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Title: Former Lesbian Couple Battles Over Child Custody
Source:
The New American
URL Source: http://www.thenewamerican.com/index ... ple-battles-over-child-custody
Published: Dec 31, 2009
Author: Rebecca Terrell
Post Date: 2009-12-31 17:13:22 by farmfriend
Keywords: None
Views: 4780
Comments: 157
Written by Rebecca Terrell A seven-year-old girl stands in the crosshairs of a bizarre custody battle between former lesbian domestic partners Lisa Miller and Janet Jenkins. The Wall Street Journal reports that Miller is the child's biological mother and conceived her by artificial insemination while living with Jenkins in Vermont, where they were joined in a civil union in 2001. Miller became a Christian in 2003, renounced the homosexual lifestyle, and moved to Virginia with her then-infant daughter, Isabella Miller-Jenkins. Jenkins sued for unsupervised visitation, which Vermont Judge William Cohen granted after dissolving the civil union, but Miller refused to comply with the court order. She said allowing Isabella to spend time unsupervised with Jenkins would violate her Christian principles. Miller appealed the visitation order to courts in Vermont and Virginia. The VermontTimes Argus reports that Miller's attorneys argued that Isabella has not lived with Jenkins since she was a baby. A doctor who testified in the case said the change could "induce devastating trauma." Miller also expressed concern that Jenkins refuses to take Isabella to church. Jenkins' attorneys denied these claims. Miller's appeals in both states were unsuccessful, but she remained in contempt. As a result, in November the court awarded Jenkins sole custody. According to the Wall Street Journal, an attorney for Jenkins claimed, "It is Ms. Jenkins' intent when she has custody of Isabella to allow as liberal contact as is possible with her other mother." Miller tried to delay the transfer, set for January 1, but the court denied that request, too. Now, Miller and Isabella are missing. ABC News reports that no one has seen or heard from either of them since November 20, not even Miller's attorneys. Under Vermont law, Jenkins is one of Isabella's legally recognized parents. She filed a missing person report on Wednesday since she does not know the whereabouts of her daughter. Her attorney Sarah Star said Jenkins is concerned about Isabella's safety and about Miller's mental stability. ABC News also quoted a professor of constitutional law at Vermont Law School who explained that if the transfer does not take place January 1, the court will likely issue a warrant for Miller's arrest.
Former Lesbian Couple Battles Over Child Custody
Thursday, 31 December 2009 01:00
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#1. To: farmfriend (#0)
Absolute insanity. The Dyke should take a hike. However, they can be nasty and vindictive.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
It's a female thing.
"The only thing better than a Federal Reserve audit would be a Federal Reserve autopsy." ~ unknown
Discretion being the better part of valor I have no comment at this time on female "things".
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
She had a child with the woman. Her newly minted Christian status doesn't change that. IMHO, she is using her Christianity as a feeble excuse to be vindictive. Now that she lost her feeble legal argument she opts to take the child on the run. That doesn't make her mother of the year.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Actually, she had a child with some anonymous sperm donor. The child, as Archie Bunker might have said, is the result of artificial invigoration (that is what he called artificial insemination). I can't disagree with her taking the child and going wherever she has to so that this other woman has no contact with the child.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. This woman had no problem with her lover as a parent when she was munching her carpet and planning to have children together. Now she changes her mind and the other woman has no rights? I call BS on that. There is not one iota of evidence that Jenkins is unfit to parent. The child was conceived in a legal marital union, granting parental rights. Taking the child on the run is good for the kid? I think not. She has no basis for her "no contact" claims, other than she's a newly minted Christian who doesn't act like a Christian at all. Her religious claims are bovine excrement. Frankly, this woman doesn't sound all that stable for parenting. Perhaps, the child would be better off with her other mommy even if she is still munching carpets, at least she isn't confused and vindictive.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
uh, the fact, if it is a fact, that she is "still munching carpets" tells me that she is confused. As for vindictive, I would bet you anything I have that that is a major reason for the court case. And the fact was, and is, that no matter how long they might have stayed together, they would NEVER have had children together. Not unless you can show us how women no longer need men to father a child, or as one of my friends says, "do the roughin' in" (he's an electrician and when he sees a strikingly beautiful girl he would say something like, "I wouldn't mind helping her rough one in.")
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Initially, she only wanted the parental rights granted her under the state. No more, no less. She was there for the pregnancy and birth, planning on her role as a parent. The other mom faught her all the way and the only argument she had was her newly minted Christianity. If she had anything at all to determine that Jenkins was unfit she would have presented it already......but there was none. I'd agree if the mom on the run could have proven that Jenkins was unfit, but she couldn't. Personally, I find people that like men, then women, then men again more confused than people who stick with one gender. I don't think that taking the kid on the run shouts stability either. Do you think that all non-biological parents should have their parental rights revoked if the biological parent converts to Christianity? Do you think that people should be excused from state laws because of religious conversion? Mom on the run went to court and lost her case.......she should have thought about that while planning a family with her lesbian wife.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Never said it did. I think they are both being vindictive.
"The only thing better than a Federal Reserve audit would be a Federal Reserve autopsy." ~ unknown
Maybe so. I still think if she had any evidence to indicate that the other mom is unfit she would have presented it. All she had was religion, which didn't work out as she planned. Poor kid.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Personally I have problems with the whole religion against homosexuality thing. I know the Bible speaks against it but I have a hard time seeing how the God of love could be against love.
"The only thing better than a Federal Reserve audit would be a Federal Reserve autopsy." ~ unknown
When a person realizes that they have made a mistake would you condemn them to live forever with that mistake? I wouldn't.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. She doesn't have to live forever with the woman she is now divorced from, but she does need to comply with the state laws where she opted to tie the knot and bring a baby into this world. Does the other mother have no rights simply becuase she is gay? Why does mom on the run feel the need to omit this persom whom she deemed a fit parent from the life of this child? Could it be because she wants to keep her lesbian life a secret? She needs to buck up and live up to her agreements and the orders of the court. She only lost custody because she refused to comply with visitation and allow the other mother to be the parent she wants to be. It's her own damn fault.....and she will have to live with the consequences for her actions. You don't really believe that just because she is a newly minted Christian that she doesn't have to comply with her previous agreements or the court decisions that she requested be made, do you? IMHO, she's making more mistakes. She should own up to her mistakes, not run from them with the child.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
The woman had the child with a sperm doner. The second woman, while legally a spouse, is nothing to the child biologically. In any other divorce, should the child go with its biological parent or its step-parent? Unless the biological parent is unfit, I see no reason why the non-biological parent has any claim on the child. The mother fled with the child, probably for this reason.
------- Good post. I couldn't have answered any better. I would make the point that while the states, indeed the federal government, may make just about anything "legal," that does not, in and of itself, make it lawful.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. She was all for the legality of her union when she married her lesbian lover. She reminds me of former smokers who harp on others for doing what they used to do. It's fine while she is munching carpets, but when she opts to stop munching all other munchers become sinners. She takes on this role that she is "above the law" and "principled" in her fight. I'm not buying it. Would you say that an adoptive father who is denied rights to parent a child just and correct too? Since he would not be a biological parent, he should also have no visitation or custody despite no evidence of being "unfit" to parent?
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
In any other divorce, the non biological parent would have rights to the child. What about when adoptive parents divorce? Shall the child become a ward of the state because no biological parent is in the fight? Unless the non-biological parent is deemed unifit, I see no reason why the biologcial parent should be the only parent with rights to parent.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
And then she realized that she was wrong. People are allowed to learn from their mistakes and not have to be punished by them for the rest of their lives. At least that is how I feel. I understand you think differently and that's ok. Not going to argue about it.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. The lesbian couple were married at the time of the child's birth. Even though that there is no biological connection to one of them, both were considered parents of the child in he eyes of the law, thanks to the whole legalized gay marriage thing. What this does, is create a situation in the future, where our courts will have a lot more of this to deal with. There is no doubt that someone who changes their life, renounces their sinful ways and takes their Biological child away from a mentally destabilizing environment, is going to be better for the child in the long run. The courts will see fit that the woman who is not a biological parent to remove her from the equation, as she is nothing more than an acquaintance, not a parent.
