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Religion
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Title: Academy chapel to add outdoor circle to worship areas (New worship area for pagans and Wicca at Air Force Academy)
Source: www.usafa.af.mil
URL Source: http://www.usafa.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123187157
Published: Jan 31, 2010
Author: Staff Sgt. Don Branum
Post Date: 2010-01-31 15:19:17 by Ferret Mike
Keywords: None
Views: 1005
Comments: 60


Tech. Sgt. Robert Longcrier uses white sage to consecrate an Earth-centered worship area on the hill overlooking the Cadet Chapel and the Visitor Center at the Air Force Academy just after sunrise on the winter solstice, Dec. 21, 2009. The chapel is scheduled to officially designate the circle as a Pagan chapel during a dedication ceremony in March 2010. Sergeant Longcrier is the Earth-centered ley leader at the Academy. (U.S. Air Force photo/Staff Sgt. Don Branum)

1/26/2010 - U.S. AIR FORCE ACADEMY, Colo. -- The Air Force Academy chapel will add a worship area for followers of Earth-centered religions during a dedication ceremony, which is tentatively scheduled to be held at the circle March 10.

The circle, located atop the hill overlooking the Cadet Chapel and Visitor Center, will be the latest addition to a collection of worship areas that includes Protestant, Catholic, Jewish, Muslim and Buddhist sacred spaces.

Tech. Sgt. Brandon Longcrier, NCO in charge of the Academy's Astronautics laboratories, worked with the chapel to create the official worship area for both cadets and other servicemembers in the Colorado Springs area who practice Earth-centered spirituality.

"Feel free to check the site out, but treat it as you would any other religious structure," he said.

The stones that now form the inner and outer rings of the circle once sat near the Visitor Center, where the chance of erosion made the rocks a safety hazard. The 10th Civil Engineer Squadron moved the rocks to the top of the hill in spring and early summer. Once finished, the circle will also include materials from a smaller circle that Sergeant Longcrier briefly set up in Jacks Valley.

"We used the (Jacks Valley) circle during Basic Cadet Training, and it was great," he said. However, the new circle offers significant advantages.

"The circle that we secured in December is much bigger, better and closer to the cadet area," he explained. "This will allow cadets to use the circle anytime they feel the need."

The Academy's chaplains have supported Sergeant Longcrier's efforts every step of the way, the NCO said.

"There really haven't been any obstacles for the new circle," he said. "The chaplain's office has been 100-percent supportive."

"Every servicemember is charged with defending freedom for all Americans, and that includes freedom to practice our religion of choice or, for that matter, not to practice any faith at all," said Chaplain (Lt. Col.) William Ziegler, Cadet Wing chaplain. "Being in the military isn't just a job -- it's a calling. We all take an oath to support and defend the Constitution, and that means we've all sworn to protect one another's religious liberties. We all put on our uniforms the same way; we're all Airmen first."

The presence of diverse worship areas reflects a sea change from five years ago, when reports surfaced alleging religious intolerance at the Academy. Sergeant Longcrier became Pagan shortly after arriving at the Academy in 2006 and said he believes the climate has improved dramatically.

"When I first arrived here, Earth-centered cadets didn't have anywhere to call home," he said. "Now, they meet every Monday night, they get to go on retreats, and they have a stone circle. ... We have representation on the Cadet Interfaith Council, and I even meet with the Chaplains at Peterson Air Force Base once a year to discuss religious climate."

Earth-centered spirituality includes traditions such as Wicca, Druidism and several other religious paths that, while relatively new, trace their roots to pre-Christian Europe, Sergeant Longcrier said. Gerald Gardner founded the first Wiccan tradition in England in 1952, with neo-Druidism following in the early 1960s.

Some Earth-centered traditions involve the worship of gods and goddesses, whereas others may involve only one deity or none at all. Reincarnation is a popular concept, as is rebirth and celebrating the cycle of the seasons.

Famous outdoor worship circles include Stonehenge and Avebury in England and Native American sites such as the Bighorn Medicine Wheel in Wyoming and Cahokia Henge in Missouri. A worship circle at Fort Hood, Texas, became a flashpoint for discussions about Paganism in the U.S. military after it was established by the Sacred Well Congregation in 1999.

