See other Immigration Articles
Title: Immigration Debate Prompts Growing Jewish-Latino Ties
Source:
The Forward
URL Source: http://www.forward.com/articles/124 ... romptsGrowingJewish-LatinoTies
Published: Jan 31, 2010
Author: Nathan Guttman
Post Date: 2010-01-31 17:13:07 by Jethro Tull
Keywords: None
Views: 1001
Comments: 106
Washington — Even as health care reform twists in the wind, immigration policy looms as the next big political debate — and Hispanics and Jews are moving to the forefront in a burgeoning political alliance. The next three months are seen as critical in the fight for immigration reform, but the weakening of the Democrats’ grip on Congress with the recent loss of a key Massachusetts Senate seat does not bode well for the passage of reform legislation. The Jewish-Latino alliance on immigration issues builds on the heritage and experience of the Jewish community and on the enthusiasm and urgent needs of the Hispanic community, which has a strong interest in issues of family unification and the status of the some 12 million illegal immigrants, most of them from Latin America. But Jewish activists also see the joint work as an opening for cooperation with the Hispanic community on other issues, such as Israel. “If we want to engage with the Latino community on issues that are of concern for us, including Israel, we need to engage on issues that bother their community,” said Gideon Aronoff, president and CEO of the Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society. “We want to create growing bonds with the Latino community, and we cannot create these bonds if we are indifferent to the issues that are of concern to them.” Alliance: Luis Gutierrez (left) and Charles Schumer are trying to drive reform through Congress.Some advocates view the ethnic backgrounds of the two key lawmakers leading the drive for immigration reform as symbolic of the growing alliance on the issue. In the House, the main immigration reform bill was presented Rep. Luis Gutierrez, an Illinois Democrat, and in the Senate it is expected that New York’s Senator Charles Schumer will soon present his version of immigration reform legislation. The Gutierrez bill has been praised by advocates for immigrants as providing answers to most of the concerns of the Hispanic community, but so far it has failed to gain any Republican support. Schumer’s bill, now in the making, is expected to have more bipartisan appeal, by taking a nuanced approach to the thorny issue of providing a path to legalization for millions of illegal immigrants. While Democratic-backed health care reform legislation was uniformly opposed by Republicans and now seems to be stuck in Congress, advocates agree that immigration reform stands no chance of passage without bipartisan support. But immigration advocates believe that the blow suffered by health care reform supporters following the Massachusetts Senate election does not necessarily dictate the same fate for immigration reform. Indeed, said HIAS’s Aronoff, it might even help the cause, due to increased pressure on lawmakers to show progress on key issues. “All Americans have seen the gridlock in Washington and are very frustrated with it,” he said. “Now the president and Congress need to show that they can solve problems for Americans.” But with the political clock ticking, supporters of reform fear that major legislation is becoming harder to pass, and so they set the first half of 2010 as a desired deadline for passing legislation. “Every day we get closer to the elections, the harder it becomes,” said Richard Foltin, director of national and legislative affairs at the American Jewish Committee, referring to upcoming congressional elections. Jewish communal support for immigration reform is organized around several principles, including the need for a path to legalization for illegal immigrants; a mechanism for dealing with future immigration waves; speeding up work on family unification; integrating new immigrants into American society; and finding, as Jewish immigration advocates put it, an “effective and humane” way of enforcing immigration laws and border control. This last point seems to be a growing concern within the Jewish community, said Jane Ramsey, executive director of the Jewish Council on Urban Affairs based in Chicago. Ramsey, whose organization has been working closely with Hispanic groups, stressed that while both communities strongly support immigration reform, there is still a need to instill in members of the Jewish community the importance of the issue, which for most Jews carries a symbolic, not personal, importance. “Our community is one step removed,” she said, “and therefore it is very important to make it real for people by interacting with the Latino community.” While the Jewish organizational world is essentially united on this issue, some have argued that the Jewish rank-and-file is not on entirely the same page as communal leaders. The supposed divide between religious leaders of various stripes and their rank-and-file was the focus of a recent survey, sponsored by the Center for Immigration Studies, a Washington-based group that opposes granting illegal immigrants a path to legalization and instead argues that many will return to their home countries if immigration laws are better enforced. That poll, which was conducted online by Zogby International in