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Title: Terry Pratchett ready to be test case for suicide law
Source:
BBC
URL Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8490062.stm
Published: Jan 31, 2010
Author: staff
Post Date: 2010-01-31 19:59:07 by Ferret Mike
Keywords: None
Views: 1179
Comments: 72
Sir Terry Pratchett has said he's ready to be a test case for assisted suicide "tribunals" which could give people legal permission to end their lives. The author, who has Alzheimer's, says he wants a tribunal set up to help those with incurable diseases end their lives with help from doctors. A poll for BBC One's Panorama suggests most people support assisted suicide for someone who is terminally ill. Sir Terry is due to set out his ideas in Monday's Richard Dimbleby lecture. God's waiting room In the keynote lecture, Shaking Hands With Death, the best-selling author will say that the "time is really coming" for assisted death to be legalised. His comments follow the acquittal last week of Kay Gilderdale, of Stonegate, East Sussex, who was cleared of attempted murder after helping her daughter, Lynn, to commit suicide. Ms Gilderdale admitted aiding and abetting her 31-year-old daughter, who had the chronic fatigue syndrome ME, to take her own life and was given a 12-month conditional discharge. Lynn was found dead at their home on 4 December 2008. Ms Gilderdale is to appear in Monday's BBC One Panorama programme. A survey for the programme found 73% of those asked believed that friends or relatives should be able to assist in the suicide of a loved one who is terminally ill. Sir Terry says he would like to see measures put in place to ensure that anyone seeking to commit suicide was of sound mind and not being influenced by others. A legal expert in family affairs and a doctor familiar with long-term illness would also be part of his proposed tribunals. "It seems sensible to me that we should look to the medical profession that over the centuries has helped us to live longer and healthier lives to help us die peacefully among our loved ones in our own home without a long stay in God's waiting room," he will say. More than 1,000 people were surveyed for the poll carried out for Panorama. While there was clear support for assisted suicide for someone who is terminally ill, if - as in the case of Ms Gilderdale's daughter - the illness is not terminal, support for assisted suicide falls to 48%. Responding to the Panorama poll, Director of Care Not Killing, Dr Peter Saunders, said: "To argue that if you are terminally ill you deserve less protection from the law than do the rest of us is highly discriminatory as well as dangerous. "Many cases of abuse involving elderly, sick and disabled people occur in the context of so-called 'loving families' and the blanket prohibition of intentional killing or assisting suicide is there to ensure that vulnerable people are not put at risk." 'At peace' Lynn was bedridden by the age of 15, and was admitted to hospital more than 50 times with a succession of serious illnesses over the next 16 years. Ms Gilderdale told the programme: "I know I did the right thing for Lynn. She's free and at peace where she needed to be. Whatever the consequences, I would do it again." The survey was carried out earlier this month and the figures are broadly in line with previous surveys. Last year, the director of public prosecutions issued guidelines on when assisted suicide cases should be taken to court. But campaigners have said there still needs to be more clarity in the law. Panorama: I Helped My Daughter to Die is on BBC One on Monday 1 February at 2030 GMT.
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#1. To: Ferret Mike (#0)
No argument, and Amen. Our pets and animals are treated much better at this stage of their lives than are we and our loved ones.
deleted
The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
I know Oregon's assisted suicide law works exceedingly well and has had zero issues or controversies emanating from it. Those who have gotten the prescriptions to 'go to sleep' have been fewer in number with no friends or relatives objecting. The main strength of this law seems to be the peace it gives people by giving them an element of control over their exit. I support this sort of legal solution to giving control to avoid a painful, protracted and messy exit in more states then the two now making this legal.
Seeing what my parents endured in their mid to late eighties, I must concur. What is to be gained by day after day suffering and pain? The insurance companies, the drug cartels, and the nursing homes are the only ones that I know of, who benefit. Certainly not the patients. Or their families.
My Mom wanted to live pat 67, but in the middle of session three of chemotherapy, her doctor took her aside and said, "Beverly, just go home, please." It was just killing her faster, and the rest of us in the family concurred with him. It is never easy seeing a loved one die, but as we never get out of here alive, sometimes it is wise to accept what the creator is trying to tell you when the body is failing.
