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Dead Constitution
See other Dead Constitution Articles

Title: Alex Jones disrupts 2nd Amendment rally, divides protest
Source: YouTube
URL Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZT7BW2CaPUw
Published: Jan 25, 2010
Author: WACAustin
Post Date: 2010-01-27 09:58:48 by randge
Keywords: Alex Jones, guns shows, protest, Austin
Views: 4383
Comments: 390

Alex Jones Exposes... Alex Jones!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZT7BW2CaPUw

Alex Jones Turns Peaceful Gun Rights Demonstration Into CHAOS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdJ4zhiB2s4

You Gotta Hard On for Me

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWM17wiHhww

Click for Full Text!


Poster Comment:

I won't tax you with a lot of blabber & half-baked opinion. You all here are big folks and know the meaning of what you see.

Patience with the second video. There is a lot of lens time on the pavement, but it bears watching all the way through.

Most interested in your comments.

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  


TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest

Comments (1-310) not displayed.
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#311. To: Mister Clean (#306)

I'm not talking about Federal taxes alone.

Phoenix just instituted a 2% on food. Add that to all other 'hidden taxes' *plus* what the fed, state & local folks want and you're at or near 50%. It's about addition, not about a better accountant.

How old are you again?

You never did answer that question.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2010-02-04   21:19:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#312. To: Mister Clean (#309)

Like Tim Guitner(sp)?

He got in trouble by becoming the Sec of Treasury.

He had to pay the back taxes and interest.

BOO HOO

If my corporation games the system heavy penalties are involved, and it the Friqqing SOT doesn't know the fairly simple rules of houskeepers it shows he is fundamentally dishonest.

He is an embaressment to the notion of fiscal integrity.

"Satan / Cheney in "08" Just Foreign Policy Iraqi Death Estimator

tom007  posted on  2010-02-04   21:19:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#313. To: Jethro Tull (#304)

Lets start with having lost the freedom to demonstrate civilly without being herded into a free speech zone, only to be overtly filmed by some s'bag in an attempt to intimidate.

Were the Tea Party demonstrators who went to D.C. last year herded into a free speech zone?

The free speech zones are usually set up for events like IMF meetings and political conventions. People can still protest, that freedom has not been taken away.

I recall that when Obama was elected, people in cities all over the US went out into the streets to celebrate... without permits and without being herded into speech zones.

The people in the video at the top of this post were out on the street and not in some speech zone.

What's second on your list?

Mister Clean  posted on  2010-02-04   21:20:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#314. To: Deasy (#308)

Not in America, land of the "free." Obviously we're no different from any other conformist nations. We use force to secure the compliant behavior of our subjects, just like any other country. We'll put citizens under our orderly boot heels if they will not comply.

So you're an anarchist? You want no government?

If people can avoid paying taxes based on their conscience, then we will have anarchy. Is that what you want?

Mister Clean  posted on  2010-02-04   21:22:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#315. To: Mister Clean (#313)

Were the Tea Party demonstrators who went to D.C. last year herded into a free speech zone?

No they were not.

Because they are deluded befuddled supporters of the US Status Quo, and the mindless worship of the militerism of the US.

You are good with that no doubt, because you are prollly on the gravy train.

"Satan / Cheney in "08" Just Foreign Policy Iraqi Death Estimator

tom007  posted on  2010-02-04   21:25:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#316. To: Mister Clean (#313)

Were the Tea Party demonstrators who went to D.C. last year herded into a free speech zone?

You are approaching Neo Con Nuttery.

"Satan / Cheney in "08" Just Foreign Policy Iraqi Death Estimator

tom007  posted on  2010-02-04   21:27:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#317. To: Mister Clean (#313)

Were the Tea Party demonstrators who went to D.C. last year herded into a free speech zone?

I'm guessing they were penned in to an area designated by the PTB and filmed no doubt. If you have more to add, please present it.

I was filmed at a local one and proudly gave whomever it was the bird. That didn't happen in the 60s, but how would you know?

Want more kid?

How about the way the Bush adm. used the Pentagon's military analysts in a campaign to generate favourable news coverage of the Administration's wartime performance, an examination discovered by The New York Times?