December, found that Jews were roughly equally divided between those who prefer a stepped-up enforcement approach and those who prefer granting legal status with a path to citizenship. Jewish immigration advocates have questioned the survey’s methodology, but they agree that there are diverse opinions within the community. Yet the CIS poll also found that Jews were still considerably more likely than members of other religious groups to support granting legal status to illegal immigrants, a finding that immigration advocates say rings true. The organized Jewish community is more committed than ever to immigration reform. A letter supporting immigration reform, which will be sent out to all Senate offices in early February, was signed by dozens of national Jewish organizations. Joining forces with the Hispanic community has been a longstanding goal for Jewish groups. But what seems to be a rare chance to reform immigration laws has helped galvanize the relationship. At a January 10 roundtable in Durham, N.C., Jewish and Latino activists shared their immigration experiences and looked for ways to work together in support of the legislation. “We broke into groups and spoke about the similarity between our grandparents’ immigration and their experience nowadays,” said Stephanie Grosser, who has been coordinating outreach efforts for HIAS. One of the issues activists from both sides discussed was hate and hostility directed at immigrants — both past and present-day, whether they were Jewish newcomers at the turn of the 20th century or Latinos in recent decades. “After we talked about why the Jewish community cares about immigration, two Latino women from the crowd came up and hugged me,” Grosser recalled. Cooperation between the two communities goes beyond the issue of immigration reform and includes many joint programs on the local level. On the national level, Jewish and Latino groups are part of broader coalitions organizing a Washington rally in March in favor of immigration reform, which will be preceded by advocacy work in congressional districts during the February congressional recess. Jewish groups bring to the table their experience and well-established network of political contacts, a contribution highly appreciated by Hispanic organizers. “For us, as newcomers to the society, this experience is extraordinary,” said Gutavo Torres, president of Casa Maryland, a Hispanic group active in the metropolitan Washington area. “They know how to work through the system, how to lobby, how to advocate. The Jewish community has a lot of experience and a lot of power.” Jewish organizations have been increasing their efforts to reach out to the Hispanic community for several years, and most national groups have established joint programs and sponsored Jewish-Hispanic events. With the rapid growth of the Hispanic community and with its rising political clout, Jewish groups see added value in building bridges to the community. “We are working on immigration, because it is the right thing to do, because it is part of our values,” said the AJC’s Foltin. “But the dialogue also creates better understanding for the needs of our community.”
Poster Comment: The Israelis have mined their border with Lebanon. Then they come here and preach to us about tolerance toward illegals. On the bright side, it appears the Hispanics no longer need Blacks. I wonder if they'll catch on to the game?
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#1. To: Jethro Tull (#0)
Anglos haven't caught on to the game yet, why would the Hispanics?
I go back to Buchanan and his speech in Houston in '92 at the GOP convention. I get it, as do many, many others. Don't confuse "not getting it" with those who lack the courage to stand up to it. If you think for a moment the tons and tons of ammunition that is disappearing off the shelves of gun stores is for target practice, I suggest you reconsider the real reason for it's purchase.
My honest opinion is that it's for the Moslem hordes and the Obama socialists. The same group will happily vote in the Jewish hordes and the Palin socialists.
Personally? I could care less is every Muslim in America caught one between the eyes. Their 'diversity' I can do without. I feel far less threatened by the Palin socialists, from a safety perspective, than I do from MS-13. But that's just me.
The conservatives like Palin are a far worse threat than Obama. It's during their administrations that the so-called patriots are least likely to react when their liberties are being stripped. I'm happy that you're wary of Obama. That's not enough.
I disagree, Palin is far less benign that the Black nationalist.
She's a Zionist, just like he is. That you think he's worse than she is shows just exactly what we're up against. There's no difference between them. They both favor amnesty. They both coddle the bankers. But she makes you more comfortable. The same goes for millions of other pickup truck driving rednecks across this country. FOX News tells them Palin's one of them, and they believe it. THAT is why she's more dangerous.
There's a difference in domestic policy, with Palin doing less taxes, and no threat to our 2nd and 1st. That's the political reality and until a 3rd party becomes viable, I'm voting my pocketbook. Eff all these pseudo patriots who when push comes to shove choose to retreat to the womb of the Republican party.