The Fort Hood Open Circle was vandalized on four separate occasions from 1999 to 2000, including an incident Oct. 27, 2000, in which the half-ton limestone altar was destroyed outright. In response, a member of the Sacred Well Congregation wrote, "If we speak together, we are a chorus to be heard. If we whisper alone, we are but a sigh in the dead of night."

"We want to create that chorus," Chaplain Ziegler said. "We want to invite the Academy leadership, the Cadet Interfaith Council, the news media and people from every religious background for the dedication ceremony. We want this dedication service to be another example of celebrating the freedom we enjoy as well as the freedom we, as Airmen, have pledged to defend." (1 image)

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#1. To: Ferret Mike, Disgusted (#0)

This has got to be upsetting a lot of fundamentalist Christians. That'll help them to see how voting for Sarah Palin (or her replacement) next year is the only choice they have for "saving the country."

Deasy  posted on  2010-01-31   15:27:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Deasy (#1)

I used to catch much indirect fire over the Wicca on my dogtags. Personally like this move very much.


Ferret Mike  posted on  2010-01-31   15:28:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Ferret Mike (#2)

Wicca is mostly Masonic gibberish and phony history.

Deasy  posted on  2010-01-31   15:30:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Deasy (#3)

And you are telling me this humorous misrepresenting of my religion because...?


Ferret Mike  posted on  2010-01-31   15:31:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Ferret Mike (#0)

AF of my day we barely tolerated Catholics let alone Pagans.

Cynicom  posted on  2010-01-31   15:40:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Cynicom (#5)

Yeah, just a few year ago there was much controversy about all the proselytizing fundies were doing there. It is nice to see them taking the First Amendment seriously. This circle is very low impact and very much appreciated by people like me as it allows people of my faith to get to know each other and to manifest our religion better in our daily lives.

This is a good thing, we have several like it locally as well.


Ferret Mike  posted on  2010-01-31   15:46:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Ferret Mike (#0)

If the government is going to recognize one fairytale invisible sky creature, then they have no choice but to recognize all fairytale invisible sky creatures.

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976

The purpose of the legal system is to protect the elites from the wrath of those they plunder.- Elliott Jackalope

"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat

F.A. Hayek Fan  posted on  2010-01-31   16:04:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: F.A. Hayek Fan (#7)

Yep, I know the Pastafarians at DU are ecstatic at this turn of events.


Ferret Mike  posted on  2010-01-31   16:10:08 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Ferret Mike (#0)

Will they all get naked and get into a brawling love-fest on You-Tube for a publick religious worship exercise exhorting demons and casting demons? If not, I don't care.

"The most terrifying words in the English language are, I'm from the government and I am here to help." -- Ronald Reagan, circa 1976

buckeroo  posted on  2010-01-31   16:13:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Ferret Mike (#0)

weasel

First you deny being a gaia worshiping wacko wicca, now you post an article about it.

between your leftest obama loving and your wacko gaia worship, is there ANY loony anti-American idea you don't embrace?

I doubt it.

Show Me Obama's Birth Certificate!

Flintlock  posted on  2010-01-31   16:16:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: buckeroo (#9)

Real Witches Practice Samhain: Wicca on the Rise in U.S.

More Americans Are Wiccan, and Will Celebrate Samhain, Not Halloween, Saturday

By RUSSELL GOLDMAN

Oct. 30, 2009—

Patti Wigington is a soccer mom. She is the vice president of her local PTA.

And she's a witch.

This Saturday while her neighborhood outside Columbus, Ohio, is crawling with costumed witches in search of candy, Wigington and a group of other local witches will not be celebrating Halloween, but the new year festival Samhain, which also occurs Oct. 31.

In her backyard, Wigington and six other local women who make up her coven will stand in a circle, each holding a lit candle dedicated to a dead ancestor. They will offer an invocation in each direction of the four winds. They will build an altar upon which they will offer their deceased ancestors gifts of food and wine and "celebrate the coming of the dark half of the year& and do a ritual that honors death."

When she gets to the part about death, Wigington, a middle-aged mother of three, stops for moment in her explanation of a typical Samhain ritual.

"Look," she says, "I know some people are freaked out by death. But death is part of the life cycle. This time of year we say farewell to the garden, to the crops and to our ancestors. We welcome and celebrate the coming of the dark half of the year.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2375218/posts

Well Buck, I have been to ceremonies that involved nakedness, but we don't do the Hell Devil thing. That sort of trip is a Christian thing.