At least your mother had an honest doctor. Many, these days, would have kept bleeding her financially until the very end.
Yours are the only wise words on this thread to date. The article is evil and the posters comments are stupid or ignorant at best.
www.libertysflame.com
OK Stonie, you would have no problem telling a woman or a man to whom the creator has said, "You are coming home, and soon" who faces pain and a torturous decline in function and health eminently that "It's God's will you and your family suffer." But the rest of us who have seen the law work well, taking nobody merely for fear of the cost of care; and we are grateful for this law. There is a take home prescription and the patient choses her or his time and place to exit, and far fewer people have opted for this then anticipated. Some have gotten the drug, and then never taken it. The mere peace of mind that they knew they could control things if it was too much for them to take improved their quality and dignity of life. Death is a conversation with a higher power and going slightly sooner then if the euthanasia had not happened is merely a human being giving their input into an inevitable and eminent end. A woman or a man should have earned enough respect by the time their life ends to be trusted with the decision to go sooner. And I'm sure that she or he who created us is not going to be ab irritated and humorless jerk like they were a life time accountant over a,"yes, I hear you; I'm dying."then saying, "Hang on, wait up, I'm ready to go right now." The higher powers of humanity can handle such things and deal with them with more common sense and compassion then you give credit for Stone. Get a grip.
Amen.
Been there, done that. Mine was about the same age.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
deleted
The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
You must think that God is cruel and would put someone through more then they could endure. You must think man knows when the right time to die is and not God. I never heard Jesus advocating assisted suicide.
www.libertysflame.com
Why should someone that wants to kill themselves have to suffer miserably to do it? Since when did suicide become something that someone else had to do? Since the government decided to regulate the drugs that could enable oneself to have a peaceful, painless death.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976 The purpose of the legal system is to protect the elites from the wrath of those they plunder.- Elliott Jackalope "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat
What if they do not believe in your invisible sky beast? They should have to live by your religious standards? LOL! What makes you any different than the muslims you constantly bitch about who demand that others follow their religious rules?
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976 The purpose of the legal system is to protect the elites from the wrath of those they plunder.- Elliott Jackalope "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat
You don't listen very well. Oregon's law works exceedingly well. It was passed overwhelmingly in 1994, then the Catholic Church tied it up in courts until a second vote by the people freed the law to be used in 1997 by an even larger plurality; in fact, it won by landslide. There are many safeguards in the law. Nobody with depression can get the prescription. They have to ask verbally and in writing. They cannot be coached to do this. They have a waiting period of three weeks. They have to only have six months to live. And much more, including the fact many who get the prescription don't use it. They just like having the control on their destiny to that degree if things get too bad. As I said, death at the stage of the short period before one exits life is a conversation with their higher power. I very much do believe human beings have the ability and common sense to very their exit on the short term, and the state and religions should not interfere with this. The law is not going away, and more places will be passing their version of Oregon's cutting edge law. And this is something long overdue to happen.
Thanks for this expansion and clarification of OR's laws. They sound reasonable to me.
What I get the biggest kick out of is how pissed off people get because someone else is so stupid that they believe differently. And this is true in both directions. Christians think the self inflated intellectual outsmarts himself while the self inflated intellectual thinks the Christian outdumbs himself.
Whoever would return government to the "will of the people" must first return the United States to the use of CONSTITUTIONAL COINAGE as a medium of exchange and through it return the Constitution as law in the United States.
deleted
The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
And so the saga of the dog called humanity chasing it's collective tail keeps on going on, to the entertainment of the cat which is humanity's grace of being able to laugh at itself and not take itself too seriously. Very amusing observation you have there. Enjoyed it.
