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Dead Constitution
See other Dead Constitution Articles

Title: Missouri's Arresting Developments
Source: townhall.com
URL Source: http://townhall.com/columnists/Paul ... ssouris_arresting_developments
Published: Dec 14, 2009
Author: Paul Jacob
Post Date: 2009-12-14 08:40:06 by Eric Stratton
Keywords: None
Views: 536
Comments: 52

Missouri's Arresting Developments
Paul Jacob
Sunday, December 13, 2009

Our out-of-touch and out-of-control federal government generates most of our political grumblings. Washington is the government furthest away, and takes the biggest bite out of our wallets — to simultaneously wreak the most economic havoc through their complex matrix of subsidies, regulations and mandates.

Yet, the sort of arrogance, corruption and political bullying we’ve come to expect in national politics, has now reached Everytown, USA.

St. Louis, Missouri, to be specific.

Last week, Gustavo Rendon was arrested in broad daylight — right in front of his two boys. One St. Louis policeman threatened that his sons would be sent into foster care.

What horrific crime did Rendon commit? He passed out fliers to his neighbors. He spoke out on public policy — opposing an eminent domain land grab and promoting a petition effort to put the city’s development plan to a vote.

After being held for nine hours, Rendon was released and the trumped up charge against him was quickly (and sheepishly) dismissed. There probably is a legal case here, though: Rendon suing the city of St. Louis for big bucks for flagrantly violating his rights.

Dave Roland, an attorney for the state’s Show-Me Institute, argued on the group’s blog and on Charlie Brennam’s KMOX radio program, that this is much more than a one-time overstepping of constitutional authority by a couple of rogue cops. Roland calls it part of “an unsettling pattern of government officials trying to prevent the people from having their say.”

Overwhelming majorities of Americans oppose the current culture of eminent domain. And yet the abuse continues unabated. Governments regularly transfer property from one private owner to another — by force — for no purpose other than a vague claim of “economic development,” measured by nothing more than increased tax receipts.

Our local politicians shed crocodile tears, claiming that their larceny is laudable as the necessary by-product of “saving the economy” or “revitalizing neighborhoods.”

But such alleged developments have to be weighed against that other by-product: Namely, the abuse of our fundamental right to speak and to petition our government.

In their zealous desire for more tax receipts, politicians become heedless of basic rights.

Roland points to a number of assaults against First Amendment rights that are in part tied to the government’s addiction to taking private property though eminent domain. Perhaps the most nose-on-the-face obvious is the continuing legal saga of the city’s attempt to force Jim Roos to take down his sign protesting St. Louis’s abuse of eminent domain.

But the example Roland finds “most disturbing” is the Missouri Municipal League’s opposition to two statewide initiatives that would end eminent domain abuses. The League has filed a lawsuit challenging the ballot titles for these two measures, effectively putting the petition drives on hold.

As radio host Charlie Brennan exasperatedly explained, “Their own cities and towns are funding a lawsuit against them with their own tax dollars.” Perversely, the Municipal League gets its funding from cities and towns . . . which, remember, get their money from taxpayers, who overwhelmingly want eminent domain to be reformed.

Municipal League attorney Carrie Hermeling acknowledges that voters are likely to pass both initiatives, given the opportunity. But if the League can keep its lawsuit going, Hermeling notes that, “They aren’t going to be gathering signatures.”

And thus voters can be denied a fair and free choice on the issue.

The “they” Ms. Hermeling refers to is Missouri Citizens for Property Rights, the group promoting the two initiatives. The group’s leader, Ron Calzone, fears that legal wrangling over the ballot title is simply a backhanded method of blocking the opportunity for voters to consider his group’s two measures.

Calzone’s group, facing a May 2010 deadline to gather over 200,000 signatures on each petition, is held hostage to this litigation.

Now, in this gotcha era of technology, comes Dave Roland with a recording of comments made by Carrie Hermeling at a recent meeting of the Missouri Bar Association’s Eminent Domain Committee. Hermeling publicly admitted that the lawsuit’s “main objective” is “to delay the gathering of signatures.” Adding, “Hopefully we’re accomplishing that.”

Thwarting the people, denying basic rights — all to ensure the continued right to steal their property. Quite an accomplishment.

