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Religion
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Title: Former Lesbian Couple Battles Over Child Custody
Source: The New American
URL Source: http://www.thenewamerican.com/index ... ple-battles-over-child-custody
Published: Dec 31, 2009
Author: Rebecca Terrell
Post Date: 2009-12-31 17:13:22 by farmfriend
Keywords: None
Views: 2456
Comments: 157

Former Lesbian Couple Battles Over Child Custody

Written by Rebecca Terrell
Thursday, 31 December 2009 01:00

A seven-year-old girl stands in the crosshairs of a bizarre custody battle between former lesbian domestic partners Lisa Miller and Janet Jenkins. The Wall Street Journal reports that Miller is the child's biological mother and conceived her by artificial insemination while living with Jenkins in Vermont, where they were joined in a civil union in 2001. Miller became a Christian in 2003, renounced the homosexual lifestyle, and moved to Virginia with her then-infant daughter, Isabella Miller-Jenkins.

Jenkins sued for unsupervised visitation, which Vermont Judge William Cohen granted after dissolving the civil union, but Miller refused to comply with the court order. She said allowing Isabella to spend time unsupervised with Jenkins would violate her Christian principles. Miller appealed the visitation order to courts in Vermont and Virginia. The VermontTimes Argus reports that Miller's attorneys argued that Isabella has not lived with Jenkins since she was a baby. A doctor who testified in the case said the change could "induce devastating trauma." Miller also expressed concern that Jenkins refuses to take Isabella to church. Jenkins' attorneys denied these claims.

Miller's appeals in both states were unsuccessful, but she remained in contempt. As a result, in November the court awarded Jenkins sole custody. According to the Wall Street Journal, an attorney for Jenkins claimed, "It is Ms. Jenkins' intent when she has custody of Isabella to allow as liberal contact as is possible with her other mother."

Miller tried to delay the transfer, set for January 1, but the court denied that request, too. Now, Miller and Isabella are missing. ABC News reports that no one has seen or heard from either of them since November 20, not even Miller's attorneys.

Under Vermont law, Jenkins is one of Isabella's legally recognized parents. She filed a missing person report on Wednesday since she does not know the whereabouts of her daughter. Her attorney Sarah Star said Jenkins is concerned about Isabella's safety and about Miller's mental stability. ABC News also quoted a professor of constitutional law at Vermont Law School who explained that if the transfer does not take place January 1, the court will likely issue a warrant for Miller's arrest.

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#72. To: FormerLurker (#68)

There is no evidence to support this idiotic statement.

I'm asking you for the evidence in regards to THIS LESBIAN, not gay men who are parenting. As I previoulsy stated, I'm bias about gay men adopting and I feel it does put children at risk.

Now, cough up the evidence that this woman in this case is unfit to parent and intends to turn the little girl into a carpet muncher. The court couldn't find any evidence, but you continue to make these idiotic statements. EVIDENCE FOR THIS CASE is the request at hand.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-01-01   15:59:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#73. To: abraxas (#63)

So abraxas, while THIS particular woman may or may not have an interest in molesting young girls, the chances are HIGH that she does.

For that very reason the court should have sided with the biological mother who has renounced the gay lifestyle and is trying to give her child a normal life.

Regardless, it is for this very reason the government should either NOT allow gay adoption or simply refuse to allow gay marriages in the first place since it can and does lead to serious issues far worse than those involved in normal divorces when things don't work out. I could care less about either the mother or her former lover, I care about the true victim here and that is this innocent little girl.

Do you think this little 7 year-old should be torn from her actual mother whom she's lived with her entire life, and be forced to live with a woman living a perverse lifestyle, whom the child doesn't even know?

Regardless if the woman is a molestor nor not, this still isn't right.

"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-01-01   16:03:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#74. To: abraxas (#71)

The father didn't even know until after the boy and his mother were at sea.

Perhaps because he was against leaving in the first place, and the mother couldn't trust telling him ahead of time that she was planning on leaving.

"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-01-01   16:05:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#75. To: abraxas (#70) (Edited)

You do not know that the ex-wife has "no emotional tie" to the child.

The child was two years old when she last saw the lesbain lover, and probably doesn't even remember her. She is now 7, probably in 2nd grade, and more interested in Hello Kitty, her friends at school, and being with her mother rather than hanging out with a stranger who used to lick her mother's vagina.