Ferret Mike  posted on  2010-01-31   16:18:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Flintlock (#10)

I saw that exchange. Funny!

Deasy  posted on  2010-01-31   16:19:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Flintlock (#10)

I denied not a thing, dick head.

I told you quite accurately your use of Gaia is your word choice. You just never read for content having a brain on perpetual TILT and always short on pinball flippers.


Ferret Mike  posted on  2010-01-31   16:21:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Deasy (#12)

I saw that exchange. Funny!

So did a lot of people.

It proves the Weasel is not only a wacko, but a liar too.

Show Me Obama's Birth Certificate!

Flintlock  posted on  2010-01-31   16:22:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: All (#7)

If the government is going to recognize one fairytale invisible sky creature, then they have no choice but to recognize all fairytale invisible sky creatures.

I'm going to enjoy seeing Christians who claim to be constitutionalists scream in outrage over this. I've seen it time and again. Many of them appear only to believe in the first amendment when it favors their Christian cults. Either that or they believe that since this nation was "founded by Christians" no other group of fairytale believers deserve the same considerations they demand for themselves.

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976

The purpose of the legal system is to protect the elites from the wrath of those they plunder.- Elliott Jackalope

"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat

F.A. Hayek Fan  posted on  2010-01-31   16:23:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Flintlock (#14)

It's all in the way we look at it. I prefer "funny."

Deasy  posted on  2010-01-31   16:23:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: F.A. Hayek Fan (#15)

Careful what you wish for. This will definitely be grist for the right wing Christian mill. Watch for it. I can see Pat Robertson and others using this to campaign for a Republican.

Deasy  posted on  2010-01-31   16:25:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: Deasy (#17)

"Careful what you wish for. This will definitely be grist for the right wing Christian mill. Watch for it. I can see Pat Robertson and others using this to campaign for a Republican."

You can count on that.


Ferret Mike  posted on  2010-01-31   16:27:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Ferret Mike (#11)

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2375218/posts

That place has gone to pot, so to speak! ROTFL.

"The most terrifying words in the English language are, I'm from the government and I am here to help." -- Ronald Reagan, circa 1976

buckeroo  posted on  2010-01-31   16:29:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Ferret Mike (#18)

You can count on that.

My problem isn't that a Republican will get elected. It's that only a Republican or a Democrat will get elected. We're buffeted back and forth between puppets who claim to be saving us from fates worse than death when they both have the same agenda. How do Wiccans feel about Obama's continued involvement in Afghanistan? Nothing changed. NOTHING. Even the Gaia worshipers really got nothing. Who gives a flying ding dong if they now have an official circle? They could have always made their own before. Otherwise they weren't worth their salt.

Deasy  posted on  2010-01-31   16:37:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: Ferret Mike, F.A. Hayek Fan, Flintlock, RickyJ (#18)

wayne
January 31, 2010 1:55 PM

Yes, the US was founded for religios freedom. For christianity. We dont persecute people because of thier religion. But we allow muslims and athiests and whatnot to sue Jesus out of public life. Try going to a muslim country and sueing to have Allah taken out of the classroom.Muslims and others start crying and beating drums if a politician says something they think is suspect. Go to a muslim contry, and you better not even let them know you are christian.We need to do that here.Do your false religon thing and shut up! Be glad we dont do to you what you would do to us in your country. Now wiccans want to pray and dance to satan on govt property. It just never stops

blog.beliefnet.com/deacon...wiccan-worship-space.html

Pathetic.

Deasy  posted on  2010-01-31   16:39:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Ferret Mike (#0)

Academy chapel to add outdoor circle to worship areas (New worship area for pagans and Wicca at Air Force Academy)

They should ELIMINATE all shrines and worship areas and stop wasting tax dollars creating more. The First Amendment gives all a right to practice whatever religion folks want.......but it doesn't say anything about taxdollars wasted on worship areas in the military or any other goobermint property.

If religious groups want shrines.......pay for them with your own bake sale money and buy some PRIVATE property to build them on. This is ridiculous.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-01-31   16:41:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: abraxas (#22)

It's hard to send people off to die without letting them seek spiritual solace on the way. Chaplains will always be present on the battlefield and on military bases.

