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Religion
See other Religion Articles

Title: Former Lesbian Couple Battles Over Child Custody
Source: The New American
URL Source: http://www.thenewamerican.com/index ... ple-battles-over-child-custody
Published: Dec 31, 2009
Author: Rebecca Terrell
Post Date: 2009-12-31 17:13:22 by farmfriend
Keywords: None
Views: 2564
Comments: 157

Former Lesbian Couple Battles Over Child Custody

Written by Rebecca Terrell
Thursday, 31 December 2009 01:00

A seven-year-old girl stands in the crosshairs of a bizarre custody battle between former lesbian domestic partners Lisa Miller and Janet Jenkins. The Wall Street Journal reports that Miller is the child's biological mother and conceived her by artificial insemination while living with Jenkins in Vermont, where they were joined in a civil union in 2001. Miller became a Christian in 2003, renounced the homosexual lifestyle, and moved to Virginia with her then-infant daughter, Isabella Miller-Jenkins.

Jenkins sued for unsupervised visitation, which Vermont Judge William Cohen granted after dissolving the civil union, but Miller refused to comply with the court order. She said allowing Isabella to spend time unsupervised with Jenkins would violate her Christian principles. Miller appealed the visitation order to courts in Vermont and Virginia. The VermontTimes Argus reports that Miller's attorneys argued that Isabella has not lived with Jenkins since she was a baby. A doctor who testified in the case said the change could "induce devastating trauma." Miller also expressed concern that Jenkins refuses to take Isabella to church. Jenkins' attorneys denied these claims.

Miller's appeals in both states were unsuccessful, but she remained in contempt. As a result, in November the court awarded Jenkins sole custody. According to the Wall Street Journal, an attorney for Jenkins claimed, "It is Ms. Jenkins' intent when she has custody of Isabella to allow as liberal contact as is possible with her other mother."

Miller tried to delay the transfer, set for January 1, but the court denied that request, too. Now, Miller and Isabella are missing. ABC News reports that no one has seen or heard from either of them since November 20, not even Miller's attorneys.

Under Vermont law, Jenkins is one of Isabella's legally recognized parents. She filed a missing person report on Wednesday since she does not know the whereabouts of her daughter. Her attorney Sarah Star said Jenkins is concerned about Isabella's safety and about Miller's mental stability. ABC News also quoted a professor of constitutional law at Vermont Law School who explained that if the transfer does not take place January 1, the court will likely issue a warrant for Miller's arrest.

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#21. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#19)

The courts will see fit that the woman who is not a biological parent to remove her from the equation, as she is nothing more than an acquaintance, not a parent.

When the former carpet muncher refused to comply with the court orders, contempt if you will, the courts granted her former wife full custody of the child. Now she is on the run with the child and when she is found she will be arrested.

The court doesn't take kindly to blatent disregard of orders. Initially, it was visitation granted and now it it is full custody.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-01-01   13:19:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: abraxas, Armadillo (#17)

Unless the non-biological parent is deemed unifit,

And that is the problem. Many people believe that being gay automatically makes them unfit. This is especially true when you coming from a religious stand point. There is some evidence, biased perhaps given the source, that children are more likely to suffer abuse in a gay household.

I have a hard time with the whole subject. I'm pro gay marriage when it is just about the couple but vote against it because it opens a can of worms when it comes to children. The baby sitter I had for my boys was gay. I'm not homophobic. I had no fear that he was going to "turn" my boys gay. I just think it is better to not go down that road as far as families are concerned.


"The only thing better than a Federal Reserve audit would be a Federal Reserve autopsy." ~ unknown

farmfriend  posted on  2010-01-01   13:22:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: farmfriend (#22)

And that is the problem. Many people believe that being gay automatically makes them unfit.

Uh. The people that you refer to KNOW not "believe" that being homosexual (not gay) makes them unfit to be parents.

Anyone who doesn't know that is unfit to be an American.

Screw the homosexualamerican lobby. I'm tired of hyphenated Americans.

Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-01-01   13:26:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: farmfriend (#22)

I'm pro gay marriage

Then you are stupider then Obama.

Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-01-01   13:27:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: farmfriend (#20)

Everyone's marriage is a mixed bag, but so long as both parents are a united front for the children, that is what is most important of all. I don't have kids, but I can tell you that when my parents got a divorce it was the worst thing that could have happened since neither parent wanted to be a parent at all.

Better to be hated for what you are, than loved for what you are not.

TommyTheMadArtist  posted on  2010-01-01   13:28:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: A K A Stone (#24)

Then you are stupider then Obama.

How about engaging in conversation about it instead of being an ass? You make it obvious you didn't read the entire post or my other posts on this thread.


"The only thing better than a Federal Reserve audit would be a Federal Reserve autopsy." ~ unknown

farmfriend  posted on  2010-01-01   13:28:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#25)

Yeah, unless there is physical abuse going on I think the old fashion belief of staying together for the kids is the lesser of two evils.


"The only thing better than a Federal Reserve audit would be a Federal Reserve autopsy." ~ unknown

farmfriend  posted on  2010-01-01   13:30:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: farmfriend (#26)

Even Obama isn't stupid enough to support what can never be. Gay marriage.

Anyone who even uses the term is an idiot. A total idiot. (unless you are demonstrating the stupidity of the phrase).

Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-01-01   13:30:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: farmfriend (#22)

Personally, I take the perspective of personal responsiblity. This person entered into a legal and binding agreement and she knew what that entailed. Then, she opted to bring a child into that union.

Now she needs to take responsibility for her choices. I completely disagree with her taking that child on the run. We shouldn't run from problems, especially when they are of our own creation.

I avoid that religious argument for the most part. Mostly, it's hypocritally finger pointing at one particular type of sinner while sinning in multiple other ways.

I too am comflicted about gays raising children, more so gay men than gay women which may be completely biased......but it's still true for me. However, I have little sympathy for a woman who moved to a state simply to marry her gay lover and then changes are mind after they opt to have a baby together.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-01-01   13:31:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: A K A Stone (#28)

I've seen people post derogatory things about you, now I know why. I'm like an elephant too, I never forget.


"The only thing better than a Federal Reserve audit would be a Federal Reserve autopsy." ~ unknown

farmfriend  posted on  2010-01-01   13:32:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: abraxas (#29)

Yeah, I think you and I are in agreement on this one. At least I don't see anything in your post I would disagree with. It is a sticky subject and hard for most to discuss in a rational matter.


"The only thing better than a Federal Reserve audit would be a Federal Reserve autopsy." ~ unknown

farmfriend  posted on  2010-01-01   13:34:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: abraxas (#29)

Personally, I take the perspective of personal responsiblity. This person entered into a legal and binding agreement and she knew what that entailed. Then, she opted to bring a child into that union.

Don't be a fucking moron. Having a kid raised by queers is child abuse pure and simple. You shouldn't be able to have a legal agreement where clear cut child abuse in the result. Yeah I said having queers raise kids is child abuse. If you disagree then you support child abuse.

Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-01-01   13:34:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: farmfriend (#30)

I've seen people post derogatory things about you, now I know why. I'm like an elephant too, I never forget.

If you support queers getting married. You are the problem and in no way whatsoever the solution. Please remember that.

Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-01-01   13:36:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: abraxas (#29)

then changes are mind after they opt to have a baby together.

What grade are you in? Two women rubbing their tits and bushes together doesn't produce a baby.

Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-01-01   13:38:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: A K A Stone (#34)

Two women rubbing their tits and bushes together doesn't produce a baby.

Reading comprehension lacking, asswipe? I never said that it did. What I said was this former carpet muncher rushed to a state for the umbrella of gay marriage and opted to bring a child into that union. Now, she should comply with the laws of that state that was once so great to "allow" her to marry her lover.

The concept of personal responsibility for the choices one makes is obviously foreign to you. It's her bed and she should lie in it, not take a seven year old on the run to live as a fugitive. Some mother.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-01-01   13:48:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: A K A Stone (#32)

Don't be a fucking moron. Having a kid raised by queers is child abuse pure and simple

No more abusive than having a child raised by an asswipe like you.......