So it's OK for them to kill themselves with cyanide but not with regulated drugs? I disagree. Scientists and doctors have determined what mix of pharmaceutical cocktails kills the most humanely. The government shouldn't be regulating these drugs (or any other for that matter) in the first place, unless it is to ensure quality of product, patent enforcement or protection against fraud. From what I've read, the only reason the doctors are involved in the process is because you cannot get the drugs without a prescription. Take away that need and you take away the reason for the government or doctors to be involved. A quick Google search to find out how it's done, a trip to the drug store and wallah, it's a done deal.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976 The purpose of the legal system is to protect the elites from the wrath of those they plunder.- Elliott Jackalope "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat
The Oregon law is smart to avoid second party involvement in the actual death. Intravenous applications of drugs, carbon monoxide and other painless options are just ammunition useful to drum up emotional reaction to deaths with dignity. When someone goes through the process to do this and takes the barbiturates themselves, there is no gray area to argue. The person was dying, did not feel there to be quality, dignity or tolerable quality to the tag end of life to hang around. People can argue their God/Goddess/Allah or whomever would be irreconcilably pissed and punitive minded over the usurping of a celestial prerogative all they want. But who's life is it anyway? How dare anyone disrespect the needs and wishes of another so much they would force them to bear a messy, painful and undignified death that satisfies no one but the control freaks among us.
Christians think the self inflated intellectual outsmarts himself while the self inflated intellectual thinks the Christian outdumbs himself. I do not consider myself an intellectual nor self-inflated. I also do not get pissed off because someone believes in Christianity, or any other invisible sky being. If that helps them get through the day then more power to them. What I do object to though is when people use their religious beliefs to dictate how others should live and/or die (or not die in this case). I find it abhorrent that a human being should suffer just because the man-God of a certain group of people (Christians) suffered and therefore believe that suffering is "good for you." I find this to be as abhorrent as a group of Muslims stoning a woman who did not wear a burka in public. I see no moral difference between the two.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976 The purpose of the legal system is to protect the elites from the wrath of those they plunder.- Elliott Jackalope "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat
have any of you seen the film Whose Life Is It Anyway?? In interviews, Richard Dreyfuss often refers to Whose Life Is It Anyway? as having been made at the nadir of his substance-abuse problem in the 1980s. Yet it's not too bad. Based on the hit Broadway play, it's a debate about the ethics of euthanasia and one person's right to choose whether to live or die. Dreyfuss plays a sculptor who, after a car accident, is left a paraplegic. Appalled at the prospect of a life in which he has no control of anything, he pleads with hospital authorities to help him die. When they refuse, he takes them to court. Dreyfuss brings great passion to a role in which he can't even use his body; the humor is often pitch-black, but it works, both as a script and as a cinematically opened-up version of a play. it's extraordinary. wonderful acting and the story takes you through a gamut of emotions. it's one of my favorite films of all time. i highly recommend it.
No, I've never seen it. Thanks for the info. If I ever see it on TV I'll be sure to record it on the DVR.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976 The purpose of the legal system is to protect the elites from the wrath of those they plunder.- Elliott Jackalope "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat
Then all the more reason not to let them suicide out to hell. God himself said that if you don't believe in him that you are a fool. Because a fool doesn't believe in God doesn't make it true. Fools used to say the earth was flat. If only they had read the Bible they would have known better.
www.libertysflame.com
Are you really asking the difference between the Bible and the Koran? The Bible is perfect and full of love. The Koran is flawed, evil and written by a pedophile. That is the short version. Also the muslims try to force people to convert and kill them if they don't. The Bible says to shake the dust off your feed and leave them alone if they don't want to hear about Gods true word. Night and day.