What we're seeing here is Balkanization. Then again, Christians have a penchant for marching off to war.

Deasy  posted on  2010-01-31   16:44:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Deasy (#23)

Christians have a penchant for marching off to war.

Onward, Christian soldiers, marching as to war, With the cross of Jesus going on before. Christ, the royal Master, leads against the foe; Forward into battle see His banners go!

Refrain

Onward, Christian soldiers, marching as to war, With the cross of Jesus going on before.

At the sign of triumph Satan’s host doth flee; On then, Christian soldiers, on to victory! Hell’s foundations quiver at the shout of praise; Brothers lift your voices, loud your anthems raise.

Refrain

Like a mighty army moves the church of God; Brothers, we are treading where the saints have trod. We are not divided, all one body we, One in hope and doctrine, one in charity.

Refrain

What the saints established that I hold for true. What the saints believèd, that I believe too. Long as earth endureth, men the faith will hold, Kingdoms, nations, empires, in destruction rolled.

Refrain

Crowns and thrones may perish, kingdoms rise and wane, But the church of Jesus constant will remain. Gates of hell can never gainst that church prevail; We have Christ’s own promise, and that cannot fail.

Refrain

Onward then, ye people, join our happy throng, Blend with ours your voices in the triumph song. Glory, laud and honor unto Christ the King, This through countless ages men and angels sing.

Refrain

"The most terrifying words in the English language are, I'm from the government and I am here to help." -- Ronald Reagan, circa 1976

buckeroo  posted on  2010-01-31   16:48:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: Deasy (#23)

It's hard to send people off to die without letting them seek spiritual solace on the way. Chaplains will always be present on the battlefield and on military bases

Obviously, it is even harder to interpret and follow the Constitution. I support the right of each person to worship as they wish.......I don't support paying for their shrines--this includes Christians.

Yes, have spiritual support on the battlefield and on the base. A human to provide the support is sufficient, no shrine or cirle or synagog or church or statue should be provided at the taxpayer expense.

When will this end? Shall we put in shrines for the athiests next? How about building tabernacles for the Mormons on every bases? Sanctuaries for every variety of Baptist? Shall the satanists also have shrines built?

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-01-31   16:52:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: Deasy (#17)

Careful what you wish for. This will definitely be grist for the right wing Christian mill. Watch for it. I can see Pat Robertson and others using this to campaign for a Republican.

While the Protestants make up the largest group of Christians in the U.S., the largest single Christian denomination in the U.S. are Catholics. After that are the Baptists, Methodist/Wesleyan, Lutheran, Presbyterian so on and so forth, most of which hands down reject Pat Robertson's "theology."

Robertson couldn't win the primary when he ran for president in 1988 and I do not believe he would do it today either.

Let them bitch and moan all they want. Only 83% of Americans are Christian and out of those 82%, a large enough percentage of them are either liberal or nonpolitical to the point that I do not believe they would vote for the type of mouth-breather you are describing. That's not even counting the number of people that claim to be Christian but only because it helps keep peace in the family or makes them look good to their boss (or customers).

IMHO, the people you are describing are a very small minority of the overall Christian population.

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976

The purpose of the legal system is to protect the elites from the wrath of those they plunder.- Elliott Jackalope

"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat

F.A. Hayek Fan  posted on  2010-01-31   16:52:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Deasy (#21)

Yes, the US was founded for religios freedom. For christianity.

This moron makes my point better than I ever could.

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976

The purpose of the legal system is to protect the elites from the wrath of those they plunder.- Elliott Jackalope

"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat

F.A. Hayek Fan  posted on  2010-01-31   16:54:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: F.A. Hayek Fan (#27)

He votes, and he watches the 700 club.

Deasy  posted on  2010-01-31   16:55:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Deasy (#21)

But we allow muslims and athiests and whatnot to sue Jesus out of public life.

Really? I would agree with Atheists doing this, but Muslims? This guy is obviously a Christian Zionist. I've seen tons more Jews bitch about Christianity in public life than Muslims.

See this jerkwad wants his cake and eat it too. He wants Jesus in public life while at the same time wanting to keep every other fairytale invisible sky creature out of public life.

IMHO it should either be one way or the other. Either they are ALL part of public life or NONE of them are a part of public life.