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#12. To: SonOfLiberty (#11)

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Eric Stratton  posted on  2009-12-14   15:25:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Eric Stratton (#12)

It may very well be hopeless,

I don't like the concept of hope, it's the poor man's excuse to not act.

but I'll tell you, if this shit with Palin-pandering keeps the masses on the "sidelines," fuckin'-A right it's hopeless!

Dude, you got Palin on the brain. She's renting space free right there in your head. Let her go for a minute.

In fact, about the only hope that I see short of, and very, very soon, states telling the FedGov to go fuck itself, is a coup.

There are more roads to Rome than two.

After that, I see no hope whatsoever. If LE and the military continue to fully comply with this fascist Government, then guess what, we're fucked pal!

You're only as screwed as you believe that you are. No revolution or revolt ever moved forward one inch with "it's over, we have no chance, give up". Yet history is filled with revolts and revolutions, many of them successful.

You can freely choose to get shot while resisting, but you won't win under such circumstances.

Only fools rush into the streets blasting at random, or hole up in their styrofoam homes and hope that tanks won't bust through them. But the choices aren't simply "go out like a loan nut, or sit around hoping other guys man up and do the right thing while you sit passively by".

So while you're being so trite, don't take your statement too lightly.

I refuse to subscribe to such a world view, actually. It's self defeating and self fulfilling.

To think that we are exempt from totalitarian control is foolish.

To think that we cannot fight it, equally so.

MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.

SonOfLiberty  posted on  2009-12-14   15:33:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: SonOfLiberty (#13)

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Eric Stratton  posted on  2009-12-14   16:20:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: F.A. Hayek Fan (#1)

There is a difference between cops in large cities such as St. Louis and cops in small towns. If you don't know the difference between the two types, then you are buttsniffer.

PaulCJ  posted on  2009-12-14   16:31:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: SonOfLiberty (#13)

You're only as screwed as you believe that you are. No revolution or revolt ever moved forward one inch with "it's over, we have no chance, give up". Yet history is filled with revolts and revolutions, many of them successful.

Which is why ES is probably a government plant. There are two types of government plants, the one that wants to entrap, saying we need to burn in all down now, and the other type that says that any action is hopeless, or almost hopeless. ES is probably the latter type.

PaulCJ  posted on  2009-12-14   16:34:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: PaulCJ (#15)

There is a difference between cops in large cities such as St. Louis and cops in small towns. If you don't know the difference between the two types, then you are buttsniffer.

I lived in a town of less than 2500 people for eight years before moving to Springfield, MO. You are wrong. There's no such thing as Mayberry anymore and hasn't been for a long time. Now go back to sucking off the local government enforcers you are so fond of. Be sure to wipe your chin when they are finished.

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976

The purpose of the legal system is to protect the elites from the wrath of those they plunder.- Elliott Jackalope

"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat

F.A. Hayek Fan  posted on  2009-12-14   16:52:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: F.A. Hayek Fan (#17) (Edited)

I lived in a town of less than 2500 people for eight years before moving to Springfield, MO. You are wrong.

I live in a town with a population of over 10,000 and you are wrong. Unless you are committing a violent crime, stealing, or selling drugs, they leave you be.

Traffic violations usually end with a warning, unless you are being an ass about it.

And I have it on good authority that the local cops would rather quit, or refuse to disarm the people because they few doing you would have to have a deathwish.

Now if you wish to rollover and die, go ahead, the rest of us are not.

PaulCJ  posted on  2009-12-14   17:27:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: PaulCJ (#18)

Now if you wish to rollover and die, go ahead, the rest of us are not.

My believing that government enforcers are scum whether they are from small towns or large has nothing to do with rolling over and dying. Your sentence makes no sense.

Between the two of us it is likely you who will be standing on the side of the road waving your Chinese made American flag as the government enforcers work with UN soldiers to implement martial law, not me.

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976

The purpose of the legal system is to protect the elites from the wrath of those they plunder.- Elliott Jackalope

"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat

F.A. Hayek Fan  posted on  2009-12-14   17:43:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: F.A. Hayek Fan (#19)

Between the two of us it is likely you who will be standing on the side of the road waving your Chinese made American flag as the government enforcers work with UN soldiers to implement martial law, not me.