Better to be hated for what you are, than loved for what you are not.
Which is why I'm against gay marriage even though I believe it to be discrimination. The more "normal" the family life, the better for the child. While my husband and I are not completely happy in our marriage my kids have had a very stable life despite all the financial upheaval. They have not had the trama of divorce and have actually lived in the same house all their lives. That's about as stable as it gets this day and age.
"The only thing better than a Federal Reserve audit would be a Federal Reserve autopsy." ~ unknown
When the former carpet muncher refused to comply with the court orders, contempt if you will, the courts granted her former wife full custody of the child. Now she is on the run with the child and when she is found she will be arrested. The court doesn't take kindly to blatent disregard of orders. Initially, it was visitation granted and now it it is full custody.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
And that is the problem. Many people believe that being gay automatically makes them unfit. This is especially true when you coming from a religious stand point. There is some evidence, biased perhaps given the source, that children are more likely to suffer abuse in a gay household. I have a hard time with the whole subject. I'm pro gay marriage when it is just about the couple but vote against it because it opens a can of worms when it comes to children. The baby sitter I had for my boys was gay. I'm not homophobic. I had no fear that he was going to "turn" my boys gay. I just think it is better to not go down that road as far as families are concerned.
"The only thing better than a Federal Reserve audit would be a Federal Reserve autopsy." ~ unknown
Uh. The people that you refer to KNOW not "believe" that being homosexual (not gay) makes them unfit to be parents. Anyone who doesn't know that is unfit to be an American. Screw the homosexualamerican lobby. I'm tired of hyphenated Americans.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
Then you are stupider then Obama.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
Everyone's marriage is a mixed bag, but so long as both parents are a united front for the children, that is what is most important of all. I don't have kids, but I can tell you that when my parents got a divorce it was the worst thing that could have happened since neither parent wanted to be a parent at all.
Better to be hated for what you are, than loved for what you are not.
How about engaging in conversation about it instead of being an ass? You make it obvious you didn't read the entire post or my other posts on this thread.
"The only thing better than a Federal Reserve audit would be a Federal Reserve autopsy." ~ unknown
Yeah, unless there is physical abuse going on I think the old fashion belief of staying together for the kids is the lesser of two evils.
"The only thing better than a Federal Reserve audit would be a Federal Reserve autopsy." ~ unknown
Even Obama isn't stupid enough to support what can never be. Gay marriage. Anyone who even uses the term is an idiot. A total idiot. (unless you are demonstrating the stupidity of the phrase).
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
Personally, I take the perspective of personal responsiblity. This person entered into a legal and binding agreement and she knew what that entailed. Then, she opted to bring a child into that union. Now she needs to take responsibility for her choices. I completely disagree with her taking that child on the run. We shouldn't run from problems, especially when they are of our own creation. I avoid that religious argument for the most part. Mostly, it's hypocritally finger pointing at one particular type of sinner while sinning in multiple other ways. I too am comflicted about gays raising children, more so gay men than gay women which may be completely biased......but it's still true for me. However, I have little sympathy for a woman who moved to a state simply to marry her gay lover and then changes are mind after they opt to have a baby together.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
I've seen people post derogatory things about you, now I know why. I'm like an elephant too, I never forget.
"The only thing better than a Federal Reserve audit would be a Federal Reserve autopsy." ~ unknown
Yeah, I think you and I are in agreement on this one. At least I don't see anything in your post I would disagree with. It is a sticky subject and hard for most to discuss in a rational matter.
"The only thing better than a Federal Reserve audit would be a Federal Reserve autopsy." ~ unknown
Don't be a fucking moron. Having a kid raised by queers is child abuse pure and simple. You shouldn't be able to have a legal agreement where clear cut child abuse in the result. Yeah I said having queers raise kids is child abuse. If you disagree then you support child abuse.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
If you support queers getting married. You are the problem and in no way whatsoever the solution. Please remember that.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
What grade are you in? Two women rubbing their tits and bushes together doesn't produce a baby.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
Reading comprehension lacking, asswipe? I never said that it did. What I said was this former carpet muncher rushed to a state for the umbrella of gay marriage and opted to bring a child into that union. Now, she should comply with the laws of that state that was once so great to "allow" her to marry her lover. The concept of personal responsibility for the choices one makes is obviously foreign to you. It's her bed and she should lie in it, not take a seven year old on the run to live as a fugitive. Some mother.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
No more abusive than having a child raised by an asswipe like you.......
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
NO NO NO....This is what you said. " I have little sympathy for a woman who moved to a state simply to marry her gay lover and then changes are mind after they opt to have a baby together. "
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
So you think that having two queers raise a kid is better then a man and a woman who sends them to private christian school and parents that teach them right from wrong? Now you really went and stepped in it.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
Yep that's what I said. This MARRIED couple opted for a sperm donor TOGETHER in a LEGAL and BINDING contract that states BOTH are parents of the child. It has nothing to do with "rubbing tits" or munching carpets, moron. It has to do with two legal and consenting adults entering into a BINDING contract and bringing a child into the union. Do you piss on your contractual agreements too? Do you rush to a state for the ability to enter into a contract then cry foul when the deal goes sour? Like I said, poor kid.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
That's not the issue, moron. Former carpet muncher isn't remarried and sending the kid to Christian School. She's taking the kid on the run to live as a fugative. She obviously doesn't know right from wrong. Hell, she can't even decide who she really wants to sleep with for crying out loud. If this former carpet muncher who uses her newly minted Christianity as a legal crutch is one half of the teaching of right and wrong, then you have not one iota of evidence to demonstrae the child is better off with her. Genes don't make a good mother. Biology, in this case, dicatates a high degree of idiocy that may not be best for the child.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
What are you talking about? I was responding to this "No more abusive than having a child raised by an asswipe like you....... "
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
That was my impression. Once again we agree.
"The only thing better than a Federal Reserve audit would be a Federal Reserve autopsy." ~ unknown
It has nothing to do with "rubbing tits" or munching carpets, moron. It has to do with two legal and consenting adults entering into a BINDING contract and bringing a child into the union. So you support people being to be able to make contracts that amount to child abuse? That's weirdo stuff. Next you are going to tell me that a contract with a hitman is legally binding.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
Next you are going to tell me that a contract with a hitman is legally binding. She went to that state to for that legally binding contract. If she was a child abuser when she was munching carpets and had that baby in womb, she's still the same damn abuser today. Oh wait, newly minted Christianity converts abusers........eyes rolling. Dead men don't tell tales. If the person is dead and the money changes hands the contract was binding. Maybe not legally, but certainly binding. The courts found no evidence the former wife was unfit to parent. This is your contention based on NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER. Just because you believe that all gays are child abusers doesn't make it a fact.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
You don't get it. Having a child raised by a queer is child abuse. It is emotional abuse. I don't think all queers abuse kids physically. I'm saying the law is wrong. People with good morals know that. I'm saying that there should be no such thing as gay adoption. It is a disqualifier to raise kids. If you don't understand that then you obviously have major morality problems. Laws are supposed to be based on right and wrong....morals.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
And you know this how? Where is your proof?
"The only thing better than a Federal Reserve audit would be a Federal Reserve autopsy." ~ unknown
How do you know it is wrong to steal or to kill someone? Where is your proof?
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
That's not an answer.
"The only thing better than a Federal Reserve audit would be a Federal Reserve autopsy." ~ unknown
And that is why there should no such thing as "gay marriage". For the sake of personal bliss and "in your face" satisfaction of homosexuals, children adopted or "artificially conceived" by these folks are scared for life by the nagging knowledge that their parents are having homosexual sex, and that at LEAST one of them are not their REAL parent. What ever happened to the concept of doing what's best in the interest of the child?
