especially when the subject is Afghanistan. Obama is also right not to accept the status quo of a corrupt Hamid Karzai-run government. But tossing aside the hard work of the best and brightest in his administration is bad politics and bad -- or at least random, amorphous -- policy. Karzai's corruption problem has been known for months. That he would probably end up winning the election and remaining in power was also pretty much a sure bet.

So, there's hardly anything that we know now that wasn't perceived eight months ago. Why didn't the president articulate exactly what he was looking for then -- rather than have his advisers put forth three complex plans that did little to address his concerns?

Afghanistan has a well-deserved reputation as the "graveyard of empires." It may yet also pick up a new name -- Creator of "Obama the Hapless" as plans A,B, and C fall by the wayside.

Exactly, how far through the alphabet will the White House go before a decision is made on what to do with Afghanistan?

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#1. To: Phant2000 (#0)

Best thing Obama could do is to ask the UN for help in holding new elections in Afghanistan, then taking part in a phased pullout where UN peacekeeping forces replace NATO troops, then pull those forces out totally once all NATO troops are withdrawn.

Of course NO warhawk or NWO handler will give him that advice.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2009-11-12   8:09:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Phant2000 (#0)

US envoy warns against troop surge in Afghanistan

Proposals to increase the number of American troops in Afghanistan have been questioned by the US ambassador to Kabul. Photograph: Rafiq Maqbool/AP

The US ambassador in Kabul has warned against plans to send tens of thousands more troops to Afghanistan, until President Hamid Karzai's government demonstrates that it is willing to tackle the corruption.

Karl Eikenberry sent two classified cables to Washington in the past week expressing his concern over proposals to deploy as many as 40,000 extra troops while the Karzai government remains dogged by accusations of incompetence and corruption, according to reports from Washington.

The existence of the memos was revealed as Barack Obama held a war council at the White House to discuss the final four options for deployment of extra US troops in an effort to stave off defeat at the hands of the Taliban.

Eikenberry is a former US commander in Afghanistan and his caution over a further troop build-up puts him at odd with senior generals in the Pentagon.

The BBC said today that it had been told Eikenberry had gone so far as to say it was "not a good idea" to send more troops.

www.guardian.co.uk/world/...nvoy-objects-afghan-surge

Troop surge opposed, poll finds

WASHINGTON — Most Americans oppose sending more troops to Afghanistan, as President Obama nears a decision on whether to ramp up engagement in the eight-year war, a poll suggested Wednesday.

The CNN/Opinion Research Corporation survey said 56 percent of respondents were against deploying more boots on the ground, while 42 percent support sending a larger troop contingent.

Overall, 40 percent of those surveyed expressed support for the conflict, with 58 percent opposed.

www.pittsburghlive.com/x/...79.html?source=rss&feed=7

Why the wars in Iraq, Afghanistan and now Pakistan are wrong, and immoral.

National Defense and the Bible

www.chalcedon.edu/papers/NationalDefense.pdf

bush_is_a_moonie  posted on  2009-11-12   8:27:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Phant2000 (#0)

McChrystal's primary recommendation was for a "surge" of 40,000 more troops.

Tel Aviv is in a quandary and cannot make up its mind how many Goys to send.

Cynicom  posted on  2009-11-12   8:56:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: bush_is_a_moonie (#2)

Eikenberry is a former US commander in Afghanistan and his caution over a further troop build-up puts him at odd with senior generals in the Pentagon.

The sad result of obummer's indecisiveness, lack of administrative experience and arrogance is all those bodies we see coming back home in coffins.

Why couldn't he stand up to the podium eight months ago and admit his opinion and calculations regarding Afghanistan were wrong and then announce our withdrawal?

Perhaps it is true that the POTUS lacks the intellect to realize he is a puppet. Hence, it is not he, but others, making decisions that benefit Israel and not the U.S.

Phant2000  posted on  2009-11-12   9:09:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Cynicom (#3)

Tel Aviv is in a quandary and cannot make up its mind how many Goys to send.

Your response confirms we are both on the same page.

Phant2000  posted on  2009-11-12   9:11:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: FormerLurker (#1)

... Obama could do is to ask the UN for help in holding new elections ...

I am against spilling one more drop of American blood in that God forsaken country.

Phant2000  posted on  2009-11-12   9:16:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Phant2000 (#4)

The military keeps sending Obumski strong signals and he ignores.

