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War, War, War
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Title: More US military die from suicide than in battle
Source: NWO Observer
URL Source: http://nwoobserver.wordpress.com/20 ... military-lives-than-afghan-war
Published: Jan 06, 2010
Author: wsws
Post Date: 2010-01-10 05:38:48 by Tatarewicz
Keywords: None
Views: 367
Comments: 31

American military personnel are continuing to take their own lives in unprecedented numbers, as wars in Afghanistan and Iraq drag on. By late November, at least 334 had committed suicide in 2009, more than the 319 killed in Afghanistan or the 150 who died in Iraq.

Click for Full Text!

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#1. To: Tatarewicz (#0)

Article only makes sense with original title: "Suicide claims more US military lives than Afghan war".

TooConservative  posted on  2010-01-10   6:27:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

All war has a destructive, corrosive effect on the mind and soul. We've never focused on the individual damage to the psyche the way that we have recently. The world wars and the adventures that this country has been on previous to the Gulf nonsense left a lot of unrecognized victims in their wake. I've known many of them. We're not going to know the true cost of these wars for many years to come.

BTW, christine can fix your titles if you ask nice.

randge  posted on  2010-01-10   9:11:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

I wasn't trying to be an nitpicker. I only looked at the original article for the real title because it made no sense with the posted title.

I do appreciate that Tantarewicz took the time to post it for us.

TooConservative  posted on  2010-01-10   9:18:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

No, you're not a nitpicker at all. With due respect to Tatarewicz, little goof like that can damage credibility of the forum, particularly in the eyes of visitors who aren't familiar with 4um.

I've goofed up on titles myself. They can make a post you've worked hard on look lame. It pays to take a moment to edit, and it's no shame to ask chrissie to fix something.

randge  posted on  2010-01-10   9:37:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

No, you're not a nitpicker at all. With due respect to Tatarewicz, little goof like that can damage credibility of the forum, particularly in the eyes of visitors who aren't familiar with 4um.

INDEED.

Totally untrue headline.

Cynicom  posted on  2010-01-10   10:09:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

American military personnel are continuing to take their own lives in unprecedented numbers, as wars in Afghanistan and Iraq drag on.

Wait til they start taking other's lives when they come home after several tours in Iraq, Afghanistan or Yemen.

Doing what's right isn't always easy but it's always right.

noone222  posted on  2010-01-10   10:26:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Wait til they start taking other's lives when they come home after several tours in Iraq, Afghanistan or Yemen.

What quality people they take in to fill the ranks is what the harvest.

The navy most likely will soon allow females aboard submarines. Carriers currently set sail with about 12 per cent females. Over ten per cent never finish their sea duty due pregnancy.

Cynicom  posted on  2010-01-10   10:30:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Thank you for the correction. But not to overlook the headline's overall authenticity.

A five-month survey by CBS (since VA does not keep suicide stats) uncovered 6,256 suicides in 2005 alone which is more than the cumulative total for the Iraq and Afghan wars.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2...tigates/main3496471.shtml

There's lots of disturbing data when you google "us veterans suicide:" 93% are enlisted, one-third between ages 21-25, 48% married, 42% after one deployment; 178,000 vets have been diagnosed with mental illness(s) between 2002-08. Estimated 10 failed suicide attempts for each actual loss. And remember, as one relative of a fallen Canadian trooper said: this was for nothing. No other reason than a bunch of political captives in the US Congress having to discharge their campaign indebtedness to the Israeli lobby shylocks by fighting Israel's enemies.

Tatarewicz  posted on  2010-01-10   23:32:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Estimated 10 failed suicide attempts for each actual loss.

Hmm...kind of strange, considering they're trained in lethal weapons, huh?

I expect at least half of these "failed" attempts are trying for a long-term disability. Shirkers.

Lots of people trying to game the system.

TooConservative  posted on  2010-01-11   7:48:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

The ten-to-one ratio appears to be the norm for the general population, although some estimates put it at 20-1. There are 30,000 suicides annually in the US; another estimated 300,000 survive an attempt,most requiring only emergency room treatment. Suicide is listed as the 8th leading cause of death.

www.alb2c3.com/suilodge/facovr1.htm

Tatarewicz  posted on  2010-01-12   1:34:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

I expect at least half of these "failed" attempts are trying for a long-term disability. Shirkers.

Many people who attempt suicide really DON'T want to die, they just don't want the life they have and have lost hope in finding positive ways to change their lives for the better.

In other words, it's a desperate attempt to find a way out of what they perceive as an intolerable situation.

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-01-12   1:37:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

both titles are wrong. The number killed in Afghanistan is much higher then the suicide total. Those flown out to Germnany hospitals then die in the air are not counted in the totals.