Stalin would blush at the boldness of such raw political propaganda.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2010-02-04   21:28:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#318. To: Jethro Tull (#311)

I'm not talking about Federal taxes alone.

Phoenix just instituted a 2% on food. Add that to all other 'hidden taxes' *plus* what the fed, state & local folks want and you're at or near 50%. It's about addition, not about a better accountant.

How old are you again?

You never did answer that question.

I would agree that taxes everywhere are too high but talk of being a tax slave is a bit over the top.

I'm not interested in discussing personal details but I'm over 30 and under 65.

Mister Clean  posted on  2010-02-04   21:29:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#319. To: Mister Clean (#314)

So you're an anarchist? You want no government?

If people can avoid paying taxes based on their conscience, then we will have anarchy. Is that what you want?

Some accountabily.

The USG has just started a war in another nation in the last few weeks.

Since the other two were going so well.

"Satan / Cheney in "08" Just Foreign Policy Iraqi Death Estimator

tom007  posted on  2010-02-04   21:29:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#320. To: Mister Clean (#318)

Roger that.

"Satan / Cheney in "08" Just Foreign Policy Iraqi Death Estimator

tom007  posted on  2010-02-04   21:29:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#321. To: tom007 (#315)

No they were not.

Because they are deluded befuddled supporters of the US Status Quo, and the mindless worship of the militerism of the US.

In other words, they were able to exercise their rights to free speech and assembly and free association without being herded into a speech zone.

Mister Clean  posted on  2010-02-04   21:30:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#322. To: tom007, Mister Clean (#316)

You are approaching Neo Con Nuttery.

Mmmm, walnut pancakes!!!!

You give yet, Tom?

In 2007, the FBI reported on concern about white supremacists recruiting soldiers, saying "hundreds" of neo-Nazis were in the active military. But in April, a Department of Homeland Security report on extremism that reiterated much the same point was widely criticized by veterans groups and some conservative politicians as being unpatriotic, leading the Justice Department to retract the DHS report.

Critics acknowledge that extremism in the Army is a touchy political subject.

Dakmar  posted on  2010-02-04   21:30:48 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#323. To: Jethro Tull (#317)

I'm guessing they were penned in to an area designated by the PTB and filmed no doubt. If you have more to add, please present it.

Tea Party protesters were all over DC and all over the national Mall. They were not herded into any zone.

I'm still waiting to see what you can't do today that you could do 40 years ago.

Mister Clean  posted on  2010-02-04   21:32:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#324. To: tom007 (#312)

If my corporation games the system heavy penalties are involved, and it the Friqqing SOT doesn't know the fairly simple rules of houskeepers it shows he is fundamentally dishonest.

He had to pay the back taxes which just proves my statement that if you don't pay your taxes you get in trouble.

Mister Clean  posted on  2010-02-04   21:36:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#325. To: Mister Clean (#313)

People can still protest, that freedom has not been taken away.

You are correct.

One can go into their closet, and close the closet door, and hold up a sign saying they do not support these endless wars for coporations for hours on end - that freedom has nor been taken away from them.

You are a real Thomas Jefferson, MC.

I think you could do well to apply as an internet enforcer in N Korea.

"Satan / Cheney in "08" Just Foreign Policy Iraqi Death Estimator

tom007  posted on  2010-02-04   21:39:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#326. To: tom007 (#325)

One can go into their closet, and close the closet door, and hold up a sign saying they do not support these endless wars for coporations for hours on end

You must have missed the antiwar rallies that took place all over the US, including large ones in NYC and DC protesting Bush's war on Iraq. They were outside, by the way.

Just because you weren't paying attention doesn't mean they didn't happen.

Mister Clean  posted on  2010-02-04   21:42:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#327. To: Mister Clean (#298)

Do you think Alex Jones has accomplished anything in the fight he claims to be waging?

if accomplishment is measured in making a whole lot of folks aware (for starters) of the two party fraud, the corruptness that exists in government, and the power/shadow behind the facade, then, i would say, yes.

christine  posted on  2010-02-04   21:43:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#328. To: Mister Clean (#323)

Tea Party protesters were all over DC and all over the national Mall. They were not herded into any zone.