Cynicom  posted on  2009-11-12   9:17:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Phant2000 (#6)

I am against spilling one more drop of American blood in that God forsaken country.

As am I, but it would be extremely unlikely that all of a sudden the US would say, we're done playing, and instantly pull out.

It would have to be done with caution and with some face saving measures.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2009-11-12   9:19:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Cynicom (#7)

... military keeps sending Obumski strong signals and he ignores.

And we have seen how he "listens to others" in these last nine months of service. Only people who have his ear are those looking out for the interests of Israel.

Phant2000  posted on  2009-11-12   9:20:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Phant2000 (#6)

And here we are holding land maneuvers in INDIA.

Cynicom  posted on  2009-11-12   9:20:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Phant2000 (#0)

If McChrystal has even a thimble full of testosterone left in his body, he would stop being Obama's hire immediately. Let the Kenyan fumble through this mess relying on the input of Barney Frank, Nancy Pelosi and Henry Waxman.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2009-11-12   9:21:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: bush_is_a_moonie (#2) (Edited)

Eikenberry had gone so far as to say it was "not a good idea" to send more troops.

"had gone so far as to say"....Ha!...that's really living life on the edge...I can see that it takes a real special kind of timid, a*s kissing, dumbkoff to be a diplomat.

scrapper2  posted on  2009-11-12   9:22:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: FormerLurker (#8)

It would have to be done with caution and with some face saving measures.

What exactly has buckwheat's delay in decision and inattentiveness to his military advisors saved our face? We have egg all over it!!!

Phant2000  posted on  2009-11-12   9:23:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Jethro Tull (#11)

http://freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=110192

Cynicom  posted on  2009-11-12   9:23:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Jethro Tull (#11)

If McChrystal has even a thimble full of testosterone left in his body, he would stop being Obama's hire immediately.

You are SOOOOO right. Guess McCrystal lacks even a thimble full of testasterone! hehehehe

Phant2000  posted on  2009-11-12   9:25:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: scrapper2 (#12)

I can see that it takes a real special kind of timid, a*s kissing, dumbkoff to be a diplomat.

Scrapper: During the campaign, wasn't it buckwheat who stated diplomacy and negotiation could be the best answer to solving problems? Perhaps he should reconsider that statement and do something different.

Phant2000  posted on  2009-11-12   9:28:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Phant2000 (#15)

Guess McCrystal lacks even a thimble full of testasterone! hehehehe

Not in defense of McChrystal, rather in condemnation of politicians, why does not Paul and Kucinich not resign in protest, make a real scene????

The military people are employees.

Cynicom  posted on  2009-11-12   9:29:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: Cynicom (#10)

And here we are holding land maneuvers in INDIA.

Just another way to ensure any leaders of a coup in Paki won't go after Israel?

Phant2000  posted on  2009-11-12   9:33:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Cynicom (#17)

... why does not Paul and Kucinich not resign in protest, make a real scene????

They don't want to lose their power, perks and position?

Phant2000  posted on  2009-11-12   9:35:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Cynicom (#7)

That does not compute with your previous statements. It is YOU who continually says HE is commander-in-chief and in charge and the military just there to obey whatever he says. If he decides to dither, they must dither as well.

General Stan McChrystal should immediately quit, try to hire as many of the military away with any heroin trafficking proceeds he may have in his black budget and declare himself dictator and commander-in-chief of "Stanistan."

“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston

Sam Houston  posted on  2009-11-12   9:40:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: Phant2000 (#19)

Land war in the Middle East and or Asia is suicidal.

Cynicom  posted on  2009-11-12   9:40:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Cynicom (#21)

Land war in the Middle East and or Asia is suicidal.

Agreed.

Phant2000  posted on  2009-11-12   9:41:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Sam Houston (#20)

That does not compute with your previous statements. It is YOU who continually says HE is commander-in-chief and in charge and the military just there to obey whatever he says. If he decides to dither, they must dither as well.

General Stan McChrystal should immediately quit, try to hire as many of the military away with any heroin trafficking proceeds he may have in his black budget and declare himself dictator and commander-in-chief of "Stanistan."

Obumski has to decide if he is indeed the CIC or not.

So far he has shown no inclination to do so.

McKiernan was fired, McChrystal is next in line and now the ambassador to Afghan (a general) has called Obumskis bluff.