Both the 2nd and 1st are long, long lost. Bush took more of our 1st away than any president before him. He was a 'conservative Christian' like Palin, remember? Bush also taxed and spent the bejesus out of us. Obama's budget situation is really Bush's fault for this high tech Zionist war we're now in, thanks to the Christer Zionist Republicans. Patriotic Republicans did way more damage while America wasn't looking because they were waving flags and talking about cutting spending, than any Democrats ever could have gotten away with. Remember now that the Tea Parties are controlled from the inside, they're really not going to "help" our liberties. So don't imagine that their attacks on Obama are really "patriotic." It's all part of the same thing, but REPUBLICANS like Palin can stab us more times in the back than someone like Obama can, because she's a Christian and she waves a flag.
Perhaps the 2nd is lost for you, but not in my neck of the woods. As far as the tea parties, have you ever been to one? Yes? No? I have, and neither party was welcomed. Perhaps this will help. There's a fight on for control, perhaps you'd like to get involved. It sure beats waiting for RP to do the right thing.
I knew the control was lost when I heard Sean Hannity talking them up. Sorry, it's all over. You don't control the media. The corporations do. The rednecks aren't wise yet. When they're ripping the McCain Palin stickers off their trucks, I'll pay more attention.
Your answer please?
I don't go to Tea Party rallies.
But you know all about them......gotcha......
You're enthused. That's the only result I can see.
9/12 DC Tea Party March footage. All I have to do is look around, past the New Left camera's foreground. Pathetic.
There you go again being presumptuous. Don't confuse pragmatism with enthusiasm. In '10 and '12 we can either vote for a D or an R. In case you've missed it some high profile Rs are being primaried (McCain and Crist to name two) with more fiscally conservative candidates. In the case of McCain, Hayworth is better on illegals. So to continue, we will have two choices and I'm going w/the person who has the best chance to damage the swill that is currently holding office. I haven't a clue what you plan to do since there will be no anti-Zionists on the ballot who have a snowballs chance of winning. That blows hard, but again, until a 3rd party rises up (RP you SUCK) we're stuck.
The article I posted is current. It's a better glimpse of what things might be.
Fiscally conservative means nothing now. I personally think voting just encourages the bastards.
Do what you want. I could care less.
"one of the confab's organizers, Mark Skoda, recently told TPMmuckraker he'd support inviting RNC chair Michael Steele." And: "As we've reported, former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin is the keynoter for the Feb. 4-6 event, and Rep. Michele Bachmann will be the highlight luncheon speaker."
Bachmann isn't going, so you're late on that, but the crux of the article is the awareness of a core group of independents that the GOP would love to absorb the enthusiasm and energy they bring. Maybe they won't, maybe they will, the struggle is currently ongoing. But hey, some think it's best to sit on their ass and type impressive missives that accomplish absolutely nothing. *Anything* and *anyone* is better than Obama, and that's my strategy. And yours is?
Minnesota Republican Rep. Michele Bachmann says she won't attend the event, scheduled for early February in Nashville, Tenn. Tennessee Rep. Marsha Blackburn has announced she's dropping out as well. Both lawmakers are prominent backers of the tea party movement. However, their offices released statements Tuesday citing concerns about how funds raised by the convention might be used.
Well done! You've stumbled on that split I was talking about!! Wouldn't it be great if the independent faction came out on top and actually did what RP never even tried to do?
Reaction to the puppet is ineffective. Obama is just another brick in the wall. I don't take him any more seriously than I did Bush or Clinton. The people have to change. I don't see that happening yet, but the opportunity is there.. The economic downturn could have been a trigger, but so far it's been squandered, just like the Great Depression was. My strategy is to try to help people avoid partisan pitfalls. They have better things to do with their lives.
Yes.
I saw the meshing of Black nationalism and socialism in the late 60s in NYC during the riots. Having seen that slop up close and personal, Bush & Clinton, scumbags both, are a better option for this white nationalist. One man's opinion, and as I say, do as you please regarding the hot soup we're in. You're a free man even at this late stage of the game.
If Obama were a true black nationalist, he'd have more blacks in his cabinet. He would be pulling out of the wars in the middle east. He'd be appointing blacks to the supreme court. It's important to characterize our situation accurately.