They had a PERMIT and yes they were herded into a zone, specifically the zone granted by the PERMIT........some free speech and right to assemble.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-02-04   21:43:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#329. To: Mister Clean (#323)

You want more?

How about buying a gun w/o an anal exam?

Boarding a plane w/o being molested.

Speaking w/o fear of someone yelling "hate speech."

I just told you I can't assemble peaceably w/o some govt. flack filming me in an attempt to intimidate. Hello? Anybody home???

I also told you the MSM was in the tank with the past Administration in an attempt to shape my opinion of their illegal, immoral wars. I seriously doubt that stopped since Obama was selected.

These examples jump all over my right to live in a free society that isn't shaped by government interference.

Grow a pair kid. This government has become empowered 100 fold thanks to sheeple such as yourself who defend it's intrusion into my life, but I expect such nonsense from a 30-something.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2010-02-04   21:47:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#330. To: christine (#327)

if accomplishment is measured in making a whole lot of folks aware (for starters) of the two party fraud, the corruptness that exists in government, and the power/shadow behind the facade, then, i would say, yes.

And the result of this supposed increase in awareness is....? Nothing.

You realize there is no way to measure how many people Alex Jones has allegedly made aware of the "two party fraud" but judging by the fact that the two party system is still intact, I'd say the number is most likely quite small.

Mister Clean  posted on  2010-02-04   21:49:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#331. To: Mister Clean (#294)

"I don't buy into the idea that Americans are under some horrible tyranny."

We blame folks like you for allowing it to continue.

"Hey buddy, what do you think about the apathy and ignorance most folks express when asked about corruption in government?"

"Well, I don't know about it so, I don't care about it."

OneDollarDVDProject.com

wakeup  posted on  2010-02-04   21:52:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#332. To: abraxas (#328)

They had a PERMIT and yes they were herded into a zone, specifically the zone granted by the PERMIT........some free speech and right to assemble.

Nobody herded them, they walked through the streets and took the Metro on their own. They gathered on the Mall because having a protest in the ghettos of Southeast DC wouldn't have worked out so well.

I'm talking about the 9/12 event. They assembled, they spoke. Nobody was shot. I don't think anyone was even arrested.

Mister Clean  posted on  2010-02-04   21:53:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#333. To: christine (#295)

you must be an IRS agent.

Or, he hasn't had them at the front door, yet.

What is that famous quote... you don't see tyranny until you resist it.

OneDollarDVDProject.com

wakeup  posted on  2010-02-04   21:56:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#334. To: Jethro Tull (#329)

How about buying a gun w/o an anal exam?

If you received an anal exam when trying to buy a gun you should move to a different state.  

Boarding a plane w/o being molested.

I've never been "molested" when going through airport security.  You are resorting to hyperbole in an attempt to make a point which tells me your argument is weak.

Speaking w/o fear of someone yelling "hate speech."

If you're afraid to speak that's your choice, not a loss of freedom.  If you don't see the difference your're hopless.

I just told you I can't assemble peaceably w/o some govt. flack filming me in an attempt to intimidate. Hello? Anybody home???

I told you that tens of thousands of people did assemble peacefully in DC last year and they obviously weren't intimidated nor did they give a shit about being videotaped.  You sound like a whiner.

I also told you the MSM was in the tank with the past Administration in an attempt to shape my opinion of their illegal, immoral wars. I seriously doubt that stopped since Obama was selected.

That's not a loss of freedom.  

Mister Clean  posted on  2010-02-04   21:59:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#335. To: Mister Clean (#332) (Edited)

I'm always suspicious of so called conservatives who insist on arguing episodic minutia to derail 4um posters from talking and becoming friends.

In 2007, the FBI reported on concern about white supremacists recruiting soldiers, saying "hundreds" of neo-Nazis were in the active military. But in April, a Department of Homeland Security report on extremism that reiterated much the same point was widely criticized by veterans groups and some conservative politicians as being unpatriotic, leading the Justice Department to retract the DHS report.

Critics acknowledge that extremism in the Army is a touchy political subject.