Three Generals and a bunch of enlisted people want out, either Obumski is CIC or he is not.

Cynicom  posted on  2009-11-12   9:43:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Phant2000 (#16) (Edited)

scrapper: I can see that it takes a real special kind of timid, a*s kissing, dumbkoff to be a diplomat.

Phant2000: During the campaign, wasn't it buckwheat who stated diplomacy and negotiation could be the best answer to solving problems? Perhaps he should reconsider that statement and do something different.

Perhaps I didn't express myself well previously.

Generally speaking, I believe that diplomacy and negotiation would be a much more effective foreign policy approach for America to pursue than the bellicose, America is the Uber Policeman of the World, pre-emptive war strategy we have followed in the past.

But if America is going to rely more on diplomacy and negotiation, then the President needs to have capable diplomats in the field who are deserving of the position, who are not afraid to tell the President the truth, not some timid insecure desk jockeys who got promoted within the State Dept because they warmed the desk chair the longest. Also the US Ambassador appointees should have smarts and merit the position, not just be some rich guys/women who don't have a clue about world politics but wanted a prestigious glamorous "foreign-posting" position because they donated a ton of $ to the President's election campaign.

Who knows - it's possible that Ambassador Eikenberry's remarks were stronger behind closed doors to Obumski than what is quoted by the media. And I just looked him up on wiki now, and it does seem like he's got the experience and training and education to merit the appointment of Ambassador - certainly more so than other appointees I've read about under this Admin as well as under previous Admins.

Perhaps I was prematurely judgmental about Eikenberry, specifically, when I reacted to the milque toast comment attributed to him by The Guardian reporter.

scrapper2  posted on  2009-11-12   10:00:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: scrapper2 (#24)

Who knows - it's possible that Ambassador Eikenberry's remarks were stronger behind closed doors to Obumski than what is quoted by the media.

I suspect they were much stronger.

Now as you read, we are conducting paratroop exercises with India on the other side of Pakistan, one has to wonder if Obumski really knows what is going on.

Deeper and deeper and the man cannot call a halt to this insanity.

Cynicom  posted on  2009-11-12   10:07:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: Cynicom (#25)

I think O believes that Pakistan is the lifeblood to Afghanistan, so if he can ally US with India, Pakistan will police itself. The danger is both nations have nukes and who is to say Pakistan will fold under the threat of a US-India relationship, given the hatred that exists between both nations? Again, we're injecting ourselves between two enemies with the no end game in sight, except for the rights to the natural wealth of Afghanistan. Such is the nature of empires.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2009-11-12   10:16:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Jethro Tull (#26)

Again, we're injecting ourselves between two enemies with the no end game in sight, except for the rights to the natural wealth of Afghanistan. Such is the nature of empires.

If Pakistan falls into chaos the racew will be on to see who gets to their nukes first. It is going to be very dangerous and the ONLY partner we would have in such an affair is India.

Expanding, expanding, deeper and deeper.

Cynicom  posted on  2009-11-12   10:20:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: Cynicom (#27)

It is going to be very dangerous and the ONLY partner we would have in such an affair is India.

So this explains the joint exercise and O's reluctance to add more troops into Afghanistan.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2009-11-12   10:29:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Jethro Tull (#28)

So this explains the joint exercise and O's reluctance to add more troops into Afghanistan.

If you look at the India exercise, you will see most are paratroopers etc. of whom are OFFENSIVE soldiers.

If Paki goes in the tank, we and India need to get control of the nukes damned fast. Right or wrong has nothing to do with it, it will be a matter of stopping nukes from being used.

Cynicom  posted on  2009-11-12   10:36:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: Cynicom (#29)

Have we run this offensive past our owners & neighbors in the region, the Chinese?

Jethro Tull  posted on  2009-11-12   10:50:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Jethro Tull (#30)

Have we run this offensive past our owners & neighbors in the region, the Chinese?

Good question and suspect we have.

Remember the Chinese do not like the Muslims even tho they have a large population in residence.

Even the Chinese do not want nukes wandering around the region.

Cynicom  posted on  2009-11-12   11:15:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Phant2000 (#0)

Obama should have a little Vodka with Gorbechev and listen to his advice:

Gorbachev Says Obama Should Start Afghan Withdrawal (Bloomberg)

Nov. 10 (Bloomberg) -- Former Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev, drawing on his experience of military failure in Afghanistan in the 1980s, said the U.S. can’t win the conflict there and should begin pulling out its soldiers.