No, you are the one cheering on the fascists. I am pointing how you are wrong in your broad generalizations.

PaulCJ  posted on  2009-12-14   18:10:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: PaulCJ (#20)

No, you are the one cheering on the fascists. I am pointing how you are wrong in your broad generalizations.

Point out a single post on this thread where I have cheered anyone on. You cannot because I have not. You are a liar which anyone and everyone who reads this thread will see. I have not made a single post cheering anyone on. On the contrary, my posts have been condemning the government enforcement brigades and the morons on TOS1 and TOS2 (which includes you)who cheer them on.

The only person on this thread doing any cheerleading is you. So fascist thy name is PaulCJ.

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976

The purpose of the legal system is to protect the elites from the wrath of those they plunder.- Elliott Jackalope

"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat

F.A. Hayek Fan  posted on  2009-12-14   18:20:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: F.A. Hayek Fan (#21)

Point out a single post on this thread where I have cheered anyone on.

You sir are the liar.

You posted, "Be sure to wipe your chin when they are finished."

PaulCJ  posted on  2009-12-14   18:23:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: PaulCJ, all (#22)

You sir are the liar.

You posted, "Be sure to wipe your chin when they are finished."

And how is you sucking off your government enforcement "heroes" until they orgasm in your government worshiping mouth make me a fascist cheerleader you ignorant twit?

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976

The purpose of the legal system is to protect the elites from the wrath of those they plunder.- Elliott Jackalope

"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat

F.A. Hayek Fan  posted on  2009-12-14   18:32:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: F.A. Hayek Fan (#23)

And how is you sucking off your government enforcement "heroes" until they orgasm in your government worshiping mouth make me a fascist cheerleader you ignorant twit?

I thought you were supporting oral rape by government with that comment.

PaulCJ  posted on  2009-12-14   19:00:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: Eric Stratton (#14)

You're free to believe in defeatism all you wish. I've reexamined my posts and cannot for the life of me see where there are contradictions, though I do always maintain that my sight, being human, can be imperfect.

And expound upon "how many roads to Rome there were in pre-WWII Germany" following the Night of Broken Glass?

One could go to Switzerland, or England, or the U.S. (and many did). One could join an underground movement and fight (some did). One could provide intelligence and covert ops for advancing forces (some did). One could even hatch plots against Der Leader himself (some did). Success is no guarantee, but it's a damned sight better than doing nothing and hoping others pick up the slack.

And honestly, you see no "fools" among the masses today??

Fools are everywhere. Every movement has them. The presence of fools cannot be a deterrent. Besides, the greatest concentration of fools is in the government. They're not competent to run a lemonade stand as a group, it's not like you have to look for idiots in their ranks. Their leaders, their very brain trust, is filled with morons.

Otherwise, I'll file under it sounds good on paper, but your "Oprah [we can do anything that we set our minds to] mentality" is shortsighted and ill thought through.

As I've expressed no actual plans on a public forum, that charge would be premature.

MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.

SonOfLiberty  posted on  2009-12-14   23:35:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: Eric Stratton (#0)

promoting a petition effort to put the city’s development plan to a vote.

There is a lot of wisdom in his act. It seems when shit like this gets put to referendum, the people overwhelmingly vote against the city.

It has worked on a bunch of issues... one issue that comes to mind is red light cameras. Wherever the people were able to get a referendum on the ballot, the people voted out red light cams. The Cameras never won.

I think we need more of this.


Let me get this straight.

Obama's health care plan shall be written by a committee whose head says he doesn't understand it, passed by a Congress that hasn't read it, signed by a president who smokes and has no birth certificate, funded by a treasury chief who did not pay his taxes, overseen by a surgeon general who is overweight and financed by a country that is nearly broke.

What could possibly go wrong? - buckeroo

Critter  posted on  2009-12-14   23:41:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: SonOfLiberty (#25)

deleted

Eric Stratton  posted on  2009-12-15   9:09:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: SonOfLiberty (#25)

deleted

Eric Stratton  posted on  2009-12-15   9:12:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: SonOfLiberty (#25)

deleted

Eric Stratton  posted on  2009-12-15   9:12:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: Critter (#26)

deleted

Eric Stratton  posted on  2009-12-15   9:18:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Eric Stratton (#29)

What's to account for? They've been accounted for. That's the entire purpose behind saying "fools are in every movement". As they are. That is called accounting for them. What do you want me to do, go on a full slag fest, searching out their every blemish and holding it up in the name of nihilistic joy?