www.libertysflame.com
No and neither do you. :)
www.libertysflame.com
No, I am not asking that at all. I have no interest in either fairytale. There are much better written and more exciting fantasy books on the market if I choose to read one. The Bible is perfect and full of love. The Koran is flawed, evil and written by a pedophile. That is the short version. If the Bible were perfect there wouldn't be 38000+ denominations with different interpretations of it, all claiming they have "the truth." However, that is beside the point. Your belief in the veracity of your book of fairy tails does not give you the right to use the force of government to ensure others suffer a miserable and painful death, just like the muslim's belief in the veracity of their book of fairy tails does not give them the right to cut off the head's of "infidel's." The only difference between your belief and theirs is the length to which you will go to enforce your tyranny. The muslim's will murder an offender while you, out of "love" of course, would only imprison the offender. The Bible says to shake the dust off your feed and leave them alone if they don't want to hear about Gods true word. Then leave those who are suffering and dying a miserable and painful death alone. Shake the dust off your feet and mind your own damned business.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976 The purpose of the legal system is to protect the elites from the wrath of those they plunder.- Elliott Jackalope "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat
God himself said that if you don't believe in him that you are a fool. Because a fool doesn't believe in God doesn't make it true. Fools used to say the earth was flat. If only they had read the Bible they would have known better. You are no different than your Muslim buddies. They are just as sure as you are that THEY are right and you are the fool. Their God tells them it's OK to cut the head off of non-believers, your God tells you it's OK to imprison them. The only difference is the degree of tyranny.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976 The purpose of the legal system is to protect the elites from the wrath of those they plunder.- Elliott Jackalope "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat
You seem to be short sighted. You don't see the big picture. My reasons are rooted in the Bible and COMMON SENSE. Mark my words. The right to die will become the duty to die.
www.libertysflame.com
That is a completely different argument that has nothing to do with your bible.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976 The purpose of the legal system is to protect the elites from the wrath of those they plunder.- Elliott Jackalope "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat
I find it abhorrent that a human being should suffer just because the man-God of a certain group of people (Christians) suffered and therefore believe that suffering is "good for you." My response wasn't aimed at you or anyone in particular but more of a general observation. Religious beliefs imposed upon others without invitation amounts to coercion or at a minmum harrassment. I think we can agree on this sentiment. When governments (through agents or agencies) use religion to promote an agenda the religious concepts inserted or alluded to are generally a red herring foisted upon both the believer and non-believer by someone or some group that couldn't care less about the religious implications. I often recognize that the entity injecting religion or religious dogma into the dialogue is actually dividing to conquer. All religious points of view should be open to debate amongst willing debaters in a private setting. Even if the belief that you find abhorent is actually a commonly held belief by a sect or group, that shouldn't give rise to an effectual application to you. Many religions have a variey of belief systems usually generated by someone that has taken an authoritative position within a group. Then, it seems to me that the party in authority has a tendancy to abuse both his/her authority and the religious dogma purposed to further some agenda. I guess my point is that zealots are a pain in the ass everytime they direct their voices to an unwilling audience, especially when they're recent converts to some orthodoxy and unlearned. I suppose I could be accused of some zealotry myself in the past, but that was before I realized just how little I know and thought it more important to prove something than to engage myself in learning so as to have a more personal (and complete) understanding. People that are inclined to "show others the way" should do so by example and not by imposition of their will using God as a weapon. EDIT: I felt that I had to add this: It seems to me that many people involved in Christianity "talk" about the importance of faith in their belief system without demonstrating it by practical application in their own lives. Additionally, these "believers" deny the power of their omnipotent God by imposing theirselves upon others rather than leave any of the conversion process to God.
Whoever would return government to the "will of the people" must first return the United States to the use of CONSTITUTIONAL COINAGE as a medium of exchange and through it return the Constitution as law in the United States.
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
Socialists are gang bangers. They are pussies until they have government backing and then they become mass assassins. With respect to your comment above ... it's perfect. In a diverse and "free" society we should leave the decision of life or death to God or the nearest relative and physician ... never should the government have authority to make such a determination. That being said, it's a difficult and often touchy subject without simple solutions. The world is trending towards State control of life and death decision making, which I abhor. Governments abuse any and all authority relinquished by the people.
Whoever would return government to the "will of the people" must first return the United States to the use of CONSTITUTIONAL COINAGE as a medium of exchange and through it return the Constitution as law in the United States.
