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Title: Court upholds police pointing gun at lawful carrier
Source:
http://www.examiner.com
URL Source: http://www.examiner.com/x-5619-Atla ... ointing-gun-at-lawful-carriers
Published: Jan 3, 2010
Author: Ed Stone
Post Date: 2010-01-03 14:46:35 by freepatriot32
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Keywords: Court, police, ccw, jackbooted thugs
Views: 156
Comments: 7
It's open season on gun carriers. A case out of the First Circuit has some painful lessons for gun carriers in Georgia. A United States Circuit Court of Appeals last week upheld the constitutionality of pointing a gun at any citizen daring to carry, lawfully, a concealed weapon in public. The First Circuit Court of Appeals is the Court just below the United States Supreme Court in the New England states. The case stems from a lawyer who sued a police officer after he was detained for lawfully carrying a concealed weapon while in possession of a license to carry concealed. According to the case opinion, the lawyer, Greg Schubert, had a pistol concealed under his suit coat, and Mr. Schubert was walking in what the court described as a "high crime area." At some point a police officer, J.B. Stern, who lived up to his last name, caught a glimpse of the attorney's pistol, and he leapt out of his patrol car "in a dynamic and explosive manner" with his gun drawn, pointing it at the attorney's face. Officer Stern "executed a pat-frisk," and Mr. Schubert produced his license to carry a concealed weapon. He was disarmed and ordered to stand in front of the patrol car in the hot sun. At some point, the officer locked him in the back seat of the police car and delivered a lecture. Officer Stern "partially Mirandized Schubert, mentioned the possibility of a criminal charge, and told Schubert that he (Stern) was the only person allowed to carry a weapon on his beat." For most people, this would be enough to conclude that they were being harassed for the exercise of a constitutional right, but the officer went further, seizing the attorney's pistol and leaving with it. Officer Stern reasoned that because he could not confirm the "facially valid" license to carry, he would not permit the attorney to carry. Officer Stern drove away with the license and the firearm, leaving the attorney unarmed, dressed in a suit, and alone in what the officer himself argued was a high crime area. The attorney sued in federal court, but the District Court threw out his suit, ruling that Officer Stern's behavior is the proper way to treat people who lawfully carry concealed pistols. Mr. Schubert appealed, and the First Circuit upheld the District Court's ruling. The court held that the stop was lawful and that Officer Stern "was permitted to take actions to ensure his own safety." The court further held that the officer was entitled to confirm the validity of a "facially valid" license to carry a concealed weapon. The problem for Officer Stern was that there is no way to do so in Massachusetts, where this incident occurred. As a result, the court held that Officer Stern "sensibly opted to terminate the stop and release Schubert, but retain the weapon." Georgia is not in the First Circuit, but this case holds some harsh lessons for Georgians who exercise their right to bear arms. Recall that in the MARTA case here in Georgia, the court held that the officer was entitled to take measures to protect himself, including disarming the person carrying, and entitled to investigate further for a half hour even after Mr. Raissi produced a Georgia firearms license. Although the officers in that case did not actually point a gun at Mr. Raissi's face, as Officer Stern did to attorney Schubert, it is a logical conclusion that the court would have upheld the constitutionality of them doing so. The vast majority of the cases MARTA cited in its briefs to the federal court included an officer pointing a gun at the person stopped. In addition, carrying a concealed weapon onto the MARTA system is a felony, and no court is going to hold that an officer violated any constitutional right by pointing a gun at an armed felon. Furthermore, it must be recalled that Georgia, like Massachussetts and the vast majority of states, has no system to confirm the validity of a Georgia firearms license. The similarities between the MARTA federal opinion and the First Circuit opinion are startling, and the implications for Georgia are clear. This First Circuit case is a logical extension of the MARTA case here in Georgia, and it shows what armed Georgians can expect if the General Assembly does not take action soon to correct the presumption of criminality that federal judge Thomas Thrash attached to the exercise of the right to bear arms. Welcome to the new "right" to bear arms. For more info: Read the full text of the First Circuit opinion by clicking here.
Is this the reaction concealed carry should bring from the police? Oleg Volk, A Human Right
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#1. To: All, *libertarians*, *Jack-Booted Thugs* (#0)
ping
http://www.moola.com:80/moopubs/b2b/exc/join.jsp?sid=4d6a55744e5451354e7a673d-2
His first mistake was being an attorney. His second mistake was looking out of place in a bad neighborhood. His third mistake was allowing his pistol to be seen. No probable cause, no harassment. People need to realize that the police are NOT public servants. Most of them are bullies with badges. 80% of police would be in prison right now if they were investigated, or at the very least watched. The thing is, Cops aren't there to protect the innocent. They are there as revenue collectors, and only THEY as revenue collectors and shake down artists are allowed to carry any kind of weapon. There will come a day when the people of this country will be fed up with the oppression, and make examples of cops just like this one. If you are licensed for concealed carry, you were dumb enough to think that being licensed in the first place would allow you to do anything. You can get pulled over for no reason what so ever if the cops feel like it. ON A WHIM no less. If you have a license to carry, it's a permit to be harassed, detained, and otherwise put upon by those who would like to see everyone defenseless, because they are so scared one of their fellow boys in blue will be shot in the line of duty. We have plenty of innocent people who are shot by cops, or run over by them in cop cars because the cops have too much power, and can operate without reprisal. The only way to stop this sort of thing, is for examples to be made.
It is better to be hated for what you are, than loved for what you are not. - Tommy The Mad Artist.
The PTB's not being able to circumvent the Second Amendment directly appear to be attempting a defacto circumvention by making the carrying of any weapon tantamount to a threat even in the absence of "probable cause".
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
In so doing, the court is signing the police force's death warrants, because any person with a gun legally will see the police as a immediate threat, and in Georgia it is legal to kill someone you feel is directly threatening your life, even the police.
That could result in some interesting court cases if a cop gets blustery and threatening and gets himself killed for doing so.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
It already has. I just don't remember the names of the cases
This is going to keep going down this road; but keep heart for the time of the systems collapse is at hand. Dying Tyrants always trash about for a while; let this one have its last few swipes. The continued repression tells the tale: Fear generates hostility; hostility breeds repression; repression breed revolution; revolution breeds end of power for those with initial fear, more times than not. The America Police State will implode because the Police and Military do NOT have a monopoly on force-and do NOT in fact fully trust their own security agencies nor the military to fire upon, oppress and occupy American civilians, in a non-disaster/emergency situation. The Army might fire upon the Ghettoes and the Border beans, but they would most likely balk at attacking middle/working class people, ie the Army being mostly White still and officered by Whites--and more Southern Whites than not--is not likely to fire upon White Civilians and would most likely go over to them in formations, and with a high frequency.They remember the Czar's Cossacks 1917, and they fear the night.
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#2. To: freepatriot32 (#0)
#3. To: freepatriot32 (#0)
#4. To: Original_Intent (#3)
The PTB's not being able to circumvent the Second Amendment directly appear to be attempting a defacto circumvention by making the carrying of any weapon tantamount to a threat even in the absence of "probable cause".
#5. To: PaulCJ (#4)
#6. To: Original_Intent (#5)
That could result in some interesting court cases if a cop gets blustery and threatening and gets himself killed for doing so.
#7. To: freepatriot32 (#0)
"This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?”
-Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
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