Dakmar  posted on  2010-02-04   21:59:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#336. To: wakeup (#331)

We blame folks like you for allowing it to continue.

Can you list the accomplishments that Alex Jones has achieved in the fight against tyranny?

Waking people up doesn't matter unless it's yielded some concrete results.

Mister Clean  posted on  2010-02-04   22:00:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#337. To: christine (#335)

Can you change my login name to "episodic minutia"?

In 2007, the FBI reported on concern about white supremacists recruiting soldiers, saying "hundreds" of neo-Nazis were in the active military. But in April, a Department of Homeland Security report on extremism that reiterated much the same point was widely criticized by veterans groups and some conservative politicians as being unpatriotic, leading the Justice Department to retract the DHS report.

Critics acknowledge that extremism in the Army is a touchy political subject.

Dakmar  posted on  2010-02-04   22:02:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#338. To: Dakmar, christine (#337)

Can you change my login name to "episodic minutia"?

I'm sure that'd be no problem, but you'll always be "Little Dakkie Honey Bunny" to us.

Godfrey Smith: Mike, I wouldn't worry. Prosperity is just around the corner.
Mike Flaherty: Yeah, it's been there a long time. I wish I knew which corner.
My Man Godfrey (1936)

Esso  posted on  2010-02-04   22:09:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#339. To: Esso (#338)

Reminds me of a story told by the ancient egyptians:

Eye, bird, boat, sun, bird, bird...

In 2007, the FBI reported on concern about white supremacists recruiting soldiers, saying "hundreds" of neo-Nazis were in the active military. But in April, a Department of Homeland Security report on extremism that reiterated much the same point was widely criticized by veterans groups and some conservative politicians as being unpatriotic, leading the Justice Department to retract the DHS report.

Critics acknowledge that extremism in the Army is a touchy political subject.

Dakmar  posted on  2010-02-04   22:12:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#340. To: Mister Clean (#334)

Adios pant load. Life is too short.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2010-02-04   22:14:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#341. To: Mister Clean (#299)

Have you written down all the things you could do 40 years ago that you can't do today?

I'd love to see that list.

Forty years ago, I could buy four gallons of gas for a dollar bill or, a silver dollar. They were the same to me, four quarters, a dollar or a silver dollar... all the same. A dollar was close to an ounce of silver.

Today, it takes ten or twelve of those pieces of paper to do that, yet, the silver dollar will still get me those four gallons. Somehow, someone made my paper money less valuable than it was. In order for them to do that, the backing by gold and silver had to be dropped and allowing bills to be printed up without the precious asset to back it. Who had the power to pull such a scam? Who benefitted all these years slowly devaluing the paper we call money? Tyrants. Who suffers? We do.

Therefore, all of us have suffered under tyranny. Some see it and some don't. Acknowledged or not, it is there.

OneDollarDVDProject.com

wakeup  posted on  2010-02-04   22:15:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#342. To: Dakmar (#339)

Now that's funny. I'll bet at least 1-in- 100,000 Uhhmerkkins is clever enough to figure that out.

Godfrey Smith: Mike, I wouldn't worry. Prosperity is just around the corner.
Mike Flaherty: Yeah, it's been there a long time. I wish I knew which corner.
My Man Godfrey (1936)

Esso  posted on  2010-02-04   22:17:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#343. To: Jethro Tull (#340)

Life is too short.

Get back to me when you can actually list all the things you can't do today that you could do 40 years ago.

Mister Clean  posted on  2010-02-04   22:17:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#344. To: Jethro Tull, Mr Clean (#340)

Adios pant load. Life is too short.

Anchors away clean, adios MFer

Show Me Obama's Birth Certificate!

Flintlock  posted on  2010-02-04   22:18:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#345. To: christine (#327)

if accomplishment is measured in making a whole lot of folks aware (for starters) of the two party fraud, the corruptness that exists in government, and the power/shadow behind the facade, then, i would say, yes.

Yes

One by One.

A LOT of folks I deal with Know somethings wrong.

A Lot.