"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-01-01   16:08:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#76. To: FormerLurker (#73)

So abraxas, while THIS particular woman may or may not have an interest in molesting young girls, the chances are HIGH that she does.

Do you think this little 7 year-old should be torn from her actual mother whom she's lived with her entire life, and be forced to live with a woman living a perverse lifestyle, whom the child doesn't even know?

Again, this is your opinion, not a fact.

Who is responsible for the court's decision? Mom on the run. A mother who wants to protect her child would have considered the consequences of her actions, from beginning to end. All this fighting and moving to keep the ex- wife from the child couldn't have been healthy or in any way promoted well adjustment.

Do you run from your mistakes? I don't and I won't give a free pass for mom on the run to do this either. As a mother, I find her actions dispicable. She put her child in this position under the guise of being a "Christian" and as is the case in life, each action has a consequence. When the police track her down and her child is taken from her, she will have no one to blame but herself.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-01-01   16:10:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#77. To: abraxas (#72)

EVIDENCE FOR THIS CASE is the request at hand.

Common sense dictates that this little girl is better off with her mother rather than a stranger whom her mother used to have gay sex with.

"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-01-01   16:11:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#78. To: FormerLurker (#75)

She is now 7, probably in 2nd grade

Probably not in school at all since she and her mother are now fugatives.

Had her mother complied with court orders, this woman wouldn't be a stranger nor would she have been granted full custody of the child.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-01-01   16:12:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#79. To: abraxas (#76)

Who is responsible for the court's decision? Mom on the run.

If this other woman cared about the child at all, she would have backed off and allowed the child to live a normal life.

"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-01-01   16:12:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#80. To: FormerLurker (#77)

Common sense dictates that this little girl is better off with her mother rather than a stranger whom her mother used to have gay sex with.

Why? There is mounting evidence that mom on the run isn't all that stable or rational or intelligent.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-01-01   16:13:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#81. To: abraxas (#78)

Probably not in school at all since she and her mother are now fugatives.

Had her mother complied with court orders, this woman wouldn't be a stranger nor would she have been granted full custody of the child.

Had the court used reasonable sense and not tried to force the girl to visit with a vindictive lesbain in the first place, or if the vindicitive lesbain actually gave a shit about the child, none of this would be happening.

"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-01-01   16:14:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#82. To: abraxas (#80)

There is mounting evidence that mom on the run isn't all that stable or rational or intelligent.

What evidence, your words?

Are you a parent, or do you just pass judgement on them?

"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-01-01   16:14:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#83. To: FormerLurker (#79)

If this other woman cared about the child at all, she would have backed off and allowed the child to live a normal life.

There is no evidence that the child would "live a normal life" with former carpet munching mommy. None. Maybe the ex-wife has hung on this long, fighting in court because mommy on the run isn't all that normal herself. Did you ever consider that?

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-01-01   16:15:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#84. To: FormerLurker (#82)

What evidence, your words?

Are you a parent, or do you just pass judgement on them?

Making her child a fugative. Showing her child that running from mistakes is the correct course of action. Uprooting this child from all the homes that she has known. Pushing religious fundamentalism on her child to atone for her own sins. Using her newly minted Christianity as an excuse to ignore the courts.

Yes, I'm a parent.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-01-01   16:17:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#85. To: farmfriend (#48)

It is an answer, and a question. Your just stunned because it has left you showing yourself as an utter fool on this matter.

You do not understand the laws of nature and natures God.

It is not my job to educate you.

Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-01-01   16:19:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#86. To: abraxas (#76)

Again, this is your opinion, not a fact.

No, it is NOT an opinion that this little girl has little or no recollection of this other woman, she was TWO years old when she last saw her, and more than likely thinks she was just a friend of her mom.

If the other parent had been a man, and the biological mother took off with the kid, there would be little or no action on the part of the government to track the mother down and force her to cough up the child.

It's only because it's a gay matter that this is getting so much attention and the government becomes so concerned and actually acts as if it cares about a "parent's rights".

"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-01-01   16:19:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#87. To: FormerLurker (#81)

Had the court used reasonable sense and not tried to force the girl to visit with a vindictive lesbain in the first place, or if the vindicitive lesbain actually gave a shit about the child, none of this would be happening.