You mean that South Bronx 'wise Latina' recently appointed to the SC isn't hand in hand with their agenda? Please. Your lack of Ghetto knowledge is disturbing. And one doesn't have to be black to be part of the black nationalist movement; I give you Fr. Pflager, Ayres and all the scum associated with the "social justice" movement. Just call them White Guilters, they know who they are.
I don't think that the wise Latina is worse than the white males Bush and Reagan appointed.
Ah....you can't be serious........
I am serious. WASPs gave this country away. It's done.
This affirmative action hire will strip your gun rights w/o blinking an eye. Give the Witch Doctor one more placement, and you'll see for yourself. That's what's driving gun sales. We aren't as dopey as some think.
It's too late. She's already been robed.
Yeah, I actually know that. This dark POS will have another three years to place hard, left wing radicals on the bench should the occasion arise. If you see no distinction between the radical, Che-loving left, and say a Justice Thomas, then there isn't much point in continuing this conversation. No offense intended.
Same old crap - the Jewish doing divide and conquer politics. Gang up on white males and the Jews will deliver to you government riches!
Well it is getting late, as in tonight. But I'll say that most of the damage has been done already. We've been in free fall. This is a new country. Welcome to the results of the past 200 years.
They do. In my anecdotal experience.
It's not socialism if it's the white man's money.
Not important. FOX News tells them Palin's one of them, and they believe it. THAT is why she's more dangerous. Every non-white believes it too. That's why she's great.
It's not socialism if it's the white man's money.
you gots to wonder how many hispanics realize the pope is muzzled because the boston globe ---a subsidiary of the new york times--- still has a couple vaults full of priestly sex abuse stories.
It's enough.
It's not socialism if it's the white man's money.
I wouldn't trade this time in our history for anything. I know exactly how I'll behave when the SHTF. Good luck to you and whatever it is you're planning to do.
it's no coincidence that those sex abuse scandals surfaced right after the pope started mouthing off about the immorality of the neocon PNAC project in iraq.
We've seen these waves of enthusiasm before. Take what happened with Ron Paul and multiply it by 20 times in terms of numbers, dollars, and voter savvy and I'll be interested. Right now, people are excited about health care, taxes, and the so-called banker bailouts. They're still pretty clueless. They're still receptive to media manipulation. This is going nowhere in a big hurry. People haven't figured out just how bad off they really are yet.
and they havent figured it out because they're fed a steady diet of garbage media, as per the neocon philosophy of goverment.
I don't think the S will ever HTF, no more than it is already. That's the way history works, in my view. It happens in small steps, which together make large changes. Some of them are sudden. Just think back to 9/11. That was sudden. What did you do? You watched it on TV probably. I keep saying that we have to change as a people. We can't do this any other way. It may sound silly, but we have to become the liberated people we want to be. There's no big event yet to happen that will make us do that.
Why are you different? You've been fed the same thing, right? They have to be different in some way, too. The GIGO business will not change until the consumers demand otherwise.
so the israeli samson option is nothing but a vaudeville routine. good enough
i've been programmed differently, havent i?
Your historical view strays significantly with reality.
so how many network executives will we have to shoot to persuade those remaining to tell the truth?
I think she'll help with that.
It's not socialism if it's the white man's money.
We're not a people yet. She'll help with that. Small steps? Why, yes! :)
It's not socialism if it's the white man's money.
Why would that help if people don't care about the quality of the information they're getting? If they don't care, they aren't listening carefully anyway. You don't seem to understand that the people are the ones who have to protect their own freedom. We have failed to do that, starting with how we listen to media, how we educate our children, and so forth. GIGO happens when people don't reject lies.
She's working on the other team.
Suppose you're right. So what?
It's not socialism if it's the white man's money.
All we need is for the majority of legal Americans to realize that their votes don't matter. As soon as that happens, change will begin. I don't know how it will begin, but it will. Convincing people that the tea parties or that Palin are "real" isn't helping us to get there.
Name one sudden change you've experienced. You're not going to get your SHTF moment. The PTB know better than to give you one.
and you refuse to acknowledge that liars are so firmly entrenched in powerful media positions that there's no way to dislodge them, short of shooting them. and they know that, and they're preparing themselves to deal with it. why do you think obama was elected rather than hillary? ...surely not to forestall more black riots. in the meantime, the only thing the media people have to worry about is stacking up enough loot to buy refuge someplace once the shit finally hits the fan, as it surely will. do you think that american power will last forever, or at least long enough to protect israel from the idiocy of its founding? or are you admitting that israeli leadership is nothing but a gang of thuggish looters, who will abandon israel once the american tit goes dry?