"Satan / Cheney in "08" Just Foreign Policy Iraqi Death Estimator

tom007  posted on  2010-02-04   22:18:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#346. To: Esso (#342)

I'll bet at least 1-in- 100,000 Uhhmerkkins is clever enough to figure that out.

I'm too lazy to undertake any of this, but damnit it DOES look so easy to start a cult and get rich, is it possible even quiet desperation athiests will finally master psych101 parlour tricks and oust the really, really, really fucking retarded?

In 2007, the FBI reported on concern about white supremacists recruiting soldiers, saying "hundreds" of neo-Nazis were in the active military. But in April, a Department of Homeland Security report on extremism that reiterated much the same point was widely criticized by veterans groups and some conservative politicians as being unpatriotic, leading the Justice Department to retract the DHS report.

Critics acknowledge that extremism in the Army is a touchy political subject.

Dakmar  posted on  2010-02-04   22:22:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#347. To: Mister Clean (#343) (Edited)

Get back to me when you can actually list all the things you can't do today that you could do 40 years ago.

How about 45 years?
____________________

Buy a gun mail order

Live in a wetback free society

Walk in any neighborhood at any time of day

Speak English in Miami and LA

Not be involved in a meaningless foreign war

Only need one person to work to support a family

Drive without insurance (if you wanted to)

That's just for starters!

Show Me Obama's Birth Certificate!

Flintlock  posted on  2010-02-04   22:23:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#348. To: wakeup (#341)

Somehow, someone made my paper money less valuable than it was. In order for them to do that, the backing by gold and silver had to be dropped and allowing bills to be printed up without the precious asset to back it. Who had the power to pull such a scam? Who benefitted all these years slowly devaluing the paper we call money? Tyrants. Who suffers? We do.

I could argue that devaluation is the destiny of every fiat currency but that's not because of tyranny.

You're not being oppressed because you can't buy 4 gallons of milk with a dollar bill.

Mister Clean  posted on  2010-02-04   22:26:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#349. To: Mister Clean (#348) (Edited)

You're not being oppressed because you can't buy 4 gallons of milk with a dollar bill.

Wow, you milked that one for all it was worth, chum! Can I get a WHODAT?

In 2007, the FBI reported on concern about white supremacists recruiting soldiers, saying "hundreds" of neo-Nazis were in the active military. But in April, a Department of Homeland Security report on extremism that reiterated much the same point was widely criticized by veterans groups and some conservative politicians as being unpatriotic, leading the Justice Department to retract the DHS report.

Critics acknowledge that extremism in the Army is a touchy political subject.

Dakmar  posted on  2010-02-04   22:28:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#350. To: Mister Clean (#332)

Nobody herded them, they walked through the streets and took the Metro on their own. They gathered on the Mall because having a protest in the ghettos of Southeast DC wouldn't have worked out so well.

I'm talking about the 9/12 event. They assembled, they spoke. Nobody was shot. I don't think anyone was even arrested.

Balony......you are herded off the sidewalks in DC for crying out loud. There is enforcement at every turn. I know what you are talking about. Nobody was shot.....plenty were arrested, as usual for PERMIT protests in DC.

Here's a short list of charges you can be slapped with while exercising your right to assemble:

A. DC Charges

Incommoding. This is blocking vehicle or pedestrian traffic on the streets, sidewalks, and other walkways. This is by far the most common charge we see when protestors sit down in the street. Sidewalks are trickier because you generally have a right to engage in free speech activities on the public sidewalks; but if you so clog them that no one else can use the sidewalks, you might be charged with incommoding. Maximum penalty is a $250 fine and/or 90 days in jail. DC Code § 22-1107. The charge of disorderly conduct is essentially the same. DC Code § 22-1121.

Note that Obstructing bridges connecting DC and Virginia is punishable by an additional fine of at least $1,000 and up to $5,000, and/or up to 30 days in jail. DC Code § 22-1123.

Failure to obey a Police Officer. Often called "failure to disperse," this charge is possible when the police decide to close a street or clear a path and you refuse to move. The order they give you must be "lawful," which means that if the police issue an unconstitutional order, there is no offense in ignoring it. But police authority is very broad and we won’t know if the order was unconstitutional until trial. If the order turns out to have been lawful and you failed to obey it, you can be fined $100-$1,000. DC Muni. Reg. §§ 18-2000.2 & 2000.10.