Mom on the run asked the court to determine custody. She brought the court case and fled the state, hoping to have the laws of another state apply. Funny, you don't see any personal responsiblity for the actions of mom on the run.........she's just a poor victim of her own stupidity. How liberal of you, FL. Blame everybody else for this woman's stupidity.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-01-01   16:21:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#88. To: FormerLurker (#60)

What it comes down to abraxas is that you appear to be of the opinion since the mother made a bad decision in her past, the child must be punished, simply because some lesbain wants some revenge against the child's mother.

Lurker you are about the only one with morals and common sense on this matter.

Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-01-01   16:21:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#89. To: abraxas (#84)

Yes, I'm a parent.

So I guess if the government told you to hand over your kid to someone you feel is a threat to your child's safety and psychological well-being, whom you know is doing such a thing out of pure spite and revenge, you'd happily comply.

Glad I'm not your kid.

"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-01-01   16:21:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#90. To: abraxas (#63)

You support child abuse and pedophiles. Disgusting.

Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-01-01   16:24:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#91. To: abraxas (#87)

How liberal of you, FL. Blame everybody else for this woman's stupidity.

I already told you I could care less about EITHER "former partner", it's the little girl I'm concerned about. If the mom was smart she would have asked for a Guardian Ad Litem for her daughter, in order to stand up for the child's rights in court.

"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-01-01   16:24:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#92. To: A K A Stone (#88)

Lurker you are about the only one with morals and common sense on this matter.

We don't always (in fact seldom) agree on things here Stone, but here we're obviously on the same page.

"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-01-01   16:25:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#93. To: abraxas (#87)

How liberal of you

Your the liberal. Queer pretend marriage is their issue. It seems to be the cause of your life. You are so passionate on this subject.....disgusting.

Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-01-01   16:26:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#94. To: FormerLurker (#86)

No, it is NOT an opinion that this little girl has little or no recollection of this other woman, she was TWO years old when she last saw her, and more than likely thinks she was just a friend of her mom.

Are you saying that parents do not bond with a child who is two and under? Are you saying the child doesn't bond with parents prior to the age of two. I'm here to tell you that you're wrong. Bonding on both sides is firmly established.

What is this "just a friend of her mom" crap? The two women were married, made a nursery together, changed diapers together, got up 2 am for feedings, ooohed and aaahhhed of over the first smile, first crawling, first steps. You're not a parent are you?

That's a sad commentary if you think that dad's can't get action for their parental rights in court. That says more about our crappy system than the merits of this case.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-01-01   16:26:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#95. To: abraxas (#78)

Probably not in school at all since she and her mother are now fugatives.

Had her mother complied with court orders, this woman wouldn't be a stranger nor would she have been granted full custody of the child.

When the govt tells you to turn in your guns. You better comply or you will be a very bad person. very very bad.

Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-01-01   16:28:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#96. To: FormerLurker (#89)

So I guess if the government told you to hand over your kid to someone you feel is a threat to your child's safety and psychological well-being, whom you know is doing such a thing out of pure spite and revenge, you'd happily comply

What a stupid analogy!! I'm not an idiot like this former carpet muncher who has never proven any threat to her child's safety or psychological danger in regards to her ex-wife.

No, I don't carry on with court battles based on revenge and spite like this mom on the run. If I ask the court to determine a case, I respect the court's decision.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-01-01   16:29:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#97. To: FormerLurker (#92)

We don't always (in fact seldom) agree on things here Stone,

I would wager that we have more common interests then not. I just state mine in a more mean and shocking manner.

Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-01-01   16:29:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#98. To: abraxas (#94)

The two women were married,

Hey you stupid fuck. THEY WERE NEVER MARRIED. Dumbass.

Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-01-01   16:31:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#99. To: abraxas (#96)

No, I don't carry on with court battles based on revenge and spite like this mom on the run. If I ask the court to determine a case, I respect the court's decision.

Read the article again abraxas. It was the jilted lesbain who initiated the court battle, not the mother.

"Jenkins sued for unsupervised visitation, which Vermont Judge William Cohen granted after dissolving the civil union"

Jenkins is not the child's mother, she is the jilted gay lover.

"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-01-01   16:32:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#100. To: A K A Stone (#95)

When the govt tells you to turn in your guns. You better comply or you will be a very bad person. very very bad.

Just when I think that analogies couldn't get any more stupid.....you prove me wrong.