I don't think all queers abuse kids physically. I'm saying the law is wrong. People with good morals know that. I'm saying that there should be no such thing as gay adoption. It is a disqualifier to raise kids. If you don't understand that then you obviously have major morality problems. Laws are supposed to be based on right and wrong....morals. Emotional abuse? Again and opinion based on no evidence. Lots of laws are wrong. That doesn't mean you run like a fugative, especially when you willingly participated in the law you now deem to be wrong. People with any morals whatsoever know that. I would put my morals up against yours any day of the week, AKA Stone. A kid who is living in a hell hole of foster parents would disagree with you if offered a gay adoption that provided a stable home and an escape from the system. Until you walk in the shoes of such a child, you should shut your yap. You are naive if you think laws are based on right and wrong. There are a million laws on the books here in the land of the free and three quarters of them are not based on any morals whatsoever. How many unwanted kids have you adopted, Mr. Morality? Do you selectively adhere to only the laws inwhich you deem moral? Do you do anything to change laws that you deem immoral or do you just sit in judgment of others based on your particular religious dogma? This woman moved to a state just so she marry her gay lover and have a family. You have no problem with this choice made by her, no moral standing on her bahavior.......no, of course not, she's now a newly minted Christian who shouldn't have to take responsibility for her choices or adhere to "immoral" laws any longer.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
The time to think about that is PRIOR to having the child, not after you move to a state to have your gay marriage and secure your sperm donor. Just because one gay lover has a change of heart doesn't alter the contract or the rights. Gay marriage is already in this state, this argument is moot in this case. What is a REAL parent? Are adoptive children left with FAKE parents? Biology is not the best factor to determine ability to parent. Many mothers kill their children, many do not care for them as they should, many are too selfish to consider what is best for their children.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
There seems to be something fundamentally wrong with gay marriage. Two men or two women raising a child seems far worse. What's to say they're not pedophiles? Because they say they're not? The term 'homophobic' is just another PC mind-fuck, so don't anyone pull that one on me.
Torture is legal too.
Only while the War on Terror is in effect....../sarc.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
:-)
The CHILD had no say in that decision though did she. Her rights are SUPPOSED to be protected by the court, where the court in MOST states weigh their decisions largely on what is best for the child. The child should NOT be subjected to men having oral or anal sex in a bedroom next to theirs, or women having oral sex or playing with dildoes in an adjacent room. This child may not even KNOW that her real mother is or was a lesbain in the past, and exposing or revealing this info to her may very well traumatize her and screw her up for life. If forced to "visit" with this other woman, who perhaps might by now have another "girlfriend", who's to say she won't be having sex in a room close to the child's room, and making so much noice the child hears it? It's one thing if the other woman was a REAL parent, and not just some lesbain whom her mother had a relationship with in the past. The fact is, if you have read the story, this child lived with these two woman for a brief time as an infant, and more than likely doesn't even know this other woman, or thinks she was just her mom's friend if she does remember her at all. This other woman more than likely doesn't care one bit about the child, and is just using the court and the legal process to TORMENT this mother AND her child solely as a form of revenge for leaving her and hurting her feelings. If anything, this other woman may VERY WELL be interested in molesting the girl as FURTHER revenge against her former lover. Biology is not the best factor to determine ability to parent. Many mothers kill their children, many do not care for them as they should, many are too selfish to consider what is best for their children. So, you think a former gay lover with no ties at all to the child would be a better parent than the child's own mother who obviously loves her and is trying to protect her. Yeah ok, I'm sure the mother must be planning to kill her, that's what biological parents do. Maybe the state should just take all children from their parents, since parents kill their kids. Sheesh.
Maybe so, the courts think so. Her biological mother has made her a fugative and risks going to jail rather than compliance with the court. You say trying to protect, but from what? Her own sordid past? Her former carptet munching? Do you not believe that the truth sets you free? Do you not believe that people should take responsibility for the choices that they make? Do you believe that dishonesy and running from the law is the best choice for mother and child? I DON'T.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
So did you also approve of the way Elian Gonzalez was snatched up from his loving family here in the US and whisked off to Cuba? Do you think snatching up this little girl from her real mother and handing her to a practicing lesbain with NO EMOTIONAL TIE to this child will make her happy and well adjusted?
What it comes down to abraxas is that you appear to be of the opinion since the mother made a bad decision in her past, the child must be punished, simply because some lesbain wants some revenge against the child's mother. So what if this lesbain wishes to brainwash the child and start having sex with her, it's all cool, because in that state gay marriage is legal. If this were a case of heterosexual parents, with one adoptive parent being vindictive against the biological parent and seeking visitation or custody, the court would side with the biological parent if the child was the same sex, and perhaps with the adoptive parent if that parent was of the same sex as the child. However, in the case of homosexual parents, where one parent has shunned their homosexuality and is the biological parent, well I'd say that parent is most CERTAINLY the better parent and WILL do what is best for the child. Exposing the child to a perverse lifestyle against their will and the will of their natural parent can and more than likely WILL do irrepairable harm to the child, and destroy any hope for a normal life that child ever had.
I don't agree with how the goobermint handled that case. But this boy belonged with his father in Cuba. You actually think the boy should not have been placed with his father? You think just because he had some family in the US that the rights of the father should have been ignored? His father loved him and wanted to care for him, just because he was in Cuba doesn't make him unfit. I guess you prefer the rights of the father to be pissed on for the rights of the "loving family" who wanted to keep him from his father here in the US.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Well and that is my basic problem. As I said I don't have a problem when it is just the couple involved. But a legal marriage effect more than just the couple. I think I mentioned in one post that there is some evidence to support the idea that abuse is greater in homosexual homes. "The only thing better than a Federal Reserve audit would be a Federal Reserve autopsy." ~ unknown
There is no evidence to support this idiotic statement. I'm of the opinion that you take responsibility for your actions. Why is that this woman was good enough to be a parent when the two wives found a sperm donor and made up the nursery, but now she is no longer fit? Just because one mommy decides to not munch carpet anymore, the other one becomes unfit? Exactly, who made the bad decision? The fugitive mom on the run or the ex-wife fighting for her parental rights in court? The child is being punished by having to live as a fugitive. The child is being punished by having her hypocritical mother move her all over the country to run from mommies mistakes. Wow....that is really teaching some good morals, right? Just run from your mistakes. How does the ex-wife "want revenge" simply because she petitions to be a part of the life of the child? Again, you have no evidence to support this position. The court case indidcates that the former carpet muncher seeks revenge, not the other way around.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Homosexuals more likely to molest kids, study reports Homosexuals and the Pedophile Connection I have not much to say if two men or two women want to have sex or be together or whatever. That is to say, I disagree with it, but it's not really my business and this sort of thing is certainly not new and they'll do what they do anyway. However, a legal contract sanctioned by the State and/or Church is disagreeable. Yeah, it's no shock that there's a connection between homosexuality and pedophilia. lol
I'd say that Fidel Castro wanted the child more than his dad more than likely. It was a matter of the GOVERNMENT of Cuba wanting that kid, and without their involvement it never would have panned out the way it did. Oh hey, this is what little Elian is up to these days. Yeah, he was MUCH better off going to Cuba.... Elian Gonzalez Joins Cuba's Young Communist Union I didn't know you were such a fan of government involving themselves in people's personal lives...
Again with a baseless assumption. Come on, FormerLurker, you have no right to say that the father didn't want his child. Just as you do not know that heart of the ex-wife in this case who has spent a fortune working through the courts for her parental rights. All you know is that she is a lesbian, which in your mind, means she is an abuser and "unfit" to parent. Put the government of Cuba aside, are you saying that the father of Elian Gonzalez had no parental rights simply because he lived in Cuba? It's not a question of better off, it is a question of parental rights. Why is that so hard for you to comprehend? Like I said, I don't agree with how the goobermint handled that case. Are you suggesting the boy should have been severed from his father and the father should have had no right to redress the government for the return of his son? Do you support extraordinary rendition in child custody cases such as this? What was the boy's father to do? Give up because the "loving family" in the US wanted to keep his son?