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-01-01   13:49:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: abraxas (#35)

Reading comprehension lacking, asswipe? I never said that it did. What I said was this former carpet muncher rushed to a state for the umbrella of gay marriage and opted to bring a child into that union. Now, she should comply with the laws of that state that was once so great to "allow" her to marry her lover.

NO NO NO....This is what you said.

" I have little sympathy for a woman who moved to a state simply to marry her gay lover and then changes are mind after they opt to have a baby together. "

Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-01-01   13:51:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: abraxas (#36)

No more abusive than having a child raised by an asswipe like you.......

So you think that having two queers raise a kid is better then a man and a woman who sends them to private christian school and parents that teach them right from wrong?

Now you really went and stepped in it.

Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-01-01   13:53:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: A K A Stone (#37)

" I have little sympathy for a woman who moved to a state simply to marry her gay lover and then changes are mind after they opt to have a baby together. "

Yep that's what I said. This MARRIED couple opted for a sperm donor TOGETHER in a LEGAL and BINDING contract that states BOTH are parents of the child.

It has nothing to do with "rubbing tits" or munching carpets, moron. It has to do with two legal and consenting adults entering into a BINDING contract and bringing a child into the union.

Do you piss on your contractual agreements too? Do you rush to a state for the ability to enter into a contract then cry foul when the deal goes sour?

Like I said, poor kid.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-01-01   13:55:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: A K A Stone (#38)

So you think that having two queers raise a kid is better then a man and a woman who sends them to private christian school and parents that teach them right from wrong

That's not the issue, moron. Former carpet muncher isn't remarried and sending the kid to Christian School. She's taking the kid on the run to live as a fugative. She obviously doesn't know right from wrong. Hell, she can't even decide who she really wants to sleep with for crying out loud.

If this former carpet muncher who uses her newly minted Christianity as a legal crutch is one half of the teaching of right and wrong, then you have not one iota of evidence to demonstrae the child is better off with her.

Genes don't make a good mother. Biology, in this case, dicatates a high degree of idiocy that may not be best for the child.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-01-01   14:00:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: abraxas (#40)

What are you talking about?

I was responding to this

"No more abusive than having a child raised by an asswipe like you....... "

Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-01-01   14:17:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: abraxas (#35)

Reading comprehension lacking, asswipe?

That was my impression. Once again we agree.


"The only thing better than a Federal Reserve audit would be a Federal Reserve autopsy." ~ unknown

farmfriend  posted on  2010-01-01   14:18:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: abraxas (#39)

Yep that's what I said. This MARRIED couple opted for a sperm donor TOGETHER in a LEGAL and BINDING contract that states BOTH are parents of the child.

It has nothing to do with "rubbing tits" or munching carpets, moron. It has to do with two legal and consenting adults entering into a BINDING contract and bringing a child into the union.

So you support people being to be able to make contracts that amount to child abuse? That's weirdo stuff.

Next you are going to tell me that a contract with a hitman is legally binding.

Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-01-01   14:19:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: A K A Stone (#43)

So you support people being to be able to make contracts that amount to child abuse? That's weirdo stuff.

Next you are going to tell me that a contract with a hitman is legally binding.

She went to that state to for that legally binding contract. If she was a child abuser when she was munching carpets and had that baby in womb, she's still the same damn abuser today.

Oh wait, newly minted Christianity converts abusers........eyes rolling.

Dead men don't tell tales. If the person is dead and the money changes hands the contract was binding. Maybe not legally, but certainly binding.

The courts found no evidence the former wife was unfit to parent. This is your contention based on NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER. Just because you believe that all gays are child abusers doesn't make it a fact.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-01-01   14:31:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: abraxas (#44)

You don't get it. Having a child raised by a queer is child abuse. It is emotional abuse.

I don't think all queers abuse kids physically.

I'm saying the law is wrong. People with good morals know that.

I'm saying that there should be no such thing as gay adoption. It is a disqualifier to raise kids. If you don't understand that then you obviously have major morality problems.

Laws are supposed to be based on right and wrong....morals.

Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-01-01   14:35:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: A K A Stone, abraxas (#45)

You don't get it. Having a child raised by a queer is child abuse. It is emotional abuse.

And you know this how? Where is your proof?


"The only thing better than a Federal Reserve audit would be a Federal Reserve autopsy." ~ unknown

farmfriend  posted on  2010-01-01   14:38:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: farmfriend (#46)

And you know this how? Where is your proof?

How do you know it is wrong to steal or to kill someone? Where is your proof?

Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-01-01   14:40:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: A K A Stone (#47)

That's not an answer.


"The only thing better than a Federal Reserve audit would be a Federal Reserve autopsy." ~ unknown

farmfriend  posted on  2010-01-01   14:41:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: abraxas (#6)

The child was conceived in a legal marital union, granting parental rights.

And that is why there should no such thing as "gay marriage". For the sake of personal bliss and "in your face" satisfaction of homosexuals, children adopted or "artificially conceived" by these folks are scared for life by the nagging knowledge that their parents are having homosexual sex, and that at LEAST one of them are not their REAL parent.

What ever happened to the concept of doing what's best in the interest of the child?


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-01-01   14:45:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: A K A Stone (#45)

Having a child raised by a queer is child abuse. It is emotional abuse.

I don't think all queers abuse kids physically.

I'm saying the law is wrong. People with good morals know that.

I'm saying that there should be no such thing as gay adoption. It is a disqualifier to raise kids. If you don't understand that then you obviously have major morality problems.

Laws are supposed to be based on right and wrong....morals.

Emotional abuse? Again and opinion based on no evidence.

Lots of laws are wrong. That doesn't mean you run like a fugative, especially when you willingly participated in the law you now deem to be wrong. People with any morals whatsoever know that.

I would put my morals up against yours any day of the week, AKA Stone. A kid who is living in a hell hole of foster parents would disagree with you if offered a gay adoption that provided a stable home and an escape from the system. Until you walk in the shoes of such a child, you should shut your yap.

You are naive if you think laws are based on right and wrong. There are a million laws on the books here in the land of the free and three quarters of them are not based on any morals whatsoever.

How many unwanted kids have you adopted, Mr. Morality? Do you selectively adhere to only the laws inwhich you deem moral? Do you do anything to change laws that you deem immoral or do you just sit in judgment of others based on your particular religious dogma?

This woman moved to a state just so she marry her gay lover and have a family. You have no problem with this choice made by her, no moral standing on her bahavior.......no, of course not, she's now a newly minted Christian who shouldn't have to take responsibility for her choices or adhere to "immoral" laws any longer.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-01-01   14:48:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: FormerLurker (#49)

What ever happened to the concept of doing what's best in the interest of the child?

The time to think about that is PRIOR to having the child, not after you move to a state to have your gay marriage and secure your sperm donor. Just because one gay lover has a change of heart doesn't alter the contract or the rights.

Gay marriage is already in this state, this argument is moot in this case.

What is a REAL parent? Are adoptive children left with FAKE parents? Biology is not the best factor to determine ability to parent. Many mothers kill their children, many do not care for them as they should, many are too selfish to consider what is best for their children.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-01-01   14:53:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: farmfriend (#0)

There seems to be something fundamentally wrong with gay marriage. Two men or two women raising a child seems far worse. What's to say they're not pedophiles?

Because they say they're not?

The term 'homophobic' is just another PC mind-fuck, so don't anyone pull that one on me.

Merry Christmas


"The trouble with people is not that they don't know but that they know so much that ain't so." ~ Josh Billings

wudidiz  posted on  2010-01-01   15:00:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: abraxas (#51)

Gay marriage is already in this state, this argument is moot in this case.

Torture is legal too.

Merry Christmas


"The trouble with people is not that they don't know but that they know so much that ain't so." ~ Josh Billings

wudidiz  posted on  2010-01-01   15:01:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: wudidiz (#53)

Torture is legal too.

Only while the War on Terror is in effect....../sarc.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-01-01   15:03:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: abraxas (#54)

Only while the War on Terror is in effect....../sarc.

