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Title: Is climate change raising the sea level on NC coast? (poll question)
Source:
TheGastonGazette
URL Source: http://www.gastongazette.com/news/sea-42629-predict-endangering.html
Published: Jan 17, 2010
Author: Barry Smith
Post Date: 2010-01-17 18:48:30 by buckeroo
Keywords: None
Views: 449
Comments: 34
RALEIGH - Some scientists predict that sea levels could rise by as much as a meter by the end of the century, endangering North Carolina’s low-lying barrier islands and coast. While sea levels have been rising for centuries, scientists and policy administrators attending a forum sponsored by the N.C. Division of Coastal Management last week were told that climate change is adding to the rise in sea levels. One meter is a little more than a yard, or 39.4 inches. "The coastal ecosystems will all migrate upward and landward," said Stanley Riggs, a geology professor at East Carolina University. Riggs said sea levels are rising "substantially faster" than in previous years. "The rate has doubled twice since 1800," Riggs said. "It’s now up to about a half a meter per century. We’re on that upward curve. A conservative continuation of that upward curve puts us at a meter by 2100." Roy Cordato, vice president for research at the John Locke Foundation, a conservative think tank in Raleigh, questions those figures. "I just don’t know where they get that data," Cordato said. Cordato countered that data from Wilmington shows that the sea level has risen five or six years from 1936 to 2005. He said that the numbers, coming from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, aren’t actually projections with probabilities assigned to them. "They’re actually storylines," Cordato said. "They latch on to these things, I think, to make an alarmist case.” During the forum, Virginia Burkett of the U.S. Geological Survey said that global sea level rises were 1.7 mm per year. From 1993 to 2003, sea levels rose 3.1 mm per year, she said. Burkett and Riggs said attributed the increases to land ice melting in arctic climates and running off into the ocean. Cordato countered, saying that arctic sea ice had increased in recent years and that sea ice had also been increasing in Antarctic regions. While Cordato and Riggs disagree on how much sea levels will likely rise in coming decades, they find common ground in what it should mean for fragile islands and coastal regions likely to be impacted by increases in sea levels. "Those islands that are low and narrow will be affected first and most extensively," Riggs said. He said that it’s impossible to predict exactly which areas will be affected. "I can’t sit here and say that the 1700 block and the 1900 block (of a particular street on an island) are in trouble," Riggs said. It’s the storms that, coupled with sea levels rising, actually move the shorelines, Riggs said. Riggs questioned construction in low-lying, high-hazard coastal areas. And he acknowledged that people with $1 million coastal homes could be in jeopardy of losing their investment. "I couldn’t agree with that more," Cordato said. He added that we shouldn’t have government-subsidized flood insurance for such areas. "It encourages people to build in risky areas and they don’t have to assume the risk themselves," Cordato said. Riggs said that shorelines aren’t the only areas that could be affected. He said that coastal estuaries and wetlands could also change. Barry Smith can be reached at barrysmith@freedom.com.
Poster Comment: BONUS ARTICLE: Kanyad Keshani Koshi, professor of environmental studies at the University of the South Pacific in Fiji, tells Christopher Joyce of National Public Radio (NPR) that if rising ocean waters "turn against" Fijians, their already low living standards will worsen. The island of Fiji Losing Land Because of Rising Sea Waters Fiji has livable lowland but the center is mountainous volcano surrounded by steep rocky slopes. This is inhospitable higher ground if the low lands become uninhabitable. Fiji, surrounded by the world's largest ocean, is racking up obvious affects of climate change. Though rising ocean waters are not obvious, changes are beginning to show. You can see "the exposed roots of coconut trees," as Simon McGree, Fiji's meteorological office chief climate scientist, told Joyce of NPR. McGree further said that real estate records, which indicate land boundaries, show that land is already lost to rising ocean waters. Even a small rise leads to potentially devastating weather effects. There are higher tides and storm surges. Other areas are seeing a drop in rainfall levels. There are stronger storms and unexpected Pacific area droughts. It is well known and proved that warmer waters and stormwater runoff carrying silt are hurting the Pacific's Great Barrier Reef. Clive Wilkinson, coordinator for the Global Coral Reef Monitoring Network, tells Joyce that the runoff soils are harming the coral and warmer waters are beginning to kill parts of the Great Barrier Reef. Wilkinson says that a warming Pacific doesn't just effect the coral and reef around the large island nations of the South Pacific. There is a much greater global effect. For instance, the unpopular El Nino Pacific Ocean pattern that brings droughts all over the southern hemisphere, in