The suicide total itself is wrong, it also is much higher.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2010-01-12   1:45:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

They comitt suicide rather than kill any more. Staying in the miltary means killing, getting out means killing those that lied to you about the reason for the war. Either way you got to keep killing. Some don't want to kill anymore, so they make sure they don't.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2010-01-12   1:48:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

http://www.alb2c3.com/suilodge/facovr1.htm

What is this domain and link, some kind of scam? Trying to trace IP addresses?

Registrant:
willoughby, martin
ATTN: A1B2C3.COM
c/o Network Solutions
P.O. Box 459
Drums, PA. 18222

TooConservative  posted on  2010-01-12   7:54:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

They comitt suicide rather than kill any more. Staying in the miltary means killing, getting out means killing those that lied to you about the reason for the war. Either way you got to keep killing. Some don't want to kill anymore, so they make sure they don't.

You merely assume this. I have yet to see a breakdown of successful suicides and attempts broken down by combat soldiers vs. support personnel.

You overlook that the military may be attracting a lot of fruitbats who were already mentally ill long before they joined the military. I'd say about a fourth of the young soldiers I've met are kind of directionless loser types and it wouldn't surprise me at all if they turned suicidal or shirker when deployed to a hostile foreign country. These are the soft pasty couch potatoes this country has incubated for decades and they can't handle a hostile environment.

At any rate, you obviously make assumptions not in evidence because you want to believe those things, not because you have any facts.

In the recession, the military is having less trouble recruiting able men and will no longer have to recruit the couch potatoes, the mentally unstable, those with criminal records. So I do expect to see these numbers of suicides/attempts decline over the next year.

TooConservative  posted on  2010-01-12   8:02:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Hard to tell what they're up to. But the info is from Suicide and Attempted Suicide by George Stone, paperback which sells on Amazon at $125 (used):

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obido...6709405/freecomputersoft/ Click "more" after "Throughout the world, 2000 people kill themselves each day..."

Tatarewicz  posted on  2010-01-13   0:35:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Interesting bit I saw at LRC today, thought I would add to this thread. This supports my earlier contention that the military is attracting a lot of mentally unstable recruits.

January 15, 2010 Here’s Some News that the Members of Congress Won’t Be Killing Themselves Over Posted by David Kramer on January 15, 2010 10:53 PM US ARMY SUICIDES IN 2009 A NEW RECORD Calling 2009 a “painful year,” the US Army announced today that it faced a record number of suicides among Army personnel, with 160 active-duty soldiers taking their own lives. This surpassed the previous record of 140 in 2008, and the previous record before that was 115 in 2007. The Army has been keeping track of suicides since 1980, with the level suddenly rising to epidemic levels in recent years. But despite the expectation that endless combat deployments would be playing a role in the deaths, officials say that about 1/3 of the soldiers who took their lives this year hadn’t yet been sent on any combat missions. [Perhaps they were having “potential murderer's” remorse.] I’m sorry if I’m being callous, but I can assure you that many civilians living in the countries where our troops shouldn’t be deployed in the first place are not sorry to hear this sad news. [Thanks to Travis Holte]

TooConservative  posted on  2010-01-16   23:18:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

The only thing I can conjecture about the "false" URL it's a gimmick to attract readers to advertising, something all newspapers do. The front page is all interesting news so you pick up the paper. Inside you find the adds. Alb2c3 takes an interesting item and gives a URL containing its sales pitches with the intent of attracting people unaware of their site. This would be my guess as to what's going on.

Tatarewicz  posted on  2010-01-17   6:12:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

What is this domain and link, some kind of scam?

Appears to have been a typo. Try the actual url:

www.a1b2c3.com/suilodge/facovr1.htm

Critter  posted on  2010-01-17   6:58:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

So what did you think of the reporting that 1/3 of the soldiers who offed themselves hadn't even been sent to a combat zone?

I thought that would surprise most people.

TooConservative  posted on  2010-01-17   7:19:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

That suicides began increasing significantly since 2001 indicates they have something to do with the Afghan and Iraq wars. Could be that pre-combat soldiers saw how war had devastated some of their comrades along with hearing horror stories from returnees of what goes on at the front the novices realized the military was far from the enjoyable adventure depicted in Hollywood movies. Then other than the glib assertion about a war on terror, soldiers, like the public, have not been given a reason for the two current wars which the Israeli lobby got congressmen to "launch" to protect Israel from its enemies and to detract from Zionist terrorist tactics against Palestinians.