This isn't a second amendment issue. This former carpet muncher moved to this state to be a part of it's gay marriage promotion. Oh, but now she changed her mind so the law should no longer apply to her.

I live in open carry states. I wouldn't live in an anti-second amendment state, which is also the most likely states to promote gay marriage.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-01-01   16:32:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#101. To: abraxas (#100)

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the BLESSINGS of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

What does blessing mean?

Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-01-01   16:34:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#102. To: FormerLurker (#99)

Read the article again abraxas. It was the jilted lesbain who initiated the court battle, not the mother.

You read it again. The court decision was part of the initial splitting of the sheets:

Jenkins sued for unsupervised visitation, which Vermont Judge William Cohen granted after dissolving the civil union, but Miller refused to comply with the court order.

When you file your motion and go through the divorce courts, it is customary to determine child custody and visitation at that time.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-01-01   16:37:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#103. To: A K A Stone (#101)

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the BLESSINGS of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Your point?

This is referring to a blessing of liberty and prosperity. However, you think liberty only applies to some of the people some of the time when you deem that interpretation of liberty to be in line with your interpretation of morality.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-01-01   16:39:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#104. To: A K A Stone (#98)

Hey you stupid fuck. THEY WERE NEVER MARRIED. Dumbass.

lol......your panties are so tightly knotted. Civil unions in Vermont. So touchy about symantics.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-01-01   16:40:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#105. To: abraxas (#94) (Edited)

Are you saying that parents do not bond with a child who is two and under?

I'm not looking at the bond this other woman may have felt towards the little girl, but that of whatever bond the little girl may have felt towards this woman. I'd say it's probably a safe bet that the girl bonded with her natural mother rather than this other woman who was just "playing" mommy.

What is this "just a friend of her mom" crap? The two women were married, made a nursery together, changed diapers together, got up 2 am for feedings, ooohed and aaahhhed of over the first smile, first crawling, first steps.

How do YOU know this other woman did all that? Maybe she didn't give two shits about the kid, ignored her, mistreated her, and that might be why the girl's real mother left.

Or she MIGHT have been as you say, thing is, the girl is SEVEN YEARS OLD at this point, and should not be forced to live with a woman who is NOT related to her in any way, especially one who MAY want her for unsavory sexual delights.

That's a sad commentary if you think that dad's can't get action for their parental rights in court.

In interstate matters, women can kidnap children to other states and there is not ONE thing the government will do to recover them, well not in USUAL cases that is...

"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-01-01   16:43:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#106. To: abraxas (#102)

When you file your motion and go through the divorce courts, it is customary to determine child custody and visitation at that time.

Hence why there should NOT be gay marriage or gay adoption.

"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-01-01   16:45:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#107. To: abraxas (#103)

Your point?

Blessings come from God. We can't be blessed as a nation when we violate Gods Laws. Ever heard of Sodom and Gomorrah?

Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-01-01   16:47:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#108. To: FormerLurker (#105)

How do YOU know this other woman did all that? Maybe she didn't give two shits about the kid, ignored her, mistreated her, and that might be why the girl's real mother left.

That would have come out in court and the court would have decided for mommy on the run. The court found the ex-wife to be FIT to parent. Mommy on the run had no case other than "newly minted Christian" which didn't get her too far.You simply do not have any evidence to substantiate your opinions, yet you keep making them over and over again to the giddy delight of AKA Stone.

Lucky you to have a new admirer.: P

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-01-01   16:48:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#109. To: FormerLurker (#106)

Hence why there should NOT be gay marriage or gay adoption.

There will never be gay marriage. Even if the govt says there is.

Also...Gays shouldn't even be allowed to be near kids (teachers) or look at them.

Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-01-01   16:49:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#110. To: abraxas (#102)

You read it again. The court decision was part of the initial splitting of the sheets:

Jenkins sued for unsupervised visitation

And Jenkins did not HAVE to SUE for UNSUPERVISED visitation. Apparently there was already some concern on the part of the child's mother if Jenkins had to ask for UNSUPERVISED visitation.

What it comes down to is a lesbain wants this kid, and you feel the need to support her actions and allow her to do whatever she wants with the child, to hell with the kid's life or dreams.

"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-01-01   16:49:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#111. To: abraxas (#108)

over again to the giddy delight of AKA Stone.

When referring to me get it right. There are spaces between the K and the A's. Thank You in advance.

Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-01-01   16:50:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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