Indonesia, Australia, Africa, has a shrinking recurrence cycle. It is now recurring every seven and possible every four years. For all these reasons, New Zealand, along with Australia, is implementing a crisis plan. Joyce reports for NPR that there is a likely potential that millions of people will suffer from rising ocean waters, the stronger storms that come with them, and the loss of freshwater supplies. As reported on NPR, according to Adrian Macy, New Zealand's newly appointed climate ambassador, who was formerly ambassador to France, climate changes introduce "massive threats" to Pacific island economies and the threats can only be enlarged to humanitarian crises in the event of a mass Fiji Losing Land Because of Rising Sea Waters migration of people out of the islands. Macy also says that this is why New Zealand, and also Australia, are beginning to make "plans to handle climate refugees." As Kanyad Keshani Koshi said to NPR, "There are a lot of secondary impacts of climate change which will make the quality of life in the island Pacific very, very bad...." Christopher Joyce, "Pacific Island Cultures Brace for Climate Change," National Public Radio. URL: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=10891261&ps=bb1Southern Pacific Nations Prepare for Climate Related Evacuations
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#1. To: buckeroo (#0)
Climategate 2-US Government Involved in Data Manipulation
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
As long as this issue remains a political football being bounced back and forth between the corporatists and the globalist socialists, the influence of real science on politics is hindered. The anti-AGW crowd is mostly benefiting corporate interests. The pro-AGW crowd is mostly benefiting Fabians, who will in turn, feed back any taxation/monetary policy benefits back to the corporations. Who loses? People impacted by pollution of all kinds. For one thing, the AGW activists are talking about permitting more pollution in the third world by pollution credits. We can expect no change in cancer and birth defect increases, or in Autism numbers, or any other statistics that involve actual pollution. Why? People are lost in the carbon labyrinth when we don't even know what's at the root cause of some of these supposedly carbon-related problems. And of course the foot soldiers of the carbon camp don't want nuclear power. Politicization of this problem on both sides is damning us and our future in more ways than we can imagine.
As long as we're on the "9 out of 10 scientists" shit. Well said.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. “Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”
No one questions the fact that governments, no matter the level of government hide, conceal and alter the facts to enhance government directives with some sort of personal aim or ambition. But that is not my point of this thread. Global Warming is a fact. Please see my last post.
“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”
Please note the bias of your hopeful buy-in argument that I just italicized for your viewing comfort or reading pleasure. You are as corrupt as those you point a finger at.
“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”
Tell it to everyone who has been freezing their butts off all over the world this winter. You would be run out of town on a rail if you went to the little town where I used to live talking that stupid $#it.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Are you claiming to understand the problem already? What's your solution?
The Northern Latitudes have been unusually cold. But, the rise of average temperature still creeps each and every day.
“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”
Yes There are none. We are doomed with over 6.5Bn people sucking away the planet's resources. World wars are inevitable fighting for natural resources.
“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”
The wars aren't inevitable. There is enough to go around if we use it well. I don't think we have proof that our own activities are what is behind the majority of anything resembling global warming. If the globe is "warming" as you say, we don't know that we're responsible for the majority of it. Do you think we can actually prevent cycles in the weather like ice ages and periods of warming? Or shouldn't we talk about solving the results of those trends instead?
Where within this Universe do you live? Certainly, it isn't on Earth as we have wars all over the planet from the beginning of time. Are you a pro-government advocate? They use that BIG "if" too, just to suck your tax dollars. But anthropogenic causation isn't addressing the root cause of failure; you really missed the point. You need to deeply understand that no one can help this mess. No. There is no solution other than a world-wide blood-bath.
“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”
Interesting perspectives. At least you're not advocating that I give up on beef because its carbon footprint is higher than soybeans. You're not saying that we should transfer our wealth to the third world to aid in alternative energy production. And you're not saying that ice ages or warming ages can be prevented. What are you worried about if there isn't much that can be done?