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
I agree with your concern. Gay marriage is a legal gateway to adoption. As a society we are charged with protecting children. Permitting gay couples to adopt children flies in the face of society's primary responsibility to protect minors. Statistically when one looks at the % of gays in the general population and the rate of child abuse within that sector, it's an alarmingly high rate. But this rate of child abuse is conveniently omitted in any discussion about gay marriage "rights." From your first article link [ and I suspect the quoted abuse rate does not even include the Catholic Church homosexual priest pederest abuse cases] the stats should give a real world jolt to everyone, even the most idealistic left wing posters and lurkers: "Since heterosexuals outnumber the homosexual population about 44 to 1, as a group the incidence of homosexuals molesting children is up to 40 times greater than heterosexuals, she said."
A quick Google search proves you wrong... Why did he stay in Cuba when the rest of his family left? Apparently he loved Cuba more than he loved his kid.
You do not know that the ex-wife has "no emotional tie" to the child. A stable life, not on the run is a good start to happiness. Her mom on the run had been granted custody, with visitation granted to the ex-wife. Why is compliance out of the question? She couldn't prove the ex-wife unfit. If munching carpet makes on unfit, than mommy on the run is equally unfit. Teaching a kid to face mistakes head on is a good road to happiness, not stacking up a bunch of skeletons and dirty laundry in the closet or running from "mistakes" in life. This is true teaching toward well adjustment....mom on the run seems incapable of grasping such concepts.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Another baseless allegation to suit your own opinion about this case: According to the Washington Post, Elián's father Juan Miguel González Quintana had telephoned Lázaro from Cuba on November 22, 1999, to advise that Elián and his mother had left Cuba without Juan Miguel's knowledge, and to watch for their arrival. The father didn't even know until after the boy and his mother were at sea.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
I'm asking you for the evidence in regards to THIS LESBIAN, not gay men who are parenting. As I previoulsy stated, I'm bias about gay men adopting and I feel it does put children at risk. Now, cough up the evidence that this woman in this case is unfit to parent and intends to turn the little girl into a carpet muncher. The court couldn't find any evidence, but you continue to make these idiotic statements. EVIDENCE FOR THIS CASE is the request at hand.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
So abraxas, while THIS particular woman may or may not have an interest in molesting young girls, the chances are HIGH that she does. For that very reason the court should have sided with the biological mother who has renounced the gay lifestyle and is trying to give her child a normal life. Regardless, it is for this very reason the government should either NOT allow gay adoption or simply refuse to allow gay marriages in the first place since it can and does lead to serious issues far worse than those involved in normal divorces when things don't work out. I could care less about either the mother or her former lover, I care about the true victim here and that is this innocent little girl. Do you think this little 7 year-old should be torn from her actual mother whom she's lived with her entire life, and be forced to live with a woman living a perverse lifestyle, whom the child doesn't even know? Regardless if the woman is a molestor nor not, this still isn't right.
Perhaps because he was against leaving in the first place, and the mother couldn't trust telling him ahead of time that she was planning on leaving.
The child was two years old when she last saw the lesbain lover, and probably doesn't even remember her. She is now 7, probably in 2nd grade, and more interested in Hello Kitty, her friends at school, and being with her mother rather than hanging out with a stranger who used to lick her mother's vagina.
Do you think this little 7 year-old should be torn from her actual mother whom she's lived with her entire life, and be forced to live with a woman living a perverse lifestyle, whom the child doesn't even know? Again, this is your opinion, not a fact. Who is responsible for the court's decision? Mom on the run. A mother who wants to protect her child would have considered the consequences of her actions, from beginning to end. All this fighting and moving to keep the ex- wife from the child couldn't have been healthy or in any way promoted well adjustment. Do you run from your mistakes? I don't and I won't give a free pass for mom on the run to do this either. As a mother, I find her actions dispicable. She put her child in this position under the guise of being a "Christian" and as is the case in life, each action has a consequence. When the police track her down and her child is taken from her, she will have no one to blame but herself.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Common sense dictates that this little girl is better off with her mother rather than a stranger whom her mother used to have gay sex with.
Probably not in school at all since she and her mother are now fugatives. Had her mother complied with court orders, this woman wouldn't be a stranger nor would she have been granted full custody of the child.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
If this other woman cared about the child at all, she would have backed off and allowed the child to live a normal life.
Why? There is mounting evidence that mom on the run isn't all that stable or rational or intelligent.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Had her mother complied with court orders, this woman wouldn't be a stranger nor would she have been granted full custody of the child. Had the court used reasonable sense and not tried to force the girl to visit with a vindictive lesbain in the first place, or if the vindicitive lesbain actually gave a shit about the child, none of this would be happening.
What evidence, your words? Are you a parent, or do you just pass judgement on them?
There is no evidence that the child would "live a normal life" with former carpet munching mommy. None. Maybe the ex-wife has hung on this long, fighting in court because mommy on the run isn't all that normal herself. Did you ever consider that?
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Are you a parent, or do you just pass judgement on them? Making her child a fugative. Showing her child that running from mistakes is the correct course of action. Uprooting this child from all the homes that she has known. Pushing religious fundamentalism on her child to atone for her own sins. Using her newly minted Christianity as an excuse to ignore the courts. Yes, I'm a parent.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
It is an answer, and a question. Your just stunned because it has left you showing yourself as an utter fool on this matter. You do not understand the laws of nature and natures God. It is not my job to educate you.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
No, it is NOT an opinion that this little girl has little or no recollection of this other woman, she was TWO years old when she last saw her, and more than likely thinks she was just a friend of her mom. If the other parent had been a man, and the biological mother took off with the kid, there would be little or no action on the part of the government to track the mother down and force her to cough up the child. It's only because it's a gay matter that this is getting so much attention and the government becomes so concerned and actually acts as if it cares about a "parent's rights".
Mom on the run asked the court to determine custody. She brought the court case and fled the state, hoping to have the laws of another state apply. Funny, you don't see any personal responsiblity for the actions of mom on the run.........she's just a poor victim of her own stupidity. How liberal of you, FL. Blame everybody else for this woman's stupidity.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Lurker you are about the only one with morals and common sense on this matter.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
So I guess if the government told you to hand over your kid to someone you feel is a threat to your child's safety and psychological well-being, whom you know is doing such a thing out of pure spite and revenge, you'd happily comply. Glad I'm not your kid.
You support child abuse and pedophiles. Disgusting.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
I already told you I could care less about EITHER "former partner", it's the little girl I'm concerned about. If the mom was smart she would have asked for a Guardian Ad Litem for her daughter, in order to stand up for the child's rights in court.
We don't always (in fact seldom) agree on things here Stone, but here we're obviously on the same page.
Your the liberal. Queer pretend marriage is their issue. It seems to be the cause of your life. You are so passionate on this subject.....disgusting.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
Are you saying that parents do not bond with a child who is two and under? Are you saying the child doesn't bond with parents prior to the age of two. I'm here to tell you that you're wrong. Bonding on both sides is firmly established. What is this "just a friend of her mom" crap? The two women were married, made a nursery together, changed diapers together, got up 2 am for feedings, ooohed and aaahhhed of over the first smile, first crawling, first steps. You're not a parent are you? That's a sad commentary if you think that dad's can't get action for their parental rights in court. That says more about our crappy system than the merits of this case.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Had her mother complied with court orders, this woman wouldn't be a stranger nor would she have been granted full custody of the child. When the govt tells you to turn in your guns. You better comply or you will be a very bad person. very very bad.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
What a stupid analogy!! I'm not an idiot like this former carpet muncher who has never proven any threat to her child's safety or psychological danger in regards to her ex-wife. No, I don't carry on with court battles based on revenge and spite like this mom on the run. If I ask the court to determine a case, I respect the court's decision.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
I would wager that we have more common interests then not. I just state mine in a more mean and shocking manner.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
Hey you stupid fuck. THEY WERE NEVER MARRIED. Dumbass.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
Read the article again abraxas. It was the jilted lesbain who initiated the court battle, not the mother. "Jenkins sued for unsupervised visitation, which Vermont Judge William Cohen granted after dissolving the civil union" Jenkins is not the child's mother, she is the jilted gay lover.