You refuse to acknowledge how they got there in the first place. It's called a free market. When you get this so-called freedom back, what will stop it from happening all over again?
what's free about a market when the sellers buy and sell the government that supposedly regulates them?
I'm talking about how we got here. It'll happen again if we simply change the government (or the media, or anything else) and don't change the way we think. We thought certain ways in the 18th and 19th centuries, which is how we got to where we are today. We have to change, or else we will repeat the cycle again and again.
and for one more time of asking: do you think that israel's use of its samson option would qualify as "TSHTF"? or do you think america will be able to protect israel forever? because it seems to me there might be quite a bit of shit flying if israel exterminates a few million people as it goes under... ...not to mention how badly jews' status as "most holocausted" would be jeopardized. not good.
how are people supposed to find the truth when it takes so much effort to find the truth? they have other things to do, mainly survive, and they dont have time to spend years sifting through the dreck to find a nugget once in a while.
The Samson option is a very unlikely scenario. It's good for them to help terrorize the world, but in doing so, they will maintain the status quo.
how long do you suppose the status quo can be maintained as the looting of israel's protector progresses?
What law states that the "people shall be given the truth?" If they don't ask for it, then they're going to get similar things as what we're getting. That can and will repeat if we do not change. I think necessity is the mother of invention, though.
anybody with half a brain can see that israel was a fatally bad idea from the very beginning, and the samson option, once america can no longer protect israel, will be the crowning achievement of zionism. meanwhile, as long as the system lasts, supposed support for israel provides supposed zionists with an exemption from criticism.
ah. taking refuge in legalities. what if people ask for truth, but are given more garbage that's sold as truth? faux news, the "most trusted network". and we dont even know if the polls that found faux news "most trusted" are on the level, do we?
I'm an America firster. Now convince 300 million others.
meanwhile, as long as the system lasts, supposed support for israel provides supposed zionists with an exemption from criticism. I'm tired of paying for UN sanctions. Is there a way to tell the US government that I refuse further abuse?
"The most terrifying words in the English language are, I'm from the government and I am here to help." -- Ronald Reagan, circa 1976
I'm not. I'm saying that no universal law dictates that the outcomes we wish will indeed occur. Americans will have to want to change in order for that to happen. So far I'm not seeing this.
and you're blaming 300 million victims, as they're victimized by lies, in accordance with neocon theories of government. too bad you're sounding so much like hitler's description of jewish debate tactics.
Total and complete anarchy in April 1968 when MLK was killed. You were probably in diapers, right? Ya' think things will get stinky if something like that happens again? Street smarts you haven't.
Who cares about legal Americans? Whites need to consider well that they are white. I say Palin helps them get there. Voting might actually matter then. And if it still doesn't, then they'll say "to hell with it!"
It's not socialism if it's the white man's money.
Has it ever occurred to you that the majority of Americans may be getting some sort of payback for some terrible series of mistakes that were made before they were born? I know you may not like to hear that.
The anarchy that terrified you was used to convince others to enforce the Civil Rights act. Those came because of similar threats before. I'm probably more aware of these things than you realize. Fear is a double-edged sword.
yup. all the time. isnt it ironic that zionists constantly trot out an argument that boils down to this: if europeans were entitled to exterminate the natives of north america, europeans are also entitled to exterminate the natives of palestine. two wrongs make a right, three wrongs make an even more ironclad right, and might makes the final right. good deal.
Jethro, I know you are want to be one of the brightest bulbs in the sky because of your persistent Y2K threads but don't forget you have friends. And don't pick on our friends. Deasy just may slam you a new enchilada..... hard as it may be to believe.
"The most terrifying words in the English language are, I'm from the government and I am here to help." -- Ronald Reagan, circa 1976
and as time marches on, it's gonna be interesting to see at what point ashkenazi supremacists, already in control of most of america, become overt enough with their racism to start exterminating whites who have an inferior pedigree, isnt it?
These things are very difficult to disentangle.