New scientific studies suggest a trend that may have started in the late 1990s. The earth may be cooling. The Hadley Centre for Climate Change, part of the UK Met Office, tracks global temperature and shows a big drop in global temperature anomalies since January 2007. Based on the HadCRUT3 system of observed temperatures, global surface temperature anomalies have been trending down since 2001. January 2008 had the coldest anomaly since 1995. Temperature anomaly is the difference between observed temperature and the average temperature for the same time over a period of years. Meteorologist Anthony Watts compiled the HadCRUT3 temperature grids to make this intriguing plot of trends since 1988. Note the large drop in global temperature anomaly over the past year Closer to home, Dr John Christy of the University of Alabama, Huntsville, uses NASA data to track global temperatures. His latest report suggests that compared to seasonal norms, January 2008 was the coldest month since July 2006 and the coldest January since 2000. Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. I am not worried about anything. All I am saying is this issue is significant to all of us ... it is NOT a simple issue to be legislated although some feel so. Look around. Here is another fact: People of the area and visitors enjoyed zooming in into the beautiful sites views of La Paz, Lake Titicaca and the Andes from the top and had many insightful pleasures. The glacier on the mountain was more than 18,000 years old, and its melt ice was an important source of water for 1.6 million inhabitants in La Paz and the neighbouring city of El Alto. For decades, the Chacaltaya-glacier has also been a popular favourite destination for the middle class in the capital La Paz. In addition, since the 1930s, Chacaltaya-Mountains range has been home to Bolivia's only ski resort and the world's highest lift served skiing area, from where one can see the famous Titicaca Lake. The lift operated on weekends from November to March because it was too cold to ski in winter. In the dry winter period, the snow was too icy for safe skiing, so high season was in the South American summer, from November to March corresponding to the North American season. Over the past 20 years, the Chacaltaya-glacier has lost more than 80% of its volume because of global warming. In addition, although the snow covered it several times a year before the last complete melt, these periods became shorter. For the same reason, the once famous ski resort has gradually lost much of its appeal, and the old ski lift has slowly stopped. Chacaltaya glacier of the Bolivian capital is just one of several small-scale glaciers in the tropical parts of the Andes mountain range, which have shrunk significantly, posing a serious threat to water supplies. Because temperature increases continued, the Chacaltaya glacier completely disappeared from the earth's surface, taking with it an important part of Bolivian cultural and natural heritage as well as vital reserves of fresh water. “Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”
Not based on what I've seen. But I do think that we should move away from fossil fuels on the basis of resource competition and organic pollution. As a citizen in a northern hemispheric, advanced country, I would support legislation for research funding and industry development to make that economically viable. I'm not sure that your calls for global bloodbaths constitutes any sort of constructive participation in this issue, though.
Here is another: Called also the world's Alpine glacier, the glacier ends closest to the sea surface, in the middle of a temperate rainforest that makes the area a very beautiful site in the world. In addition, the ice melts into Wiaho River, which continues into the Tasmania Pacific. The glacier was named after Emperor Franz Josef 1 of Austria in 1865, but its more poetic Maori name is Ka Roimata o Hinehukatere, meaning "The Tears of Hinehukatere", deriving from a local legend about a girl whose lover dies in an avalanche. Her tears flowed down the mountainside, freezing and forming the glacier. Like some other glaciers Franz Josef has its own cycle of retreating and advancing, which is independent of climate change. After withdrawal of several kilometres between the 1940s and 1980s, Franz Josef Glacier started advance again in 1984. In the long term it is shrinking, however, as are all of the glaciers in the New Zealand Alps. Globally, the combined mass of mountain glaciers and snow cover has been declining consistently in both the northern and southern hemispheres. Between 1991 and 2004, the speed at which the glaciers of the world have been shrinking has accelerated, contributing 0.8 millimetres per annum to the rise in sea level. The glaciers in the Alps of New Zealand have been shrinking since 2000. On average, the glaciers in the Southern Alps have already been 38% shorter and have lost 25% of their area. According to glaciologists from New Zealand's Canterbury and Victoria universities, the Franz Josef Glacier could disappear within the next 100 years. By the end of the century, Hinehukaere may well have cried her last tear. “Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”
I am not calling for such an atrocity. But if you take all the data and attempt to create a solution, there are none. This means that mankind is fucked. When anyone is placed up against the wall, they fight back. It is the right of survival and self-determinism.
“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”
One bleep in several hundred years is not a trend, pal.
“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”
I'm on record as being an America firster. I don't think we should go out of our way to cause trouble for others, though. I do think we should stop our open immigration policy on the basis of preserving our resources for people now living in America. I'm just waiting for others to catch on there. Technologies can be developed to solve many of these problems, and where they can't, balance will be returned one way or another.