They exist. I know they do. Most know they do. Let's move on.

MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.

SonOfLiberty  posted on  2009-12-15   10:19:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: SonOfLiberty (#31)

deleted

Eric Stratton  posted on  2009-12-15   15:13:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: Eric Stratton (#32) (Edited)

EDIT: Thought this was another thread, will respond back later.

MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.

SonOfLiberty  posted on  2009-12-15   16:05:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: Eric Stratton (#28)

That's a straw man argument. Nobody has claimed anything about "issue free", especially not I. If the only options you'll accept are those without "issues" then I can't suggest anything you'd find acceptable, nobody could. Ain't no free lunch, so you either get used to being reamed with Vaseline, or you step and do something about it (at the risk of, yes, issues). Your choice, not mine, we all have our own conscious to answer to.

MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.

SonOfLiberty  posted on  2009-12-15   16:12:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: SonOfLiberty (#34)

deleted

Eric Stratton  posted on  2009-12-15   16:20:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: Eric Stratton (#35)

OK, you're running in circles here.

Or, you're not understanding what I'm saying.

You're also not offering anything practical in terms of "solutions."

I was never asked to offer solutions, one, two even if I had solutions I would not posit them in writing on a public board. Three, what I'm doing is stating that I don't accept defeatism and the "get used to it" attitude, and if you can find fault with that it's not really my issue to be honest.

Too big, as in way too big, Government; A bankbusting war; Completely open borders; The corrupt status of the Fed/FedGov/Big-Banking.

So we should only face challenges if they're no challenge? Where's the sport in that?

There are no answers to big government, the root of all of this, in government, which is what you propose in essence.

There are always options. I propose not accepting a defeatist attitude. My examples of WW2 were illustrative only, showing that no matter how bad it seems there are always options one can take and not have to settle with "get used to it". Every scenario is different and requires different solutions. Don't be so concrete, they were examples.

Pressure by the people to get a government that has never in modern history listened to the people and one that is now gearing up to levy war against those same citizens, to change is not a solution, yet you seem to think that it is.

You're declaring an end to the game before the second dice roll, because the first dice roll didn't get you through he gumdrop forrest and over the rainbow bridge to the finish line in one shot. History happens incrementally, rarely if ever is everything all at once. Patience is, as they say, a virtue. If you think this is just about holding up some signs then I have to ask if you've even been to any of these rallies (serious question, not being snarky)?

It is that simple.

Nothing is ever simple. You have to take a more measured and long range view. This isn't a Nintendo game, it's going to take time, escalation and a lot of different actions to get to the end point. If you don't want to play along that's fine, but don't rail at those who are at least trying to do something as if they were fools. No movement's success is ever assured and history's most consequential moments are usually the result of actions whose success was in strong doubt before taken.

All I'm saying here Eric is that I reject defeatism, which is all that I see you upholding. I don't begrudge you your opinion, but I'm not swayed by the notion of sitting down and getting used to massa's whip.

MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.

SonOfLiberty  posted on  2009-12-15   16:39:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: Eric Stratton, *libertarians*, *Jack-Booted Thugs* (#0)

ping

http://www.moola.com:80/moopubs/b2b/exc/join.jsp?sid=4d6a55744e5451354e7a673d-2

freepatriot32  posted on  2009-12-15   17:33:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: SonOfLiberty (#36)

deleted

Eric Stratton  posted on  2009-12-15   17:44:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Eric Stratton (#38)

1. There were no 'true leaders' in the, say, 1750's. Again, you're doing the "we didn't win on the first dice roll" analogy. Things take time to play out, as I've mentioned. The fact that we have a situation now doesn't mean that if we can't fix it in the next ten minutes that somehow the world explodes or we're all consigned to chains for the rest of time. That is simply unrealistic in regards to human history. Additionally your view lacks a bit of insight into the nature of leadership and how easily it is exploited in the modern world. Leaderless resistance seems to be the path being focused on more and more by those of us against the PTB. When times change, so do methods. If you were a military general I'd tell you that you're still trying to fight world war 2 as an analogy.