Here is a seed for you that may save your life and soul someday. Revelation chapter 13. When everyone has to take a mark to buy or sell let it trigger a memory of this thread in your mind. Let you remember that it was foretold in the word of God. That is my goodwill towards you.
www.libertysflame.com
Not really. Gods word teaches values. Your position is kind of like stealing shouldn't be a crime because that is a religious matter found in the Bible.
www.libertysflame.com
Thou shall not murder. I guess you have a problem with that. Because people with religious views convinced almost everyone that it was wrong. You aren't making much sense.
www.libertysflame.com
So Jesus was a fairy tale. lol. Even the dumbest historians recognize he was real.
www.libertysflame.com
Comments (41 - 72) not displayed.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestMs Gilderdale told the programme: "I know I did the right thing for Lynn. She's free and at peace where she needed to be. Whatever the consequences, I would do it again."
#2. To: Ferret Mike (#0)
#3. To: Lod (#1)
#4. To: Ferret Mike, all (#3)
I support this sort of legal solution to giving control to avoid a painful, protracted and messy exit in more states then the two now making this legal.
#5. To: Lod (#4)
#6. To: Ferret Mike (#5)
#7. To: Eric Stratton (#2)
One step away from governmental "tribunals" to decide whom the FedGov gets to exterminate.
#8. To: A K A Stone (#7)
#9. To: Ferret Mike (#8)
#10. To: Ferret Mike (#5)
#11. To: Lod, All (#4)
#12. To: Ferret Mike, lod (#8)
OK Stonie, you would have no problem telling a woman or a man to whom the creator has said, "You are coming home, and soon" who faces pain and a torturous decline in function and health eminently that "It's God's will you and your family suffer."OK Stonie, you would have no problem telling a woman or a man to whom the creator has said, "You are coming home, and soon" who faces pain and a torturous decline in function and health eminently that "It's God's will you and your family suffer."
#13. To: Eric Stratton (#11)
Cyanide is not unattainable.
#14. To: A K A Stone (#12)
(Edited)
You must think that God is cruel and would put someone through more then they could endure. You must think man knows when the right time to die is and not God. I never heard Jesus advocating assisted suicide.
#15. To: A K A Stone (#12)
#16. To: Ferret Mike (#15)
#17. To: F.A. Hayek Fan (#14)
#18. To: F.A. Hayek Fan (#13)
#19. To: noone222 (#17)
"Christians think the self inflated intellectual outsmarts himself while the self inflated intellectual thinks the Christian outdumbs himself."
#20. To: Eric Stratton (#18)
Cyanide isn't suffering.
#21. To: Eric Stratton (#18)
"Cyanide isn't suffering."
#22. To: noone222 (#17)
What I get the biggest kick out of is how pissed off people get because someone else is so stupid that they believe differently. And this is true in both directions.
#23. To: F.A. Hayek Fan, noone222, Eric Stratton, Ferret Mike, Lod, All (#20)
#24. To: christine (#23)
#25. To: F.A. Hayek Fan (#14)
What if they do not believe in your invisible sky beast?
#26. To: F.A. Hayek Fan (#14)
What makes you any different than the muslims you constantly bitch about who demand that others follow their religious rules?
#27. To: Ferret Mike (#15)
You don't listen very well.
#28. To: A K A Stone (#26)
Are you really asking the difference between the Bible and the Koran?
#29. To: A K A Stone (#25)
(Edited)
Then all the more reason not to let them suicide out to hell.
#30. To: F.A. Hayek Fan (#28)
#31. To: A K A Stone (#30)
Mark my words. The right to die will become the duty to die.
#32. To: F.A. Hayek Fan (#22)
(Edited)
What I do object to though is when people use their religious beliefs to dictate how others should live and/or die (or not die in this case).
#33. To: Ferret Mike (#21)
#34. To: F.A. Hayek Fan, All (#20)
#35. To: F.A. Hayek Fan (#20)
#36. To: Eric Stratton (#33)
That's fine, just keep the Government the fuck out of it.
#37. To: F.A. Hayek Fan (#29)
You are no different than your Muslim buddies.
#38. To: F.A. Hayek Fan (#31)
That is a completely different argument that has nothing to do with your bible.
#39. To: F.A. Hayek Fan (#22)
What I do object to though is when people use their religious beliefs to dictate how others should live
#40. To: F.A. Hayek Fan (#28)
No, I am not asking that at all. I have no interest in either fairytale.
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