Yeah, and the pro-Gore idiots who pretend to be "scientists" cooking the books and lying doesn't help your case either.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Where? Desalination water plants powered by the USA government for the benefit of Israel? Meanwhile, here in Southern California I pay as much as 200 bucks/month and simultaneously the Central Valley (once the food basket of the world) has the federal government idling the water spickets. I am not a fool when it comes to ANY government mis-directing the will of the people. Here is another world glimpse: The Ice inlet runs 40 kilometres to the west from Greenland ice sheet to Disko Bay near Ilulissat town. Iceberg breaking from the glacier is often so large up to 3,300 ft in height. The glacier is a part of the Greenland ice sheet, which covers more than 80% of the island and is three kilometres deep at its thickest point. This is one of the fastest places on Earth where global warming will happen soon. According to a research issued in 2007, warm air temperatures and ocean currents melted over 240 cubic kilometres of ice into the sea. That is 97% more than the average annual melting between 1995 and 2006. While the climate changes dramatically, people's lives change as well. Since the permanent winter ice in Ilulissat ice inlet now disappeared, the population can no longer use their sled dogs to hunt seals. The storms threaten the way the people live, their houses and the traditional travel routes become dangerous. The polar bear has moved horizontally further north, and the narwhal are not so many anymore. With the sea ice melting and snow cover diminishing, rays from the sun are absorbed into the sea and earth instead of being reflected back into the atmosphere. This exacerbates global warming, causing the ice to melt faster. It is as if the world is ensconced in a self-heating electric blanket. The melting of the inland ice contributes to the rise of sea levels, causing salt-water intrusion and flooding of coastal areas around the world. Were the whole of the Greenland ice to melt, the oceans would rise by 72 metres. “Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”
I don't have a case, James; you do. You can't see the forest for the trees to use an old and highly valuable cliché that is more than apropos about your own perspective.
“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”
Necessity is the mother of invention. Obviously you haven't invented a better way to desalinate your water because you're still willing to pay $200 a month for the ordinary approach. One thing in common on both sides of the global warming debate is panic. On the anti-AGW side we have the whole depopulation bugaboo. On the AGW side we have calamity and mayhem caused by rising tides and drought. Meanwhile life goes on.
It sure does, doesn't it? “Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”
For the past 125 years, American political leadership has dictated that the third world be permitted to come here. One day Americans, some of whom had arrived themselves that way, will say "enough."
Prove your thesis outside of my contention of a blood-bath. Check this out: “Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”
One day we'll have to say no to Haiti and take care of our own needs. I say we're past that point now, but I'm still waiting for others to catch on.
It will NEVER happen with the US government, as we know it.
“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”
Why is that?
"It" considers itself above the law being benevolent. Meanwhile, here in the USA, more families are on welfare and foodstamps than in our entire history. It is a fascist and tyranical nation playing a game of world empire placing our own into poverty while playing on the calamities of the rest of the world.
“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”
lol.......even that is in dispute. Watch the vid I posted for you and you will get the gist. These are scientists and physicists who have documented that the government is only taking 1000 readings in HOT areas. Prior to 1990 they pulled from 6000 readings that included COLD and HOT areas. Say, Buck, are you a true believer that CO2 is to blame as well?
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Why didn't you watch and read my reply to your post #1 contained in post #5? Don't get carried away .... just yet.
“Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”
#2. To: buckeroo (#0)
#3. To: abraxas, buckeroo, Eric Stratton, farmfriend (#1)
#4. To: Eric Stratton (#2)
And some scientists have an agenda an incentives for personal gain.
Lord Acton
#5. To: abraxas (#1)
My name is abraxas and I used a YOUTUBE video to prove my point. YEP, INDEED ... I believe everything I singularly post. And when it comes to climate change in my very own expose of the facts of government colusion ... by golly, I get me all dumb-downed.
Peruvian-Danish fashion model, beauty queen and photographer Helena Christensen speaking to demonstrators in Copenhagen Climate demonstration 12/12/2009.
Tropical rainforests under the range of those shared mountains stretch on and over some of the heights in the area.
The ice has dominated the Andes peaks for thousands of years and has provided large and small rivers with water.
Quelccaya Ice Cap feeds some important rivers in Peru. Rivers run in the country include Rimac River, Mantaro River, Santa River, Urubamba River (Vilcanota), Ucayali River, Madre de Dios River, Tambopata River, Apurimac River and Huallaga River.
The vast quantities of ice on the Quelccaya Ice Sheet have equipped researchers with useful rich data on precipitation and temperatures since 1,500 years back in time.