Tatarewicz  posted on  2010-01-17   23:54:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

sharp one ;)

christine  posted on  2010-01-18   0:46:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Further note: The Army and the National Mental Health Institute have teamed up to begin a $50-million research program to examine factors behind soldier suicides...

http://newsmax.com/Newsfront/sol...ecord/2008/12/01/id/326863

Tatarewicz  posted on  2010-01-18   0:47:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

So what did you think of the reporting that 1/3 of the soldiers who offed themselves hadn't even been sent to a combat zone?

that's very surprising to me and makes no sense. is there any evidence or documentation that these pre-deployed recruits are being given psychotropic meds?

christine  posted on  2010-01-18   0:55:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

So what did you think of the reporting that 1/3 of the soldiers who offed themselves hadn't even been sent to a combat zone?

that's very surprising to me and makes no sense.

There is nothing unusual about that. It has always been that way.

It has always been that when combat looms, the cowards run, not commit suicide.

Suicide tending people can occur any time, any instance. Totally random pattern. You will see it seldom discussed but there is one factor that tends to influence such, that is when men are in a total or near total male atmosphere for a protracted period of time. All are affected to a degree but the majority are able to cope.

The military has done studies on it in the past.

Cynicom  posted on  2010-01-18   2:55:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

New VA stats show vet suicides up 26%, mostly among those who served in Iraq and Afghanistan.

http://www.truthout.org/healing-...with-vic-montgomery/56074

after viewing video click "26% increase in suicides" and note that Ira Katz of the VA tried to down play the suicide increase. Could he be another Israeli agent trying to downplay the disastrous consequences of US wars for Israel. Might be trouble with URL, but click item under "Most Popular."

Tatarewicz  posted on  2010-01-18   2:59:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

You will see it seldom discussed but there is one factor that tends to influence such, that is when men are in a total or near total male atmosphere for a protracted period of time.

Interesting.

But military men are less isolated from women now than they have ever been before during all phases of military life from training to deployment, so your argument would seem less compelling than at first glance.

TooConservative  posted on  2010-01-18   8:24:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

But military men are less isolated from women now than they have ever been before during all phases of military life from training to deployment, so your argument would seem less compelling than at first glance.

Perhaps you are speaking from experience, I am.

There is a difference between the terms "isolated" and "accessible". I wont go into that in detail.

The military went into this study in great depth. There was a difference in behavior of all facets, not just suicide, when a young mans daily routine was limited to men for extensive periods of time, especially those being away for the first time from a Mother, sisters etc all in daily attendance.

In the islands during Korea, as flight crews we were on duty 24/7 for a three month stretch. At least once during that confinement we flew to Japan for one reason, to let off steam. You can interpret that. The military did not allow that because they wanted to be nice to us, they wanted to maintain order and some measure of contentment.

The non flying people were there for 18 months, booze, no women and no hope. About once a month one would blow their brains out. All were young, first time away, etc etc. Older suicides did not happen as I recall.

The study went into this so far as to say that just the smell of women in daily proximity was a calming and controlling effect. Older suicides were rare, but still, we all had .45s but no ammunition. There was a reason for that.

Cynicom  posted on  2010-01-18   8:59:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

I'm just saying there is far more contact with women as soldiers and contractors now than there has ever been. Surely you're not suggesting today's troops are as isolated from women as they were in the Fifties.

TooConservative  posted on  2010-01-18   10:02:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

I'm just saying there is far more contact with women as soldiers and contractors now than there has ever been.

The Navy will soon be putting females on submarines. Aircraft carriers now have a ten per cent female crew. I wonder why that is??????

PC??? Maybe.

Time has nothing to do with the the behavior of men, it always remains constant.

We lived in typhoon proof concrete quarters with flat roofs. A half mile away or less was a fenced in married housing area. When the wives came out in the back yards to hang up wash or whatever, there would be a shout go up and an instant rush of men with binoculars up the fire ladder to the roof. Nothing to see twenty men all salivating and watching. When the ladies went indoors, there was much cursing and grumbling, back to our den and fetch out a bottle.

Man and time standstill, they never change.

Some of the islands there were no women and low ranking men were rationed booze. If you have never seen a man cry when you stuff a fifth of Seagrams into his coveralls on the ramp, you have no idea of what I speak.

Cynicom  posted on  2010-01-18   10:19:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Some of the islands there were no women and low ranking men were rationed booze. If you have never seen a man cry when you stuff a fifth of Seagrams into his coveralls on the ramp, you have no idea of what I speak.

Men who need booze that much don't make good soldiers to begin with.

You're talking about the mentally unfit and, yes, they will be more susceptible to suicide and criminal behavior.

TooConservative  posted on  2010-01-18   10:40:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

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