Just when I think that analogies couldn't get any more stupid.....you prove me wrong. This isn't a second amendment issue. This former carpet muncher moved to this state to be a part of it's gay marriage promotion. Oh, but now she changed her mind so the law should no longer apply to her. I live in open carry states. I wouldn't live in an anti-second amendment state, which is also the most likely states to promote gay marriage.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the BLESSINGS of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. What does blessing mean?
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
You read it again. The court decision was part of the initial splitting of the sheets: Jenkins sued for unsupervised visitation, which Vermont Judge William Cohen granted after dissolving the civil union, but Miller refused to comply with the court order. When you file your motion and go through the divorce courts, it is customary to determine child custody and visitation at that time.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Your point? This is referring to a blessing of liberty and prosperity. However, you think liberty only applies to some of the people some of the time when you deem that interpretation of liberty to be in line with your interpretation of morality.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
lol......your panties are so tightly knotted. Civil unions in Vermont. So touchy about symantics.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Are you saying that parents do not bond with a child who is two and under? I'm not looking at the bond this other woman may have felt towards the little girl, but that of whatever bond the little girl may have felt towards this woman. I'd say it's probably a safe bet that the girl bonded with her natural mother rather than this other woman who was just "playing" mommy. What is this "just a friend of her mom" crap? The two women were married, made a nursery together, changed diapers together, got up 2 am for feedings, ooohed and aaahhhed of over the first smile, first crawling, first steps. How do YOU know this other woman did all that? Maybe she didn't give two shits about the kid, ignored her, mistreated her, and that might be why the girl's real mother left. Or she MIGHT have been as you say, thing is, the girl is SEVEN YEARS OLD at this point, and should not be forced to live with a woman who is NOT related to her in any way, especially one who MAY want her for unsavory sexual delights. That's a sad commentary if you think that dad's can't get action for their parental rights in court. In interstate matters, women can kidnap children to other states and there is not ONE thing the government will do to recover them, well not in USUAL cases that is...
Hence why there should NOT be gay marriage or gay adoption.
Blessings come from God. We can't be blessed as a nation when we violate Gods Laws. Ever heard of Sodom and Gomorrah?
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
That would have come out in court and the court would have decided for mommy on the run. The court found the ex-wife to be FIT to parent. Mommy on the run had no case other than "newly minted Christian" which didn't get her too far.You simply do not have any evidence to substantiate your opinions, yet you keep making them over and over again to the giddy delight of AKA Stone. Lucky you to have a new admirer.: P
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
There will never be gay marriage. Even if the govt says there is. Also...Gays shouldn't even be allowed to be near kids (teachers) or look at them.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
Jenkins sued for unsupervised visitation And Jenkins did not HAVE to SUE for UNSUPERVISED visitation. Apparently there was already some concern on the part of the child's mother if Jenkins had to ask for UNSUPERVISED visitation. What it comes down to is a lesbain wants this kid, and you feel the need to support her actions and allow her to do whatever she wants with the child, to hell with the kid's life or dreams.
When referring to me get it right. There are spaces between the K and the A's. Thank You in advance.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
Do you have transcripts? Do you have the reports from whatever agency may have investigated? I've seen courts hand kids off to EXTREMELY unfit parents, so you have ZERO idea of how fit this other woman is, you are just stating your opinions or hunches as if they were facts.
Why don't you read the Sermon on the Mount? That would be much more relevant to what is expected of you as a Christian than the Old Testement story of Sodom and Gomorrah. This is the words of your savior, which you rarely seem to apply to real life. Go read. "But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you...." Sayeth your Savior. Work on being a better Christian yourself before you attempt to teach anybody else the way.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
lol........this will be at the top of my priorty list.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
What did he say about harming children? Didn't think you would quote that one.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
Thank you. Appreciated.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
I'm arriving late, obviously. But, thank you for that revelation. Now how about a couple of more? What is your gender? What is your sexual preference? What is your occupation?
Turning and turning in the widening gyre The falcon cannot hear the falconer; Things fall apart; the center cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world, The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity. .... Yeats
I still haven't seen an iota of evidence of harming children.......other than making her a fugative.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
What is your sexual preference? What is your occupation? Female. My preference is men. I don't see how my profession is relevant to this discussion.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
I always thought you were a guy. Who knew? I'm finding out a lot of people on this site are actually women. I'm surprised there isn't more online dating going on. Heheheheheh.
It's never to early to stop a tyrant, nor is it ever to late to stand against Tyranny.
Just me.....and now you. lol We women are full of surpises.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Uh... You misunderstood. I'm a guy
It's never to early to stop a tyrant, nor is it ever to late to stand against Tyranny.
hehehe.....I wasn't including you in that we, Tommy. That was the we that includes all the women posting on LP that you thought were men. : )
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Of course now that she has fled with her child she will probably loose everything.
------- WTF. Now that your secret is out... I might flirt with you.
------- Now, according the the great state that granted her wish to marry her lesbian lover, what she wants today is not as relevant has what she wanted a couple of years ago when she married her wife. Be careful what you wish for, eh? Vermont used to be so darn great when it gave her what she wanted and now it's aweful because if doesn't grant her new wishes that support her new beliefs. Doesn't matter that now she no longer wants the child around her former gay lover. It matters what her initial intentions were regarding this child and her ex-wife, according to the court. Yep, she will probably loose everything.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Now that your secret is out... I might flirt with you. I must not be nagging enough on my posts. Maybe a few emotional outbursts would help. Oh, and an occasional tirade at least once a month for good measure. lol I'm all a blush. : )
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Good point. Actually, it depends on the state. In some states a woman can screw around while she is married, yet her husband is still on the hook for child support even if the baby isn't his.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
I still haven't seen an iota of evidence of harming children.......other than making her a fugative. Your confused. I understand there are a lot of posts. The "he" in my comment was God. What did God say about harming children?
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
Ah... The feminine We, as opposed to the other. No worries. Still recovering from last nights 2 beer drunken-ness.
It's never to early to stop a tyrant, nor is it ever to late to stand against Tyranny.
My guess was lawyer.
Turning and turning in the widening gyre The falcon cannot hear the falconer; Things fall apart; the center cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world, The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity. .... Yeats
What....your not a dude?
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
Well, I agree that would be relevant to this discussion. I did work for a lawfirm for years, which impacts my perspective. I tend to look at the aspects of this case without the religious dogma and view Miller as using religious dogma to make her case, which is legally weak. A few facts are pertinent. Miller moved to Virginia and filed suit AFTER Virginia initiated a law that specifically does not recogonize civil unions. Initially, she moved from Virginia to Vermont because Vermont recognized civil unions and allowed her to marry her same sex lover. I say the initial move and contract entered into sets precedent. The two agreed on visitation and support initially. Jenkins paid child support to Miller prior to Miller filing for sole custody rights in Virginia. Miller cashed the checks. Miller also had Jenkins help pick out the sperm donor as well as help pay for the procedure and pregnancy. Then she had a religious "conversion" and moved to a state that had a pending law to nullify the rights of her previously entered into civil union. She promptly filed to terminate the rights of her ex-wife. A lower court agreed, but a higher court went with Jenkins on appeal. Miller states that Jenkins hasn't seen the child in years, but this is only due to that fact that Miller refuses to comply with the court order and visitation schedule. Now, due to her contempt of court sole custody of the child has been granted to Jenkins.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
You are a classic example of why not to let women vote.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
Not a dude. Fucking moron wasn't it?