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976

The purpose of the legal system is to protect the elites from the wrath of those they plunder.- Elliott Jackalope

"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat

F.A. Hayek Fan  posted on  2010-01-31   17:00:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: Deasy (#28)

He votes, and he watches the 700 club.

I still believe that he and his ilk are a very small minority of the Christian population.

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976

The purpose of the legal system is to protect the elites from the wrath of those they plunder.- Elliott Jackalope

"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat

F.A. Hayek Fan  posted on  2010-01-31   17:01:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: F.A. Hayek Fan (#29)

He's probably a registered Republican too.

Deasy  posted on  2010-01-31   17:01:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Deasy (#31)

He's probably a registered Republican too.

LOL! Of that there is no doubt in my mind. LOL!

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976

The purpose of the legal system is to protect the elites from the wrath of those they plunder.- Elliott Jackalope

"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat

F.A. Hayek Fan  posted on  2010-01-31   17:05:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: F.A. Hayek Fan (#27)

(snip) More than 130 religious groups have endorsed, or certified, chaplains to serve in uniform, but the Pentagon has denied efforts by Wiccan organizations to join the list.

Once chaplains are accepted into the military, they are paid, trained and deployed by the government. But they remain subservient to their endorsers, who can cancel their endorsements at any time. That is what happened to Larsen, according to unclassified military e-mail messages.

When the Sacred Well Congregation applied July 31 to become Larsen's new endorser, the Army initially cited a minor bureaucratic obstacle: It could not find a copy of his previous endorsement from the Chaplaincy of Full Gospel Churches, a Dallas-based association of Pentecostal churches.

The following day, a senior Army chaplain telephoned the Chaplaincy to ask for the form.

Within hours, the Pentecostal group sent Larsen an urgent e-mail saying it had received a "strange call" from the Army Chief of Chaplains office. The caller "mentioned that a Donald M. Larsen ... was requesting a change-over ... to Wiccans," the e-mail said. "Please communicate with this office, as we do not believe it is you."

In his reply, Larsen pleaded that the Chaplaincy not cancel his endorsement until he could complete the switch, but the Chaplaincy immediately severed its ties to Larsen. The Sacred Well Congregation could not renew his papers because it was not yet an official endorser. Larsen was ordered to cease functioning immediately as a chaplain and pulled from Iraq.

Lt. Col. Randall Dolinger, the Army Chief of Chaplains spokesman, denied any discrimination: "What you're really dealing with is more of a personal drama, what one person has been through and the choices he's made. Plus, the fact that the military does have Catch-22s."

Brig. Gen. Cecil Richardson, the Air Force's deputy chief of chaplains, says there are simply too few Wiccans in the military to justify a full-time chaplain.

According to Pentagon figures, however, some faiths with similarly small numbers in the ranks do have chaplains. Among the nearly 2,900 clergy on active duty are 41 Mormon chaplains for 17,513 Mormons in uniform, 22 rabbis for 4,038 Jews, 11 imams for 3,386 Muslims, six teachers for 636 Christian Scientists, and one Buddhist chaplain for 4,546 Buddhists.

Larsen has since gone home to Melba, Idaho. Divorced since 2004, he is living with his children and serving as an artillery officer in the Idaho Army National Guard

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003586870_wiccan24.html

This is from an article about a Christian Chaplain who converted to my faith and was denied the right to switch to continue his job in his religion of choice.

Chaplains have an important role in the miltary, and I know from how Christian chaplains worm talk of Jesus into every oppertunity to talk to a military member it would be nice to see the myopia about this aspect of how religion is treated in the military to change too.


Ferret Mike  posted on  2010-01-31   17:07:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: Ferret Mike (#33)

Wiccans and Afghanistan. What about it?

Deasy  posted on  2010-01-31   17:16:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: Ferret Mike (#33)

Chaplains have an important role in the miltary, and I know from how Christian chaplains worm talk of Jesus into every oppertunity to talk to a military member it would be nice to see the myopia about this aspect of how religion is treated in the military to change too.

I spent 15 years in the army and was in Panama, Saudi/Kuwait/Iraq (Desert Storm), Somalia, Haiti and Bosnia. I never once had need of a sky-god propagandist and think the money spent paying their salaries could be better spent improving the living conditions of lower enlisted troops, both in the barracks and on post housing.