I see you blew right past the historical SHTF event you asked for - the one I supplied - and ascribed an imagined cause. Nice deflection :)
These things are very difficult to disentangle. ah. so now you're overtly trying to justify "might makes right" good enough. if i hired thugs mighty enough to throw you out in the street, i'd then be entitled to move into your place. if you resisted, i'd be entitled to bring out the heavy stuff and wipe you out, and i'd be entitled to wipe you out because i had more firepower. very good.
It wasn't really a SHTF moment. And think about it: if nothing happened then, what would you expect today after 30 years of tolerance training?
Didn't say that. What I did say is that people have an opportunity to improve their situation. They may not. Present patterns suggest that they won't.
ah. so now you're trying to say the situation's so complicated that... what? ...shooting zionist television executives wouldnt motivate them to tell the truth about israel, PNAC, 9/11 and the war on terror?
You had to be there, which you weren't because you are too young. The nation in the late 60s was on the brink of revolution, at least from my perspective on street level. Please don't dismiss something you know nothing about.
when the government and media are owned by people who believe in "might makes right", then what? do we have to dig around in some holy book to find justification to use might ourselves, shoot a few network execs, and try to reestablish a truthful government? are we entitled to defend ourselves from lies that are hindering our chances of dealing with peak oil and global warming? or is our right to self-defense invalidated by overwhelming might? at what point do resources get so scarce that supremacist ashkenazis start exterminating inferior whites?
It didn't happen then, so why would it happen now? The control over the people is even more complete today than it was then. Just look at how 4um, even 4um, got in a tizzy about the flu.
It didn't happen because you say it didn't happen? Is that your position?
I'm saying that reaction to the riots was controlled. The media told us how to react, and that's what most people did.
whose fault was that? it was the peoples' fault, obviously, because they havent shot enough tv execs... is that what you're saying?
You keep saying that. I keep saying that the people aren't thinking for themselves. If you want to take over the media and continue to tell the thoughtless people what to do, how does that help them?
My pathetically naive friend. A riot, by definition, is uncontrolled. The corner of Fulton & Nostrand Ave in the heart of Bed Sty was really, really uncontrolled. But i give up trying to break through. The System will have you back under the bed shortly.
there's no such thing as truth... and so it's impossible for the media to tell the truth... wonderful. for instance, it isnt true that the PNAC people said they needed a new pearl harbor in september of 2000, just before they were installed into positions from which they could make their new pearl harbor happen. i guess you're subscribing to the neocon theory that they're an empire now, and when they act, they create their own reality, presumably to include truth.
JT, we're talking about different things. You're saying the SHTF when the riots broke out, and I'm saying that the media and government leadership kept the situation from expanding from there. See the difference? This pattern will repeat itself.
Results 1 - 10 of about 11,300,000 for PNAC "new pearl harbor".
I'm saying that the American people can change that just by asking a few more questions than they've become accustomed to asking. They have some motivations to do that, and they have new tools at their disposal for investigating the world. This could be a good outcome for all involved if they would look up from the Superbowl or American Idol and think. I'd really like to see that happen.
...and what if the mechanism that answers those questions is grounded in a philosophy of lying to the governed?
Barking at the moon, JT? Isn't it a bit late howling at the moon?
"The most terrifying words in the English language are, I'm from the government and I am here to help." -- Ronald Reagan, circa 1976
google corrected the glitch in their search algorithms that returned 11 million hits for PNAC "new pearl harbor"... good deal... i was wondering how long those 11 million returns would last after that search was posted someplace... that particular search has been returning 13 million hits for a couple months now, that i know of... anyhow, those 11 million returns lasted a day after the above search was posted, and now we see this: Results 1 - 10 of about 1,510,000 for PNAC "new pearl harbor" ...which is still a sign of progress, since the search originally returned only a couple tens of thousands of hits.
that search... PNAC "new pearl harbor"... with the quotation marks ---which should limit the search to returning that phrase "new pearl harbor" intact--- was returning 13 million hits... the search... PNAC new pearl harbor... without quotes was returning a much lower number of hits, so something appeared to be fishy... the returns were reversed from what they should have been, quotes vs no quotes. but the search is still screwed up: with quotes, the search is now returning a million and a half hits, while the search without quotes is returning 48,900 hits. lord knows what the truth is.
i guess the only truth that matters is this: the PNAC neocons said they needed a new pearl harbor, and shortly afterward were installed, by an election recount in a state governed by a PNAC signatory, into positions from which they could make their new pearl harbor happen. then their new pearl harbor happened.