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Are you kidding me you f@ck@n moron? A woman cannot have a wife. Why do you queers have to try to pervert the language. If you want to go down on women then by all means do it. But quit fucking pretending that a woman can marry a woman.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
Why is that? Because I actually think state rights matter, unlike you who think people can hop from one state to the next to promote whatever legal case they might have pending. Because you think that religious dogma makes a case? Oh, that's right, you think all laws are moral.......lol. All laws are connected to God, right? I think I need not present any further evidence on my case that you are not equipped with enough intelligence to determine who should be voting and who should not.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Your the moron who can't even tell me why murder and stealing is wrong. You have made the case that you are a POS brain dead liberal and possibly a homosexual woman who goes down on little girls.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
Oh, yes, we return again to the symantics issue. Partner in civil union. Why are you calling me a queer, asswipe? You continue to astound me with your ignorance.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
What's your evidence of this asswipe? I'm no liberal. In fact, I am the one promoting RESPONSIBILITY for actions and contracts entered into. You, on the other hand, take the liberal argument that she doesn't have to live up to her obligations any longer because she has a new religion. What a pant load. Maybe with all your anger toward homosexuals, it is you who are expressing your own short coming in regards to this issue. Look how emotional you get....lol. Having a tirade, spewing insults, making vulgar accusations in an attempt to piss me off (which isn't working dimwit).......it's all so Christian of you.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Because you are likely a closeted queer. You just don't want to admit it here because of the fallout you would receive. Anyone who champtions the cause of queers like you do is very likely a queer. There is an 8 percent chance that you are not one.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
You are a liberal. By your support of queer "marriage" you have shown yourself to be a liberal. Quit pretending your not.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
Some degrees of murder are, in fact, not wrong at all, not legally and not morally. Self defense ring a bell asswipe? Why don't you tell me how this particular type of murder is wrong.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
That is laughable. You are not promoting responsibility. No one who is responsible would support perversion of words. Of having kids raised by perverts. You are promoting perversion. You are promoting changing meaning of words to promote a queer agenda. You are promoting child abuse.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
I support the state of Vermont in making such determinations, but I sure don't live in Vermont. I guess you think you should dictate the laws of all the states, on your "astute" determination of what is moral and right.......lol. Do tell what state you live in so that I can put it on my list of states I will not live in......right after Vermont.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
You still didn't tell me why murder is wrong. And no asswipe all killing isn't murder. Here is another test to prove you are a liberal. Do you support child murder? (you might use the word abortion or pro choice to rationalize away evil).
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
Blow me over with your never ending ignorance. She went to Vermont for her union, now she can abide by the court ruling on the side of Vermont's civil union. That's taking responsibility, which I support completely. You are promoting idiocy. What child abuse? What perversion am I supporting?
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Did you already forget what we are talking about? Here let me refresh your tiny little brain. You support queers raising children....that is child abuse. Your queer agenda is all about harming children. You are an enemy of kids. I was being generous with the 8 percent number. Your odds of being a normal hetrosexual woman has declined to 4 percent.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
I was being generous with the 8 percent number. Your odds of being a normal hetrosexual woman has declined to 4 percent. I'm again astounded by your idiocy. Now it's a "queer agenda" conspiracy. Oh, and now it's "an enemy of kids". Yawn. Somebody needs to whack you up side the head with a clue by four. Gee, hate to break it to you, but your opinion of me is less relevant the belly button lint. You really are too ignorant to be placing bets and setting odds. Stick with your hypocricy, something you are actually good at.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Caution fellas, you in particular, Armadillo. The link may provide us with a clue to Ms. abraxas' unique perspective. ;-) Turning and turning in the widening gyre The falcon cannot hear the falconer; Things fall apart; the center cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world, The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity. .... Yeats
lol.....iconoclast, if you wish to know where I picked up this handle all you had to do was ask. When I logged onto 4um initially, I happened to be reading Jung's Seven Sermons of the Dead. By the Seventh sermon, the meaning is clear. All this projection as to what Abraxas is or is not, the fear and the confusion, it's all within every human. Man can't overcome what he refuses to accept or continually projects blame onto others and that's the main gist of the Seven Sermons. Abraxas is a scapegoat. Other legend has it that Abraxas is the Lord of the frogs and I've always been fond of frogs. Frightening, eh?
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
No, but a little off-putting. ;-)
Turning and turning in the widening gyre The falcon cannot hear the falconer; Things fall apart; the center cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world, The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity. .... Yeats
I was planning to post a harsh refutation of everything Abraxas believes, but I guess I wont. Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I try to be nice to women. Just kidding. Abraxas is still Abraxas regardless of genital configuration. ------- lol......so true. EEK!! There is no escape or relief from this dastardly poster known as Abraxas. Run!! Run for your lives!! Armadillos are tough and harsh. I feel I have narrowly escaped the wrath of a Dillo today. Thanks, Dillo. : )
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
This is a bearded Dillo. They are more friendly. Fun to play with too.
"The only thing better than a Federal Reserve audit would be a Federal Reserve autopsy." ~ unknown
LOL. ------- I had a sneaky suspicion, Dillo. : ) Crabs are like that too........and I know a thing or two about crabs.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
#2. To: Original_Intent (#1)
However, they can be nasty and vindictive.
#3. To: farmfriend (#2)
#4. To: farmfriend (#0)
Miller's appeals in both states were unsuccessful, but she remained in contempt. As a result, in November the court awarded Jenkins sole custody.
#5. To: abraxas (#4)
She had a child with the woman.
Lord Acton
#6. To: James Deffenbach (#5)
I can't disagree with her taking the child and going wherever she has to so that this other woman has no contact with the child.
#7. To: abraxas (#6)
even if she is still munching carpets, at least she isn't confused and vindictive.
Lord Acton
#8. To: James Deffenbach (#7)
uh, the fact, if it is a fact, that she is "still munching carpets" tells me that she is confused. As for vindictive, I would bet you anything I have that that is a major reason for the court case. And the fact was, and is, that no matter how long they might have stayed together, they would NEVER have had children together.
#9. To: abraxas (#4)
That doesn't make her mother of the year.
she is using her Christianity as a feeble excuse to be vindictive.
#10. To: farmfriend (#9)
I think they are both being vindictive.
#11. To: abraxas (#10)
#12. To: abraxas (#8)
Do you think that all non-biological parents should have their parental rights revoked if the biological parent converts to Christianity? Do you think that people should be excused from state laws because of religious conversion? Mom on the run went to court and lost her case.......she should have thought about that while planning a family with her lesbian wife.
Lord Acton
#13. To: James Deffenbach (#12)
When a person realizes that they have made a mistake would you condemn them to live forever with that mistake? I wouldn't.
#14. To: abraxas, farmfriend (#13)
Does the other mother have no rights simply becuase she is gay? Why does mom on the run feel the need to omit this persom whom she deemed a fit parent from the life of this child? Could it be because she wants to keep her lesbian life a secret?
She is the equivalent of a step parent.
"Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known."
-Carl Sagan.
#15. To: Armadillo, abraxas (#14)
Lord Acton
#16. To: James Deffenbach (#15)
I would make the point that while the states, indeed the federal government, may make just about anything "legal," that does not, in and of itself, make it lawful.
#17. To: Armadillo (#14)
In any other divorce, should the child go with its biological parent or its step-parent? Unless the biological parent is unfit, I see no reason why the non-biological parent has any claim on the child.
#18. To: abraxas (#16)
She was all for the legality of her union when she married her lesbian lover.
Lord Acton
#19. To: farmfriend (#0)
#20. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#19)
What this does, is create a situation in the future, where our courts will have a lot more of this to deal with.
#21. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#19)
The courts will see fit that the woman who is not a biological parent to remove her from the equation, as she is nothing more than an acquaintance, not a parent.