As far as I'm concerned, if the various religious groups and their believers serving in uniform want to speak with sky god propagandists, then they can get together and pay for them themselves.

Of course that will never happen. The military needs the sky god propagandists to ensure that the soldiers will believe that the wars they are fighting are righteous and that they are on the side of "god" and will fly to heaven once they are killed.

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976

The purpose of the legal system is to protect the elites from the wrath of those they plunder.- Elliott Jackalope

"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat

F.A. Hayek Fan  posted on  2010-01-31   17:27:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: F.A. Hayek Fan, all (#35)

As far as I'm concerned, if the various religious groups and their believers serving in uniform want to speak with sky god propagandists, then they can get together and pay for them themselves.

Of course that will never happen. The military needs the sky god propagandists to ensure that the soldiers will believe that the wars they are fighting are righteous and that they are on the side of "god" and will fly to heaven once they are killed.

bump that!!

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-01-31   17:36:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: Deasy (#34)

Much of what we now know as the modern Pagan movement arose out of the counter- culture of the 1960's. Both the anti-war movement and the influx of pacifist ideas from Eastern religions contributed to a suspicion of all things having to do with the military.

Back then, anyone putting on a uniform was classified an unprincipled murderer. Not all of this misapprehension about the military has been vanquished, as is clearly demonstrated to anyone who has read Isaac Bonewits' position on policemen and soldiers.

To those who would attack the military professional because they fear that his or her career choice is in violation of the Rede - that first one will do no harm - the knowledge that there are a growing number of their brothers and sisters that chose this path is both an affront and an assault on their beliefs.

There is a popular myth in the neo-Pagan community that claims that once there was a golden age of peace and prosperity in a Goddess worshipping society. Actually, historical and archaeological evidence indicates that Pagans lived in a very dangerous world, threatened by wild beasts, natural disasters, and warring tribes.

Out of such a world was the Warrior archetype born as one of the roles that a man would be called upon to play in his lifetime. The Warrior was not the berserker, not the hardened killer, not the raider that preyed on others, but picked up a weapon in defense of his home and kin.

He was Father, Brother, Husband as well. In times of peace he would tend his herds and fields and live in harmony with his neighbors. But when his clan was threatened, he would take up arms to defend them. Thus the Warrior was a position of honor and reverence, for he was the one who placed his living body between his kinfolk and that which threatened their survival.

Many centuries have come and gone since our ancestors worshipped in the old ways, but the truth is that the world remains a very dangerous place. Now we are threatened with atomic weapons, ethnic cleansing, terrorist organizations, rogue states, chemical/biological warfare, and perpetrators of genocide. Our very survival as a people and the continuance of our way of life requires that we sometimes fight to defend it.

The Rede does not preclude our acting in self-defense when threatened. The modern Pagan soldier who places himself in harm's way to protect his countrymen is no less than the Warrior of ancient times. He does not kill uncaringly, or wage war for glory or thrill, he prefers the way of the peacekeeper over that of the soldier.

He does not blindly follow orders, rather he weighs what is asked of him against the ethical framework of his religion. But he also understands that until the world becomes a different place, he or she will be called upon in time of crisis to place their life on the line.

Hope this answers your curiousity.


Ferret Mike  posted on  2010-01-31   17:36:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: Ferret Mike (#0) (Edited)

Personally, I don't worship dirt.

Matter is inanimate - it is nothing but energy and space.

Reality lies withing the spirit, or if you prefer - the soul. Or as Bergson put it "le force vitale". It is that which imbues matter, whether the human body, animal, or plant with life. Otherwise it's just dirt.

However, as the Aussies put it, "each cat his own rat".

WHATEVER, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings; believe and cling to that doctrine, and take it as your guide. ~ Gauttama Siddhartha - The Buddha

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-01-31   17:42:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Ferret Mike (#37)

Hope this answers your curiousity.

Yes, by obscuring my question with a lot of details you've answered it anyway. You make excuses for Obama even if he's not changing anything.

Deasy  posted on  2010-01-31   17:44:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: Ferret Mike (#0)

(New worship area for pagans and Wicca at Air Force Academy)

Well at least they haven't created a satanic temple or church there, and invited Col. Michael Aquino to host the black masses, yet at least...


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-01-31   17:49:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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