:-)

Merry Christmas


"The trouble with people is not that they don't know but that they know so much that ain't so." ~ Josh Billings

wudidiz  posted on  2010-01-01   15:04:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: abraxas (#51) (Edited)

The time to think about that is PRIOR to having the child

The CHILD had no say in that decision though did she. Her rights are SUPPOSED to be protected by the court, where the court in MOST states weigh their decisions largely on what is best for the child.

The child should NOT be subjected to men having oral or anal sex in a bedroom next to theirs, or women having oral sex or playing with dildoes in an adjacent room. This child may not even KNOW that her real mother is or was a lesbain in the past, and exposing or revealing this info to her may very well traumatize her and screw her up for life. If forced to "visit" with this other woman, who perhaps might by now have another "girlfriend", who's to say she won't be having sex in a room close to the child's room, and making so much noice the child hears it?

It's one thing if the other woman was a REAL parent, and not just some lesbain whom her mother had a relationship with in the past.

The fact is, if you have read the story, this child lived with these two woman for a brief time as an infant, and more than likely doesn't even know this other woman, or thinks she was just her mom's friend if she does remember her at all.

This other woman more than likely doesn't care one bit about the child, and is just using the court and the legal process to TORMENT this mother AND her child solely as a form of revenge for leaving her and hurting her feelings.

If anything, this other woman may VERY WELL be interested in molesting the girl as FURTHER revenge against her former lover.

Biology is not the best factor to determine ability to parent. Many mothers kill their children, many do not care for them as they should, many are too selfish to consider what is best for their children.

So, you think a former gay lover with no ties at all to the child would be a better parent than the child's own mother who obviously loves her and is trying to protect her. Yeah ok, I'm sure the mother must be planning to kill her, that's what biological parents do. Maybe the state should just take all children from their parents, since parents kill their kids.

Sheesh.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-01-01   15:10:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: FormerLurker (#56)

So, you think a former gay lover with no ties at all to the child would be a better parent than the child's own mother who obviously loves her and is trying to protect her.

Maybe so, the courts think so. Her biological mother has made her a fugative and risks going to jail rather than compliance with the court.

You say trying to protect, but from what? Her own sordid past? Her former carptet munching? Do you not believe that the truth sets you free? Do you not believe that people should take responsibility for the choices that they make? Do you believe that dishonesy and running from the law is the best choice for mother and child? I DON'T.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-01-01   15:15:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: abraxas (#57)

Maybe so, the courts think so. Her biological mother has made her a fugative and risks going to jail rather than compliance with the court.

So did you also approve of the way Elian Gonzalez was snatched up from his loving family here in the US and whisked off to Cuba?


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-01-01   15:18:32 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: abraxas (#57)

You say trying to protect, but from what? Her own sordid past? Her former carptet munching? Do you not believe that the truth sets you free? Do you not believe that people should take responsibility for the choices that they make? Do you believe that dishonesy and running from the law is the best choice for mother and child? I DON'T.

Do you think snatching up this little girl from her real mother and handing her to a practicing lesbain with NO EMOTIONAL TIE to this child will make her happy and well adjusted?


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-01-01   15:20:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: abraxas (#57) (Edited)

What it comes down to abraxas is that you appear to be of the opinion since the mother made a bad decision in her past, the child must be punished, simply because some lesbain wants some revenge against the child's mother.

So what if this lesbain wishes to brainwash the child and start having sex with her, it's all cool, because in that state gay marriage is legal.

If this were a case of heterosexual parents, with one adoptive parent being vindictive against the biological parent and seeking visitation or custody, the court would side with the biological parent if the child was the same sex, and perhaps with the adoptive parent if that parent was of the same sex as the child.

However, in the case of homosexual parents, where one parent has shunned their homosexuality and is the biological parent, well I'd say that parent is most CERTAINLY the better parent and WILL do what is best for the child. Exposing the child to a perverse lifestyle against their will and the will of their natural parent can and more than likely WILL do irrepairable harm to the child, and destroy any hope for a normal life that child ever had.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-01-01   15:23:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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