#22. To: abraxas, Armadillo (#17)
Unless the non-biological parent is deemed unifit,
#23. To: farmfriend (#22)
And that is the problem. Many people believe that being gay automatically makes them unfit.
#24. To: farmfriend (#22)
I'm pro gay marriage
#25. To: farmfriend (#20)
#26. To: A K A Stone (#24)
Then you are stupider then Obama.
#27. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#25)
#28. To: farmfriend (#26)
#29. To: farmfriend (#22)
#30. To: A K A Stone (#28)
#31. To: abraxas (#29)
#32. To: abraxas (#29)
Personally, I take the perspective of personal responsiblity. This person entered into a legal and binding agreement and she knew what that entailed. Then, she opted to bring a child into that union.
#33. To: farmfriend (#30)
I've seen people post derogatory things about you, now I know why. I'm like an elephant too, I never forget.
#34. To: abraxas (#29)
then changes are mind after they opt to have a baby together.
#35. To: A K A Stone (#34)
Two women rubbing their tits and bushes together doesn't produce a baby.
#36. To: A K A Stone (#32)
Don't be a fucking moron. Having a kid raised by queers is child abuse pure and simple
#37. To: abraxas (#35)
Reading comprehension lacking, asswipe? I never said that it did. What I said was this former carpet muncher rushed to a state for the umbrella of gay marriage and opted to bring a child into that union. Now, she should comply with the laws of that state that was once so great to "allow" her to marry her lover.
#38. To: abraxas (#36)
No more abusive than having a child raised by an asswipe like you.......
#39. To: A K A Stone (#37)
" I have little sympathy for a woman who moved to a state simply to marry her gay lover and then changes are mind after they opt to have a baby together. "
#40. To: A K A Stone (#38)
So you think that having two queers raise a kid is better then a man and a woman who sends them to private christian school and parents that teach them right from wrong
#41. To: abraxas (#40)
#42. To: abraxas (#35)
Reading comprehension lacking, asswipe?
#43. To: abraxas (#39)
Yep that's what I said. This MARRIED couple opted for a sperm donor TOGETHER in a LEGAL and BINDING contract that states BOTH are parents of the child.
#44. To: A K A Stone (#43)
So you support people being to be able to make contracts that amount to child abuse? That's weirdo stuff.
#45. To: abraxas (#44)
#46. To: A K A Stone, abraxas (#45)
You don't get it. Having a child raised by a queer is child abuse. It is emotional abuse.
#47. To: farmfriend (#46)
And you know this how? Where is your proof?
#48. To: A K A Stone (#47)
#49. To: abraxas (#6)
The child was conceived in a legal marital union, granting parental rights.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#50. To: A K A Stone (#45)
Having a child raised by a queer is child abuse. It is emotional abuse.
#51. To: FormerLurker (#49)
What ever happened to the concept of doing what's best in the interest of the child?
#52. To: farmfriend (#0)
"The trouble with people is not that they don't know but that they know so much that ain't so." ~ Josh Billings
#53. To: abraxas (#51)
Gay marriage is already in this state, this argument is moot in this case.
"The trouble with people is not that they don't know but that they know so much that ain't so." ~ Josh Billings
#54. To: wudidiz (#53)
Torture is legal too.
#55. To: abraxas (#54)
Only while the War on Terror is in effect....../sarc.
"The trouble with people is not that they don't know but that they know so much that ain't so." ~ Josh Billings
#56. To: abraxas (#51)
(Edited)
The time to think about that is PRIOR to having the child
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#57. To: FormerLurker (#56)
So, you think a former gay lover with no ties at all to the child would be a better parent than the child's own mother who obviously loves her and is trying to protect her.
#58. To: abraxas (#57)
Maybe so, the courts think so. Her biological mother has made her a fugative and risks going to jail rather than compliance with the court.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#59. To: abraxas (#57)
You say trying to protect, but from what? Her own sordid past? Her former carptet munching? Do you not believe that the truth sets you free? Do you not believe that people should take responsibility for the choices that they make? Do you believe that dishonesy and running from the law is the best choice for mother and child? I DON'T.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#60. To: abraxas (#57)
(Edited)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#61. To: FormerLurker (#58)
So did you also approve of the way Elian Gonzalez was snatched up from his loving family here in the US and whisked off to Cuba?
#62. To: wudidiz, abraxas (#52)
There seems to be something fundamentally wrong with gay marriage. Two men or two women raising a child seems far worse. What's to say they're not pedophiles?
#63. To: FormerLurker (#60)
So what if this lesbain wishes to brainwash the child and start having sex with her, it's all cool, because in that state gay marriage is legal.
#64. To: farmfriend (#62)
Well and that is my basic problem. As I said I don't have a problem when it is just the couple involved. But a legal marriage effect more than just the couple. I think I mentioned in one post that there is some evidence to support the idea that abuse is greater in homosexual homes.
"The trouble with people is not that they don't know but that they know so much that ain't so." ~ Josh Billings
#65. To: abraxas (#61)
His father loved him and wanted to care for him, just because he was in Cuba doesn't make him unfit.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#66. To: FormerLurker (#65)
I'd say that Fidel Castro wanted the child more than his dad more than likely.
#67. To: farmfriend (#62)
As I said I don't have a problem when it is just the couple involved... I think I mentioned in one post that there is some evidence to support the idea that abuse is greater in homosexual homes.
#68. To: abraxas (#63)
There is no evidence to support this idiotic statement.
A paedophile ring has been smashed after eight men were found guilty of a horrifying catalogue of more than 50 child pornography and abuse charges. Among the crimes was a shocking sexual attack carried out on a three-month-old baby boy by an executive adviser on child sex issues. James Rennie, chief executive of a publicly-funded gay rights group, was one of the men exposed yesterday as members of Scotland's biggest paedophile ring. Rennie, 38, molested the toddler son of unsuspecting friends - a little boy he had been trusted to babysit - recording the abuse and sharing it with other perverts. In the course of the police investigation, the boy's parents were forced to watch a video of their baby son being violated by Rennie.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#69. To: abraxas (#66)
Come on, FormerLurker, you have no right to say that the father didn't want his child.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#70. To: FormerLurker (#59)
Do you think snatching up this little girl from her real mother and handing her to a practicing lesbain with NO EMOTIONAL TIE to this child will make her happy and well adjusted?
#71. To: FormerLurker (#69)
Why did he stay in Cuba when the rest of his family left? Apparently he loved Cuba more than he loved his kid.
#72. To: FormerLurker (#68)
There is no evidence to support this idiotic statement.
#73. To: abraxas (#63)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#74. To: abraxas (#71)
The father didn't even know until after the boy and his mother were at sea.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#75. To: abraxas (#70)
(Edited)
You do not know that the ex-wife has "no emotional tie" to the child.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#76. To: FormerLurker (#73)
So abraxas, while THIS particular woman may or may not have an interest in molesting young girls, the chances are HIGH that she does.
#77. To: abraxas (#72)
EVIDENCE FOR THIS CASE is the request at hand.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#78. To: FormerLurker (#75)
She is now 7, probably in 2nd grade
#79. To: abraxas (#76)
Who is responsible for the court's decision? Mom on the run.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#80. To: FormerLurker (#77)
Common sense dictates that this little girl is better off with her mother rather than a stranger whom her mother used to have gay sex with.
#81. To: abraxas (#78)
Probably not in school at all since she and her mother are now fugatives.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#82. To: abraxas (#80)
There is mounting evidence that mom on the run isn't all that stable or rational or intelligent.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#83. To: FormerLurker (#79)
If this other woman cared about the child at all, she would have backed off and allowed the child to live a normal life.
#84. To: FormerLurker (#82)
What evidence, your words?