Scientists have studied it and it enabled them to identify and calculate the annual snowfall from the earliest Andean civilizations.
Runoff from Quelccaya Ice Cap is vital for large parts of the Peruvian population. Farmers use the water of the mountain glaciers to irrigate their crops. They grow wheat and potatoes and Peruvian farmers cultivate considerable quantity of potatoes.
The Quelccaya Ice Cap also feeds dams by water and in big cities like Cuzco and Lima icecap provides residents with drinking water and electricity through hydroelectric dams.
By now, around two million people out of Lima's nearly nine million people live without access to public free and fresh water supply. Therefore, they are forced to buy water and pay high prices for it every day. They will be the first who experience the effects of water shortages.
Quelccaya Ice Sheet is no longer an inexhaustible water resource. It lost 20% of its area since 1978, and the rate of the decrease is accelerating. The once stable water flow has been erratic.
Within the next 30-50 years, the Quelccaya Ice Cap will probably completely disappear due to global warming. It will leave millions of Peruvians without a reliable water supply and the Andes peaks will be without their white beautiful cover.
#6. To: Eric Stratton (#2)
And some scientists have an agenda an incentives for personal gain.
#7. To: Deasy (#3)
As long as this issue remains a political football being bounced back and forth between the corporatists and the globalist socialists, the influence of real science on politics is hindered.
#8. To: buckeroo (#6)
Global Warming is a fact.
Lord Acton
#9. To: buckeroo (#7)
#10. To: James Deffenbach (#8)
Tell it to everyone who has been freezing their butts off all over the world this winter.
#11. To: Deasy (#9)
Are you claiming to understand the problem already?
What's your solution?
#12. To: buckeroo (#11)
#13. To: Deasy (#12)
The wars aren't inevitable.
There is enough to go around if we use it well.
I don't think we have proof that our own activities are what is behind the majority of anything resembling global warming. If the globe is "warming" as you say, we don't know that we're responsible for the majority of it.
Do you think we can actually prevent cycles in the weather like ice ages and periods of warming?
Or shouldn't we talk about solving the results of those trends instead?
#14. To: buckeroo (#13)
(Edited)
#15. To: buckeroo (#10)
Lord Acton
#16. To: Deasy (#14)
The once snow covered Chacaltaya Mountain rose to 5421 meters above sea level and the snow glowed under the moonlight above the Bolivian capital city of La Paz.
Do you believe these environmental issues can be administered by any political body?
#17. To: buckeroo (#16)
Do you believe these environmental issues can be administered by any political body?
#18. To: Deasy (#14)
Franz Josef Glacier is widely considered to be the jewel among the glaciers in the western coast of New Zealand. The reason why it is so unique is that it descends from almost 3,500 metres above sea level and continues down to only 240 metres above sea level. Thus, the glacier terminates at the lowest altitude.
Some idiot the other night on 4UM said 90% of the glaciers are growing.
#19. To: Deasy (#17)
I'm not sure that your calls for global bloodbaths constitutes any sort of constructive participation in this issue, though.
#20. To: James Deffenbach (#15)
The earth may be cooling.
#21. To: buckeroo (#19)
#22. To: buckeroo (#20)
One bleep in several hundred years is not a trend, pal.
Lord Acton
#23. To: Deasy (#21)
Technologies can be developed to solve many of these problems
Ilulissat Ice Inlet is a massive wall of icebergs, which stretches 60 kilometres from the town of Ilulissat to the ice cap of Greenland. This is one of the most beautiful and impressive places in the world. The Ice inlet breaks off from the (Jakobshavn Glacier) and the tongue of the glacier has retreated by 7 kilometres since 1992. It is the fast moving glacier in the world. What happens there considered the largest sudden changes.
#24. To: James Deffenbach (#22)
#25. To: buckeroo (#23)
#26. To: Deasy (#25)
Meanwhile life goes on.
#27. To: buckeroo (#26)
#28. To: Deasy (#27)
#29. To: buckeroo (#28)
#30. To: Deasy (#29)
#31. To: buckeroo (#30)
#32. To: Deasy (#31)
#33. To: buckeroo (#6)
Global Warming is a fact. Please see my last post.
#34. To: abraxas (#33)
My name is abraxas and I used a YOUTUBE video post#1 to prove my point. YEP, INDEED ... I believe everything I singularly post. And when it comes to climate change in my very own expose of the facts of government colusion ... by golly, I get me all dumb-downed.
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