Every riot I've even been involved in, or seen, self extinguished after all the color TVs, food, etc had been stolen from the stores, which were then set on fire. The media and government had nothing to do with stopping these events. They begin spontaneously and end predictably.
#2. To: Deasy (#1)
#3. To: Jethro Tull (#2)
#4. To: Deasy (#3)
#5. To: Jethro Tull (#4)
#6. To: Deasy (#5)
#7. To: Jethro Tull (#6)
#8. To: Deasy (#7)
There's no difference between them.
#9. To: Jethro Tull (#8)
#10. To: Deasy (#9)
#11. To: Jethro Tull (#10)
There's a fight on for control, perhaps you'd like to get involved. It sure beats waiting for RP to do the right thing.
#12. To: Deasy (#11)
#13. To: Jethro Tull (#12)
#14. To: Deasy (#13)
I don't go to Tea Party rallies.
#15. To: Jethro Tull (#14)
#16. To: Jethro Tull (#14)
#17. To: Deasy (#15)
(Edited)
#18. To: Deasy (#16)
#19. To: Jethro Tull (#17)
#20. To: Deasy (#19)
#21. To: Jethro Tull (#18)
#22. To: Deasy (#21)
#23. To: Jethro Tull (#20)
(AP) The National Tea Party Convention has lost two of its major speakers.
#24. To: Deasy (#21)
#25. To: Deasy (#23)
#26. To: Jethro Tull (#22)
*Anything* and *anyone* is better than Obama, and that's my strategy. And yours is?
#27. To: Jethro Tull (#25)
Wouldn't it be great if the independent faction came out on top and actually did what RP never even tried to do?
#28. To: Deasy (#26)
Obama is just another brick in the wall. I don't take him any more seriously than I did Bush or Clinton.
#29. To: Jethro Tull (#28)
#30. To: Deasy (#29)
He'd be appointing blacks to the supreme court
#31. To: Jethro Tull (#30)
#32. To: Deasy (#31)
I don't think that the wise Latina is worse than the white males Bush and Reagan appointed.
#33. To: Jethro Tull (#32)
#34. To: Deasy (#33)
#35. To: Jethro Tull (#34)
#36. To: Deasy (#33)
In an interview with Forbes Magazine Saban was asked how he thinks the Democratic Party could get back into the White House in 2008. Saban answered three times: "Vote for Hillary Clinton."
"a one-issue guy and my issue is Israel"
....may we assume that hillary's "best vision for the future of america" means that she is a one-issue gal, and that issue is israel?
#37. To: Deasy (#35)
It's too late. She's already been robed.
#38. To: Jethro Tull (#0)
Immigration Debate Prompts Growing Jewish-Latino Ties
#39. To: Jethro Tull (#37)
If you see no distinction between the radical, Che-loving left, and say a Justice Thomas, then there isn't much point in continuing this conversation. No offense intended.
#40. To: Deasy (#1)
Anglos haven't caught on to the game yet, why would the Hispanics?
#41. To: Deasy (#7)
They both favor amnesty. They both coddle the bankers.
#42. To: Prefrontal Vortex (#40)
They do.
#43. To: Deasy (#15)
You're enthused. That's the only result I can see.
#44. To: Deasy (#39)
Well it is getting late, as in tonight. But I'll say that most of the damage has been done already. We've been in free fall. This is a new country. Welcome to the results of the past 200 years
#45. To: Prefrontal Vortex (#43)
#46. To: Prefrontal Vortex (#43)
#47. To: Deasy (#46)
(Edited)
People haven't figured out just how bad off they really are yet.
#48. To: Jethro Tull (#44)
I know exactly how I'll behave when the SHTF. Good luck to you and whatever it is you're planning to do.
#49. To: groundresonance (#47)
and they havent figured it out because they're fed a steady diet of garbage media, as per the neocon philosophy of goverment.
#50. To: Deasy (#48)
I don't think the S will ever HTF, no more than it is already.
#51. To: Deasy (#49)
Why are you different?
#52. To: Deasy (#48)
That's the way history works, in my view.
#53. To: Deasy (#49)
(Edited)
The GIGO business will not change until the consumers demand otherwise.