I suspect there's not a lot more I can say. Yes, I do see your view as defeatism, and no, I don't think you have some kind of crystal clear understanding that I do not posess. While I think you can contribute insight like anybody else, you probably shouldn't presume to have some kind of oracle like abilities that convince you that all others are wrong to want to resist. While I respect your right to hold and state any opinion you wish, I simply disagree and don't subscribe to your particular view of the situation. Cheers.

MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.

SonOfLiberty  posted on  2009-12-16   9:04:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: SonOfLiberty (#39)

deleted

Eric Stratton  posted on  2009-12-16   10:18:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: Eric Stratton (#40)

You obviously fail to understand the imminency of the problem.

You are drawing false conclusions, or assuming that somehow government is composed of super human omnipotent gods. I was a member, once upon a time, of the military intelligence community. I'm well aware of what we're up against, probably at a much more detailed and full scope of vision than you. Don't presume please.

Allow me to ask, can you lay out the precise/exact/specific outcomes that your solutions hope to provide?

And what are my solutions again? As I recall, I stated that things take time to escalate. And they do. History doesn't happen in a time-space singularity event. My methods, or the ones I'd consider, would be leaderless cell, but then of course who could know how that would turn out, since there is no central planning authority to determine either methods or outcomes? You're stuck in the same paradigm as the government you wish to surrender to, e.g. - "Need leader or fail!".

Do that and I think we can quickly escalate this into the conclusion part of our discussion.

The discussion was already concluded when I gave you the "cheers". I'm trying to end it amicably.

You're railing against me because I don't have a full layed out detailed plan for, apparently, everybody to follow. But that would invalidate the entire concept of leaderless cell resistance to the letter. I cannot predict success or failure of future actions, except one. I can predict with utter certainty that sitting back and saying "lube up guys, and get used to being screwed" will result in utter failure guaranteed.

I get that to you, who as you say see it clearly, it's all hopeless outside of some other people (not us obviously, we cannot act) doing something on our behalf. You are free to not engage, and that's fine.

Why you need to talk others out of action has me a bit befuddled. If we're fools for *doing something* (or wanting to do something), then let nature take its course. If we succeed at some indeterminate future time, you'll be carried along on the tide with us, and if we don't, hey, at least we tried and didn't give up without so much as firing a shot.

MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.

SonOfLiberty  posted on  2009-12-16   11:16:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: SonOfLiberty (#41)

deleted

Eric Stratton  posted on  2009-12-16   12:59:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: Eric Stratton (#42) (Edited)

How long?

There's no way to predict.

What, again, specifically in your eyes, needs to happen?

More escalation. By that I don't mean just more marching around. We both know they're going to ignore the marches, though they do seem apprehensive at this time and are trying to ginger their way from our anger. But they'll ignore us. That will cause an escalation in the game as the ball is back in our court. I suppose we'll see the whole game kicked up a notch with "our" response, and their counter response(s).

You view yourself as captive in a cave, but you reason to yourself that over time you will populate your kind, strengthen, and eventually overpower those that guard the door.

No, in fact that is precisely how I don't see it. What I see is that we already outnumber them by magnitudes of order. And further, I don't consider us trapped and already in a prison (cave).

I view myself in the same cave, realize that more guards are coming to guard the cave entrance, that I/we can't possible breed fast enough to outnumber those that guard the door in any kind of timely enough manner or even close to affect the desired outcome of liberty, and I've fully realized that they control what comes into the cave that we use as nourishment

You seem to view them as nearly all powerful. A close association with them over time however informs me that not only are they not "in control" and "all powerful" but rather, that they are a gaggle of incompetent, petty, arrogant nobodies, by and large. This is why I do not fear them as you do. The reason I'm a libertarian is because I know for a fact that the government is the most inefficient, ill staffed and bloody mindedly stupid organization to exist on God's green earth. If they weren't, why wouldn't I instead prefer them to order life, instead of private individuals?

To this point in time you still haven't specifically told me/us exactly what it is you hope will happen with further simple "civil discourse" the prospects for which are apparently w/o your notice vaporizing as you claim the right.

