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Activism See other Activism Articles Title: SSN Inquiry from Robin Robin wrote recently asking questions about ditching SSN's. ---- Hi, I am wanting to unload my ssn # and am wondering how you do it - did you sign anything from them saying you are good to go, did they write you saying it had been done away with? Sincerely, Robin ---- Hi Robin, There's no official recognition from the government/SSA on the revocation of the number. The only time I've seen them do that is when they are issued to infants outside of the parent's authority and the parents fight a long administrative battle to make them wipe the number. Once the number has been used they generally keep it on file no matter what. The revocation procedure is not an administrative one. It's a legal one, designed to win the favor of a jury should the question ever be raised in court. The important thing to remember is who's SSN it is. *ALL* SSN's belong to the SSA. The SSA created them and assigned them to people. They do not belong to the persons to whom they are issued. Your file on record at the SSA belongs to the SSA, not you. The number only sticks to people if the people allow it to stick to them. Those who do not use it do not "have" a number. It's not a tangible thing that anyone can "have" or not have. If "your" file with the SSA does not belong to you (and it doesn't), then you are not responsible for its contents or even existance. But if someone does revoke the SSN application, then it's important that they not use the number thereafter. Ditching the number is like crossing the street. You go all the way or not at all. Never half way. Best, Neil ---- Hi Neil, Did you rid yourself of numbers legally? Or just quit using them? If legally could you please give us a step by step on what we should do. If you give up ssn legally do we still have rights in this country? Can we own our own homes. So many questions. Any help will be appreciated. Sincerely, Robin ---- Hi Robin, As I said, the revocation procedure is a legal procedure, but it is not an administrative one that the SSA recognizes. If I ask the SSA if they've got a file on me with an SSN attached, they will say yes. If it's important to you that the SSA gets rid of the file with your name on it then I don't know of any remedy that will make that happen for you (unless you happen to be a newborn infant that was just issued an SSN against your parent's wishes). As for legal rights without an SSN, by law, having an SSN only entitles you to certain federal benefits, so legally a citizen without an SSN has the same rights as a citizen with an SSN. Having said that, many states consider driving a car to be not a common right but a privilege that can be refused to someone merely because they do not have an SSN. While certain court rulings have found travelling by any common means of conveyance a right, you have to dig deep in some courts to find a judge to rule that way, and you'd have to be prepared to deal with that if driving is important or necessary for you. Having a bank account is a similar matter. Many banks will not open a bank account for someone without an SSN. Some success has been had if the account is a non-interest bearing account such that the bank does not have any interest to report on a 1099. Some people have reported success in claiming religious discrimination to banks that bulk at extending service to the unenumerated, since they compare the SSN to the Mark of the Beast described in Revelation, in which no one without it may buy or sell (something which is partially true with the SSN today). Certain regulations (26 CFR 301.6109-1) only require the bank to request the SSN but not necessarily receive one, but banks are generally oblivious to the correct wording of that regulation. Then again, since 911, certain additional regulations target banks to increase surveillance of bank customers in the name of fighting terrorism, money laundering et al. (A big brother mandate which is ironically done in the name of protecting our freedoms). If you decide you have a requirement to file income tax returns, doing so without an SSN can be problematic. I did have one person claim to me that he was able to do so, but the IRS may well consider it not possible to process a return without an SSN. In summary, living without an SSN in today's Land of the Free is not easy. You have to want it and you have to get used to doing things differently, in ways that the enumerated would never think of. Sometimes you end up pushing your way though bureaucrats that don't know any better and results often vary. If you are serious about ditching the SSN the SSA assigned to you, I strongly recommend Save-A-Patriot Fellowship (SAPF) at http://www.save-a-patriot.org. They prepare affidavits for their members that, in part, revoke & rescind the application for a social security number. Be advised that SAPF's primary mission is tax education and to provide members support if, when they assert the income tax laws as they are written, they suffer illegal financial hardship at the hands of IRS personnel. To that end, most of the affidavit of R&R that SAPF prepares for members relates to income taxes and not social security numbers. If you plan to file 1040's without an SSN, you should be be certain how you will do so before ditching the SSN. My best to you. Neil
Poster Comment: This exchange was not from 4um's "robin" (so far as I know). An old subject for me, but for many it's still new.
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#1. To: Neil McIver (#0)
No, it wasn't me, but I appreciate the questions and answers. I bookmarked this link: http://www.save-a-patriot.org. Thanks.
"There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket." – General Smedley Butler
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