Afghanistan, where U.S. and NATO forces are battling a Taliban-led insurgency, is too fragmented between clans to be controlled militarily, Gorbachev, 78, said in an interview today in Berlin. While he said President Barack Obama would be unlikely to take his advice, Gorbachev said he saw no chance of success even with more U.S. troops.

“I believe that there is no prospect of a military solution,” Gorbachev said in Russian through a translator. “What we need is the reconciliation of Afghan society -- and they should be preparing the ground for withdrawal rather than additional troops.”

Gorbachev, who became general secretary of the ruling Communist Party in 1985, at age 54, initiated a restructuring program known as perestroika that eventually led to the break-up of the Soviet Union in 1991. He spoke a day after he joined Chancellor Angela Merkel and current world leaders in the German capital to mark the fall of the Berlin Wall 20 years ago.

As Soviet leader, Gorbachev pursued a policy of detente with the U.S. while overseeing the withdrawal of troops from Afghanistan in 1989 after grappling with an unsuccessful decade- long presence in the country.

Disputed Election

Obama is considering a military request to send as many as 40,000 more U.S. soldiers to Afghanistan, on top of the 68,000 due to be stationed there by the end of the year. Other North Atlantic Treaty Organization forces, comprising personnel from 42 countries, number about 36,000.

The U.S. troop review has been complicated by increased Taliban attacks and by a disputed victory for the incumbent, Hamid Karzai, in this year’s presidential election.

Speaking in Berlin yesterday, U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton demanded that Karzai step up efforts to tackle corruption. Karzai was re-appointed president by Afghanistan’s electoral commissioners Nov. 2 following former Foreign Minister Abdullah Abdullah’s decision to pull out of a runoff election.

In response to an Oct. 28 attack on United Nations staff by Taliban militants that killed five of the agency’s workers in a Kabul guesthouse, the UN last week announced it would move about 600 of its international staff members and remove some from the country.

Brezhnev’s Gamble

Soviet Premier Leonid Brezhnev sent tanks into Afghanistan to support a Marxist regime in 1979, betting superior firepower from the ground and air would keep the country within Moscow’s fold. Soviet aims were thwarted by an Islamist mujahedeen movement supported by Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and the U.S.

While there was support in the Moscow establishment, Gorbachev as the general secretary of the Communist Party concluded that Soviet objectives couldn’t be achieved.

“We thought that that would lead nowhere,” Gorbachev said. “So we started to disengage our troops from any kind of hostilities in Afghanistan.”

The pullout began in 1988 and ended in February of 1989, nine months before the Berlin Wall fell.

The Taliban, an outcrop of the mujahedeen that dominated Afghanistan in the 1990s, took control of most of the country in 1996. The U.S.-led invasion five years later, following the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, was meant to displace the Taliban, accused of harboring the terrorist group al-Qaeda.

American ‘Perestroika’

Gorbachev said that relations between Russia and the U.S. are improving as America undergoes its own perestroika, or rebuilding, which he said had begun with the election of Obama as president last year.

“America should implement perestroika in the context of American society,” Gorbachev said. “I believe that people of America, most of them who voted in these elections -- and most of them voted for Obama -- did vote for change.”

Asked whether Obama could trust Russia’s current leadership, President Dmitry Medvedev and Prime Minister Vladimir Putin, the former Soviet leader said it would have to be a process. He cited his first meeting with former President Ronald Reagan in Geneva in 1985; after the two leaders met one-on-one, they shared their thoughts on each other with their delegations.

“He’s a real dinosaur, a man from the past,” Gorbachev remembered saying. “Do you think that Reagan had a better view of me? He said: ‘Gorbachev is a die- hard Bolshevik.’ So that was the beginning.”

abraxas  posted on  2009-11-12   11:21:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: abraxas (#32)

Obama should have a little Vodka with Gorbechev and listen to his advice

Maybe buckwheat will stop listening to his present comrade, emanuel, and appoint another czar, Gorbechav!!! I doubt Gorbie would be as destructive as rahm.

Phant2000  posted on  2009-11-14   10:52:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: Phant2000 (#33)

I doubt Gorbie would be as destructive as rahm.

lol.....I have more faith in Gorbie too.

abraxas  posted on  2009-11-14   17:51:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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