Straw man. I've not stated that this will remain a civil discourse. I suspect that's where you're confusion is coming in. I'm stating that right now it's civil discourse/protest. I've no illusions that it will become more in time, and have never stated the contrary. If you're asking me how it will escalate then you're asking me to predict how other people will act, which neither I nor you nor anybody can do with certainty.

No, I'm railing against you, if that's what I'm doing, because you have laid out absolutely no vision for exactly where/how you think that what you say, namely protesting Government, etc., will come to pass in terms of fruition.

Ibid

The best that I can come up with is that you too seem to think that eventually government will listen when that's tantamount to thinking that eventually a lion will eventually become a vegetarian. Governments are what they are! Power does not nor ever has resulted in the voluntary dissolution of control by those that hold it!

This confirms my suspiscions. I know they won't listen. That's why I've stated, repeatedly, that events are going to escalate. In other words, when the current method(s) do not yield results, more forceful, dire or unexpected things will come into play from our (and eventually their) side. That's what escalation means. It doesn't mean we march out and use a different color of ink on our signs. It could mean, instead (and for example only) these same people forcing their state government's hand into secession, which you've already stated is a possibility. It could mean (and again, for example only) a revolt where we handily outnumber them and have greater firepower short of nukes. It could mean, in fact, any number of possible scenarios.

During the march in DC there were signs, more than one, that basically stated in so many words "We come unarmed - this time". People throwing that up in front of the Capitol building with a million + around them agreeing aren't the kind of people that are going to shrug and say "oh well" when they're ultimately ignored by government.

Everything that you claim runs completely counter to that reality. Everything.

Which is why I think that you're either making a straw man to come to this conclusion, or haven't understood what I've said, or assumed I only mean one thing.

MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.

SonOfLiberty  posted on  2009-12-16   14:16:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: SonOfLiberty (#43)

deleted

Eric Stratton  posted on  2009-12-16   15:20:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: Eric Stratton (#44)

So you're saying that we have forever to do it then?

No, I'm saying there's no way to predict. Could be next week, could be a year, could be a century. Who knows?

You seem to view them as nearly all powerful. Yes, very close to it.

That's funny. heh No wonder you fear them. You've created their power in your mind where no power exists and now there's no dragging you from it. The only power they have are gun barrels. Big deal. We have those too. The rest of the "power" you see comes only from your own consent in your thoughts.

In your world you scream and shout more just like we've been doing for decades with this freight train continuing to head down the same path unhindered for the most part. i.e., business as usual but you seem to think there's merit in shaking your fist at it as it steamrolls you over.

And once again you come out with the straw man.

If you'd read closely you'd have seen that I do not think it's a matter of simply shouting or protesting. As has been mentioned by me. Over. And over. And over.

This says nothing.

Because you didn't understand it doesn't mean it said nothing. It simply means you didn't understand it.

MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.

SonOfLiberty  posted on  2009-12-16   15:26:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: SonOfLiberty (#45)

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Eric Stratton  posted on  2009-12-16   15:33:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: SonOfLiberty (#45)

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Eric Stratton  posted on  2009-12-16   15:35:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: Eric Stratton (#47)

How would you know what "they" the so called "leaders" which do not exist, were calling for if you were not there? MSNBC? CNN?

MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.

SonOfLiberty  posted on  2009-12-17   1:59:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: Eric Stratton (#46)

No "tea party fearless leaders"

Straw man. I claim up front that there are no leaders.

It's part of the whole "leaderless resistance" meme.

And in telling the FedGov to fuck off, you cannot then turn around and say "but we'll take money to pay our unemployment burdens though!" It just doesn't work that way.

And when did I turn around and say that? Link or cite please. Thanks in advance.

MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.

SonOfLiberty  posted on  2009-12-17   2:00:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: Eric Stratton (#10)

It's why any and all acts must be completely anonymous.

Better to be hated for what you are, than loved for what you are not.

TommyTheMadArtist  posted on  2009-12-17   2:16:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: SonOfLiberty (#49)

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Eric Stratton  posted on  2009-12-17   7:57:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#50)

deleted

Eric Stratton  posted on  2009-12-17   8:10:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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