Unlawful entry on property (trespassing). Remaining on private property after being told to leave is punishable by a fine up to $100 and/or up to 6 months in jail. For government buildings and the surrounding land, there must be some reason that you have been asked to leave, such as to prevent disruption or to maintain security. DC Code § 22-3102.

Resisting or interfering with a police officer is a violation of the same law as assault on a police officer (below). You may not stand in the path of an officer (especially if they are trying to make an arrest) or pull away from them or help another person to pull away from an officer trying to make an arrest. In addition to violating this law (which is quite serious in itself -- up to 5 years), you may be charged with aiding and abetting (below). Resisting arrest is unlawful even if the officer has no rightful basis for arresting you.

Failure to appear. If you have ever been arrested before and did not come to court when instructed to do so, there is a possibility that a warrant will have been issued for your arrest for "failure to appear." Outstanding warrants of this kind from other parts of the country may or may not show up during processing, depending on how thoroughly the jurisdiction where you were arrested has sought the assistance of other jurisdictions. It is best, and probably likeliest, to assume that the authorities here will know if you skipped a court date anywhere else in the country. Failure to appear for a DC court date is a separate offense, so beyond the penalties for whatever you were first arrested for, you can be fined up to the maximum for that offense, and/or an additional 180 days in jail. If you were originally booked on a felony charge, failure to appear is punishable by up to 5 years. DC Code § 22-1110(3)- (4).

False statement. This can come up with forms you are asked to complete before being released. If you put something untrue on a form that says making a false statement is punishable by criminal penalties, you can be fined $1,000 and/or be sentenced to 180 days in jail. DC Code § 22-2514.

The following charges are inconsistent with compliance with the Nonviolence Code of Conduct that everyone involved in the A16 action has agreed to follow. We therefore do not expect to see these, but mention them in case of overcharging by the police.

All participants in this particular action are asked to agree to these action guidelines. Having this basic agreement allows people from many backgrounds, movements, and beliefs to work together. They are not philosophical or political requirements or judgments about the validity of some tactics over others. These guidelines are basic agreements that create a basis for trust so that we can work together for this action and know what to expect from each other.

1) We will use no violence, physical or verbal, towards any person

2) We will carry no weapons

3) We will not bring or use any alcohol or illegal drugs

4) We will not destroy property

Assault on a Police Officer. Any unwanted touching of a police officer is an assault. Touching anything they are holding (nightstick, bullhorn, etc.) is the same as touching the officer. Same for throwing anything at an officer, even if you only accidentally hit them. This is a serious offense, a felony, with a possible $5,000 fine and/or 5 years in prison. DC Code § 22-505.

Destruction of property. Less than $250 in damage is a misdemeanor punishable by a maximum $1,000 fine and/or 180 days in jail. More than $250 in damage is a felony, with a maximum penalty of a $5,000 fine and/or 10 years in prison. DC Code § 22-403. Even if there is no "destruction," there is a separate crime of defacing public or private property. DC Code § 22-3112.1.

Also, you should know that these charges exist, although it would be very unusual to see them brought against protestors:

Kidnapping. It is possible to be convicted of kidnapping for confining someone against their will, even without transporting them anywhere. Be very careful about blocking all the exits of hotels and offices. It is an extremely serious offense -- you can be sentenced to life imprisonment.

Rioting or inciting to riot. A group that acts violently and creates "grave danger" of injury or property damage can be fined up to $1,000 and/or sentenced to 180 days in jail. If anyone is harmed or if more than $5,000 in damage occurs, everyone to urged others to take part can receive up to 10 years in prison and/or a $10,000 fine.

Aiding and Abetting. We have not seen this charge used much, but it is possible that if you help someone commit a crime, you can be charged even if you do not take any actions personally. If you assist them before the crime is committed, you can be charged with the same offense. DC Code § 22-105. If you assist the person after they have committed the crime, you can receive a penalty up to half of the maximum they are subject to. DC Code § 22-106.