#85. To: farmfriend (#48)
#86. To: abraxas (#76)
Again, this is your opinion, not a fact.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#87. To: FormerLurker (#81)
Had the court used reasonable sense and not tried to force the girl to visit with a vindictive lesbain in the first place, or if the vindicitive lesbain actually gave a shit about the child, none of this would be happening.
#88. To: FormerLurker (#60)
What it comes down to abraxas is that you appear to be of the opinion since the mother made a bad decision in her past, the child must be punished, simply because some lesbain wants some revenge against the child's mother.
#89. To: abraxas (#84)
Yes, I'm a parent.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#90. To: abraxas (#63)
#91. To: abraxas (#87)
How liberal of you, FL. Blame everybody else for this woman's stupidity.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#92. To: A K A Stone (#88)
Lurker you are about the only one with morals and common sense on this matter.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#93. To: abraxas (#87)
How liberal of you
#94. To: FormerLurker (#86)
No, it is NOT an opinion that this little girl has little or no recollection of this other woman, she was TWO years old when she last saw her, and more than likely thinks she was just a friend of her mom.
#95. To: abraxas (#78)
Probably not in school at all since she and her mother are now fugatives.
#96. To: FormerLurker (#89)
So I guess if the government told you to hand over your kid to someone you feel is a threat to your child's safety and psychological well-being, whom you know is doing such a thing out of pure spite and revenge, you'd happily comply
#97. To: FormerLurker (#92)
We don't always (in fact seldom) agree on things here Stone,
#98. To: abraxas (#94)
The two women were married,
#99. To: abraxas (#96)
No, I don't carry on with court battles based on revenge and spite like this mom on the run. If I ask the court to determine a case, I respect the court's decision.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#100. To: A K A Stone (#95)
When the govt tells you to turn in your guns. You better comply or you will be a very bad person. very very bad.
#101. To: abraxas (#100)
#102. To: FormerLurker (#99)
Read the article again abraxas. It was the jilted lesbain who initiated the court battle, not the mother.
#103. To: A K A Stone (#101)
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the BLESSINGS of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
#104. To: A K A Stone (#98)
Hey you stupid fuck. THEY WERE NEVER MARRIED. Dumbass.
#105. To: abraxas (#94)
(Edited)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#106. To: abraxas (#102)
When you file your motion and go through the divorce courts, it is customary to determine child custody and visitation at that time.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#107. To: abraxas (#103)
Your point?
#108. To: FormerLurker (#105)
How do YOU know this other woman did all that? Maybe she didn't give two shits about the kid, ignored her, mistreated her, and that might be why the girl's real mother left.
#109. To: FormerLurker (#106)
Hence why there should NOT be gay marriage or gay adoption.
#110. To: abraxas (#102)
You read it again. The court decision was part of the initial splitting of the sheets:
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#111. To: abraxas (#108)
over again to the giddy delight of AKA Stone.
#112. To: abraxas (#108)
The court found the ex-wife to be FIT to parent.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#113. To: A K A Stone (#107)
Blessings come from God. We can't be blessed as a nation when we violate Gods Laws. Ever heard of Sodom and Gomorrah?
#114. To: A K A Stone (#111)
When referring to me get it right. There are spaces between the K and the A's. Thank You in advance.
#115. To: abraxas (#113)
"But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you...." Sayeth your Savior.
#116. To: abraxas (#114)
lol........this will be at the top of my priorty list.
#117. To: abraxas (#84)
Yes, I'm a parent.
#118. To: A K A Stone (#115)
What did he say about harming children?
#119. To: iconoclast (#117)
What is your gender?
#120. To: abraxas (#119)
#121. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#120)
Who knew? I'm finding out a lot of people on this site are actually women. I'm surprised there isn't more online dating going on. Heheheheheh.
#122. To: abraxas (#121)
#123. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#122)
Uh... You misunderstood. I'm a guy
#124. To: abraxas (#17)
In any other divorce, the non biological parent would have rights to the child.
Not true.
Step-parents often have no legal rights to the child.
If the biological parent is fit, and the other parent is non-biological and has not adopted the child... blood goes with blood.
Because of the mothers beliefs (newly minted is moot) she did not want her child with her former gay lover. She is the mother, it's her decision.
"Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known."
-Carl Sagan.
#125. To: abraxas (#119)
Female.
My preference is men.
I also thought you were male.
You post like a man. ;)
"Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known."
-Carl Sagan.
#126. To: Armadillo (#124)
Because of the mothers beliefs (newly minted is moot) she did not want her child with her former gay lover. She is the mother, it's her decision. Of course now that she has fled with her child she will probably loose everything.
#127. To: Armadillo (#125)
WTF. I also thought you were male. You post like a man. ;)
#128. To: Armadillo (#124)
Not true. Step-parents often have no legal rights to the child. If the biological parent is fit, and the other parent is non-biological and has not adopted the child... blood goes with blood.
#129. To: abraxas (#118)
What did he say about harming children?
#130. To: abraxas (#123)
#131. To: abraxas (#119)
I don't see how my profession is relevant to this discussion.
#132. To: abraxas (#121)
#133. To: iconoclast (#131)
My guess was lawyer.
#134. To: abraxas (#133)
#135. To: A K A Stone (#132)
What....your not a dude?
#136. To: abraxas (#133)
She promptly filed to terminate the rights of her ex-wife.
#137. To: A K A Stone (#134)
You are a classic example of why not to let women vote.
#138. To: abraxas (#137)
#139. To: A K A Stone (#136)
Are you kidding me you f@ck@n moron? A woman cannot have a wife. Why do you queers have to try to pervert the language. If you want to go down on women then by all means do it. But quit fucking pretending that a woman can marry a woman.
#140. To: A K A Stone (#138)
You have made the case that you are a POS brain dead liberal and possibly a homosexual woman who goes down on little girls.
#141. To: abraxas (#139)
#142. To: abraxas (#140)
What's your evidence of this asswipe? I'm no liberal.
#143. To: A K A Stone (#138)
Your the moron who can't even tell me why murder and stealing is wrong
#144. To: abraxas (#140)
I am the one promoting RESPONSIBILITY
#145. To: A K A Stone (#142)
You are a liberal. By your support of queer "marriage" you have shown yourself to be a liberal. Quit pretending your not.
#146. To: abraxas (#143)
Some degrees of murder are, in fact, not wrong at all, not legally and not morally. Self defense ring a bell asswipe? Why don't you tell me how this particular type of murder is wrong.
#147. To: A K A Stone (#144)
That is laughable. You are not promoting responsibility. No one who is responsible would support perversion of words. Of having kids raised by perverts. You are promoting perversion. You are promoting changing meaning of words to promote a queer agenda
#148. To: abraxas (#147)
What child abuse? What perversion am I supporting?
#149. To: A K A Stone (#148)
You support queers raising children....that is child abuse. Your queer agenda is all about harming children. You are an enemy of kids.
#150. To: Armadillo, ALL (#125)
(Edited)
Now that your secret is out... I might flirt with you
#151. To: iconoclast (#150)
#152. To: abraxas (#151)
Other legend has it that Abraxas is the Lord of the frogs and I've always been fond of frogs. Frightening, eh?
#153. To: iconoclast, farmfriend (#150)
Caution fellas, you in particular, Armadillo.
"Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known."
-Carl Sagan.
#154. To: Armadillo (#153)
Just kidding. Abraxas is still Abraxas regardless of genital configuration.
#155. To: abraxas, Armadillo (#154)
Armadillos are tough and harsh. I feel I have narrowly escaped the wrath of a Dillo today. Thanks, Dillo. : )
#156. To: abraxas, farmfriend (#154)
Armadillos are tough and harsh. I feel I have narrowly escaped the wrath of a Dillo today.
I got no wrath. *Hangs head low*
Armadillos are hard on the outside, but soft and squishy on the inside.
"Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known."
-Carl Sagan.
#157. To: Armadillo (#156)
I got no wrath. *Hangs head low* Armadillos are hard on the outside, but soft and squishy on the inside
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