#54. To: Deasy (#46)
People haven't figured out just how bad off they really are yet.
#55. To: Deasy (#48)
I keep saying that we have to change as a people.
#56. To: groundresonance (#53)
#57. To: Prefrontal Vortex (#55)
She'll help with that.
#58. To: Deasy (#57)
#59. To: Prefrontal Vortex (#58)
#60. To: Jethro Tull (#52)
Your historical view strays significantly with reality.
#61. To: Deasy (#56)
(Edited)
You don't seem to understand that the people are the ones who have to protect their own freedom.
#62. To: groundresonance (#61)
#63. To: Deasy (#62)
free market.
#64. To: groundresonance (#63)
#65. To: Deasy (#62)
#66. To: Deasy (#64)
(Edited)
We have to change
#67. To: groundresonance (#65)
#68. To: Deasy (#67)
maintain the status quo
#69. To: groundresonance, Prefrontal Vortex (#66)
how are people supposed to find the truth when it takes so much effort to find the truth?
#70. To: Deasy (#67)
#71. To: Deasy (#69)
(Edited)
What law states that the "people shall be given the truth?"
#72. To: groundresonance (#70)
#73. To: groundresonance (#70)
anybody with half a brain can see that israel was a fatally bad idea from the very beginning, and the samson option, once america can no longer protect israel, will be the crowning achievement of zionism.
#74. To: groundresonance (#71)
taking refuge in legalities.
#75. To: Deasy (#72)
I'm an America firster. Now convince 300 million others.
#76. To: Deasy (#60)
Name one sudden change you've experienced.
#77. To: Deasy (#59)
All we need is for the majority of legal Americans to realize that their votes don't matter.
#78. To: groundresonance (#75)
#79. To: Jethro Tull (#76)
Total and complete anarchy in April 1968 when MLK was killed.
#80. To: Deasy (#78)
(Edited)
Has it ever occurred to you that the majority of Americans may be getting some sort of payback for some terrible series of mistakes that were made before they were born?
#81. To: Jethro Tull, Deasy (#76)
Street smarts you [Deasy]haven't.
#82. To: Deasy (#78)
(Edited)
#83. To: groundresonance (#80)
and might makes the final right.
#84. To: Deasy (#79)
The anarchy that terrified you was used to convince others to enforce the Civil Rights act.
#85. To: Deasy (#83)
"might makes the final right."
#86. To: Jethro Tull (#84)
I see you blew right past the historical SHTF event you asked for - the one I supplied - and ascribed an imagined cause. Nice deflection :)
#87. To: groundresonance (#85)
so now you're overtly trying to justify "might makes right"
#88. To: Deasy (#87)
people have an opportunity to improve their situation. They may not
#89. To: Deasy (#86)
(Edited)
It wasn't really a SHTF moment.
#90. To: Deasy (#87)
(Edited)
#91. To: Jethro Tull (#89)
#92. To: Deasy (#91)
It didn't happen then, so why would it happen now?
#93. To: Jethro Tull (#92)
#94. To: Deasy (#93)
(Edited)
The media told us how to react, and that's what most people did.
#95. To: groundresonance (#94)
#96. To: Deasy (#93)
I'm saying that reaction to the riots was controlled
#97. To: Deasy (#95)
(Edited)
If you want to take over the media and continue to tell the thoughtless people what to do, how does that help them?
#98. To: Jethro Tull (#96)
#99. To: Deasy (#98)
#100. To: groundresonance (#97)
i guess you're subscribing to the neocon theory that they're an empire now, and when they act, they create their own reality, presumably to include truth.
#101. To: Deasy (#100)
the American people can change that just by asking a few more questions than they've become accustomed to asking
#102. To: Jethro Tull (#96)
Jethro Tull: My pathetically naive friend [Deasy]. A riot, by definition, is uncontrolled. The corner of Fulton & Nostrand Ave in the heart of Bed Sty was really, really uncontrolled. But i give up trying to break through. The System will have you back under the bed shortly.
#103. To: All (#101)
(Edited)
Results 1 - 10 of about 11,300,000 for PNAC "new pearl harbor".
#104. To: All (#103)
(Edited)
#105. To: All (#104)
#106. To: Deasy (#98)
I'm saying that the media and government leadership kept the situation from expanding from there.
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