Conspiracy. Similar to aiding and abetting, when two or more people work together to do something illegal, they can both be charged with the additional offense of conspiracy. Maximum punishment is a $10,000 fine and/or 5 years in prison. DC Code § 22-105a.

Unlawful assembly; profane and indecent language. Most jurisdictions have laws like this on the books. As applied to political protest and speech, they are generally unconstitutional and unenforceable. Only individuals in the crowd who become violent or threatening can be convicted under this law. Maximum punishment is $250 fine or 90 days in jail. DC Code § 22-1107.

Obstruction of justice. Interfering with a police officer is illegal. Please see resisting or interfering with a police officer above, as the conduct described there is a serious crime. However, bad television has confused some people as to what "obstruction of justice" means. It is not illegal to tell someone being arrested to keep quiet, to ask for a lawyer, etc. It only becomes obstruction of justice if you threaten a witness, intending to intimidate them into refusing to testify truthfully, or if you destroy evidence. DC Code § 22- 722(a) & 723.

You never have to talk to the police. Sometimes a prosecutor might be able to subpoena you, but then you will have an official document ordering you to answer questions, and you will have time to get legal assistance before doing so. Absent an arrest, you do not even have to identify yourself to the police.

B. Possible federal charges

Finally, there are various federal laws that might come into play in a city like Washington. Demonstrations in most parks in this city are regulated by 36 C.F.R. § 7.96(g), which specifies when permits are required and what types of activity are prohibited. Violating any of those rules is punishable by fines and up to six months in jail, under 36 C.F.R. § 1.3.

Destruction of federal property is a serious crime. If you do anything less than $1,000 in damage it is punishable by a fine and/or up to 1 year in prison; more serious damage can lead to up to 10 years in prison.

Assault on a foreign official (maximum 3 years for simple assault and up to 10 years if a weapon is used; 18 U.S.C. § 112(a)) and intimidation or harassment of a foreign official (up to 6 months in jail; 18 U.S.C. § 112(b)) protect the person, accommodation, and car of any "official guest."

Some people have expressed concern that the government may designate the IMF and World Bank buildings "foreign missions." Please know that this changes nothing. You have the same First Amendment rights when protesting outside an embassy or foreign mission as you do anywhere else. It is still lawful to peaceably congregate and express your political views. During the apartheid era, some people were arrested under laws specific to embassies and foreign missions. Many parts of those laws were declared unconstitutional in 1988 in Boos v. Barry and have since been repealed. The sections regarding congregations were not struck down, but were severely limited. The US Supreme Court ruled that police authority to order such a gathering to disperse when "is limited to groups posing a security threat." When a group is posing a security threat, the police can order it to disperse whether it’s a foreign mission or a supermarket or anything else. There might be different laws that come into play here, but what you can and cannot do lawfully is not altered by the designation of an area as a foreign mission. A few people have speculated that the government may use the foreign mission designation as an excuse for creating a "secured zone" around the building, but the truth is that they have the same authority and constitutional limits on authority to do this regardless of whether or not it is a foreign mission or just private property. If the designation "foreign mission" is used, its purpose is probably to cause confusion and discomfort -- it can’t do much more.

Assaulting, resisting or impeding a federal official is similar to the DC laws discussed above, except there are maximum punishments of 1 to 10 years, depending on whether a weapon was used. 18 U.S.C. § 111.

Finally, the constitutional limitations and exceptions for violating the rules or regulations of a federal building (maximum 30 days and/or a $50 fine) are the same as the similar charges under DC laws listed above.

Two other bits of information:

The police do not have to say anything to you upon arrest, including telling you your "rights" or what you are being arrested for.

Absent an arrest situation, if a police officer approaches you (on the street, for instance) and asks you to identify yourself, you do not have to do so. There is no requirement generally that individuals identify themselves to police officers or carry identification cards (except while driving). If this happens to you, politely decline to identify yourself and ask the officer if you are under arrest or if you are free to leave. If he/she responds that you are free to leave, do so.

This is as true for 9-12 protesters as it is for PETA. All of these fines and offences are a good money maker for DC. You are naive if you fail to aknowledge this truth.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-02-04   22:37:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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